Regarding the logistics of transformation, there was a spell in the 8th edition lore of beasts that allowed a character to change into a random monster, one of them being a dragon and people just placed more or less where the infantry model stood. You could write something like "The front of the new base has to overlap the front of the previous base" or the transformation could occur in the remaining moves phase so you could not transform to see more before charging.
If I remember correctly Celestial Generals are a type of Dragon Blooded. And Dragon Blooded Shugengan are casters (that are also good in melee). So I think the best analogy is Chaos Lord and Sorceror Lord. Generals aren't necessarily as powerful as Chaos Lords ofc, but they should be pretty damn strong. Shugengan would probably be better in combat than Sorceror Lords and capable of being built towards it, but probably less tanky.
It was also confirmed that in the 8th edition Cathay book that was made by GW for CA and TWWH3, the Monkey King is a named character with stats. And he took over Cathay pretty much I think during the period OW is set. So Monkey King is probably coming eventually, but as you said probably not for a while.
Totally- if anyone is interested in learning more about Cathay Loremaster of Sotek has a 1hr 40 min interview with Andy Hall, who has the aforementioned 8th ed rulebook in front of him to answer lore questions.
I wonder if their army archetype fills in the gap on the mobility - toughness spectrum for shooting armies. Dwarfs - Empire - Cathay - Wood Elves. Give the balloons some kind of evasion ability (not outright immune, but hard to catch); the artillery can relocate; but they do still have a battle line.
Here's my prediction for Cathay's "starter box". I'm assuming it's going to look a lot like the Dwarfs, since they play kinda similarly in TWWH3: -Jade Swordsman/Halbers (16 of each or 32 of one) -Jade crossbows/IronHailGunners (16 of each or 32 of one) -Sky Junk/Sky lantern (1 of each or 2 of one)
There's no way they'll cram all three into one box - between the different weapon options, armouredness and overall feel I think you're looking at 3 boxes. Peasants (Spear or Bow), Jade Warrior (Sword, Spear or Crossbow) and Celestial Dragon Guard (Halberd or Crossbow)
The Great Longma Riders are literally The Dragonblooded Nobility. they're super human by default. You are looking at a Unit that should have an edge over Pegasus knights, who just have human riders who are not Grail Knights. The Dragon Rulers of Cathay have bred with the Humans (They can shape shift into humans form) to create an upper tier of Empowered Humans to help rule over the normal people in cathay. the Celestial Dragon Guard are a mix of Exceptional Humans and dragon blooded Nobility, the Great Longma Riders are only Dragon Blooded nobility.
Kind of wish Bearfoot was a bit more experienced with his Cathay knowledge, because he missed a few points and didnt feel super definitive, but I still think you both did good at trying to transfer Cathay into the tabletop! It is worth mentioning that the Dragon-Blooded are not melee power houses. They're okay in melee, but their main role are casters. They have access to Lore of Yin and Yang (sort of like High Magic), which no other Cathay unit has outside of the dragon characters.
I think I’ve heard you bring up the “you’re never more than 5 feet from a rat” thing before. And that’s wrong- you’re thinking about spiders. You’re never more than a few feet from some spider, *especially at night.* That said, proxy Cathay with skaven might be fun
Come on lads we all know it's going to be Vampire Counts !!!!! ... .. ... .. after that comment jumps into the trenches, puts on his tin helmet and starts to hunker down.
Now I don't think for a second this came from any sort of a bad place, we saw how you got there and were clearly toying with what felt like maybe a fun idea. And Skaven are great however they're used. However, if I had a successful RUclips channel on The Old World then I don't think the first thing I would do with Warhammer's first non-European human faction for many years is proxy rats in for them. Just perhaps not the best look...
Hi Clyde, To my knowledge there is no link between China and stereotypes/other racist links to rats so I don't see how this could be construed in any way as racist.
@@CloseOrder I didn't think (and I think made clear that I didn't) that you were being racist. I also think down the line that any new faction should be able to be mucked about with as much as any other. I do think that letting them get established in their proper form first would probably be for the best though. As for rats it's fair to say they're not top of most people's list of animals they want to be likened to (and it doesn't take much thought to come up with some unpleasant connotations that would fit some views) so on balance it would feel better to see them how they're supposed to be to start with.
Regarding the logistics of transformation, there was a spell in the 8th edition lore of beasts that allowed a character to change into a random monster, one of them being a dragon and people just placed more or less where the infantry model stood. You could write something like "The front of the new base has to overlap the front of the previous base" or the transformation could occur in the remaining moves phase so you could not transform to see more before charging.
If I remember correctly Celestial Generals are a type of Dragon Blooded. And Dragon Blooded Shugengan are casters (that are also good in melee). So I think the best analogy is Chaos Lord and Sorceror Lord. Generals aren't necessarily as powerful as Chaos Lords ofc, but they should be pretty damn strong. Shugengan would probably be better in combat than Sorceror Lords and capable of being built towards it, but probably less tanky.
It was also confirmed that in the 8th edition Cathay book that was made by GW for CA and TWWH3, the Monkey King is a named character with stats. And he took over Cathay pretty much I think during the period OW is set. So Monkey King is probably coming eventually, but as you said probably not for a while.
Totally- if anyone is interested in learning more about Cathay Loremaster of Sotek has a 1hr 40 min interview with Andy Hall, who has the aforementioned 8th ed rulebook in front of him to answer lore questions.
I'll check that out!
I wonder if their army archetype fills in the gap on the mobility - toughness spectrum for shooting armies. Dwarfs - Empire - Cathay - Wood Elves. Give the balloons some kind of evasion ability (not outright immune, but hard to catch); the artillery can relocate; but they do still have a battle line.
You're talking my language 👀
Max has some of the best batreps for the Old world too!
I do enjoy them! Always a treat to have him on
Glad to hear you enjoy them!
Here's my prediction for Cathay's "starter box". I'm assuming it's going to look a lot like the Dwarfs, since they play kinda similarly in TWWH3:
-Jade Swordsman/Halbers (16 of each or 32 of one)
-Jade crossbows/IronHailGunners (16 of each or 32 of one)
-Sky Junk/Sky lantern (1 of each or 2 of one)
I dunno if they will do the peasant jade warrior same box. Outside of being humans they're way too different
There's no way they'll cram all three into one box - between the different weapon options, armouredness and overall feel I think you're looking at 3 boxes.
Peasants (Spear or Bow), Jade Warrior (Sword, Spear or Crossbow) and Celestial Dragon Guard (Halberd or Crossbow)
Most recent new faction for Fantasy was Ogres in 6th
Daemons of chaos dropped in 7th
Ahh i forgot Ogres werent just there
Daemons I roll into Chaos, theyll always be 'Hordes of Chaos' in my mind
The Great Longma Riders are literally The Dragonblooded Nobility. they're super human by default. You are looking at a Unit that should have an edge over Pegasus knights, who just have human riders who are not Grail Knights.
The Dragon Rulers of Cathay have bred with the Humans (They can shape shift into humans form) to create an upper tier of Empowered Humans to help rule over the normal people in cathay. the Celestial Dragon Guard are a mix of Exceptional Humans and dragon blooded Nobility, the Great Longma Riders are only Dragon Blooded nobility.
Kind of wish Bearfoot was a bit more experienced with his Cathay knowledge, because he missed a few points and didnt feel super definitive, but I still think you both did good at trying to transfer Cathay into the tabletop!
It is worth mentioning that the Dragon-Blooded are not melee power houses. They're okay in melee, but their main role are casters. They have access to Lore of Yin and Yang (sort of like High Magic), which no other Cathay unit has outside of the dragon characters.
well the celestial Generals are also Dragon Blooded Nobility, they just have no aptitude for magic, but they have super human strength.
I think I’ve heard you bring up the “you’re never more than 5 feet from a rat” thing before. And that’s wrong- you’re thinking about spiders. You’re never more than a few feet from some spider, *especially at night.*
That said, proxy Cathay with skaven might be fun
There's a three min video that is from the design heads from gw. Talking about it
For the question of what was the last brand new faction. I believe it was the ogre kingdoms back in about 2005ish
Oh yeah! I remember that coming out
But I'm so excited for Cathay. They're going to be my main core faction.
I'm not sure what happened to your audio in this one, but it sounds like it was recorded on a cellphone.
Come on lads we all know it's going to be Vampire Counts !!!!!
...
..
...
..
after that comment jumps into the trenches, puts on his tin helmet and starts to hunker down.
Take Cover!!!!
Latest completely new faction was ogres
Good title (haven't watched it yet though).
And I did enjoy it too!
Jet and Jade Lions can be a combo kit. Celestial Lions cannot. they look way too different and the celestial Lions are character mounts.
wow an 1 hour + video
Now I don't think for a second this came from any sort of a bad place, we saw how you got there and were clearly toying with what felt like maybe a fun idea. And Skaven are great however they're used. However, if I had a successful RUclips channel on The Old World then I don't think the first thing I would do with Warhammer's first non-European human faction for many years is proxy rats in for them. Just perhaps not the best look...
I dont think 99% of the population would do that mental leap.
I mean, I could be wrong but for me thats reeeealy a stretch
Hi Clyde,
To my knowledge there is no link between China and stereotypes/other racist links to rats so I don't see how this could be construed in any way as racist.
@@CloseOrder I didn't think (and I think made clear that I didn't) that you were being racist. I also think down the line that any new faction should be able to be mucked about with as much as any other. I do think that letting them get established in their proper form first would probably be for the best though. As for rats it's fair to say they're not top of most people's list of animals they want to be likened to (and it doesn't take much thought to come up with some unpleasant connotations that would fit some views) so on balance it would feel better to see them how they're supposed to be to start with.
40K player revealed as he shows his complete lack of lore knowledge for the whole history of Warhammer Fantasy
but he's more tactically minded and you need that for Warhammer The Old World, which is great.
WHERE ARE THE DREADNOUGHTS STEVE?