After playing my FM3 for over a year using IRs into my FRFR I have never been happy with the live sound in the room unless I used a tube amp and cab until I saw your video, it has transformed the way I think and sounds so “unprocessed” now and has given me a new appreciation of my FRFR speaker.
I usually just apply a LPF and HPF on the cab block I’m using and then add a room reverb and it makes it come alive quite a bit. Especially in an IEM rig!
Great video, Cooper! I'm so glad you explained that the modeler gives you the sound of a RECORDED guitar through an amp and speaker cabinet or, live, the sound of a MIC'D amp and speaker cabinet through a P.A. There are so many people obsessed with having that "amp in the room" sound. Well, that's fine if the guitarist never plays his guitar outside of his bedroom or garage. It's also fine if he's playing such a small venue that the audience hears only the stage volume of the musicians' equipment. But if the guitarist records his music and/ or plays a venue large enough that the audience is going to hear his guitar amp and cabinet mic'd through a P.A., the listeners aren't going to hear that "amp in the room" sound, even if the guitarist is playing through a conventional amp and cabinet! Personally, I'd rather have the bazillions of benefits from the modeler and hear much more closely what the listeners are going to hear!
I kind of was understanding where you were going but then you lost me. 🤔 OK, so 2 things, recorded guitar sound is totally different then "Live" mic'd amp in a live on stage setting. For me, this tutorial is super awesome because it helps the musician decide whether they want the "Recorded" type sound, or the "Live" on stage sound. I personally prefer the Live Micd sound since most venues now don't want stage noise and everyone is using in ear monitors. So sometimes if you use the recorded type setup, you totally get lost in the mix when playing in a Live stage setting. With Cooper's idea, the amp in the room setup would allow you to stick out in the mix as if you totally had a mic on a real AMP and Cab. But again, I may be wrong altogether. 😅 Still I appreciate your information.
Wow, that's awesome can't wait to try that tonight. ***Update*** Again, wow. I tried it on a new patch I made yesterday. This I feel was the last step I really needed to mold my tone to the sound I was chasing. Thanks Cooper. Also your masterclass is amazing.
This is a great tip! For me though, I've found heaven with these modellers because I could never gel with "amp in the room". I've even preferred the sound of my amp "in another room" LOL. Finally finding gear that creates the recorded tones I've been hearing in my head for decades has been like a dream come true. In my view if you want "Amp in the Room", go buy an amp, and put it in a room. (Or power amp and cab with a modeller of course).
That's exactly why back in the day I used to run a stone stupid RedBox or ADA GCS after older gen's digital modelers; I found that in a gig context they provided a better overall tone, also easier to dial and adapt to the different rooms and PA systems. To me this old "trick" could still be useful depending on the specific context: if you play in a small venue (I mean, a VERY small venue like a tiny club) where the PA system is only used for the vocals (and maybe just some drums, like kick for example) while the rest of the band plays through their amps, this could still have its place, simply because you're treating the PA (or a standalone FRFR speaker) like a guitar cab. If you're playing larger venues though where all the band is mic'd up and the stage is completely silent (eg. with iso cabs) or partially silent but the main source of sound for the crowd is still the PA, at that point I would definitely run a complete chain with IRs, because it would be much more coherent with what's happening with the rest of the band. My unrequested 2 cents anyway lol. Anyway with Fractal even this static filter sounds much better than the old Redbox or similar analog filters, so it's worth giving a try if you're not happy with IRs imho.
For "In The Room" tone you want to remove the mic; take the IR, load it into an audio wave editor and invert it, then use the original IR and the inverted IR in series to remove the mic but keep the cab.
I think most IRs sound like that because they were shot close-miked. There are IRs out there which were shot Far-Field, and should reproduce this behaviour. Some are stock on the AxeFX in case you want to give them a try guys. Also, I always use the settings on the Cab block to trim the top and bottom of the spectrum, so I don't have to add blocks to the chain. Less precise control than the Filter or EQ block, but quick to use and I like my presets nice and tidy :)
You should have also added that, a couple years ago, Fractal also shared a bunch of far-field IRs for free, as those are made for the same purpose and probably not everyone knows about them.
This works brilliantly! Great trick Cooper. Just one little suggestion, after you set the Filter and before you dial in the GEQ you might wanne try a different Speaker Imp. Curve in the Amp block. That can really change the character of the sound and make it more to your liking. Bottim line, my live set-up is now IR-less and it sounds great!!
That sounds pretty clean to my ears. Very similar to the 1x6 oval cab IR in fractals legacy cab library. Thats my favourite IR, cuz it sits perfectly in the mix without any eq-ing.
This is great. Coming from a guy who still swears by tube amps. I use my fm9 through a tube power amp into a 4x12 and the feel and tone is just as good as the real thing. Depends on what amp model you use though. Some are unable to determine if it’s the real thing or digital. For the amp models I use on the fm9, blind ear tests couldn’t tell a difference.
I much prefer the full range sound of the modeler/IR combo. No different than listening to the "finished" tone on any album. Definitely helps to trim off that sub-350Hz, and dial back the high end above 5k in any amp block's EQ section. It's more natural for the guitar, and keeping in mind that the AF3 is designed for a variety of instruments, is a necessity. Always sounds great in headphones or on an FR monitor. Though it does make sense that some guys are looking for the more midrange-focused tone of a traditional amp.
It would be cool if there were cab models that model just the speaker and cabinet without the mic. I realize that's pretty far fetched compared to modelling amps, since amps are discrete electronic devices and speakers are mechanical moving objects. But what I'd like is e.g. a Greenback 4x12 model without the mic, so I can hear my fractal through an FRFR as if it was a hardware amp and a hardware guitar cab.
still waiting for my fm9 to arrive. hope this isnt a stupid question....would it make more sense to branch off the signal chain pre cab and map it to another output? that way you get the stage sound you want via the secondary output and the crowd gets the "cab sound" out of another output direct to FOH? so glad i found your videos!
So obviously the IR is just a super detailed EQ that shapes the tone into what would come out of a particular speaker. If i like the tone of a IR, can i use the frequency filters within cab block to accomplish a cab in the room of a particular speaker used for creating the IR?
I think that makes perfect sense, was thinking the same. This way is better if you don’t want to do the eq’ing yourself but still want the “amp in the room sound”
Sounds awesome why doesn’t fractal come up with something like this for specific speakers apposed to a micd speaker seems like it would be easy enough ?
Вместе со звуком собственно инструмента мы всегда слышим ещё и "комнату", то есть эхо, многократно отражённое от поверхностей - реверберацию. Так что, чтобы добиться "эффекта усилителя" в комнате, надо к вашему любимому IR добавить ещё и реверберацию по вкусу (но в очень гомеопатических дозах!).
It sounds for me that the GEQ is the same like the cab block but not a special cab but a customized by own. And the Filter is transforming FRFR into a speaker. Wouldn't it be the same if you would make this chain: Amp - Filter - Cab ? Do you have an amp in the room sound with your favorite Amp+Speaker if you do this with an FRFR Speaker?
Awesome video, thanks for making this. Instantly won my respect by putting this out there for free. If I grab a fractal I'll be checking out your course. I'm running NDSP plugins and recently tried out a Fender Tone Master Pro modeler. I'm bouncing back and forth from studio monitors and a the return section of my Revv G20 power amp into a 4x12 (75s/v30s). Do you cover mixing guitars and what frequeinces to modify with an EQ to get better sounds?
as a longtime JMP-1 user, just come into the FM3/Fractal universe, Leon Todd, luckily, uploaded an IR of the JMP-1's Speaker Emulated Out to the Fractal Forum a few years back in 2020. He essentially said that the JMP-1 Spkr Emu was a static EQ "filter" that could easily be replicated by placing one of the PEQ blocks in the chain post-amp. Suddenly, here I am watching a very similar thing. Great video!
This is great. But, and maybe I'm just a bit slow here, what I don't get is this: if guitar speakers/cabs typically have those frequency range limits, why don't the cab sims already do what you're doing with the filter and EQ here?
Can I do this on one scene, and split the signal pre IR / pre filter block, and have the IR go to my DAW and the filter block go to my FRFR power cab? I just ordered my AxeFx3 and it’ll be here next week.
Hey Cooper, how would this translate to live sounds? If we're playing through and FRFR cabinet in creating our live sound, should we be placing this high cut in there as well? I think most venues use a mostly flat PA system (hopefully) so what we model is (mostly) exactly what comes out live. Or should we be leaving some of the top end in there and let a FOH engineer remove it if he wants?
When you put in the filter block your cab is no longer FRFR because the frequency range has been limited. It now kinda acts like a "normal" guitarcab. The mike is normally "baked in" into the IR but now it isn''t. So you could also mike your cab up live. And like Cooper said, you always have to put your sound into the hands of your soundguy/gal. Make sure you get a good one! :-)
Hey Cooper, hoping u can help. There was a video either by u or Leon which shows how to setup for tube amp as monitor while still using foh connection. Fm edit from what I remember had the basic preset with out1. However that same chain branched out to separate row from input to an external amp with no out,essentially amp is stage volume. Can u direct me to link or confirm that setup?
These damn things can seemingly do everything, whether you want it to do it or not. I really do kind of miss the amp-in-the-room sound, and I can't do this with my current rig (at least not that easily). I am so mad that it took me so long to find Fractal and didn't get on that waitlist earlier. I really, really, really want the FM9 but it's getting really hard to wait and that chip shortage is killing me. If the rackmount + the FC6 were closer in price to the FM9 I'd have already gone that way. The FM3 is very tempting, but I really think I'll regret not waiting for the FM9. In the mean time, I'm just going to sit here with my (now, very old) ElevenRack and sulk.
Hi Cooper help me out pls. I have a Fractal FM9. I’ve dialed in and tweaked my tones using a headset. They sound heavenly in the headset. But when I played live, the Drive and Distortion tone sounded plasticky crackling trash in FOH/PA. Too much Treble and Glassy Piercing Highs. when connected to FOH. I bought my own PA and when I connected it to PA it sounded the same harsh highs, no character, nothing like what I tweaked when Im using a headset. How do I make my headset tones tweaked in my home, sound as awesome live via FOH? FOH: JBL PRX812 12inch, Yamaha DXR12 Headset: Bose Quiet Comfort 35
Frequencies will sound different to the human ear at different volumes/decibel levels so if you want to set up tones for live shows set them up with the PA *loud* at gig volumes or as close as you can. Also Bose are not flat/reference headphones. Studio headphones from Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic will be much closer in sound to studio monitors and PA systems.
He is keeping the cab block in the signal chain together with the filter and EQ blocks added. Eliminating the cab block will sound harsh and terrible as he demonstrated.
@@SteveKuhMusic I’m with you; I was thinking it sounded great, but a volume cut helped. My thinking is to hook up output two like this and then output 1 with cab. Hook up stereo pa and a mono amp on stage and really gave some fun.
doesn't really work for me. I get good results with mixing 2 ultra res irs and altering proximity of one to 1.5 and 1.1 of the other. i use bb55 irs. sounds great.
Or you could use one of the original non microphoned IRs from Legacy series, like V30 cab. On the II you added the mic choice, they were not baked in as all newer ones are. And then add a room IR to further enhance.
I'll have to dig into theses more because I do not like, at all, the speakers colored with the mic. Chicken or the egg... how do you capture the sound of a speaker without a mic...
When I think "amp in the room", I think of a cab behind me, 3 or 4 feet below my ears, and all of the associated room reflections. Why I'd ever want that sound in a modeler (live or recorded) is beyond me, given that every single classic guitar tone that I've coveted has been from a recording of a mic'd up amp. The approach you describe and demonstrate, to me, sounds more like a cheap cab simulator than an "amp in the room".
What I dialed in here won't sound right on your speaker, especially if it's a phone or laptop speaker. It's specific to what you're monitoring on. So load the preset and then crank it on your own FRFR system and adjust the EQ to taste.
@@karlhouseknecht try it with your Adams. I know guys who've had fun results with this method through those. But overall, I'm with you: I love the sound of the fully modelled signal chain in a great IR. This isn't for everyone.
This demo to me is more for a live cab sound more or less and not “amp in the room”. I play live with a 2x12 cab and have to disable the cab block on my FM9. What Cooper dials in here is kinda what I have to do live, I can’t use an IR into a real cab cuz that just sounds way off so I EQ after my amp to get the best out my speakers. 🤘🏼✌🏼
@@coopercarter I’m my bedroom, through my EV monitors, it sounds very much worth doing/trying. Thanks for the info. 🤘🏼 I’m interested in how it sounds at my next gig…..
This is not the only way you can achieve this kinda an "effect"! Recorded IR's have a greater resolution, which means that the spikes of EQ curve are pretty "sharp", which means that at some point we have on 1530hz=+4db, and on 1536hz=-2db, and 1550hz=+6db, etc... This kinda jumps in volume in such small sections of frequency is not natural to our ears. This is how microphones "hear" things, and it's a lot more different than our ears! Our ears are far more sophisticated tools, but they are not created for this kind of resolution! This is the reason why the majority of IR's sounds a little bit weird to me... In CabLab 3 you have a knob called SMOOTHING that actually flattens these spikes to have more natural EQ slopes and therefore, the amp in a room sound, which will preserve the actual "feel" -> eq curve of the cabinet itself, thus you won't be needing EQ after... try it.... :)
but you would have the color of the mic anyways, the cooper trick lets you with thea real sound of the speakers and cab of the FRFR that you have (works great in my 212 FRFR)
@@richo144 Yeah, men, I know... :) I don't have a problem with this approach at all! I was simply trying to provide an alternate approach on how to achieve Amp in the room sound that worked well for me... :)
Not a fan of this trick because it’s no different sounding than your typical “emulated cab” option a lot of amps use. There’s simply too many spikes and dips in a real speaker’s eq as well as the influence of the cabinet itself for this type of thing to really represent accurately. It’s best to just accept it and use frfr as what it is. if one is dead set on needing a real cab sound, use a real cab and a power amp.
I’m not understanding what psychopath would want this. It’s no not better to me than starting with a great IR and working with the room settings on the cab block.
After playing my FM3 for over a year using IRs into my FRFR I have never been happy with the live sound in the room unless I used a tube amp and cab until I saw your video, it has transformed the way I think and sounds so “unprocessed” now and has given me a new appreciation of my FRFR speaker.
This is why I love my ampero 2. In addition to IR blocks, it also has speaker blocks
OMG! I don't hate the sound from my headphones anymore! Yay! Thanks so much for this tip. I'll be signing up for your master classes soon.
Friedman Modeling Cabinet. A little pricey, but the absolute best FRFR cab out there. Sounds like a great combo cab
I usually just apply a LPF and HPF on the cab block I’m using and then add a room reverb and it makes it come alive quite a bit. Especially in an IEM rig!
Great video, Cooper! I'm so glad you explained that the modeler gives you the sound of a RECORDED guitar through an amp and speaker cabinet or, live, the sound of a MIC'D amp and speaker cabinet through a P.A.
There are so many people obsessed with having that "amp in the room" sound. Well, that's fine if the guitarist never plays his guitar outside of his bedroom or garage. It's also fine if he's playing such a small venue that the audience hears only the stage volume of the musicians' equipment. But if the guitarist records his music and/ or plays a venue large enough that the audience is going to hear his guitar amp and cabinet mic'd through a P.A., the listeners aren't going to hear that "amp in the room" sound, even if the guitarist is playing through a conventional amp and cabinet! Personally, I'd rather have the bazillions of benefits from the modeler and hear much more closely what the listeners are going to hear!
I kind of was understanding where you were going but then you lost me. 🤔
OK, so 2 things, recorded guitar sound is totally different then "Live" mic'd amp in a live on stage setting.
For me, this tutorial is super awesome because it helps the musician decide whether they want the "Recorded" type sound, or the "Live" on stage sound.
I personally prefer the Live Micd sound since most venues now don't want stage noise and everyone is using in ear monitors. So sometimes if you use the recorded type setup, you totally get lost in the mix when playing in a Live stage setting. With Cooper's idea, the amp in the room setup would allow you to stick out in the mix as if you totally had a mic on a real AMP and Cab.
But again, I may be wrong altogether. 😅 Still I appreciate your information.
So we are back to the old Redbox trick? All this year ,all this code all those ir then we rediscover the old “eq cab sim ?” Trick?
Wow, that's awesome can't wait to try that tonight. ***Update*** Again, wow. I tried it on a new patch I made yesterday. This I feel was the last step I really needed to mold my tone to the sound I was chasing. Thanks Cooper. Also your masterclass is amazing.
This is a great tip! For me though, I've found heaven with these modellers because I could never gel with "amp in the room". I've even preferred the sound of my amp "in another room" LOL. Finally finding gear that creates the recorded tones I've been hearing in my head for decades has been like a dream come true. In my view if you want "Amp in the Room", go buy an amp, and put it in a room. (Or power amp and cab with a modeller of course).
This is FANTASTIC. I can't see myself going back to IRs for bedroom noodling now. So simple.
i will try it, but i also found really helpful the "proximity" parameter
Thank you so much!
This tip really change the whole feel of my rig.
I'm actually doing this for a long time. I even built my pedal board with a low pass filter and some distortions to replace any amp & cab simulations
That's exactly why back in the day I used to run a stone stupid RedBox or ADA GCS after older gen's digital modelers; I found that in a gig context they provided a better overall tone, also easier to dial and adapt to the different rooms and PA systems. To me this old "trick" could still be useful depending on the specific context: if you play in a small venue (I mean, a VERY small venue like a tiny club) where the PA system is only used for the vocals (and maybe just some drums, like kick for example) while the rest of the band plays through their amps, this could still have its place, simply because you're treating the PA (or a standalone FRFR speaker) like a guitar cab.
If you're playing larger venues though where all the band is mic'd up and the stage is completely silent (eg. with iso cabs) or partially silent but the main source of sound for the crowd is still the PA, at that point I would definitely run a complete chain with IRs, because it would be much more coherent with what's happening with the rest of the band. My unrequested 2 cents anyway lol.
Anyway with Fractal even this static filter sounds much better than the old Redbox or similar analog filters, so it's worth giving a try if you're not happy with IRs imho.
For "In The Room" tone you want to remove the mic; take the IR, load it into an audio wave editor and invert it, then use the original IR and the inverted IR in series to remove the mic but keep the cab.
You can get amp in the room IRs. They're always better than static filters. You just made an obsolete cab emulator.
Where do you get yours?
Man...Awesome...can't wait to try it...Definitely approaching Brown Sound land.
I think most IRs sound like that because they were shot close-miked.
There are IRs out there which were shot Far-Field, and should reproduce this behaviour. Some are stock on the AxeFX in case you want to give them a try guys.
Also, I always use the settings on the Cab block to trim the top and bottom of the spectrum, so I don't have to add blocks to the chain.
Less precise control than the Filter or EQ block, but quick to use and I like my presets nice and tidy :)
How do I find those stock IRs on a Fractal unit?
/new FM9 owner 🙂
@@geestarrawify You can find them entering "JM" in the search bar in your FM9-EDIT.
There are only a few
okay I'm loving this so far!!! thanks!!!!
Cooper, your videos are great! Please keep 'em coming!
Really great insight. Made a huge difference with my powered stage monitors. Thank you!
Wow that works F'N great!! Thank You!!
You should have also added that, a couple years ago, Fractal also shared a bunch of far-field IRs for free, as those are made for the same purpose and probably not everyone knows about them.
I’ve tried leaving the cab on too and it’s magical 🎉
Sounds awesome gonna try this and it's so simple as he stated.
Spot on there Cooper, great tip.
This works brilliantly! Great trick Cooper. Just one little suggestion, after you set the Filter and before you dial in the GEQ you might wanne try a different Speaker Imp. Curve in the Amp block. That can really change the character of the sound and make it more to your liking. Bottim line, my live set-up is now IR-less and it sounds great!!
Just tried this out and actually sounds really solid! Experimenting with different EQ after the filter you can get some nice different sounding stuff!
That sounds pretty clean to my ears. Very similar to the 1x6 oval cab IR in fractals legacy cab library. Thats my favourite IR, cuz it sits perfectly in the mix without any eq-ing.
This is great. Coming from a guy who still swears by tube amps. I use my fm9 through a tube power amp into a 4x12 and the feel and tone is just as good as the real thing. Depends on what amp model you use though. Some are unable to determine if it’s the real thing or digital. For the amp models I use on the fm9, blind ear tests couldn’t tell a difference.
I much prefer the full range sound of the modeler/IR combo. No different than listening to the "finished" tone on any album.
Definitely helps to trim off that sub-350Hz, and dial back the high end above 5k in any amp block's EQ section.
It's more natural for the guitar, and keeping in mind that the AF3 is designed for a variety of instruments, is a necessity. Always sounds great in headphones or on an FR monitor.
Though it does make sense that some guys are looking for the more midrange-focused tone of a traditional amp.
Well why not use a parametric eq and model the the speaker frequency response that every manufacture publishes with their speaker specifications?
Killer video!
Cliff Chase should get a Nobel genius Award for the axfx products
And Matt too.
It would be cool if there were cab models that model just the speaker and cabinet without the mic. I realize that's pretty far fetched compared to modelling amps, since amps are discrete electronic devices and speakers are mechanical moving objects. But what I'd like is e.g. a Greenback 4x12 model without the mic, so I can hear my fractal through an FRFR as if it was a hardware amp and a hardware guitar cab.
still waiting for my fm9 to arrive. hope this isnt a stupid question....would it make more sense to branch off the signal chain pre cab and map it to another output? that way you get the stage sound you want via the secondary output and the crowd gets the "cab sound" out of another output direct to FOH?
so glad i found your videos!
So obviously the IR is just a super detailed EQ that shapes the tone into what would come out of a particular speaker. If i like the tone of a IR, can i use the frequency filters within cab block to accomplish a cab in the room of a particular speaker used for creating the IR?
I think that makes perfect sense, was thinking the same. This way is better if you don’t want to do the eq’ing yourself but still want the “amp in the room sound”
I like the tone you got just from the filter block. We all have different taste.
Yeah it's pretty great right off the bat!
Sounds awesome why doesn’t fractal come up with something like this for specific speakers apposed to a micd speaker seems like it would be easy enough ?
DUDE!!!!! THIS IS EPIC.
This is definitely worth a try
Back in the early days of modeling with my POD x3, I always said that cab sims are just further EQing. IR's are great though.
Вместе со звуком собственно инструмента мы всегда слышим ещё и "комнату", то есть эхо, многократно отражённое от поверхностей - реверберацию. Так что, чтобы добиться "эффекта усилителя" в комнате, надо к вашему любимому IR добавить ещё и реверберацию по вкусу (но в очень гомеопатических дозах!).
Super cool tip!!! Thanks!!!
Would that differ much from setting hi and low cuts on cabinet and using amp EQ’s 😊
Really good Tip Thanks..
Can you also run the cab as well would it round it our even more?
Thanks for your Videos and Tips🤘
Would you want to do this on every live output? Why would you want these extra frequencies to be in the mix?
Great trick. At home it does not sound so good with monitors (Adam t7v). Any suggestion?
Hi Cooper, would you have an idea to quickly audition presets within this setup?
It sounds for me that the GEQ is the same like the cab block but not a special cab but a customized by own.
And the Filter is transforming FRFR into a speaker.
Wouldn't it be the same if you would make this chain: Amp - Filter - Cab ?
Do you have an amp in the room sound with your favorite Amp+Speaker if you do this with an FRFR Speaker?
Awesome video, thanks for making this. Instantly won my respect by putting this out there for free. If I grab a fractal I'll be checking out your course.
I'm running NDSP plugins and recently tried out a Fender Tone Master Pro modeler. I'm bouncing back and forth from studio monitors and a the return section of my Revv G20 power amp into a 4x12 (75s/v30s).
Do you cover mixing guitars and what frequeinces to modify with an EQ to get better sounds?
So I removed all the tones I made in my pod go!
Thanks for great tip dor tone making!
🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟
Pretty awesome!
as a longtime JMP-1 user, just come into the FM3/Fractal universe, Leon Todd, luckily, uploaded an IR of the JMP-1's Speaker Emulated Out to the Fractal Forum a few years back in 2020. He essentially said that the JMP-1 Spkr Emu was a static EQ "filter" that could easily be replicated by placing one of the PEQ blocks in the chain post-amp. Suddenly, here I am watching a very similar thing. Great video!
This is great. But, and maybe I'm just a bit slow here, what I don't get is this: if guitar speakers/cabs typically have those frequency range limits, why don't the cab sims already do what you're doing with the filter and EQ here?
I'm also wondering how this would translate to life use when DI'd into the PA?
I was also wondering this.
Exactly. I've been wondering this ever since I started on this path!
GAMECHANGER! Thank you! And how about the CPU now!
Thanks Cooper. Can this same technique be used on AXE FX2 XL + ?
Sure!
Can I do this on one scene, and split the signal pre IR / pre filter block, and have the IR go to my DAW and the filter block go to my FRFR power cab? I just ordered my AxeFx3 and it’ll be here next week.
Am I right in assuming this would be mostly the same outcome when your "FRFR" is the stage monitor and/or the PA when you're just running direct?
Hey Cooper, how would this translate to live sounds? If we're playing through and FRFR cabinet in creating our live sound, should we be placing this high cut in there as well? I think most venues use a mostly flat PA system (hopefully) so what we model is (mostly) exactly what comes out live. Or should we be leaving some of the top end in there and let a FOH engineer remove it if he wants?
Up to you. A lot of guys high and low cut the cabinet block, but I usually leave it up to front of house.
When you put in the filter block your cab is no longer FRFR because the frequency range has been limited. It now kinda acts like a "normal" guitarcab. The mike is normally "baked in" into the IR but now it isn''t. So you could also mike your cab up live. And like Cooper said, you always have to put your sound into the hands of your soundguy/gal. Make sure you get a good one! :-)
Usually the sound guy loves it when he has to fo the least. They're more worried about drums and other stuff.
Hey Cooper, hoping u can help. There was a video either by u or Leon which shows how to setup for tube amp as monitor while still using foh connection. Fm edit from what I remember had the basic preset with out1. However that same chain branched out to separate row from input to an external amp with no out,essentially amp is stage volume. Can u direct me to link or confirm that setup?
So, is this what you do now Cooper? Or do you still use IR's??
“Amp in the room” is guff
Cooper, do you prefer to make your low and high cuts in the speaker section or in the preamp tab of the speaker section?
How about different eq options to simulate greenback vs v30 etc….anyone try that.
These damn things can seemingly do everything, whether you want it to do it or not. I really do kind of miss the amp-in-the-room sound, and I can't do this with my current rig (at least not that easily). I am so mad that it took me so long to find Fractal and didn't get on that waitlist earlier. I really, really, really want the FM9 but it's getting really hard to wait and that chip shortage is killing me. If the rackmount + the FC6 were closer in price to the FM9 I'd have already gone that way. The FM3 is very tempting, but I really think I'll regret not waiting for the FM9.
In the mean time, I'm just going to sit here with my (now, very old) ElevenRack and sulk.
FM3 resale is essentially full retail price. Buy one. When you get the FM9, sell the FM3.
Hi Cooper help me out pls. I have a Fractal FM9. I’ve dialed in and tweaked my tones using a headset. They sound heavenly in the headset. But when I played live, the Drive and Distortion tone sounded plasticky crackling trash in FOH/PA. Too much Treble and Glassy Piercing Highs. when connected to FOH. I bought my own PA and when I connected it to PA it sounded the same harsh highs, no character, nothing like what I tweaked when Im using a headset. How do I make my headset tones tweaked in my home, sound as awesome live via FOH?
FOH: JBL PRX812 12inch, Yamaha DXR12
Headset: Bose Quiet Comfort 35
Frequencies will sound different to the human ear at different volumes/decibel levels so if you want to set up tones for live shows set them up with the PA *loud* at gig volumes or as close as you can.
Also Bose are not flat/reference headphones. Studio headphones from Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic will be much closer in sound to studio monitors and PA systems.
What happens if you keep the CAB in with the filter + eq? Or is that a silly question? (I just ordered an FM3...)
He is keeping the cab block in the signal chain together with the filter and EQ blocks added. Eliminating the cab block will sound harsh and terrible as he demonstrated.
@@SteveKuhMusic it looks greyed out though? I’m new to Fractal and thought it was unselected
@@zwip778 Yeah, there's a lot to digest. You always want a Cab block in your presets. :-)
@@SteveKuhMusic thank you 🙏 Steve
@@SteveKuhMusic I’m with you; I was thinking it sounded great, but a volume cut helped. My thinking is to hook up output two like this and then output 1 with cab. Hook up stereo pa and a mono amp on stage and really gave some fun.
Incredible awesome tip
Cool idea. However not sure the sound is for me 🤔
Has anyone tried this on a line 6 helix?
doesn't really work for me. I get good results with mixing 2 ultra res irs and altering proximity of one to 1.5 and 1.1 of the other. i use bb55 irs. sounds great.
Or you could use one of the original non microphoned IRs from Legacy series, like V30 cab. On the II you added the mic choice, they were not baked in as all newer ones are.
And then add a room IR to further enhance.
I'll have to dig into theses more because I do not like, at all, the speakers colored with the mic. Chicken or the egg... how do you capture the sound of a speaker without a mic...
So that's the reason I prefer the legacy cabs in my FM3
When I think "amp in the room", I think of a cab behind me, 3 or 4 feet below my ears, and all of the associated room reflections. Why I'd ever want that sound in a modeler (live or recorded) is beyond me, given that every single classic guitar tone that I've coveted has been from a recording of a mic'd up amp. The approach you describe and demonstrate, to me, sounds more like a cheap cab simulator than an "amp in the room".
What I dialed in here won't sound right on your speaker, especially if it's a phone or laptop speaker. It's specific to what you're monitoring on. So load the preset and then crank it on your own FRFR system and adjust the EQ to taste.
@@coopercarter Fair enough. I'm listening through Adam A7's in my studio. But I suppose it'll sound different through some stage monitors.
@@karlhouseknecht try it with your Adams. I know guys who've had fun results with this method through those. But overall, I'm with you: I love the sound of the fully modelled signal chain in a great IR. This isn't for everyone.
This demo to me is more for a live cab sound more or less and not “amp in the room”. I play live with a 2x12 cab and have to disable the cab block on my FM9. What Cooper dials in here is kinda what I have to do live, I can’t use an IR into a real cab cuz that just sounds way off so I EQ after my amp to get the best out my speakers. 🤘🏼✌🏼
@@coopercarter I’m my bedroom, through my EV monitors, it sounds very much worth doing/trying. Thanks for the info. 🤘🏼
I’m interested in how it sounds at my next gig…..
This is not the only way you can achieve this kinda an "effect"! Recorded IR's have a greater resolution, which means that the spikes of EQ curve are pretty "sharp", which means that at some point we have on 1530hz=+4db, and on 1536hz=-2db, and 1550hz=+6db, etc... This kinda jumps in volume in such small sections of frequency is not natural to our ears. This is how microphones "hear" things, and it's a lot more different than our ears! Our ears are far more sophisticated tools, but they are not created for this kind of resolution! This is the reason why the majority of IR's sounds a little bit weird to me... In CabLab 3 you have a knob called SMOOTHING that actually flattens these spikes to have more natural EQ slopes and therefore, the amp in a room sound, which will preserve the actual "feel" -> eq curve of the cabinet itself, thus you won't be needing EQ after... try it.... :)
but you would have the color of the mic anyways, the cooper trick lets you with thea real sound of the speakers and cab of the FRFR that you have (works great in my 212 FRFR)
@@richo144 Yeah, men, I know... :) I don't have a problem with this approach at all! I was simply trying to provide an alternate approach on how to achieve Amp in the room sound that worked well for me... :)
This is priceless
Hmmm. Seems like you're just creating a custom cabinet, not recreating room effects.
I like
Not a fan of this trick because it’s no different sounding than your typical “emulated cab” option a lot of amps use. There’s simply too many spikes and dips in a real speaker’s eq as well as the influence of the cabinet itself for this type of thing to really represent accurately. It’s best to just accept it and use frfr as what it is. if one is dead set on needing a real cab sound, use a real cab and a power amp.
I’m not understanding what psychopath would want this. It’s no not better to me than starting with a great IR and working with the room settings on the cab block.
I hate the "amp in the room" debate. Id rather have a Fractal with great tone than a Line 6 Spyder "in the room."
Fletcher Munson at work here. Your filter/eq patch was much louder than the IR cab so of course it sounded better. Shame on you.