Never trust one random person's experience to determine your needs as far as something like this is concerned. I have WRg4s on my 2wd Jeep Cherokee for 2yrs now. Constant driving, 12k miles yearly. No issues. NW driving conditions. Snow, rain and dry.
Agreed. Appreciate your one random experience to be added to the conversation (LOL). As I mentioned in the video and on numerous comments, these tires are perfectly fine on my wife's Subaru Outback-- but that is a very different vehicle using a very different size. As is yours.
you leave them all year ? or you mean two seasons? i'm starting to rethink having two sets since some less then stellar but, not scrap rims. once i get more rims i can pick the best lefts overs for a second set but, with my old maxima i ran my goodyear ice wrts all year round for a few years before the trash Jatco tranny dropped 3rd gear.
I haven't used them on a Tesla, but I've been using Nokian Hakkas for the last 6 or 7 years in Seattle area winters. As you have probably heard, we have VERY wet winters here and a fairly light amount of snow. But we're about 45 minutes away from our nearest mountain pass which gets lots of snow. Neither my wife nor I have had ANY issues with the Hakkas in wet weather, they perform just as good or better than any all-season we have used. We use summer tires from early-mid March through early October on all three of our vehicles, and Hakkas from mid-October to early March. We run them on a VW ID4 AWD, a Kia Niro EV (FWD), and my Mitusbishi Lancer Evolution V and they are absolutely perfect for us in wet Seattle winters and mountain snow.
I live in the PNW too. How’s your tread wearing down on the Hakkas? Which model of tire do you use? Have you swapped them in this season too? It’s been unusually warm and dry.
WRG5 were just announced with a Kevlar fortified sidewall and sidewall warranty. Worth giving them a try when they come on the market. Stronger sidewall should take on the weight of the Tesla better, plus they are EV designed in mind so should be XL rated.
I am a Nokian All weather user. This damage seems unusual. I would write to Nokian and asking to see if they can cut me a partial rebate coupon to buy replacement of that damaged tire.
"A quick summer rain shower and you're skittering around roads like you're on ice, ..." -- hard to believe unless you're trying to drive like a hooligan .... please - what environments did you feel like you're on ice in a warm environment? Seriously - I'd like to know ...
Let me write it out for you again, please read slowly: WARM WET ROADS, COLD WET ROADS. The performance of the WRGs on WET ROADS is seriously subpar. I'm not "driving like a hooligan" and their replacements -- the Michelin CC2s have been performing marvelously. I'm waiting for more snow miles to do a video update, but their superb wet weather performance is completely opposite the garbage traction the WRGs have on wet roads.
High torque car with wide flat profile tires, expecting no slip during acceleration on wet roads might be asking a bit much out of most tires. That cut looks like road debris damage to me. Not the tire's fault.
The Nokians aren't mounted on the 21" Arachnid wheels on the car in the video, they're on the 19" wheels shown--- but I'll grant you that even Tesla's 19" size on the older S is pretty low profile compared to what would have been fitted on a car that size a decade ago... but then the brake rotors were smaller then too.
My experience with the WRG4 SuV has been quite the opposite. On a 2021 Toyota Highlander Hybrid AWD I had them for only 30k miles before they hit wear bars. Excellent traction in warm rain even in Sport and Trail mode. On a 2012 Lexus GX I have 50k miles on them and they are at 4 32nds of an inch tread life. Also excellent traction in warm rain here in Wisconsin. On the HH I also had Michelin Cross Climate 2s which lasted 55k miles before hitting wear bars and currently have Pirelli Weather Actives. In my experience winter traction was far better in WRG4 SUVs than the Cross Climate 2s. I have yet to test the Pirelli Weather Actives in winter but in warm rain they also offer excellent traction. So apples to oranges comparison but traction in warm rain has more to do with AWD/4x4 vs RWD. I have driven confidently and aggresively in warm and cold rain with all the tires mentioned without much drama. Only drama for me is ice and snow/slush planing.
This would be more consistent with our experience on my wife's Outback -- on that car the Nokians perform well. My main criticism is that with the combination of weight and torque, the WRG4s just aren't suited to our RWD Tesla and are noticeably hazardous in certain conditions compared to other tires we have used, including dedicated performace and snow tires. It could be the CC2s will have the same limitation but at least then the added tread life would offer some consolation, as you noted on the Highlander, and both tires are the same price in my area.
Amusingly, they've called it "Remedy" (LOL), but I think I'll wait until there's evidence sufficient to merit changing back from the Michelin CC2s that have, so far, been superb on my S. www.nokiantires.com/company/news-article/nokian-tyres-unveils-remedy-to-problem-faced-by-three-in-four-north-american-drivers/
Wow. I have been searching for this answer. I am a Nokian born but was attracted to Michellin CrossClimate-2 (getting sold out frequently here in Canada so kinda gave me shortage attraction bias). I still have Nokians WRG4 for my 14 inch tires still at 7/32 after 100K miles and 7 years of non-roadrash driving (I rarely make use of strong breaking). I think I will still stick to Nokians for my 18inch wheels. You should make a YT video mate about your findings, lots of folks are like me out there searching for real tested tires.
If you cannot control "spinning" any tire, in any season ("tail wagging") - learn to drive a bit more precisely for the tire you are on. I'd never track these tires, but you'd also never drive Pilot Cup 2's below 60F - right? Yes - winter tires aren't great as it gets warmer - that's a fact no matter what car you're bragging about owning ... either drive them appropriately for the environment, change them in time, or adjust your expectations. Not a tire problem - a driver problem ;) ....
Yeah, yeah Stig -- I get the throttle nuance, but the Nokian WRG4 are SPECIFICALLY marketed as year-round all-weather tires. If it were the Hakkas, that would be different-- but the WRGs are supposed to handle warmer weather without such vast changes in their grip. That's a tire problem, as it's not a progressive change at all. A quick summer rain shower and you're skittering around roads like you're on ice, on turns and at speeds that are not at all unreasonable-- in fact, they're not unlike Pilot Cups on icy roads (since you brought it up). The WRGs are just way too bipolar.
Hey there, I’ve got the Nokian W4GR tyres on my vehicle and I haven’t had the same experience as you. Not saying you’re wrong, but I don’t feel any loss of control on warm, wet, roads. Also, I used to work for Goodyear and if you store your tires stacked up like that, that may be why the crack appeared in the sidewall. Go to any tire shop and you’ll see the tires are stored vertically, not horizontally. Hope you find an all round use tire that works better for you
My understanding is that long-term they'll flat spot stored vertically-- not an issue at a store where turnover is faster. That said, my tires are mostly stored in stacks no higher than three, due to the way my workshop shelves are set up. Most are only 2 high. These were only stacked 4 high because they'd been moved up to the garage for transport. So far the Michelin CC2 have been superb -- I'm quite happy with them and they're substantially better on wet roads. But again, on my wife's Outback the Nokians have been fine, so I think it's a weight/sidewall thing.
@@NZCUTR when storing tires vertically, you’re supposed to over inflate them so you don’t get flat spots. Stacking tires horizontally is never a good method.
Michelin disagrees with you (all my tires are mounted on wheels): "If you need to store tires that are mounted on rims, hang them up or stack them. Do not store them standing upright." www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/tire-maintenance/tire-storage So does Goodyear: "...you can store mounted tires in a stack, vertically, with the sidewall facing down so that the weight of the rim isn’t pushing down on the tread of the tire during storage." www.goodyear.com/en_US/learn/tire-care-maintenance/how-to-store-tires.html And Continental: "Tires mounted on rims? Stacking is actually preferable in this case." www.continental-tires.com/products/b2c/tire-knowledge/storing-tires/ Etc... etc... But to your point, no-- I admittedly don't obsess over all the details. I don't have them bagged and I don't adjust the psi either way -- I just stack them in my workshop. There's a hot water heater and a furnace nearby--- so I probably should be at least bagging them (sigh) but, with the exception of that one Nokian, my tires are always dead by miles/wear not time.
Can't talk about Pittsburgh, but here in the Canadian Rockies, I haven't had any issues with the R5. Great in the snow, brilliant on ice, meh in slush. Dedicated snow tires shouldn't be used above a threshold temperature and usually don't come with any tread warranty due to that. I've used aggressive All Terrain tires in the snow and though they have the 3 peak mountain snow flake symbol, they are nowhere close to the snow tires when the temperature dips below -20 C or in the snow and ice
I think you are blaming the Nokian WR's for things that that are not their fault. That one tire may have been cut by road debris or vandalism. You could measure avg tred remaining and order a replacement tire shaved to match wear of the other 3. The Model S is very heavy, and if you run in Ludacris mode, you are over-stressing them. Go easy on them in spring / summer and you should be OK. Cheers.
Not vandalism -- but likely road debris. That set is long gone. I have one more set of WRG4s that I'll wear out this summer and will replace with another set of Michelin CC2s (the first set has been great so far). My S is among the slowest Teslas made now (an 85 RWD) and the Nokians' inability to grip is very obvious when using other tire sets-- they stand out for being subpar and that has nothing to do with the car's performance.
Studless Winter tires are great in ice and snow, but like you said they are horrible in the wet. In fact in europe, they are pushing an extra warning of the poor wet performance. If you wanted slightly better snow performance than an all weather tire, but not sacrifice too much wet performance. Look into performance winter tires, michellin PA4s for example. Great Video!
Interesting tidbit about the push for extra warning -- definitely needed! I'll look into the Alpins -- I feel like I'm never NOT researching tires for the Tesla, but that's partly my fault for having 3 sets of wheels and a heavy foot.
@@NZCUTR Sounds like you drive your Tesla like you stole it lol. But you definitely have a torque monster, pair that with RWD for extra fun. Also, it looks like the damage is on Nokian WR G3, on the Nokian WRG4, Nokian changed the sidewall specifically to make it stronger. On their website the market their new ARAMID (bullet proof vest material) sidewalls, and will buy you a new tire if the sidewall is damaged.
The damaged tire is a WRG3, but my other set (19s, not the Arachnids) are WRG4 and given their slippage in wet weather I think they're just all poorly suited to the Tesla-- at least a RWD one. Twitchy under power *can* be fun in the dry, but on wet pavement you just don't have that progressive sliding-- it's not predictable and quite unnerving given that our twisty roads more commonly are edged with guardrails and not shoulders. So even if Nokian would pay for it-- I don't think I want their tires anymore... assuming, of course, that the Michelin CC2s are any grippier in wet (which I have yet to purchase).
I run studded Nokian Hakka’s in the winter on our Mazda CX-5. Absolutely astounding winter tires! I live in northern Alberta and we get a decent amount os snow, ice and cold weather.
I use them mainly as my "winter" set in Massachusetts since it doesn't snow crazy but it's nice to know they are snow rated and stop shorter than my UHP AS I use the other 3 seasons.
Currently running Michelin CrossClimate2. I put them on a couple weeks ago, but weather hasn't given me a chance to make any substantive conclusions yet so I'm holding off on an update video until I have a real sense of them. So far, they're a bit less efficient (as expected, though supposedly improves after initial break in) but also quieter than the Nokians. Stability seems better as well, but I really need a high cross-wind highway drive to feel that out better.
Ran 2-sets of Nokian WRG4 on Nissan thru 4Winters in Chicago great while new .. ran year round nice ride little to soft for Summer months.. Overall great Winter Tire My 2 Vehicle now Cadillac XT5 & Nissan Sentra I put on Michelin Cross Climate 2… Can’t say enough Very Pleased with performance of tires..! Go with Michelin & I guarantee you won’t swapping season tires anymore..
I swap tires partly because I have so many wheels laying around here! I tried to sell off the Arachnids but offers thus have been insulting and one buyer just ghosted. So I may keep them for summer only use. The CC2 are being mounted up today at Costco and I'll probably put on the car ASAP so they can get the new tire slipperiness scuffed off before first snowy commute.
5:08 I noticed you don't have alot of sidewall with your setup, the sidewall of the tire is acting as a part of the suspension of the car in reality. The thing is if you hit a pothole hard enough on low profile tires you will damage the tire and possibly the wheel as well. Given the fact that EVs are heavier in general compared to fossil fuel vehicles its possible that a pothole is the culprit. On the winter tire set up I would recommend a smaller wheel giving you a larger sidewall. Road debris would cause a longitudal damage rather than a transverse damage due to the fact that the wheel is rotating. So I personally think that is an unlikely explanation for the damaged tire.
19" wheels are the smallest wheels that will fit on this era Model S. The Nokians are on 19" wheels. The only larger wheels I have are the 21" Arachnids that were on the car in the video -- the other two sets are the 19s.
@@NZCUTR Oh ok. Nokian produce EV specific variants of Hakkapellittas, that are constructed with the heavier weight EV vehicles in mind. There is a chance you just had bad luck with that particular set.
These weren't Hakkas, they're WRG -- but I think in their quest to make the rubber last year round they seriously compromised the wet weather grip. Even the Hakkas (when I had them) I would run deep into spring in their last year just to get the miles out of them and they would get squirrely in wet weather but nothing like the skittering I get on the WRGs. I've had the Michelins for a while now and they're night and day better.
this has been exactly my experience with both the WRG3 and WRG4 tires in the pacific northwest, which is perhaps the quintessential "warm and rainy" place. Red light turns green, you press on gas, tires spinning on the line on a normal day, driving like a normal guy in a normal car like a Honda Civic. I was very confident on the 5~10 days we did get snow or ice here, but for the 150+ days we have rain they are bad tires and they are just "ok" when the sun is out. Interestingly I never had this problem on the WRG2 and I remember reading a review where this guy said the WRG 2 was better than the 3 and Nokian actually sent out an engineer to meet with the guy and in the end even after all that, they had to agree to disagree. This was a Canadian newspaper many years ago. I tried Bridgestone WEatherpeaks and they were WAY better in the rain at the cost of being a somewhat worse in snow/ice. However they have extremely high rolling resistance. I will also be trying the Crossclimate 2 (or 3) as my next set of tires...
COULD YOU PLEASE SPEAK UP FOR THOSE IN THE BACK?? Just kidding... I'm glad you're not the only one who thinks these tires are not what they're cracked up to be. I'm getting a lot of "nuh-uh" replies and implications that this was my first winter with a car I've owned for a decade on it's 3rd different brand/model of winter tires. BUT I DIGRESS... The Cross Climate 2 have been great so far -- especially on wet roads. My confidence in the car's handling/grip have returned, but we've had so little snow/ice this season I haven't had an opportunity to see how they do in really bad weather... hence the lack of update video. With temps AGAIN returning to the 70s this week, I think I'll probably do a "tempered" update/endorsement later. FWIW, I think if you're shopping soon the CC2s are a pretty easy choice. In my area the price is same/better than the Nokians (yay Costco) and they're expected to have a longer treadlife.
I had my Gislaved dedicated snows on for 8 seasons on a Volvo RWD, until one blew. Then I switched to the Nokian WRG-2, then WRG3. Now running WRG-4 on a Volvo AWD, +20K miles but getting really noisy.
I can assure you (and everyone else) that's there's no paid anything here other than very recent and extremely trivial ad revenue YT shares. If I'm careful, I might be able to buy a six pack of hard cider at the end of the month-- certainly nothing I'd sell my soul over or sellout my ethics! Right or wrong, I'm simply sharing my thoughts and experiences.
Teslas are known for powerful torque which could reduce traction or wear prematurely. As for lack of traction on warm wet roads, I'll have to take your word for it. I've had a few sets of Nokians ALL WEATHER and I find that very hot dry roads, the grip is not as good, but acceptable given the very good tire performance in deep snow, rain, ice, slush etc. I live in Northern Ontario, Canada where we get just about every type of weather possible. Nokian ALL WEATHER tires in Canada are sold by a retailer called Kaltire. Kaltire and Nokian offer to replace free of charge a Nokian tire which is deemed to be damaged or punctured or worn prematurely. If you haven't already done so, you may want to look into getting a replacement tire from your dealer. Nokians ALL WEATHERS for Teslas may not be appropriate but for Hondas like I drive, they are great!
I still own Nokians after 7 years and 150K Km mileage. After 6 flat tires in last 7 years on these, they are still breathing at 7/32s. Thanks to Kaltire for their lifetime repairs.
Damn. I have had over 12 sets of Nokians across all my vehicles over the last decade racking up hundreds of thousands of miles, and have never had an issue like that splitting on the tires. How old are those WRG3? I don’t think the WRG3 has been made for over 5yrs now with WRG4 being released in early 2018 which replaced WRG3. So I wonder if some hidden dry rot was taking place which caused that splitting? 🤔 All Weather tires are kinda the jack of all trades, master of none tire. I think you’ll likely find similar abysmal performance with the Michelin especially after you get some mileage on them. It’s just the way the cookie crumbles. Electric vehicles throw a curveball into the mix for sure but I really just feel it’s best to run a dedicated studless winter tire for winter and high performance all season tire for summer.
So far the Michelin's wet weather performance is nothing short of an indictment for how bad the Nokians were. I'll do another update after more snowy miles.
Similar to what you described, did some research and settled on the WRG4' for my 2WD Model S. Not a winter tire, but close, and drive able year round. Granted I was living in Minnesota, but was getting by with other cars and all-seasons 'okay'. First thing I noticed was how poorly they handled ice, snow was serviceable, but on the ice I had less traction than the Continental all-seasons I put on my other 2 cars. The warmer months they seemed to do pretty well in the wet and dry, although I did notice after a couple seasons they started showing fine cracking (not as sever as yours) as if they were drying up. This winter I had enough, absolute death trap once the ice started. Ended up getting a set of Crossclimate 2's like you were considering, and wow what a tire! So much traction in the snow, and even in the ice they still feel safe. Hoping they wear decently year-round, only time will tell.
The damaged ones are gone now -- but they were only a couple years old. I always check the DOT date when getting new tires to make sure they're actually new.
WRG4 are really winter tires more than all season, in Europe they're sold as winter tyres. I'd suggest getting Goodyear Gen3 all season tyres for your type of use.
Goodyears have a pretty bad reputation in my region for being unusually susceptible to pothole pinches... And I can't say I was very impressed with the treadwear of the last Goodyears I had (on a Subaru).
I just put a set of Continental PureContact LS 19". I thought of getting Cross Climate but we don't get a whole lot of sustained snow. I was not happy my Yokohama Avid Ascend GT only got 25k and 51 weeks of life. Hoping the LS tires last 30k+
I want the "added assurance" of the snow flake mountain peak rating because my car is RWD, local terrain is steep and I commute before the snow plow driver wakes up and calling off work for weather isn't option.
They were several seasons old and were going to be replaced before this winter anyway, I was going to run them out over summer and just preemptively replaced instead.
No, I don't track miles very closely except on Costco purchased tires. The Nokians are so hard to source locally that every time I've bought a set I purchased from a different place because no one can seem to keep access to them (another reason I'm avoiding).
Holy shoot man! I was going to decide between WGR4 vs Michelin CrossClimate2 for 2012 Mazda3. My car has X-Ice3 which suck in winter. But now I'm worried about durability if I get the WGR4. What do you think?
The durability of the WRG4 seems quite good overall -- the key point here is that it isn't suited for the heavy RWD Tesla. The WRG4 is just overwhelmed by the torque and lateral grip is poor on warm wet roads for a car this heavy. I forgot to say it in the video, but it also leads to a swaying sensation on the highway that I think is related to weaker sidewalls. But that's all on the Tesla -- As I mentioned in the video (I think?) we also have WRG4 on my wife's 3.6R Outback and they've worked perfectly fine on that car and I have not noticed any of those issues-- but it's a lighter AWD car with (I think) a much more robust suspension. For your purposes, I'd shop by price-- see if that makes either decision easier.
I don't think WRG4 has a durability issue, we have a set on a 2006 HR-V with 40k miles, wears evenly, never had any leaks, always stayed balanced, and has performed admirably in all conditions. I am thinking they can last another 10k miles. Just like the creator here, I also had a set of Nokian Hakka R2 but on a FWD vehicle, snow traction is excellent for first 3 years but falls off by year 4 and 5 (25k miles when all said and done), wet traction noticeably awful even on a normal FWD car. Lateral grip quite poor and stability control kicks in way too often for what I consider, relatively low speeds. It was definitely time to retire them for good.
I don't know if it is just you or the whole market in your country, what you have presented in this material is pure winter tire. This has nothing to do with all season models. Michelin Crossclimate is an all season. The tires were performing exactly what they were designed for. For mild weather what you have described you better go for Crossclimate, I mean .. you don't have 3 months of snow and ice ... why buying winter tires?! Here in Romania, and I think the whole EU, the information that we get is that you start using winter tires if the temperature goes below 8 degrees (Celsius), above 8 the winter tire does not provide any sort of performance and prediction. Everything below 8 degrees they run fine ;) I bet it's the same everywhere, tires are made here in EU and tested by ADAC (all of them).
Could be a different in our markets. The WRG4 are NOT marketed or sold as winter tires. They are classified as all-weather/all-season (as are the Michelin CrossClimate). As for the rest of your comment, I answered that in the video. Pittsburgh is not tropical in winter and the tires are not performing as **I** feel they should be in some very specific conditions -- but it's the rapid/sudden decline in their performance that is the issue; if it were simply progressively worse it would be safer and more predictable, but it's not. It's a sudden loss of grip, especially on turns (without throttle) at speeds/conditions that they should be able to handle, given their stated design purpose.
That is sort of what I've done the last few years, as my 21" Arachnids have performance summer tires on them (Michelin Pilot Sport). If I don't successfully sell the Arachnids, I will replace the worn rear tires with summer tires (something less eye-wateringly expensive than the Pilots) and use those June-Sept and then run my "worn" all weathers until snow, then switch to the new ones until safe to go back to summer. It's weird fitting 3 sets of wheels/tires into a years' use but it does have the added benefit of spreading out wear and changing up the looks/handling of the car every few months.
Yes -- but those were removed from the car in Fall 2022. I no longer have the tires but if I had to guess, they may have been purchased in Fall of 2018. So the cracking would have occurred at 4 years of age... which is not an old tire when only used seasonally from 2018-2021.
Town Fair Tires and Volvo dealer say I have dry rot on the sidewalls and treads of my Nokian WR G-4's. I am going to have a Nokian dealer look at them for a claim. If Nokian makes good on warranty, I will buy the WR-G5. If not, I will forget Nokian and switch to Michelin Cross Climate 2. I did not have dry rot on the WR G-2 or G-3's. The G-4's are now impossible to balance and not have shimmy, in addition to road noise. I have less than 30K miles on them, in five years. This is on a Volvo XC70 AWD.
Hopefully, it's still an upgrade for my prius prime 2020's OEM Crapopia (ecopia) tires. I've already got a set 4 WRG3s at a huge discount and planning to swap my stock bridgestone ecopias next winter. Our winter's are pretty mild on the west coast and we get snow that last like 2-3 days tops.
Uh.... congratulations? Literally a YMMV scenario, hence the reason the video is titled "why **I** stopped recommending." The bottom line is there are better choices out there for same/less money and the Michelin CrossClimate 2s are a better tire, in my experience.
@@NZCUTR I'm not arguing, just stating my experience. I have no doubt that the torque of an EV combined with the weight will eat tires if you aren't careful.
Was looking at WRG 4 for my Jeep Grand Cherokee. I live in Toronto, Canada it gets cold here in winter snow fall is not that much. We only have 3-4 major snow falls per year. Snow does not stick around for that long . Concerned using these in the rain in summer when temperatures are hot and using during spring, summer and fall rain fall.
My only alternate suggestion is Michelin Cross Climate 2 -- but I don't have any personal experience with those (yet). That said -- remember that on my wife's Outback (lighter and AWD) we don't have these complaints-- the WRG4 works fine. It's the combination of weight, RWD, massive EV torque and (I suspect) softer sidewalls than it should have in the Tesla size.
@NZCUTR We have the WRG4 on an AWD vehicle and they are fine in warm and cold, not as good as a pure winter tire on ice though. Are the ones on your Tesla the SUV version? They have stronger sidewalls and XL rated. The regular ones may not be strong enough for the weight of the Tesla
They are XL version -- and I daresay they're notably worse on my car than the prior set of WRG3, but I can't be certain. I'm a bit dumbfounded but it's enough of an issue that I'm going to try something else for next set.
I just bought a 2014 Mazda 3 hatch. Came with stock rims and Cooper CS5 touring. I'm thinking about making a set of steelies with the WRG4 as my winter set. I live south of Cleveland. We get about 3-4 bad storms per winter and thats about it. I ran Continental Viking Contact 7 on my Focus. I got just barely 3 winters out of them. We can get 60-70 here in the middle of winter and then a blizzard the next week. Winter tires just seem like overkill here anymore. Climate change is just about making them obsolete.
And I would expect the Nokians to work well on that car -- it's a very different weight/performance category than the Tesla. We have no complaints with the WRG4s on our Outback.
What about the new Nokian Remedy WRG5's? Should be a close competitor to the Michelin CrossClimate2's....the top rated "All Weather" tire as the WRG5 is intended to compete. Considering them for my 2023 Model X LR (AWD) Pretty sure your issue is the only RWD Model S and not the tire...
See my update video from this morning: ruclips.net/video/bRjK05GmaE4/видео.html Bottom line: I'm not impressed with Nokian's manufacturing quality-- all four of these have this bald-band shown in the update video-- and given that they are usually MORE expensive than the Michelin CC2 and that they harder to source in my area, I do not see any reason why I would return to Nokian when I can get a better tire, better made and at a better price. And no-- like always-- I don't earn anything for my opinions one way or the other, but right now there doesn't seem to be a better value BY FAR.
@@NZCUTR ehhh not sure your 4 tire example really warrant swearing off the brand, especially as you say they are great on your wifes car. Ever reach out to Nokian about your issue or found other reports of the same or similar "defect"? I had the CC2's on both my 2018 Model 3 LR RWD as well as my 2019 Model 3 Performance and overall I was a fan until they got worn in where I found wet traction to be a bit lacking actually, plenty other reviews have shown the same. Granted I drive spiritedly and really pushed them regardless of the season. Treadwear and handling was very good otherwise. Point is you can always find a condition where a tire isn't ideal...many say the CC2's are noisy on Tesla's at least, I didn't think so but plenty do. In Model X sizing (265/45/20 & 275/45/20) the CC2's are at least $20-30 MORE per tire than the new WRG5's, or $60-80 more than the WRG4's that are being phased out. ruclips.net/video/XAGy8rk_ep4/видео.htmlfeature=shared
But it's NOT just these 4 with the twitchy wear bands-- which is a very different driving dynamic than a tire wearing out evenly-- there was an entire SET I had to prematurely dispose of because of the sidewall issue in the first video. There's no Nokian rep in my area, all dealers/shops and they all carry lots of other options-- most of which are now cheaper for my Model S size AND available (at least to price compare) with Costco, though local shops are usually my go-to because of better service. No. My patience with this company is GONE and the goodwill they (admittedly) "earned" by being Finnish is likewise zeroed out now-- helped in part by their slow exit from Russia after the war started in Ukraine-- after 8 tires that are sketchy. My wife's car gets like 5k miles on it a year, so those will be around longer but her alternate set is up this year and will not be Nokians.
If I was flooring it mid-corner like a Mustang owner leaving cars and coffee, I would agree--- the point is that they are suddenly losing grip even with neutral and at speeds that are reasonable otherwise. They are not progressive at all.
I could, but that puts me back in the connundrum starting a winter 2-3 years later trying to decide if I get new winter tires or try and eek one more year on the ones I've already bought. The attraction of all-weather tires is that they can be run as dedicated winters for a few years and then "retire" them to year round until the serviceable tread is gone.
@@NZCUTR Most Nokians I have seen, comes with wear indicators moulded into the tread pattern. Which removes the guess work completely when it comes to the wear of the tire.
Correct -- but better data doesn't change the decision process. You're still going to -- at least some of the time -- replace snow tires that have good tread but not good enough to make it through another winter.
You could retire your 3mm winter set to the shoulder months. Not ideal because you'd have to dismount/remount and store a 3rd set but you would get the best summer tires and the best winter tires, and still run your winter tires to the wear bars. Personally I'd run Michelin PS4S and then Alpin 5.
SNOW tires are sketchy in warm weather ("shoulder months") and the Nokians I've had -- Hakkas and WRG4-- are exceptionally bad in rain/wet roads, which are common in my area's transitional seasons. I have three sets of wheels, but the 21" wheels are summer only tires (at the moment). I do switch wheels several times a year to even out wear and preserve the newest set of all-weather tires to use as winters as long as possible.
This logic makes no sense to me. An All Weather tire is not a winter tire. But then you chose a rear wheel drive Tesla. Yeah well you got a torquey car and you are a spirited driver. Your rear tires are going to wear out very fast. Its not going to matter what tires you use because fun=worn tires. WRG4 tires are good tires for areas that have occasional snow. For instance like Portland and Seattle. I still use dedicated winter tires (winter tires do not equal snow tires - There is a distinct difference) in our Portland Oregon winters just in case. I drive people around that need to get where they are going all winter. This last winter it was a two day ice storm. Blizzak tires for the win. They take the fun right out of packed snow but ice can still be fun and they still functioned better than average. Id not even consider this job in any rear wheel drive Tesla. Id get better winter performance from blizzaks on a Ford pinto station wagon from the 1970's. I do want to try the cross climate tires and the WRG5 tires though.
Seems like no one understands-- or takes the time to even fact check-- that Nokian INDEED markets the WRG tire line as WINTER TIRES. They are not SNOW tires, but they are all weather and sold as a year round solution. From their website: "Forget the Forecast and enjoy natural versatility with our latest all-weather, four-season driving solution." My criticism is (TLDW) that they are are relatively poor at EVERYTHING and also exhibit frightening characteristics in certain types of weather. The tires are not worn when they do this, nor is the car being driven aggressively under those conditions-- WHICH IS WHY THIS IS A TIRE PROBLEM. The fact that OTHER tires DO NOT have either of these issues under that same conditions only proves that it is a NOKIAN problem. I never claimed they were better than dedicated snow tires, but rather for moderate winter use they were (hypothetically) more economical because they could also be used in the warmer months to maximize their treadlife--- if it weren't for how dangerous they were in wet conditions. Furthermore, this is possibly/partly do to poor manufacturing as discussed in this more recent video: ruclips.net/video/bRjK05GmaE4/видео.html That's as logically as I can lay it out -- but the bottom line is this: Buy something else. Michelin CC2 has (thus far) proven to me that it is better in every condition for a price that is lower in my area than the Nokian and it is more widely available.
I will never buy this brand again. Winter tyres burst at around 140 km/h on the German motorway. Super good motorway conditions between Ingolstadt and Munich. No snow. Dry road surface. Tyres were still very good. Unfortunately manufactured in Russia. How does something like this get onto our German market? A large crack in the tyre. For me, that's just rubbish!
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Never trust one random person's experience to determine your needs as far as something like this is concerned. I have WRg4s on my 2wd Jeep Cherokee for 2yrs now. Constant driving, 12k miles yearly. No issues. NW driving conditions. Snow, rain and dry.
Agreed. Appreciate your one random experience to be added to the conversation (LOL). As I mentioned in the video and on numerous comments, these tires are perfectly fine on my wife's Subaru Outback-- but that is a very different vehicle using a very different size. As is yours.
you leave them all year ? or you mean two seasons? i'm starting to rethink having two sets since some less then stellar but, not scrap rims. once i get more rims i can pick the best lefts overs for a second set but, with my old maxima i ran my goodyear ice wrts all year round for a few years before the trash Jatco tranny dropped 3rd gear.
I haven't used them on a Tesla, but I've been using Nokian Hakkas for the last 6 or 7 years in Seattle area winters. As you have probably heard, we have VERY wet winters here and a fairly light amount of snow. But we're about 45 minutes away from our nearest mountain pass which gets lots of snow. Neither my wife nor I have had ANY issues with the Hakkas in wet weather, they perform just as good or better than any all-season we have used. We use summer tires from early-mid March through early October on all three of our vehicles, and Hakkas from mid-October to early March. We run them on a VW ID4 AWD, a Kia Niro EV (FWD), and my Mitusbishi Lancer Evolution V and they are absolutely perfect for us in wet Seattle winters and mountain snow.
I live in the PNW too. How’s your tread wearing down on the Hakkas? Which model of tire do you use? Have you swapped them in this season too? It’s been unusually warm and dry.
WRG5 were just announced with a Kevlar fortified sidewall and sidewall warranty. Worth giving them a try when they come on the market. Stronger sidewall should take on the weight of the Tesla better, plus they are EV designed in mind so should be XL rated.
Yes. Your tire was damaged by debris or vandalism.
I am a Nokian All weather user. This damage seems unusual. I would write to Nokian and asking to see if they can cut me a partial rebate coupon to buy replacement of that damaged tire.
"A quick summer rain shower and you're skittering around roads like you're on ice, ..." -- hard to believe unless you're trying to drive like a hooligan .... please - what environments did you feel like you're on ice in a warm environment? Seriously - I'd like to know ...
Let me write it out for you again, please read slowly: WARM WET ROADS, COLD WET ROADS. The performance of the WRGs on WET ROADS is seriously subpar. I'm not "driving like a hooligan" and their replacements -- the Michelin CC2s have been performing marvelously. I'm waiting for more snow miles to do a video update, but their superb wet weather performance is completely opposite the garbage traction the WRGs have on wet roads.
High torque car with wide flat profile tires, expecting no slip during acceleration on wet roads might be asking a bit much out of most tires. That cut looks like road debris damage to me. Not the tire's fault.
The Nokians aren't mounted on the 21" Arachnid wheels on the car in the video, they're on the 19" wheels shown--- but I'll grant you that even Tesla's 19" size on the older S is pretty low profile compared to what would have been fitted on a car that size a decade ago... but then the brake rotors were smaller then too.
Right! Not Nokian's fault
My experience with the WRG4 SuV has been quite the opposite. On a 2021 Toyota Highlander Hybrid AWD I had them for only 30k miles before they hit wear bars. Excellent traction in warm rain even in Sport and Trail mode. On a 2012 Lexus GX I have 50k miles on them and they are at 4 32nds of an inch tread life. Also excellent traction in warm rain here in Wisconsin. On the HH I also had Michelin Cross Climate 2s which lasted 55k miles before hitting wear bars and currently have Pirelli Weather Actives. In my experience winter traction was far better in WRG4 SUVs than the Cross Climate 2s. I have yet to test the Pirelli Weather Actives in winter but in warm rain they also offer excellent traction. So apples to oranges comparison but traction in warm rain has more to do with AWD/4x4 vs RWD. I have driven confidently and aggresively in warm and cold rain with all the tires mentioned without much drama. Only drama for me is ice and snow/slush planing.
This would be more consistent with our experience on my wife's Outback -- on that car the Nokians perform well. My main criticism is that with the combination of weight and torque, the WRG4s just aren't suited to our RWD Tesla and are noticeably hazardous in certain conditions compared to other tires we have used, including dedicated performace and snow tires. It could be the CC2s will have the same limitation but at least then the added tread life would offer some consolation, as you noted on the Highlander, and both tires are the same price in my area.
WRG5 is out now and they are designed with EVs in mind.
Amusingly, they've called it "Remedy" (LOL), but I think I'll wait until there's evidence sufficient to merit changing back from the Michelin CC2s that have, so far, been superb on my S.
www.nokiantires.com/company/news-article/nokian-tyres-unveils-remedy-to-problem-faced-by-three-in-four-north-american-drivers/
@@NZCUTR I'll be getting these in the Summer
Wow. I have been searching for this answer. I am a Nokian born but was attracted to Michellin CrossClimate-2 (getting sold out frequently here in Canada so kinda gave me shortage attraction bias). I still have Nokians WRG4 for my 14 inch tires still at 7/32 after 100K miles and 7 years of non-roadrash driving (I rarely make use of strong breaking). I think I will still stick to Nokians for my 18inch wheels. You should make a YT video mate about your findings, lots of folks are like me out there searching for real tested tires.
If you cannot control "spinning" any tire, in any season ("tail wagging") - learn to drive a bit more precisely for the tire you are on. I'd never track these tires, but you'd also never drive Pilot Cup 2's below 60F - right? Yes - winter tires aren't great as it gets warmer - that's a fact no matter what car you're bragging about owning ... either drive them appropriately for the environment, change them in time, or adjust your expectations. Not a tire problem - a driver problem ;) ....
Yeah, yeah Stig -- I get the throttle nuance, but the Nokian WRG4 are SPECIFICALLY marketed as year-round all-weather tires. If it were the Hakkas, that would be different-- but the WRGs are supposed to handle warmer weather without such vast changes in their grip. That's a tire problem, as it's not a progressive change at all. A quick summer rain shower and you're skittering around roads like you're on ice, on turns and at speeds that are not at all unreasonable-- in fact, they're not unlike Pilot Cups on icy roads (since you brought it up). The WRGs are just way too bipolar.
I have a Cayenne Turbo GT and run Nokian R5’s on the stock 22” wheels in MN. Tested other winter tires and nothing compares to the R5.
That's a completely different tire and completely different weather conditions.... but okay.
Hey there,
I’ve got the Nokian W4GR tyres on my vehicle and I haven’t had the same experience as you. Not saying you’re wrong, but I don’t feel any loss of control on warm, wet, roads. Also, I used to work for Goodyear and if you store your tires stacked up like that, that may be why the crack appeared in the sidewall. Go to any tire shop and you’ll see the tires are stored vertically, not horizontally. Hope you find an all round use tire that works better for you
My understanding is that long-term they'll flat spot stored vertically-- not an issue at a store where turnover is faster. That said, my tires are mostly stored in stacks no higher than three, due to the way my workshop shelves are set up. Most are only 2 high. These were only stacked 4 high because they'd been moved up to the garage for transport. So far the Michelin CC2 have been superb -- I'm quite happy with them and they're substantially better on wet roads. But again, on my wife's Outback the Nokians have been fine, so I think it's a weight/sidewall thing.
@@NZCUTR when storing tires vertically, you’re supposed to over inflate them so you don’t get flat spots. Stacking tires horizontally is never a good method.
Michelin disagrees with you (all my tires are mounted on wheels):
"If you need to store tires that are mounted on rims, hang them up or stack them. Do not store them standing upright."
www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/tire-maintenance/tire-storage
So does Goodyear:
"...you can store mounted tires in a stack, vertically, with the sidewall facing down so that the weight of the rim isn’t pushing down on the tread of the tire during storage."
www.goodyear.com/en_US/learn/tire-care-maintenance/how-to-store-tires.html
And Continental:
"Tires mounted on rims? Stacking is actually preferable in this case."
www.continental-tires.com/products/b2c/tire-knowledge/storing-tires/
Etc... etc...
But to your point, no-- I admittedly don't obsess over all the details. I don't have them bagged and I don't adjust the psi either way -- I just stack them in my workshop. There's a hot water heater and a furnace nearby--- so I probably should be at least bagging them (sigh) but, with the exception of that one Nokian, my tires are always dead by miles/wear not time.
Tesla with the weight and the power will go through any tire you put on that car
Can't talk about Pittsburgh, but here in the Canadian Rockies, I haven't had any issues with the R5. Great in the snow, brilliant on ice, meh in slush. Dedicated snow tires shouldn't be used above a threshold temperature and usually don't come with any tread warranty due to that. I've used aggressive All Terrain tires in the snow and though they have the 3 peak mountain snow flake symbol, they are nowhere close to the snow tires when the temperature dips below -20 C or in the snow and ice
I think you are blaming the Nokian WR's for things that that are not their fault. That one tire may have been cut by road debris or vandalism. You could measure avg tred remaining and order a replacement tire shaved to match wear of the other 3. The Model S is very heavy, and if you run in Ludacris mode, you are over-stressing them. Go easy on them in spring / summer and you should be OK. Cheers.
Not vandalism -- but likely road debris. That set is long gone. I have one more set of WRG4s that I'll wear out this summer and will replace with another set of Michelin CC2s (the first set has been great so far).
My S is among the slowest Teslas made now (an 85 RWD) and the Nokians' inability to grip is very obvious when using other tire sets-- they stand out for being subpar and that has nothing to do with the car's performance.
Studless Winter tires are great in ice and snow, but like you said they are horrible in the wet. In fact in europe, they are pushing an extra warning of the poor wet performance. If you wanted slightly better snow performance than an all weather tire, but not sacrifice too much wet performance. Look into performance winter tires, michellin PA4s for example. Great Video!
Interesting tidbit about the push for extra warning -- definitely needed! I'll look into the Alpins -- I feel like I'm never NOT researching tires for the Tesla, but that's partly my fault for having 3 sets of wheels and a heavy foot.
@@NZCUTR Sounds like you drive your Tesla like you stole it lol. But you definitely have a torque monster, pair that with RWD for extra fun. Also, it looks like the damage is on Nokian WR G3, on the Nokian WRG4, Nokian changed the sidewall specifically to make it stronger. On their website the market their new ARAMID (bullet proof vest material) sidewalls, and will buy you a new tire if the sidewall is damaged.
The damaged tire is a WRG3, but my other set (19s, not the Arachnids) are WRG4 and given their slippage in wet weather I think they're just all poorly suited to the Tesla-- at least a RWD one. Twitchy under power *can* be fun in the dry, but on wet pavement you just don't have that progressive sliding-- it's not predictable and quite unnerving given that our twisty roads more commonly are edged with guardrails and not shoulders. So even if Nokian would pay for it-- I don't think I want their tires anymore... assuming, of course, that the Michelin CC2s are any grippier in wet (which I have yet to purchase).
@@NZCUTR gotcha, I run CC2s in Western MD and love them. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
So far so good. After more snow I'll do an update -- but wet performance has been superb.
I run studded Nokian Hakka’s in the winter on our Mazda CX-5. Absolutely astounding winter tires! I live in northern Alberta and we get a decent amount os snow, ice and cold weather.
I had wrg4s on my Audi SQ5. EXCELLENT tire and superb traction all year round. Made driving in the snow a blast.
I use them mainly as my "winter" set in Massachusetts since it doesn't snow crazy but it's nice to know they are snow rated and stop shorter than my UHP AS I use the other 3 seasons.
Thanks for the review. Kept me from investing in these tires. What’s your plan going to be going forward?
Currently running Michelin CrossClimate2. I put them on a couple weeks ago, but weather hasn't given me a chance to make any substantive conclusions yet so I'm holding off on an update video until I have a real sense of them. So far, they're a bit less efficient (as expected, though supposedly improves after initial break in) but also quieter than the Nokians. Stability seems better as well, but I really need a high cross-wind highway drive to feel that out better.
Ran 2-sets of Nokian WRG4 on Nissan thru 4Winters in Chicago great while new .. ran year round nice ride little to soft for Summer months.. Overall great Winter Tire
My 2 Vehicle now Cadillac XT5 & Nissan Sentra I put on Michelin Cross Climate 2… Can’t say enough Very Pleased with performance of tires..! Go with Michelin & I guarantee you won’t swapping season tires anymore..
I swap tires partly because I have so many wheels laying around here! I tried to sell off the Arachnids but offers thus have been insulting and one buyer just ghosted. So I may keep them for summer only use. The CC2 are being mounted up today at Costco and I'll probably put on the car ASAP so they can get the new tire slipperiness scuffed off before first snowy commute.
So you find Michelin CC2 better than Nokians?
5:08 I noticed you don't have alot of sidewall with your setup, the sidewall of the tire is acting as a part of the suspension of the car in reality. The thing is if you hit a pothole hard enough on low profile tires you will damage the tire and possibly the wheel as well. Given the fact that EVs are heavier in general compared to fossil fuel vehicles its possible that a pothole is the culprit.
On the winter tire set up I would recommend a smaller wheel giving you a larger sidewall.
Road debris would cause a longitudal damage rather than a transverse damage due to the fact that the wheel is rotating. So I personally think that is an unlikely explanation for the damaged tire.
19" wheels are the smallest wheels that will fit on this era Model S. The Nokians are on 19" wheels. The only larger wheels I have are the 21" Arachnids that were on the car in the video -- the other two sets are the 19s.
@@NZCUTR Oh ok. Nokian produce EV specific variants of Hakkapellittas, that are constructed with the heavier weight EV vehicles in mind.
There is a chance you just had bad luck with that particular set.
These weren't Hakkas, they're WRG -- but I think in their quest to make the rubber last year round they seriously compromised the wet weather grip. Even the Hakkas (when I had them) I would run deep into spring in their last year just to get the miles out of them and they would get squirrely in wet weather but nothing like the skittering I get on the WRGs. I've had the Michelins for a while now and they're night and day better.
this has been exactly my experience with both the WRG3 and WRG4 tires in the pacific northwest, which is perhaps the quintessential "warm and rainy" place. Red light turns green, you press on gas, tires spinning on the line on a normal day, driving like a normal guy in a normal car like a Honda Civic. I was very confident on the 5~10 days we did get snow or ice here, but for the 150+ days we have rain they are bad tires and they are just "ok" when the sun is out.
Interestingly I never had this problem on the WRG2 and I remember reading a review where this guy said the WRG 2 was better than the 3 and Nokian actually sent out an engineer to meet with the guy and in the end even after all that, they had to agree to disagree. This was a Canadian newspaper many years ago.
I tried Bridgestone WEatherpeaks and they were WAY better in the rain at the cost of being a somewhat worse in snow/ice. However they have extremely high rolling resistance. I will also be trying the Crossclimate 2 (or 3) as my next set of tires...
COULD YOU PLEASE SPEAK UP FOR THOSE IN THE BACK??
Just kidding... I'm glad you're not the only one who thinks these tires are not what they're cracked up to be. I'm getting a lot of "nuh-uh" replies and implications that this was my first winter with a car I've owned for a decade on it's 3rd different brand/model of winter tires. BUT I DIGRESS...
The Cross Climate 2 have been great so far -- especially on wet roads. My confidence in the car's handling/grip have returned, but we've had so little snow/ice this season I haven't had an opportunity to see how they do in really bad weather... hence the lack of update video. With temps AGAIN returning to the 70s this week, I think I'll probably do a "tempered" update/endorsement later. FWIW, I think if you're shopping soon the CC2s are a pretty easy choice. In my area the price is same/better than the Nokians (yay Costco) and they're expected to have a longer treadlife.
I had my Gislaved dedicated snows on for 8 seasons on a Volvo RWD, until one blew. Then I switched to the Nokian WRG-2, then WRG3. Now running WRG-4 on a Volvo AWD, +20K miles but getting really noisy.
Well be careful as OutofSpec studios has been plugging this on their channels and some without disclosing the ad on their other channels.
I can assure you (and everyone else) that's there's no paid anything here other than very recent and extremely trivial ad revenue YT shares. If I'm careful, I might be able to buy a six pack of hard cider at the end of the month-- certainly nothing I'd sell my soul over or sellout my ethics! Right or wrong, I'm simply sharing my thoughts and experiences.
Teslas are known for powerful torque which could reduce traction or wear prematurely. As for lack of traction on warm wet roads, I'll have to take your word for it. I've had a few sets of Nokians ALL WEATHER and I find that very hot dry roads, the grip is not as good, but acceptable given the very good tire performance in deep snow, rain, ice, slush etc. I live in Northern Ontario, Canada where we get just about every type of weather possible. Nokian ALL WEATHER tires in Canada are sold by a retailer called Kaltire. Kaltire and Nokian offer to replace free of charge a Nokian tire which is deemed to be damaged or punctured or worn prematurely. If you haven't already done so, you may want to look into getting a replacement tire from your dealer. Nokians ALL WEATHERS for Teslas may not be appropriate but for Hondas like I drive, they are great!
I still own Nokians after 7 years and 150K Km mileage. After 6 flat tires in last 7 years on these, they are still breathing at 7/32s. Thanks to Kaltire for their lifetime repairs.
Damn. I have had over 12 sets of Nokians across all my vehicles over the last decade racking up hundreds of thousands of miles, and have never had an issue like that splitting on the tires. How old are those WRG3? I don’t think the WRG3 has been made for over 5yrs now with WRG4 being released in early 2018 which replaced WRG3. So I wonder if some hidden dry rot was taking place which caused that splitting? 🤔
All Weather tires are kinda the jack of all trades, master of none tire. I think you’ll likely find similar abysmal performance with the Michelin especially after you get some mileage on them. It’s just the way the cookie crumbles. Electric vehicles throw a curveball into the mix for sure but I really just feel it’s best to run a dedicated studless winter tire for winter and high performance all season tire for summer.
So far the Michelin's wet weather performance is nothing short of an indictment for how bad the Nokians were. I'll do another update after more snowy miles.
I made it all the way to the end and I only have one question, where did you get that t-shirt!! :)
Blipshift.com -- I have a thing for old BMWs.
Similar to what you described, did some research and settled on the WRG4' for my 2WD Model S. Not a winter tire, but close, and drive able year round.
Granted I was living in Minnesota, but was getting by with other cars and all-seasons 'okay'.
First thing I noticed was how poorly they handled ice, snow was serviceable, but on the ice I had less traction than the Continental all-seasons I put on my other 2 cars.
The warmer months they seemed to do pretty well in the wet and dry, although I did notice after a couple seasons they started showing fine cracking (not as sever as yours) as if they were drying up. This winter I had enough, absolute death trap once the ice started.
Ended up getting a set of Crossclimate 2's like you were considering, and wow what a tire! So much traction in the snow, and even in the ice they still feel safe.
Hoping they wear decently year-round, only time will tell.
When are they manufactured? You can find the year and week on the side.
The damaged ones are gone now -- but they were only a couple years old. I always check the DOT date when getting new tires to make sure they're actually new.
WRG4 are really winter tires more than all season, in Europe they're sold as winter tyres. I'd suggest getting Goodyear Gen3 all season tyres for your type of use.
Goodyears have a pretty bad reputation in my region for being unusually susceptible to pothole pinches... And I can't say I was very impressed with the treadwear of the last Goodyears I had (on a Subaru).
I just put a set of Continental PureContact LS 19". I thought of getting Cross Climate but we don't get a whole lot of sustained snow. I was not happy my Yokohama Avid Ascend GT only got 25k and 51 weeks of life. Hoping the LS tires last 30k+
I want the "added assurance" of the snow flake mountain peak rating because my car is RWD, local terrain is steep and I commute before the snow plow driver wakes up and calling off work for weather isn't option.
@@NZCUTR 2013 RWD right there with you. Just a little different climate
How many miles you had on them when you noticed the slit? Did you try taking them back?
They were several seasons old and were going to be replaced before this winter anyway, I was going to run them out over summer and just preemptively replaced instead.
Any guesstimate of miles though?
No, I don't track miles very closely except on Costco purchased tires. The Nokians are so hard to source locally that every time I've bought a set I purchased from a different place because no one can seem to keep access to them (another reason I'm avoiding).
Holy shoot man! I was going to decide between WGR4 vs Michelin CrossClimate2 for 2012 Mazda3. My car has X-Ice3 which suck in winter. But now I'm worried about durability if I get the WGR4. What do you think?
The durability of the WRG4 seems quite good overall -- the key point here is that it isn't suited for the heavy RWD Tesla. The WRG4 is just overwhelmed by the torque and lateral grip is poor on warm wet roads for a car this heavy. I forgot to say it in the video, but it also leads to a swaying sensation on the highway that I think is related to weaker sidewalls. But that's all on the Tesla -- As I mentioned in the video (I think?) we also have WRG4 on my wife's 3.6R Outback and they've worked perfectly fine on that car and I have not noticed any of those issues-- but it's a lighter AWD car with (I think) a much more robust suspension. For your purposes, I'd shop by price-- see if that makes either decision easier.
I don't think WRG4 has a durability issue, we have a set on a 2006 HR-V with 40k miles, wears evenly, never had any leaks, always stayed balanced, and has performed admirably in all conditions. I am thinking they can last another 10k miles.
Just like the creator here, I also had a set of Nokian Hakka R2 but on a FWD vehicle, snow traction is excellent for first 3 years but falls off by year 4 and 5 (25k miles when all said and done), wet traction noticeably awful even on a normal FWD car. Lateral grip quite poor and stability control kicks in way too often for what I consider, relatively low speeds. It was definitely time to retire them for good.
I ran WRG4 s on my Audi Sq5 for 3 years. Great tires.
I don't know if it is just you or the whole market in your country, what you have presented in this material is pure winter tire.
This has nothing to do with all season models.
Michelin Crossclimate is an all season.
The tires were performing exactly what they were designed for.
For mild weather what you have described you better go for Crossclimate, I mean .. you don't have 3 months of snow and ice ... why buying winter tires?!
Here in Romania, and I think the whole EU, the information that we get is that you start using winter tires if the temperature goes below 8 degrees (Celsius), above 8 the winter tire does not provide any sort of performance and prediction. Everything below 8 degrees they run fine ;)
I bet it's the same everywhere, tires are made here in EU and tested by ADAC (all of them).
Could be a different in our markets. The WRG4 are NOT marketed or sold as winter tires. They are classified as all-weather/all-season (as are the Michelin CrossClimate). As for the rest of your comment, I answered that in the video. Pittsburgh is not tropical in winter and the tires are not performing as **I** feel they should be in some very specific conditions -- but it's the rapid/sudden decline in their performance that is the issue; if it were simply progressively worse it would be safer and more predictable, but it's not. It's a sudden loss of grip, especially on turns (without throttle) at speeds/conditions that they should be able to handle, given their stated design purpose.
Hello i don't know how many KM you drove on it but they usually give 100000 KM warranty on it i think you can exchange it for free
Why not have a set of Summer tires, and use a set of all weather tires as winter tires? Problem fixed :D
That is sort of what I've done the last few years, as my 21" Arachnids have performance summer tires on them (Michelin Pilot Sport). If I don't successfully sell the Arachnids, I will replace the worn rear tires with summer tires (something less eye-wateringly expensive than the Pilots) and use those June-Sept and then run my "worn" all weathers until snow, then switch to the new ones until safe to go back to summer. It's weird fitting 3 sets of wheels/tires into a years' use but it does have the added benefit of spreading out wear and changing up the looks/handling of the car every few months.
The split tire is a WRG3 which was discontinued in 2018 so that's at least a 6 year old tire
Yes -- but those were removed from the car in Fall 2022. I no longer have the tires but if I had to guess, they may have been purchased in Fall of 2018. So the cracking would have occurred at 4 years of age... which is not an old tire when only used seasonally from 2018-2021.
Town Fair Tires and Volvo dealer say I have dry rot on the sidewalls and treads of my Nokian WR G-4's. I am going to have a Nokian dealer look at them for a claim. If Nokian makes good on warranty, I will buy the WR-G5. If not, I will forget Nokian and switch to Michelin Cross Climate 2. I did not have dry rot on the WR G-2 or G-3's. The G-4's are now impossible to balance and not have shimmy, in addition to road noise. I have less than 30K miles on them, in five years. This is on a Volvo XC70 AWD.
Hopefully, it's still an upgrade for my prius prime 2020's OEM Crapopia (ecopia) tires. I've already got a set 4 WRG3s at a huge discount and planning to swap my stock bridgestone ecopias next winter. Our winter's are pretty mild on the west coast and we get snow that last like 2-3 days tops.
I think it's a weight/sidewall issue with the Tesla. WRG4 on my wife's Outback have been fine.
We are on the second set of WRG4s on our AWD 2012 Dodge Charger with no such problems.
Uh.... congratulations? Literally a YMMV scenario, hence the reason the video is titled "why **I** stopped recommending." The bottom line is there are better choices out there for same/less money and the Michelin CrossClimate 2s are a better tire, in my experience.
@@NZCUTR I'm not arguing, just stating my experience. I have no doubt that the torque of an EV combined with the weight will eat tires if you aren't careful.
Was looking at WRG 4 for my Jeep Grand Cherokee. I live in Toronto, Canada it gets cold here in winter snow fall is not that much. We only have 3-4 major snow falls per year. Snow does not stick around for that long . Concerned using these in the rain in summer when temperatures are hot and using during spring, summer and fall rain fall.
My only alternate suggestion is Michelin Cross Climate 2 -- but I don't have any personal experience with those (yet).
That said -- remember that on my wife's Outback (lighter and AWD) we don't have these complaints-- the WRG4 works fine. It's the combination of weight, RWD, massive EV torque and (I suspect) softer sidewalls than it should have in the Tesla size.
@NZCUTR We have the WRG4 on an AWD vehicle and they are fine in warm and cold, not as good as a pure winter tire on ice though. Are the ones on your Tesla the SUV version? They have stronger sidewalls and XL rated. The regular ones may not be strong enough for the weight of the Tesla
They are XL version -- and I daresay they're notably worse on my car than the prior set of WRG3, but I can't be certain. I'm a bit dumbfounded but it's enough of an issue that I'm going to try something else for next set.
I just bought a 2014 Mazda 3 hatch. Came with stock rims and Cooper CS5 touring. I'm thinking about making a set of steelies with the WRG4 as my winter set. I live south of Cleveland. We get about 3-4 bad storms per winter and thats about it.
I ran Continental Viking Contact 7 on my Focus. I got just barely 3 winters out of them. We can get 60-70 here in the middle of winter and then a blizzard the next week. Winter tires just seem like overkill here anymore. Climate change is just about making them obsolete.
And I would expect the Nokians to work well on that car -- it's a very different weight/performance category than the Tesla. We have no complaints with the WRG4s on our Outback.
What about the new Nokian Remedy WRG5's? Should be a close competitor to the Michelin CrossClimate2's....the top rated "All Weather" tire as the WRG5 is intended to compete.
Considering them for my 2023 Model X LR (AWD) Pretty sure your issue is the only RWD Model S and not the tire...
See my update video from this morning: ruclips.net/video/bRjK05GmaE4/видео.html
Bottom line: I'm not impressed with Nokian's manufacturing quality-- all four of these have this bald-band shown in the update video-- and given that they are usually MORE expensive than the Michelin CC2 and that they harder to source in my area, I do not see any reason why I would return to Nokian when I can get a better tire, better made and at a better price. And no-- like always-- I don't earn anything for my opinions one way or the other, but right now there doesn't seem to be a better value BY FAR.
@@NZCUTR ehhh not sure your 4 tire example really warrant swearing off the brand, especially as you say they are great on your wifes car. Ever reach out to Nokian about your issue or found other reports of the same or similar "defect"?
I had the CC2's on both my 2018 Model 3 LR RWD as well as my 2019 Model 3 Performance and overall I was a fan until they got worn in where I found wet traction to be a bit lacking actually, plenty other reviews have shown the same. Granted I drive spiritedly and really pushed them regardless of the season. Treadwear and handling was very good otherwise. Point is you can always find a condition where a tire isn't ideal...many say the CC2's are noisy on Tesla's at least, I didn't think so but plenty do.
In Model X sizing (265/45/20 & 275/45/20) the CC2's are at least $20-30 MORE per tire than the new WRG5's, or $60-80 more than the WRG4's that are being phased out.
ruclips.net/video/XAGy8rk_ep4/видео.htmlfeature=shared
But it's NOT just these 4 with the twitchy wear bands-- which is a very different driving dynamic than a tire wearing out evenly-- there was an entire SET I had to prematurely dispose of because of the sidewall issue in the first video.
There's no Nokian rep in my area, all dealers/shops and they all carry lots of other options-- most of which are now cheaper for my Model S size AND available (at least to price compare) with Costco, though local shops are usually my go-to because of better service.
No. My patience with this company is GONE and the goodwill they (admittedly) "earned" by being Finnish is likewise zeroed out now-- helped in part by their slow exit from Russia after the war started in Ukraine-- after 8 tires that are sketchy. My wife's car gets like 5k miles on it a year, so those will be around longer but her alternate set is up this year and will not be Nokians.
Its rear wheel drive at 5 thousand pds. But righy cant handle all weather. But most reat wheel drive vehicles dont handle well in rain
If I was flooring it mid-corner like a Mustang owner leaving cars and coffee, I would agree--- the point is that they are suddenly losing grip even with neutral and at speeds that are reasonable otherwise. They are not progressive at all.
So switch to the nokian snowproof which are better designed for cold wet slushy conditions instead of the hardpacked snow
Does not appear to be offered in US in correct size and reviews suggest it may actually be worse: www.tire-reviews.com/Tire/Nokian/WR-Snowproof.htm
Can't you get winter tires designed for milder winters like the Nokia Snowproof, or the Continental TS 870?
I could, but that puts me back in the connundrum starting a winter 2-3 years later trying to decide if I get new winter tires or try and eek one more year on the ones I've already bought. The attraction of all-weather tires is that they can be run as dedicated winters for a few years and then "retire" them to year round until the serviceable tread is gone.
@@NZCUTR Most Nokians I have seen, comes with wear indicators moulded into the tread pattern. Which removes the guess work completely when it comes to the wear of the tire.
Correct -- but better data doesn't change the decision process. You're still going to -- at least some of the time -- replace snow tires that have good tread but not good enough to make it through another winter.
You could retire your 3mm winter set to the shoulder months. Not ideal because you'd have to dismount/remount and store a 3rd set but you would get the best summer tires and the best winter tires, and still run your winter tires to the wear bars. Personally I'd run Michelin PS4S and then Alpin 5.
SNOW tires are sketchy in warm weather ("shoulder months") and the Nokians I've had -- Hakkas and WRG4-- are exceptionally bad in rain/wet roads, which are common in my area's transitional seasons. I have three sets of wheels, but the 21" wheels are summer only tires (at the moment). I do switch wheels several times a year to even out wear and preserve the newest set of all-weather tires to use as winters as long as possible.
This logic makes no sense to me. An All Weather tire is not a winter tire. But then you chose a rear wheel drive Tesla. Yeah well you got a torquey car and you are a spirited driver. Your rear tires are going to wear out very fast. Its not going to matter what tires you use because fun=worn tires.
WRG4 tires are good tires for areas that have occasional snow. For instance like Portland and Seattle. I still use dedicated winter tires (winter tires do not equal snow tires - There is a distinct difference) in our Portland Oregon winters just in case. I drive people around that need to get where they are going all winter. This last winter it was a two day ice storm. Blizzak tires for the win. They take the fun right out of packed snow but ice can still be fun and they still functioned better than average. Id not even consider this job in any rear wheel drive Tesla. Id get better winter performance from blizzaks on a Ford pinto station wagon from the 1970's.
I do want to try the cross climate tires and the WRG5 tires though.
Seems like no one understands-- or takes the time to even fact check-- that Nokian INDEED markets the WRG tire line as WINTER TIRES. They are not SNOW tires, but they are all weather and sold as a year round solution. From their website: "Forget the Forecast and enjoy natural versatility with our latest all-weather, four-season driving solution."
My criticism is (TLDW) that they are are relatively poor at EVERYTHING and also exhibit frightening characteristics in certain types of weather. The tires are not worn when they do this, nor is the car being driven aggressively under those conditions-- WHICH IS WHY THIS IS A TIRE PROBLEM. The fact that OTHER tires DO NOT have either of these issues under that same conditions only proves that it is a NOKIAN problem.
I never claimed they were better than dedicated snow tires, but rather for moderate winter use they were (hypothetically) more economical because they could also be used in the warmer months to maximize their treadlife--- if it weren't for how dangerous they were in wet conditions.
Furthermore, this is possibly/partly do to poor manufacturing as discussed in this more recent video:
ruclips.net/video/bRjK05GmaE4/видео.html
That's as logically as I can lay it out -- but the bottom line is this: Buy something else. Michelin CC2 has (thus far) proven to me that it is better in every condition for a price that is lower in my area than the Nokian and it is more widely available.
No. WRG4 are not summer tires and were never claimed to be.
But that doesn't explain why they're so piss poor in cold spring/autumn rainy days now DOES IT? Sheesh.
Hakka 10 is worlds best winter tire, specially on ice
That's a full on snow tire -- not an all-weather/season tire.
@@NZCUTR all season is crap tires, always have good summer tires and best winter tires.
You've managed to completely miss the point of this entire discussion regarding snow/all season/all weather tires.
get the michelin cross climate 2s instead. nokian tires used to be made in russian factories before the war broke out.
Could be vandalism/slash?
I don't think so... the marks go around into the tread block. Must have been road debris that wasn't seen/heard.
I will never buy this brand again. Winter tyres burst at around 140 km/h on the German motorway. Super good motorway conditions between Ingolstadt and Munich. No snow. Dry road surface. Tyres were still very good. Unfortunately manufactured in Russia. How does something like this get onto our German market? A large crack in the tyre. For me, that's just rubbish!