The psychology of why so many weird things is fascinating to me. Critical thinking should be taught in school throughout primary , secondary and third level education.
Will likely never happen in bible belts throughout America. The indoctrination of Christianity is too embedded into those areas. You'e be shunned, labeled a heathen and run out of town for merely suggesting it. You know, those "loving", "caring" Christians, they are such sweethearts!!!
My thoughts, for belief based worldviews, 1. Belief is what we do when there is no evidence. We are survival mechanisms, but must understand our environment nonetheless in order to survive, so humans invent lacking evidences and actual understandings and the time to study nature....invent stories and ideas that explain what we see to fulfill a sense of our surroundings. 2. We are social animals, sociable being, every interaction external to ourself, whether human or make believe, therefore to entwine stories, with an intender (the only way over millenia to explain life and complexity, without the notion of evolving adaptation) a relationship can be had with this complexity-designing-intender, explains our suroundings while fulfilling the external social side of our requirements as a product of evolution.
Francesca is so adorable and smart. Lovely person. Mind you Richard Dawkins is a brilliant and DOES understand religion. The moderator is a bit of a pill and a new age type of fuzzy definition theist. It’s a Deepak Chopra hogwash. How does believing in Santa Claus or thinking that Elvis is still alive make life better.
Baa humbug!...for some beliefs in things like santa or Elvis brings and maintains elements of magic,hope and/or wonder to a person's life and also distracts from the harsher realities of the world....a world whereby war is common place and murder happens daily beliefs balances a life and makes the evil in life more bareable imo.
I am confused about the term "believe in", as in what it means. It seems to go further than "I believe such and such a claim", but what it means I just don't know.
@@urbandiscount Concept of what they are actually like, or should be like? To me, must is like when parents say you must brush your teeth after every meal. Like a command I suppose you could say.
@@neddyladdy That's not how the mitzvot work. In judaism they are the spiritual practice, and the intention is to bring holiness into the world by reinforcing the relationship with the divine. i.e. I can be an atheist and still commit to the mitzvot, no problem. Often, non-jews don't understand this. The same misconceptions exit about so called hinduism
Having an incorrect scare paper in The Lancet didn't help with the pro vaccine agenda. (I assume this is the anti-vax reference in this 2016 debate rather than the COVID-19 anti-vaxxers).
I can't help feeling the question "why we believe?" was lost in this discussion. I'm still no closer to understanding why it is someone may believe one thing over another, and the exact process is behind it. Religion is merely a product of the mental process (if that is what you'd call it) that is belief, and i felt too much time was spent covering the religious aspects over the process of belief itself... Still an interesting watch regardless.
Cultural upbringing in the early years, psychology, and the integration and embedding of doctrine principle in society...interning perspectives from evolution research as well. You'll only find theories, research data, and more questions.. There are no absolutes to be found in those things.. Perhaps people cling tightly to religion because it delivers an absolute...and immortality. At our core. We want to live as long as possible. Our species..our genes.. this can translate in practice a multitude of different ways.
"religion" is something like "music", likewise an innate human characteristic. Even elephants have burial rituals, raven come back for their dead, etc.
agree with those who feel it didnt go much into the need for belief, I think more on distinguishing teleological from mechanistic thinking would have been helpful, the need to find meaning in suffering may need explication but would be some kind of a start...too much unselfcritical banter especially from the men panelists who seemed to endorse the dawkins attitude that religion just a mistake due to ignorance of the capital T Truth served up by modern science
Need Jordan to explain. Hive mind needs an operating system to perceive reality and cooperate. Will incorporate as much evidence based knowledge as there is available, but takes many years to integrate. Integration took centuries, but much faster now. Don’t think Dawkins understands religion because he does not think it is necessary and therefore does not understand understand its function.
The moderator needs to stop the clickety-clack with that pen; if she ever moderates again someone needs to take the pen out of her hand or give her one that doesn't click and she may have a clunky bracelet on with it I can't tell but the noise the beginning is horrendous but it just tunes me in to all the lesser, but remaining clickety-clack going on with her moving her arm and her pen around. Also I had the "pleasure" of seeing Sri Chinmoye in Atlanta and the guy was some old geezer who did nothing but play the same song called Oneness Happiness Song over and over and over and over again on different instruments if you would call them that. We were seated upfront; it was billed as something not what it was and so the people that I was with we thought we couldn't leave without the people behind us, who were obviously devotees, taking offense so we sat through the whole thing -it was horrible the guy was awful. I don't see how anybody could've been conned by him, but obviously she was.
Yes, there was another forum that this happened with the moderator’s earrings. You’d think she would have given them a heads-up about earrings. It’s quite distracting.
Superstition really confuses me, number 13 or salt over the should is totally illogical & makes no sense to me. Also there is no such thing as luck that is just illogical wishful thinking.
+Oisin Murphy the idea of bad luck in a way is a self fulfilling prophecy. When you think Friday the 13th will bring bad luck people tend to be more nervous and make more mistakes, thus increasing the chance of an accident.
@@mensmans9241 the unlucky 13, gets its meaning/origins from, yes you guessed it, good old religion, christanity to be precise. It comes from the idea of the 13 apostle who was left out by the many men who wrote the stories for the bible
Stating a fact. Name any human society that doesn't or didn't have a creation story. Or one that doesn't entertain itself with stories. As far as we know, no other species does this.
A panel of post christian non-believers who think, as do the commenters below, that every religion must be like Christianity and be about "belief". However, the majority of the world's religion aren't about belief at all, but about praxis. That is already true for judaism, which is where the fundamental difference is. What a missed opportunity this panel is. That could have been fixed. Irrational beliefs are not a hallmark of religion, but of human life. Look at Covid and many governments' response to it and add to that the anti-vaxxers.
8 лет назад
Thought word action ...you have a thought, you put a word on that thought, move into the thought word and gain wisdom, and you have another thought. You get 60,000 a day thoughts however 59,500 are same as yesterday. Repetition creates rigid thinking . Stuck on stupid. Religion like Moses, calling out to the chosen ones. Please.
Its a single sided and narrow discussion where beliefs are seen only in terms of cults or religion. There was little diversity of opinion amongst the panellist. I had expected much more broader and open discussion about all aspects of beliefs that are entrenched in us as individuals and society. It's not worth the time in my opinion.
She claimed that ancient Israel had no moral claims because of her minimalist presuppositions that she really cannot prove. She's just wrong, Israel had the Torah.
Torah is not about "morals" but about action. Belief is a christian thing. One can be a jewish atheist and be fully observant too. BECAUSE unlike christianity, the majority of religions are about praxis.
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I saw Stavrakopoulou .. I stayed
Francesca is 🔥
The psychology of why so many weird things is fascinating to me.
Critical thinking should be taught in school throughout primary , secondary and third level education.
Will likely never happen in bible belts throughout America. The indoctrination of Christianity is too embedded into those areas. You'e be shunned, labeled a heathen and run out of town for merely suggesting it. You know, those "loving", "caring" Christians, they are such sweethearts!!!
I enjoyed listening to this discussion, food for thought; thank you for assembling interesting people...
We need about a billion more Francescas and Dawkins...
GREAT DISCUSSION...Well Done!
Has anybody noticed every time Christians say their kingdom is coming nothing happens
I liked Richard straight to point.
My thoughts, for belief based worldviews, 1. Belief is what we do when there is no evidence. We are survival mechanisms, but must understand our environment nonetheless in order to survive, so humans invent lacking evidences and actual understandings and the time to study nature....invent stories and ideas that explain what we see to fulfill a sense of our surroundings. 2. We are social animals, sociable being, every interaction external to ourself, whether human or make believe, therefore to entwine stories, with an intender (the only way over millenia to explain life and complexity, without the notion of evolving adaptation) a relationship can be had with this complexity-designing-intender, explains our suroundings while fulfilling the external social side of our requirements as a product of evolution.
Every worldview is belief based
@@urbandiscount
"We are all individuals"
"We are all individuals"
"I'm not."
@@urbandiscount
Isn't that tautological?
Good choice or words. Thanks.
Refreshing
Wiseman is a wise man
Pascal Boyer’s book.... “Religion Explained” is essential.
I thought the same thing myself. He really should be on the panel. They may not have heard of him.
Richard Dawkins work is unsurpassed thanks to him critical thinking is on the increase.
Francesca is so adorable and smart. Lovely person. Mind you Richard Dawkins is a brilliant and DOES understand religion. The moderator is a bit of a pill and a new age type of fuzzy definition theist. It’s a Deepak Chopra hogwash. How does believing in Santa Claus or thinking that Elvis is still alive make life better.
Baa humbug!...for some beliefs in things like santa or Elvis brings and maintains elements of magic,hope and/or wonder to a person's life and also distracts from the harsher realities of the world....a world whereby war is common place and murder happens daily beliefs balances a life and makes the evil in life more bareable imo.
I would posit that Dawkins doesn't understand one bit about religion.
I am confused about the term "believe in", as in what it means. It seems to go further than "I believe such and such a claim", but what it means I just don't know.
Then consider disbelief. I don`t believe anything can come from nothing. Which leads me to think that there must be something.
@@stevedl3150 I don't follow, sorry.
It's a Christian concept of what all religions must be like. The panel is post-Christian. This was a Christian culture thing.
@@urbandiscount Concept of what they are actually like, or should be like? To me, must is like when parents say you must brush your teeth after every meal. Like a command I suppose you could say.
@@neddyladdy That's not how the mitzvot work. In judaism they are the spiritual practice, and the intention is to bring holiness into the world by reinforcing the relationship with the divine. i.e. I can be an atheist and still commit to the mitzvot, no problem. Often, non-jews don't understand this. The same misconceptions exit about so called hinduism
Having an incorrect scare paper in The Lancet didn't help with the pro vaccine agenda. (I assume this is the anti-vax reference in this 2016 debate rather than the COVID-19 anti-vaxxers).
I can't help feeling the question "why we believe?" was lost in this discussion. I'm still no closer to understanding why it is someone may believe one thing over another, and the exact process is behind it. Religion is merely a product of the mental process (if that is what you'd call it) that is belief, and i felt too much time was spent covering the religious aspects over the process of belief itself... Still an interesting watch regardless.
Cultural upbringing in the early years, psychology, and the integration and embedding of doctrine principle in society...interning perspectives from evolution research as well.
You'll only find theories, research data, and more questions..
There are no absolutes to be found in those things..
Perhaps people cling tightly to religion because it delivers an absolute...and immortality. At our core. We want to live as long as possible. Our species..our genes.. this can translate in practice a multitude of different ways.
"religion" is something like "music", likewise an innate human characteristic. Even elephants have burial rituals, raven come back for their dead, etc.
People who watch and enjoy: DON'T FORGET TO SUB AND THUMBS UP!
+The History Revolution (Rich F-G) and share... never forget share :)
+The History Revolution (Rich F-G) Sure!
agree with those who feel it didnt go much into the need for belief, I think more on distinguishing teleological from mechanistic thinking would have been helpful, the need to find meaning in suffering may need explication but would be some kind of a start...too much unselfcritical banter especially from the men panelists who seemed to endorse the dawkins attitude that religion just a mistake due to ignorance of the capital T Truth served up by modern science
Need Jordan to explain. Hive mind needs an operating system to perceive reality and cooperate. Will incorporate as much evidence based knowledge as there is available, but takes many years to integrate. Integration took centuries, but much faster now. Don’t think Dawkins understands religion because he does not think it is necessary and therefore does not understand understand its function.
The moderator needs to stop the clickety-clack with that pen; if she ever moderates again someone needs to take the pen out of her hand or give her one that doesn't click and she may have a clunky bracelet on with it I can't tell but the noise the beginning is horrendous but it just tunes me in to all the lesser, but remaining clickety-clack going on with her moving her arm and her pen around.
Also I had the "pleasure" of seeing Sri Chinmoye in Atlanta and the guy was some old geezer who did nothing but play the same song called Oneness Happiness Song over and over and over and over again on different instruments if you would call them that. We were seated upfront; it was billed as something not what it was and so the people that I was with we thought we couldn't leave without the people behind us, who were obviously devotees, taking offense so we sat through the whole thing -it was horrible the guy was awful. I don't see how anybody could've been conned by him, but obviously she was.
It’s not the moderator, it’s Francesca’s hoop earring hitting the microphone every time she moves her head,
Yes, there was another forum that this happened with the moderator’s earrings. You’d think she would have given them a heads-up about earrings. It’s quite distracting.
Superstition really confuses me, number 13 or salt over the should is totally illogical & makes no sense to me. Also there is no such thing as luck that is just illogical wishful thinking.
+Oisin Murphy the idea of bad luck in a way is a self fulfilling prophecy. When you think Friday the 13th will bring bad luck people tend to be more nervous and make more mistakes, thus increasing the chance of an accident.
@@mensmans9241 the unlucky 13, gets its meaning/origins from, yes you guessed it, good old religion, christanity to be precise. It comes from the idea of the 13 apostle who was left out by the many men who wrote the stories for the bible
Humans need stories to be human.
are you justifying gullibility?
Stating a fact. Name any human society that doesn't or didn't have a creation story. Or one that doesn't entertain itself with stories. As far as we know, no other species does this.
@@joeturner1597 Real Buddhists
A panel of post christian non-believers who think, as do the commenters below, that every religion must be like Christianity and be about "belief". However, the majority of the world's religion aren't about belief at all, but about praxis. That is already true for judaism, which is where the fundamental difference is. What a missed opportunity this panel is. That could have been fixed. Irrational beliefs are not a hallmark of religion, but of human life. Look at Covid and many governments' response to it and add to that the anti-vaxxers.
Thought word action ...you have a thought, you put a word on that thought, move into the thought word and gain wisdom,
and you have another thought. You get 60,000 a day thoughts however 59,500 are same as yesterday. Repetition creates rigid thinking . Stuck on stupid. Religion like Moses, calling out to the chosen ones. Please.
Good life with faith here = Eternal good life after death
Its a single sided and narrow discussion where beliefs are seen only in terms of cults or religion. There was little diversity of opinion amongst the panellist. I had expected much more broader and open discussion about all aspects of beliefs that are entrenched in us as individuals and society. It's not worth the time in my opinion.
More the fool to you for listening to the discussion then
@@frankanderson5012 Why? "Know what you need to say to an apostate"
I'm like Satan, I don't believe
She claimed that ancient Israel had no moral claims because of her minimalist presuppositions that she really cannot prove. She's just wrong, Israel had the Torah.
She was talking about before the Torah.
They all have their own books, their own mythologies. Having a book isn't a morality claim.
Torah is not about "morals" but about action. Belief is a christian thing. One can be a jewish atheist and be fully observant too. BECAUSE unlike christianity, the majority of religions are about praxis.
@@woodygilson3465 No it's a technology claim.
@@urbandiscount You speaking for the OP? Because that's not what the OP said.
You were converted
government forces compliance to religion
Me and Satan don't belive in God....We know he exist.