As others have mentioned, you've basically created a loudspeaker with that box. Here's a couple of ideas. 1. Dig a hole and bury it. Have a separate watertight box above ground for the electrics but the turbine itself could be underground. 2. Rockwool. Either panels or loose. My sound engineer cousin used this stuff soundproof his garden shed studio. Reckon other ideas mentioned like gravel, sandbags. rocks, anything to fill the void in the box.anything heavy and not resonant.
As many guys mentioned, you have to separate turbine from the box. In this case, the box is something like a loudspeaker. 4 steel roads into the ground. Cutout box botom, so it goes around turbine and use a rubber as a bumper between turbine and wooden box.
Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale so from 81Db to 70Db is approx half the sound to the human ear .Which I would not say is a fail considering you just used a bit of rubber and some foam 🤓.
We had problems with noise from a local farm water pump. The farmer surrounded the pump with straw bales. It massively reduced the noise because the 'walls' were effectively 40cm thick. Cheap and extremely effective. And low maintenance. I recommend this solution highly.
As others have said - you need a more solid base and for the shed/box to not be coupled to the turbine. Either do a concrete pour or just 4 paving slabs on a bit of sand. I'd then be tempted to do a concrete block wall around it, you need some mass. May also be worth seeing if swapping the bearings helps.
You'll probably need to look at a few things in order: 1. Vibration - The motor inside will probably be causing resonance of the enclosure through it's mounting point. Use thick dampers or a gasket to cushion the motor unit (that rubber mat won't cut it) 2. Frequencies - When insulating, you need to find insulation that blocks the frequencies being produced, so you'll need to measure them, as well as the noise level. 3. Insulation Thickness - The air in the enclosure will be amplifying the sound (a bit like a speaker), fill in the empty space with a waterproof insulation mass. Mineral wool may work. 😀
Thank you. I haddnt thought about measuring the frequencies and designing it specifically for that but it sounds like a great project and something I can learn along the way
New Sub from the Americas, Love what your doing there it's a goal of mine. My suggestion is, If you have a source of rocks, build a small enclosure, soundproofing on all 5 sides and heavy on the door, then build a rock n mortar house all around and over, could take that a step further and sink the whole thing a little and get some dirt over it on a long slope and cut ya some sod out the hills and make the whole thing look like a feature of the land.
Thank you very much! I think I will have do do someting like that, it turns into a much bigger project so I may have to wait a while unti I have the spare time
I did suspect you might need that rubber gasket, but it seemed (on my headphones) a noticeable drop from before to after and that's without all of it in, I was pleasantly surprised. Not a fail. Loving the vids, been bingewatching.
Your Videos are awesome and I really enjoy watching them. I would live your lifestyle if I could. Also the river and the quietness is so smooth and nice, I really love it.
Car engine are isolated by rubber mounting to stop vibration passing into chassis, by fastening generator to the box by screws or bolts the box it will transmit vibrations into and through to the outside of box causing box to vibarate making sound waves,( if you strum a guitar in a room with another guitar in the corner it will start making resonating from vibrations) .My double glazing units have diffrent thickness glass in each units this stops any resonating passing to opposite pane of glass because they resinate at a diffrent frequency. You need a separate box that is isolated from the original box made from a diffrent thickness matirial with no gaps especially near the ground.
I was thinking about engine mounts when people were commenting about isolating the components. I diddnt know thats how sound proof glass worked I always thought it was just thicker glass thats so good to know!
I'd surround it with sand bags. Concrete would work but sandbags probably easier to get to site (empty sandbags, spade). 10dB drop is pretty good but there's no substitute for mass. Way better than the failure you suggested we'd see.
Well , most people that commented are right. You'll need a solid base (concrete slab , or prefabricated patio/garden path slabs) , because you need mas in high pitch noice reduction. As for walls , you also need some mass , be it wood (stacked wood beams) , or bricks , or just rammed dirt (clay , with some lime , or portland cement). Sound insulation can be (relatively) inexpensively achieved with ordinary foam for upholstery (with some glue over it , for moisture resistance and ordinary waterproof wood glue (diluted) can be used for that) - or just builders spray foam , but it can be very messy. Obviously , you have skills to do it , but it is time consuming , although not very expensive. I don't know what you can find (material wise) in your vicinity , but people throw away many things , especially from renovation/demolition sites. I would skip online ordering for this project. Good luck.
Thanks for the excellent comment. I seem to be taking away that I need to separate the components to stop the noise translating. I will likely build the base as you say and then sand bags or mus walls around not contacting, havent yet decided on the roof material as it cant be too heavy
@@beyondtheworkbench I forgot about the roof , but you can find in any buildung supply shop the thing that is commercially called here "Onduline" , which is a sheet wavy version of roof shingles (comes in different colours). Here it cost about 10 euros per sheet (2 meters by 0.9 meter per sheet). It can form , sort of , an "A" frame roof (over basic turbine enclosure construction - whatever it may be). It can be constructed off site and than just assembled on site , but it wold be very light weight anyway.
good work. sound is energy, you're going to need much more mass to absorb that energy. I would suggest an outer wall, leaving a cavity, of a different material from the inner wall, say ply instead of OSB, just so it has different acoustic properties, then fill the cavity with dry sand and foam particle mixture. Leave the foam on the inside, so long as it can stay dry. You could sand bag the structure, but when the sand gets wet the problem may return.
A good fail often beats a mediocre win. With a fail gives good R&D data and insight in to the underlying problems. This was good R&D. @daelra below mentioned rock wool, thats really good stuff for insulation for both noise and temps, you just dont want that stuff getting wet or it really goes bad. Where for sound often cork works really well, as well as gaps. Something like say frame of wire wool, inch gap, box of cork, inch gap, then outer wood box. That way the vibrations of the air are having the energy sucked out of them through each layer. I did similar when I was making a shed to use the 9" grinder in it a few years back to reduce noise pollution for my neighbours, worked pretty well, where this box is a lot smaller than a shed so gives you chance to do more layers. It tends to be more layers with gaps are better I've found for noise. Hope the input helps, apart from the noise its a lovely setup.
First thing that pops in my mind you could use simple cheap: - egg cartons, sponge or old wool clothing, even rockwool or plastic wool... but issue is that bulk of the noise coming at the bottom where turbine and outlet and that is not insulated in any way.
@@beyondtheworkbench I do not know about filling them, I have friends who are musicians so they use egg carboard cartoons as they are, Maybe trying to extend outlet as pipe and try to isolate that pipe, or try to measure first around box to identify where is majority of noise coming from
I must say that it was a noticeable difference. Those rubber playground tiles would do a much better job. They are about 20mm thick, and one side has these rectangle shapes. You can screw those directly to the wood. And you can cut them to size with a jigsaw. It would also help to have some draft strip sealing the top. And sand bags are a good solution as well. Another option is to use PIR foam insulation boards on the inside, and to fill any gaps with PUR foam. But you could also use expanded foam insulation boards, which are much cheaper as the PIR foam boards. But sandbags on the outside would still be recommendable, most certainly where those holes are. 👍
Thanks, I was hoping for a bigger difference but at least there is something. I had considered expanding foam to help me out so you are bang on the money with your suggestions thanks!
No. Foam designed for thermal insulation isn't what you want to lime the box with. Open celled acoustic foam or mineral wool or glass fibre is suitable.
The noise maker is the blue frame of the generator. It is acting as a speaker. It is attached to a very ridged enclosure that also amplifies the sound. rubber is not good for dampening sound.
Ah I had heard from others that the box is making the sound but I haddnt considered the actual turbine housing making it worse, It is even shaped like a megaphone
Thanks interesting i would use thick rubber / foam (salvaged inner tubes cheap yoga mats ) to decouple the turbine and pipes from the box only thoughts again thank you and good luck , looking forward to the coms episode .
Sound proofing is not overly easy when you are on a budget. Acousitic tiles and rubber only go so far to help reduce vibrations for the most part. You may want to consider having the main housing "float" on rubber feet[Hockey pucks (At least two stacked high) as legs, or an old tire]. Sitting on top of a solid base (Patio blocks, or even posts sunk into the ground) to help reduce some vibration. You will still have noise come through. Only way on a budget may be a mound of earth with a styrofoam form all the way around. Air gaps make for great sound detoning, the key is to make sure the outside layer doesn't resonate (vibrate) as well, otherwise it will enhance the noise.
Yea it feels that way I was hoping to do it cheap as the materials are so expensive! Thats a great idea as separating the base with rubber should deaden the transfer of noise
You know how along freeways theres walls along to block the sound? Try building a small wall on the side facing you and it'll redirect at lot of the noise. Doesn't have to be much, just a foot or 2 taller than the enclosure, and maybe 10 ft or so length. It should redirect a lot of noise away from your house. Remember a lot of noise will come out the bottom where the water comes out and you can't foam that.
You could add gravel to the space below to cut the sound levels from below while allowing water to still flow & as you said fill sand bags to go around the whole box 👍
Concrete base or concrete paving slab, isolate box from turbine build some small rectangular straw bales around it all in addition to the soundproofing rubber.
Keep the structure you have and make a lightweight thin panel box that fits over the pump and the pipes. Then create cages out of chicken wire to cover pipes and pump. Cover in plastic trash bags and fill any gaps with tape. Fill with expanding foam and leave to set. Voila a removable sound proof muffler box . Trust me it will cut the sound to acceptable levels. Going a step further fill the rest of the structure with rockwool and polystyrene boards .
Sand bags are a great idea, would stop the wood vibrating, like a woofa, concrete base,walls and stabbed roof would be a future plan and nearer the charge controller
I haven’t watched all the micro hydro videos, but I wondered it the jets from the valves were hitting the wheel paddles at the optimum angle? Would adjusting the angle of contact provide more efficient performance and less noise? I too would bury it in the ground. Well done so far!
I have thought about this too. The plastic case for the turbine isnt much good as it flexes so its very hard to keep the angle correct. I will be upgrading it over the next few years to someting a little better as this one was a test to see what power we got. We managed 750watts so I am happy with it but there is room for improvement
I would also look into maybe having a lid for the hole you see the stream in, the noise could likely be travelling down and up through the nearest hole :)
Try find an old car tyre with a wide tread and put in in the box around the pump.......might need to hunt around but old mini race tyres were wide and between 10 and 13 inch diameter, you could cut holes in the tread for the pipes, use 2 or 3 stacked down to the stream
When adding more foam, no need to worry about gaps - essentially they will be OK as sound absorbers... (Particularly the relatively high frequency "rumble" I am hearing within the video sound.) The main solution would be to build a high mass SOLID wall around the overall box. Concrete blocks would be ideal. A concrete slab over the top would then have two functions: sound attenuation and water proof roof... Could also use a concrete slab - easily removable - for all maintenance access.
Have considered the bearings might need grease and another smaller insulated box over the turbine. A thicker rubber base pad will cut down vibration going through the main box.
I think if some proper rubber mountings (engine type mounts) or springs could be fitted to the base that woud help alot as I suspect most of the noise will be from vibration through the wooden box. Rubber door stops might work as mountings? Then use the rubber sheet as a skirt to direct the water down. Also rockwool insulation is a great sound proofer if you twin lined the box. I understand water running out the bottom and heat build up may be an issue with my suggestions. A concrete block or rock built house would know doubt be better still.
10db is a good improvement imo. im not sure if the sheet polystyrene insulation would do better than foam, ive seen people use it for generator enclosures though. for the noise escaping under the box, try using strips of rubber between the bottom edge and the ground so theres no gap
Thanks, I had considered using some of the foam insulation sheets we have lying around here but I need them for the office we are working on so I wanted to finish that before I use up the extra
I’m no expert, big from other projects I’ve seen that mass is key. Light foam or rubber doesn’t do what we intrinsically think it does in terms of being the best performing (by price) approach to noise dampening or reduction.
The easiest and probably cheapest way to really dampen the noise would be to stuff the box full with something. Get a second hand "bean bag chair" or whatever they're called. Those are usually filled with tiny styrofoam balls. Or get a simple foam mattress, cut it to pieces and stuff it in. Fiberglass or rock wool insulation would also work. Basically anything like that, even some hay would do better than nothing. Obviously make sure it's not touching the generator. You might have to build a small frame around it.
I actually have an old mattress lying around so I may just do that to stop some of the noise in the meantime while I get around to doing the job properly
Hi Rob, I dont know if your still using this method as ive not got upto your latest video yet but i think i'd put a box around the fan its self and i'd insulate it with the board you used to skirt the caravan with. This isn't a tried n tested method by any means but just maybe the way i would of tried, Good luck i you want to try this route.. 😉👍
Thats a great idea! I am actually working on designing a sound enineered turbine to reduce the noise it puts out from the start. Although this might take me some time so I will likely do someting like your suggestion in the meantime
@@beyondtheworkbench I like the idea of you engineering a quieter version and i think so would many others.. 🙂 Also you have 2 hoses going on the same wheel although your only using 1 most of the time, Imagine doubling up and having 2 wheels 1 above the other being powered by only 1 hose each, This should reduce the level of noise it outputs and reduce wear on the bearings etc.. Then you can control the amount of power you need, or turn it up and sell the rest to the grid.. lol.. 👍😄
I would replace the rubber with Eva floor mats maybe even 2 thick where the generator fixes to the wood to really reduce the noise you need a bigger box around that box with a air gap and line it with something like acoustic rockwool
Thanks, I think I am going to have to do a serious build to make it much better so when I have some time spare from other projects I will get back to this. Your suggestions are great by the way
Subbed to you a week or so ago,great channel..i dont know if youve seen a guy called kris harbour at all,i have followed him for years now,he made his own hydro system and may have some good tips for you, anyway great content👍👊
The foam won't have much impact unfortunately, this is generally used for acoustic treatment, reduction of reflections (echo) in rooms but it has no soundproofing qualities, as in it does not suppress the transmission of sound, just disrupts it slightly. To soundproof, you would need to isolate the source of noise from the box for starters as the box acts as an acoustic amplifier and then find way to suppress the noise which remains. You actually did manage to suppress the noise a good bit. 3dB is a halving of signal/power so you actually reduced the audible signal by about 70% and bearing in mind that the ambient noise outside is probably 40-50dB or so, you should notice the noise you can hear from this turbine becomes inaudible quite a bit sooner than it did before.
i just found you and you putting out a video just for me? thats so sweet.. oh and about soundproofing.. rockwool insulation might work better and will be orders of magnitude cheaper
Odd ball idea, some spray foam on the inside walls. But use something like guttering as a mold. If that makes sense? Or just free ball it but could be messy.
You are on the same wavelength! one idea I considered was sprayfoaming the inside of egg cartons and sticking them to the walls. The only thing that has stopped me so far is that the cardboard would get wet
sound travels though solids very easy. most of the sound will become for your inclosure. the best sound proofing is in motor vehicles especially the engine and suspension. they are not solid but they are quite.
I think I will try to separate the floor from the enclosure in the next version, maybe with rubber between the contact surfaces to stop it reverberating.
Not all rubber is good at surprising sound. Motor vehicle manufacturers spend a lot of money on developing sound absorbing rubber. You can buy want looks like cotton reels made from rubber with a screw fitting top and bottom.
@@pedjamilosavljevic6235 that's true, but it would be a start, whilst other avenues are explored. When the straw bales rotted, they would be compost material.
A large amount of the noise is coming out of the bottom of the turbine. A thick rubber bucket with a few drain holes attached to the bottom of your turbine house will also make a big difference.
Mass loaded vinyl is crazy good.... To stop sound passing through you need mass - hence mass loaded vinyl which is stupidly heavy for its thickness. To reduce echo to use soft material. I think you need to be trying to add as much dense material in your situation, and don't leave gaps if possible... think about how loud a window can sound when its only a few mm open...
I haddnt heard of mass loaded vinyl but I have now! It sounds like the thing I was looking for and it also looks a little cheaper than the rubber sheets I had already got so thanks for the tip I will look at getting some when I get back around to this job
the wooden box is acting like a speaker and transmitting the sound Fix the turbine to the ground, then have the box over it but not connected. Maybe collect the water after the turbine into a pipe and have a u bend down stream to stop the sound coming down the pipe
I haddnt thought of that I suppose it is. When I get to the proper build I will keep your comment in mind and separate the floor from the walls. I should have known really as we have done sound proof walls in our flats we built before and the principle is the same.
Yea it looks like it, so many have pointed it out and for some reason it skipped me by. You can even tell it is by the way its loud infront of it when I was standing there
I got a bit confused - at the end, you turn the turbine on and suddenly you don't need to scream for the camera to hear you, the noise is 10dB lower (!!!) and you consider this a fail? :) Well, I think you did pretty well for just a piece of rubber and small bits of foam. Rockwool panels are great insulator, btw, really cheap, if you have some construction site around you, try to ask for off-cuts, might even be free. Can't wait for the Starlink vs 4G part 2, all the best!
Thanks, I was really hoping to make it quieter and 10db diddnt look like much on the meter so it felt like a fail in the moment. I am having a nightmare getting through video 2 on the starlink as there are so many settings to work through to get it working any better. I will get there though but it might be out next week
they are those self tapping screws for speedline metal studwork. You can also get some not tapping ones which I used www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive-pz-wafer-self-tapping-screws-8ga-x-1-2-100-pack/8979H?kpid=8979H&gclid=c2992ee40faa1b844e0248ce58be74d2&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_rl=1249413&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&msclkid=c2992ee40faa1b844e0248ce58be74d2&MPX_UK_SHP_MAN_S_ALL_Screws%20Nails%20%26%20Fixings&All%20-%20Screws something like that
It’s a mixture of measured loudness & perceived loudness, -10db is halving the volume, that’s a huge amount but it’s still very loud at 70db. The rubber you put in is way too thin & the foam is expensive & useless as it’s for stopping reflections not absorbing lots of sound. You could replace the rubber for a lot thicker & denser stuff, or probably most cost effective is wrap the box with RW3 acoustic wool , so you could create another box around it but don’t let it touch the sound can’t transmit through the wood. .
@@beyondtheworkbench I was thinking maybe a separate frame to hold the generator, then have the box over that, this way it won't be in contact with the box.
Can't you dump some soil over it. Think the easiest. Normally you measure the sound of your hydro, look on the frequenties which produce the most dB and match the demping material characteristics where it's most needed demping. Nice channel by the way 👍
Wow , sounds youve an impressive flow of pressurised water ..flowing through that turbine .. Erm ,i think tech ingredients ,covered something like this ... Did you think to use the sound to cancel itself out ?? As in the same frequency wave been created can cancel it from travelling far. If you understand how a bass speaker works with all the channels it travels ..it makes it easier to grasp. But simply ...recording or live feed of the sound from turbine . Fed to speakers.... inside ...cancel each other out.... My thought is ... keep things as is.. But build an enclosure ,thats more griund hugging .. but with at least 8inch gao between walls and roof .. it should deaden the sound dramtically. That rubber you used would be ideal to create a skirt for outer box ..so that itd hug the ground closer ... Byt check out tech ingridients ...like I said he cover noise cancelling.... science is his passion .... Sorry ,its Active noise cancellation ... duh ....check vid out ...it maybe a cheaoer alternative ,in cost and sweat.
@@beyondtheworkbench your welcome good sir. Its just something I watched after delving into diy rocket motors ... oh yeah ,he covers a wide variety of topics including brewing alcohols ✌ too .
I think you might be being too hard on yourself here. It definitely sounded a lot quieter. There are some great sound proofing youtube channels you could check out to assist with your design.
Those foam pads aren't really meant for soundproofing, they're for sound deadening, preventing sound bouncing round a room. Burry it in earth. That would probably do a lot for soundproofing
I think your using the wrong materials. These foam panels are to reduce reflections inside a room. It helps a bit but not as good as rockwool or cotton isolation. With any isolation start with the weakest link. With your hydro setup it’s probably the hole in the bottom.
Yea it felt like I was chasing something that wasnt going to happen with my approach. I think I will have to attack it properly with a decent structure
As others have mentioned, you've basically created a loudspeaker with that box. Here's a couple of ideas.
1. Dig a hole and bury it. Have a separate watertight box above ground for the electrics but the turbine itself could be underground.
2. Rockwool. Either panels or loose. My sound engineer cousin used this stuff soundproof his garden shed studio.
Reckon other ideas mentioned like gravel, sandbags. rocks, anything to fill the void in the box.anything heavy and not resonant.
Thanks, I think I am going to just have to add as much mass as I can to reduce the noise
As many guys mentioned, you have to separate turbine from the box. In this case, the box is something like a loudspeaker.
4 steel roads into the ground. Cutout box botom, so it goes around turbine and use a rubber as a bumper between turbine and wooden box.
Thats a great idea thanks!
Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale so from 81Db to 70Db is approx half the sound to the human ear .Which I would not say is a fail considering you just used a bit of rubber and some foam 🤓.
I did not know that! thank you very much I feel a little better about that now
I agree. 10db less noise is pretty significant 👍
10db is indeed about a halving how we experience noice.
We had problems with noise from a local farm water pump. The farmer surrounded the pump with straw bales. It massively reduced the noise because the 'walls' were effectively 40cm thick. Cheap and extremely effective. And low maintenance. I recommend this solution highly.
Thats such a good idea
You can't really better this for an idea, it would just look like a stack of bales and would have great sound-proofing qualities. Love it!
As others have said - you need a more solid base and for the shed/box to not be coupled to the turbine. Either do a concrete pour or just 4 paving slabs on a bit of sand. I'd then be tempted to do a concrete block wall around it, you need some mass. May also be worth seeing if swapping the bearings helps.
Thanks I think I am just going to have to build a solid structure to get it quiet enough
@@beyondtheworkbench Yep a concrete base is the way forward as the timber frame is resonating with the turbine and acting like an amplifier.
@@beyondtheworkbench Yes build a shed and surround it by straw bales.
You'll probably need to look at a few things in order:
1. Vibration - The motor inside will probably be causing resonance of the enclosure through it's mounting point. Use thick dampers or a gasket to cushion the motor unit (that rubber mat won't cut it)
2. Frequencies - When insulating, you need to find insulation that blocks the frequencies being produced, so you'll need to measure them, as well as the noise level.
3. Insulation Thickness - The air in the enclosure will be amplifying the sound (a bit like a speaker), fill in the empty space with a waterproof insulation mass. Mineral wool may work.
😀
Thank you. I haddnt thought about measuring the frequencies and designing it specifically for that but it sounds like a great project and something I can learn along the way
New Sub from the Americas, Love what your doing there it's a goal of mine. My suggestion is, If you have a source of rocks, build a small enclosure, soundproofing on all 5 sides and heavy on the door, then build a rock n mortar house all around and over, could take that a step further and sink the whole thing a little and get some dirt over it on a long slope and cut ya some sod out the hills and make the whole thing look like a feature of the land.
Thank you very much! I think I will have do do someting like that, it turns into a much bigger project so I may have to wait a while unti I have the spare time
I did suspect you might need that rubber gasket, but it seemed (on my headphones) a noticeable drop from before to after and that's without all of it in, I was pleasantly surprised. Not a fail. Loving the vids, been bingewatching.
Thanks! I have since re-attached it and its no longer leaking
just found your channel, amazing. love this stuff. can't wait to watch more videos :)
Thank you so much you are very kind
Your Videos are awesome and I really enjoy watching them.
I would live your lifestyle if I could.
Also the river and the quietness is so smooth and nice, I really love it.
Thank you so much. I havent turned the turbine on since that video because the solar is really good and its so peaceful!
Car engine are isolated by rubber mounting to stop vibration passing into chassis, by fastening generator to the box by screws or bolts the box it will transmit vibrations into and through to the outside of box causing box to vibarate making sound waves,( if you strum a guitar in a room with another guitar in the corner it will start making resonating from vibrations) .My double glazing units have diffrent thickness glass in each units this stops any resonating passing to opposite pane of glass because they resinate at a diffrent frequency. You need a separate box that is isolated from the original box made from a diffrent thickness matirial with no gaps especially near the ground.
I was thinking about engine mounts when people were commenting about isolating the components. I diddnt know thats how sound proof glass worked I always thought it was just thicker glass thats so good to know!
I'd surround it with sand bags. Concrete would work but sandbags probably easier to get to site (empty sandbags, spade).
10dB drop is pretty good but there's no substitute for mass.
Way better than the failure you suggested we'd see.
I think thats what I will end up doing . Thanks, I felt a bit down about it when I saw the results so glad you liked it
Content is King 👑 "Failure is success in progress" some guy called Albert told me Gran and her home was £1,ooo
"Failure is success in progress-I like the way you put it
Well , most people that commented are right. You'll need a solid base (concrete slab , or prefabricated patio/garden path slabs) , because you need mas in high pitch noice reduction. As for walls , you also need some mass , be it wood (stacked wood beams) , or bricks , or just rammed dirt (clay , with some lime , or portland cement). Sound insulation can be (relatively) inexpensively achieved with ordinary foam for upholstery (with some glue over it , for moisture resistance and ordinary waterproof wood glue (diluted) can be used for that) - or just builders spray foam , but it can be very messy. Obviously , you have skills to do it , but it is time consuming , although not very expensive. I don't know what you can find (material wise) in your vicinity , but people throw away many things , especially from renovation/demolition sites. I would skip online ordering for this project. Good luck.
Thanks for the excellent comment. I seem to be taking away that I need to separate the components to stop the noise translating. I will likely build the base as you say and then sand bags or mus walls around not contacting, havent yet decided on the roof material as it cant be too heavy
@@beyondtheworkbench I forgot about the roof , but you can find in any buildung supply shop the thing that is commercially called here "Onduline" , which is a sheet wavy version of roof shingles (comes in different colours). Here it cost about 10 euros per sheet (2 meters by 0.9 meter per sheet). It can form , sort of , an "A" frame roof (over basic turbine enclosure construction - whatever it may be). It can be constructed off site and than just assembled on site , but it wold be very light weight anyway.
good work. sound is energy, you're going to need much more mass to absorb that energy. I would suggest an outer wall, leaving a cavity, of a different material from the inner wall, say ply instead of OSB, just so it has different acoustic properties, then fill the cavity with dry sand and foam particle mixture. Leave the foam on the inside, so long as it can stay dry. You could sand bag the structure, but when the sand gets wet the problem may return.
Great idea creating a cavity to then fill. You are right I am going to have to work to keep things mostly dry for version 2
wow...the water is very clear in the river. It must be a nice place to live offgrid.
Its lovely!
A good fail often beats a mediocre win. With a fail gives good R&D data and insight in to the underlying problems. This was good R&D. @daelra below mentioned rock wool, thats really good stuff for insulation for both noise and temps, you just dont want that stuff getting wet or it really goes bad. Where for sound often cork works really well, as well as gaps. Something like say frame of wire wool, inch gap, box of cork, inch gap, then outer wood box. That way the vibrations of the air are having the energy sucked out of them through each layer. I did similar when I was making a shed to use the 9" grinder in it a few years back to reduce noise pollution for my neighbours, worked pretty well, where this box is a lot smaller than a shed so gives you chance to do more layers. It tends to be more layers with gaps are better I've found for noise. Hope the input helps, apart from the noise its a lovely setup.
Thanks, I have certainly learned a lot especially from the comments. I haddnt thought about cork thats a great idea
First thing that pops in my mind you could use simple cheap: - egg cartons, sponge or old wool clothing, even rockwool or plastic wool... but issue is that bulk of the noise coming at the bottom where turbine and outlet and that is not insulated in any way.
Thats a great idea I could even fill them with spray foam to make them even better
@@beyondtheworkbench I do not know about filling them, I have friends who are musicians so they use egg carboard cartoons as they are, Maybe trying to extend outlet as pipe and try to isolate that pipe, or try to measure first around box to identify where is majority of noise coming from
1.concrete floor will help
2. Rubber feet
3.insulate all round with thicker foam
Thanks, I think I will have to just build as you mentioned a proper structure to get it quiet enough
I must say that it was a noticeable difference. Those rubber playground tiles would do a much better job. They are about 20mm thick, and one side has these rectangle shapes. You can screw those directly to the wood. And you can cut them to size with a jigsaw. It would also help to have some draft strip sealing the top. And sand bags are a good solution as well. Another option is to use PIR foam insulation boards on the inside, and to fill any gaps with PUR foam. But you could also use expanded foam insulation boards, which are much cheaper as the PIR foam boards. But sandbags on the outside would still be recommendable, most certainly where those holes are. 👍
Thanks, I was hoping for a bigger difference but at least there is something. I had considered expanding foam to help me out so you are bang on the money with your suggestions thanks!
@@beyondtheworkbench You already have more or less 10 db less noise, which is pretty significant. So you are absolutely on the right track 👍
No. Foam designed for thermal insulation isn't what you want to lime the box with.
Open celled acoustic foam or mineral wool or glass fibre is suitable.
The noise maker is the blue frame of the generator. It is acting as a speaker. It is attached to a very ridged enclosure that also amplifies the sound. rubber is not good for dampening sound.
Ah I had heard from others that the box is making the sound but I haddnt considered the actual turbine housing making it worse, It is even shaped like a megaphone
Thanks interesting i would use thick rubber / foam (salvaged inner tubes cheap yoga mats ) to decouple the turbine and pipes from the box
only thoughts again thank you and good luck , looking forward to the coms episode .
I haddnt thought about inner tubes especially if you can get big ones! Decoupling is a must now I have read the comments
Sound proofing is not overly easy when you are on a budget. Acousitic tiles and rubber only go so far to help reduce vibrations for the most part.
You may want to consider having the main housing "float" on rubber feet[Hockey pucks (At least two stacked high) as legs, or an old tire]. Sitting on top of a solid base (Patio blocks, or even posts sunk into the ground) to help reduce some vibration. You will still have noise come through.
Only way on a budget may be a mound of earth with a styrofoam form all the way around. Air gaps make for great sound detoning, the key is to make sure the outside layer doesn't resonate (vibrate) as well, otherwise it will enhance the noise.
Yea it feels that way I was hoping to do it cheap as the materials are so expensive! Thats a great idea as separating the base with rubber should deaden the transfer of noise
You know how along freeways theres walls along to block the sound? Try building a small wall on the side facing you and it'll redirect at lot of the noise. Doesn't have to be much, just a foot or 2 taller than the enclosure, and maybe 10 ft or so length. It should redirect a lot of noise away from your house.
Remember a lot of noise will come out the bottom where the water comes out and you can't foam that.
You could add gravel to the space below to cut the sound levels from below while allowing water to still flow & as you said fill sand bags to go around the whole box 👍
That's a great idea for adding mass to the container! the sounds would also be diffused because of all the separate bits of gravel
Concrete base or concrete paving slab, isolate box from turbine build some small rectangular straw bales around it all in addition to the soundproofing rubber.
Thanks, Sounds like I need to make it really thick and separate the base
Keep the structure you have and make a lightweight thin panel box that fits over the pump and the pipes. Then create cages out of chicken wire to cover pipes and pump. Cover in plastic trash bags and fill any gaps with tape. Fill with expanding foam and leave to set. Voila a removable sound proof muffler box . Trust me it will cut the sound to acceptable levels. Going a step further fill the rest of the structure with rockwool and polystyrene boards .
Thats a really novel idea! Sounds so usefull being able to remove it too
Sand bags are a great idea, would stop the wood vibrating, like a woofa, concrete base,walls and stabbed roof would be a future plan and nearer the charge controller
I think thats the way I am going to have to go
I haven’t watched all the micro hydro videos, but I wondered it the jets from the valves were hitting the wheel paddles at the optimum angle? Would adjusting the angle of contact provide more efficient performance and less noise? I too would bury it in the ground. Well done so far!
I have thought about this too. The plastic case for the turbine isnt much good as it flexes so its very hard to keep the angle correct. I will be upgrading it over the next few years to someting a little better as this one was a test to see what power we got. We managed 750watts so I am happy with it but there is room for improvement
I would also look into maybe having a lid for the hole you see the stream in, the noise could likely be travelling down and up through the nearest hole :)
I agree I think its coming straight out of it
Try find an old car tyre with a wide tread and put in in the box around the pump.......might need to hunt around but old mini race tyres were wide and between 10 and 13 inch diameter, you could cut holes in the tread for the pipes, use 2 or 3 stacked down to the stream
Thats a great idea!
Build a turf wall around it.
I think thats close to what I will end up doing
When adding more foam, no need to worry about gaps - essentially they will be OK as sound absorbers... (Particularly the relatively high frequency "rumble" I am hearing within the video sound.)
The main solution would be to build a high mass SOLID wall around the overall box. Concrete blocks would be ideal. A concrete slab over the top would then have two functions: sound attenuation and water proof roof... Could also use a concrete slab - easily removable - for all maintenance access.
I was wondering about the roof structure, thats a really good suggestion!
Have considered the bearings might need grease and another smaller insulated box over the turbine.
A thicker rubber base pad will cut down vibration going through the main box.
Thanks, I had also thought about swapping the bearing for a lower noise one if that exists
I think if some proper rubber mountings (engine type mounts) or springs could be fitted to the base that woud help alot as I suspect most of the noise will be from vibration through the wooden box. Rubber door stops might work as mountings? Then use the rubber sheet as a skirt to direct the water down. Also rockwool insulation is a great sound proofer if you twin lined the box. I understand water running out the bottom and heat build up may be an issue with my suggestions. A concrete block or rock built house would know doubt be better still.
I agree, I haddnt thought about the contact points before but now they sound like a really important place to focus on,
10db is a good improvement imo. im not sure if the sheet polystyrene insulation would do better than foam, ive seen people use it for generator enclosures though. for the noise escaping under the box, try using strips of rubber between the bottom edge and the ground so theres no gap
Thanks, I had considered using some of the foam insulation sheets we have lying around here but I need them for the office we are working on so I wanted to finish that before I use up the extra
I’m no expert, big from other projects I’ve seen that mass is key. Light foam or rubber doesn’t do what we intrinsically think it does in terms of being the best performing (by price) approach to noise dampening or reduction.
Thanks I think I am just going to have to get some sand bags or something to properly deaden it
The easiest and probably cheapest way to really dampen the noise would be to stuff the box full with something. Get a second hand "bean bag chair" or whatever they're called. Those are usually filled with tiny styrofoam balls. Or get a simple foam mattress, cut it to pieces and stuff it in. Fiberglass or rock wool insulation would also work. Basically anything like that, even some hay would do better than nothing. Obviously make sure it's not touching the generator. You might have to build a small frame around it.
I actually have an old mattress lying around so I may just do that to stop some of the noise in the meantime while I get around to doing the job properly
Hi Rob, I dont know if your still using this method as ive not got upto your latest video yet but i think i'd put a box around the fan its self and i'd insulate it with the board you used to skirt the caravan with. This isn't a tried n tested method by any means but just maybe the way i would of tried, Good luck i you want to try this route.. 😉👍
Thats a great idea! I am actually working on designing a sound enineered turbine to reduce the noise it puts out from the start. Although this might take me some time so I will likely do someting like your suggestion in the meantime
@@beyondtheworkbench I like the idea of you engineering a quieter version and i think so would many others.. 🙂 Also you have 2 hoses going on the same wheel although your only using 1 most of the time, Imagine doubling up and having 2 wheels 1 above the other being powered by only 1 hose each, This should reduce the level of noise it outputs and reduce wear on the bearings etc.. Then you can control the amount of power you need, or turn it up and sell the rest to the grid.. lol.. 👍😄
I would replace the rubber with Eva floor mats maybe even 2 thick where the generator fixes to the wood to really reduce the noise you need a bigger box around that box with a air gap and line it with something like acoustic rockwool
Thanks, I think I am going to have to do a serious build to make it much better so when I have some time spare from other projects I will get back to this. Your suggestions are great by the way
How about putting up stone wall up just next to the turbine box between your house and the turbine. This should bounce the sound up the hill.
Great idea I haddnt thought about trying to reflect the noise from outside
Subbed to you a week or so ago,great channel..i dont know if youve seen a guy called kris harbour at all,i have followed him for years now,he made his own hydro system and may have some good tips for you, anyway great content👍👊
Thank you so much! I have been a fan of his for ages
The foam won't have much impact unfortunately, this is generally used for acoustic treatment, reduction of reflections (echo) in rooms but it has no soundproofing qualities, as in it does not suppress the transmission of sound, just disrupts it slightly. To soundproof, you would need to isolate the source of noise from the box for starters as the box acts as an acoustic amplifier and then find way to suppress the noise which remains.
You actually did manage to suppress the noise a good bit. 3dB is a halving of signal/power so you actually reduced the audible signal by about 70% and bearing in mind that the ambient noise outside is probably 40-50dB or so, you should notice the noise you can hear from this turbine becomes inaudible quite a bit sooner than it did before.
Thanks a lot! for the next one I will be doing what you say and isolate the base from the walls. thanks for the tip
i just found you and you putting out a video just for me? thats so sweet.. oh and about soundproofing.. rockwool insulation might work better and will be orders of magnitude cheaper
Thanks and welcome, I haddnt thought about rockwool as its much denser isnt it
Odd ball idea, some spray foam on the inside walls. But use something like guttering as a mold. If that makes sense? Or just free ball it but could be messy.
You are on the same wavelength! one idea I considered was sprayfoaming the inside of egg cartons and sticking them to the walls. The only thing that has stopped me so far is that the cardboard would get wet
sound travels though solids very easy. most of the sound will become for your inclosure. the best sound proofing is in motor vehicles especially the engine and suspension. they are not solid but they are quite.
I think I will try to separate the floor from the enclosure in the next version, maybe with rubber between the contact surfaces to stop it reverberating.
Not all rubber is good at surprising sound. Motor vehicle manufacturers spend a lot of money on developing sound absorbing rubber. You can buy want looks like cotton reels made from rubber with a screw fitting top and bottom.
Build a berm in between your dwelling and the hydro plant, it's cheap and effective. But the rubber and tiles wil have certainly helped a bit
Thats an idea I haddnt thought about something external to reflect the sound
I think the general consensus is - it’s the wooden box/floor causing most of the noise /vibrations
Yea I agree, after thinking about it it seem obvious but it skipped me by in the moment
@@beyondtheworkbench we all do it 🤣
You could put 4" kingspan round then tartpaulin, or even better, straw bales. Then tarps. I think straw bales would be good.
In general - yes , but those tend to rot and front side should be easily accessable.
@@pedjamilosavljevic6235 that's true, but it would be a start, whilst other avenues are explored. When the straw bales rotted, they would be compost material.
Bales are a great idea!
At least in the short term which was the solution I was trying to achieve in the video.
@@beyondtheworkbench it would be a quick solution, till you could find a better one
A large amount of the noise is coming out of the bottom of the turbine. A thick rubber bucket with a few drain holes attached to the bottom of your turbine house will also make a big difference.
That's a great idea
Mass loaded vinyl is crazy good....
To stop sound passing through you need mass - hence mass loaded vinyl which is stupidly heavy for its thickness. To reduce echo to use soft material. I think you need to be trying to add as much dense material in your situation, and don't leave gaps if possible... think about how loud a window can sound when its only a few mm open...
I haddnt heard of mass loaded vinyl but I have now! It sounds like the thing I was looking for and it also looks a little cheaper than the rubber sheets I had already got so thanks for the tip I will look at getting some when I get back around to this job
! Slabbed roof ! So yeah sand bags, logs over top, turf over the hole lot. Bit of weight inside
Thats a great idea and I think thats what we will end up doing
Feels like heaping up soil and turf around it on three sides would work well.
Yea I think thats the best solution
the wooden box is acting like a speaker and transmitting the sound
Fix the turbine to the ground, then have the box over it but not connected.
Maybe collect the water after the turbine into a pipe and have a u bend down stream to stop the sound coming down the pipe
I haddnt thought of that I suppose it is. When I get to the proper build I will keep your comment in mind and separate the floor from the walls. I should have known really as we have done sound proof walls in our flats we built before and the principle is the same.
Isn't the wooden box acting like a speaker because it's not solid enough base😊need concrete base or really thick wood
Yea it looks like it, so many have pointed it out and for some reason it skipped me by. You can even tell it is by the way its loud infront of it when I was standing there
I got a bit confused - at the end, you turn the turbine on and suddenly you don't need to scream for the camera to hear you, the noise is 10dB lower (!!!) and you consider this a fail? :) Well, I think you did pretty well for just a piece of rubber and small bits of foam. Rockwool panels are great insulator, btw, really cheap, if you have some construction site around you, try to ask for off-cuts, might even be free.
Can't wait for the Starlink vs 4G part 2, all the best!
Thanks, I was really hoping to make it quieter and 10db diddnt look like much on the meter so it felt like a fail in the moment. I am having a nightmare getting through video 2 on the starlink as there are so many settings to work through to get it working any better. I will get there though but it might be out next week
what screws did you use on the outlet of the box? to keep the rubber flaps down?
I need some for a job.
they are those self tapping screws for speedline metal studwork. You can also get some not tapping ones which I used www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive-pz-wafer-self-tapping-screws-8ga-x-1-2-100-pack/8979H?kpid=8979H&gclid=c2992ee40faa1b844e0248ce58be74d2&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_rl=1249413&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&msclkid=c2992ee40faa1b844e0248ce58be74d2&MPX_UK_SHP_MAN_S_ALL_Screws%20Nails%20%26%20Fixings&All%20-%20Screws something like that
Mass will help .Cover it in tonnes of turf and mud
I am close to just dumping a load on top to just make it quieter!
did a hole, line box with water proof membrane, put box in it, use the earth to absorb most of the sound
I agree, I think earth is the solution, its also free which helps
It’s a mixture of measured loudness & perceived loudness, -10db is halving the volume, that’s a huge amount but it’s still very loud at 70db. The rubber you put in is way too thin & the foam is expensive & useless as it’s for stopping reflections not absorbing lots of sound. You could replace the rubber for a lot thicker & denser stuff, or probably most cost effective is wrap the box with RW3 acoustic wool , so you could create another box around it but don’t let it touch the sound can’t transmit through the wood. .
Excellent thanks for the tips, acoustic wool sounds like a great way forward
couldn't be buried in the ground?
It is easier to put some dirt around and over the structure. However , OSB sheating is not good choice for basic structure for that.
It could, I am not sure I want to dig a hole right there as it might fill with water but if that could be solved then it is certaily a good idea
Could the board its screwed to be acting like a sound board? resonating, amplifying the sound?
Exactly, most people have said as much. I missed it while trying to fix the problem though so I will work on that next
@@beyondtheworkbench I was thinking maybe a separate frame to hold the generator, then have the box over that, this way it won't be in contact with the box.
You should drop a small concrete pad and then build up the walls from BLOCK. I think that you just need MASS to absorb the sound
Thanks, I think I will have to just build as you mentioned a proper structure to get it quiet enough
Can't you dump some soil over it. Think the easiest. Normally you measure the sound of your hydro, look on the frequenties which produce the most dB and match the demping material characteristics where it's most needed demping. Nice channel by the way 👍
Thank you! I think I will be using soil one way or another
the sound could be coming out the bottom maby a soil pipe to take the water away
I think I am going to have to get some really heavy materials all around to get it as quiet as I would like
Bury it if you can find a way to easily relist it for maintenance 😊
That would certainly work!
Wow , sounds youve an impressive flow of pressurised water ..flowing through that turbine ..
Erm ,i think tech ingredients ,covered something like this ...
Did you think to use the sound to cancel itself out ?? As in the same frequency wave been created can cancel it from travelling far.
If you understand how a bass speaker works with all the channels it travels ..it makes it easier to grasp.
But simply ...recording or live feed of the sound from turbine . Fed to speakers.... inside ...cancel each other out....
My thought is ... keep things as is..
But build an enclosure ,thats more griund hugging .. but with at least 8inch gao between walls and roof .. it should deaden the sound dramtically.
That rubber you used would be ideal to create a skirt for outer box ..so that itd hug the ground closer ...
Byt check out tech ingridients ...like I said he cover noise cancelling.... science is his passion ....
Sorry ,its Active noise cancellation ... duh ....check vid out ...it maybe a cheaoer alternative ,in cost and sweat.
Nice idea I haddnt considered noise cancelation as an idea. I will check tech ingredients out thanks for the tip
@@beyondtheworkbench your welcome good sir. Its just something I watched after delving into diy rocket motors ... oh yeah ,he covers a wide variety of topics including brewing alcohols ✌ too .
I think you might be being too hard on yourself here. It definitely sounded a lot quieter. There are some great sound proofing youtube channels you could check out to assist with your design.
Thanks! I wanted it really quiet but it was at least a little better. I havent turned it on since as its sunny here and its so nice!
Those foam pads aren't really meant for soundproofing, they're for sound deadening, preventing sound bouncing round a room. Burry it in earth. That would probably do a lot for soundproofing
Thanks, I am feeling like earth or sand is the cheapest and best way to go now
I think your using the wrong materials. These foam panels are to reduce reflections inside a room. It helps a bit but not as good as rockwool or cotton isolation. With any isolation start with the weakest link. With your hydro setup it’s probably the hole in the bottom.
Yea it felt like I was chasing something that wasnt going to happen with my approach. I think I will have to attack it properly with a decent structure
Just use cheap rockwell sound insulation. Its waterproof ish as well
Great idea
Cast everything in 10 cm thick concrete. The wood is working like the sound amplifyer. Concrete wont do that.
Thanks I think I will end up having to do sometihng like that
play pads or home gym pads foam giant things £9.99 home bargains same foam different shape pattern.
Great idea!
Building around with bricks would be good
I had considered some of those double thickness conblocks as the cavities could be filled after if needed
Cover it with dirt....
I think thats the best option
Pack das ding mit sandsäcken zu.
Das ist die Lösung, von der ich denke, dass ich sie tun werde