Why I don't want to be a musician in 2024
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Your chances of making a decent living playing music are lower than you think. I run through the numbers and give you the real world picture which you probably don't want to know.
However not all hope is lost. If you play music for music's sake, and not for money, there may be no better time.
Utkarsh Mohan is a Singapore based writer, musician and artist of Indian origin. Formerly in corporate senior management, he now pursues his passions and is also the owner of the Ministry of Guitar collection
You can also follow him on Instagram @ministryofguitar 
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So, you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah!!!!! 🎸🤘🤘🤘
Haha
Just like being struck by lightning, where you stand does matter.
There’s a world of difference between being a famous musician and a working musician. I’m perfectly happy being able to “keep the lights on at home” so to speak. With the way the industry is right now, I’d say I’m doing pretty well.
Such a good point. We all get into music because of inspiration from a particular artist (for me Eric Clapton, so yeah, I'm 68!) and we all think we can do this too...we can make it big time! What we don't realize is that it's the same thing as if we said, I'm going to play in the NFL, NBA or MLB. The chances of this happening are almost non-existent. Such is the nature of enticement. I have learned that one can still be a great player and have a day job. For 95% of my music career I didn't believe this fact. I was an all in or nothing kind of guy. My identity was locked into being a life-er musician. I didn't think there was life after music or other than music but man was I misguided on that! I approach the guitar now with so much respect and love. Every time I pick up the guitar I truly know how precious the guitar is. Big time?? It's such BS.
Most people didn't get anything
For me I loved guitar so much I didn’t want it to be work. Im retired now and made enough money to do all the playing I want now without having to earn a nickel playing guitar. Just pure pleasure.
You are looking at it wrong - I've been a working musician for over 20+ years, and have supported a wife and SEVEN children with just my guitar - I play 4-5 gigs a week in house bands, wedding bands and cover bands, do sessions, teach music privately and at a college, and do worship gigs. MOST professional (make a living from music) musicians are NOT famous. To create a sustainable career in music, you have to be versatile, know how to play jazz, country, rock, r&b, classical, latin, blues, etc., know your theory, know how to sight read, double on other instruments and sing.
While everything you state, 100% spot on, I know first hand through friends and family who have been going through it.I also do pretty similar types of work and styles of music as you except trade Broadway type theatre shows for classical as a drummer/percussionist in a state where tourism drives our economy. I'm 47 and single. I was lucky to work as a musician for a living from 1998, almost 20 years on and off with a corporate job as a musician (Disney) here and in Asia.
The reality of today though is the cost of living, even starting a family today just to have 1 kid, need to be making close to $100k or a little over v in Florida. Want to be able to buy a home as a man who wants to be able to find a wife and start a family these days? Having lived out of the country for 6 years at 1 time, it's seems only possible outside of the U.S. in Latin America, west Africa or Asia
I'm currently making the shift to IT and learning real estate. There goes time to create and make music
So if I start 20 years ago maybe I'll have a chance.
@@zolamadda5980 well, just like any job or career, it takes time to develop the skill set to do it. The problem is people think that they can just make it big by some sort of roll of the dice, when really it’s years of practice, developing the skill set needed to create a sustainable career.
@@KoreyHicksGuitarMy point is that circumstances were different 20+ years ago, and they also vary widely according to where one is located. While it is possible to make a living as a working musician, for most people the risk is not worth the investment.
You started decades ago and got a foothold. It’s almost impossible to get started now. Also, most musicians even if they started in the heyday of being a working musician and caught some big breaks aren’t able to sustain it anymore. You’re the exception that proves the rule. And more power to you!
A very successful musician I got to know in NYC told me about ten years ago, “no one plays music for the money anymore.”
This is even more true today than it was back then.
Anyone trying to build a following or make money at music in 2024 is absolutely delusional. Even out of the rare artists who have broken through and started to get known in the past ten years, almost known of them have been able to leverage that into a long term following let alone earning money.
The world is completely different now.
The best way to do music now is to accept that you will never be known and you will never make money. And just do what you want. It really helps if you have money, too. Or your spouse has money. A lot of it.
One thing I’d like to push back against:
It’s very, very difficult to become great as an artist if you have a day job. Very difficult. It takes a combination of hardcore singular focus as well ample leisure time to relax and develop new ideas in order to be truly creative. Conversely, the stress of being broke can make it very difficult to create.
Good luck to everyone out there. Truly. But let’s acknowledge the hard truths before we set out on our journey!
Thank you for your very honest and real content.
Thank you for sharing. I fully agree. And even more so with your pushback. I can fully relate given how my job occupied my time and my mind space before I quit. The point is that it is important secure financial means other than music and for most of us, it does mean a career. It’s a difficult one
@@ministryofguitar absolutely! I wish more aspiring musicians could hear this message. It would save many of them a lot of trouble and heartache down the road.
This is why your channel has been a breath of fresh of air to me. We need more people like you who are willing to speak the uncomfortable truth.
It depends on what you mean by become great as an artist. Is that technically or developing skills like songwriting etc? Technically frankly is the easier part. Bob Dylan and the Beatles wouldn't be exactly mentioned in the same way technically as jazz greats would be, but they both write songs that speak to people generations later.
@@Scott__C The Beatles and Bob Dylan are great examples of artists who never really had day jobs and spent years of their lives, while they were still unknown, doing nothing but living and breathing music in exactly the manner I just described. So, case in point.
@@flatrounds Right, but back then, it was a better environment for them to play live, write songs, be able to play them for an audience that wasn't only clamoring for a few hits and keep honing that craft in front of people. If they didn't have that experience, I doubt they could've written what they ended up writing. Same thing with other artists.
Create your art . Share it with whomever you can . Work your job . If you get into a position where your art starts becoming self sufficient monetarily.. great , frees more time to create your art. But create your art and hopefully find others to create with .
That's the way to go really.
Well said
I set my goals low. I just want to play well enough to be in a local bar cover band. It's more a middle aged hobby for me. 😁
That’s pretty much my bar as well right now
@@ministryofguitar You're way closer than I am! 🤣🤣
in TX where I've been since 1981, the number of bars and clubs has fallen off greatly, most of the time whoever owned the land or venue sold it, real estate prices got too high for people to start bars or they got bought out, if you played enough clubs etc. here you could make a living out of it, not now
@@michaelsix9684 Yeah, I can't see making that career change after 50 as a beginner. 😄
I like your more serious, analytical approach to music.
Thank you
How does a full-time, or mostly full-time musician provide for a family? A mortgage requires a significant down payment. We all get sick...health insurance in the USA is pricey...$15k or more for a family plan (cheaper if you go HSA route..), and we all get old and someday won't be able, or WANT, to work. How do you save enough for retirement making $300/gig on a good night? Even with other side hustles...it's a tough way to make living....fun perhaps, but tough.
The few who managed to win the lottery and succeed are all selling their catalogs cuz they see it’s getting even worse. Music is going back to the way it was before the record business… a few people play classical for the symphony or orchestra or it’ll be a hobby. That’s it.
@@misterknightowlandco Great point. There has been a crescendo of uber wealth at the top and they're buying everything up, like sharks with blood in the water.
@@misterknightowlandco Yeah, when streaming came along it was sold as a way for smaller artists to make money, but in the end, the people running it got rich and it's still tilted toward artists who are already making a lot of money.
Yes...
It is difficult to make a living as a musician
Today..
The competition is fierce and people still listen
And get music for FREE as well.
The real problem is societal attitude. Most parents will tell their kids it's a nice hobby, but expect they'll get jobs doing something else. Also, music and art in general is seen as something not necessary and simply a commodity that should be free or next to it. The industry looks at people like they should be so grateful that someone deigns to allow them to be a part of it.
It's viewed that the artists aren't the ones really making the art that people are buying. I think that's why there's so many things that are popular but won't be listened to in 50 years.
Right on. You could have a successful, corporate career or what have you, and also play locally or regally, and even play as part of a group that records, is among groups and artists on a smaller record label, and may be decently known in their genre - But it's not your main vocation. That's a good way to plan to get going, and enjoy your own creativity and musical output.
As always, great video sir! Been noticing lately this thing: raising number of "social media musicians" and "artists" begging for attention online because they are independent and spend their own money on that. Def making me calling it quits and stop listening to new music at all.
I'm not supposed to listen/buy an unknown artist's work because I feel sorry for them. I buy what I like and/or I support musicians I know personally.
The technology and folks begging for attention, eventually what will kill (already dying) music business formula.
“Never tell me the odds” - Indiana Jones
*Han Solo. 😂
@@indiedavecomix3882aren’t they the same guy?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@manuedwards6959 Close...🤣
@@indiedavecomix3882 lol, damn, I’ll own it
Yup, I’m skipping this one
You make superb interesting content......awesome!
Thank you
Musician here. I also know some professionals who are in the industry in the USA 🇺🇸 and Canada 🇨🇦.
"Do not become a professional musician" is BAD advice. Better advice is that making it as a popular mainstream musician (Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift , et al) is about as difficult as becoming a mainstream Hollywood actor 🎬 or becoming an athlete in any of the Big 4 team sports (baseball ⚾️, basketball 🏀, gridiron 🏈 football, ice hockey 🏒) popular in North America.
A person can work as a musician, not mainstream level, but the person better have a side job to pay for that house 🏠.
I think I agree with you. The point is a musician's living just by itself may not pay for the reasonable lifestyle anyone is right to expect
The chances of becoming famous is about 1 in 100,000 regardless of the endeavour. If you arent well on the way by age 21, forget it. It isn't going to happen. Always have a plan b. And buy a lottery ticket - because you've got a better chance of winning the lottery than becoming famous.
Well I won’t worry about age as much but yes probabilities are very low
Being great from my bedroom sounds as attractive as getting syphilis. Music is about making music with other people otherwise the satisfaction is not there.
I've been doing off broadway for twenty years. I don't have another job, I don't teach, I don't play in a cover band. Cleared 150k last year.
That’s wonderful
How many years did it take you to clear 150K in one year? 1, 5, 10, 20?
Guys from metalcore band While She Sleeps admitted to steel from Tesco because they were earning almost nothing at the first tours. Now they have many ways of earning money somehow , but there are no days off - constant work and hoping for a better future. Nowadays sometime you can't even sell your t-shirts because label wants to profit on them . However if you have a very creative and interesting idea for your music you can become famous overnight , but you have to think about it as something bigger than a fun project and understand that it is a business like anything else .
Yup that is the reality. Thanks for sharing
I play in a cover band that has been together for about, oh...10 years now...and we still have all five original members active in the band to some degree...we do have two bass guitarists, because the original bassist wants to spend more time with his wife and family, so is usually limiting his time with us to one show per month, leaving the other bassists to do all the shows booked beyond one show per month. We're a 5 person band when we play out, and in our area, a typical gig, like at a bar and grill, is usually $500 per show for the whole band. In my opinion, there is nothing that can replace the energy that comes with playing in front of a live audience, so I think that is why we still continue to do it...I personally look at it like we play for free, because it is what we enjoy doing, and the pay is for us to roady all that gear to and from the venue, and for set up and tear down. Now if it is a special event, like a town or city event that the town or city is putting on, or, say, a wedding, or something like that, or playing at a large venue, like a casino, those events usually always pay more. I personally think, based on the thousands of dollars worth of gear, the years of experience combined between all the musicians, etc...we are worth way more than $500 per a maximum of a four hour show, we are way underpaid if consideration is taken in order to get that machine" going, but we also know that limited head count places can make only so much money in one night, and that they have to make a profit, too. I wish there was a "band tube" that was dedicated to cater to bands, and was set up with ASCAP or BMI to ensure songwriters got compensated, as well as those performing cover songs, got compensated, as well. To me, it is no different than taking a song or composition written by Bach, Beethoven, Handel, Mozart, etc., and an orchestra putting on a paid performance of those compositions, covering those works of music, and the musicians in the orchestra getting compensated for doing so.
Very good point. Thank you for sharing
What if all the "good ideas" within the confines of a twleve step octave, have already been used up? It is finite, there can only be so many variations. What about the idea of exploring Vai's 16 step octave? Going way outside the box, to find something truly new. Instead of just changing the packaging and arrangements of the same basic components?
Imho we have enough great music already. I don't feel the need nor am I motivated by the constant push for more and new...
You're absolutely right trying to monetize music takes all the fun out of it.If it becomes a job or it feels like a job then what's the point?
And this is why on YT, most of the people you see as really successful are mostly advertising for gear companies. YT is an advertising platform.
Please keep at it Utkarsh - with more messages like this out there, young people will hopefully have more comprehensive information to make critical life choices...ironically, I thinking growing up in India with the extraordinarily limited "engineer-doctor" career options was probably one of the best things that could have happened to us. Thirty years down the line, the truth is widely accepted with the whole STEM reality before us all. I also want to just mention to any young people watching this and reading the comments - the joy of doing your once a month beer-fuelled gig at the local pub with your corporate mates; the luxury of picking up that latest riff of your choice at your own pace on a lazy Saturday morning with all your bills all paid and money in the bank: incomparable
Thanks for sharing. Will do
Just Do the Art .. just say YES!
haha YES!
There is room for advancement. The more exposure and experience helps with that. If you play often and got the Riz.
Today, anyone with a laptop and a midi
Controller can compose a song or a whole
CD and distribute it online.
Then there is music scoring for video games
Television shows, commercials.
It's up to US now....thanks.
Now the record business is dead… musicians will go back to the way it was before the record business. The orchestra, the streets or it’s a hobby.
Yes in a way that’s how it used to be
In your example, 1 in 67,000 people makes at least $100K FROM SPOTIFY. But as other commenters have noted, it’s common to generate income by gigging, teaching lessons, etc. My son’s piano teacher earns a decent income that way.
If you’re not in music for the music, and looking to get rich & famous … do us all a favor and just get a job.
There is an error in your calculation though. The 780 million is global net worth, not necessarily annual earnings. Maybe 780 million have 100k+ or more net worth, but that's likely in equity in a house earned over years and years. The median US salary is around 63k per year and only 20% of people in the US individually earn 100k+ per year, which is roughly 40 million people. Other countries would be much lower and that would drop off hugely outside of the western world and asia.
But still your point remains, almost no musicians are making 100k+ from music. I know in Nashville there are some musicians making 100k+ playing full time gigs on broadway but they are playing insane amounts of 4 hour shifts, sometimes 12-16 hours a day. That effort put anywhere else than music would make way more money.
Yeah the global net worth numbers according to UBS are higher than these which were the only income numbers I could find. I was going down the rabbit hole to reconcile and even thought of trying to show the UBS numbers and making an assumption on income and net worth. It was all getting too complex so I decided to just take them (the income numbers). That said, you are absolutely right. The point doesn’t change.
The chances of becoming famous is about 1 in 100,000 regardless of the endeavour. If you arent well on the way by age 21, forget it. It isn't going to happen. Always have a plan b. And buy a lottery ticket - because you've got a better chance of winning the lottery than becoming famous.
Fame and success are not one and the same. The music industry figures out ways to pay the artist less, and less. And live music club venues are even worse.
But there are many ways to monetize your skills, from teaching, to performing, to online marketing. If you really have talent, you find a way.
I agree about ok not to be a pro... There's nothing wrong with being the sultans of swing. I play the blues. Maybe Im not the greatest player of blues there is.. ha not even close. but Im still part of the blues movement. A time when guitarist loved the blues and tried to master it.
I don't think most professional musicians working in the daily common part of the music industry are depending on streaming, that's more of a songwriter gig..
I went to a music school but they never mentioned the odds of making a living as a working musician. The love of music makes musicians blind to the economic reality. But the good news is that musicians usually make very good software programmers !
I know a great software programmer who makes the craziest metal music
i will also say that working as a solo artist is definitely more lucrative in general (way less mouths to feed, and way less drama...)...
The record companies don't control the
Industry like they used thanks to the internet.
The power is in the musicians hands more
Than ever.
Unfortunately, AI generated music will control the industry going forward. The musician will be completely eliminated from the process.
@@carultch It's up to the people. If they
Refuse to listen to A I generated music,
It will fade.
@@tigerscott2966 If they know it. The problem is, that it's set up to imitate real music, and eventually so well, that even experts won't be able to know for sure.
And this is a big problem, not only because with few exceptions, AI is built on undermining copyright laws, but also because there's precedent that AI generated content can't be copyrighted. So this undermines the ability for authentic music to be copyrighted as well.
I get the point of the video..but most artist have merch, gigs and other revenus. You can’t only take their Spotify revenues to get your point across
You're viewing the world like an accountant; as if a young person has to leap into university and become a doctor, or face death by starvation. No, bro: there's such a thing as quality of life. Attempting to earn a living as a musician is incredibly valuable, in the same way that travel is valuable. Both these activities are seen as a waste of precious earning time by poverty cultures, but in fact they teach things you can't learn in university, such as aiming for goals that produce happiness, rather than goals that simply make money. Both activities can teach you to live on a budget and also teach you financial management skills and the ability to think on your feet. University-educated people can generally handle anything except a new situation. And many university-educated people have never experienced what it feels to be completely alive. Most travellers and musicians have. I know many, many people who've had a rich and happy life through their music. Few people become pro musicians forever, but even fewer people regret their time spent playing music as a job.
I'm concerned that, in one respect, the video may be exaggerating the income musicians get from Spotify. I confess my ignorance in this matter, but aren't most royalties paid to song copyright holders, as opposed to musicians who play on the various tracks? If so, then the figure of 11,600 people making $100K or more may include only a small number of non-songwriters who played on songs written by others.
I'm aware that there was a movement to ensure that session musicians received royalties for work on successful songs. But I don't know how successful that was. Session musician Tim Pierce discussed this recently. The topic was the decline of the middle-class musician. It's intimidating enough seeing that musicians who played with Michael Jackson, Phil Collins, among others are complaining about their careers. But add in the ever-expanding options for using computer-aided accompaniment, and the situation looks ever more daunting.
I was a run of the mill teenaged guitarist in the 70s. I am glad that I had a guitar teacher who advised me not to pursue a career in music. Having another poor musician in the world would have helped no one.
I think you are absolutely right. Spotify’s figure are to the artists . What musicians who play on the tracks, who knows and that’s a whole different story. On a different note, stories by Tim Pierce and company is what turned me on to how poorly rewarded session musicians were compared to the best of the field in several other industries.
Put aside the money. It's not even appealable to be a rock star these days. Everyone is on their phones. No interaction. Your albums won't sell. People will just look you up on RUclips and listen to some of your songs. Being a rock star is dead.
I agree. It is also a world where rockstar behaviour may be penalized
Funny, the percentage of musicians making 100k a year from streams is similar to what Spotify pays per stream.
someone told me once: "i can make you rich or famous as a musician/artist...i can't make you "both"..."...these numbers are very telling as to why so few people in the world are wealthy in this field...the numbers are definitely in the ball park...
Be a musician anyways!! If you have to get a "day job", then do it. Always continue to play and create. These billion dollar Taylor Swift comparisons are crazy. She wont be on "top" forever. There needs to be a more fair pay system than Spotify. Make a difference and stop using streaming services until they start paying fairly!! The internet didn't go the way in favor for musicians, like many thought. Boycott streaming and AI NOW!!
I don't have wish listen her albums . Madonna is not my cup of tea but as a kid i had " Like a Prayer " original cassette .
Taylor have such good album ? Just ask .
You would get a similar figure - or even bigger one - if you said: snooker player - golfer - TV presenter - mathematician - footballer - runner - swimmer - painter - youtuber...
True. The difference is that while opportunities for sportsmen/women have increased due to increased commercialisation, the oppositie is true for musicians
@@ministryofguitar ----- photographers - actors - philosophers - writers - authors - poets ... Making a living tends to involve doing some kind of _chore_ which isn't necessarily fulfilling in itself. Creative people need to accept that most people work hard at mundane repetitive tasks that often require high skills and responsibility. I am sure a lot of these people wish they could have a job with more glamour and fame or prestige ...
I've always said that it's a long way from gramdms basement to the stage ☹️🇺🇸
Way to go, scare them competitors away, hahaha.
Please do not listen to those who call you a would-be musician if you are not making a living, or even any money, from it. I hate it when non-published authors are called would-be writers by those who have been traditionally published or by anyone else. No, they are writers. Likely the best writers and musicians have never gained much recognition, given the large numbers of them, although some great ones have.
so 13 % make over 100k a year .....just a bit over 10% of people ....... why would you use 100k a year as 'the number" ?
it might be ok to be a musician that does not make money these days, with lots of instrument choices, and the fact that spotify says that it does not cost money to make a record. Being a paid musician is always hard, and there are even songs about doing just that.
Learn to be the Truck driver for a better chance in life.
For this reason... I rather work in a regular day job in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil or even Johannesburg, South Africa then to work in the music industry.
Because music pays less then one dollar a month.... as low as the minimum wage of countries with Hyperinflated currencies like Venezuela.
Besides... "making money doing things you love" and soo called "desirable jobs" after all is laughable anyway because the happiest people in the world are hunter gatherers who literally owned nothing, have no modern technology and don't even have any writing. A Hunter Gatherer Tribe living in the Amazon forest of Brazil for example are much more happier than a Touring rock artist(And definitely happier than anyone in these soo called "creative jobs").
$100,000 a year, can tell you work in finance haha, that's already over twice the national average salary here in the UK, greedy haha
I don’t think 100K is greedy for decades of experience in a developed country. Also I don’t work in finance
100k a year in the US is considered the bare minimum in the US. You can’t get a home loan here without reaching that number as a household stateside. I wouldn’t consider owning a home “greedy”.
Luckily AI is almost here to takeover and relieve musicians of even more opportunities. Isn't technological progress just great?
They say Time and Tide wait for no man. They should add technology to that sentence
The nuclear bomb is also an amazing technology…that doesn’t mean we should use it
As others have said, you are certainly looking at it wrong. I would easily and more than gladly be making a simple living for myself (as a business, I don't even need labels) with full autonomy, than working for some slave owner PoS who is reaping 247% profits off my miserable labour.
Go look up Alan Watts and his beliefs on work and play. All work is miserable, just have to find something you enjoy and feel satisfied with.
Thanks for sharing. The issue is this. Making even a simple living playing music is getting more difficult as opportunities are declining due to technology . If one wants to operate as an independent business, well running a business is a whole different ball game . I will look up Alan Watts
someone who truly burns with desire to create music would rejoice in any small sum of money that allowed them to spend more hours creating and less hours working a day job they don't really want to do - to anyone who dreams of creating music that can kindle in others' souls the same magic that music of your favourite artist's has kindled in yours then absolutely ignore every word of this man cos stuff like this could crush your dreams but it's purest nonsense
That's really cute, until you have to pay rent.
@@zolamadda5980 well i do pay rent
my current plan is to keep making music in th hope that it might one day bring enough money for me to cut down my hours in the kitchen and spend more time making music so
also the average salary in the uk can never buy you a house these days, so better spend your life savings on loads of guitars and drums and microphones haha
@@lawrencesearle sounds good, good luck!
If you are as good as Tory Slusher, Go for it. 99.99999 are not.
Your point is valid but your assumptions are questionable. What percentage of musicians have their sole income stream come from Spotify? Probably zero. For most, it’s probably a minor part of their income. Moreover, you are not taking into account retirees, currently around 10% of the world’s population.
When breaking down occupations, how many categories are there? This matters when comparing one choice of occupation over another. For example, how many politicians are making more than 100K?
Yes I fully agree that each of the assumptions can be challenged and as I said in the video, I’m just going ahead for the sake of simplicity. That said, I think the overall point doesn’t change. Only 110K artists not individuals making over a 100K a year in the whole world in the no 1 paid streaming platform is a shockingly low number
@@ministryofguitar Agreed, but that is a complaint against Spotify. A musician in a symphony orchestra, or who plays on Broadway, for example, will make over 100K. Average is 150+ for the New York Philharmonic. A good music teacher in a large city will make that much, as will tenured music professors at universities. And you ignore revenue from other platforms beside Spotify. It may not have been the 1 in 2000 that you would have guessed, but I think it’s probably an order of magnitude better than the numbers you propose.
@@duffyprattdo you know how hard it is to land any of these jobs?
Again I partially agree. But I m not counting music teachers in this list of musical artists. And all the classical performing players in broadway or otherwise would be a drop in the ocean. If it doubles this number , which I highly doubt, it’s still very limited opportunities in music compared to other professions
@@zolamadda5980 Yes. An opening at any symphony will receive thousands of applications.
get a solid career, and do music on the side, if it takes off, then quit your other career
8 billion make over 100k per year, and the world population is 7.90 billion, lol umm your math is a bit off, my man! 😂😂😂