Being disabled, with chronic pain, I can understand the willingness to move one's consciousness in to a more resiliant frame of metal and paracausality. Due to the body dismorphia that accompanies it, I also intimatly understand what it feels like to be a stranger in your own body. Looking in the mirror and seeing a face that no longer even looks human; even with no personal memories, its no surprise that Exo's minds were so difficult to nail down. Just reading some of the journal entries from the game, the Exo voulenteers were put through a living hell. I totally feel it.
I can relate. I'm also disabled. I'm paraplegic because of a spinal cord defect at birth called Spinal Bifida. God bless you! You're not alone. I'll keep you in my thoughts!
the trick you see, is you need administrative access to the motor functions. Sudo stop ouchies. Sudo bend knees. I will share my discoveries should I make any. I'm here with you.
Only 2 minutes in, but I just had this thought: Ghosts being able to choose Exos as Guardians has some interesting implications. 1, Ghosts/The Light consider Exos to be as alive as any Human. 2. Ghost are able to recognize a person from broken mechanical limbs and perhaps a head with an unrecoverable exomind once inside, and are able to not only rebuilt and reboot them, but truly *resurrect* them afterwards.
Mhmm mhmm, and remember Fellwinter? He wasn't an Exo. He wasn't human before and then turned into an Exo...he was a robot created by Rasputin. And he became a Guardian!!
@maimer1691 Felwinter was an Exo. He just wasn't created in the typical way. His resurrection was a conscious decision by the Traveler. Felspring was specifically told to bring him back.
@@maimer1691That's still ve4y fascinating! Even though we now know the realm of the mind and conscious thought belongs to the Darkness, somehow, a sufficiently advanced machine was deemed self-conscious by our paracausal entity.
i swear i saw it mentioned somewhere in the lore that the interior mechanisms of Exos are so complicated that only their Ghosts can understand how any of it works. idk if i'm misremembering but i swear i read that somewhere. could have something to do with the traveler being a machine god in itself. what better to understand a machine than an equally complex machine?
your videos are so fire. When I first started playing destiny I thought it was so weird how a game this mainstream seemed to be so obsessed with concepts of consciousness, free will, memory, and the alienation of the conscious mind from the body. Between guardian resurrection, Exo's, and the taken, it's a pervasive theme, and I was unsatisfied with the existing lore videos on it. Your overview of the topic was incredible, and I especially appreciated your perspective as it relates to being trans.
I've argued for years that Destiny could be considered a horror game based off of a fraction of the things talked about in the lore. People really take for granted that had it not been for the Traveler and its sacrifice/granting us Ghosts, humanity would've died out painfully centuries ago. Like, *just* the Fallen or Cabal would've been their own existential nightmare, but throw in the Hive, the Vex, the Taken, and the Witness, minus our space magic? Itd be like Hellraiser mixed with the Flood mixed with Lovecraft. Absolutely terrifying, but you're basically the only one talking about this angle of it.
Who was taking that for granted? But yeah, I've always thought a lot of the lore was terrifying, same with some of the implications of things in game such as being lost in time in VOG
I agree, I just wish that this tone was shown in the game more. I know it's not that kind of game, and it's not rated M, but it would be much more interesting that way (imo)
i could never imagine making a video this long, nor write this thoughtfully, nor read out loud so clearly for almost 2 whole hours, this is an amazing piece of work
A friend of mine (a titan main) stated "All Titans share a single braincell, and if you ever see a titan melee in a moment that seems odd or hazardous, it's because a Titan somewhere needed to melee and all react in kind."
Not gonna lie. Deep stone lullaby is such a beautiful song. Recalling what i knew about the song's inplication and what was to come made me cry before the video even started.
For people that enjoy the idea of questioning the morality of multiple copies of yourself & questioning your humanity, there’s a convenient horror game called SOMA that delves right into all of that
Me: oh, this looks interesting, I like destiny and long form video essays Me during: holy moly, I was not expecting a deep dive into theoretical phenomenology! As a theology PhD, it's quite a delight to see media analysis this deep. You just got a sub, great work!
This is the first video I've ever seen from you and I instantly added it to my playlist of favorite video essays. This explains my feelings on the Deep Stone Crypt corner of Destiny's lore so perfectly its uncanny. I tried to express some of these feelings once but I could never fully explain them, but now you've finally done that for me and I can't thank you enough. It's like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders finally being able to pin these ideas I've been having and knowing that I'm not the only one who feels this way and geeks out about DSC so hard. Instant subscribe :) (Below is the time I tried to express my thoughts on DSC, it's a little lengthy) As much as I love Deep Stone Crypt, I can’t help but be disappointed by it Don’t get me wrong, it’s still in my top 3 favorite raids in the entire franchise. A fun, relatively easy raid with amazing set-pieces and even more amazing music. Not to mention the legendary sequence in orbit aboard the Morningstar. But it isn’t what I wanted. It isn’t The Crypt. We’ve heard of this place of legend in the lore for years and gotten so little info around it; it was one of the biggest mysteries in all of Destiny. It was some mythic facility where the exos were born, all shrouded in a cloud of horror, mad science, and some nebulous, sinister secret. All of its concept art painted it as some tower standing among an endless, frozen wasteland. It’s left to the imagination what lies inside, or even how big the inside is. How deep does the crypt go? It’s almost scary in a certain way, and the mystery of it all primes our imagination for something awe inspiring. When the day finally came to raid the crypt, the music continued to feed our sense of wonder. Desolation and Athanasia perfectly capture the anticipation and awe of searching for this long lost place of legend. But when we finally see the crypt, it doesn’t live up to these legends. It’s set up against the side of some icy cliffs and is shaped more like a bunker than a tower. A _much_ less striking visual than if it were towering high among a barren plain. And when we go inside, most of the rooms we see are relatively cramped and small. The Clarity Control set-piece starts to live up to expectations as some spacious room with a dark secret in the middle, influencing its environment in supernatural ways. But beyond that, the crypt lab returns to being enclosed. Of course, then we go to space and that’s amazing in its own right, but the Morningstar _isn’t_ the crypt. The crypt is supposed to be this secret, dark lab of man-made horrors, science gone too far, and the existential horror of immortality, all realized in the scale and grandeur of the golden age that makes you stand in awe of how humans could have even built something like it. I wanted to see more of THAT, NOT go into space. I wish we would have gone deeper into the crypt and seen more amazing set-pieces like the exo assembly areas in Creation or the ravine of computers and databanks at Eternity in the bray exoscience labs. Even places mentioned in the lore, like the test chambers and observation theaters used by Clovis Bray and his experiments with clarity. I wanted to discover more of the unethical experiments and mad science hidden away deep beneath the ice. I wanted to fight more exoscience-type threats like Atraks. I wanted to be faced with the existentially terrifying questions posed by the existence of Exos and The Crypt in-game rather than just in lore entries. I wanted to have a boss battle with a giant Clovis-1 exo, dammit. _Anything_ could’ve been inside the crypt, but instead we just got Taniks. I actually once had a dream about what the crypt could’ve been. I don’t remember much about it except for one particular part. I was walking through a blizzard near the entrance of the crypt. It felt like I was standing in a queue to enter the facility or something. It was dark, like how the arctic regions of earth are when they don’t see the sun for months at a time. The only illumination came from the floodlights around the crypt’s entrance; it felt I was seeing the crypt in its heyday, when it was fully operational. When I finally walked through the entrance, the area was much larger and more contemporary than the crypt entrance we see in-game. I remember there being windows along the perimeter of the entrance, almost like the front of a grocery store or something. I also distinctly remember looking towards one side of the room and seeing an aircraft of sorts being brought in from outside. This area felt like some kind of terminal, a waiting area to enter the rest of the facility. Then I looked at where I was going, and the dream became a nightmare. There was a door at the far end of the room, bathed in harsh white fluorescent lights, brighter than those illuminating the room I was in. It looked like one of those doors you see in the bray exoscience areas in-game but more metallic and with black/yellow warning patterns around it. I knew intrinsically it was the door that led further into the crypt. When I saw it, a sense of _overwhelming_ fear washed over me. Fear at what lie beyond the door, and fear that I was standing in line to face it. And then, for a second, the world began changing around me. The entire room I was in now looked to be post-collapse. All but a few of the lights had gone out, leaving areas that looked like they were under spotlights. Many of the interior surfaces blasted with frost, the metal itself freezing through. Under one of the lights I saw the aircraft from before, now crumpled and covered in ice. The only thing that hadn’t changed was the door, still pristine as ever and washing it’s harsh fluorescent light over the rest of the entrance, casting long shadows across the snow. It was inviting me in. Despite only remembering that small moment of my dream, I think it perfectly captured what I was looking for in the Deep Stone Crypt and what the in-game version lacked. Dread. Dread at the unknown nature of it all, dread at the sheer monumentality of everything, dread at the mind-breaking idea of immortality and copying your very being, and dread at the inevitable discovery of the beautiful, horrific things that lie beyond that door. Awe-inspiring, curiosity-piquing, mind-shattering dread.
@@A-with-the-J this by far the best interpretation of the expectations I had for the reveal of the deep stone crypt. But if I could add another thing, I would have loved for it to also have elements that make it look like an actual crypt with dark rooms and almost mausoleum like spaces with towering ceilings that make you feel small in the dark place, and coffin like exo pods that make you feel like this is a place people go to die in one form or another. Maybe even a room where upon first entering you cross a bridge spanning over what appears to be a bottomless black abyss only for the lights to snap on and reveal row upon row of exo pod stretching far off into the distance, giving a sense of just how many people fell into this hell. And with observation theaters you mentioned maybe they could show signs that not every exo was completely sane at this point with scratching all over the wall and doors, displaying an almost animalistic attempt at escaping this nightmare with some even spelling out words like HELL. And lastly your dream about the door could be a really compelling entry into the crypt proper cuss it almost seems like your trespassing on a place that has lied undisturbed for centuries making you question whether or not you really want to risk entering a place so many others did not come back from, and just what you maybe disturbing in the process.
Wow. This was genuinely one of the best d2 videos I’ve ever seen. I knew the lore of Clovis and the Deep Stone Crypt, in fact, that lore book was what brought me into d2 lore, but the connection of these complex philosophical questions to the matter brought a new point of view I never even thought about. The moral implications of Clovis always seemed interesting to me, but I’ve never seen them analysed as well as in your video essay. Keep up the great work!
this video is a beautifully crafted analysis, the anecdotal nature and soothing vibe when talking about some dark and very personal subject matters made this a introspective n genuine pleasure to listen to, ive used it as my audio book of choice over the last couple days
dsc was the best executed piece of destiny lore imo. I remember being a child and watching Byf videos about it in d1, never knowing i’d be raiding inside it a decade later
This isnt only a fantastic video exploring the lore of Destiny and the Deep Stone Crypt. This is an experience in its own right and a phenomenal essay on the very essence of personal identity. I've studied individual identities in historical contexts and how to understand them for past peoples. However, your work here blows everything I have ever read about identity out of the water with no barred competition I can think if. Fantastic work, I applaud you for your excellent writing, research, and ideas. But above that, congratulations on your transition. I am glad that you are more comfortable within your body and more at peace with your mind. Even if not perfect, someday it may be ❤
I love it when community members like yourself take it upon themselves to do a deep dive into lore like this. It's one of my favorite parts about Destiny. So, thank you so much for your effort in putting this together. It's greatly appreciated! My main is an EXO Warlock named Wynter. I liked the idea of adding a slight bit of mystery to him by not adding a number after his name. Suggesting that it was either lost somehow or that he is some form of prototype. Obviously none of that matters, but it's fun sometimes to role-play immersion in D2. ~EXO's are the Besto!
As someone who had a degree of anorexia, depression and sleep deprivation syndromes, the idea of Exos being a "perfect" human drawn me to them as my main char back in 2015, when i was 13 years old and started to became aware of my own mental health problems. When Beyond Light launched, i became SO attached to the lore surrounding Exos, DSC and all the body horror because it was basically a reflection of every problem that i, and many others had with, and the possibility to overcome them, despite everything that we had before, which i think is one of the core themes of Destiny personified (while also being a cool and horrifying concept). That being said, what a wonderful and well researched video, it almost single-handedly reignited my will to play the game again, please make more essays like that if you feel the need, specially on topics like the Witness philosophy, the Hive or Rhulk.
Seeing someone talk about my favorite game (from a lore perspective) with added on ideology, philosophy, and perspective, was a fun change of pace. Keep going! I love these videos.
this essay is beautiful it encapsulates so many visceral emotions and conundrums of being human. out imperfect perfection in a constant state of flux never being real yet never being fake. and i strongly relate to all the points brought up here, the split in my mind from when i was a different person from who i am today. the extreme memory leaks i contend with daily but still knowing who i am and knowing im not a new me, but that im a me whos always been however fractured and passed over i was. im glad to have spent time listening to you, your voice is beautiful and firm. thank you for giving me a moment of euphoria knowing im understood in some way, that i am in fact human.. or well.. conscious. again thank you this structures a lot of things ive thought of and felt.
I really wish there were more video essays like this abt the Destiny lore cuz there’s so much lore worth looking at in the context of it’s philosophical importance. Like the pujari grimoire, the Kentarch-3, etc… also this video is a fkn banger omg u deserve way more subs❗️
I humbly request you make more of these types of videos because this was seriously amazing! I’ve always known about the exo lore but I never really understood the deeper themes and implications. Great job!
Such an interesting perspective and retrospective of Exos, the Deep Stone Crypt, and Clovis Bray's depravity, as well as the ethical and philosophical questions that arise in regards to every facet of Exos. The inclusion of the Teletransportation Paradox was something I never even heard of before, but deeply intrigued given its relation to the topic of self-identity. Having an external perspective, even as a hypothetical, still paints this topic in a new light I don't think many people have really considered before. To this day I believe that the Journals of Clovis Bray I is by far Destiny's darkest writing, a mix of cosmic and existential horror combined with the science-fiction perspective of an egomaniac. It brings up the ethical concerns of the pursuit of immortality, and the price that must be paid to achieve the impossible--the cost of the self, the cost of everything. It also brings up a sort of "Ship of Theseus" paradigm in which the question of whether the vessel is still the original if all aspects are reconstructed over time with new parts; though the Exo's first iteration may contain their previous memories, it still brings a concern whether they are still the true self or an imitation because they mimic the body, the mind, and the self--not a true transference, but a copy before the original shuts down. I'm glad that this line of thought between us is shared. Having the experience I have with being transgender myself, seeing the dysphoria so familiar be amplified in such a horrifying way always sent shivers down my spine--knowing how intimate of a relationship I have with the discord and despair internally because of the external. If I'm not mistaken, this book (alongside Marasenna, the Books of Sorrow (TTK), Unveiling, among others) was written by Seth Dickinson. The feelings of the Exomind's anguish and suffering felt genuine, real, and oh so mortifying. Overall, an absolutely phenomenal video and essay with a variety of different perspectives, philosophical inquiries and thought process, and overviewing the true horrors brought by a man who sees himself a god. You instantly snagged a new subscriber and I hope nothing but the best for you. Thank you for reading this long comment and I hope you have a fantastic day/night/[insert time of day]!! 💖
I am so glad I found your channel. This video has fully articulated my exact suspicion and fear of Clovis Bray and the Vex in particular. The DSC journals scared the effing daylights out of me, they were genuinely written with a horror undertone in mind (the eating pork motif made me want to throw up once I managed to connect the literary motifs) - and I am so incredibly worried that the Vex are far more dangerous than the Witness. I feel like the Vex have been manipulating/simulation all events we are experiencing now and that the conflict between light/dark is part of their greater experimentation. I've been trying to write down my own notes on my massive suspicions that we still haven't seen the full consequences of the EXOmind project but you've articulated them so well. I'm so happy to be subscribed!!!!!!!
I remember playing Destiny vanilla when it first came out and feeling like there was no story at all. I don't play anymore but I'm so obsessed with destiny lore right now. And this video has taken the vex from mid tier to the top spot on my 'dreaded concepts in Destiny' list. so Thanks for that.
I love the lore in this franchise. I unironically read the grimoire in D1, people kinda thought I was a bit crazy for it, but the writing team has always been TOP NOTCH. Stumbling on that card about the Exos going to the field and killing all the people they've met is basically a core memory for me. There's even some poems and stuff hidden in there if I remember correctly. It would be great if the actual game dove deeper into the lore and history of the universe. I wish this stuff could come to the surface more, this game has a lot to say. It's a shame that it keeps getting bogged down by mediocre campaigns and a toxic seasonal live service platform.
I just want you to know that i just spent 2 days looking for this video after forgetting your channels name. This video is so amazing and i absolutely love it, please keep making content like this!
Thanks for this. Old Destiny head, gave it up after all my friends and clan quit. I like to follow the lore of the game still. Every other channel who’s done Deep Stone reads a card or two about Clovis Bray and then goes into raid mechanics fine for other people if they choose but I still like the lore of Destiny and believe it’s the last thing it’s got going for it.
An extremely eloquent essay. It reminded me of my love for this game's lore writing, but more than that, this might have genuinely changed the way I think about trans people for the rest of my life. I'd like to think I already was supportive, but you sharing your own experience really helps me empathize with what trans people feel. Personal growth is such a... process; I can connect to suddenly realizing that you've been internally suffering for a long time and were unable to recognize or even express that before. Although you mentioned that gender dysphoria is a controversial term, connecting the horror of lost humanity seen in the exo project with the discomfort experienced by someone pre-transition is a genius move and gives me an intellectual connection too. The following dive into human identity particularly affected me; in the solipsistic view, I cannot prove any concept of identity without being that person. So if we can't even prove identity, what kind of monster would I have to be to deny a trans person their own concepts of identity--to condemn them to a lifetime of suffering over something not necessarily meaningless but, in regards to my perspective on them, entirely baseless? Thank you so much for putting in the effort to organize and share your thoughts like this. Obviously, I don't expect your other videos to be like this one, but I'm admittedly eager to check out the rest of your channel too. 💙💖🤍
Deep Stone Crypt is still my favorite pieces of lore in the game. Everything surrounding around Clovis Bray and his intentions to become a god, and the path and the struggle that it would take to get there is so so fascinating. The lorewriters were so smart describing DER, clarity, vex radiolaria. It was just this perfect combination that told humanity can be just as evil as our enemies. If not more.
20:59 I think the creation of the Exo was tangential to The Witness's plan. Remember, Clovis himself was primarily concerned with extending his own life, with overcoming the frailties of his own form, with his own self-aggrandizement. Clovis was, I think, a candidate to be one of The Witness's Disciples. Everything the Witness did for Clovis was intended to feed Clovis's ego, manipulating him into being the perfect megalomaniacal servant who'd help usher humanity into the Witness's fold. I don't think the exo were intended to serve any other purpose, at least from the Witness's perspective. Perhaps they saw the exo as a possible army of foot soldiers for future use, but even still, I think the exo were secondary to the true goal of manipulating Clovis.
I totally agree that Clovis was probably being groomed as humanity’s disciple! I probably should have talked about that in retrospect. I’m less sure about the role of the exos but hopefully we get some more information in the final shape lore about the witness’ plans for their disciples
You've got a new subscriber, this video is beautiful, I remember after beyond light I got super into the lore and particularly the exos and the horror of it. Even made a power point presentation lmao, thank you for making such a perfect video for my favourite part of destiny lore💜
Finding this video has been a complete joy to me. It takes me back to 2015 when i was obsessed with collecting grimore cards and reading them; constantly on byfe(i think thats how you spell his name) videos. I acquired so much knowledge on the lore of vex, but mainly i was heavily intrigued by the hive. I fell off because i didn't like how bungie was changing destiny. However the lore will always have a place in my heart. 17 year old me just reading and reading, and then coming back to my friends online to tell them the new information i had learned. If i can say one thing its that bungie really popped off with their writing skills and world building talents. If it wasnt for destiny i wouldnt have met the amazing people i hold in my heart today. Although we dont speak as often; these were guys i met one night attempting to complete the VOG. Sheesh now im sad lol 😂
This was an incredible video. Although I love video essays, I usually find that I need to take breaks to regain my attention. This video was different though, I was hooked all the way through!
clovis: “what are you doing here?” maya: “i’m in your walls.” really great video!!! i’m glad youtube recommended this to me, going to be bingeing all of your videos. keep it up, you’re doing amazing
This is a very compelling argument you've made. Ironically, despite me transitioning around the time that Beyond Light launched, I never connected the topics of the Deep Stone Crypt's transhumanism to the transgender experience beyond a surface level. There were some moments where I was wondering where you were going with a philosophical argument, though bringing it all together through the lens of identity and transition was excellently done. I'll definitely be adding some Deep Stone Crypt tunes to my injection playlist, thanks in no small part to you lmao.
off topic but I so thought this person was bout to solo flawless deep stone crypt with a strand titan. I was wrong because they done crashed their sparrow and immediately got their friends on for crypt security I believe you have potential, o strand titan.
Thank you so much for covering my favorite part of destiny lore in such detail. As with many other commentators, there is something very deep that resonates with the whole story of wanting to upload yourself to a more...permanent physical form, and finally seeing something describe why one might view their body as flawed: What i always found even more useful, though, is how the descriptions of DER fit my firsthand experience of autism way better than body dysmorphia.
A really good way of summarizing and decomplicating both the reasons as to why the Exo bodies failed as well as your beautiful speech on identity and teleport thought experiment ( btw I apologize if it’s rude to “dumb it down” a lot of ideas and information was thrown at me and I am having a hard time knowing if I am correctly processing it.) would be the form the idea or body or whatever doesn’t matter as much as the belief that that form or idea is something the individual finds “correct”. A good example being the exos believed not eating or breathing is “incorrect” not just because the mind is telling them they are dead but imagine the thought of never being able to eat your favorite food or feel your fingers maneuver the mouse or controller as you play a game. Another good example is with the teleportation though experiment we may think of the other person as a separate entity but it’s my belief that if you share things with your double like memory or ideology or feelings or hobbies etc things beyond how you physically look the two of you make up the same person even if that double acts differently and lives a life or has different beliefs so long as you can find metaphysical points you agree on such as I want to treat others with respect then while the approach may be different you are the both of you are carrying what makes up your “identity”. My last example is the belief of gender mismatching the idea of being uncomfortable in your own body is definitely real and understandable just as how I am uncomfortable with being disabled or I am uncomfortable with the depressive thoughts I suffer from without medication and therapy but it can be said that while transgender technology is not perfect or that there may never be a perfect “cure” for things like cancer or disabilities that doesn’t really matter because as you said humans are inherently imperfect and rather than the physical shape a person takes even if factors change it is how you feel and the positive or negative support or environmental factors that matter.
I dont know if youll ever see this but I had to get this out. I might have come for the exo body horror essay, but I stayed and locked in for that last part. And I think it helped make me realize something about myself. And for that, thank you.
I thoroughly love all 4 main alien species that bungie has created here, and each of them have their own charms and threats and so on... But the Vex are my favorite and they're fucking terrifying. Great video!
My only criticism of this video is in its formatting and accessibility. While displaying a quote makes it simple to visually follow along and keep track of when and where a piece of information is coming from, it's tough when someone might be chosing (or unfortunately forced) to just listen to the content. It might be worth scripting in specification of when quotes start and stop for those that are not following along visually. For example you could script "quote '--insert quoted media--' end quote, --insert analysis--". I usually just listen to stuff and I would occasionally get lost in weather you were quoting or giving analysis, though I did catch up usually. Especially in stuff like this that can get pretty dense.
20 mins in, but this is soo good Alchemy, astro physics, and expert narration! I wish I found your channel sooner Edit: I've finished this video and I'm so glad I have. I had always heard about the link between the exos and the trans experience but now I understand it so much more and I'm thankful for it.
My theory as to why the Witness guided Clovis to Clarity is that the Witness was guiding him to becoming a Disciple, were he capable. It reminds me of Rhulk's story on Lubrae. Guess we'll find out more (hopefully) in the Final shape. Love the vid, btw.
The moment you went into detail about personal identity, it struck a cord. Akin to cognitive dissonance. I questioned myself whether I am doing the right thing, saying the right thing, or respecting my transgender friend’s existences. Even an in-law of mine who is transgender too, who is always wonderful to talk to. It kept me up halfway into the night, wondering about my own identity and how I want to be perceived from those who I care about, and those I view as friends. But after watching the end of the video, I know it’s not the end of the world. There is still time to improve, no matter how flawed we are. Sure we may strive perfection, but it’s never a rush. Through cooperation and respect to each other’s existences, big or small, high or low, we can achieve great things as a species. My apologies if this is going way out of topic, but considering how I felt when pondering the concept of identity, you have done great work. Backed up with evidence in context to the makings of the Exos, being relevant to this day. Just never thought a raid area have such a thought-provoking narrative. All in all, fantastic job.
How I always approach teleportation and the transfer of consciousness is the continuity is not disturbed and instead transfers and if it is disturbed the adverse effects vary depending on how long it’s been disturbed.
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call the temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal… Even in death I serve the Omnissiah.
genuinely incredible video long-form videos that put a large body of lore like this into perspective, and having it flatly compared to humanity outside of Destiny is just great work. Fastest sub+bell in the west. Take your time and keep stuff like this up.
57:22 Soma reference oh miy gawd existential horror right in my sphere of comprehension causing me to go into a mental breakdown of despair sadness and insanity
i reinstalled destiny 2 & hundreds of women flooded my dms, they said "wow, do you main solar titan??" at first i was afraid (i do not talk to women) Then, I began to understand this is the power of destiny 2, the game. This is what Bungie has been working towards all these years
Taniks was basically an exo in spirit with the number of times he’s come back for more punishment after we killed him, so becoming a real exo was pretty logical to me at least. I’m surprised he hasn’t become a scorn yet lol
You've put into words how I've felt about Exos since I learned that Exos are human minds transferred to mechanical bodies. Thank you for making this video ❤
I wouldn’t dismiss the vex being a type 3 civilisation either. They have existed since almost the beginning of the universe, and they can simulate billions of timelines, choosing the one which suits them best. They have entire machine worlds dedicated to computing. I find it unlikely they lack the ability to control entire galaxies, and the only reason they may not have done so is because their simulations to the end of time saw no benefit in it they also have the dankest of memes, to the point where we feeble humans can’t handle it
Destiny had so much potential to its universe. But, they squandered it to chase the emote and pay up shit. The world building had so much, but its trapped in a game that is more akin to mediocre with a cash shop, as opposed to the glory that is Warframe.
This video is overall perfect, I’m honestly disappointed of how bungie did DSC, it should’ve been a vex raid with fallen appearing in the first encounter trying to create Eliknsi Exos in a elevator encounter where we fight attack and berserker like Eliksni exos and when the elevator crashes down into the depths. us guardians encounter the crypts unspeakable experiments especially with bones of illegal subjects tested by Clovis and overly aggressive vex trying escape the crypt who were also tortured by Clovis bray, the other encounter would possibly be crypt security encounter except with a machine that turns vex into exos and we manage to escape it before it turns out guardians into exos. And the final boss should’ve been Clovis Bray who was in hiding and had gone insane. The final raid we got was just pure disappointment. But W vid
This is a fantastic video. I thought the lore leading into Beyond Light was incredible scifi and it really wish the leant in harder in the story then focusing on the fallen.
Come for the lore, stay for the existential philosophy, lol. Fantastic video! I found your conclusion regarding reductionism though, for lack of a better word, cope, lol. If you truly believe that there is no personal self, than Parfit's conclusion is the only rational way to look at it and rejecting it is basically just covering your ears and saying "blablablabla I can't hear you!". To me, realizing that in being empathetic to the distress of others implies knowing that there is a self to be distressed in the first place. Thus, along with many other reasons, I reject the reductionist view entirely. Just my view
The Mysterious Logbook is interesting, cause reading it closely, Clovis speaks of copies of conciousness, and doesn't seem so sure what is happening is actually a transfer; most notably, he refuses to wake up the dying Elsie, cause it would cause undue distress...but it's possible the distress would be to him, as it's possible that Elsie would remain alive like in the teleportation thought experiment it's possible that what would wake up from the Exo transfer would be a brain damaged Elsie, it still would invalidate the idea that a transfer, and not a copy happened; what's more, the Traveler tells Clovis that he is going to kill his family (in the form of the wolf dream), and in the DSC raid the weapons have inscriptions with the Exo names of his family, the same members the Traveler mentioned in the dream at least from the mysterious logbook perspective, Exos are copies of humans, not the human themselves; they are human, mind you, but the originals died in the process
While the lore surrounding exos in beyond light might not have been exactly what I expected, exos are still ultimately one of my favorite mysteries of the game, and to this day I'm disappointed that the raid titled "Deep Stone Crypt" barely explores the Deep Stone Crypt, in favor of an (admittedly very cool) space station sequence and..... taniks
This is a total nitpick, but I don't think Clovis ever communicated with the witness, not truly at least. I think he communicated with the winnower, the true voice of the darkness and the counterpart of the voice of the traveller (the gardener) he also talked to during his time dead on europa. The reason i don't think he communicated with the witness is that what the voice told/allowed him to do goes almost completely againt everything we know about the witness. From before, everything it did was part of destruction. trying to groom spesific people into massive killing machines (like rhulk, potentially nezerak, even eramis in a way), while with clovis it seemed to do the sword logic style evolving into stronger beings to become part of the final shape of the winnower, where only strong life persists. While the witness seeks the end of the universe in literal stasis, like it says "no more life. No more death". Of course there's still a lot of confusion about the difference between the winnower and the witness, and where their philosphies differ, because sometimes the witness seems to act like it embodies the sword logic, while other most times we see it act with complete indifference and its only goal is to do what it says it wants, which is the stasis bit.
Ended up asking some other people about it, main argument against your idea is the fact that stasis was most likely given by the black fleet, directly under the witness’s control. Maybe the witness wanted to have Clovis become a disciple, hard to tell what its motives were. Still wouldn’t count out the idea it was the winnower, as Unveiling and the Clovis’s journals were both written by Seth Dickinson.
This comment just turned into a lil personal trans rant, not too related to the exos themselves. Maybe I'm just lookin for some validation or shared experiences, but read on if you're down! ---------------------- I love the trans allegory. Ive been seeing more and more signs lately to start my transition (that I've been thinking of for years), and I'm so happy to see yet another sign hidden within my most played game of all time (since day one), then made apparent to me through your video analysis. I thank you very much for that, and I will of course be subbing and checking out your other videos because this one is really well done! I've been very slow to start transition, and I find it difficult and nonsensical as to why I've been that way. It seems to be because of the potential regret, the difficulty, the time commitment, or that I feel undeserving to be happy as my true self. Undeserving of happiness due to my inability to separate my current, significantly improved self from past mistakes made by a different me. Sometimes, feeling like transition is just a means to escape my demons. But if I'm not satisfied in my current body or feel like I could be much happier, then logically, it shouldn't matter leaving my current husk because I can only go up from where I'm at. One would imagine I'd get on it faster, right? I feel similar to earlier iterations of the exos, as if my body is dying, it's not mine, and I can't control or see myself the way I feel like I should be able to. I dont care for the way I look or feel, but instead of working to change it, I've let it go. I know that putting in the work and fighting through the hardships will likely make me happier and probably remove me from my unproductive funk/burnout that I've been stuck in for, at minimum, a year. A part of me feels like I can't start now because it's been too long, but the logical thing is to do just the opposite, start asap. If I know for sure, if I've been feeling alien in my own body, if I've wanted to switch up genders since childhood, I need to start now. I feel trapped in this body that has been crafted by someone else through societal expectation. I've been living through a lens that isn't mine, and I want to find out who I am instead of what everyone sees me as. I think this video is the last little push I need. I'm going to see if my insurance covers any part of the process right now. Thank you so much for the eye-opening experience and also the lore coverage! I am eternally grateful
I’m very glad and honored I could help! This reminds me a lot of thoughts, feelings, and fears I had before my transition. I wish you luck on your journey and hope it goes well!
This is amazing. Destiny is so thought invoking! Ive thought about how other view you and i came up with that everyone has many many many different forms because everyone you interact with views you entirely different then how you view yourself
Fantastic video! Immediately subscribed! 😅 I started playing Destiny around the time Taken King was out. My first character was (and still is) a fem exo hunter. I read the brief description and identified with them. Sort of a "doesn't know they're not cis yet" situation there. Fast forward to now and I am more comfortable with my identity than ever. Plus, playing as my hunter now is so much more of a gender affirming experience than ever. I'll be watching more of your content! Keep up the great work!
Being disabled, with chronic pain, I can understand the willingness to move one's consciousness in to a more resiliant frame of metal and paracausality. Due to the body dismorphia that accompanies it, I also intimatly understand what it feels like to be a stranger in your own body.
Looking in the mirror and seeing a face that no longer even looks human; even with no personal memories, its no surprise that Exo's minds were so difficult to nail down. Just reading some of the journal entries from the game, the Exo voulenteers were put through a living hell.
I totally feel it.
And then You remember than now with the dismorphia comes the darkness corruption destroying your mind to emerge a monster
I can relate. I'm also disabled. I'm paraplegic because of a spinal cord defect at birth called Spinal Bifida. God bless you! You're not alone. I'll keep you in my thoughts!
the trick you see, is you need administrative access to the motor functions. Sudo stop ouchies. Sudo bend knees. I will share my discoveries should I make any. I'm here with you.
Only 2 minutes in, but I just had this thought: Ghosts being able to choose Exos as Guardians has some interesting implications. 1, Ghosts/The Light consider Exos to be as alive as any Human. 2. Ghost are able to recognize a person from broken mechanical limbs and perhaps a head with an unrecoverable exomind once inside, and are able to not only rebuilt and reboot them, but truly *resurrect* them afterwards.
Mhmm mhmm, and remember Fellwinter? He wasn't an Exo. He wasn't human before and then turned into an Exo...he was a robot created by Rasputin. And he became a Guardian!!
@maimer1691 Felwinter was an Exo. He just wasn't created in the typical way.
His resurrection was a conscious decision by the Traveler. Felspring was specifically told to bring him back.
@@Cayde-6sHorn You're right, my wording was incorrect. I meant to say that he wasn't a traditional Exo like those that were once human.
@@maimer1691That's still ve4y fascinating! Even though we now know the realm of the mind and conscious thought belongs to the Darkness, somehow, a sufficiently advanced machine was deemed self-conscious by our paracausal entity.
i swear i saw it mentioned somewhere in the lore that the interior mechanisms of Exos are so complicated that only their Ghosts can understand how any of it works. idk if i'm misremembering but i swear i read that somewhere. could have something to do with the traveler being a machine god in itself. what better to understand a machine than an equally complex machine?
your videos are so fire. When I first started playing destiny I thought it was so weird how a game this mainstream seemed to be so obsessed with concepts of consciousness, free will, memory, and the alienation of the conscious mind from the body. Between guardian resurrection, Exo's, and the taken, it's a pervasive theme, and I was unsatisfied with the existing lore videos on it. Your overview of the topic was incredible, and I especially appreciated your perspective as it relates to being trans.
@@scottbrayton9484 trans? no thanks
I've argued for years that Destiny could be considered a horror game based off of a fraction of the things talked about in the lore. People really take for granted that had it not been for the Traveler and its sacrifice/granting us Ghosts, humanity would've died out painfully centuries ago.
Like, *just* the Fallen or Cabal would've been their own existential nightmare, but throw in the Hive, the Vex, the Taken, and the Witness, minus our space magic? Itd be like Hellraiser mixed with the Flood mixed with Lovecraft. Absolutely terrifying, but you're basically the only one talking about this angle of it.
Who was taking that for granted? But yeah, I've always thought a lot of the lore was terrifying, same with some of the implications of things in game such as being lost in time in VOG
@@MischieviousJirachi you'd apparently be very surprised by the perceptions of a lot of the community.
I agree, I just wish that this tone was shown in the game more. I know it's not that kind of game, and it's not rated M, but it would be much more interesting that way (imo)
I always say Destiny is a Grimdark setting with a shiny coat of optimism paint.
Don’t even get me STARTED on the Aphelion
i could never imagine making a video this long, nor write this thoughtfully, nor read out loud so clearly for almost 2 whole hours, this is an amazing piece of work
me neither
16:27 titan moment
sometimes strand titan makes me forget things can still kill you if you melee them lol
Classic case of the Titan Instinct.
A friend of mine (a titan main) stated "All Titans share a single braincell, and if you ever see a titan melee in a moment that seems odd or hazardous, it's because a Titan somewhere needed to melee and all react in kind."
I thought you were referring to the entire video for a second and I was going to say that’s relatable…like the clip is relatable but still
😂😂😂😂
Deep Stone Crypt:
Lore - “Holy shit this stuff is horrifying.”
Gameplay - “Yayyyyyy Taniks is back.”
Not gonna lie. Deep stone lullaby is such a beautiful song. Recalling what i knew about the song's inplication and what was to come made me cry before the video even started.
For people that enjoy the idea of questioning the morality of multiple copies of yourself & questioning your humanity, there’s a convenient horror game called SOMA that delves right into all of that
Cannot recommend Soma enough
Me: oh, this looks interesting, I like destiny and long form video essays
Me during: holy moly, I was not expecting a deep dive into theoretical phenomenology! As a theology PhD, it's quite a delight to see media analysis this deep. You just got a sub, great work!
This is the first video I've ever seen from you and I instantly added it to my playlist of favorite video essays.
This explains my feelings on the Deep Stone Crypt corner of Destiny's lore so perfectly its uncanny. I tried to express some of these feelings once but I could never fully explain them, but now you've finally done that for me and I can't thank you enough. It's like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders finally being able to pin these ideas I've been having and knowing that I'm not the only one who feels this way and geeks out about DSC so hard.
Instant subscribe :)
(Below is the time I tried to express my thoughts on DSC, it's a little lengthy)
As much as I love Deep Stone Crypt, I can’t help but be disappointed by it
Don’t get me wrong, it’s still in my top 3 favorite raids in the entire franchise. A fun, relatively easy raid with amazing set-pieces and even more amazing music. Not to mention the legendary sequence in orbit aboard the Morningstar. But it isn’t what I wanted. It isn’t The Crypt.
We’ve heard of this place of legend in the lore for years and gotten so little info around it; it was one of the biggest mysteries in all of Destiny. It was some mythic facility where the exos were born, all shrouded in a cloud of horror, mad science, and some nebulous, sinister secret. All of its concept art painted it as some tower standing among an endless, frozen wasteland. It’s left to the imagination what lies inside, or even how big the inside is. How deep does the crypt go? It’s almost scary in a certain way, and the mystery of it all primes our imagination for something awe inspiring. When the day finally came to raid the crypt, the music continued to feed our sense of wonder. Desolation and Athanasia perfectly capture the anticipation and awe of searching for this long lost place of legend.
But when we finally see the crypt, it doesn’t live up to these legends. It’s set up against the side of some icy cliffs and is shaped more like a bunker than a tower. A _much_ less striking visual than if it were towering high among a barren plain. And when we go inside, most of the rooms we see are relatively cramped and small. The Clarity Control set-piece starts to live up to expectations as some spacious room with a dark secret in the middle, influencing its environment in supernatural ways. But beyond that, the crypt lab returns to being enclosed. Of course, then we go to space and that’s amazing in its own right, but the Morningstar _isn’t_ the crypt.
The crypt is supposed to be this secret, dark lab of man-made horrors, science gone too far, and the existential horror of immortality, all realized in the scale and grandeur of the golden age that makes you stand in awe of how humans could have even built something like it. I wanted to see more of THAT, NOT go into space. I wish we would have gone deeper into the crypt and seen more amazing set-pieces like the exo assembly areas in Creation or the ravine of computers and databanks at Eternity in the bray exoscience labs. Even places mentioned in the lore, like the test chambers and observation theaters used by Clovis Bray and his experiments with clarity. I wanted to discover more of the unethical experiments and mad science hidden away deep beneath the ice. I wanted to fight more exoscience-type threats like Atraks. I wanted to be faced with the existentially terrifying questions posed by the existence of Exos and The Crypt in-game rather than just in lore entries. I wanted to have a boss battle with a giant Clovis-1 exo, dammit. _Anything_ could’ve been inside the crypt, but instead we just got Taniks.
I actually once had a dream about what the crypt could’ve been. I don’t remember much about it except for one particular part. I was walking through a blizzard near the entrance of the crypt. It felt like I was standing in a queue to enter the facility or something. It was dark, like how the arctic regions of earth are when they don’t see the sun for months at a time. The only illumination came from the floodlights around the crypt’s entrance; it felt I was seeing the crypt in its heyday, when it was fully operational. When I finally walked through the entrance, the area was much larger and more contemporary than the crypt entrance we see in-game. I remember there being windows along the perimeter of the entrance, almost like the front of a grocery store or something. I also distinctly remember looking towards one side of the room and seeing an aircraft of sorts being brought in from outside. This area felt like some kind of terminal, a waiting area to enter the rest of the facility. Then I looked at where I was going, and the dream became a nightmare. There was a door at the far end of the room, bathed in harsh white fluorescent lights, brighter than those illuminating the room I was in. It looked like one of those doors you see in the bray exoscience areas in-game but more metallic and with black/yellow warning patterns around it. I knew intrinsically it was the door that led further into the crypt. When I saw it, a sense of _overwhelming_ fear washed over me. Fear at what lie beyond the door, and fear that I was standing in line to face it. And then, for a second, the world began changing around me. The entire room I was in now looked to be post-collapse. All but a few of the lights had gone out, leaving areas that looked like they were under spotlights. Many of the interior surfaces blasted with frost, the metal itself freezing through. Under one of the lights I saw the aircraft from before, now crumpled and covered in ice. The only thing that hadn’t changed was the door, still pristine as ever and washing it’s harsh fluorescent light over the rest of the entrance, casting long shadows across the snow. It was inviting me in.
Despite only remembering that small moment of my dream, I think it perfectly captured what I was looking for in the Deep Stone Crypt and what the in-game version lacked. Dread. Dread at the unknown nature of it all, dread at the sheer monumentality of everything, dread at the mind-breaking idea of immortality and copying your very being, and dread at the inevitable discovery of the beautiful, horrific things that lie beyond that door.
Awe-inspiring, curiosity-piquing, mind-shattering dread.
@@A-with-the-J this by far the best interpretation of the expectations I had for the reveal of the deep stone crypt.
But if I could add another thing, I would have loved for it to also have elements that make it look like an actual crypt with dark rooms and almost mausoleum like spaces with towering ceilings that make you feel small in the dark place, and coffin like exo pods that make you feel like this is a place people go to die in one form or another.
Maybe even a room where upon first entering you cross a bridge spanning over what appears to be a bottomless black abyss only for the lights to snap on and reveal row upon row of exo pod stretching far off into the distance, giving a sense of just how many people fell into this hell.
And with observation theaters you mentioned maybe they could show signs that not every exo was completely sane at this point with scratching all over the wall and doors, displaying an almost animalistic attempt at escaping this nightmare with some even spelling out words like HELL.
And lastly your dream about the door could be a really compelling entry into the crypt proper cuss it almost seems like your trespassing on a place that has lied undisturbed for centuries making you question whether or not you really want to risk entering a place so many others did not come back from, and just what you maybe disturbing in the process.
Wow. This was genuinely one of the best d2 videos I’ve ever seen. I knew the lore of Clovis and the Deep Stone Crypt, in fact, that lore book was what brought me into d2 lore, but the connection of these complex philosophical questions to the matter brought a new point of view I never even thought about. The moral implications of Clovis always seemed interesting to me, but I’ve never seen them analysed as well as in your video essay. Keep up the great work!
this video is a beautifully crafted analysis, the anecdotal nature and soothing vibe when talking about some dark and very personal subject matters made this a introspective n genuine pleasure to listen to, ive used it as my audio book of choice over the last couple days
dsc was the best executed piece of destiny lore imo. I remember being a child and watching Byf videos about it in d1, never knowing i’d be raiding inside it a decade later
This isnt only a fantastic video exploring the lore of Destiny and the Deep Stone Crypt. This is an experience in its own right and a phenomenal essay on the very essence of personal identity. I've studied individual identities in historical contexts and how to understand them for past peoples. However, your work here blows everything I have ever read about identity out of the water with no barred competition I can think if. Fantastic work, I applaud you for your excellent writing, research, and ideas. But above that, congratulations on your transition. I am glad that you are more comfortable within your body and more at peace with your mind. Even if not perfect, someday it may be ❤
I love it when community members like yourself take it upon themselves to do a deep dive into lore like this. It's one of my favorite parts about Destiny. So, thank you so much for your effort in putting this together. It's greatly appreciated! My main is an EXO Warlock named Wynter. I liked the idea of adding a slight bit of mystery to him by not adding a number after his name. Suggesting that it was either lost somehow or that he is some form of prototype. Obviously none of that matters, but it's fun sometimes to role-play immersion in D2. ~EXO's are the Besto!
As someone who had a degree of anorexia, depression and sleep deprivation syndromes, the idea of Exos being a "perfect" human drawn me to them as my main char back in 2015, when i was 13 years old and started to became aware of my own mental health problems.
When Beyond Light launched, i became SO attached to the lore surrounding Exos, DSC and all the body horror because it was basically a reflection of every problem that i, and many others had with, and the possibility to overcome them, despite everything that we had before, which i think is one of the core themes of Destiny personified (while also being a cool and horrifying concept).
That being said, what a wonderful and well researched video, it almost single-handedly reignited my will to play the game again, please make more essays like that if you feel the need, specially on topics like the Witness philosophy, the Hive or Rhulk.
3:10 the most terrifying part is that this tower is very similar to the one we see in the Final Shape trailer, with the top resembling the Witness
Oh God I just realized that
Seeing someone talk about my favorite game (from a lore perspective) with added on ideology, philosophy, and perspective, was a fun change of pace. Keep going! I love these videos.
this essay is beautiful it encapsulates so many visceral emotions and conundrums of being human. out imperfect perfection in a constant state of flux never being real yet never being fake. and i strongly relate to all the points brought up here, the split in my mind from when i was a different person from who i am today. the extreme memory leaks i contend with daily but still knowing who i am and knowing im not a new me, but that im a me whos always been however fractured and passed over i was. im glad to have spent time listening to you, your voice is beautiful and firm. thank you for giving me a moment of euphoria knowing im understood in some way, that i am in fact human.. or well.. conscious.
again thank you this structures a lot of things ive thought of and felt.
I really wish there were more video essays like this abt the Destiny lore cuz there’s so much lore worth looking at in the context of it’s philosophical importance. Like the pujari grimoire, the Kentarch-3, etc… also this video is a fkn banger omg u deserve way more subs❗️
I dunno Thrall come out of holes and go RAAAAAHH that’s pretty scary
Cried after reading this it’s too scary
No no you got a point
I humbly request you make more of these types of videos because this was seriously amazing! I’ve always known about the exo lore but I never really understood the deeper themes and implications. Great job!
i knew i had a good reason to pick Exo for my Titan. i loved this
"Vex are weak"
*Nervously sweats while getting my ass slapped by literally every type of vex enemy*
Such an interesting perspective and retrospective of Exos, the Deep Stone Crypt, and Clovis Bray's depravity, as well as the ethical and philosophical questions that arise in regards to every facet of Exos. The inclusion of the Teletransportation Paradox was something I never even heard of before, but deeply intrigued given its relation to the topic of self-identity. Having an external perspective, even as a hypothetical, still paints this topic in a new light I don't think many people have really considered before.
To this day I believe that the Journals of Clovis Bray I is by far Destiny's darkest writing, a mix of cosmic and existential horror combined with the science-fiction perspective of an egomaniac. It brings up the ethical concerns of the pursuit of immortality, and the price that must be paid to achieve the impossible--the cost of the self, the cost of everything. It also brings up a sort of "Ship of Theseus" paradigm in which the question of whether the vessel is still the original if all aspects are reconstructed over time with new parts; though the Exo's first iteration may contain their previous memories, it still brings a concern whether they are still the true self or an imitation because they mimic the body, the mind, and the self--not a true transference, but a copy before the original shuts down. I'm glad that this line of thought between us is shared.
Having the experience I have with being transgender myself, seeing the dysphoria so familiar be amplified in such a horrifying way always sent shivers down my spine--knowing how intimate of a relationship I have with the discord and despair internally because of the external. If I'm not mistaken, this book (alongside Marasenna, the Books of Sorrow (TTK), Unveiling, among others) was written by Seth Dickinson. The feelings of the Exomind's anguish and suffering felt genuine, real, and oh so mortifying.
Overall, an absolutely phenomenal video and essay with a variety of different perspectives, philosophical inquiries and thought process, and overviewing the true horrors brought by a man who sees himself a god. You instantly snagged a new subscriber and I hope nothing but the best for you. Thank you for reading this long comment and I hope you have a fantastic day/night/[insert time of day]!! 💖
A "girl playing as titan in the backgroud" will forever be my favorite kind of destiny content.
Ikr? Goes together like peanut butter and jelly
I am so glad I found your channel. This video has fully articulated my exact suspicion and fear of Clovis Bray and the Vex in particular. The DSC journals scared the effing daylights out of me, they were genuinely written with a horror undertone in mind (the eating pork motif made me want to throw up once I managed to connect the literary motifs) - and I am so incredibly worried that the Vex are far more dangerous than the Witness. I feel like the Vex have been manipulating/simulation all events we are experiencing now and that the conflict between light/dark is part of their greater experimentation. I've been trying to write down my own notes on my massive suspicions that we still haven't seen the full consequences of the EXOmind project but you've articulated them so well.
I'm so happy to be subscribed!!!!!!!
I remember playing Destiny vanilla when it first came out and feeling like there was no story at all. I don't play anymore but I'm so obsessed with destiny lore right now. And this video has taken the vex from mid tier to the top spot on my 'dreaded concepts in Destiny' list. so Thanks for that.
The idea that you are so underrated is crazy for me… + your voice is crazy nice to hear.
"babe wake up, new eforme 2 hour long destiny video!!!"
I love the lore in this franchise. I unironically read the grimoire in D1, people kinda thought I was a bit crazy for it, but the writing team has always been TOP NOTCH. Stumbling on that card about the Exos going to the field and killing all the people they've met is basically a core memory for me. There's even some poems and stuff hidden in there if I remember correctly. It would be great if the actual game dove deeper into the lore and history of the universe. I wish this stuff could come to the surface more, this game has a lot to say. It's a shame that it keeps getting bogged down by mediocre campaigns and a toxic seasonal live service platform.
I just want you to know that i just spent 2 days looking for this video after forgetting your channels name. This video is so amazing and i absolutely love it, please keep making content like this!
Thanks for this. Old Destiny head, gave it up after all my friends and clan quit. I like to follow the lore of the game still. Every other channel who’s done Deep Stone reads a card or two about Clovis Bray and then goes into raid mechanics fine for other people if they choose but I still like the lore of Destiny and believe it’s the last thing it’s got going for it.
An extremely eloquent essay. It reminded me of my love for this game's lore writing, but more than that, this might have genuinely changed the way I think about trans people for the rest of my life. I'd like to think I already was supportive, but you sharing your own experience really helps me empathize with what trans people feel. Personal growth is such a... process; I can connect to suddenly realizing that you've been internally suffering for a long time and were unable to recognize or even express that before. Although you mentioned that gender dysphoria is a controversial term, connecting the horror of lost humanity seen in the exo project with the discomfort experienced by someone pre-transition is a genius move and gives me an intellectual connection too. The following dive into human identity particularly affected me; in the solipsistic view, I cannot prove any concept of identity without being that person. So if we can't even prove identity, what kind of monster would I have to be to deny a trans person their own concepts of identity--to condemn them to a lifetime of suffering over something not necessarily meaningless but, in regards to my perspective on them, entirely baseless?
Thank you so much for putting in the effort to organize and share your thoughts like this. Obviously, I don't expect your other videos to be like this one, but I'm admittedly eager to check out the rest of your channel too. 💙💖🤍
Deep Stone Crypt is still my favorite pieces of lore in the game. Everything surrounding around Clovis Bray and his intentions to become a god, and the path and the struggle that it would take to get there is so so fascinating. The lorewriters were so smart describing DER, clarity, vex radiolaria. It was just this perfect combination that told humanity can be just as evil as our enemies. If not more.
girl this video is just, so good, seriously so amazing. thank you for making it
20:59 I think the creation of the Exo was tangential to The Witness's plan. Remember, Clovis himself was primarily concerned with extending his own life, with overcoming the frailties of his own form, with his own self-aggrandizement. Clovis was, I think, a candidate to be one of The Witness's Disciples. Everything the Witness did for Clovis was intended to feed Clovis's ego, manipulating him into being the perfect megalomaniacal servant who'd help usher humanity into the Witness's fold. I don't think the exo were intended to serve any other purpose, at least from the Witness's perspective. Perhaps they saw the exo as a possible army of foot soldiers for future use, but even still, I think the exo were secondary to the true goal of manipulating Clovis.
I totally agree that Clovis was probably being groomed as humanity’s disciple! I probably should have talked about that in retrospect. I’m less sure about the role of the exos but hopefully we get some more information in the final shape lore about the witness’ plans for their disciples
You've got a new subscriber, this video is beautiful, I remember after beyond light I got super into the lore and particularly the exos and the horror of it. Even made a power point presentation lmao, thank you for making such a perfect video for my favourite part of destiny lore💜
Finding this video has been a complete joy to me. It takes me back to 2015 when i was obsessed with collecting grimore cards and reading them; constantly on byfe(i think thats how you spell his name) videos. I acquired so much knowledge on the lore of vex, but mainly i was heavily intrigued by the hive. I fell off because i didn't like how bungie was changing destiny. However the lore will always have a place in my heart. 17 year old me just reading and reading, and then coming back to my friends online to tell them the new information i had learned. If i can say one thing its that bungie really popped off with their writing skills and world building talents. If it wasnt for destiny i wouldnt have met the amazing people i hold in my heart today. Although we dont speak as often; these were guys i met one night attempting to complete the VOG. Sheesh now im sad lol 😂
This was an incredible video. Although I love video essays, I usually find that I need to take breaks to regain my attention. This video was different though, I was hooked all the way through!
clovis: “what are you doing here?”
maya: “i’m in your walls.”
really great video!!! i’m glad youtube recommended this to me, going to be bingeing all of your videos. keep it up, you’re doing amazing
This is a very compelling argument you've made. Ironically, despite me transitioning around the time that Beyond Light launched, I never connected the topics of the Deep Stone Crypt's transhumanism to the transgender experience beyond a surface level. There were some moments where I was wondering where you were going with a philosophical argument, though bringing it all together through the lens of identity and transition was excellently done. I'll definitely be adding some Deep Stone Crypt tunes to my injection playlist, thanks in no small part to you lmao.
off topic but I so thought this person was bout to solo flawless deep stone crypt with a strand titan. I was wrong because they done crashed their sparrow and immediately got their friends on for crypt security
I believe you have potential, o strand titan.
also why were the people at destiny actually cooking with this science fiction
Thank you so much for covering my favorite part of destiny lore in such detail. As with many other commentators, there is something very deep that resonates with the whole story of wanting to upload yourself to a more...permanent physical form, and finally seeing something describe why one might view their body as flawed:
What i always found even more useful, though, is how the descriptions of DER fit my firsthand experience of autism way better than body dysmorphia.
A really good way of summarizing and decomplicating both the reasons as to why the Exo bodies failed as well as your beautiful speech on identity and teleport thought experiment ( btw I apologize if it’s rude to “dumb it down” a lot of ideas and information was thrown at me and I am having a hard time knowing if I am correctly processing it.) would be the form the idea or body or whatever doesn’t matter as much as the belief that that form or idea is something the individual finds “correct”. A good example being the exos believed not eating or breathing is “incorrect” not just because the mind is telling them they are dead but imagine the thought of never being able to eat your favorite food or feel your fingers maneuver the mouse or controller as you play a game. Another good example is with the teleportation though experiment we may think of the other person as a separate entity but it’s my belief that if you share things with your double like memory or ideology or feelings or hobbies etc things beyond how you physically look the two of you make up the same person even if that double acts differently and lives a life or has different beliefs so long as you can find metaphysical points you agree on such as I want to treat others with respect then while the approach may be different you are the both of you are carrying what makes up your “identity”. My last example is the belief of gender mismatching the idea of being uncomfortable in your own body is definitely real and understandable just as how I am uncomfortable with being disabled or I am uncomfortable with the depressive thoughts I suffer from without medication and therapy but it can be said that while transgender technology is not perfect or that there may never be a perfect “cure” for things like cancer or disabilities that doesn’t really matter because as you said humans are inherently imperfect and rather than the physical shape a person takes even if factors change it is how you feel and the positive or negative support or environmental factors that matter.
I dont know if youll ever see this but I had to get this out.
I might have come for the exo body horror essay, but I stayed and locked in for that last part. And I think it helped make me realize something about myself. And for that, thank you.
I thoroughly love all 4 main alien species that bungie has created here, and each of them have their own charms and threats and so on...
But the Vex are my favorite and they're fucking terrifying. Great video!
My only criticism of this video is in its formatting and accessibility. While displaying a quote makes it simple to visually follow along and keep track of when and where a piece of information is coming from, it's tough when someone might be chosing (or unfortunately forced) to just listen to the content. It might be worth scripting in specification of when quotes start and stop for those that are not following along visually. For example you could script "quote '--insert quoted media--' end quote, --insert analysis--". I usually just listen to stuff and I would occasionally get lost in weather you were quoting or giving analysis, though I did catch up usually. Especially in stuff like this that can get pretty dense.
Finally getting to come back and finish this video. What an incredible watch; your hard work shines through. Definitely earned my sub
20 mins in, but this is soo good
Alchemy, astro physics, and expert narration! I wish I found your channel sooner
Edit: I've finished this video and I'm so glad I have. I had always heard about the link between the exos and the trans experience but now I understand it so much more and I'm thankful for it.
My theory as to why the Witness guided Clovis to Clarity is that the Witness was guiding him to becoming a Disciple, were he capable. It reminds me of Rhulk's story on Lubrae. Guess we'll find out more (hopefully) in the Final shape.
Love the vid, btw.
underrated video. also love the username lore lol
I love this! It`s your coolest video yet from the summary to your insights it`s clear you thought about this a lot and its very well explained!
This is the best analysis video I've seen in a while.
Incredible. I found you randomly scrolling. You deserve a SUB!
Every time I hear that opening piano note.....chills....so good, I will always love Deep Stone Crypt. All time favorite raid ever made.
"Raid", surely feels more like a Dungeon
@@namenotfound2456 How so?
@@aresgodofwar7401 it always felt like a dungeon to me, don't know why
@@namenotfound2456 I respect that answer 💪
The moment you went into detail about personal identity, it struck a cord. Akin to cognitive dissonance. I questioned myself whether I am doing the right thing, saying the right thing, or respecting my transgender friend’s existences. Even an in-law of mine who is transgender too, who is always wonderful to talk to. It kept me up halfway into the night, wondering about my own identity and how I want to be perceived from those who I care about, and those I view as friends. But after watching the end of the video, I know it’s not the end of the world. There is still time to improve, no matter how flawed we are. Sure we may strive perfection, but it’s never a rush. Through cooperation and respect to each other’s existences, big or small, high or low, we can achieve great things as a species. My apologies if this is going way out of topic, but considering how I felt when pondering the concept of identity, you have done great work. Backed up with evidence in context to the makings of the Exos, being relevant to this day. Just never thought a raid area have such a thought-provoking narrative. All in all, fantastic job.
No apology needed, fantastic comment
deep stone crypt has been my favorite lore since we first heard about it. special to me cuz my first ever character even on d1 was an Exo.
When you know almost everything lore there is but still find This fun to watch
How I always approach teleportation and the transfer of consciousness is the continuity is not disturbed and instead transfers and if it is disturbed the adverse effects vary depending on how long it’s been disturbed.
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
I craved the strength and certainty of steel.
I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine.
Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you.
One day the crude biomass you call the temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you.
But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal… Even in death I serve the Omnissiah.
genuinely incredible video
long-form videos that put a large body of lore like this into perspective, and having it flatly compared to humanity outside of Destiny is just great work. Fastest sub+bell in the west. Take your time and keep stuff like this up.
Holy crap are you the Destiny universe Wendigoon? This video was great!
57:22 Soma reference oh miy gawd existential horror right in my sphere of comprehension causing me to go into a mental breakdown of despair sadness and insanity
Playing lullaby brings back so many memories. I love destiny music.
Incredible video! Thanks for putting all this work in :)
i reinstalled destiny 2 & hundreds of women flooded my dms, they said "wow, do you main solar titan??" at first i was afraid (i do not talk to women) Then, I began to understand this is the power of destiny 2, the game. This is what Bungie has been working towards all these years
very well put together vid! I hope your channel blows up
Ok but does this answer why the hell we need to fight taniks again
Taniks was basically an exo in spirit with the number of times he’s come back for more punishment after we killed him, so becoming a real exo was pretty logical to me at least. I’m surprised he hasn’t become a scorn yet lol
@@eforme that’s my theory for the final shape raid
You've put into words how I've felt about Exos since I learned that Exos are human minds transferred to mechanical bodies.
Thank you for making this video ❤
7 minutes in & already a fire video. Great job
For some reason I understand everything you’re saying. It’s your delivery. Crystal clear.
so long as you don't mind the heavy nasal quality, yeah
@@xXx_Regulus_xXxfacts lmao
This video is awesome, this explored some amazing concepts and angles i never have looked at destiny from
I wouldn’t dismiss the vex being a type 3 civilisation either. They have existed since almost the beginning of the universe, and they can simulate billions of timelines, choosing the one which suits them best. They have entire machine worlds dedicated to computing. I find it unlikely they lack the ability to control entire galaxies, and the only reason they may not have done so is because their simulations to the end of time saw no benefit in it
they also have the dankest of memes, to the point where we feeble humans can’t handle it
Destiny had so much potential to its universe. But, they squandered it to chase the emote and pay up shit. The world building had so much, but its trapped in a game that is more akin to mediocre with a cash shop, as opposed to the glory that is Warframe.
Out of everything in Destiny, hearing the howling winds that you can hear very brief sounds of screaming was the scariest thing to me.
18:19 the force of the witness is akin to the bene jesserit from dune
This video is overall perfect, I’m honestly disappointed of how bungie did DSC, it should’ve been a vex raid with fallen appearing in the first encounter trying to create Eliknsi Exos in a elevator encounter where we fight attack and berserker like Eliksni exos and when the elevator crashes down into the depths. us guardians encounter the crypts unspeakable experiments especially with bones of illegal subjects tested by Clovis and overly aggressive vex trying escape the crypt who were also tortured by Clovis bray, the other encounter would possibly be crypt security encounter except with a machine that turns vex into exos and we manage to escape it before it turns out guardians into exos. And the final boss should’ve been Clovis Bray who was in hiding and had gone insane. The final raid we got was just pure disappointment. But W vid
Ive been interested in the lore of this game for so long, I'm surprised I haven't found your channel until just now, but Im happy to be here :)
This is a fantastic video.
I thought the lore leading into Beyond Light was incredible scifi and it really wish the leant in harder in the story then focusing on the fallen.
Come for the lore, stay for the existential philosophy, lol. Fantastic video! I found your conclusion regarding reductionism though, for lack of a better word, cope, lol. If you truly believe that there is no personal self, than Parfit's conclusion is the only rational way to look at it and rejecting it is basically just covering your ears and saying "blablablabla I can't hear you!". To me, realizing that in being empathetic to the distress of others implies knowing that there is a self to be distressed in the first place. Thus, along with many other reasons, I reject the reductionist view entirely. Just my view
The Mysterious Logbook is interesting, cause reading it closely, Clovis speaks of copies of conciousness, and doesn't seem so sure what is happening is actually a transfer; most notably, he refuses to wake up the dying Elsie, cause it would cause undue distress...but it's possible the distress would be to him, as it's possible that Elsie would remain alive like in the teleportation thought experiment
it's possible that what would wake up from the Exo transfer would be a brain damaged Elsie, it still would invalidate the idea that a transfer, and not a copy happened; what's more, the Traveler tells Clovis that he is going to kill his family (in the form of the wolf dream), and in the DSC raid the weapons have inscriptions with the Exo names of his family, the same members the Traveler mentioned in the dream
at least from the mysterious logbook perspective, Exos are copies of humans, not the human themselves; they are human, mind you, but the originals died in the process
The topic of teletransportantion here reminds me of the consciousness transfer in SOMA, incredibly interesting
Why does the Exo in the thumbnail look so thicc lol
Thicc bait
It beckoned me
Touch grass
@@fotiacruz194is he wrong
elsie bray clickbait
Very insightful video on a subject I’ve been fascinated with for years. Somebody just got a new subscriber.
While the lore surrounding exos in beyond light might not have been exactly what I expected, exos are still ultimately one of my favorite mysteries of the game, and to this day I'm disappointed that the raid titled "Deep Stone Crypt" barely explores the Deep Stone Crypt, in favor of an (admittedly very cool) space station sequence and..... taniks
People in 2000: In 2024 we’ll have flying cars
People in 2024: The exos relate to the trans experience
Destiny lore is so cool man it's such a shame the game doesn't do lore differently so everyone can experience it
Honestly such a great video essay.
Fell asleep listening to this video, 10/10 would do again. Definitely interesting to listen to both awake and asleep
Your video popped into my recommended and I can’t help but noticed the organic compound that appeared after your name
Nice
This is a total nitpick, but I don't think Clovis ever communicated with the witness, not truly at least. I think he communicated with the winnower, the true voice of the darkness and the counterpart of the voice of the traveller (the gardener) he also talked to during his time dead on europa.
The reason i don't think he communicated with the witness is that what the voice told/allowed him to do goes almost completely againt everything we know about the witness. From before, everything it did was part of destruction. trying to groom spesific people into massive killing machines (like rhulk, potentially nezerak, even eramis in a way), while with clovis it seemed to do the sword logic style evolving into stronger beings to become part of the final shape of the winnower, where only strong life persists.
While the witness seeks the end of the universe in literal stasis, like it says "no more life. No more death". Of course there's still a lot of confusion about the difference between the winnower and the witness, and where their philosphies differ, because sometimes the witness seems to act like it embodies the sword logic, while other most times we see it act with complete indifference and its only goal is to do what it says it wants, which is the stasis bit.
I totally agree with your idea, great way of thinking about it
Ended up asking some other people about it, main argument against your idea is the fact that stasis was most likely given by the black fleet, directly under the witness’s control. Maybe the witness wanted to have Clovis become a disciple, hard to tell what its motives were. Still wouldn’t count out the idea it was the winnower, as Unveiling and the Clovis’s journals were both written by Seth Dickinson.
Damn, girl. I just discovered your channel, surprised you aren't bigger. Subbed.
This comment just turned into a lil personal trans rant, not too related to the exos themselves. Maybe I'm just lookin for some validation or shared experiences, but read on if you're down!
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I love the trans allegory. Ive been seeing more and more signs lately to start my transition (that I've been thinking of for years), and I'm so happy to see yet another sign hidden within my most played game of all time (since day one), then made apparent to me through your video analysis. I thank you very much for that, and I will of course be subbing and checking out your other videos because this one is really well done! I've been very slow to start transition, and I find it difficult and nonsensical as to why I've been that way. It seems to be because of the potential regret, the difficulty, the time commitment, or that I feel undeserving to be happy as my true self. Undeserving of happiness due to my inability to separate my current, significantly improved self from past mistakes made by a different me. Sometimes, feeling like transition is just a means to escape my demons. But if I'm not satisfied in my current body or feel like I could be much happier, then logically, it shouldn't matter leaving my current husk because I can only go up from where I'm at. One would imagine I'd get on it faster, right? I feel similar to earlier iterations of the exos, as if my body is dying, it's not mine, and I can't control or see myself the way I feel like I should be able to. I dont care for the way I look or feel, but instead of working to change it, I've let it go. I know that putting in the work and fighting through the hardships will likely make me happier and probably remove me from my unproductive funk/burnout that I've been stuck in for, at minimum, a year. A part of me feels like I can't start now because it's been too long, but the logical thing is to do just the opposite, start asap. If I know for sure, if I've been feeling alien in my own body, if I've wanted to switch up genders since childhood, I need to start now. I feel trapped in this body that has been crafted by someone else through societal expectation. I've been living through a lens that isn't mine, and I want to find out who I am instead of what everyone sees me as. I think this video is the last little push I need. I'm going to see if my insurance covers any part of the process right now. Thank you so much for the eye-opening experience and also the lore coverage! I am eternally grateful
I’m very glad and honored I could help! This reminds me a lot of thoughts, feelings, and fears I had before my transition. I wish you luck on your journey and hope it goes well!
@@eforme Thank you so much! It feels great to know that I'm not alone! :D
This is amazing. Destiny is so thought invoking! Ive thought about how other view you and i came up with that everyone has many many many different forms because everyone you interact with views you entirely different then how you view yourself
Thanks for the 1hr 52 minute video. I Love D Lore and I appreciate the time you put into the video …new sub
the goat is back ,,,
Fantastic video! Immediately subscribed! 😅
I started playing Destiny around the time Taken King was out. My first character was (and still is) a fem exo hunter. I read the brief description and identified with them. Sort of a "doesn't know they're not cis yet" situation there. Fast forward to now and I am more comfortable with my identity than ever. Plus, playing as my hunter now is so much more of a gender affirming experience than ever.
I'll be watching more of your content! Keep up the great work!
9:23 im glad im not the only one who runs into the wall