On Female Priests & Deacons
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2023
- Excerpted from "Cacodoxy Within: 10 Heretical & Innovative Ideas Promoted Today" by Fr. Peter Heers
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Read "A Public Statement on Orthodox Deaconesses by Concerned Clergy and Laity [UPDATED: 56 signatories]":
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Buy "The Disappearing Deaconess" by Fr. Dcn. Brian Patrick Mitchell, PhD:
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Note: the quote in the video related to "The Disappearing Deaconess" is not a direct quote from Fr. Dcn. Brian Patrick Mitchell, PhD but rather a paraphrase.
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Развлечения
Lord have mercy. Hold fast to the traditions of the Orthodox Church.
what about the traditions of how people are baptized? that changed. what about the tradition of some books being in the bible then being removed? that changed. what about liturgies that's been changed ? looks like we are selective when it comes to what we hold as "tradition".
@@whereitreallycounts36I bet you're not even orthodox. It's scary how you activists infiltrate
I am very satisfied with being a girl and have always been so, thank God. My job as an old woman after almost eighty years is to pray for everyone and attend all the services.
Fr. Peter strikes yet again! ☦️👊🏻💥
May God give you strength to continue your work.
The Orthodox organization of IOTA is interested and invested in instating female clergy. We should keep a close eye on the hierarchs who align themselves with them... and they aren't a few.
Sadly sounds like the way of the Catholic Church...we are INFILTRATED
.. As well as the 'Orthodox Theological Society in America (OTSA)', they are first led by their passions and second by their president, and liberal feminist, Teva Regule, who has led many talks on bringing back female deaconate at IOTA endorsed events.
@@helmsdeep9tim great to know
the bottom line is, many are against female clergy because it "defy's tradition" but you need to ask yourself: what problem do you really have? you don't feel bad about baptism no longer being done naked. you don't advocate to return to method. so why is it such a problem for women to be in clergy? bc tradition ? if so, you know orthodox traditions have changed overtime, so why are you so upset and so resistant to this tradition being changed.
@@Romans1.24-27oh yes, why do you think some Catholics convert to Orthodoxy.
More worldly things creeping in. Women absolutely are important for the Church and there’s been many great women saints. The most Holy Theotokos! A saint above all others. We should respect and honor women while still keeping a steady hand on tradition.
translation: women are great! and we should honor women while still keeping women where they belong: under men :)
Yep, that's what I read as well. It's too bad these Christians don't understand that contempt of women in the form of male supremacy is a symptom of the fallen world, and not by God's design. Jesus is not impressed by these people who keep their foot on women's necks. @@whereitreallycounts36
Its almost like they completely forget about 1 Timothy 2:10-14.
St Paul already addressed this.
Every "church" that allowed for female clergy has also disregarded biblical and Church Teachings.
You actually made me laugh when you said do we have saints that said let's consider we change what's been done for 2,000 years 😂😂😂. Orthodoxy truly is perfection in the image of Christ
I am deeply grateful for the attention drawn here to my book The Disappearing Deaconess. I do wish to point out, however, that the first quotation in this video is not mine; it is, instead, a paraphrase of my words in the the book and elsewhere. I believe the paraphrase originated with Subdeacon Nectarios Harrison.
Thank you, Father, for your contribution! I haven't read it yet, but it is on my list to purchase at Jordanville when I'm there next.
They may not have it at Jordanville. They didn't the last time I was there. Amazon is your best bet.@@olgathehandmaid
Forgive us, Father Deacon! A note of clarification has been made in the video description.
I’m also enjoying your book Origins Revenge quite a bit, Father Deacon - 100 pages in.
Just another approach to incrementally dilute the Christian Orthodox faith, which in turn will open the door to other dilutions until the Christian Orthodox faith will be one in name only.
This is so sad that this is happening. May tradition prevail in the name of Jesus ☦️
ANOTHER QUALITY VIDEO.
"They covet the rank, honor, and authority of the clergy." But do they covet the responsibility and the accountability before God, I wonder? Many saints and elders have spoken of the priesthood with fear and trembling. It's not just a nice community leadership position!
This is simply an affront to God’s divine order. Everything instituted by the Father is a mirror of Christ and his Beloved. This is…not of God.
I don't know what type a woman should be to even want this, but she has to be gravely misled. Lord have mercy on misled souls and bring them to Your light!
Yes, a woman who ants to serve God and help others is "gravely misled" but a man who does it is holy. Makes sense.
She would be gravely misled to go against 2000 years of holy tradition.
NO way) I became an orthodox because of their love and faith and traditions. I refuse to listen to a women priest! Or deacon
you became orthodox because it align with your views: lgbt people not allowed/ talked about and women under men. if you cared about the truth, it would't matter who it's coming from.
Sounds like you just refuse to listen to women, period. I feel bad for you. May God help you.
@@venus_envythe first time man listened to women, mankind was cast out of paradise
IOTA Posted a video on 22SEP23 to youtube (with comments bravely turned off) in support of a lady, Teva Regule, who presented to that Orthodox association, saying she saw a painting once that had a female looking deaconess. She spoke for 24 minutes pleading her woke progressive case for overturning Church Tradition to satisfy her own political and emotional needs. Also note this woman consumed by Pride is the president of the 'Orthodox Theological Society in America (OTSA)', stay away from these subverters of our Faith
She misrepresents history & is Very consumed by this topic to the point of having a veil over her eyes.
Can you please post the video link of the Axion Estin here in the comments?
Please pray for me Father,
I have elected to build my hut in the desert instead of moving closer to the Oasis.
I am no longer alone in my home county and we may be starting a Mission under ROCOR within the next year or so.
Please Pray for Raphael.
The upcoming end of the R.C. Synod on synodality (2024) will be something to behold. What fruit will it bear?
Rotten.. I'm Catholic, btw.. persecuted Traditional Catholic
@Romans1.24-27 you have my sympathies. Traditional Latin rites are beautiful. A shame they're being phased out.
Sincerely, the worst Mormon.
God bless you brother! Stay strong@@Romans1.24-27
Canon 19 of Nicea: ...we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity.
Dear Father -- lately been seeing the phrase "according to the holy fathers and mothers" popping up in various Orthodox publications. Can't recall ever seeing it in patristic literature. Is "holy fathers and mothers" a sign of the times, or is my radar too sensitive?
@@ljss6805 Do Orthodox seminaries teach Matristics?
@@ljss6805 Why "sadly'? Could it be the Church has her reasons?
@@ljss6805 Patristics simply means Fathers. Not an alien term. As to your question, maybe I am mistaken, but 1 Timothy 2:12 seems pretty clear.
@@ljss6805 Correcting Scripture, I see. OK. Bye.
Was that photo taken by a ULEZ camera?
1. Timothy 2,12 (NKJV): And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
1. Corinthians 14,34-35 (NKJV): 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
Most evangelicals became soft and allow women to preach and lead within the church. Such a shame how God's holy order is neglected. Orthodoxy is the last frontier against this wicked feminism nowadays. Brethren, stay strong and faithful to God's commandments!
wow, i thought priests sexuallly assualting people were wicked but ig a movement allowing women to have the freedom of choice is on the same level.... wow
The first ecumenical council used didascalia as a template and replaced the word deaconess with καλόγρια in the corresponding section with the same requirements, widows and virgins age 40. Literally, female monastics subsumed the role of female servants (deaconesses) and never had parochial liturgical roles equivalent to ordained deacons who MUST be eligible in all manners and impediments to become priests. Nuns can carry the Eucharist to women, and distribute it in the monastery and even go into the altar area to assist a priest, but would never wear the vestments of a deacon signifying an order of priesthood and eligibility to become a priest. This is on a Schismatic level.
Greetings from Paul…
Welcome to the nwo
This is a direct opposition to the apostolic epistle: 1 Tim, chapter 2
So what is going on in the Orthodox Church now that African women have been ordained deacons? I saw the video and they are fully vested as deacons and giving Holy Communion to the people from the holy Chalice using the spoon during the Divine Liturgy!
Misunderstanding and ignorance of our Tradition is not an excuse for innovation that mimic's the outside world 🙏☦️♥️
St Macrina pray for us.
Even as in inquirer, like seeing pews in an Orthodox Church, deaconesses would appear out of place.
So EO in Africa has a deaconess i just found out thru a Michael Lofton video. Weird how ortho bros always come at Catholics as being more based and never changing traditions, but when some scandal in the OE takes place, like gay couples wedding, becoming godparents or something that was recently legalized in Greece i think, or female deacon, they never say nor make videos about that. But when the pope does anything that can be misinterpreted ot ambigous sounding, the slanders and libels start flying.
Michael Lofton said deaconess were female deacons? Can Fr Peter Heers address it?
ECUMENISMODERNISMASONRY
there are misguided people who think we don't have a freemason problem.
Sister Bruce says 'what's the problem?'
i mean in Romans Paul talks about a woman named Phoebe who was a deaconess.
Deaconesses were NOT as Deacons, i.e. with Liturgical roles, or leadership roles (like a priest). They assisted with woman at baptisms, communing them in their homes, etc. THIS is not what they want today. . .
@@OrthodoxEthos ah ok i see what your saying. i was just reading Romans 1-16 on the "Daily Readings" app and got confused when i saw this video. thank you for the clarification god bless
@@OrthodoxEthos who is “they”?
Deaconesses. @@ORTHODOXWOMENMINISTRY
☦️☦️☦️
There is an Orthodox deaconess at an Orthodox mission in Sierra Leone, Africa. She works alongside Father Themi Adamopoulos.
Innovation (heresy). Or there could be a sound reason in a special case out of need in a critical situation.
There are no other options.
There are Orthodox deaconesses everywhere especially in Egypt and other parts of Africa, we just don’t boast about it like the anglicans and for us a deaconess is its own order that doesn’t lead to priesthood. I’m writing a paper about this, Peter heers actually has only covered Anglican argument and not looked at our own history and own theologians like Metropolitan Ware and fr Hopko. Not many people are going to agree with me because heers is iolised but he isn’t above our Church and the two fathers I just quoted.
That's an economia and she isn't ordained. None are or were ordained.
@@ORTHODOXWOMENMINISTRYthe church is above all and there is no holy tradition of deaconess by the whole church, the authority. One off examples are not holy tradition of the church.
Deaconess Mary Adams sister of bishop Themi ordained by patriarch of Alexandria in Nov 2018, patriarch RESTORED this ancient order in 2016, deaconess Mary Adams is AXIA. You dare to question this, then you questions holy hierarchy and holy synod. This is no innovation its restoration, deaconess ordination is different to deacon but nonetheless recognised and according to holy apostolic tradition.
Should only be one blood in and around the Altar. That is His Blood!!!
I have a question regarding this subject, and i am not willing to speak against what is said. I always wonder about the after life and "the privilege" that all clergy have for serving God this way that women won't have. It starts from the simple prayer corner, when i look at it and i am a woman, i only see the Virgin Mary and Saint Helen for example and i see myself speaking to (Holy) men... There are many great women saints like Saint Thekla, Barbara, Catherine etc.. but they are very few. Clergy have open doors in many ways.. 🤷♀️
Do you have some answers for me?
In Orthodox Christianity there are a lot of female saints. Also the most Holy Virgin Theotokos (mother of Christ) is above all men and women saints. Keep in mind many martyr and saint names are lost in history and we will probably never know them and many of them would have been women. But for a better answer than mine , you can ask an orthodox priest. He will surely answer your questions. I hope I helped you !
I don't understand very well your question and concern, my bad. Btw as a Catholic (Roman) I can say that according to our doctrine there is no specific privilege for clergy in the afterlife , sainthood comes in all life areas and we have many women saints who weren't nuns or became nuns later in life ...edit if I misunderstood your concern, I apologize!
@miawa I am not a teacher or anything but I’m not sure your looking at it correctly. Jesus says this when his apostles asked him a question.
Mat 18:1 At that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Who, thinkest thou, is the greater in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus, calling unto him a little child, set him in the midst of them.
Mat 18:3 And said: amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greater in the kingdom of heaven.
Now I know you didn’t ask about who is greater but privilege clergy have that women don’t so maybe I’m misunderstanding you. We all have our roles to fulfill and will be accountable for. If the clergy do have more privilege, or seem to have, it is not for them but for Christ’s body, the church. Women have a very great blessing to be under God’s covering. He gives men that responsibility. Is that really a privilege or a curse as we are held to a higher judgement for it. ( the curse part is said in light humor ) In the meantime, you stay close to Jesus, serve His people, fulfill the role in life He has created you for, and He will reward you with all the privilege you may desire. But in my heart I believe if we ever get to that point, we will cast our privileges aside, fall at His feet and worship, and just desire to serve one another.
These are just my thoughts. It’s always best to talk to your Priest about some matters if you have a real struggle with something. When I get a tad boggled with things I don’t understand, I find reading Scriptures just brings a peace and most things I may not understand at the moment just don’t matter as much.
May He who began a good work in you bring it to completion at the day of Christ Jesus.
We serve God and ask for nothing in return. The highest role for women is care of the family. Husband, children (if there are children), but also the church family- as a participant. We serve through many volunteer roles. Priests have a job to do but the acquisition of holiness through the divine mysteries is available to all equally. Just being a priest does not give one more access to salvation. It’s the opposite- more is expected of them. We have some apostate clergy & laity in all jurisdictions. And we have pious devout ones also. The motivation of some promoting liberal ideas is funding by liberal organizations like the Luces Trust.
@@elleanna5869Our Vladyka spoke on that yesterday. Clergy will have no special treatment in the hereafter, instead they will have it harder since they had souls under their care.
if this isn't an innovation, then I don't see why launching a 21st century crusade would be a problem.
...perhaps I'm on to something 🤔
It is an innovation. The deaconesses of the olden times were a MUCH different position than what the innovationists want.
Back in history. Women were not allowed to be alone with a man unless it was family/husband. So the deaconess was to serve to these women. Also in the older times baptism was done with the newly illumened was in the nude. And thus the deaconess helped the woman so that the man would not lay hands on a n@ked woman.
It was not apart of official clergy nor was it a position of authority. It was merely a helper role to assist women. The position is no longer required in the west. And the current desire for deaconesses is to make female clergy. To put women in positions not made for them. To usurp the Church to the whims of the world. Not to return to ancient practices.
Priestesses* Deaconesses*
Sorry for being uncharitable, but it begs the question - why does it seem as if most of the types of women who are seeking to expand their power beyond sanctioned norms invariably so unattractive? 😢
And also seem to look like lesbians.😂
The position of deaconess was not an sacramentally, ordained position.
Usually, you'd find a female priest in a coven.
The Roman Catholic Church does not endorse female priest or deaconess, anyone who has gone against this decree has either gone unrecognized. Or have evaded authoritative punishment of the Roman pontiff.
Priestesses.
They should be raising children and cooking dinner.
C'mon now. This is only about female priests and deaconesses which I don't advocate for. No need for that.
@@andys3035 no need for what? What should they be doing?
@@MFG333 no need to say they should be in the kitchen and raising children. Nothing wrong with that but your comment sounded like it was disparaging women.
@@andys3035 We can disagree with the things women do without demeaning them. There is no higher calling, or more difficult job, for any woman than being a wife and mother. It is why God created them. Women's lib and feminism are illusory constructs that have destroyed the family structure and brought about the decline of Western civilization. The liberal left can't even agree on a definition of what a woman is. This is because they objectify them as a "what" rather than respecting them as a "who". Women must be restored in their proper roles and that can't be done without love and respect from men. But sometimes that love must be "tough" and requires a firm NO.
@@andys3035 what about sustaining and nurturing a family is disparaging to women?
Deaconess Mary Adams Nov 2018
No.
Ok so let’s say women become deacons. At what point do they start clamoring to be priests? Let’s face it that’s what would happen. It’s incrementalism plain and simple!
I mostly agree with you... but I disagree with you on the female deaconesses. The church had deaconesses for the first millennium, so following holy tradition requires us to bring back deaconesses.
But no female priestesses obviously. That violates scripture
They were not ordained and had no liturgical role..
History is not tradition. Tradition is from paradosis- it means delivered, handed over, handed down. Deaconess was not handed down. It is not Holy Tradition. It’s just a small part of history.
They were ordained. @@LadyMaria
@@venus_envy Nope. Goodnight.
@@ljss6805 the role was for celibate women- young virgins or widows of 1husband. Virgins died out. Then widows. Never married women. The job was to baptize adult women which was done naked. They oiled the whole body of the candidate before immersion. lInfant baptism led to the end of this need. Now the Godparent oils the infant as concelebrant w/ clergy. No ordination needed.
The other need was to visit women in their homes because rules of propriety & chastity prevented men from visiting. This culture of propriety also ended.
The other point is that church orders were to keep order in churches. Everyone had an assigned order except the church cat. Assigned places/ seats. Women were in a separate quarter and deaconesses cared for the women: bathroom & nursing needs.
You can see women’s quarters in the upper balcony of St Mark’s Venice.
There is no culture of propiety now. Most imperial orders no longer needed: deaconess, candle holder, doorkeeper, porter, etc. These are handled by the much larger laity today. Womens’ ministerial groups like Philoptochos do what deaconesses did: care fir widows, orphans, the sick, the poor. 40,000 members. Bigger than any order. It’s the life of the Church.
We don’t tell God how we want Him to answer a need, we identify a need and pray for His help. Any needs for which people wanted deaconesses years ago was answered by God in other ways through the vibrant life of the church.
Deaconesses were a part of the tradition of Eastern Orthodox Church until the fall of Constantinople. From a broader context, deaconesses are attested to in the New Testament and in early Church writings, and in the writings of the Church's persecutors. Deaconesses have had a prominent role in the Lutheran Church for 200 years. Female ministers have been a fact of life in Protestantism almost as long, although in small numbers until the 20th century. One of the first denominations to ordain women were the Congregationalists, the church of America's Pilgrim Fathers. For the last 100 years, mainstream Protestant churches have increasingly ordained women. And in the last 50 years, in Western countries, the Protestant ministry has become a female-dominated profession. I'm a middle-aged, male Lutheran minister, raised in my church, confirmed, educated, and mentored through seminary and internship by... deaconesses and female Lutheran and Reformed ministers. In churches in your community just outside the doorstep of your church, deaconesses and women's ordination and consecration to the diaconate is totally uncontroversial and non-innovative. Meanwhile, the bishop of my synod (like a diocese) the bishop of the other synod, in my state and our national presiding bishop are women. The president of my seminary, the head of the seminary chapel (and its worship life) my professors of Homiletics, Old Testament and New Testament were all women. And I didn't graduate recently. We are talking about mainstream Protestantism here, the state churches in most of northern Europe and their sister church bodies in North America, for example, not something new-fangled and outré or made-for-television. These decisions came about through constructive discussion and consensus by faithful Christians with the guidance of learned theologians and in light of the Scriptures and church tradition dating to the Apostles, not on a whim. And since then, generations have been nurtured spiritually in the Church through the work of deaconesses and female ministers. What is needed is a change in perspective. I greatly respect the Orthodox church and my Orthodox Christian colleagues and brothers and sisters. I hope they share this love and respect. This is a difference that we as Christians in North America and in our communities are going to have to learn to live with. Just because my church is Estonian and yours is Russian, or my church is Slovak and yours is Serbian, doesn't mean one is bad and wrong. It just means they are a little different. We have to hold fast to our faith, against all odds. But we also have to live as Christians in a pluralistic society and in diverse communities. It's a fact of modern life in America, and so are faithful, dedicated, well-trained women minsters and deaconesses.
"Priestesses" are found in pagan cults only.
Thank you for the analysis, Fr. But, I was surprised and disappointed by your willingness in conclusion to entertain the question at all, especially made more unpalatable that you would consider it in response to a common consensus.
While it is true that women can't be priests there is nothing against a woman becoming a deacon and is actually supported historically and traditionally. It should be something we welcome full heartedly, as there are many women that receive the calling but the only thing available to them is monasticism.
St Nektarios is a saint of our time who ordained females into the diakonate, and our Church still ordains women into deaconesses, the nuns! And yes we have saints who were deaconesses like st phoebe and st olympiada to name a few. fr Thomas Hopko composed a book of essays from various theology educated doctors including metropolitan kallistos ware who support the deaconess ordination. sVS press women and the priesthood. I don’t think Peter heers has spent enough time researching, we also have canons in the church that describe deaconess role. In 1978 there was a huge meeting about this and patriarch bartholomew has spoken about restoring deaconess role. What we do differentiate in our Orthodox Church is that deaconess is an order on its own and does not lead to priesthood. So before anyone gets defensive, a deaconess is not a stepping stone to priesthood. I highly recommend women and the priesthood by Dr Thomas Hopko. Very Incredible this is not mentioned.
Except the people advocating for the deaconess role are not looking to return to tradition. They are looking to make way for the woman priestesses and changing Orthodoxy in order to become more a part of the World.
The deaconess role has no function in the West.
So unless we want to start forbidding men from being alone with women(unless family/husband)
And start baptisms in the buff again. There is no need.
It goes without saying that nuns have a special role. Because there are no men, except for the priest, who are at women's monasteries.
Fr Peter Heers is talking about the modernists trying to change the Orthodox way. Which is what most of these advocates talk about. Changing with the times. Fordham and other organizations speak very clearly about what their goals are.
Diaconessa is the woman who helped at the baptisms(which were performed naked in the ancient times),she also helped at the catechisms and the paraklesis of widows.Diaconessa is NOT the first stage of priesthood.Diaconessa comes from the word διακονώ, which means help someone out and serve him.Women CANNOT be priests because God,in His Church gave the authority to MEN.
No women were or are ordained. That's a misunderstanding of the Faith right there. They served no liturgical role. Please stop trying to ruin the Orthodox Faith. Go to the Episcopalian community.
I agree with you. Women should be included in liturgical life as they are in the women’s monasteries. Jesus’ first apostle who brought new people to his movement- St Photini. Resurrected Jesus fist appears to St Mary Magdalene. Jesus’ first miracle at the request of the Virgin Mary. The men squeezed the women out because that’s what men do, all over the world, throughout history. They love power more then women do. Just because something is an old tradition doesn’t mean it’s right. Restore women to the diaconate.
@@soleilbrigham3075
How bout no. We already see what women do once they have power in the Church. They allow for abominations.
Women have a proper place. Men have theirs. Get your feminist Lilith worshipping ideology OUT of the Church.