I agree with all of this. I'm an old head player myself who started with the 5th mix. I've always been a no bar type player but that's just because I like it (I tend to freestyle more often as well). But even I have enough sense (especially after playing some of the newer songs) that if you want to be the best you HAVE to use the bar. I'm pretty much capped at songs around 12 and 13 because of not using bar. Just play the game and have fun people! This was a great video. Thanks!
Modern high level charts in DDR, ITG tech, and Pump left this bar conversation behind years ago. The people who still complain about this have no idea how the games have evolved in both difficulty and chart style.
In my country in our community the big deal about The bar was, like if you play with it "you're not the Elite", and a lot of local championships was played No bar only, you could use one, but the crowd would judge you for doing so. That was 10 years ago. Now no one cares, and shouldn't care at all. Play as you wish, but don't judge others of their playstyle. Peace ✌️
No bar player here that started 3 years ago. In ddr i can pas 16's. Im working on 17's now with 4 passed at the moment. Just let people play the game how they want. Unless your really trying to be the super duper best in the world then just enjoy it the way you like. I started this just to loose weight. Yes i like to improve my speed and scores but as long as everyone enjoys it then who cares? Let's just enjoy the game together.
Yeah I remember the Barguments back in the day. Admittedly, I was in the "No bar" camp but converted pretty fast with ITG and once DDR A hit the states. And what you and a lot of other people have said in the comments, times change and the games and players have evolved. I'm lucky enough to have not heard anything negative about using the bar in the past 5 or 6 years. It's become so widely accepted where I'm at and where I travel to. So much so that when I tell old players who are coming back into the scene that using the bar has become the norm, they instantly adopt it into their playing style. Also, people shouldn't care that much. Whether you bar or no bar, just play the freakin' game lol.
It's funny how people are still arguing about this 20+ years later. I stopped playing around 2011 because of lower back problems, and for my first few years I was strictly a no-bar player. Then I started to use the bar when I started attempting harder songs like Paranoia Survivor and MAX300. Then ITG came out and I became an almost full-time bar user for Single play (I played Doubles on occasion, and the bar was just too restrictive so I never used it on Doubles). I've always believed that new players should learn without the bar first, as it helps build leg strength, balance, and coordination. Then, once they build their skills and start taking on harder content, that's when they should start using the bar if they so choose.
great video !! I'm very new to DDR and ITG and I've made friends with both types of players, sad that people care so much about others' personal preferences
I have played off and on since 2002(even got to play one of the few US 1st Mix cabs) and the bar has always been a thing. I didn't use it immediately, but it's natural to gravitate towards it to pass harder stuff, especially so in doubles play. Within the playing community locally it was never an issue, some people would challenge themselves to no-bar, but most were chasing after scores or clears. I do recognize now, though, that I and many others were relying too heavily on assistance to clear stuff or bump the grade a little bit higher when the right training method would have been to work on cleaner technique at lower difficulty and slower speed mods. And the bar does factor into that some of the time, it gives you more leeway to flail through something you haven't learned No-bar was also more of a thing because home setups were less elaborate. In college we did have drunk Stepmania parties using those foam-filled Red Octane softpads, anz that's the kind of thing you adapt to. It makes sense to play at the arcade the way you play at home. The last time it provoked comment around me, though, was 2021, in a barcade. The guy was on a date and started making a fuss about me not really playing. The girl he was with wanted him to stop and he just wouldn't. I didn't say anything but the incident has lingered and I think the next time(ha) I would turn to the girl and be like "is this man bothering you".
My stance is this: if you feel the song is too hard or you're too tired, then use the bar! Or, get this, just use the bar just because! I used to be no bar, but with the newer songs? No way I'm not playing without the bar!
I started with 5thMIX and a plastic pad on the PS1 at home, so I never had a bar while learning the game. Imagine my surprise when I started playing at the arcade and I saw some people playing entire songs while leaning on the bar lol DDR means something different to everybody who plays it. How a player uses the bar - or avoids using it - gives some insight into their mindset and what they most enjoy about the game. At the risk of generalizing and putting words in people's mouth, bar players see DDR more as a reaction game with the score being most important, whereas no-bar players see DDR as a dance simulation game with the immersion/style being most important. It's all valid, and it's all in the name of having fun with this game we love. Let's not disparage each other over how we each choose to enjoy DDR.
I grew up in the "no bar" culture. I was just a kid, so I was sort of going through the motions and just following along. It's sad that I was included in that weird cultural phenomenon.
This is still a thing?! I remember hearing about players getting their hands slapped for leaning on the bar, and tournaments that had specific time limits for how long you could touch it- granted this was all during the drought between EX and SN. Kudos for the Sirlin reference! IIRC, there were officially sanctioned Andamiro events that DQ'ed players for the bar, and even physically removed them in comps, maybe? I know that attitude is still pervasive in the LatAm Pump community and i think that's why. I could be completely wrong though.
I took a 24 year hiatus from DDR and just picked up a LTEK pad and when I used to play on 3rd Mix (lol) I used the bar back then but coming back to it now I'm no bar. Not for any purist reason but A) Its a LTEK pad and it doesn't have one and B) I'm playing purely for exercise and balance since I've hit my 40s and I feel it's better balance exercise. I'm still far away from topping my younger benchmark which was surviving expert Dead End since I"m doing barless but I'm actually learning much better technique. Or learning there's technique period! We didn't know what Crossovers or any tech was back then, we just looked at stuff like Afronova and were like "What the hell is this crap?!?! Impossible" . Now I'm actually making progress on it! But more to your point, I could not give a single rats ass if people use bar or not and I will argue with people that do til I'm blue in the face cause I'm hard pressed to think of something anyone should care less about than others DDR bar preference.
leishen spittin bars 🔥 but yeah the fact that there's still discourse about this in 2024 is mind boggling, but finally we have a video explaining everything we need to know at this point. much appreciated.
"every player has the option to use the bar" *glances back at my lonely purchased dance pad* Jokes aside, i never even knew this controversy was a thing, i just had my friend who would use the bar when wed play at arcade and kinda wondering how benificial/mandatory it is going up in difficulty. Guess more then i expected! Thanks for the history lesson
I played no bar exclusively until I played ITG for the first time and after 1 round of Pandemonium I immediately switched to using the bar all the time.
It might have been worth mentioning that there was a stretch in the 2000's when Andamiro's official position on bar in Pump it Up was "it's for freestyle" and official "speed" competitions were explicitly no bar only. That stance has since changed and the game is way harder because of it.
The bar is a tool. I don't use the bar because I like moving my arms. If I lose balance the bar can center me. Use the tools you need when you need them.
Growing up I only had a redoctane foam pad on ps2 ddr and itg. I was a no bar player out of necessity. When i discovered stepmania was a thing and could get a hard pad at home, i got an L tek with the flimsy bar and started gaming bar style. Now I have an smx pad with a nice sturdy bar and i can get insane scores on ITG. I played an ITG 15 yesterday that has 1300 steps in 2:15, no way i was doing it no bar lolol it was full of XO FS BR and other tough tech, probably would’ve broken my ankles trying it no bar
The older players who hate using the bar and still actively play probably need to use the bar more than anyone else given the condition of their legs due to age and physical degradation. After seeing the toughest people experience knee surgery, I'll do anything in my power to conserve my remaining leg health.
When civilians ask me why people use the bar, I always give them the "play to win" and competitiveness explanation. But one thing that never gets discussed by players is that if normal people all have this reaction, there must be something to it. We're so far removed from their way of thinking that it seems both alien and incorrect, but I don't think either of those things are true. Since the bar gives you a clear advantage, it's natural and obvious to come to the conclusion that it's "cheating", even though we know that it's much more complicated than that. As a player, I use the bar, I understand the history and I completely get it. But there's no way we can deny that, aesthetically, it looks weird upon first exposure, and even for some of us, it might not be the way that we wish it was. If I could play without the bar like NOBARBEN and win all the time, would I? Probably... but it just isn't practical for me to do that. As for players themselves, since it's one of the only major choices you CAN make about how you play, some people are always going to make the choice to play without the bar. And if they make a choice like that, it should be expected that they feel their choice is the correct one, and they are likely to feel superior about it (whether they express it or not). Ultimately, in the case of players, it does come down to what you said: most really good players are also good without the bar, and in a hypothetical match would almost always win against loud no-bar purists. It's not like we can't all instantly destroy their 830k no bar scores on MAX 300.
I don't use a bar. I have to use a chair. 🙃 (I'm trying to say if I had the option to use the bar I would use it. Songs have gotten so hard in modern times.)
After 20 years I'm cool with no bar, one hand bar or two hand bar if you need to keep balance once in a while. TBH if you use two hands on the bar the whole time it still feels a little off to me. I think because I come from more of the freestyle gang. Konami knows if they did a bar and no-bar championship it would break the community completely and lose them money.
I personally use the bar the whole time except during breaks in the song when I need to give my arms a rest. They wouldn't put the bar there if they didn't want people to use it.
Howdy all ultra oldie! Been playing since the 1st ddr gori/gg clown I don't use the bar at all people find it amazing but for those that use the bar I'm ok with it it helps with balancing and able to complete the song at like high levels which is a ok in my books! If your ever in Texas look me up and let's play!
Personally, I never cared one way or the other if a player used a bar or not. I would agree that a player who can complete without a bar is more physically savvy at their balance then those with the bar, but even then it’s not like as though it matters to everyone in the long term.
I never cared when people used it or not. On normal tracks I never used the bar. Only time I ever use the bar is on extremely harder songs like MAX 300 and above. It's just too fast and I need the bar so I can complete the track lol
...if its known to be easier with the bar, then both competitors should either use or not use the bar. One with and one without creates imbalance. For a game meant to replicate dancing, it sure doesnt at that point.
I didn’t think this tiny brainlet tribalism still existed with how generally niche the game is in the west. Like just play the game how you want - the bar is there for a reason.
I've been playing DDR for 23~24 years and I strongly disagree with almost everything that has been said in this video. However, instead of making bad comments or insulting bar players, I've chosen to praise no-bar players and encourage them every time I can. I find it way more constructive and they totally deserve it. Sure I let out a rant about it here and there occasionally, but only IF a person or a forum thread is asking me about it. Stay Cool!
I think everyone should do what they wanna do. I absolutely don't think it's cheating at all and for competitive play I think its always mandatory to do anything you can to improve your score or performance no matter what the game or competition; however, I personally don't use the bar since it's neither ergonomic nor fun to me to do so. In addition, to me, using the bar looks *terrible* aesthetically. Finally, since I play with no bar I only really care about comparing myself to another player that doesn't use the bar. Simple as that. I don't play competitively though and just for fun so it's a different world out there. I just play exclusively at home and with friends that come over. We don't have a bar even if we wanted one to be fair lol.
![Best of Both Worlds - [Punk Workshop]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/B3DYCVGYYss/mqdefault.jpg)
My thought is that if they didn't want us to use the bar, they wouldn't have put it there in the first place.
Exactly. You are pressing buttons on a controller. I'm not using other controllers without holding on to the provided handles.
Obviously this. I've always found whole ordeal stupid af
I agree with all of this. I'm an old head player myself who started with the 5th mix. I've always been a no bar type player but that's just because I like it (I tend to freestyle more often as well). But even I have enough sense (especially after playing some of the newer songs) that if you want to be the best you HAVE to use the bar. I'm pretty much capped at songs around 12 and 13 because of not using bar. Just play the game and have fun people! This was a great video. Thanks!
Modern high level charts in DDR, ITG tech, and Pump left this bar conversation behind years ago. The people who still complain about this have no idea how the games have evolved in both difficulty and chart style.
Nobar for life, but I honestly do not care who uses/doesn't use it.
In my country in our community the big deal about The bar was, like if you play with it "you're not the Elite", and a lot of local championships was played No bar only, you could use one, but the crowd would judge you for doing so. That was 10 years ago.
Now no one cares, and shouldn't care at all. Play as you wish, but don't judge others of their playstyle.
Peace ✌️
Make the next video on proper bar usage. Or recommended form. I change form all the time because my arms start to hurt.
No bar player here that started 3 years ago. In ddr i can pas 16's. Im working on 17's now with 4 passed at the moment. Just let people play the game how they want. Unless your really trying to be the super duper best in the world then just enjoy it the way you like. I started this just to loose weight. Yes i like to improve my speed and scores but as long as everyone enjoys it then who cares? Let's just enjoy the game together.
Dance gamers at the highest level have insanely shredded arms and shoulders.
Yeah I remember the Barguments back in the day. Admittedly, I was in the "No bar" camp but converted pretty fast with ITG and once DDR A hit the states. And what you and a lot of other people have said in the comments, times change and the games and players have evolved. I'm lucky enough to have not heard anything negative about using the bar in the past 5 or 6 years. It's become so widely accepted where I'm at and where I travel to. So much so that when I tell old players who are coming back into the scene that using the bar has become the norm, they instantly adopt it into their playing style. Also, people shouldn't care that much. Whether you bar or no bar, just play the freakin' game lol.
It's arguably the safest way to play and imo safety should always come first in sports and sport-adjacent activities.
It's funny how people are still arguing about this 20+ years later. I stopped playing around 2011 because of lower back problems, and for my first few years I was strictly a no-bar player. Then I started to use the bar when I started attempting harder songs like Paranoia Survivor and MAX300. Then ITG came out and I became an almost full-time bar user for Single play (I played Doubles on occasion, and the bar was just too restrictive so I never used it on Doubles).
I've always believed that new players should learn without the bar first, as it helps build leg strength, balance, and coordination. Then, once they build their skills and start taking on harder content, that's when they should start using the bar if they so choose.
great video !! I'm very new to DDR and ITG and I've made friends with both types of players, sad that people care so much about others' personal preferences
i have a history of not great motor function the bar helps a lot and a softpad also helps due to sensors being wider so it's easier to hit the button
I have played off and on since 2002(even got to play one of the few US 1st Mix cabs) and the bar has always been a thing. I didn't use it immediately, but it's natural to gravitate towards it to pass harder stuff, especially so in doubles play. Within the playing community locally it was never an issue, some people would challenge themselves to no-bar, but most were chasing after scores or clears. I do recognize now, though, that I and many others were relying too heavily on assistance to clear stuff or bump the grade a little bit higher when the right training method would have been to work on cleaner technique at lower difficulty and slower speed mods. And the bar does factor into that some of the time, it gives you more leeway to flail through something you haven't learned
No-bar was also more of a thing because home setups were less elaborate. In college we did have drunk Stepmania parties using those foam-filled Red Octane softpads, anz that's the kind of thing you adapt to. It makes sense to play at the arcade the way you play at home.
The last time it provoked comment around me, though, was 2021, in a barcade. The guy was on a date and started making a fuss about me not really playing. The girl he was with wanted him to stop and he just wouldn't. I didn't say anything but the incident has lingered and I think the next time(ha) I would turn to the girl and be like "is this man bothering you".
My stance is this: if you feel the song is too hard or you're too tired, then use the bar! Or, get this, just use the bar just because! I used to be no bar, but with the newer songs? No way I'm not playing without the bar!
Always love when we drop the interview quote about how (angelic mix I believe it was) designed with the bar usage in mind.
Super funny because imo it’s probably the most iconic no-bar song.
I started with 5thMIX and a plastic pad on the PS1 at home, so I never had a bar while learning the game. Imagine my surprise when I started playing at the arcade and I saw some people playing entire songs while leaning on the bar lol
DDR means something different to everybody who plays it. How a player uses the bar - or avoids using it - gives some insight into their mindset and what they most enjoy about the game. At the risk of generalizing and putting words in people's mouth, bar players see DDR more as a reaction game with the score being most important, whereas no-bar players see DDR as a dance simulation game with the immersion/style being most important. It's all valid, and it's all in the name of having fun with this game we love.
Let's not disparage each other over how we each choose to enjoy DDR.
I grew up in the "no bar" culture. I was just a kid, so I was sort of going through the motions and just following along. It's sad that I was included in that weird cultural phenomenon.
This is still a thing?! I remember hearing about players getting their hands slapped for leaning on the bar, and tournaments that had specific time limits for how long you could touch it- granted this was all during the drought between EX and SN. Kudos for the Sirlin reference! IIRC, there were officially sanctioned Andamiro events that DQ'ed players for the bar, and even physically removed them in comps, maybe? I know that attitude is still pervasive in the LatAm Pump community and i think that's why. I could be completely wrong though.
Whoa Taren , haven't seen that name in ages
In my opinion play without bar its more dificult but the bar prevents injures and stay safe❤
I took a 24 year hiatus from DDR and just picked up a LTEK pad and when I used to play on 3rd Mix (lol) I used the bar back then but coming back to it now I'm no bar. Not for any purist reason but A) Its a LTEK pad and it doesn't have one and B) I'm playing purely for exercise and balance since I've hit my 40s and I feel it's better balance exercise. I'm still far away from topping my younger benchmark which was surviving expert Dead End since I"m doing barless but I'm actually learning much better technique. Or learning there's technique period! We didn't know what Crossovers or any tech was back then, we just looked at stuff like Afronova and were like "What the hell is this crap?!?! Impossible" . Now I'm actually making progress on it!
But more to your point, I could not give a single rats ass if people use bar or not and I will argue with people that do til I'm blue in the face cause I'm hard pressed to think of something anyone should care less about than others DDR bar preference.
leishen spittin bars 🔥 but yeah the fact that there's still discourse about this in 2024 is mind boggling, but finally we have a video explaining everything we need to know at this point. much appreciated.
"every player has the option to use the bar"
*glances back at my lonely purchased dance pad*
Jokes aside, i never even knew this controversy was a thing, i just had my friend who would use the bar when wed play at arcade and kinda wondering how benificial/mandatory it is going up in difficulty. Guess more then i expected! Thanks for the history lesson
I played no bar exclusively until I played ITG for the first time and after 1 round of Pandemonium I immediately switched to using the bar all the time.
It’s so weird that Healing Vision Angelic Mix was designed with the bar in mind, when it’s probably the most iconic no-bar song (those spins!)
I'm mostly just sad that alot of the higher difficulty tracks now pretty much require it.
why?
It might have been worth mentioning that there was a stretch in the 2000's when Andamiro's official position on bar in Pump it Up was "it's for freestyle" and official "speed" competitions were explicitly no bar only. That stance has since changed and the game is way harder because of it.
And that's totally fine! Andamiro set their own rules and eventually changed over time. Konami on the other hand was like 🤷♂️
The bar is a tool. I don't use the bar because I like moving my arms. If I lose balance the bar can center me. Use the tools you need when you need them.
Growing up I only had a redoctane foam pad on ps2 ddr and itg. I was a no bar player out of necessity. When i discovered stepmania was a thing and could get a hard pad at home, i got an L tek with the flimsy bar and started gaming bar style. Now I have an smx pad with a nice sturdy bar and i can get insane scores on ITG. I played an ITG 15 yesterday that has 1300 steps in 2:15, no way i was doing it no bar lolol it was full of XO FS BR and other tough tech, probably would’ve broken my ankles trying it no bar
The older players who hate using the bar and still actively play probably need to use the bar more than anyone else given the condition of their legs due to age and physical degradation. After seeing the toughest people experience knee surgery, I'll do anything in my power to conserve my remaining leg health.
I know the reddit page for DDR has quite a few anti-bar haters
I'm glad that the majority of the community is found elsewhere
When civilians ask me why people use the bar, I always give them the "play to win" and competitiveness explanation. But one thing that never gets discussed by players is that if normal people all have this reaction, there must be something to it. We're so far removed from their way of thinking that it seems both alien and incorrect, but I don't think either of those things are true. Since the bar gives you a clear advantage, it's natural and obvious to come to the conclusion that it's "cheating", even though we know that it's much more complicated than that. As a player, I use the bar, I understand the history and I completely get it. But there's no way we can deny that, aesthetically, it looks weird upon first exposure, and even for some of us, it might not be the way that we wish it was. If I could play without the bar like NOBARBEN and win all the time, would I? Probably... but it just isn't practical for me to do that.
As for players themselves, since it's one of the only major choices you CAN make about how you play, some people are always going to make the choice to play without the bar. And if they make a choice like that, it should be expected that they feel their choice is the correct one, and they are likely to feel superior about it (whether they express it or not).
Ultimately, in the case of players, it does come down to what you said: most really good players are also good without the bar, and in a hypothetical match would almost always win against loud no-bar purists. It's not like we can't all instantly destroy their 830k no bar scores on MAX 300.
I don't use a bar. I have to use a chair. 🙃
(I'm trying to say if I had the option to use the bar I would use it. Songs have gotten so hard in modern times.)
After 20 years I'm cool with no bar, one hand bar or two hand bar if you need to keep balance once in a while. TBH if you use two hands on the bar the whole time it still feels a little off to me. I think because I come from more of the freestyle gang. Konami knows if they did a bar and no-bar championship it would break the community completely and lose them money.
I personally use the bar the whole time except during breaks in the song when I need to give my arms a rest. They wouldn't put the bar there if they didn't want people to use it.
Howdy all ultra oldie! Been playing since the 1st ddr gori/gg clown I don't use the bar at all people find it amazing but for those that use the bar I'm ok with it it helps with balancing and able to complete the song at like high levels which is a ok in my books! If your ever in Texas look me up and let's play!
nobar is super cool and impressive but the bar has been part of the machines since they were created so
Personally, I never cared one way or the other if a player used a bar or not. I would agree that a player who can complete without a bar is more physically savvy at their balance then those with the bar, but even then it’s not like as though it matters to everyone in the long term.
I never cared when people used it or not. On normal tracks I never used the bar. Only time I ever use the bar is on extremely harder songs like MAX 300 and above. It's just too fast and I need the bar so I can complete the track lol
LMFAO how are people still arguing about this. Just play however you like, are comfortable with, or deem necessary to play certain songs.
I don’t understand, what was the original point of the bar if not for balance?
Okay but can you make this thumbnail without touching the bar?
...if its known to be easier with the bar, then both competitors should either use or not use the bar. One with and one without creates imbalance.
For a game meant to replicate dancing, it sure doesnt at that point.
I didn’t think this tiny brainlet tribalism still existed with how generally niche the game is in the west. Like just play the game how you want - the bar is there for a reason.
god, Tik Tok!?
I've been playing DDR for 23~24 years and I strongly disagree with almost everything that has been said in this video. However, instead of making bad comments or insulting bar players, I've chosen to praise no-bar players and encourage them every time I can. I find it way more constructive and they totally deserve it.
Sure I let out a rant about it here and there occasionally, but only IF a person or a forum thread is asking me about it.
Stay Cool!
I think everyone should do what they wanna do. I absolutely don't think it's cheating at all and for competitive play I think its always mandatory to do anything you can to improve your score or performance no matter what the game or competition; however, I personally don't use the bar since it's neither ergonomic nor fun to me to do so. In addition, to me, using the bar looks *terrible* aesthetically. Finally, since I play with no bar I only really care about comparing myself to another player that doesn't use the bar. Simple as that. I don't play competitively though and just for fun so it's a different world out there. I just play exclusively at home and with friends that come over. We don't have a bar even if we wanted one to be fair lol.
typical bar apologist
typical scrub