Does Smash Ultimate's Meta Need To Change?

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  • Опубликовано: 23 дек 2024

Комментарии • 403

  • @eazyfreezie
    @eazyfreezie  10 месяцев назад +88

    Hey, it has been awhile! To those who have stuck around waiting for the next video, thank you for doing so. Competitive Smash 2023 video will be coming soon (well, in like a month or 2), so stay tuned!

    • @Ken-wf8fo
      @Ken-wf8fo 10 месяцев назад

      Can't wait, keep it up kiing

    • @ggnicklu
      @ggnicklu 10 месяцев назад +1

      THE GOAT IS BACK. It was worth the wait

    • @billwoods7578
      @billwoods7578 10 месяцев назад

      Nobody ever thought melee was dying. Nice cope though.

  • @sachitechless
    @sachitechless 10 месяцев назад +142

    I feel like the other issue is just how often any attempt at change is pushed back against by top players and immediately reverted because TOs are afraid people are gonna dodge their events in the future.

    • @CipherKnighto
      @CipherKnighto 10 месяцев назад +10

      Absolutely

    • @sham_noway
      @sham_noway 7 месяцев назад +4

      hate when this happens lmfaoo,, its why Regen is unbanning steve bc they want to try and get acola to come (even tho the majority of us were way happier with steve banned at last years regen)
      all because they wanna try and get top players to boost the events lumirank points

    • @Myst1c_OW
      @Myst1c_OW 2 месяца назад +1

      @@sham_noway yeah its sad that they dont care about everyone having fun

  • @yourlocalraccoondealer8611
    @yourlocalraccoondealer8611 10 месяцев назад +77

    I like that this video wasn't crying over DLC characters or top tiers but actually just suggesting realistic ideas for change in the competitive scene. Great video.

  • @HexterXD
    @HexterXD 10 месяцев назад +43

    I am still super bummed out that Mewtwo was nigh abandoned in this game. I know his tail is a weakness, but man he is fun to play as.

    • @jlockzgaming2538
      @jlockzgaming2538 6 месяцев назад +1

      Then you can go a show people how good he is the pro’s became pro’s because they practice so show them

    • @kitsune6363
      @kitsune6363 5 месяцев назад

      All they had to do was undo that Disable nerf they gave him in updates

  • @MrBobxxl
    @MrBobxxl 10 месяцев назад +71

    I think its pretty obv that the common problem with the 3 analyzed characters is, that they have absolutely broken defensive options (good disengage/camping tools and super save approach-tools). That alone makes it so, that most of the time they can decide about the pacing of the match and the enemy can do nothing but w8 and play there game or get destroyed for playing offensively against these strong defensive-tools. And this situations often sucks for both the people playing against these chars and the viewers.

    • @Dr_Nig
      @Dr_Nig 10 месяцев назад +14

      G&W not so much: the only two things he has that are actually obnoxious are the grounded up-B and u-smash having full invincibility. Without these, while retaining his strong options, he'd need to be way more careful as he couldn't afford anymore to be as inconsiderate.
      Sonic's huge problem is being a "melee zoner": fast and high mobility, relatively strong or wide hits, a couple moves are even safe on parry. Toning him down (aside from reworking his moveset to make it more appealing and less of a runny runny spinny spinny loop) in my opinion is fairly easy: less air speed and more gravity to make it more vunerable in the air, reverting back neutral special to the Smash 4 iteration so that people can actually have a proper window to react to it but improving its accuracy (why does it target opponents so high that can go over them?), fixing the safe on parry stuff and adding some more vulnerability for being too reckless by relying solely on his speed and fast frame data on a couple moves.
      Steve needs a major review because he plays a game on its own: there are too many things you can say about him that need to be addressed.

    • @hexhiaa
      @hexhiaa 10 месяцев назад +3

      @@Dr_Nig personally i am of the belief that no move should ever be safe on parry no matter how well spaced or landed

    • @Dr_Nig
      @Dr_Nig 10 месяцев назад +6

      @@hexhiaa The issue is that only Sonic is able to do this in Ultimate: he literally moves BEFORE the player who parried even if that player should have advantage frames! And it's so wrong!

    • @skeleton819
      @skeleton819 10 месяцев назад

      it seems the smash community thinks every character is trash, and if any actually are good they’re just called “broken”

    • @Dr_Nig
      @Dr_Nig 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@skeleton819 Well there's a difference between a good character and a broken character.
      G&W is "just" a good character that would need only a couple tweaks to make it more approachable, but beside that it's fine.
      Sonic is simply boring and annoying: he needs a revamp to make it actually fun and interesting to fight. As of now he's just a loose cannon that forces the player to play in a certain way without even granting a stable counterplay. Also to have SAFE ON PARRY moves is unfair., as the parry mechanic revolves around being able to attack the offender if you parried the incoming attack.
      Steve is just wrong as he literally plays a game on his own, with his own rules and tricks including game breaking ones, and a stupidly overpowered kit (just think that the WOODEN pickaxe f-air spike is almost on par with Mario's f-air spike. That's nuts!!). He would need a heavy rework.

  • @illford
    @illford 10 месяцев назад +39

    WarioWare my beloved, truly the peak of smash stage design along with Yoshi's Island (Melee) i will never get bored of either stage

    • @CakeKid57
      @CakeKid57 10 месяцев назад

      you’re lying

    • @axaturdoor7553
      @axaturdoor7553 6 месяцев назад

      @@CakeKid57What’s to lie about? The competitive scene is all about fighting with 2% of the stages and those range from 1 to 4 lines and zero items.
      That’s fun for you?

    • @CakeKid57
      @CakeKid57 6 месяцев назад

      @@axaturdoor7553 in the 3 months since i wrote that reply, absolutely not, competitive is so fucking boring especially ultimates.

  • @GhostofCerberus
    @GhostofCerberus 10 месяцев назад +28

    camping has got to go, it is so boring to watch. this is the one fighting game where camping is even a strategy.

    • @Keeby.
      @Keeby. Месяц назад +1

      its a strat in every platform fighter, and while not exactly the same thing, zoning in normal fighting games is very similar in obvious ways

    • @lordtraxroy
      @lordtraxroy 23 дня назад

      Unless you play a RTS game where camping is normal as well as cheeses

  • @c.d.x34
    @c.d.x34 10 месяцев назад +48

    I'm not a competitive Smash player, but as a viewer, it always struck Me as odd that the Ultimate comp scene *doesn't* use the Omega/Battlefield stage settings, but the only legal stages are ones that closely resemble that layout? And then not even all the stages that do? Make it make sense. Meanwhile there are plenty of good stages that don't fit this normalized layout structure, even some asymmetrical stages too. I can understand hazards off, and no walk-offs, but like, there are so many good stages in Smash Ultimate it's crazy to Me that the tournament legal list is so tiny, even omitting stages that have been perfectly legal in scenes for previous Smash games.

    • @EmperorPenguin1217
      @EmperorPenguin1217 10 месяцев назад +9

      Yeah I'm baffled why Wily Castle isn't legal

    • @thejedisonic67
      @thejedisonic67 10 месяцев назад +9

      @@EmperorPenguin1217 the reason they give is completely arbitrary and stupid too, like "oh it would just fill the same role as Final Destination" or something, when the lack of an underpass option is more than enough of a change imo

    • @EmperorPenguin1217
      @EmperorPenguin1217 10 месяцев назад +8

      @@thejedisonic67 Not only that, but it would buff wall jump users and indirectly nerf Steve because it forces him to mine slower and waste more iron

  • @Pmu_Sh0wd0wn
    @Pmu_Sh0wd0wn 10 месяцев назад +77

    I've been saying since day 1 that we should mix Hazard and No-Hazard stages. Switching ingame rulesets takes literally 5 seconds and allow more stages to shine with T&C, Smashville and even FoD having the moving platforms.

    • @WafflesDaPancake
      @WafflesDaPancake 10 месяцев назад +22

      Stage variety? With a toggle that only takes a few seconds to change and can easily be reset within half a minute if the players somehow forget to switch the toggle? You're crazy

    • @shnitzel9052
      @shnitzel9052 10 месяцев назад +2

      I think a rotating stage list (with potential limits from 8 to 6 total stages) would be super fun to see on top of hazards on/off. Ultimate is fortunate enough to have plenty of stage options that are not utilized due to alternatives and for the sake of simplicity. The biggest issue with a rotating stage list is that the underutilized stages can only be relegated to counterpicks which already make up a minority of the 8 in play (3/8 to be specific), and out of the stages not in that big 8, none really have a great argument for being swapped in as a starter should a rotating stage list be picked up. Still, anything to shake up the meta would be neat, it is up to the players & tournament holders to actually make any changes primarily.

    • @Blazertronics523
      @Blazertronics523 4 месяца назад

      Imagine if they allowed stage morph, squad strike, smash down, team battle, stamina mode, and fps meter into tournaments. Too bad most people don't like too change things up and keep on playing 1v1 flat stage.

  • @shenangelo
    @shenangelo 10 месяцев назад +65

    Stage diversity would be huge. If you look at a game like rivals, a larger stage list is not only able to keep matches fresh, but it also makes counterpicks more powerful

    • @katzhunter3627
      @katzhunter3627 10 месяцев назад +11

      I'm a ranked Rivals player. It's not like there is a huge stage choice but feels great to fight in each one of them and the stage variations are great! I praise to wolf Jesus we can keep Rivals 1 alive after 2 is deployed.

    • @gringusgaming
      @gringusgaming 10 месяцев назад +6

      ​@@katzhunter3627this does not quite apply to competitive but I have a feeling the mods will keep rivals alive for years to come

    • @bkebradley
      @bkebradley 10 месяцев назад +1

      I think the way Ult changed Yoshi's Story to make it so much larger was a very bad move. It could have been a really interesting counterpick if they kept it the same size it was in Melee

  • @waluigiisthebest2802
    @waluigiisthebest2802 10 месяцев назад +23

    It could change if there were still balance patches, but Nintendo is more interested in adding more spirits, since it gives free advertising.

    • @ShadowXeldron
      @ShadowXeldron 10 месяцев назад +9

      I'm not a competitive player, but I'll give my two cents.
      In addition to providing some cheap advertising with all their new stuff in "the only game where you can make Snake and Pikachu fight", Spirits are probably much easier to add as well. It likely involves adding a PNG and editing a JSON. Boom, new Spirit. Meanwhile, balance patching requires testing and they would probably rather have all hands on deck for their upcoming releases.
      I'm honestly surprised they're even adding sprits because I was certain that they had moved on from Smash Ultimate by now

  • @lambchu6459
    @lambchu6459 10 месяцев назад +15

    I just don't watch top 8. The games pretty sick when the mid tiers are still in.

  • @Gigan75pcp
    @Gigan75pcp 10 месяцев назад +5

    I appreciate your chosen background soundtracks. Hopefully most will know where they’re all from. Good video analysis!

  • @MarioSMG64
    @MarioSMG64 10 месяцев назад +93

    Astoundingly well-researched. This feels like a PGStats video. Well done!

    • @SeriousStriker
      @SeriousStriker 10 месяцев назад +9

      I think Eazy used to be from the PGStats team, so it makes sense.

  • @tristandahn2284
    @tristandahn2284 10 месяцев назад +10

    We should just do what Smogon does for Competitive pokemon singles... Send these 3 clowns to Ubers and have the standard metagame be A tier through low S.
    (I am mostly joking but it would be neat to have tournaments built for different power levels of characters. Imagine the standard meta being Cloud, Fox, Palu, Mario etc. But then have tournaments built for low tier characters like K rool, Piranha Plant and Dk and so forth.)

  • @esemd
    @esemd 10 месяцев назад +71

    Great video, love to see more positive discussion on how to improve the meta

    • @prawngravy18
      @prawngravy18 10 месяцев назад +1

      How do you improve a meta that is so far gone that the game died?. Remove every DLC character from tournaments.

    • @nightmarenoivern9240
      @nightmarenoivern9240 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@prawngravy182 of the most complained about characters are sonic and gnw

  • @anthonysaul7809
    @anthonysaul7809 10 месяцев назад +62

    The effort put into the editing is unreal, great video!

  • @justsans.
    @justsans. 10 месяцев назад +5

    Why can’t people just play smash and not get pissed from people’s style of playing or mains?
    I personally see it like, dude, If you lose, you lose. If you win, you win. Don’t get all salty because “Oh no this character requires 0 skill!1!1!!!”. That’s apart of the game. If it works and is apart of the game, it’s free reign to do whatever you want with the characters and their moveset. All that matters is having fun, not how or why you lost or won. Just having fun.

    • @hazyhayley7488
      @hazyhayley7488 10 месяцев назад +2

      How do you have fun when your opponent doesn’t interact and just waits for you to make a mistake.
      It’s boring.

    • @nathandobbs7540
      @nathandobbs7540 10 месяцев назад +2

      ​@@hazyhayley7488you're telling me every single match you played went like that? It sounds to me you got wrecked by an online player in a similar fashion once or twice and now you're really salty about it and won't let it go
      The thing with you NA players is you always over exaggerate everything. Even when Mkleo was in his prime you guys were still moaning how broken joker was and how "the game is dead" when he was one of the small handful of joker mains that was getting huge results. Then Leo got surpassed and you guys are repeating the same shit you said before, it's getting old

    • @hazyhayley7488
      @hazyhayley7488 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@nathandobbs7540 Every match against steve yeah.
      I like to approach and I’m tired of games devolving into them camping. Where’s the enjoyment if they’re constantly running away into overturned attacks? It gets boring playing so defensively and waiting for them to make a mistake when they have no reason to ever approach.
      No one wants to watch tweek doing nothing while acola mines just like how I don’t want to waste my time watching my opponent mine in a corner all game.
      This isn’t about skill, it’s about wanting this game to be competitive without it being boring to play. I’m tired of people not interacting.

  • @landonscott7943
    @landonscott7943 10 месяцев назад +11

    Incredible video, hard stats on the meta are so much better than half-baked takes

  • @MrTNT49
    @MrTNT49 10 месяцев назад +14

    To be fair Brawl and Smash4 DID actually die

    • @shadestrider1033
      @shadestrider1033 10 месяцев назад +8

      But Brawl sort of came back. Like Jesus.
      Smash 4 is completely dead.

  • @nonomen6665
    @nonomen6665 9 месяцев назад +2

    I think an expanded, hazards on stage list would be great.
    You can't counterpick to a stage you've already won on, and, I think for something a bit more wild and experimental, make it so that a stage can't be played on more than twice for each set (no matter what).

  • @Spyder-Marth
    @Spyder-Marth 10 месяцев назад +32

    The community needs to change more than the actual meta and I will die on this hill.

    • @janswhatsupdoc
      @janswhatsupdoc 10 месяцев назад +11

      sadly thats as possible as bringing back dinosaurs is

    • @YesYes-yd1oy
      @YesYes-yd1oy 10 месяцев назад +2

      fr but I still want more stages on the stagelist, not cuz interactivity stuff I just think itd be cool

    • @BBB-pe3ip
      @BBB-pe3ip 10 месяцев назад +3

      I've noticed the community needs to change BECAUSE the meta needs to change. A lot of players have a love-hate relationship with this game. You can't force them into blind love.
      SSBU is close to being perfect, but it's held back by the current state of the game. It's very frustrating and disappointing for the people who can see its potential.

  • @Nawakooo0
    @Nawakooo0 10 месяцев назад +21

    This was a great video! I don't even play Ultimate, I play Melee, but it's sad to see Ultimate stagnating right now. I really hope people start experimenting with the ruleset.

  • @SmugLilBugger
    @SmugLilBugger 10 месяцев назад +3

    "Ever increasing threat" really downplays just how bad Bayonetta's case was.
    She didn't arrive an increasing threat, she was in and immediately was broken to the point of absolute disdain within the community for anyone who played her in tournaments. Fuck, I remember the Smash Ultimate Nintendo event where someone picked Bayonetta live on stage and got the crowd disgruntled with every single kill move.

  • @JoshSaysStuff
    @JoshSaysStuff 10 месяцев назад +10

    I still think a Hazards On stage list would be healthier for the game! Say what you will about Brawl and Smash 4, but that Smashville platform was responsible for some seriously hype moments. Ultimate has more than enough stages to accommodate a shift to Hazards On, and it would be more fun as both a player and spectator.

    • @nonomen6665
      @nonomen6665 9 месяцев назад

      Asides, the thing people wanted hazards off for the most was Stadium, and that's a lot less relevant with Small Battlefield around now.

  • @justanothermanontheinternet
    @justanothermanontheinternet 10 месяцев назад +8

    Somehwere, coney is smiling

  • @Dondre69
    @Dondre69 3 месяца назад +1

    Competitive Squad Strike would be so insanely cool. Such a fun game mode that introduces so much more variability to play. An absolute travesty you can’t play it online.

  • @lucariade4112
    @lucariade4112 10 месяцев назад

    This editing is friggin’ crazy! SPECTACULAR

  • @alexandre526
    @alexandre526 10 месяцев назад +7

    Super interesting video, i TO'd a hazard on tournament in 2022, it went well, people arent that scared of change (it was a 60 slots tournament). I think removing stages like the two yoshis led to this metagame, PS2 is the most picked stage but not the most neutral, it's awfully large :s

  • @RufioTheThird
    @RufioTheThird 10 месяцев назад +26

    Hollup, did he say Sans? 1:57

    • @Eroil
      @Eroil 10 месяцев назад +9

      Steve is Sans

    • @user-ix6cd9ek8v
      @user-ix6cd9ek8v 10 месяцев назад +7

      "stands as" vs "sans is"

    • @RufioTheThird
      @RufioTheThird 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@user-ix6cd9ek8v Oh my god, I hear the contrary now. This is some Yanny or Laurel type shii

    • @cephalosjr.1835
      @cephalosjr.1835 10 месяцев назад +1

      I think he actually ended up saying “stanzas”, which is really easy to hear as “stands as”, “stands is”, “sans as”, or “sans is”.

  • @escapegrass
    @escapegrass 10 месяцев назад

    THIS VIDEO IS CRIMINALLY UNDERRATED. SO MUCH EFFORT AND RESEARCH WENT INTO THIS, HOW DOES THIS ONLY HAVE 36k VEIWS AS OF NOW???? GO SHARE THIS WITH YOUR FELLOW SSBU NERDS RN. GET THIS MAN TO 100k AT LEAST. I HAVE ALMOST NEVER SEEN A VIDEO WITH AS MUCH EFFORT AS THIS ONE.

  • @L00t00wii
    @L00t00wii 10 месяцев назад +4

    I always feel bad playing g&w tbh. I’ve played him since melee and I love him so much and i get called a tier hog for playing him sometimes. I usually don’t play him anymore because of it but he’s still by far my favorite and best character.

    • @JeffreyMalins
      @JeffreyMalins 5 месяцев назад

      Hey, play whoever you want, even if you’re not great at them! Heck, I main Corrin for Arceus’s sake, despite not being good with her. Play who you want

  • @orphilaadjovi642
    @orphilaadjovi642 10 месяцев назад +1

    Great video ! The stage idea is very interesting, never thought of that.

    • @aoeu256
      @aoeu256 10 месяцев назад

      I have an idea for competitive items, the items don't spawn completely randomly on stage (they only spawn in certain areas) and it shows you where an item is going to spawn about 5 seconds before it actually spawns (it could also first it shows you possible spawn points, then it gets narrowed down). You know which pokemon are in each ball, the worst items like super-bombs and maximum M tomatoes are nerfed a bit. You know which item it is will spawn before it spawns as well.

  • @dingo9696
    @dingo9696 10 месяцев назад +545

    NA ultimate is dying because of people complaining and the community tearing itself apart. The japanese scene is thriving and gets way better viewership because they arent babies and they just play the game. Thats all it is. Changing the ruleset wont change the community, which is the real source of the problem.

    • @supermariomaker1734
      @supermariomaker1734 10 месяцев назад +96

      That’s pretty based I can’t argue to much with that. I never see Japan complain that much about acola because the country is familiar with how to fight Steve more than any other region in the world.

    • @spoon1078
      @spoon1078 10 месяцев назад +26

      actually such a real response ^

    • @tokmanu61
      @tokmanu61 10 месяцев назад +12

      Man, that's so true

    • @Newbmann
      @Newbmann 10 месяцев назад +37

      I have to say smaller american locals are also thriveing for the same reason.
      Southern North East Ohio has so many more locals popping up because we just play the game.
      We are by no means a big or good region we have 10 good players here and everyone else would get anything above a 5-2 at any real major without a lucky bracket and 30 who could get better than a 3-2 consistently but we just play in region and getting better and growing.

    • @whateveryouwantmetobe.1489
      @whateveryouwantmetobe.1489 10 месяцев назад +32

      The only character I've ever seen Japan complain about is Min Min. They are extremely optimistic and patient and are doing great things over there.

  • @Dragonmist19X
    @Dragonmist19X 10 месяцев назад +3

    Smash players just line to whine about everything and don't want to put in the effort to do anything about it, unless it's the bare minimum like banning a character. It's no coincidence that Ultimate is the only game where multiple characters have either been talked about being banned or have actually been banned. If you have more than one character that has been banned at tourneys that's not a sign of the game being poorly balanced, just a community that would rather ban and complain over learning.

  • @Leandro35
    @Leandro35 10 месяцев назад +1

    I did not expect deltarune music in the background caught me off guard

  • @tacticaljunk1608
    @tacticaljunk1608 10 месяцев назад +3

    It's absolutely insane to me how many options smash players have over other fighting games and smash games. SO many characters, so many stages. And they want to play 3 characters on the most boring stage picks....
    I don't watch competitive Ultimate anymore because it becomes exhausting watching Sonic die to Steve blocks on minute 4 on Pokemon Stadium II or Town & City. Same shit over and over.

  • @lbesavant
    @lbesavant 10 месяцев назад +22

    When it comes to stage lists, I think that having 3 bans and 8 stages total is toxic. It essentially almost gives the winning player an advantage. Proper counter picking, such as 6 stages and no bans + DSR in best of 5 and 1 ban in best of 3 could speed up games by giving characters more advantages on selected stgaes

    • @ggnicklu
      @ggnicklu 10 месяцев назад +2

      God I love DSR. Anything for variety

  • @kailesperance1922
    @kailesperance1922 9 месяцев назад

    I never thought I’d say this to you, EasyFreezie, but thank you for your hard work to provide the smash community with accurate data. We really appreciate it, especially in this era of the game.

  • @Xemera18
    @Xemera18 10 месяцев назад +7

    So what im getting at here, is "warioware legal"?

  • @mairou996
    @mairou996 10 месяцев назад

    I am genuinely shocked how you have made a video this excellent and yet are a relatively small creator. Fantastic editing, script, pacing, audio quality etc. Keep up the phenomenal work, you’ll blow up in no time.

  • @crazykhespar8487
    @crazykhespar8487 10 месяцев назад

    2:14 Im glad Greninja's sister made it higher than he did. Ken looks extra angsty, and Ness looks taller and........ has a sword??

  • @mammaluigi22
    @mammaluigi22 10 месяцев назад +5

    Ban camping. If someone doesn’t interact for a full 1:30 minuet then they should be punished. By loss of stock Camping is one of the best ways to play the game especially for characters that have very good oos options. Or endless projectile usage.

    • @MilfSlayr
      @MilfSlayr 10 месяцев назад +8

      Sometimes camping can be hard to define especially when both players aren’t interacting. If both players don’t interact it can be kinda hard to decide what to do. It also sucks to have your tourney run depend on TOs decision making

    • @nivrap_
      @nivrap_ 10 месяцев назад +4

      If you are winning, it is not your responsibility to go in, it is your opponent's. You can't ban camping any more than you can ban edgeguarding.

  • @coolshirtkid
    @coolshirtkid 10 месяцев назад +3

    mfs will see the stats that steve, g&w, and sonic are the most represented characters at a top level and then say that people overreact on how common they are 😂

  • @janswhatsupdoc
    @janswhatsupdoc 10 месяцев назад +8

    When are people gonna learn to stop getting hit by and punish gnw fair and dash attack 🗿

    • @corgitoergosum8400
      @corgitoergosum8400 10 месяцев назад

      It's actually embarrassing lol.

    • @legrandliseurtri7495
      @legrandliseurtri7495 10 месяцев назад

      It was a relief to see Gluto punish Miya's unsafe dash attack with an upsmash during their first set at Umebura lol. Why are so few doing this?

    • @corgitoergosum8400
      @corgitoergosum8400 10 месяцев назад +6

      @@legrandliseurtri7495 Its kind of hard to react to and has a bigger burst range than you'd expect. It's still predictable though

  • @AndreasSaag
    @AndreasSaag 10 месяцев назад +16

    If Nintendo would add this to the next smash game we wouldn’t have to deal with timeouts:
    **The way the game functions now is that when timer runs out**
    1. The screen fades and players are spawned again
    2. They’re instantly at 300%
    3. The blast zone gradually shrinks to a minimum over a time span of ca 15 seconds.
    **Here are the changes they could (should) make**
    1. The game doesn’t end when timer runs out but a new “sudden death countdown” timer starts and the game continues seamlessly without fading the screen and respawning the players. This timer indicates how long it takes before the percents have reached 300 and blast zone is minimal.
    (NOTE: this happens regardless of how many stocks each player has left.)
    2. The players’ percent doesn’t go to 300 directly but increases exponentially during the “sudden death countdown” timer until it reaches a maximum of 300.
    If one player has been moving away *slightly* more from their opponent during the game that player’s percent increases *slightly* faster.
    If they moved away *a lot* more form their opponent their percent increases *a lot* faster and in addition this the opponent’s percent is increased slower.
    3. The blast zone shrinks gradually during the “zero death countdown” timer until
    it reaches a minimum. (Much like it does now although there’s no timer).
    4. **The most important thing**: the amount of time on the “sudden death countdown” timer is customizable.
    **How to implement it**
    If we set the “sudden death countdown” timer to 15, casual games can remain more or less the same as they are today.
    In tournament, however, we could now start actually using sudden death, thanks to the percent increasing/blast zone shrinking exponentially and the possibility to make it happen over a longer time.
    Let’s say we keep the main timer on 7 minutes and set the “sudden death countdown” timer to 3 minutes.
    **Scenario A**
    A normal smash game where Tweek and Dabuz have been fighting patiently but neither of them was really camping. When the main timer runs out both are at last stock, Tweek is at 1% and Dabuz is at 99%.
    In this scenario we would probably not even notice the effects of the increasing percents or shrinking blast zone before Tweek manages to finish the game.
    **Scenario B**
    Light vs Sonix. Sonix has been omega camping the whole game. He has 2 stocks at 80% and Light is at 1 stock, 10% as the main timer runs out.
    Sonix now knows that he’s been running away from Light a lot and that his percents will go up a lot faster. He will not be incentivized to camp any further but to finish Light off before this happens.
    Light on the other hand could play normally and rest assured that the pressure is now on Sonix to actually engage. If Light plays patiently he will have a decent chance to catch up to Sonix and clutch the W.
    **Conclusion**
    We can never get rid of defensive play or down right camping. But with these new mechanics in play we would still have entertaining games since the timing out strat would often bite the camper in the ass in the end.
    Regarding games potentially getting three minutes longer and delaying tournaments I don’t think that would be a big concern because:
    1. Not many games go to time anyway.
    2. There will be less incentive to time out.
    3. Even if the “sudden death countdown” timer is set to 3 minutes the exponentially increasing percents and shrinking blast zone would mean a lot of games would end within 1-2 minutes.

    • @John0Phillips
      @John0Phillips 10 месяцев назад

      Something like that does sound pretty fun

    • @judithforever9494
      @judithforever9494 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@John0Phillipsya but according to this guy it penalizes people for having a lead.

  • @Bhound96
    @Bhound96 10 месяцев назад +7

    Amazing editing and analysis. Great vid!

  • @memelurd7341
    @memelurd7341 10 месяцев назад +2

    Yes, King Dedede needs to become the best character in the game and then world peace will be achieved.

  • @Coltarion
    @Coltarion 10 месяцев назад

    Great video. Deserves way more views.

  • @backwardslongjump
    @backwardslongjump 10 месяцев назад

    Incredible video. So well researched and presented!! Excited to see where your channel goes

  • @michaelkarim57
    @michaelkarim57 10 месяцев назад +13

    Nice video! I'm curious if the stats you released are public, it would be really interesting to analyze the variance in how long each character lives/kills.

    • @eazyfreezie
      @eazyfreezie  10 месяцев назад +16

      Not currently. I would need to do a lot of cleaning up to make the spreadsheet readable lol. But I plan to release my spreadsheets with some other character stat stuff in a few months once everything is in order.

  • @rad6917
    @rad6917 10 месяцев назад

    This is really well made! Looking forward to more!

  • @bloodofphantoms
    @bloodofphantoms 10 месяцев назад +2

    now here's the hard part: convince the ultimate community this late into the game to commit to these changes in any way at a widespread level.

  • @tymunster
    @tymunster 10 месяцев назад +18

    Here's the thing.
    Melee never died. It has enough skill expression and health to where Puff even leads into that.
    Brawl died. It was incredibly unhealthy and over centralized.
    Sm4sh died. It was incredibly unhealthy and over centralized.

    • @yu-sama
      @yu-sama 5 месяцев назад +3

      They died because there was a new thing lol, Melee at the time of Brawl was its own thing and ppl never stopped playing it over the new game, something that happened to Brawl and later on, Smash 4. And arguably, it will happen to Ultimate. Melee at this point is a different game all together than most recent ones, just like Smash 64.

  • @badfish321
    @badfish321 10 месяцев назад +5

    Cool video but I think a better comparison would be instead of comparing their stats to the average, compare it to the average excluding them.

    • @eternal0star
      @eternal0star 10 месяцев назад +2

      Given that they account for almost 1/4th of the matches it does seem worth doing, it could potentially cause a large shift in the stats. I could easily see a change of up to 5-10 on damage and same to timer.

    • @badfish321
      @badfish321 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@eternal0star Exactly. I watched the video a day ago and dont remember the details, but sonic only having like 30 second longer games than average is less interesting than sonic's game time in comparison to the average excluding him.

  • @azaleawa
    @azaleawa 10 месяцев назад +5

    such a good video with so much put into it :3 i’m glad that the current meta is something i really like ngl but i wouldn’t really be against change at all, hazards on ruleset sounds so chill !

  • @Bayx92
    @Bayx92 10 месяцев назад

    I would love seasonal changes to rulesets. It would definitely keep things fresh. It would keep me coming back to try out new stuff.

  • @abeln1167
    @abeln1167 10 месяцев назад +1

    youre lowkey the best ssbu content creator i love ur data analysis u better keep posting

  • @charl2182
    @charl2182 10 месяцев назад +1

    1:56 but WHO?
    "SANS?"

  • @yellowcard8100
    @yellowcard8100 10 месяцев назад

    2:04 sheik has the name Ken.

  • @wolfboom2
    @wolfboom2 10 месяцев назад +2

    Maybe the meta do need to change who knows. But attacking the players defently need to stop.

  • @xtroyr_5747
    @xtroyr_5747 10 месяцев назад +2

    Yooo meta knight was the knight of the meta

  • @BenjaminBoslet-rm6jr
    @BenjaminBoslet-rm6jr 10 месяцев назад

    Amazing video. I don't comment much on RUclips but your effort deserves it

  • @madmonk4214
    @madmonk4214 10 месяцев назад +1

    you have shulk on ness's picture in the graphic

  • @nikc101
    @nikc101 10 месяцев назад +53

    Legalize warioware

    • @DsMarbleRacing
      @DsMarbleRacing 10 месяцев назад +2

      Unova Pokémon League and Northern Cave as well

    • @jmurray1110
      @jmurray1110 6 месяцев назад +1

      NC could be an issue due to the background similar to FD so there should be a rule about that

    • @666blaziken
      @666blaziken 11 дней назад

      A coney enthusiast I see

  • @DoMorrMusic
    @DoMorrMusic 10 месяцев назад +4

    another good video id recommend is coney's "is smash ultimate dying"

  • @magnum567134
    @magnum567134 9 месяцев назад

    I would like to see Warioware, Yggdrasil, Castle Siege added to the stage list. I think those add a good amount of variety that's not present at the moment

  • @andrewb.7917
    @andrewb.7917 10 месяцев назад

    I would prefer a hazards on list because it extends combo routes in more dynamic ways which is just really fun to watch imo.

  • @EpicEventsPartyRentals
    @EpicEventsPartyRentals Месяц назад

    Amazing data farming and analysis!!!!!! How did you compile all this info? I know you said you watched all the matches but was there any short cuts to actually get ssid info? I.e. figuring out which move killed and at what %
    Amazing work once again 👏

  • @captainclutch9732
    @captainclutch9732 10 месяцев назад

    Fantastic video really high quality! I like what you have to say as well

  • @bert6236
    @bert6236 10 месяцев назад

    I'll VERY gladly take either of your proposed stage list suggestions. Give me more spicy hazards off stages, or turn hazards on.

  • @trustme3321
    @trustme3321 10 месяцев назад +2

    This is seriously amazing. Well done! You deserve to succeed.

  • @pikminologueraisin2139
    @pikminologueraisin2139 10 месяцев назад +2

    weird how no one said smash 64 was dying because of X character. definitively the best smash game

  • @antonparas4782
    @antonparas4782 10 месяцев назад

    good education + nerd = great content like this. thanks, subbed, keep it up!

  • @jeffersonian4
    @jeffersonian4 10 месяцев назад

    Good research and video. Btw, your tone and cadence sound so much like Mark Rober

  • @Crons_Squared
    @Crons_Squared 10 месяцев назад +2

    I find it funny how before ultimate G&W was consistanly shit in every iteration of smash he's been in, but when he does get to be good now everyone hates on him

    • @callinater6133
      @callinater6133 10 месяцев назад +3

      He was okay in brawl and was very strong in project m for a while before getting nerfed and he was hated there too.

    • @Crons_Squared
      @Crons_Squared 10 месяцев назад

      @@callinater6133 huh, didnt know that, but atleast i belive this is the first time he's top tier right?

    • @callinater6133
      @callinater6133 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@Crons_Squared he was top tier in project m at one point, but as far as official games go yeah.

    • @Crons_Squared
      @Crons_Squared 10 месяцев назад

      @@callinater6133 close enough

  • @riliji
    @riliji 10 месяцев назад +2

    I respect the research, but I don't think the way you're describing the problem is correct. As long as it's cool gameplay, I couldn't care less if the game takes longer than average, or if the players are losing their stocks above 130. I could watch and enjoy a whole grand finals of MkLeo vs Tweek going to game 10 with all games taking 5mn if that's what it comes down to. But I could also watch a quick game of Steve vs Sonic and still think it's boring.
    With that in mind, I don't think the stagelist changes you're suggesting would really help that much. We'd just see less of the lame stuff but also less of the cool stuff... If players actually pick these stages, that is. Because yes, if ps2 and sbf are picked so often, it's just because they're the most loved ones overall, and not only by the campy players. I don't like the idea of forcing a cheesy stagelist just because it would supposedly make the game more exciting (for who?) Basically what happened with Yoshi's is that nobody liked playing on them anyways so there was no point in keeping them. The same would happen if you randomly decided to add Warioware, at best people are gonna gentleman to not picking it, at worst you'll have to waste 1 ban every time for a stage that's basically never gonna be played.
    And if you do that just to try to balance the game the way you want, well MAYBE you could make a stagelist that isn't great for Sonic, not even sure for Steve that guy should just be banned, we've seen how much better the lmm tournaments were... But anyways it's a game with 89 characters, you would also end up nerfing some of the low tiers for no reason, or accidentally buff ones that absolutely didn't need it (can't wait to see ROB killing at ridiculous % by just doing raw nair into side b; and do we really want to see Game&Watch getting consistent early kills?)
    I also think making decisions only based on the top 0.1% players' sets maybe isn't the best approach, considering that just 1 talented player can vastly shift how it goes, but also more importantly because these are important changes that will affect the remaining 99.9%. I don't see Sonic dominating that much in regional/local scenes or in the earlier parts of the bracket at majors...

  • @four-en-tee
    @four-en-tee 10 месяцев назад +2

    Its not whether it needs to change, but can and will it change? At the very least, Steve needs to be banned.

  • @Loscxxo
    @Loscxxo 10 месяцев назад +1

    Holy BO2 reference

  • @Muddytony20
    @Muddytony20 10 месяцев назад +1

    GOOD HEAVENS That's Waaaay too much research for a channel/view count this size. Absolutely amazing work man :)

  • @SSL_2004
    @SSL_2004 10 месяцев назад +4

    The stage list of ultimate is so pathetic. You have over 100 stages and you don't even use 10% of them despite a large amount of them being viable. It's so obnoxious whenever someone discounts something like warioware because "people die off the sides too"
    ...yes
    That's why it's Warioware and not some other. Because the stages are SUPPOSED to be different and SUPPOSED to give advantages.
    YES Yoshi's Story has a slope, YES Mementos has a slope,
    Fucking D e a l w i t h i t
    This is a fighting game not a footsies simulator.

    • @nathandobbs7540
      @nathandobbs7540 10 месяцев назад +3

      That's the one thing I don't like about ult's comp scene. Sakurai literally poured his heart into making all those fantastic stages, even making most viable, and just a few ugly ass sweats at the top influenced a whole ass scene to ban most stages because they personally don't like them

  • @robodoesthings
    @robodoesthings 6 месяцев назад

    I would say legalize mementos, castle siege, Lylat, and yoshi’s island, warioware is a hell no because of the small blast zones, and hazards on/off should be differed on whether it’s a starter or counterpick, with hazards turned on for counterpicks

  • @dh3913
    @dh3913 10 месяцев назад

    12:40-12:42 if this is what u want I gotchu fam

  • @squirrelwithabanana
    @squirrelwithabanana 10 месяцев назад

    Great video!

  • @donhenley2089
    @donhenley2089 10 месяцев назад

    this is a flipping awesome video

  • @Eroil
    @Eroil 10 месяцев назад

    A very good video that was able to look at the issues a lot of people talk about with a mostly unbiased perspective. The answer isn't always as obvious as people in the comments make it out to be

  • @nouser935
    @nouser935 10 месяцев назад +2

    personally i would like it to change

  • @lasagnahog7695
    @lasagnahog7695 10 месяцев назад

    I like the last bit. I don't know enough to say whether Ultimate needs change but it's ostensibly going to be around for a long time so why not try some things sooner rather than later.

  • @rekt7491
    @rekt7491 10 месяцев назад

    Moral of the story, everybody mains falcon

  • @bullseye3805
    @bullseye3805 10 месяцев назад

    2:05 why is sheik twice?

  • @dagummybearking123
    @dagummybearking123 3 месяца назад

    1:57 sans?

  • @iceclimberswereamistake
    @iceclimberswereamistake 6 месяцев назад

    I think there's one simple thing that could possibly make the game more entertaining to watch, and it's not even that hard.
    Have you SEEN competitive Marvel VS Capcom 2? There might as well be 5 characters in that game, because the top tiers are so good that they basically render every other, potentially usable character useless thanks to the fact that they have weaknesses.
    The problem is that the top tiers play an entirely separate game from the cast. Banning the top 4 would practically create an entirely new game. And for some people, they like being the overpowered character.
    Some people saw this in the Xbox 360 days and created a separate, new ruleset. Low tier tournaments.
    Despite it's name, it mostly only bothers to ban the top tiers, and sometimes limiting the power of other characters like Captain Commando (Who gets his power from one of his assists, which is banned).
    This does a lot for the game. Because the characters who cause the most damage to the meta are banned, the idea of a "good character" opens up a lot more, since there isn't one guy who is just straight up better than everyone else in every possible way, and since it's just only one ruleset, the fun of fighting the actual top tiers isn't lost at high level play. Plus, we still get to feel hyped whenever someone picks a bad character to show off, because there's nothing stopping you from expressing your freedom in a "real" tournament.
    So why don't people do this for Ultimate?
    Think about it. I see most people complain that Steve plays a different game from the rest of the cast, so he should be banned. But if we banned him, we lose players because we don't get the same game. No other Smash character can build, and we lose out on all of the tech that people practiced and put effort into learning.
    This is exactly why Meta Knight was never banned in Brawl. Even though he is WAY more extreme than Steve, he still was never banned because top level players refused to play without him.
    Or banning Sonic? I used to see a Ult player who played a rushdown-type Sonic, and people thought he was cool. I want to see someone go to a tournament like this.
    Kazuya? That character demands execution at a top level (I know I just uploaded a video implying that you can do a very easy "infinite" by spamming D-smash, but that would never work in a tournament). You remove the skill expression of picking a "hard character" if you ban him.
    By creating low tier tournaments, top level players won't complain while spectators can rejoice that they get to see more than two characters in the game.
    This isn't a perfect solution, but it's braindead easy, and yet nobody has even bothered trying???????????????????

  • @happymonkeyfish
    @happymonkeyfish 10 месяцев назад

    Im not far into the video, but its interesting to me that Ultimate has its own "5 gods" era (in this case 4)
    Also i think melee has avoided this problem of non-interactivity by the way that all the top characters have ways of 0 to death'ing eachother or at least forcing action by way of threats of a 0 to death.
    It also helps that steve isnt in melee and even the best character, fox, gets blown out if you can start a good combo on him. Oh and recoveries are not nearly as good across the board (minus jigglypuff)

  • @Adventureruler
    @Adventureruler 10 месяцев назад +2

    HAZARDS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED

  • @seankearns6388
    @seankearns6388 10 месяцев назад +1

    You shouldve talked about squadstrike

  • @Dead5.
    @Dead5. 10 месяцев назад +1

    I would love smaller stages and they're so much fun too

  • @jesuspernia8031
    @jesuspernia8031 26 дней назад +1

    Aggressive Sonic is not only better than campy Sonic for competitive, but dope as fuck to watch. I hate campy Sonic. It’s a total contrast to his character.

  • @ChaosSolak
    @ChaosSolak 10 месяцев назад

    Frigate Orpheon (no hazard) would be a good stage honestly. It's small and the asymetrical aspect of it (platform on the left, not on the right) is counter balanced by the right half moving up and down. One issue with the stage list is that they're all too similar. For example, PS2 and SBF are almost identical... it's boring.
    And speaking of boring, most players have had no need to develop a certain aspect of the game: items. Even though items spawn randomly, they can in fact be played competitively... some of them, at least. We could have one type of item spawn each match, like the drill, the beast ball or the killing edge. The first 2, WhyDo has made a video playing them (Item Breakers) and honestly, they're so sick and take so much skill to use! And unlike pokeballs, you can play around them too. The beast ball can be caught with a well-timed airdodge or attack, for instance.
    I can understand shying away from change. Why risk breaking what isn't broken? But with interest in the game waning, there needs to be some sort of change to make games more entertaining. Give spectators a spectacle while, of course, remaining skill-based and not junky or cheesy.

  • @ade1174
    @ade1174 10 месяцев назад

    I haven't watched competitive Smash Ultimate since the early days when MKLeo and Tweek were at the top. How are they faring nowadays?

  • @DefinetlyD3NTRR
    @DefinetlyD3NTRR 10 месяцев назад

    Finally after 500 years he uploaded, see you after GTA 6 comes out.