The finest all around "non Magnum" is the .280Rem. From varmints to Moose. From 120gr to 175gr, flat shooting and with good handloads in a bolt action, I easily load to within 200 or so FPS of it's big brother the 7mm Mag but with less recoil, powder and much longer barrel life. I've shot "dirt dogs"(what we called prairie dogs growing up in Wyoming) and Antelope with 120 and 140 gr bullets, Mulies and Elk with 160gr Nosler Partition and one Alaskan Moose with 175gr Nosler Partition. It's the Swiss Army Knife of non magnum calibers...
I used to be a magnum guy. Owned 3 different 7mm Rem Mags, 2 Different 300 win Mags, and a Sako 338 Win Mag. Then, I discovered the 35 Whelen and have completely given up on the magnum craze. I have customized a Rem 700 CDL SF and now have a tack driving Whelen. I live in Saskatchewan, where I can hunt moose and elk in open seasons and I haven't missed an elk in over a decade, and all taken with the Whelen. I can attest that out to 300 yards it's an emphatic killer and very forgiving if you mess up a bit. My particular rifle drives 200 grain Barnes ttsx bullets at 2950 fps without going over book loading values ... and without the massive recoil and concussion of the mags. Thank you for the video. You have confirmed everything I believe and have experienced about the 35 Whelen.
My father spent many years in the South Pacific during WW2 and used a 30-06 there. After the war he moved to Alaska and bought a pre-64 model 70 chambered in you guessed it 30-06. He topped it with a Lyman Alaskan post sight scope (also used in WW2 south pacific) and he fed our family for many years with that set up. He was a rifleman / marksman and had many medals in his closet. He only had one hunting rifle and he was very familiar with the rifle and the 30-06 with 180 grain bullets and by instinct knew where to hold at whatever range. Beware the man who only uses one gun he most likely will know how to use it. I was always amazed at his shooting ability with that rifle. He took many moose and caribou with that old 30-06 and when I inherited it I took it out and found it grouped 1 inch or less with just about anything I fed it. I use a mod. 70 stainless steel rifle chambered in 300 win mag but I know for a fact the 30-06 will do the job, my father proved it to me.
There is not a more fitting rifle to pass down than a Pre 64 30/06 , one of the greatest cartridges ever produced. It can take ANY north .American game animal with good Nosler Bullets and ot even excels as a top notch African plains game rifle .A few Professional hunters even used it back in the day to take down Elephant and Cape Buffalo.with carefully placed shots. AMAZING ROUND. IF I could own just one center fire rifle it would be A 30/06.
It’s a beautiful story. I am a retired noncommissioned officer from the U.S. Army. I’m a firm believer in America’s cartridge 30.06. I enjoyed reading your story and it’s farther proof that 30.06 rules and all others drool👍🫡🇺🇸
@@finallyfriday. Close. I have the 35 Whelen and 7mm Mauser, covers everything in the lower '48 States. Lately, I have been harvesting feral pigs in East Texas, unlike most hunters that hunt the big boars, I leave those to them and I target the lactating sows, they are the "vector," or multiplier, of pig population, and the meat is more tender and marbled. Typically, I set it up with a farmer/ rancher, I pay them no money but I share the meat with them if they want it which they usually do. In Texas there is no season or bag limit, you only have to buy the State general hunting license, $100/ year last I checked. Most of these farmers/ranchers are handy at butchering, and we do same day and either cook it up that day/evening or pack the meat in salt and ice. It is generally lean, tender and tasty, but this depends on what they have been feeding on to some degree. The native acorns, farmers corn, soybeans, and peanuts are common and the meat is good, but it is WHY you're there in the first place to protect the crops. I hunted some that had been feeding on an onion crop, and the meat was so awful that we ended up just burying them.🤮 It is legal and efficient to hunt them over a baited patch. We let the trappers trap them in the winter months when food is relatively scarce. We start in the spring when the property has to be protected from the pigs digging up the newly planted corn and soybean plant shoots just popping up. Sometimes we target a coyote that are harassing livestock, but since they also go after the little piglets ( shoats) that survive the takedown of the sow mothers. For them, I use my 22 Hornet. My buddies will use a 22 rimfire, it works with a well placed shot. I try to recruit newcomers to the sport, this feral pig problem needs all hands on deck. There are hunting ranches in South Texas, I avoid them, they charge a lot for people doing a public service. East Texas is my hunting ground, you can contact the agricultural Extension of the USDA in the rural counties. I know that there are bow and crossbow hunters that target feral pigs, happy hunting to all. 🤠🏹
I have a 35 whelen rifle built on a 1941 Mauser action. I use 200gr tsx bullets, for moose and reindeer. Its my favoritt hunting rifle! Thank you for your videos. Greetings from Norway
I need to make three comments. First: I love your understated Canadian approach...refreshing not to get yelled at by a passionate but noisy presenter. Two: I have publicly said the same thing about range...300yds is long. More than three and we are talking more about shooting skill and much less about hunting ability. If you can get within 50yds of N. American big game while still-hunting or stalking you have accomplished the "art" of hunting. Three: I'd love to have a .35 Whelen but I can't get away from the sheer availability of my beloved Springfield round. Please keep up the good work I enjoyed your style and wish we could sit and have a cup of Joe and swap hunting stories! BOL
I agree with you. Some of us don't get around as well as we age though. So stalking through the brush to get a 50 yard shot isn't very likely. I'll take a clean shot at 250 though. I know people that complain about people putting scopes on lever action rifles. I went blind in one eye, and can't shoot iron sights, so I put a scope on my lever actions. I think the most important thing is for people to stay within their own ability. I would much prefer to keep my shots under 200 if I can though. Wind is bad news no matter how good a shot a person is.
@@TexanUSMC8089 I completely understand. My comments are largely aimed at hunting in wooded country and at young fellas who think the 500yd shots across the mountain are hunting. Open country folks on the plains etc have a whole different set of circumstances and need to use different tactics- same in your Texas brush country. BTW I use a scope even in woods- more options and improved accuracy! Deer are where you find and rarely where you want them to be!
@@tomdonaghy8625 I surrendered my 06 for a .308Win but...my son up in AK in the army has the iconic pre 64Win Mod 70 in 06! We hunt thickets and hardwoods at home so range is seldom longer than 150yds. I took the no. 5 NYS fair chase buck last season with my Savage .308 custom scout rifle- but a bow would have done the job. Never get over how some fellas think they are hunters when the game is in another township...I also love the British .303 round! Tell Gordon Lightfoot hello :>)
I guess I'm an old fuddy-duddy. I've owned pretty much all the magnums and big bores. My hunting is all in the lower 48, so I've returned to the .30-06 for pretty much everything out here in the West. My other rifles are fun, but that old '06 just does so many things so well for me. I've never lost an animal with one. Need a bigger bullet? Well just load up some 200-220 grain ones and you're usually good to go. Get closer to the game. In my opinion 500 yard shots should be made on targets and maybe varmints. And those don't require a big old bullet. Hunting isn't sniping.
@@north005 06 performs a bit better, its got more fuel. They are very similar, but the 06 shines a little better. All depends on what your doing. If you stay within ranges that you got desired foot pounds of energy for animal hunted, it doesnt matter what reasonable caliber you go with really. Randy Newberg gets elk, and mule deer all the time with 308. He also likes 7mm-08 for some other applications like pronghorn hunts. Most real hunters are not sniping either though. Hunt Simple has some good vids on this stuff too. Im looking forward to his 270 project Tikka. Im interested in his results. ruclips.net/video/Ff3muZjIYVw/видео.html
@@north005 In most situations, yes. The extra case capacity of th .30-06 should be superior for really heavy bullets though. I currently have rifles in 6.5x55, 7mm Mauser, 7.63x54, 8x57, .308, .45-70, .44 Magnum, and ..30-06. Those are just the big game type sporters. I find myself just taking the .30-06 when hunting. I have been down the rabbit hole on Magnums in the past as well. They are all gone now. I just didn't seem to need them. As for the .270, I love that cartridge. I just don't have one at the moment. When I hunt with something other than a .30-06 it's usually for the novelty of it. I have a very lightweight single shot .30-30 that's really a fun rifle and have had some fun on pigs with it. But it's not an all-arounder.
9.3x62 in a Mauser action or a Steyr has been thumping critters stone-cold from Africa to Alaska and every latitude in-between for over a hundred years. New bullet technology and new powders just kept it aging like a good wine.
I have been hunting with a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62 for a few years now on whitetail. Very effective out to 350-400 yards. Gets pretty droopy after that, but most of my deer are shot inside 150.
The 9.3x62 is European kin to the 35 Whelen velocity wise. Both great cartridges, and the ones I reach for when it’s time to settle up with Yogie’s family tree.
Shoot the widest, heaviest bullet you can accurately shoot out to about 300 yards. You won't be disappointed. My favorite is the .358 Winchester (the Whelan's little brother). Its a reloader's dream. Cheap 308 brass with a bunch of common available 35 cal bullets.
@@warrensciambra7968 The 400 I believe was tried before they settled on the 35. From what I've read the 400 didn't have enough shoulder and was hard to maintain headspace. Even with the 35 one must be careful to not screw up the length of the case to maintain headspace when reloading.
@@ashmerch2558 although a 30-06 is a great rifle, the 35 Whelen is just more versatile. You can buy factory loads up to 3900 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, which is 20% more then a 30-06. Plenty for elephant, and it's actually on par with a 375 H&H. Like he says in the video you can also load any 9mm bullet, so using a 60 grain pistol bullet you can hand load down to sub-sonic for shooting rats in the barn. So a 35 Whelen can replace your 375 H&H, your 30-06, your 308, your 30-30, your 45-70, your 44 Mag carbine, your 350 Legend, your 357 Mag/38 Special Carbine, your 22 Mag, even 22 LR and any other gun you use to hunt within 500 meters. This is why gun companies don't like to make/sell them, or promote them.
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 Yeah ok bud 👌🏻 It’s a good caliber but don’t try to say it’s something it’s not. 300 grain at 4260 is a lot more. And the 35 Whelen can’t replace ANY of the calibers you mentioned. Apparently you haven’t hunted much.
Started with an old American enfield in .30-06 from wwl when I was a kid about 8 or 9. I’m now 65, still love .30-06 and still shoot that same rifle and one other 06. Great caliber.
I agree, completely. I have handloaded and hunted with 25-06, 7mmRM, 300 WM, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 375 H&H and 416 RM. 35 Whelen is the most versatile round I have ever used.
I was able to get my first hunting license at 14 in Colorado. I am 67. I have been involved with many firearms and have handloaded all that time. I to went through the age of velocity and its wonders. I have as I've aged learned the lesson of mass. High velocity such as you get from a 257 Weatherby most certainly will harvest an elk at quite a distance with the result of much capillary meat contamination. The .35 Whelen and other rifles with bullets with more mass and a somewhat slower delivery create penetration. Meat damage is far less, resulting in a brimming freezer. Also the .35 Whelen pushes a 225 grain bullet easily to 2700 fps with 10 or more fewer grains of powder than a .338 mag. with push the same weight of bullet which indicates to me the 35 is a much more efficient round.
It is satisfying to here someone that also appreciates the .35 Whelen. I am not a collector as you are but I have owned a few magnums and have relieved myself of there possession. I hunt mostly elk and have found the .35 Whelen a very efficient round for that. I love it when you say if you aren't within 300 well get closer.
Thanks Russell - Your experience means a lot. The Whelan is the ticket for elk and just about anything. A lot of people might be surprised how that round flattens if the aim is good and the distance sound. All the best.
I've hunted with these two cartridges quite a bit while hunting plains game in bushveld conditions. The 338-06 with a 250 grain Nosler Partition will accomplish everything you need to shoot up to eland.
The 35 Whelen is an absolute beat, lol. Everyone want to shoot mine, but usually only a handful of shots. Now I need to build one in a bolt action and make sure it is about 9+lbs with the scope.
I don't really have anything to add to this topic of conversation, but I would just like to say you really, really, have a great channel with great people here. Take care.
The 35 whelen is huge in Mississippi and Louisiana. Most deer hunters own a single shot 35 whelen because we are alowed to use it for "primitive weapon" because it's a single shot 35 caliber or larger.
@@robertayoder2063 I don't make the rules I just follow them. Muzzle Loaders, crossbows, and compounds aren't very primitive either. Ethically what is more important tradition and challenge, or a quick clean kill? Personally I just like venison and hunting so I hunt with what ever I'm allowed and gives me the best chance.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Great review and good to mention this long distance shooting issue. I have a 35 Whelen in a Remington CDL all bedded up and shoots just great. Here in Western Canada we have the whole gamut, 300+lb Whitetail and Mule deer, elk, moose, black bear, grizzly (no hunting them), Bighorn sheep and antelope. With modern powders and factory ammo (Nosler 225gr Accubond) it is now possible to achieve the same trajectory of a factory 30.06 180gr bullet with of course far more energy and knockdown power. With sheep and antelope the 200gr bullets in handloads or factory will do it within responsible shooting range. Contrary to what most TV hunting shows like to portray most sheep and antelope are shot at normal range like deer. Almost all the time hunters choose to shoot long range, not that they have to. Every year where I hunt we see grizzlies near and far all the time but on 2 separate occasions a couple close encounters at 30yds occurred. On both occasions I had my Whelen with 225gr bullets and in no way did I feel the least inadequate because I know the Whelen would have flattened them right there. When using my 06 I always have hot loaded 220gr Partitions for bear defense handy. Good for you mentioning the 35 Whelen one of the most underrated calibers for North American game.
Absolutely the 35 whelan is fantastic. It should be noted that 35 cal is also about the starting point where cast bullet performance is starting to become legit because of sufficient mass and bullet diameter. Yes the 35 whelan is good but its also good with cast bullets too unlike smaller bores. Personally I don't have a 35 whelan but my analog for that performace is met with my 338RCM, 348 win, and 348 Ackley. They basically do the same thing with similar bullet weights but my rifle was a discounted left hand Ruger and my others are leverguns. Both are awesome for lefties.
It's been a while since I've visited your channel but it is certainly not because of the quality of your content. You are one of the most humble and yet at the same time most qualified and logical people that cover the fields of guns and ballistics, that I have found and this particular segment is just another example of that. When I saw the title of this particular chapter of your work, two calibers immediately came to mind for me (and I have been going down a similar road to yourself for ~ 60 years)... they were as you might have guessed, the exact same two cartridges that you chose. I've been trying to find what I feel are the best rifles that are available in the 9.3 x 62 and haven't settled on the best one yet but am open to any suggestions that you have. Keep up the excellent work! MLV...
I would guess the 9.3x62 could be found on nice Mauser actions all over the place. If you want a rifle of this power and as efficient there isn't a choice any better than that.
Good to hear someone talking good of the Whelen i have 2 one a Ruger Centennial model of which only 150 were made i get it out only to look at it the other is a single shot stalker it will put 220 grain bullet into the same hole at 100 yards over and over very accurate I have reloader set up just for the Whelen it is an excellent elk cartridge yes I love the Whelen.
You’re right on the money. Elmer Keith would agree with you as well. Fast and light has a place in the wide scheme of things but as you mentioned, the laws of physics have never changed, mass is very important. Modern bullet construction has helped fuel the need for speed but it’s not a panacea for poor bullet placement nor poor marksmanship. I have made most of shots on game inside 400 yards over my 55+ years of hunting. My longest shot to date is a measured (with laser) 425 yards on a bull elk with a 7mm Rem. It was a one-shot kill. I spotted him at over 700 yards and the closest I was able to get was 425 as I ran out of cover and about 20 inquisitive cows and the vagaries of shifting winds made getting closer impossible. I know my rifle and I know what I can do with it. I regularly shoot targets at 600 to 1000 yds and I had my ballistic cheat sheet to adjust the scope. I hit that bull exactly where I was aiming. I am disheartened by reading about these “extreme” range hunters. There are very few people who have the skills to hit a target at 1000 yds consistently. Too many variables to consider when shooting at game at extreme ranges. I have shot 1000 yd benchrest for many years with a custom Borden rifle but I would never shoot at game at that range unless it was wounded. Great video as usual.
Wow! you really hit the nail on the head. Really like the 35 Whelen . I think it was Elmer Keith that dropped a Brown Bear with it. Way back when bullets were not the best. I have 3 rifles all based on the 30-06. They happen to be 30-06, 35 whelan, and 25- 06. Each with a perfect bullet weight for almost all NorthAmerican and planes game. Now that age is catching up to me as much as I like fast magnums I really find the 30-06 based rounds are still plenty for game and human tolerance. Very well done.
I have never been a fan of "magnums." I agree 1000%. I have used a .35 Whelen in a sporterized Mauser since the late 70s for elk hunting. When Remington came out with the 7600 in .35 Whelen (about 1988 as I recall) I jumped all over it! It is even better than the bolt gun. Very accurate and fast for repeat shots. It drops elk in their tracks with a well placed shot. It does it with a lot less recoil, noise and gunpowder than the .338 WM. I have also used it for deer. Most of those being mule deer I took in the course of elk hunting. It isn't necessary for deer of course (and my favorite deer cartridge is the .300 Savage) but it is certainly more than adequate for deer. It is also excellent for bear and boar and I wouldn't hesitate a moment to take on big bears or moose with it. Before the cartridge was commercialized, I used .30-06 cases and fireformed them with 5 gr. of "Red Dot" powder. On top of the powder I filled the case with cornmeal all the way to the mouth of the case (no wad is needed) and then pressed a block of paraffin wax into the case mouth, twisted it off and left a plug of wax in the case. These fireform perfectly every time! Then, just size the case in your .35 Whelen dies and load normally. I would blow out the chamber after each fireforming load. If you don't, you get funny little "dimples" in the case from cornmeal in the chamber. These don't hurt anything, but I don't like them. They will blow out the next time the case is fired. BEWARE: These fireforming loads are LOUD !!!!!! and blast cornmeal everywhere! Shoot them *outside* where you would normally fire live ammunition. Take every caution you would give live ammunition, the wax plug would be deadly at close range. You don't need a "safe backstop" per se, just a clear area where noise and cornmeal dust won't bother anyone.
Thanks for the detailed note and instructions - you were far ahead of the game with the .35 Whelen; more people write me about it each week. The cartridge does everything well - within range. Good hunting and take care.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I probably don 't need to tell you that in the 60s and 70s when we did a "rifle build" it wasn't with an AR receiver, parts kit and a torque wrench. It was with a Springfield '03 or Mauser '96 or '98 action. I "built" my .35 Whelen on a Mauser '98 action with a custom ordered barrel and fitted the stock from a "semi-inletted" finished and checkered blank. I basically had to fit the barrel to the stock, the rest was done. I was reading all the gun magazines of the day and Elmer Keith was one of my heroes. The .35 Whelen was a favorite of his and that was good enough for me! He used 275 gr. bullets in it. I never tried any of those. My favorite loads push a 225 gr. Speer BTSP to 2650 fps +/- in either of my rifles (both have 22" barrels). I also tried Hornady 250 gr. RN bullets, because I was using those to load a Winchester Model 1895 in .35 WCF, but I settled on the BTSP at higher velocity for it's increased range capability. I still have several hundred of those bullets on hand. Incidentally, the .35 WCF is an excellent cartridge and I make fireformed cases for that one from .30-40 Krag using the same fireforming load. They are a little short, but work fine. Being that it is a rimmed case and box magazine with no need for a crimp, I just seat the bullets out to the correct OAL and the rifle never knows the difference. For practice I use a 250 gr. cast roundnose bullet and have even used 158 gr. cast bullets intended for the .357/.38 revolvers.
Mike always makes sense. And one feels good over the fact that despite being on the other side of the world where we have extremely limited choices of firearms, everything makes sense what one reads and what one hears and sees courtesy of mike. Great Job 👍
I’ll say this of recoil: I’m 4’11” and a small framed woman. I love to shoot. I love to hunt. When I bought my first rifle, I was 15. Dad tried to get me to buy a .243WIN. For our small west Texas white tail it may have been sufficient. But I knew I wanted to take large hogs, and go elk hunting that fall. .243WIN just wouldn’t do. So the first rifle I bought was a 7MM 08 Ruger. Does just fine for white tail and small hogs. Then talked my grandpa out of his Winchester model 70 in 30-06 and my dad was ADAMANT “that’ll kick too much and you won’t ever want to shoot it!” I LOVE that gun. Will never part with it. And loved it so much I did buy a 35 Whelen, too. Shooters should not be limited in what caliber they shoot because they’re afraid of the recoil. The 30-06 and the 35 Whelen are both perfectly manageable.
Hi Stephanie, You must be a national treasure. One fellow told me that recoil is all in the mind; maybe so - and most of us have it very much in mind : ) You must have a special absorptive capacity. I knew a fellow who was 5 feet something and he could fire the biggest and most brutal rounds - I watched him one time and he just seemed to be like a spring and even reloaded on the push back. Good on you and thanks for the note. I have a hunch a lot of people brace for recoil instead of just going with it. Anyway, I'm no expert. All the best to you.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I think of it this way: do I want to rapid-fire a 300 WIN MAG? No. But- if I’m a smart shot, one shot is all it takes at an elk. And it only hurts for one second. And the reward is greater than the discomfort. 😉
Agree. Shooting off a bench at a range you think about recoil but when you are in the field you never even think about it. My 9.3 is a brute at the range but never notice it hunting.
You are correct. In the field, any shot over 300 yards is a very long shot, and they don't film the misses on youtube. There are few hunters actually taking game at very long ranges.
When I saw the title I waited to click on it. I wanted to think about it then hear what your thoughts were. My first thought was 30-06 then immediately I thought 35 whelen has more energy and almost as flat trajectory then I thought 270 more velocity flatter trajectory but less energy then I thought 308 was almost the velocity and energy but quite a bit less powder and more accurate. Then I started thinking this is very subjective ... So what equals the best? To whom? For what game or purpose? It's definitely difficult to argue against the 35 whelen. But I could make a great argument for many cartridges it really depends on what you want to do with it and who is shooting it. Thanks for sharing Mike 👍
Love the boxer analogy. I am a fan of both .35 whelen and 9.3x62, id have to give 9.3 the nod though not because of anything wrong with the .35 but because I refuse to handload so ammo availability is better and rifle choices are better and generally most of the hunting I do is at relatively short range still hunting through timber. There are times I do hunt more open country, in which case I carry a different rifle/caliber and I still have never shot at anything much over 300 yards. Thanks for another excellent video. This channel is great!
I'm happy that you reference to the 35 Whelen as a great cartridge. I have a 338 06 a square which is very similar and it is one of my favorite rifles. I have taken a few deer with mine it kills quickly.
I’ve owned a half a dozen or so 30-30 rifles. I also have a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington and I prefer it hands down to the 30-30. It’s a hard hitting round (200 grain bullets), accurate and is fun to shoot. Recoil is mild.
Hey Mike, I finally bought a 35 Whelen rifle today! It’s based on a 98 Mauser action and I’m really excited about it. But this big ammo shortage we are in will limit my fun times for awhile, since it seems very few folks around here even know what a Whelen is! I’ll keep you posted on my progress!
Even though I've never found a deer in Kansas that can tell the difference between a 270 Win. and a 35 Whelan, I think your choice is an excellent one. Thanks for the video.
I hunt in north Alabama and have never even remotely had any trouble cleanly killing deer and smaller hogs with a .223. The Whelan is for big hogs of which we have way too many and other things that I may bump into in the dark that bite. If deer was all I shot a .243 would be plenty. Having a .35 caliber bullet that weighs 250 grains and a good rifle to go with it gives one confidence in difficult situations.
@@robertayoder2063 to the contrary, I have killed many mature bucks. Most of the deer I shoot are at bow hunting range and perfect bullet placement is not a problem. I do also only shoot premium bullets like barnes x, nosler partitions and speer bonded core when shooting deer with the. 223. The .223 is also not the only cartridge I deer hunt with. I have had serious problems killing large hogs with it no matter what bullet I shoot.in that case it just isn't enough gun.
I'm not sure but I do believe there will be a difference in capillary damage to the meat. I don't know which would be worse of the two calibers though.
@@bobgordon1754 Our southern deer are a lot smaller than the ones up north. We have a lot more deer though. I know a lot of people that kill deer with a 223.
LOVE Ruger, all my Bolt’s are Ruger’s, can’t beat them. Also have Ruger in every other style of guns I own and there mostly the best one in that style, except my “Levers” (which they don’t make 😝). Love my Henry’s. Henry and Ruger Great combo. 👍🏼🇺🇸❤️🤠
I use a Sako Black Bear in 9.3x62 on sambar deer. It points like a shotgun and is a joy to carry in the hills and gullys of Victoria's high country in Australia. By far the most popular rifle for the serious sambar hound hunter is the Remington 7600 pump in 35 Whelan. Like you said Mike throwing a lot of lead at a big critter certainly pulls them up. With Woodleigh projectiles made down here, the hand loader has ample versatility in either caliber. Thanks for sharing!
In regards to the experiantional factor and time tested results this is probably your wisest columnatiion of terminal ballistics that I've ever heard. It would apply to so many so lesser calibers as well. You my dear sir are truly a blessing to the shooting sports and Collectors as well. Thank you so much for following your calling in such a humble and articulate way....Wishing you the best....
I enjoyed the comparisons and grew up on a game farm many years ago. We had a big variety of hardware then and the three most used were 22Hornet, 7.62 and 93x62. Having had hippos comming at you through the corn fields while checking the fences in bad light with very old headlamps, you're right, always more comfortable with the 93x62
I have a .35 Whelen in a remington 700 (shilen barrel). I've taken several deer with it and will shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards with my handloads. Love your channel, great content!!! The whelen is a hammer and does not beat you up when you shoot it!
Hi Michael - Thanks for your note - and report! Great re-barrel idea; I am receiving letters from many happy Whelen owners. I had no idea how many are out there - mainly in areas where one could run into a bear or moose or elk - in addition to mule and whitetail. Withe the Whelen nothing is too big; yet the round is not quite as heavy as the 9.3x62 which sort of crosses a line. Maybe I make no sense but I know what people mean. A Whelen seems fine for whitetail and all; whil the 9.3 seems more of an African round for some reason. IMHO Thanks for being here and for your support! Cheers.
Just ran across this video. Looks like youre right on with the larger bullets. Elmer Keith is on of my favorite writer/educators on heavy bullets and I think youre saying some of the same things he said and I agree with both. Really enjoyed the video and hope many others see it too.
Sent a Winchester Stainless Classic long action to my local Smith to have it converted from a 30-06 to a 35 Whelen as I already have another 30-06. Can't wait for the build. After an Alaskan bear trip with a friend and seeing what his 338-06 with 225 grain builds did on a 600# brown bear and a couple black bears as compared to my 300 Win Mag did on a 400# black bear, I was convinced of slower and heavier bullets with larger bore than the 30 caliber.
Bullet diameter to powder ratio is very balanced in the presented cartridges. Hunting for more than 40 years in Canada and Germany, I have harvested big game with 7x57, 7x64, 30-06, 8x57IS, 375 H&H and .416 Taylor. They are all well balanced rounds and do their job with proper shot placement and well constructed projectiles. Too many modern hunters are falling for extreme speed magnums with recoil they often cannot handle and on top of that shoot unsuitable cup and core target bullets which disintegrate on impact and lack penetration. Keep up the good work, love your presentations!
I love a lot of non magnum cartridges, but my hands down favorite and would have to pick one is the 45/70 govt. It's one great round in my opinion. Silly versatile.
I was startled to see you pick up the Remington slide action. I see them rarely - as in never - in the field or on the range. I’ve had a 760 in .270 for 35 years, and love it. Slick action, never mis-feeds, quick shots, drives tacks. Keeping it forever . . . I’ve never shot a 35 Whelan. Might have to give it a try. Right on comment on 300 yards. “That’s a long way.”
I have always wanted a 35 Whelen. Back before I learned to avoid belted cartridges, I had wanted a 350 Remington magnum which was available in the Ruger 77 as well as the Remington---one of the shortened cartridges which really offered no advantage over a standard length round. In thirty years of hunting when I was in the States, the longest shots I ever took at big game was about 130-150 yards and they were rare. Never attempted further, although I would practice shooting at longer ranges for the imaginary time that I would have to take a 400 yard shot. Gotta say though, I enjoy the fact that you like that Ruger stock, knowing how you appreciate fine wood and finely stocked rifles. I am one of those guys who was shocked when Ruger--with their tradition of nicely made walnut stocks---came out with that. But, it is still a Ruger.
I live in regional Australia, and I've only ever seen one 35 Whelen. It shot pretty good, and your reasoning for that choice is fine. I've got a 30/06 and it will take the heavier bullets, close in mass to the 35 class.
Yes it will but at a slower velocity. I also have almost always had a 30-06 and I love it but I don't try to shoot the heavy bullets through it. After handloading for many years I have come to prefer a 165 gr bullet in it. It is a good balance between velocity and mass with a decent sectional density and fairly good ballistic coefficient. The 35 Whelen uses the faster burning powders and seems to put all that quick gas behind that bug bullet quickly and the 225 grain sierra boat tail spire point is just a cool looking bullet.
They still make the 7600 in 30-06 I just bought a 200th anniversary edition new from 2016. They originally went for $1,900. Know you see them around $1,100 for the 200th anniversary edition. The most beautiful gun I ever purchased. I own two now. The other 7600 I own is in 270 and it works great. Highly recommended
Remington actually discontinued the 7600 and the 7500 series. You can still find some new in shops that never got bought or on the used market for fair prices though.
Just checked and I was wrong about .35 whelen. Ammo is a lot more available than I knew, but rifle selection is still more limited than the 9.3 which is plenty limited itself. Either cartridge is great with a ton of history behind them and either one ranks amongst the very best all around hunting cartridges. Really can't go wrong either way.
I agree with you about mass. Although the Welan would not be my first choice. There is definitely a good many reasons that the old 30-06 cartridge is still used today and the one that comes to me readily is that it has a great power to weight range. I see no reason that a man cannot use a 30-06 to kill just about anything when the bullet placement is correct. That said I know a lion or cape buffalo or an elephant needs a much larger mass to make sure the game is down. The cartridge that I think anyone could use on just about anything in N.America would be the 30-06 or the Winchester .270. They are by far the best two rounds bar none for hunting in the states, as far as standard ammunition that is not considered a magnum cartridge.
@@north005 I bet a higher grain copper solid out of a 30-06 would put a elephant down. Might not be ideal, but I bet it would to it. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done. I saw Keith Warren take a Giraffe with a 270. It was acting all weird attacking stuff, so they had to put it down if I remember right.
@@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill Walter Bell was the most famous elephant Hunter with 1011 kills his cartridge of choice was 7x57 also know as the 7mm Mauser. Impressive don't you think? Thanks
@@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill Yes he was. This was in the early 1900s he lived from 1880 to 1953. 7 mm Mauser 173 grain he also used 6.5x54 159 grain and 303 British 215 grain. He was a professional Hunter . I've never wanted to shoot an elephant but this really puts things in to prospective. A lot of what we think we need is just marketing to sell us a more powerful rifle. They say his kills were quick at close range brain shot. Thanks
OldManMontgomery I don’t know of any North American game that can walk away from a 220 grain pill out of a 30-06 when it’s placed properly. Enlighten me if I’m wrong.
@@masondick4851 I wouldn't depend on the 30-06 for Alaskan bears, and for Moose or elk, it would work, but I believe that the ethical hunter should minimize the animal suffering, and a quick death is the morally correct thing to do. And with a big grizzly, you don't want to let him get revenge before he dies. Finally, you want to avoid a prolonged chase of the stricken game. In deep woods particularly, the fleeing animal can be lost, or go to a place where it is next to impossible to retrieve him.
Jacques LeFave I agree with you about all of the ethics statements but I do believe a 30-06 is sufficient for all the situations named but maybe that’s just me. I’m willing to bet the 30-30 has still taken the most moose and elk in Canada possibly North America and the 3006 is a massive step up from that load. I would have no problem sending a 220 grain premium bullet at any animal in North America within an ethical range and govern the right shot. That being said, I do have my 300 win mag which I would probably use any way.
@@masondick4851 As far as you say, you are probably correct. However, this is only sure and 'safe' (whatever that this) as long as one can get a proper shot placement and the game is not already provoked. I prefer a bit of a larger margin for error if a large bear is charging at close range.
Absolutely agree! Mass matters. Velocity only flattens trajectory, but does Not improve straight line penetration or even effective knock down potential (if you believe in that) Among my rifles I have a 9x57 Mauser which is damn near the 35 Whelan, but obsolete now. It bowls animals over. 250gr at around 2250fps. Also effective are the classic "long for calibre" cartridges such as 6,5x55 Swedish Mauser and the 7x57 Mauser which Karamojo Bell used even on elephant. Moderate cartridges that just work...
Great video .. I grew up in and around hunters who every year headed out to the forests with standard ctgs most of them you talked about ..The most common i remember was the 30-06 and the .270 that fellows used every year for deer and elk .. A few 2-3 i can think of used 6.5X55 and my father used the fine 7mmX57mm right up until he could no longer climb those hills and hunt.. Mixed in were the .243 and the .280 Remington ctg which was my first rifle i seen in a bolt action rifle .. The 30-30 win and the Savage 99 in 300 Savage was still quite popular.. In around the mid 1960's i started seeing more and more 308 rifles in the mountains ..Later on in the late 60's i seen my first .308 Norma soon followed by the 300 win mag..
Thanks for another great video. I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion as I find cartridges equally as interesting as the rifles that shoot them. My Ruger No. 1 in 35 Whelan is perhaps my favorite...but I have a lot of favorites, lol!
Another Great video! Good discussion and food for thought. My sons go to hunting rifle is a 30-06. He can shoot any cartridge he wants. If you knew his shooting history you would know what high praise that is of the 06. I toyed with getting a Kimber rifle in 35 Whelan several years ago. I didn't do it. Kind of wish I chose to get it. Best Wishes! M.H.
Thanks for reminding us of this great cartridge. I couldn't agree more about long range hunting. Shots beyond 300 yards and in some ways pushes the bounds of what is ethical.
Hi Rich - We're on the same page as usual. Is there really a need to harvest game past 300 yards? Does if make sense? We're are humans - so intelligent! We can just about do anything - but there is no need. I hunt closer and when I shoot - I am not measuring wind or ballistics tables. If at all possible I hunt to within 200 yards. Of course - there are exceptions in open country - as for pronghorn or red deer in Scotland. Take care Rich.
I turned on to my first 35 caliber in a Marlin 336/35 Rem and immediately saw the light of higher mass game bullets, but the Whelen cartridge rifles just shine when the lever gun isn't quite what is best for the greater endeavor. Thanks for the informative vids, love watching.
Thanks for being on the channel - I recently bought a .358 Norma - it kicks but what a powerhouse - I'll load it lighter and maybe even take it for deer. All the best to you.
I have taken over 250 big game animals with an "06. I have several . Ammo is relatively cheap when compared to others. 110 to 220 grain pills,so very versatile. The "06 can be easily sourced ,some others not so easy. I have a M70 .223 that I have owned far longer than any AR I own. Bought it b/c ammo WAS so cheap for it and easily available. Most folks know it is WHERE you place your shot, not so much what they are shot with. Thanks for your videos,always thoughtful and well spoken.
Great video even though I have never owned a 35 Whelen I have a 30-06 model 77 and it's one of my favorite hunting rifles. Your video has convinced me to buy a 35 in the near future.
Ive never hunted before, but my first rifle purchase earlier this year was a 7600 Carbine in 35 Whelen. It just made sense to me to get a bigger bullet cartridge. I wish the barrel was longer than 18.5 inches, but its hard to find the pumps in the longer barrel. Still, i probably lose 200 fps from the lack of barrel length, at the benefit of a lighter, more mobile rifle.
I have no experience with the Whelen, however I love all I hear about the round. Maybe I will run across one. When someone ask me about non magnum caliber for North American game, I reply with .280 AI. I do not have one of those either, but I had a Winchester model 70 in .280…. An excellent round…..crazy thing, I killed more game with the .270…🫣had it on more hunts 😁. .338/06 a contender too……Thanks, I enjoy your video’s, hugely !
Hello and thanks for your note. I think the .280 is a phenomenal round as well as the very similar European 7x64. I'd not feel limited with a .270. All the best to you.
The .338-06 looks amazing on paper, if I handloaded I'd probably have one. The only concern I have is that the bullets are likely designed for the higher velocity of the Magnum and might not perform so well on thin skinned game. The .35 cal rounds are typically a slower bunch, with the Whelen being faster then most, so the .35 bullets possibly being better performers on deer seems logical to me,
The poor man's magnum the .35 Whelen is my favorite also. Big heavy projectiles moving at above average speed is great! Near perfect case to bore efficiency in the 30-06 case too.
Oh, how exciting. I get to see a video that was just uploaded, and it's about our favourite topic. We've spoken before about this, the 8x57 and in particular the 9.3x57. Big, fat, heavy and relatively slow. Big ole hole to bleed out of, and not as much tissue damage....usually. Depending a lot on the bullet of course. I find I need my loading manual with me when I watch you sometimes.🙂
I shoot the Whelen and the 9.3x62. Both great cartridges. I have a 7600 Carbine and a CZ. Love the pump for hunting heavy cover. I have absolutely flattened some big whitetail bucks with mine.
I bought one of those paddle stocks too. My brother thought I was crazy. I mounted my M77 all weather Ruger in 30-06 on it. To me it is the ideal rugged extreme conditions setup. The M77 all weather in 30-06 was my first centerfire rifle. My only complaint was the trigger pull, which I corrected. I ordered it with iron sights on it. Even though I am using a scope on it my thought was if on a trip and the scope was damaged I would still have a functional rifle. I watch numerous videos that you do. I ejoy them and can tell you are a serious collector. I just watched the video on the Browning Citori.... great shotgun. Thanks and keep up the good work. MH
Robert Ruark's book Use Enough Gun is all about this and his personal experiences of high intensity cartridges, the .220 swift was among those after he'd shot a hyena with disconcerting result.
Dave Cook - I totally agree with the idea of a long case and heavy bullet for hunting although I dont hunt anymore . I collect guns and shoot them , reload for them , restore them . World War II guns with heavy bullets were accurate for short and long range targets , also hit hard . I firmly believe that one can make a 30/06 length case do anything for everything . I use to have a saying dont shoot anything big with something small ??? I enjoy your lectures all the time !!!! Thanks Dave
I have shot most of the large antelope in South Africa and my 30-06 has never let me down. A 165gr Accubond at 2850fps is a stone cold killer. Love the video
You are so right about about sensing recoil while hunting. I worked up very heavy .45 Colt loads for my old Vaquero and my 16" Win. Model 94. At the range, 6-12 shots were all I needed to fire the Vaquero before the unpleasant effects of very hot loads began to make things uncomfortable in my hands. When hunting though, I never even felt (or remember) the recoil from these hot loads. I took several deer with 300 gr. Semi-jacketed Sierra flat points, using about a bushel of H 110, which were extremely effective on whitetails. Also, as with my .300 WinMag, I never noticed or consciously remember any recoil in a hunting situation, even though I loaded hot 220 gr. loads for hunting. I think that recoil is something that we make too much of. Even in a home defense situation, with light pistols firing heavy defensive loads, adrenaline obliterates and neutralizes all that recoil nonsense. The .35 Whelen is a magnificent round, but it just isn't needed here in the Southeast. I'd love to own one though! Now-a-days, my heaviest caliber is the 6.5 Swede. It is the finest cartridge for medium game at reasonable distances, and is the ballistic equivalent of the 6.5 Creedmore.
I have always thought that for the hunting I do where 150 yards is a long shot, the .358 Winchester would be an excellent cartridge. Its been done before in other cartridges but the ease of using .308 brass would make it cheap to run.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
The finest all around "non Magnum" is the .280Rem. From varmints to Moose. From 120gr to 175gr, flat shooting and with good handloads in a bolt action, I easily load to within 200 or so FPS of it's big brother the 7mm Mag but with less recoil, powder and much longer barrel life. I've shot "dirt dogs"(what we called prairie dogs growing up in Wyoming) and Antelope with 120 and 140 gr bullets, Mulies and Elk with 160gr Nosler Partition and one Alaskan Moose with 175gr Nosler Partition. It's the Swiss Army Knife of non magnum calibers...
I used to be a magnum guy. Owned 3 different 7mm Rem Mags, 2 Different 300 win Mags, and a Sako 338 Win Mag. Then, I discovered the 35 Whelen and have completely given up on the magnum craze. I have customized a Rem 700 CDL SF and now have a tack driving Whelen. I live in Saskatchewan, where I can hunt moose and elk in open seasons and I haven't missed an elk in over a decade, and all taken with the Whelen. I can attest that out to 300 yards it's an emphatic killer and very forgiving if you mess up a bit. My particular rifle drives 200 grain Barnes ttsx bullets at 2950 fps without going over book loading values ... and without the massive recoil and concussion of the mags. Thank you for the video. You have confirmed everything I believe and have experienced about the 35 Whelen.
My father spent many years in the South Pacific during WW2 and used a 30-06 there. After the war he moved to Alaska and bought a pre-64 model 70 chambered in you guessed it 30-06. He topped it with a Lyman Alaskan post sight scope (also used in WW2 south pacific) and he fed our family for many years with that set up. He was a rifleman / marksman and had many medals in his closet. He only had one hunting rifle and he was very familiar with the rifle and the 30-06 with 180 grain bullets and by instinct knew where to hold at whatever range. Beware the man who only uses one gun he most likely will know how to use it. I was always amazed at his shooting ability with that rifle. He took many moose and caribou with that old 30-06 and when I inherited it I took it out and found it grouped 1 inch or less with just about anything I fed it. I use a mod. 70 stainless steel rifle chambered in 300 win mag but I know for a fact the 30-06 will do the job, my father proved it to me.
There is not a more fitting rifle to pass down than a Pre 64 30/06 , one of the greatest cartridges ever produced. It can take ANY north .American game animal with good Nosler Bullets and ot even excels as a top notch African plains game rifle .A few Professional hunters even used it back in the day to take down Elephant and Cape Buffalo.with carefully placed shots. AMAZING ROUND. IF I could own just one center fire rifle it would be A 30/06.
If a man could have a 2 rifle combo I'd say a 25-06 and a 35-06 (35 Whelen). Both reloadable on 30-06 cases. Everything from woodchuck to walrus.
It’s a beautiful story. I am a retired noncommissioned officer from the U.S. Army. I’m a firm believer in America’s cartridge 30.06. I enjoyed reading your story and it’s farther proof that 30.06 rules and all others drool👍🫡🇺🇸
Amen, brother.
@@finallyfriday. Close. I have the 35 Whelen and 7mm Mauser, covers everything in the lower '48 States. Lately, I have been harvesting feral pigs in East Texas, unlike most hunters that hunt the big boars, I leave those to them and I target the lactating sows, they are the "vector," or multiplier, of pig population, and the meat is more tender and marbled. Typically, I set it up with a farmer/ rancher, I pay them no money but I share the meat with them if they want it which they usually do. In Texas there is no season or bag limit, you only have to buy the State general hunting license, $100/ year last I checked. Most of these farmers/ranchers are handy at butchering, and we do same day and either cook it up that day/evening or pack the meat in salt and ice. It is generally lean, tender and tasty, but this depends on what they have been feeding on to some degree. The native acorns, farmers corn, soybeans, and peanuts are common and the meat is good, but it is WHY you're there in the first place to protect the crops. I hunted some that had been feeding on an onion crop, and the meat was so awful that we ended up just burying them.🤮
It is legal and efficient to hunt them over a baited patch. We let the trappers trap them in the winter months when food is relatively scarce. We start in the spring when the property has to be protected from the pigs digging up the newly planted corn and soybean plant shoots just popping up. Sometimes we target a coyote that are harassing livestock, but since they also go after the little piglets ( shoats) that survive the takedown of the sow mothers. For them, I use my 22 Hornet. My buddies will use a 22 rimfire, it works with a well placed shot. I try to recruit newcomers to the sport, this feral pig problem needs all hands on deck.
There are hunting ranches in South Texas, I avoid them, they charge a lot for people doing a public service. East Texas is my hunting ground, you can contact the agricultural Extension of the USDA in the rural counties. I know that there are bow and crossbow hunters that target feral pigs, happy hunting to all. 🤠🏹
I have a 35 whelen rifle built on a 1941 Mauser action. I use 200gr tsx bullets, for moose and reindeer. Its my favoritt hunting rifle! Thank you for your videos. Greetings from Norway
This man knows his stuff
I need to make three comments. First: I love your understated Canadian approach...refreshing not to get yelled at by a passionate but noisy presenter. Two: I have publicly said the same thing about range...300yds is long. More than three and we are talking more about shooting skill and much less about hunting ability. If you can get within 50yds of N. American big game while still-hunting or stalking you have accomplished the "art" of hunting. Three: I'd love to have a .35 Whelen but I can't get away from the sheer availability of my beloved Springfield round. Please keep up the good work I enjoyed your style and wish we could sit and have a cup of Joe and swap hunting stories! BOL
Love the 35 ever day of the year.
I agree with you. Some of us don't get around as well as we age though. So stalking through the brush to get a 50 yard shot isn't very likely. I'll take a clean shot at 250 though. I know people that complain about people putting scopes on lever action rifles. I went blind in one eye, and can't shoot iron sights, so I put a scope on my lever actions. I think the most important thing is for people to stay within their own ability. I would much prefer to keep my shots under 200 if I can though. Wind is bad news no matter how good a shot a person is.
@@TexanUSMC8089 I completely understand. My comments are largely aimed at hunting in wooded country and at young fellas who think the 500yd shots across the mountain are hunting. Open country folks on the plains etc have a whole different set of circumstances and need to use different tactics- same in your Texas brush country. BTW I use a scope even in woods- more options and improved accuracy! Deer are where you find and rarely where you want them to be!
oh, boy, does this Albertan boy ever agree with you.
@@tomdonaghy8625 I surrendered my 06 for a .308Win but...my son up in AK in the army has the iconic pre 64Win Mod 70 in 06! We hunt thickets and hardwoods at home so range is seldom longer than 150yds. I took the no. 5 NYS fair chase buck last season with my Savage .308 custom scout rifle- but a bow would have done the job. Never get over how some fellas think they are hunters when the game is in another township...I also love the British .303 round! Tell Gordon Lightfoot hello :>)
I guess I'm an old fuddy-duddy. I've owned pretty much all the magnums and big bores. My hunting is all in the lower 48, so I've returned to the .30-06 for pretty much everything out here in the West. My other rifles are fun, but that old '06 just does so many things so well for me. I've never lost an animal with one. Need a bigger bullet? Well just load up some 200-220 grain ones and you're usually good to go. Get closer to the game. In my opinion 500 yard shots should be made on targets and maybe varmints. And those don't require a big old bullet. Hunting isn't sniping.
Are you a subscriber to the belief a .308 can do everything a .30-06 can do, or are there still situations where you think the 06 outperforms?
@@north005 06 performs a bit better, its got more fuel. They are very similar, but the 06 shines a little better. All depends on what your doing. If you stay within ranges that you got desired foot pounds of energy for animal hunted, it doesnt matter what reasonable caliber you go with really. Randy Newberg gets elk, and mule deer all the time with 308. He also likes 7mm-08 for some other applications like pronghorn hunts. Most real hunters are not sniping either though. Hunt Simple has some good vids on this stuff too. Im looking forward to his 270 project Tikka. Im interested in his results.
ruclips.net/video/Ff3muZjIYVw/видео.html
If I wanted a stronger cartridge I would use an 8mm in a K-98. That being said most of my past control was done with a single shot .22 decades ago.
@@north005 In most situations, yes. The extra case capacity of th .30-06 should be superior for really heavy bullets though. I currently have rifles in 6.5x55, 7mm Mauser, 7.63x54, 8x57, .308, .45-70, .44 Magnum, and ..30-06. Those are just the big game type sporters. I find myself just taking the .30-06 when hunting.
I have been down the rabbit hole on Magnums in the past as well. They are all gone now. I just didn't seem to need them. As for the .270, I love that cartridge. I just don't have one at the moment.
When I hunt with something other than a .30-06 it's usually for the novelty of it. I have a very lightweight single shot .30-30 that's really a fun rifle and have had some fun on pigs with it. But it's not an all-arounder.
I certainly agree with that!
9.3x62 in a Mauser action or a Steyr has been thumping critters stone-cold from Africa to Alaska and every latitude in-between for over a hundred years. New bullet technology and new powders just kept it aging like a good wine.
9.3X63 mm Mauser is like a clone of .35 Whelan.
Otto Bock came up with his cartridge design in 1905. Whelen rolled out the .35 in 1922.
But yes, they're practically cousins.
I have been hunting with a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62 for a few years now on whitetail. Very effective out to 350-400 yards. Gets pretty droopy after that, but most of my deer are shot inside 150.
The 9.3x62 is European kin to the 35 Whelen velocity wise. Both great cartridges, and the ones I reach for when it’s time to settle up with Yogie’s family tree.
Good caliber.
Shoot the widest, heaviest bullet you can accurately shoot out to about 300 yards. You won't be disappointed. My favorite is the .358 Winchester (the Whelan's little brother). Its a reloader's dream. Cheap 308 brass with a bunch of common available 35 cal bullets.
Excellent commentary. I concur completely. Love the 06 AND the 35 whelan. 👍👍👏👏😀
The 30-06 has never let me down
If I had to only have 1 rifle in 1 cartridge to hunt the rest of my life... it'd be a 30-06
@@warrensciambra7968 The 400 I believe was tried before they settled on the 35. From what I've read the 400 didn't have enough shoulder and was hard to maintain headspace. Even with the 35 one must be careful to not screw up the length of the case to maintain headspace when reloading.
@@ashmerch2558 although a 30-06 is a great rifle, the 35 Whelen is just more versatile. You can buy factory loads up to 3900 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, which is 20% more then a 30-06. Plenty for elephant, and it's actually on par with a 375 H&H. Like he says in the video you can also load any 9mm bullet, so using a 60 grain pistol bullet you can hand load down to sub-sonic for shooting rats in the barn. So a 35 Whelen can replace your 375 H&H, your 30-06, your 308, your 30-30, your 45-70, your 44 Mag carbine, your 350 Legend, your 357 Mag/38 Special Carbine, your 22 Mag, even 22 LR and any other gun you use to hunt within 500 meters. This is why gun companies don't like to make/sell them, or promote them.
@@ashmerch2558 Me too...and given a second choice...it would be the Weatherby 7mm Magnum...
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 Yeah ok bud 👌🏻 It’s a good caliber but don’t try to say it’s something it’s not. 300 grain at 4260 is a lot more. And the 35 Whelen can’t replace ANY of the calibers you mentioned. Apparently you haven’t hunted much.
Started with an old American enfield in .30-06 from wwl when I was a kid about 8 or 9. I’m now 65, still love .30-06 and still shoot that same rifle and one other 06. Great caliber.
I agree, completely. I have handloaded and hunted with 25-06, 7mmRM, 300 WM, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 375 H&H and 416 RM. 35 Whelen is the most versatile round I have ever used.
I was able to get my first hunting license at 14 in Colorado. I am 67. I have been involved with many firearms and have handloaded all that time. I to went through the age of velocity and its wonders. I have as I've aged learned the lesson of mass. High velocity such as you get from a 257 Weatherby most certainly will harvest an elk at quite a distance with the result of much capillary meat contamination. The .35 Whelen and other rifles with bullets with more mass and a somewhat slower delivery create penetration. Meat damage is far less, resulting in a brimming freezer. Also the .35 Whelen pushes a 225 grain bullet easily to 2700 fps with 10 or more fewer grains of powder than a .338 mag. with push the same weight of bullet which indicates to me the 35 is a much more efficient round.
Your experience is king Russell - the .35 Whelan and the similar 9.3x62 are incredibly versatile - just as you wrote. Have a Merry Christmas!
It is satisfying to here someone that also appreciates the .35 Whelen. I am not a collector as you are but I have owned a few magnums and have relieved myself of there possession. I hunt mostly elk and have found the .35 Whelen a very efficient round for that. I love it when you say if you aren't within 300 well get closer.
Thanks Russell - Your experience means a lot. The Whelan is the ticket for elk and just about anything. A lot of people might be surprised how that round flattens if the aim is good and the distance sound. All the best.
I don’t have a dog in this race. Using a 7 Mag from here on out. But listen to this guy, he’s right on.
I've hunted with these two cartridges quite a bit while hunting plains game in bushveld conditions. The 338-06 with a 250 grain Nosler Partition will accomplish everything you need to shoot up to eland.
The 35 Whelan is noted for giving near magnum performance for its case dimensions . Great Choice !
Which provides basically the same performance as .350 Rem mag which just goes to show how meaningless the term "magnum" is
The 35 Whelen is an absolute beat, lol. Everyone want to shoot mine, but usually only a handful of shots. Now I need to build one in a bolt action and make sure it is about 9+lbs with the scope.
If properly handloaded it can give the same performance as the famous .350 Rigby Magnum of African safari fame (225 gr @ 2600 fps).
@@blackpowder4016 It is in that power range. I load 225 gr bullets to an average muzzle velocity of 2816.
@@blackpowder4016 225 grain at 2600 fps is pretty slow - for the Whelan, it can reach 2900 fps with 225 grain bullets
I don't really have anything to add to this topic of conversation, but I would just like to say you really, really, have a great channel with great people here. Take care.
Thank you System 3 - you are one of those people : )
The 35 whelen is huge in Mississippi and Louisiana. Most deer hunters own a single shot 35 whelen because we are alowed to use it for "primitive weapon" because it's a single shot 35 caliber or larger.
CVA has for sale, less than $300.
@@altruisticscoundrel indeed I have the hunter model and it shoots good.
What
Makes no since its a rifle bullet not powder n ball
@@robertayoder2063 I don't make the rules I just follow them. Muzzle Loaders, crossbows, and compounds aren't very primitive either. Ethically what is more important tradition and challenge, or a quick clean kill? Personally I just like venison and hunting so I hunt with what ever I'm allowed and gives me the best chance.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Great review and good to mention this long distance shooting issue. I have a 35 Whelen in a Remington CDL all bedded up and shoots just great. Here in Western Canada we have the whole gamut, 300+lb Whitetail and Mule deer, elk, moose, black bear, grizzly (no hunting them), Bighorn sheep and antelope. With modern powders and factory ammo (Nosler 225gr Accubond) it is now possible to achieve the same trajectory of a factory 30.06 180gr bullet with of course far more energy and knockdown power. With sheep and antelope the 200gr bullets in handloads or factory will do it within responsible shooting range. Contrary to what most TV hunting shows like to portray most sheep and antelope are shot at normal range like deer. Almost all the time hunters choose to shoot long range, not that they have to. Every year where I hunt we see grizzlies near and far all the time but on 2 separate occasions a couple close encounters at 30yds occurred. On both occasions I had my Whelen with 225gr bullets and in no way did I feel the least inadequate because I know the Whelen would have flattened them right there. When using my 06 I always have hot loaded 220gr Partitions for bear defense handy. Good for you mentioning the 35 Whelen one of the most underrated calibers for North American game.
Absolutely the 35 whelan is fantastic. It should be noted that 35 cal is also about the starting point where cast bullet performance is starting to become legit because of sufficient mass and bullet diameter. Yes the 35 whelan is good but its also good with cast bullets too unlike smaller bores.
Personally I don't have a 35 whelan but my analog for that performace is met with my 338RCM, 348 win, and 348 Ackley. They basically do the same thing with similar bullet weights but my rifle was a discounted left hand Ruger and my others are leverguns. Both are awesome for lefties.
It's been a while since I've visited your channel but it is certainly not because of the quality of your content. You are one of the most humble and yet at the same time most qualified and logical people that cover the fields of guns and ballistics, that I have found and this particular segment is just another example of that. When I saw the title of this particular chapter of your work, two calibers immediately came to mind for me (and I have been going down a similar road to yourself for ~ 60 years)... they were as you might have guessed, the exact same two cartridges that you chose. I've been trying to find what I feel are the best rifles that are available in the 9.3 x 62 and haven't settled on the best one yet but am open to any suggestions that you have. Keep up the excellent work! MLV...
I would guess the 9.3x62 could be found on nice Mauser actions all over the place. If you want a rifle of this power and as efficient there isn't a choice any better than that.
Good to hear someone talking good of the Whelen i have 2 one a Ruger Centennial model of which only 150 were made i get it out only to look at it the other is a single shot stalker it will put 220 grain bullet into the same hole at 100 yards over and over very accurate I have reloader set up just for the Whelen it is an excellent elk cartridge yes I love the Whelen.
Getting closer is the whole point of hunting!
Maybe YOUR point but everyone is different. If someone can shoot 500 yards and consistently hit and kill the animal , who cares?
You’re right on the money. Elmer Keith would agree with you as well. Fast and light has a place in the wide scheme of things but as you mentioned, the laws of physics have never changed, mass is very important. Modern bullet construction has helped fuel the need for speed but it’s not a panacea for poor bullet placement nor poor marksmanship. I have made most of shots on game inside 400 yards over my 55+ years of hunting. My longest shot to date is a measured (with laser) 425 yards on a bull elk with a 7mm Rem. It was a one-shot kill. I spotted him at over 700 yards and the closest I was able to get was 425 as I ran out of cover and about 20 inquisitive cows and the vagaries of shifting winds made getting closer impossible. I know my rifle and I know what I can do with it. I regularly shoot targets at 600 to 1000 yds and I had my ballistic cheat sheet to adjust the scope. I hit that bull exactly where I was aiming. I am disheartened by reading about these “extreme” range hunters. There are very few people who have the skills to hit a target at 1000 yds consistently. Too many variables to consider when shooting at game at extreme ranges. I have shot 1000 yd benchrest for many years with a custom Borden rifle but I would never shoot at game at that range unless it was wounded. Great video as usual.
Wow! you really hit the nail on the head. Really like the 35 Whelen . I think it was Elmer Keith that dropped a Brown Bear with it. Way back when bullets were not the best. I have 3 rifles all based on the 30-06. They happen to be 30-06, 35 whelan, and 25- 06. Each with a perfect bullet weight for almost all NorthAmerican and planes game. Now that age is catching up to me as much as I like fast magnums I really find the 30-06 based rounds are still plenty for game and human tolerance. Very well done.
There's nothing like that .473 base.
A very thoughtful trio of cartridges.
25-06
30-06
35-06
@@finallyfriday. ok m you name it but 35 Whelen is it’s proper designation.👍🇺🇸🙏🏽✌🏻🦌
I have never been a fan of "magnums."
I agree 1000%. I have used a .35 Whelen in a sporterized Mauser since the late 70s for elk hunting. When Remington came out with the 7600 in .35 Whelen (about 1988 as I recall) I jumped all over it! It is even better than the bolt gun. Very accurate and fast for repeat shots. It drops elk in their tracks with a well placed shot. It does it with a lot less recoil, noise and gunpowder than the .338 WM.
I have also used it for deer. Most of those being mule deer I took in the course of elk hunting. It isn't necessary for deer of course (and my favorite deer cartridge is the .300 Savage) but it is certainly more than adequate for deer. It is also excellent for bear and boar and I wouldn't hesitate a moment to take on big bears or moose with it.
Before the cartridge was commercialized, I used .30-06 cases and fireformed them with 5 gr. of "Red Dot" powder. On top of the powder I filled the case with cornmeal all the way to the mouth of the case (no wad is needed) and then pressed a block of paraffin wax into the case mouth, twisted it off and left a plug of wax in the case. These fireform perfectly every time! Then, just size the case in your .35 Whelen dies and load normally. I would blow out the chamber after each fireforming load. If you don't, you get funny little "dimples" in the case from cornmeal in the chamber. These don't hurt anything, but I don't like them. They will blow out the next time the case is fired.
BEWARE: These fireforming loads are LOUD !!!!!! and blast cornmeal everywhere! Shoot them *outside* where you would normally fire live ammunition. Take every caution you would give live ammunition, the wax plug would be deadly at close range. You don't need a "safe backstop" per se, just a clear area where noise and cornmeal dust won't bother anyone.
Thanks for the detailed note and instructions - you were far ahead of the game with the .35 Whelen; more people write me about it each week. The cartridge does everything well - within range. Good hunting and take care.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I probably don 't need to tell you that in the 60s and 70s when we did a "rifle build" it wasn't with an AR receiver, parts kit and a torque wrench. It was with a Springfield '03 or Mauser '96 or '98 action. I "built" my .35 Whelen on a Mauser '98 action with a custom ordered barrel and fitted the stock from a "semi-inletted" finished and checkered blank. I basically had to fit the barrel to the stock, the rest was done.
I was reading all the gun magazines of the day and Elmer Keith was one of my heroes. The .35 Whelen was a favorite of his and that was good enough for me!
He used 275 gr. bullets in it. I never tried any of those. My favorite loads push a 225 gr. Speer BTSP to 2650 fps +/- in either of my rifles (both have 22" barrels). I also tried Hornady 250 gr. RN bullets, because I was using those to load a Winchester Model 1895 in .35 WCF, but I settled on the BTSP at higher velocity for it's increased range capability.
I still have several hundred of those bullets on hand.
Incidentally, the .35 WCF is an excellent cartridge and I make fireformed cases for that one from .30-40 Krag using the same fireforming load. They are a little short, but work fine. Being that it is a rimmed case and box magazine with no need for a crimp, I just seat the bullets out to the correct OAL and the rifle never knows the difference.
For practice I use a 250 gr. cast roundnose bullet and have even used 158 gr. cast bullets intended for the .357/.38 revolvers.
Mike always makes sense. And one feels good over the fact that despite being on the other side of the world where we have extremely limited choices of firearms, everything makes sense what one reads and what one hears and sees courtesy of mike. Great Job 👍
I’ll say this of recoil: I’m 4’11” and a small framed woman. I love to shoot. I love to hunt. When I bought my first rifle, I was 15. Dad tried to get me to buy a .243WIN. For our small west Texas white tail it may have been sufficient. But I knew I wanted to take large hogs, and go elk hunting that fall. .243WIN just wouldn’t do. So the first rifle I bought was a 7MM 08 Ruger. Does just fine for white tail and small hogs. Then talked my grandpa out of his Winchester model 70 in 30-06 and my dad was ADAMANT “that’ll kick too much and you won’t ever want to shoot it!” I LOVE that gun. Will never part with it. And loved it so much I did buy a 35 Whelen, too. Shooters should not be limited in what caliber they shoot because they’re afraid of the recoil. The 30-06 and the 35 Whelen are both perfectly manageable.
Hi Stephanie, You must be a national treasure. One fellow told me that recoil is all in the mind; maybe so - and most of us have it very much in mind : ) You must have a special absorptive capacity. I knew a fellow who was 5 feet something and he could fire the biggest and most brutal rounds - I watched him one time and he just seemed to be like a spring and even reloaded on the push back. Good on you and thanks for the note. I have a hunch a lot of people brace for recoil instead of just going with it. Anyway, I'm no expert. All the best to you.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I think of it this way: do I want to rapid-fire a 300 WIN MAG? No. But- if I’m a smart shot, one shot is all it takes at an elk. And it only hurts for one second. And the reward is greater than the discomfort. 😉
Agree. Shooting off a bench at a range you think about recoil but when you are in the field you never even think about it. My 9.3 is a brute at the range but never notice it hunting.
You are correct. In the field, any shot over 300 yards is a very long shot, and they don't film the misses on youtube. There are few hunters actually taking game at very long ranges.
The 35 Whelan is one of those overlooked carriages. Good video.👍
Thanks Genesis : )
When I saw the title I waited to click on it. I wanted to think about it then hear what your thoughts were. My first thought was 30-06 then immediately I thought 35 whelen has more energy and almost as flat trajectory then I thought 270 more velocity flatter trajectory but less energy then I thought 308 was almost the velocity and energy but quite a bit less powder and more accurate. Then I started thinking this is very subjective ... So what equals the best? To whom? For what game or purpose? It's definitely difficult to argue against the 35 whelen. But I could make a great argument for many cartridges it really depends on what you want to do with it and who is shooting it. Thanks for sharing Mike 👍
Love the boxer analogy. I am a fan of both .35 whelen and 9.3x62, id have to give 9.3 the nod though not because of anything wrong with the .35 but because I refuse to handload so ammo availability is better and rifle choices are better and generally most of the hunting I do is at relatively short range still hunting through timber. There are times I do hunt more open country, in which case I carry a different rifle/caliber and I still have never shot at anything much over 300 yards. Thanks for another excellent video. This channel is great!
Hi bat, For sure the 9.3 is far more widely available and has the power edge; the bigger boxer. Thanks for the note.
good stuff , and I just bought 9.3 x 62 m 98 mauser and I like it a lot.
I'm happy that you reference to the 35 Whelen as a great cartridge. I have a 338 06 a square which is very similar and it is one of my favorite rifles. I have taken a few deer with mine it kills quickly.
The A Square cartridges don't get enough publicity. I have a 6.5-06 A Square that shoots great. I've thought about building a 338-06.
@@TexanUSMC8089 huge fan of 338-06. I put the 9.3x62 first when I got a rebore, but my next cartridge will be the 338-06.
I’ve owned a half a dozen or so 30-30 rifles. I also have a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington and I prefer it hands down to the 30-30. It’s a hard hitting round (200 grain bullets), accurate and is fun to shoot. Recoil is mild.
35 whelen is different than 35 rem bro
Hey Mike, I finally bought a 35 Whelen rifle today! It’s based on a 98 Mauser action and I’m really excited about it. But this big ammo shortage we are in will limit my fun times for awhile, since it seems very few folks around here even know what a Whelen is! I’ll keep you posted on my progress!
You can reform cases from .30-06 by fireforming them. I did this for years in my Mauser actioned bolt rifle before the .35 Whelan was a factory round.
Even though I've never found a deer in Kansas that can tell the difference between a 270 Win. and a 35 Whelan, I think your choice is an excellent one. Thanks for the video.
I hunt in north Alabama and have never even remotely had any trouble cleanly killing deer and smaller hogs with a
.223. The Whelan is for big hogs of which we have way too many and other things that I may bump into in the dark that bite. If deer was all I shot a .243 would be plenty. Having a .35 caliber bullet that weighs 250 grains and a good rifle to go with it gives one confidence in difficult situations.
U not shot many then or shot mature bucks
@@robertayoder2063 to the contrary, I have killed many mature bucks. Most of the deer I shoot are at bow hunting range and perfect bullet placement is not a problem. I do also only shoot premium bullets like barnes x, nosler partitions and speer bonded core when shooting deer with the. 223. The .223 is also not the only cartridge I deer hunt with. I have had serious problems killing large hogs with it no matter what bullet I shoot.in that case it just isn't enough gun.
I'm not sure but I do believe there will be a difference in capillary damage to the meat. I don't know which would be worse of the two calibers though.
@@bobgordon1754 Our southern deer are a lot smaller than the ones up north. We have a lot more deer though. I know a lot of people that kill deer with a 223.
LOVE Ruger, all my Bolt’s are Ruger’s, can’t beat them. Also have Ruger in every other style of guns I own and there mostly the best one in that style, except my “Levers” (which they don’t make 😝). Love my Henry’s. Henry and Ruger Great combo. 👍🏼🇺🇸❤️🤠
Ruger just bought Marlin. I pray they can make a decent and affordable lever.
Now that Ruger owns Marlin maybe you will get to see that lever action Ruger.
It's been called North America's Dangerous Game Cartridge. That's how good it is.
I use a Sako Black Bear in 9.3x62 on sambar deer. It points like a shotgun and is a joy to carry in the hills and gullys of Victoria's high country in Australia. By far the most popular rifle for the serious sambar hound hunter is the Remington 7600 pump in 35 Whelan. Like you said Mike throwing a lot of lead at a big critter certainly pulls them up. With Woodleigh projectiles made down here, the hand loader has ample versatility in either caliber. Thanks for sharing!
The grand old 35 Whelan cartridge has worked very well for me for 30 years.
In regards to the experiantional factor and time tested results this is probably your wisest columnatiion of terminal ballistics that I've ever heard. It would apply to so many so lesser calibers as well. You my dear sir are truly a blessing to the shooting sports and Collectors as well. Thank you so much for following your calling in such a humble and articulate way....Wishing you the best....
I don’t have a 35 Whelan but I do have a 71 Winchester, 348 Winchester and a 348 Ackley improved, Great video, I enjoyed watching it
Same here Lever 50. My middlebores are 338RCM, 348win, 348 ackley, and 38-55.
That .348 , Ackley is a winner, like most Ackley improved cartridges. Ackley was a genius. 🙂
I enjoyed the comparisons and grew up on a game farm many years ago. We had a big variety of hardware then and the three most used were 22Hornet, 7.62 and 93x62.
Having had hippos comming at you through the corn fields while checking the fences in bad light with very old headlamps, you're right, always more comfortable with the 93x62
I have a .35 Whelen in a remington 700 (shilen barrel). I've taken several deer with it and will shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards with my handloads. Love your channel, great content!!! The whelen is a hammer and does not beat you up when you shoot it!
Hi Michael - Thanks for your note - and report! Great re-barrel idea; I am receiving letters from many happy Whelen owners. I had no idea how many are out there - mainly in areas where one could run into a bear or moose or elk - in addition to mule and whitetail. Withe the Whelen nothing is too big; yet the round is not quite as heavy as the 9.3x62 which sort of crosses a line. Maybe I make no sense but I know what people mean. A Whelen seems fine for whitetail and all; whil the 9.3 seems more of an African round for some reason. IMHO Thanks for being here and for your support! Cheers.
As one commentor noted about the 338 Marlin Express, the 338-06 has been, like the Whelen, largely overlooked.
Just about anything based on the o6 is going to work well🇨🇦🤠
Just ran across this video. Looks like youre right on with the larger bullets. Elmer Keith is on of my favorite writer/educators on heavy bullets and I think youre saying some of the same things he said and I agree with both. Really enjoyed the video and hope many others see it too.
Thanks for being on the channel and commenting. May as well send a decent size bullet. All the best.
Great videos well said. I tend to agree regarding mass over velocity. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise.
This is a channel that should have way more subscribers than what you presently have.
Sent a Winchester Stainless Classic long action to my local Smith to have it converted from a 30-06 to a 35 Whelen as I already have another 30-06. Can't wait for the build. After an Alaskan bear trip with a friend and seeing what his 338-06 with 225 grain builds did on a 600# brown bear and a couple black bears as compared to my 300 Win Mag did on a 400# black bear, I was convinced of slower and heavier bullets with larger bore than the 30 caliber.
Wow! Bravo sir, this is an excellent video. Credible points the whole way. I couldn't agree more!
Thank you General. I try : )
Bullet diameter to powder ratio is very balanced in the presented cartridges. Hunting for more than 40 years in Canada and Germany, I have harvested big game with 7x57, 7x64, 30-06, 8x57IS, 375 H&H and .416 Taylor. They are all well balanced rounds and do their job with proper shot placement and well constructed projectiles. Too many modern hunters are falling for extreme speed magnums with recoil they often cannot handle and on top of that shoot unsuitable cup and core target bullets which disintegrate on impact and lack penetration. Keep up the good work, love your presentations!
I love a lot of non magnum cartridges, but my hands down favorite and would have to pick one is the 45/70 govt. It's one great round in my opinion. Silly versatile.
Elmer Keith is smiling in Heaven now.
Keep up the great work.
Thanks Dan - for sure he is - and was right all along. IMHO
I was startled to see you pick up the Remington slide action. I see them rarely - as in never - in the field or on the range. I’ve had a 760 in .270 for 35 years, and love it. Slick action, never mis-feeds, quick shots, drives tacks. Keeping it forever . . .
I’ve never shot a 35 Whelan. Might have to give it a try.
Right on comment on 300 yards. “That’s a long way.”
I have always wanted a 35 Whelen. Back before I learned to avoid belted cartridges, I had wanted a 350 Remington magnum which was available in the Ruger 77 as well as the Remington---one of the shortened cartridges which really offered no advantage over a standard length round. In thirty years of hunting when I was in the States, the longest shots I ever took at big game was about 130-150 yards and they were rare. Never attempted further, although I would practice shooting at longer ranges for the imaginary time that I would have to take a 400 yard shot.
Gotta say though, I enjoy the fact that you like that Ruger stock, knowing how you appreciate fine wood and finely stocked rifles. I am one of those guys who was shocked when Ruger--with their tradition of nicely made walnut stocks---came out with that. But, it is still a Ruger.
I live in regional Australia, and I've only ever seen one 35 Whelen. It shot pretty good, and your reasoning for that choice is fine. I've got a 30/06 and it will take the heavier bullets, close in mass to the 35 class.
Yes it will but at a slower velocity. I also have almost always had a 30-06 and I love it but I don't try to shoot the heavy bullets through it. After handloading for many years I have come to prefer a 165 gr bullet in it. It is a good balance between velocity and mass with a decent sectional density and fairly good ballistic coefficient. The 35 Whelen uses the faster burning powders and seems to put all that quick gas behind that bug bullet quickly and the 225 grain sierra boat tail spire point is just a cool looking bullet.
Love the 35 Whelen! It's a great cartridge that can be loaded up or down as needed.
They still make the 7600 in 30-06
I just bought a 200th anniversary edition new from 2016. They originally went for $1,900. Know you see them around $1,100 for the 200th anniversary edition. The most beautiful gun I ever purchased.
I own two now. The other 7600 I own is in 270 and it works great. Highly recommended
I bought a 7600 in .270 last year and I love it!
Remington actually discontinued the 7600 and the 7500 series. You can still find some new in shops that never got bought or on the used market for fair prices though.
Just checked and I was wrong about .35 whelen. Ammo is a lot more available than I knew, but rifle selection is still more limited than the 9.3 which is plenty limited itself. Either cartridge is great with a ton of history behind them and either one ranks amongst the very best all around hunting cartridges. Really can't go wrong either way.
Great class on ballistics. Thanks Mike. Im going to look around for a 35 whalen rifle.
I agree with you about mass. Although the Welan would not be my first choice. There is definitely a good many reasons that the old 30-06 cartridge is still used today and the one that comes to me readily is that it has a great power to weight range. I see no reason that a man cannot use a 30-06 to kill just about anything when the bullet placement is correct. That said I know a lion or cape buffalo or an elephant needs a much larger mass to make sure the game is down. The cartridge that I think anyone could use on just about anything in N.America would be the 30-06 or the Winchester .270. They are by far the best two rounds bar none for hunting in the states, as far as standard ammunition that is not considered a magnum cartridge.
I have heard the lions are thin-skinned predators, and I used to work for a guy who said he wants to take one with his .270.
@@north005 I bet a higher grain copper solid out of a 30-06 would put a elephant down. Might not be ideal, but I bet it would to it. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done. I saw Keith Warren take a Giraffe with a 270. It was acting all weird attacking stuff, so they had to put it down if I remember right.
@@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill Walter Bell was the most famous elephant Hunter with 1011 kills his cartridge of choice was 7x57 also know as the 7mm Mauser. Impressive don't you think? Thanks
@@brianlee6849 Wonder what bullet and bullet style he liked? He must of been hungry for elephant.
@@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill Yes he was. This was in the early 1900s he lived from 1880 to 1953. 7 mm Mauser 173 grain he also used 6.5x54 159 grain and 303 British 215 grain. He was a professional Hunter . I've never wanted to shoot an elephant but this really puts things in to prospective. A lot of what we think we need is just marketing to sell us a more powerful rifle. They say his kills were quick at close range brain shot. Thanks
35 Whelan is a great cartridge but i always thought it's parent cartridge the 30 06 was pretty much equal to it. Good video my friend. God bless.
The advantage of the Whelen is bullet weight. I like the .30-06 Springfield, but it is limited in weight for really big critters.
OldManMontgomery I don’t know of any North American game that can walk away from a 220 grain pill out of a 30-06 when it’s placed properly. Enlighten me if I’m wrong.
@@masondick4851 I wouldn't depend on the 30-06 for Alaskan bears, and for Moose or elk, it would work, but I believe that the ethical hunter should minimize the animal suffering, and a quick death is the morally correct thing to do. And with a big grizzly, you don't want to let him get revenge before he dies. Finally, you want to avoid a prolonged chase of the stricken game. In deep woods particularly, the fleeing animal can be lost, or go to a place where it is next to impossible to retrieve him.
Jacques LeFave I agree with you about all of the ethics statements but I do believe a 30-06 is sufficient for all the situations named but maybe that’s just me. I’m willing to bet the 30-30 has still taken the most moose and elk in Canada possibly North America and the 3006 is a massive step up from that load. I would have no problem sending a 220 grain premium bullet at any animal in North America within an ethical range and govern the right shot. That being said, I do have my 300 win mag which I would probably use any way.
@@masondick4851 As far as you say, you are probably correct. However, this is only sure and 'safe' (whatever that this) as long as one can get a proper shot placement and the game is not already provoked. I prefer a bit of a larger margin for error if a large bear is charging at close range.
Absolutely agree! Mass matters. Velocity only flattens trajectory, but does Not improve straight line penetration or even effective knock down potential (if you believe in that)
Among my rifles I have a 9x57 Mauser which is damn near the 35 Whelan, but obsolete now. It bowls animals over. 250gr at around 2250fps.
Also effective are the classic "long for calibre" cartridges such as 6,5x55 Swedish Mauser and the 7x57 Mauser which Karamojo Bell used even on elephant. Moderate cartridges that just work...
100% - the 9x57 is an unsung hero - I wish I had one; I have ammo around here and keep hoping for a Husqvarna to show up.
Great video .. I grew up in and around hunters who every year headed out to the forests with standard ctgs most of them you talked about ..The most common i remember was the 30-06 and the .270 that fellows used every year for deer and elk .. A few 2-3 i can think of used 6.5X55 and my father used the fine 7mmX57mm right up until he could no longer climb those hills and hunt..
Mixed in were the .243 and the .280 Remington ctg which was my first rifle i seen in a bolt action rifle .. The 30-30 win and the Savage 99 in 300 Savage was still quite popular..
In around the mid 1960's i started seeing more and more 308 rifles in the mountains ..Later on in the late 60's i seen my first .308 Norma soon followed by the 300 win mag..
Wise words on ethical hunting and superlative cartridge choices.
Thank you Phil!
Another good video. Mike always makes sense.
Thanks for another great video. I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion as I find cartridges equally as interesting as the rifles that shoot them. My Ruger No. 1 in 35 Whelan is perhaps my favorite...but I have a lot of favorites, lol!
I made my boss and hunting partner laugh when I told him,when it comes to guns I'm a greasy slut. I love all of them.
Congratulations I also have a #1 in .35 Whelen and I adore it.
Another Great video! Good discussion and food for thought.
My sons go to hunting rifle is a 30-06. He can shoot any cartridge he wants. If you knew his shooting history you would know what high praise that is of the 06.
I toyed with getting a Kimber rifle in 35 Whelan several years ago. I didn't do it. Kind of wish I chose to get it.
Best Wishes! M.H.
7X64 Brenneke, is good, we like it in Central-Europe! Greeting from Hungary!
Ballistically identical to the 280 Rem.
I would rather use the 7x64 Brenneke than any of the 7mm Magnum cartridges, outstanding cartridge.
Thanks for reminding us of this great cartridge. I couldn't agree more about long range hunting. Shots beyond 300 yards and in some ways pushes the bounds of what is ethical.
Hi Rich - We're on the same page as usual. Is there really a need to harvest game past 300 yards? Does if make sense? We're are humans - so intelligent! We can just about do anything - but there is no need. I hunt closer and when I shoot - I am not measuring wind or ballistics tables. If at all possible I hunt to within 200 yards. Of course - there are exceptions in open country - as for pronghorn or red deer in Scotland. Take care Rich.
I turned on to my first 35 caliber in a Marlin 336/35 Rem and immediately saw the light of higher mass game bullets, but the Whelen cartridge rifles just shine when the lever gun isn't quite what is best for the greater endeavor. Thanks for the informative vids, love watching.
Thanks for being on the channel - I recently bought a .358 Norma - it kicks but what a powerhouse - I'll load it lighter and maybe even take it for deer. All the best to you.
I have taken over 250 big game animals with an "06. I have several . Ammo is relatively cheap when compared to others. 110 to 220 grain pills,so very versatile. The "06 can be easily sourced ,some others not so easy. I have a M70 .223 that I have owned far longer than any AR I own. Bought it b/c ammo WAS so cheap for it and easily available. Most folks know it is WHERE you place your shot, not so much what they are shot with. Thanks for your videos,always thoughtful and well spoken.
Great video even though I have never owned a 35 Whelen I have a 30-06 model 77 and it's one of my favorite hunting rifles. Your video has convinced me to buy a 35 in the near future.
My love for my 30-06 is what inspired me to get a 35 Whelen and I will never regret it.
Another fantastic presentation and video. Thank you. :)
Ive never hunted before, but my first rifle purchase earlier this year was a 7600 Carbine in 35 Whelen. It just made sense to me to get a bigger bullet cartridge. I wish the barrel was longer than 18.5 inches, but its hard to find the pumps in the longer barrel. Still, i probably lose 200 fps from the lack of barrel length, at the benefit of a lighter, more mobile rifle.
I have no experience with the Whelen, however I love all I hear about the round. Maybe I will run across one. When someone ask me about non magnum caliber for North American game, I reply with .280 AI. I do not have one of those either, but I had a Winchester model 70 in .280…. An excellent round…..crazy thing, I killed more game with the .270…🫣had it on more hunts 😁. .338/06 a contender too……Thanks, I enjoy your video’s, hugely !
Hello and thanks for your note. I think the .280 is a phenomenal round as well as the very similar European 7x64. I'd not feel limited with a .270. All the best to you.
The .338-06 looks amazing on paper, if I handloaded I'd probably have one. The only concern I have is that the bullets are likely designed for the higher velocity of the Magnum and might not perform so well on thin skinned game. The .35 cal rounds are typically a slower bunch, with the Whelen being faster then most, so the .35 bullets possibly being better performers on deer seems logical to me,
The poor man's magnum the .35 Whelen is my favorite also. Big heavy projectiles moving at above average speed is great! Near perfect case to bore efficiency in the 30-06 case too.
I have 740 and 760 in 30-06, wont ever sell them, while I love lever actions, these come close and can hunt with the best of them.
9.3 × 62 rules in Germany for driven hunt big time.
338-06,has better ballistics but isn't a commercial round. This was the one Keith developed the 338OKH
I had a buddy who was not a fan of the 30-06 because it does so much, well. He preferred to use the optimum cartridge for the game he was after.
Oh, how exciting. I get to see a video that was just uploaded, and it's about our favourite topic. We've spoken before about this, the 8x57 and in particular the 9.3x57. Big, fat, heavy and relatively slow. Big ole hole to bleed out of, and not as much tissue damage....usually. Depending a lot on the bullet of course.
I find I need my loading manual with me when I watch you sometimes.🙂
I shoot the Whelen and the 9.3x62. Both great cartridges. I have a 7600 Carbine and a CZ. Love the pump for hunting heavy cover. I have absolutely flattened some big whitetail bucks with mine.
I bought one of those paddle stocks too. My brother thought I was crazy. I mounted my M77 all weather Ruger in 30-06 on it. To me it is the ideal rugged extreme conditions setup. The M77 all weather in 30-06 was my first centerfire rifle. My only complaint was the trigger pull, which I corrected. I ordered it with iron sights on it. Even though I am using a scope on it my thought was if on a trip and the scope was damaged I would still have a functional rifle.
I watch numerous videos that you do. I ejoy them and can tell you are a serious collector. I just watched the video on the Browning Citori.... great shotgun.
Thanks and keep up the good work. MH
My 30-06 savage is my favorite 😎
Translation into metric is very much apreciated 👍
Robert Ruark's book Use Enough Gun is all about this and his personal experiences of high intensity cartridges, the .220 swift was among those after he'd shot a hyena with disconcerting result.
Those Remington pump rifles are known to be tact drivers because of the free floating barrels
Dave Cook - I totally agree with the idea of a long case and heavy bullet for hunting although I dont hunt anymore . I collect guns and shoot them , reload for them , restore them . World War II guns with heavy bullets were accurate for short and long range targets , also hit hard . I firmly believe that one can make a 30/06 length case do anything for everything . I use to have a saying dont shoot anything big with something small ??? I enjoy your lectures all the time !!!! Thanks
Dave
I have shot most of the large antelope in South Africa and my 30-06 has never let me down. A 165gr Accubond at 2850fps is a stone cold killer.
Love the video
You are so right about about sensing recoil while hunting.
I worked up very heavy .45 Colt loads for my old Vaquero and my 16" Win. Model 94. At the range, 6-12 shots were all I needed to fire the Vaquero before the unpleasant effects of very hot loads began to make things uncomfortable in my hands.
When hunting though, I never even felt (or remember) the recoil from these hot loads. I took several deer with 300 gr. Semi-jacketed Sierra flat points, using about a bushel of H 110, which were extremely effective on whitetails. Also, as with my .300 WinMag, I never noticed or consciously remember any recoil in a hunting situation, even though I loaded hot 220 gr. loads for hunting.
I think that recoil is something that we make too much of.
Even in a home defense situation, with light pistols firing heavy defensive loads, adrenaline obliterates and neutralizes all that recoil nonsense.
The .35 Whelen is a magnificent round, but it just isn't needed here in the Southeast. I'd love to own one though!
Now-a-days, my heaviest caliber is the 6.5 Swede. It is the finest cartridge for medium game at reasonable distances, and is the ballistic equivalent of the 6.5 Creedmore.
Spot on!! My uncle hunts with a all weather Hawkeye chambered in 35 Whalen. Outstanding caliber for the northeastern woods
Great video, Mike! The 30-06 is a great all-around caliber for any hunting that I’d ever do. I love those beautiful custom gunstocks!!
Thanks Ron - The '06 soars.
I have always thought that for the hunting I do where 150 yards is a long shot, the .358 Winchester would be an excellent cartridge. Its been done before in other cartridges but the ease of using .308 brass would make it cheap to run.
What a wonderful and informative channel. Keep up the good work. Well spoken! Rachel
Thank you Rachel - your words encourage me.
very good information thanks
Rifle manufacturers, please bring back the 35 Whelen.
Thanks for the note - I keep sending the same request to the major manufacturers - they'll likely do some special runs.