this is an amazing video, i love it when people appreciate ballplayers from this era in the same way as any other because there is so much incredible talent that people dont mention from back then from people like Cummings, Keefe, and Jim Creighton
@@declanhearne5784 I completely agree. It's a shame that Baseball Reference only goes back to 1871. I wish we had a better record of stats from the 1850s and 1860s.
@tgags123HD That's probably because there was no real standard for Stat tracking before then. Plus (correct me if I'm wrong) that's the year Major League Baseball began so everything before that wouldn't be relevant to comparing players to before 1871.
The idea that players could go months without being paid in the first place is wild by modern standards. Not even the most rinky-dink of Indy ball leagues would let a team miss a single paycheck without massive repercussions. If this same scandal happened a century later I am not convinced these four get suspended at all, let alone face total expulsion, simply because the underlying cause is SO unacceptable by modern standards.
@@ThatOneGuy8305 Definitely wild by modern standards, but considering this Civil War had just ended 12 years prior, not paying people for their work wasn't exactly a foreign concept at the time.
I follow Irish soccer and this year one of the teams didn’t pay their players in the last few weeks of the season and it caused chaos in the entire league. I think the club as it existed was dissolved, relegated, and may or may not be reestablished by the fans. And this was the worst team in the league by a pretty wide margin with not a huge amount of top tier talent. I can’t imagine if a top team with some of the best players in the league stopped paying them
I don't know why I, a Dutch guy who cares little about baseball got this video in my feed. but it was a great and fascinating watch, even if all the stats terms mean absolutely nothing to me. Let's stick it to the man, and get Jim inducted.
I am an American guy who got a video in my feed explaining the New Amsterdam Suriname swap. Now I’m commenting on a Dutch guys comments. 6 degrees brother.
The reason why he was able to pitch so often is that in the 1870s only underhanded pitching was allowed. Underhand itching is much easier on the shoulder and underhanded pitching could pitch all day underhanded. If you don't believe me, take a look at fast pitch softball players who can pitch doubleheaders easily if needed. No days of rest are needed for underhand pitching as it is a much more natural motion.
@@MarlinWilliams-ts5ul Originally, it was llke beer league softball without the high arc, as the point of the game was to get the batter to hit the ball and then rely on fielders to make the outs. Once people figures out that you could do things to make batters miss, then it became more like what you see in college fast pitch softball (although windmilling was not allowed) or the submariner pitchers you mentioned. Although, really by the time overhand was legalized, most pitchers were pitching more sidearm and pushing the limits of the rules which required the ball to be released below the waist. That's probably why they changed the rules. They were being mostly ignored, anyways.
Good video! 1800s baseball was a wild place, full of stories and legends, many of which are lost to time. If you want some video suggestions, some ideas I could suggest from 1800s baseball specifically are- -The 1884 Union Association -The 1890 Player's League -The greatest power hitter in the history of the American Association (Harry Stovey) -The ONLY left-handed catcher in MLB history to have a lengthy career (Jack Clements) -Ed Williamson and the 1884 White Stockings home ballpark I could go on with stories about 1800s baseball worth telling, but I'll leave it here for now. Anyway, once again, good video! Subbed.
These 1800s super pitchers have some of the most insane careers. Like the fact 600 innings pitched would often place you 2nd in the league. Look at any of these team aces, and you'll see a graveyard of players. Turns out, putting nearly 1100 innings in two years leads to permanent damage in your arm, and you retire at 29.
That was awesome, love the team history part! Weird that Louisville's home field yielded so many runs, but yet he only allowed 7 home runs in over 600 innings. With that and all those unearned runs I bet it was a field full of boulders and pot holes. Thanks for the story of Jim Devlin-- He had a sick mustache would be pretty cool on a HOF plaque!
Excellent episode 👏 , thanks for the deep dive into the world of baseball in the 1870's. Enjoyed and subscribed to your channel , thanks for sharing with us.
My personal favorite player with a 2 year prime is Yankees infielder Snuffy Stirnweiss. He was a serviceable utility player for a good amount of time, but his 2 notable seasons are insane. During WWII when many star players left for deployment, Snuffy Stirnweiss got his first chances in the bigs. 8.6 WAR in 1944, which led the AL. 8.8 WAR in 1945, which led all of badeball. His career 103 OPS+ is carried by those two seasons, where his OPS+ was 139 and 145. The latter would be the year where he was the best hitter on the planet.* * - That was not a soldier in WWII. His OPS+ for the rest of his career was just 83 and the 8.0 WAR he accrued after 1945 was worse than both of his first 2 seasons as a starter.
You might enjoy the Hall of Merit at Baseball Think Factory. It's definitely not for everyone but your love of spreadsheets and 1800's baseball are the prerequisites. Congrats!
@@EricKoonitsky-s1d Definitely right up my alley! Looks like the original site has been down for a few months, but someone has a backup on a Wix site. Not all of the links work, though, and it's clunky to naviagte on mobile. I'll have to explore it a bit more when I get home. Thanks for the recommendation!
Have you ever looked at a player named Billy Rhines. He led the league in era two years in the 1880-1890. Outstanding numbers. He also threw underhand.
Just a few days ago, I featured him on my "R.B.I. Baseball 1876 - The Heritage Collection" release, where I publish an R.B.I. Baseball NES video game for all seasons in existence.
Chicago (AL) was known as the Black Sox because Comiskey was too cheap to clean the uniforms. The park he built on 35th Street was on the site of an old garbage dump ; a plate once surfaced years later. The gamblers who talked to the Eight Men Out told them that a World's Series had been thrown before; some think it was the 1918 Series with the Red Sox over the Cubs at Fenway and Comiskey Parks.
The idea I never heard of Jim Devlin is Ken Burns erasure and I will not stand for it 😂😂 Seriously, one of the best moments in that whole thing was in the first episode where his letter to Harry Wright was so beautifully recited. I think it was actor David Caruso who did that, I'm not too sure.
Very good video. Was a little surprised there was no mention of Ken Burns' Baseball documentary which included Devlin and the scandal in its first episode (albeit not focusing on his performance, just saying he was a big star for the Grays). All the comments criticizing the heavy use of advanced stats are totally off-base, as are the comments just saying who cares about the pre-modern era.
@@1600film I'm actually not aware of that documentary, I'll have to check it out! I know who Ken Burns is of course, but I know him more for his editing / stylistic techniques than his actual work.
I enjoy this and appreciate your learnedness in baseball. That said, you maybe too learned, having found a very fine orange in an apple vs. orange contest, somewhat like a learned monk counting angels on the head of a pin. This man was undoubtedly talented, but in a completely different game and there are too many things that we just cannot know. But the description is very well done and educational, so thank you!
@@toddbonzalez947 I'll have to see if I can find a way to make an abbreviated version of it. If I do it the way that I originally intended it would be a 15+ hour long video lol.
Actually, 2 NL teams are named after colors. The Cardinals were rebranded that because the Perfectos owner overheard a teen girl gushing over the "lovely shade of Cardinal" the team used. Great video, though. I wonder how Josh Gibson's best years look with WAR.
@@K.Dwizzle You mean 1884, right? Definitely a solid choice. I find Devlin's season to be more interesting because he was also his team's best hitter, but Radbourn's 1884 has the edge in pitching for sure. Don't think you could go wrong either way.
@@elizidele2916 His 1884 numbers are crazy. The video would probably have to focus on the the Union Association though; I'm sure it's not a coincidence that his outlier season came when he played in the one and only season of the Union Association's existence. Orator Shafer had a similar outlier season playing in the UA that year. Every team played a different number of games, and I believe the first-place team went 94-19 or something like that lol. Definitely not the most competitive or balanced league.
@@tgags123HD I don’t know too much about leagues other than the ones we have today but I lot of players had outlier 1884 seasons but I would say Dunlaps or Guy Hecker (also in 1884) are the biggest ones
@@tgags123HD not only was the UA unbalanced and non-competitive, but the next year, the team that won the UA pennant (the St Louis Maroons) was added to the NL, and they promptly finished tied for last in terms of games behind 1st, and alone in last in terms of winning percentage.
@@tgags123HD Joe Quinn was a member of both this team, and the Manager of the 1899 Cleveland Spiders (20-134). The only player on both the best and worst teams to play over 100 games in a Season in ML History.
@@mikeycham3643 SHIT you're right. Never heard of the color "cardinal" before, but the internet confirms that it does indeed exist. There goes my statistical analysis :(
@@mikeycham3643 There's an article by Anne Rogers on the MLB website that does indeed state that the Cardinals got their name from the red trim on their uniforms. I never knew that; I always just assumed they were named after the bird. And thank you for the kind words!
@tgags123HD Yeah, I think the story, possibly apocryphal, goes that the owner's wife commented the uniforms were, "a lovely shade of cardinal, " or something along those lines.
Old Ty probably threw a game or two himself, even the guy revising his supposed racism and black character agrees that's extremely likely. He was likely smart enough not to throw games of importance though.
@@mramisuzuki6962 Yes, he died at 31. To my knowledge, 10 years is the requirement for all of the different committees, regardless of era. Everything I've read said that they Veteran's Committee made an exception for him in 1978. But I could definitely be wrong.
If you are not getting paid, then how can you throw a game? That's like firing someone, making them work, and then complaining about the quality of their work.
A study in 2022 proved MLB is using 3 different baseballs. Normal, "jucied", and "dead" balls. They control who gets what, so throw away any records after the 2019 season... which is the first season they used them.
Those studies happen every year, and they only used 3 balls in 2022, in 2019 every ball was "juiced", in 2024 it's been closer to the "goldilocks ball" and no "juiced" or "dead" balls have been found to be used
I'd say he was probably the second best pitcher for those two years behind Tommy Bond. WAR is a rather unreliable stat at times and I don't think it works well at all for early baseball.
@@CapAnson12345 Bond was definitely very good as well, but I don't think he was as good as Devlin. Devlin's ERA+ was higher than Bond's both seasons, and he pitched more innings. You could argue that the ERA+ is skewed by the wonky park factors, but the IP gap is undeniable (especially in 1876), and more IP = more outs = more value. In 1876 I think Devlin was clearly better. In 1877 I think it's much closer, and I think a valid argument could be made for either player.
@@plumisland1070 They did. "Throwing" (as in, throwing overhand) was illegal. And the batter was allowed to dictate whether the pitcher threw high or low. Which kind of makes Devlin's pitching stats all the more impressive, honestly.
saying the blue jays are a 'color-named team' is like saying the seahawks are an 'ocean-named team' Can't equivocate an actual species to color-based team names.
@@GavinOCo I felt like being generous. The team is named after the species, but the species is named after the color. That should count. Maybe. Seems like you're more of a "color purist" and I'm more of a "color inclusionist." Or something like that.
@@mavenofmacau6391 Definitely more than 50, but we can't really know for sure. Didn't have ways of measuring those things back thing. Pitchers did throw underhand in the 1870s, which is better for the arm than throwing overhand, but definitely limits velocity as well. Velocity was probably in the 70s (mph) if I had to guess, but it's very much a guess.
@@mavenofmacau6391 You could say the same about the late 90s/early 2000s because of steroid use. Or the 60s, before they moved the mound back. Or 2019, when the balls were juiced. Or even last season, when they made the bases bigger and changed the rules to encourage more stolen base attempts. The game is always changing, whether it be rule changes, strategy changes, or equipment changes, etc. Where's the dividing line? At what point does it become a "different sport"?
@@mavenofmacau6391 But it didn't suddenly shift from underhand and 600 innings to overhand and 150 innings. That change happened over decades. From full underhand in the 1840s, to sidearm, to overhand finally being officially allowed in 1884. And even in 1884, they were still throwing 600 innings. That change happened even more gradually. Pitchers were still throwing 350+ innings as recently as the 1970s, but pitchers today rarely bresk 200. There's a more noticeable shift in stats from 1985 to 2000 (due to steroids and other factors) than there is from 1875 to 1890, when pitching switched from underhand to overhand. Is 1985 baseball a different sport than baseball in 2000?
@@tgags123HD I see. Thanks. You should try this season's White Sox and compare this year to their worst ever season after the full MLB season is concluded and into the post-season. Just a suggestion since the White Sox is really bad this year.
I think we can just delete all stats from before 1977 (the midpoint of the number of all-time games played in the National League before this season). After the 2024 season, just get click delete on all of the 1977 stats.
An interesting video, but it just reinforces in my mind that all this WAR, fips, launch angle stuff that eggheads have convinced REAL baseball people to follow is just a bunch of hooey. I wish that some team would ignore all these "weighted average this" and "advanced metric that" and go out and smoke the competition that puts credence in what the eggheads tell them. I started following baseball in the late 60s/early 70s, and all we needed to know about players was on the back of their Topps baseball card and in a Street & Smith magazine. Baseball was SO much more interesting then, and yes, it was more predictable since we didn't have some weirdo yelling out that so-and-so hits 0.133459 points higher against left handed pitchers on Tuesday night games on the east coast and were born from piano tuners who graduated from Fordham university in an odd numbered year.
@@williamhild1793 If you prefer to watch baseball without having to think I understand that, but I prefer the complete opposite. Baseball is a very strategic game, and I welcome any stats, data, or metric that allow for a higher understanding of it.
@@burningphoneix David Ortiz tested positive for a banned substance in 2003. Ivan Rodriguez was a PED user according to Jose Canseco, who claims to have personally injected him with steroids. Hank Aaron admitted to taking amphetamines, which is a performance enhancing drug. So did Goose Gossage and Mike Schmidt. A teammate of Willie Mays testified in court, under oath, that he had seen amphetamines in Mays's locker. A teammate of Willie Stargell testified that Stargell provided him with amphetamines. Some former players estimate that over 50% of the league was using amphetamines in the 60s and 70s. Gaylord Perry admitted to using illegal foreign substances on the ball when he pitched. Whitey Ford did the same, using mud, baby oil, turpentine, and/or resin. Hank Greenberg had people in the center field bleachers steal signs and relay to information to him. And these are just a few examples. All of these players are in the Hall of Fame. If you want to exclude "cheaters," you'd have to tear the Hall of Fame down and start from scratch. And even then, I don't think there is a single player that you could say for sure played the game entirely the "right way."
1876? are you coco puffs....You know that premodern baseball doesn't count right? In 1884 Pud Galvin had 20.4 points of WAR. WAR is cumulative! Which means if you start 67 games and face a bunch guys who are just trying to escape digging ditches then your 1.56 ERA (which somehow induced 200 uneraned runs) is really worth your ourtageous WAR total. The best season fo all time sorry not even close. It's not even close to the pre modern season (see above). It you look to 1913 you will see Walter Johnson whith a far mor legit 15.4 points of WAR or Pedro's 11.7 in 2000 over ONLY 29 starts! If you stretch Pedro out over 65 starts Whats that 25 or 26. In fact over 58 start between 99 and 2000 he had 21.5 points of WAR.....so sorry NO not jim Devilpoop
@@jpbouffard And in another 100 years they'll say the same thing about us. The game is constantly changing. Assuming you're referring to the "greatest season of all-time" comment, greatness is about standing out from your contemporaries. And no player had a single season where they dominated the league more than Devlin in 1876. There is no other season in the history of professional baseball where one player was that much better than everyone else. I'm obviously not saying that if Devlin time traveled to 2001 that he could strike out Barry Bonds.
This video would make a lot more sense of you used REAL stats [batting average, hits, RBIs, etc] and not these confusing WAR and OPS things (whatever they mean).
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
this is an amazing video, i love it when people appreciate ballplayers from this era in the same way as any other because there is so much incredible talent that people dont mention from back then from people like Cummings, Keefe, and Jim Creighton
@@declanhearne5784 I completely agree. It's a shame that Baseball Reference only goes back to 1871. I wish we had a better record of stats from the 1850s and 1860s.
@tgags123HD That's probably because there was no real standard for Stat tracking before then. Plus (correct me if I'm wrong) that's the year Major League Baseball began so everything before that wouldn't be relevant to comparing players to before 1871.
The only reason I've ever heard of Jim Devlin was because of Ken Burn's Baseball. Then this pops up, oh man, I'm super happy, such a great video.
@@restock_1731 Thank you! Glad you enjoyed :)
Pokemon Colosseum music is so good in the background
I love this video! Thanks this honestly makes me want to start my own cannel and talk about some of baseball's forgotten legends
The idea that players could go months without being paid in the first place is wild by modern standards. Not even the most rinky-dink of Indy ball leagues would let a team miss a single paycheck without massive repercussions. If this same scandal happened a century later I am not convinced these four get suspended at all, let alone face total expulsion, simply because the underlying cause is SO unacceptable by modern standards.
@@ThatOneGuy8305 Definitely wild by modern standards, but considering this Civil War had just ended 12 years prior, not paying people for their work wasn't exactly a foreign concept at the time.
I follow Irish soccer and this year one of the teams didn’t pay their players in the last few weeks of the season and it caused chaos in the entire league. I think the club as it existed was dissolved, relegated, and may or may not be reestablished by the fans. And this was the worst team in the league by a pretty wide margin with not a huge amount of top tier talent. I can’t imagine if a top team with some of the best players in the league stopped paying them
Shout out to Dwight Gooden. Only dude with a picture that isn't in black and white on bbref
Wow! Such an entertaining and educational video. Keep them coming please.
I don't know why I, a Dutch guy who cares little about baseball got this video in my feed. but it was a great and fascinating watch, even if all the stats terms mean absolutely nothing to me. Let's stick it to the man, and get Jim inducted.
I am an American guy who got a video in my feed explaining the New Amsterdam Suriname swap. Now I’m commenting on a Dutch guys comments. 6 degrees brother.
The reason why he was able to pitch so often is that in the 1870s only underhanded pitching was allowed. Underhand itching is much easier on the shoulder and underhanded pitching could pitch all day underhanded. If you don't believe me, take a look at fast pitch softball players who can pitch doubleheaders easily if needed. No days of rest are needed for underhand pitching as it is a much more natural motion.
My great grandfather was an underhand pitcher from 1890-1900. Billy Rhines
Was the underhand pitching like in beer league softball or more like Dan Quisenberry or Carl Mays?
@@MarlinWilliams-ts5ul Originally, it was llke beer league softball without the high arc, as the point of the game was to get the batter to hit the ball and then rely on fielders to make the outs. Once people figures out that you could do things to make batters miss, then it became more like what you see in college fast pitch softball (although windmilling was not allowed) or the submariner pitchers you mentioned. Although, really by the time overhand was legalized, most pitchers were pitching more sidearm and pushing the limits of the rules which required the ball to be released below the waist. That's probably why they changed the rules. They were being mostly ignored, anyways.
I just found your channel and this video is fantastic!
@@jojothepirate87 Thanks!
Good video! 1800s baseball was a wild place, full of stories and legends, many of which are lost to time.
If you want some video suggestions, some ideas I could suggest from 1800s baseball specifically are-
-The 1884 Union Association
-The 1890 Player's League
-The greatest power hitter in the history of the American Association (Harry Stovey)
-The ONLY left-handed catcher in MLB history to have a lengthy career (Jack Clements)
-Ed Williamson and the 1884 White Stockings home ballpark
I could go on with stories about 1800s baseball worth telling, but I'll leave it here for now. Anyway, once again, good video! Subbed.
@@RealBlueony Thank you!
These 1800s super pitchers have some of the most insane careers. Like the fact 600 innings pitched would often place you 2nd in the league. Look at any of these team aces, and you'll see a graveyard of players.
Turns out, putting nearly 1100 innings in two years leads to permanent damage in your arm, and you retire at 29.
This was excellent. Ive never seen any of your videos before but i suggest you do something like this again
That was awesome, love the team history part! Weird that Louisville's home field yielded so many runs, but yet he only allowed 7 home runs in over 600 innings. With that and all those unearned runs I bet it was a field full of boulders and pot holes. Thanks for the story of Jim Devlin-- He had a sick mustache would be pretty cool on a HOF plaque!
Excellent episode 👏 , thanks for the deep dive into the world of baseball in the 1870's. Enjoyed and subscribed to your channel , thanks for sharing with us.
Great piece and perspective on a time that is too often neglected by " modern era" enthusiasts. Keep it coming.
Excellent presentation! Subscribed.
@@jimmylee2678 Thank you!
Nice job! It can't be easy to make a video about an 1870s baseball player!
a video about nineteenth century baseball well put together. Take my sub
Nice touch with the Pokémon Colosseum music👍🏻
This is a well done fantastic video.
An interesting look at a long ago era of baseball.
this music from pokemon colliseum is throwing me backk bro I could recognize that anytime
They could literally make a movie about Devlin⚾️🎬
My personal favorite player with a 2 year prime is Yankees infielder Snuffy Stirnweiss. He was a serviceable utility player for a good amount of time, but his 2 notable seasons are insane.
During WWII when many star players left for deployment, Snuffy Stirnweiss got his first chances in the bigs. 8.6 WAR in 1944, which led the AL. 8.8 WAR in 1945, which led all of badeball.
His career 103 OPS+ is carried by those two seasons, where his OPS+ was 139 and 145. The latter would be the year where he was the best hitter on the planet.*
* - That was not a soldier in WWII.
His OPS+ for the rest of his career was just 83 and the 8.0 WAR he accrued after 1945 was worse than both of his first 2 seasons as a starter.
You might enjoy the Hall of Merit at Baseball Think Factory. It's definitely not for everyone but your love of spreadsheets and 1800's baseball are the prerequisites. Congrats!
@@EricKoonitsky-s1d Definitely right up my alley! Looks like the original site has been down for a few months, but someone has a backup on a Wix site. Not all of the links work, though, and it's clunky to naviagte on mobile. I'll have to explore it a bit more when I get home. Thanks for the recommendation!
shohei ohtani in a past life doesn't exist, he can't hurt you!
jim devlin:
Have you ever looked at a player named Billy Rhines. He led the league in era two years in the 1880-1890. Outstanding numbers. He also threw underhand.
Just a few days ago, I featured him on my "R.B.I. Baseball 1876 - The Heritage Collection" release, where I publish an R.B.I. Baseball NES video game for all seasons in existence.
This was a great video! Subbed ✅
@@nickselk6250 Thanks!
Lmao the Jon bois references; not even through the video yet and 👌
I would love more videos on 1800s baseball
May I nominate "Big Sam"?
Samuel Luther Thompson, quite the slugger, born in 1860, hailing from Danville, Indiana....
Wow, this should be a tragic hero movie.
Bro has a future in this industry
Bro just invented the sinker, dominated baseball, got kicked out and died. What a life!
Chicago (AL) was known as the Black Sox because Comiskey was too cheap to clean the uniforms. The park he built on 35th Street was on the site of an old garbage dump ; a plate once surfaced years later. The gamblers who talked to the Eight Men Out told them that a World's Series had been thrown before; some think it was the 1918 Series with the Red Sox over the Cubs at Fenway and Comiskey Parks.
Definitely 1918
Jim will be a hall of famer because of you give me 7 years i got bro.
If the Blue Jays are a color-named team, then the Cardinals are also a color-named team. Cardinal, as well as being a bird, is a shade of red.
pitchers really were like superquarterbacks in early baseball.
this guy was basically playing ball by himself
Imagine being so good that even throwing almost half of your games, you still were the best in the league
Jim Devlin mentioned lfg. I stumbled upon him on baseball reference a while ago and realized no one knew about him.
I was looking for the LOVE button for this video.
@@lawrencetaylor4101 I'll hit the love button on your comment instead :)
The idea I never heard of Jim Devlin is Ken Burns erasure and I will not stand for it 😂😂
Seriously, one of the best moments in that whole thing was in the first episode where his letter to Harry Wright was so beautifully recited. I think it was actor David Caruso who did that, I'm not too sure.
Very good video. Was a little surprised there was no mention of Ken Burns' Baseball documentary which included Devlin and the scandal in its first episode (albeit not focusing on his performance, just saying he was a big star for the Grays). All the comments criticizing the heavy use of advanced stats are totally off-base, as are the comments just saying who cares about the pre-modern era.
@@1600film I'm actually not aware of that documentary, I'll have to check it out! I know who Ken Burns is of course, but I know him more for his editing / stylistic techniques than his actual work.
@@tgags123HD Most of the stuff on Cobb in the series is pure fabrication based on the Stump book
I enjoy this and appreciate your learnedness in baseball. That said, you maybe too learned, having found a very fine orange in an apple vs. orange contest, somewhat like a learned monk counting angels on the head of a pin. This man was undoubtedly talented, but in a completely different game and there are too many things that we just cannot know. But the description is very well done and educational, so thank you!
these are good. release the hall of fame video
I'm working on a shortened version of it :)
@tgags123HD release the 123hd cut
I'd watch the fixing the Hall of Fame video!
@@toddbonzalez947 I'll have to see if I can find a way to make an abbreviated version of it. If I do it the way that I originally intended it would be a 15+ hour long video lol.
cant wait to learn the park factor discrepancy for louisville. no doubt you will suss it out 😀
Actually, 2 NL teams are named after colors. The Cardinals were rebranded that because the Perfectos owner overheard a teen girl gushing over the "lovely shade of Cardinal" the team used. Great video, though. I wonder how Josh Gibson's best years look with WAR.
Good video. Charles Radbourne had the best year of all time in 1881. It’s unparalleled. 441 so, 60 wins, 1.38 era. Delvin can’t touch that.
@@K.Dwizzle You mean 1884, right? Definitely a solid choice. I find Devlin's season to be more interesting because he was also his team's best hitter, but Radbourn's 1884 has the edge in pitching for sure. Don't think you could go wrong either way.
@ yes 1884! Sorry. I agree. However Radbourne pitched almost every game that year too. But it’s cool to hear about Devlin, a less spoken about star.
Where can I find a Jim Devlin fan club to join?
Fred Dunlap is the biggest one year wonder in baseball history with his 1884 year. You should make a video about it
@@elizidele2916 His 1884 numbers are crazy. The video would probably have to focus on the the Union Association though; I'm sure it's not a coincidence that his outlier season came when he played in the one and only season of the Union Association's existence. Orator Shafer had a similar outlier season playing in the UA that year. Every team played a different number of games, and I believe the first-place team went 94-19 or something like that lol. Definitely not the most competitive or balanced league.
@@tgags123HD I don’t know too much about leagues other than the ones we have today but I lot of players had outlier 1884 seasons but I would say Dunlaps or Guy Hecker (also in 1884) are the biggest ones
@@tgags123HD not only was the UA unbalanced and non-competitive, but the next year, the team that won the UA pennant (the St Louis Maroons) was added to the NL, and they promptly finished tied for last in terms of games behind 1st, and alone in last in terms of winning percentage.
@@RealBlueony Hahaha that's awesome
@@tgags123HD Joe Quinn was a member of both this team, and the Manager of the 1899 Cleveland Spiders (20-134). The only player on both the best and worst teams to play over 100 games in a Season in ML History.
completely different world in pro ball. his arm was probably toast at the end.
Gerhardt hit 212 screaming line drives directly at the center fielder.
The cardinals are named after cardinal red, so there are the same mlb percenage names of color, as sox.
Wait I thought the Football Cardinals were named after the color and the team was named Bird.
The Cardinals are also named after a colour.
@@mikeycham3643 SHIT you're right. Never heard of the color "cardinal" before, but the internet confirms that it does indeed exist. There goes my statistical analysis :(
I believe they were called the Cardinals after the hue of their uniforms. I'll bet you're more likely than I am to go find a source for that.
Also I'm really enjoying this content. Your breathing life into 19th century baseball arcana, tickles a rarely reached corner of my aging mind.
@@mikeycham3643 There's an article by Anne Rogers on the MLB website that does indeed state that the Cardinals got their name from the red trim on their uniforms. I never knew that; I always just assumed they were named after the bird. And thank you for the kind words!
@tgags123HD Yeah, I think the story, possibly apocryphal, goes that the owner's wife commented the uniforms were, "a lovely shade of cardinal, " or something along those lines.
This scandal is also why the Brown-Stockings disappeared from baseball.
He was having the best season ever the same summer Custer got massacred.
7:30 ... You missed a CFL joke here.
what about Denny Mclain 1968
Mclain didnt throw any games.
Ty Cobb said there were at least 9 thrown world series he was aware of.
Old Ty probably threw a game or two himself, even the guy revising his supposed racism and black character agrees that's extremely likely. He was likely smart enough not to throw games of importance though.
@@D.D.-ud9zt The Dutch Leonard allegations weren't even backed up by the guy who made them.
Let's face it: Judge is almost certainly juiced.
What??!??? No mention of Sandy Koufax 1963-64-65-66 ??!?!?
Sandy wasn't a cheat.
Back in those days people had real lives.
Not being the barer of bad news but don’t you have to play at least 10 seasons for an old time recommendation.
@@mramisuzuki6962 Tell that to Addie Joss!
(Under current rules, yes, but it's a dumb rule in my opinion)
@@tgags123HD Addie Joss played in the 20th century. He has the 7 year rule and died as an active player. He’s the TB guy right?
@@mramisuzuki6962 Yes, he died at 31. To my knowledge, 10 years is the requirement for all of the different committees, regardless of era. Everything I've read said that they Veteran's Committee made an exception for him in 1978. But I could definitely be wrong.
@@tgags123HD You're most likely correct. Besides, he's the all-time leader in WHIP (0.968).
I think they only played like 65 games back then
Also 1921 was Ruth's best season.
The Cardinals were originally named after the color. And the Detroit Tigers were named after their striped socks.
If you are not getting paid, then how can you throw a game? That's like firing someone, making them work, and then complaining about the quality of their work.
How much is Devlins card worth?😅
A study in 2022 proved MLB is using 3 different baseballs. Normal, "jucied", and "dead" balls. They control who gets what, so throw away any records after the 2019 season... which is the first season they used them.
Those studies happen every year, and they only used 3 balls in 2022, in 2019 every ball was "juiced", in 2024 it's been closer to the "goldilocks ball" and no "juiced" or "dead" balls have been found to be used
I'd say he was probably the second best pitcher for those two years behind Tommy Bond. WAR is a rather unreliable stat at times and I don't think it works well at all for early baseball.
@@CapAnson12345 Bond was definitely very good as well, but I don't think he was as good as Devlin. Devlin's ERA+ was higher than Bond's both seasons, and he pitched more innings. You could argue that the ERA+ is skewed by the wonky park factors, but the IP gap is undeniable (especially in 1876), and more IP = more outs = more value. In 1876 I think Devlin was clearly better. In 1877 I think it's much closer, and I think a valid argument could be made for either player.
Pedro...232 OPS+
Idk Old Hoss Radbourn should be in any consideration.
They pitched underhanded back then.
@@plumisland1070 They did. "Throwing" (as in, throwing overhand) was illegal. And the batter was allowed to dictate whether the pitcher threw high or low. Which kind of makes Devlin's pitching stats all the more impressive, honestly.
@@tgags123HD And the stats for most players still look similar to now. They had to field grounders and catch the ball with no gloves.
saying the blue jays are a 'color-named team' is like saying the seahawks are an 'ocean-named team'
Can't equivocate an actual species to color-based team names.
@@GavinOCo I felt like being generous. The team is named after the species, but the species is named after the color. That should count. Maybe. Seems like you're more of a "color purist" and I'm more of a "color inclusionist." Or something like that.
@@tgags123HD Hahaha, thats a good way of putting it. I am more of a color purist.
68 GS 66 GF different game then.
GF is a Relief Pitching Stat which is used as a balancing tool.
Dude could have fought in the Civil War 😂
how can someone throw 600 innings in one year? was he throwing 50?
@@mavenofmacau6391 Definitely more than 50, but we can't really know for sure. Didn't have ways of measuring those things back thing. Pitchers did throw underhand in the 1870s, which is better for the arm than throwing overhand, but definitely limits velocity as well. Velocity was probably in the 70s (mph) if I had to guess, but it's very much a guess.
@@tgags123HD respect the video and all. but it's another sport.
@@mavenofmacau6391 You could say the same about the late 90s/early 2000s because of steroid use. Or the 60s, before they moved the mound back. Or 2019, when the balls were juiced. Or even last season, when they made the bases bigger and changed the rules to encourage more stolen base attempts. The game is always changing, whether it be rule changes, strategy changes, or equipment changes, etc. Where's the dividing line? At what point does it become a "different sport"?
@@tgags123HD i think a safe place to start is when a guy throws underhand and 600 innings a year.
@@mavenofmacau6391 But it didn't suddenly shift from underhand and 600 innings to overhand and 150 innings. That change happened over decades. From full underhand in the 1840s, to sidearm, to overhand finally being officially allowed in 1884. And even in 1884, they were still throwing 600 innings. That change happened even more gradually. Pitchers were still throwing 350+ innings as recently as the 1970s, but pitchers today rarely bresk 200. There's a more noticeable shift in stats from 1985 to 2000 (due to steroids and other factors) than there is from 1875 to 1890, when pitching switched from underhand to overhand. Is 1985 baseball a different sport than baseball in 2000?
Yaz? No..
What about 2024 Shohei Ohtani?
@@chinny18 Not even the best player this season
@@tgags123HD I see. Thanks. You should try this season's White Sox and compare this year to their worst ever season after the full MLB season is concluded and into the post-season.
Just a suggestion since the White Sox is really bad this year.
I think we can just delete all stats from before 1977 (the midpoint of the number of all-time games played in the National League before this season). After the 2024 season, just get click delete on all of the 1977 stats.
The midpoint of all games between 1977-2023 (54,727 games) is between the 1999 and 2000 season. Then 2011-2012. Then 2016-2017. Then 2019-2020.
It is pronou ced Loo-i-ville
Not Looey- ville
@@Steve-gx9ot Same thing, different accent
Grwat video. Too much black. it's weird.
Cool video, but your conclusion is absurd. Anyone caught throwing games, in any competition, should be banned from further competition.
Step off.
An interesting video, but it just reinforces in my mind that all this WAR, fips, launch angle stuff that eggheads have convinced REAL baseball people to follow is just a bunch of hooey. I wish that some team would ignore all these "weighted average this" and "advanced metric that" and go out and smoke the competition that puts credence in what the eggheads tell them. I started following baseball in the late 60s/early 70s, and all we needed to know about players was on the back of their Topps baseball card and in a Street & Smith magazine. Baseball was SO much more interesting then, and yes, it was more predictable since we didn't have some weirdo yelling out that so-and-so hits 0.133459 points higher against left handed pitchers on Tuesday night games on the east coast and were born from piano tuners who graduated from Fordham university in an odd numbered year.
@@williamhild1793 If you prefer to watch baseball without having to think I understand that, but I prefer the complete opposite. Baseball is a very strategic game, and I welcome any stats, data, or metric that allow for a higher understanding of it.
No, he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame cause he cheated.
@@burningphoneix David Ortiz tested positive for a banned substance in 2003. Ivan Rodriguez was a PED user according to Jose Canseco, who claims to have personally injected him with steroids. Hank Aaron admitted to taking amphetamines, which is a performance enhancing drug. So did Goose Gossage and Mike Schmidt. A teammate of Willie Mays testified in court, under oath, that he had seen amphetamines in Mays's locker. A teammate of Willie Stargell testified that Stargell provided him with amphetamines. Some former players estimate that over 50% of the league was using amphetamines in the 60s and 70s. Gaylord Perry admitted to using illegal foreign substances on the ball when he pitched. Whitey Ford did the same, using mud, baby oil, turpentine, and/or resin. Hank Greenberg had people in the center field bleachers steal signs and relay to information to him. And these are just a few examples. All of these players are in the Hall of Fame. If you want to exclude "cheaters," you'd have to tear the Hall of Fame down and start from scratch. And even then, I don't think there is a single player that you could say for sure played the game entirely the "right way."
Get that pokemon xd music out of this baseball video.
1876? are you coco puffs....You know that premodern baseball doesn't count right? In 1884 Pud Galvin had 20.4 points of WAR. WAR is cumulative! Which means if you start 67 games and face a bunch guys who are just trying to escape digging ditches then your 1.56 ERA (which somehow induced 200 uneraned runs) is really worth your ourtageous WAR total. The best season fo all time sorry not even close. It's not even close to the pre modern season (see above). It you look to 1913 you will see Walter Johnson whith a far mor legit 15.4 points of WAR or Pedro's 11.7 in 2000 over ONLY 29 starts! If you stretch Pedro out over 65 starts Whats that 25 or 26. In fact over 58 start between 99 and 2000 he had 21.5 points of WAR.....so sorry NO not jim Devilpoop
I like how the entire foundation of your video is WAR, and it highlights just how dumb and useless of a stat WAR is. It's just so painfully dumb 😂
The best players tend to always have the most WAR, every single season. Weird.
@@msscott22 dumb broad thinks she made an observation 😂
You can’t be serious. It was an entirely different game, in an entirely different culture, when the population was a fraction of what it is now.
@@jpbouffard And in another 100 years they'll say the same thing about us. The game is constantly changing. Assuming you're referring to the "greatest season of all-time" comment, greatness is about standing out from your contemporaries. And no player had a single season where they dominated the league more than Devlin in 1876. There is no other season in the history of professional baseball where one player was that much better than everyone else. I'm obviously not saying that if Devlin time traveled to 2001 that he could strike out Barry Bonds.
@jpbouffard pwned
Please shove OPS, WAR and the rest of that crap into a drawer and lock it. It is ruining the love for the best game ever invented.
@@b.t.2796 OPS has been around since the 1800s. Henry Chadwick was keeping track of OBP and SLG (the two components of OPS) in the 1850s and 1860s.
This video would make a lot more sense of you used REAL stats [batting average, hits, RBIs, etc] and not these confusing WAR and OPS things (whatever they mean).
This video is in legendary status⚾️🔥🫡