We got a NEW bed with wheels and it's a TC Teardrop

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  • Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 121

  • @KUEHLKUEST
    @KUEHLKUEST 3 года назад +2

    First off...LOVE LOVE the step...nice touch! Very well thought out layout...looking forward to seeing y'all hitting the trails! Cheers C&J

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      The step is an awesome touch by the TC Family. Our paths will certainly cross soon! Stay safe out there.

  • @AlexJohnson-rc2xx
    @AlexJohnson-rc2xx 3 года назад +4

    Would love to see the awning you talked about and how it attaches! Maybe you could include that in a future video and show how you set it up? Excited to pick ours up in November!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      We will definitely show the entire setup! Thank for the request. Stay tuned!

    • @bubbascoutdog
      @bubbascoutdog 3 года назад +1

      I’d like to see that being set up and used during bad weather too. VERY informative videos, thanx!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      Definitely on my list to do. I have had plenty of footage now of us setting up and taking down, but need to find a way to make it interesting to watch😉

  • @brendapams3413
    @brendapams3413 3 года назад +1

    Love your set up. I’m on the TC build list for May 2022, it can’t get here soon enough. I did a lot of research and found TC to be best quality and price. Todd and Carol have been so nice. My husband and I visit in August to finalize. Can’t wait to see your family’s adventures.
    Also, would love to see the whole set up at camp with awning and outdoor room.
    Thanks for sharing. Happy trails.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      So far we love our TC! Todd and Carol are amazing. As your following along or if something comes to mind that your curious about, let us know. We will definitely show a video of everything all set up - that’s great feedback. We will add it to our list!

  • @sandyrempel746
    @sandyrempel746 3 года назад

    Can’t wait to get mine!!! Delivery is January 2022! Thanks for the walk-around!!!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      You are welcome. Let us know if you want to see anything else about the TC.

  • @balauderman
    @balauderman 3 года назад

    Love to see the personal touches, just received mine last month

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      We love ours! Where was your first adventure?

  • @Joseph-du1cp
    @Joseph-du1cp 7 месяцев назад +1

    I can't believe I only just found this video! I wish I had watched it before I bought my trailer (I went with Bend Teardrop) also I ended up installing the same brand bed rail on our bunk bed for our infant to come camping with us. We went with a Regalo XL for our bunk, which gives us full coverage of the bunk side to side since our little one is less than a year old.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  7 месяцев назад +1

      Well I am glad you found our channel and our quick review of our TC useful. Bend is a great trailer and will certainly get you and your family outdoors with ease. We didn't start camping as a family until our youngest was 2 years olds, so props to you taking your infant out in the great outdoors.
      What are your overall thoughts on the Bend? What are things you love and what are things you'd change?

    • @Joseph-du1cp
      @Joseph-du1cp 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@FreysOnTheSide Thanks for taking to time to respond! For our Bend Teardrop we like the lay out of the galley and love the sq. footage of the interior with a bunk - the extra space beyond the foot of the bed to store our bags or put our dog beds was a selling point for us and has worked out great.
      For the nit picky side - Bend still feels a bit DIY/homemade. You can tell all the parts are hand cut and the fit and finish leave a lot to be desired. For example - the silicone sealant is not automotive grade and it is already failing after less than a year. The construction method is overall not as refined as other offerings including TC, VTW, Camp-Inn, etc. If I were to buy again, I probably would have also opt'd out of many of the add on items I purchased. The TC teardrop add ons seem more worthwhile. Lithium battery upgrade is only $400, just above cost and definitely worth it.

    • @piet1982
      @piet1982 6 месяцев назад

      @@Joseph-du1cphey! We’re considering the bend 6x12 teardrop for our family camper. Have definitely noticed the difference in finishing quality just by videos. But the amount of space seems unbeaten.
      Would love to hear more about the add ons you found (un)necessary. Would you mind sharing?

    • @Joseph-du1cp
      @Joseph-du1cp 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@piet1982 Hey man! Some of the upgrades are almost necessary because of the manner of construction they use and running wiring after the fact would be very difficult but the execution of the upgrades just left me frustrated. At least 1 cabin 12V option inside the trailer is very worth it to me. The shore power option however seemed unnecessary and the electrical wiring/fuse was done in a pretty darn dangerous and amateur manner. Pretty much everything felt very "Well that will do it" kind of construction, not professional or refined. These are not licensed electricians and it absolutely would never meet any kind of electrical code. (I used to do electrical work in a past life) If you are handy with tools and know your way around a basic electrical circuit this can be cheaper and better executed by yourself.
      The solar panel option is a decent value but again they used cheap components and frustrating execution. Instead of spending the $8 to use industry standard water tight connections they hard wired the connections and then used electrical tape as insulation on wires that are outside the trailer, sure it works, but eventually that will unravel and either corrode the connection or short out the panel. In addition this really limits your options - you will have to remove the panel and redo the connections to change panels or add panels in parallel or in series. I would instead have asked them if I could pay the 125$ to run wires to the junction box leave the rest for me to install my own components.
      Probably the most important upgrade to do yourself (because they are charging $1K for a smaller 80Ah battery) is to get a LiFEPO4 100ah battery. You can find quality batteries for less than $300 and wire it in yourself after removing the 35 Ah SLA battery that comes standard. Just be prepared to be frustrated by the battery compartment they built. You either have to remove the charger and the fuse if you got shore power or remove the sink in order to remove/replace the existing battery. On the other hand, if you are buying a TC teardrop it's only $400 for the Lithium upgrade- very much worth it to pay them to do it for you.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  6 месяцев назад +1

      @Joseph-du1cp and @piet1982 love seeing the respectful, honest and transparent dialog. It's great to see the community learn and discuss together.

  • @Venture2Roam
    @Venture2Roam 3 года назад

    What a great set up. Looking forward to seeing it in action!

  • @BrokenDreamsReborn
    @BrokenDreamsReborn 3 года назад

    Congratulations on your new teardrop! Looks nice! ~ Shion and Matthew

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Thank you. We love it. And thanks for watching on the YT. We will have tons more of content to follow.

  • @harolddenton6031
    @harolddenton6031 Год назад

    This is one cool looking loffloading tc tear drop trailer. I saw it on a tc trailer manufactiring tour video shot by Cosmo Weems RUclips channel.
    I like the idea of getting one built for myself with those big 35" off road all terrain type tires. I could easily pull it behind my 2023 Tacoma TRD off road model truck and go exploring the many remote areas within a 200 to 250 mile radius of northeast Tennessee. I live a mere hour drive from cherokee national forest and a 2 hour drive from borh smoky mountains and pisgha national forest over in western north carolina. This compact super lightweight trailer would be perfect to tow behind my Tacoma truck.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад

      Glad you were able to find our channel through Cosmo. He will definitely be missed in the small camper world.
      Our small camper has plenty of clearance, in fact way more than the Jeep. One of the leading drivers for our tire size selection, was to have matching tires and rims to our Jeep. This allows us to only bring one spare (the Jeep’s spare) and if we really got in a pickle we could abandon the trailer getting two more spares.
      We have a few more videos dedicated specifically to our TC, but largely our content revolves around our family (2 adults, 2 small Children) adventures with our Jeep and TC. Definitely check out a few more videos and if you like what you see drop a comment and subscribe as we have plenty more content to follow.

  • @ChanceP
    @ChanceP 3 года назад

    What a great setup and personal touches!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      We love it so. Probably not full time material, but is perfect for our weekend warrior adventures.

  • @jason_advntr_6755
    @jason_advntr_6755 3 года назад

    Nice TC Teardrop! Made us a little jellie today watching all the additional space you have in the galley and cabin over our 4x8 overland model. I look forward to keeping on the adventures you have with it. Maybe we should look for a neutral location in the middle of the country for a TC meet-up on of these days.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      We love the the space and very happy with the layout.
      Let’s definitely set up a TC meet up!

  • @Tail_Dragger
    @Tail_Dragger 3 года назад

    What a cool rig! I’m looking forward to exploring your channel for more awesome content !

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Well thanks for checking out our channel. If you like family adventure videos, check out our trip out west series. Let us know your thoughts. Let us know if it’s your cup of tea.

  • @NHydeWI
    @NHydeWI 3 года назад

    You can tell you're super excited. Congrats! We looked hard at getting one, they're great little campers.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      We have been teardropers for awhile now and love this new set up. Such a great use of space. You should definitely consider getting on the waiting list.

    • @NHydeWI
      @NHydeWI 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide We already bought a different one, 'Luna Rover' from inTech. We pair it with our iKamper and it works perfect for us.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      That is awesome. We will definitely check it out. It’s really cool on all the solutions out there. What’s the best feature on your set up?

    • @NHydeWI
      @NHydeWI 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide the Luna has heat, AC, TV, Sink, Stove and indoor seating all into a (large) teardrop size.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      Wow! You got me beat! That sound amazing.

  • @BirdDogOffRoadAdventures
    @BirdDogOffRoadAdventures 3 года назад

    Would love to have one of those. Maybe in a few years after we buy a house and have somewhere to store it. Great video!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Well aren’t you responsible 😉. We love the teardrop life and works great with our life style. What’s the next adventure planned in your Overland Rig?

    • @BirdDogOffRoadAdventures
      @BirdDogOffRoadAdventures 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide sand dunes in MI and Ouray in August and of course KOAR in September

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      That sounds like an amazing summer. Can’t wait to see photos and hear about the travels at KOAR!

  • @AllThingsOverlanding
    @AllThingsOverlanding 3 года назад

    That thing is sweet! Love the color!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      The color was selected in honor of ATO. 😉

    • @AllThingsOverlanding
      @AllThingsOverlanding 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide Haha! Said in my best Will Ferrell Anchorman voice: I don’t believe you.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      …hilarious!

  • @NorthologyAdventures
    @NorthologyAdventures 3 года назад

    Very nice! Happy for you guys!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Thank you! We are very excited for the next chapter of adventures. Todd and Carol are amazing and we love having one of their trailers.

  • @steveandjosh526
    @steveandjosh526 3 года назад

    Looking forward to ours in hopefully about 6 months.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      It’s worth the wait and it will go fast! What size and options did you go with?

    • @steveandjosh526
      @steveandjosh526 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide Overland. 5x10. Almost every option. Sure didn't leave many boxes unchecked.
      I'll be looking for you. We live 2 hours east of you along the lake. Looking at March, but with more staff, additions of more CNC, a new GM to keep things flowing and the frames being made in-house, I'm hoping Todd can crank out 3-4 more a month. with efficiencies.

    • @steveandjosh526
      @steveandjosh526 2 года назад +1

      @@FreysOnTheSide Was out your way at our son's wedding at the Jefferson. Stopped by TC and finalized our build. 5x10 ORE. Got the new dual door window fans, side steps like yours. So much more. Two page build. Bryn was also at the wedding and we hung out for quite a while. He's a great fit for the TC Family and a super nice guy. Looks like we will have it at the end of January. First trip a week after.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  2 года назад

      @@steveandjosh526 awesome news on the build! We love our 5x10 ORE. The door fans appear to be a pretty awesome upgrade, might have to pick up a set from Todd. The entire team at TC is class act.
      Best of luck on your first camping trip. Looking forward to hearing about the first adventure.

  • @jamesmerritt4032
    @jamesmerritt4032 3 года назад

    I found the TC to be the best bang for your buck

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      TC provides a great product for a good value. We have been very happy with our purchase.

  • @11ccom
    @11ccom 2 года назад

    Good stuff..

  • @TerrenceLCarpenter
    @TerrenceLCarpenter Месяц назад

    Now I want one. Am looking at the adventure edition, what options did you get?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Месяц назад +1

      Good questions and honestly has changed a bit with the current offerings. I think the AE model is very solid and frankly there are a few options we requested on our build that are incorporated in the AE build. If I were going to buy another one, I would pick the following options.
      AE model.
      Blackout - personal preference.
      Roof rack or platform, depending on what you envision you might carry, but defiantly on of them to support an awning.
      60" Tool box.
      Extension, if you want to haul your bikes or have additional storage. I am not sure I would have it, but I know its good for a lot of people.
      Ploy
      Mattress
      Reading Lights
      Battery Plus Package. At minimum include solar charging.
      Plug in Galley for 12v Fridge
      270 Awning
      Dometic Fridge
      Water
      Propane
      And if you do put in an order, be sure to tell them Frey's On The Side sent you. They will take good care of you.

    • @TerrenceLCarpenter
      @TerrenceLCarpenter Месяц назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide Thanks.

  • @vansickle13
    @vansickle13 7 месяцев назад

    You mentioned how much you liked the mattress, do you have a link to the one you use?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  7 месяцев назад +1

      We love the mattress in the teardrop. Still one of our favorite places to sleep. The mattress is provided by the manufacture TC Teardrops. They are custom mattresses, so I bet if you reached out to TC they would be able to hook you up.

  • @balauderman
    @balauderman 3 года назад +1

    Why did you move from the T@G to the TCT? I had always thought they were solid trailers

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +2

      Great question and certainly not a short answer. We love our T@G and had many features and memories.
      There several reasons we switched to TC and I have good intentions to pull together a video, but to name a few Todd and Carol are awesome, bunk system, smaller, but more space and general more capable off-road.

  • @chetray5065
    @chetray5065 2 года назад

    Love this TEAR Drop. Was there 12v outlets near the head for CPAP Machine use. What was the cost of your unit ?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  2 года назад +1

      Thank you. We love our TC Teardrop. The 12v plugs can be used how you see fit. We have used it for our phones, fans in the summer and diesel heater in the winter. We have taken the trailer many places already, so be sure to check out some of our other videos.
      As far as costing, I would recommend you visit www.TCTeardrops.com. They have a very nice website, in which you can build on line and shows the pricing as you go. Not sure what your price point you are at, but TC provides a very economical and high quality teardrop.
      Be sure you tell them the Frey’s sent you, they will take great care of you.

    • @chetray5065
      @chetray5065 2 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide Thank you so much for getting back so quickly. I appreciate the info and I enjoy your videos. Will check price calculator as you suggest. Thanks again.
      Chet

  • @kevinbrennan5736
    @kevinbrennan5736 3 года назад

    We have a build scheduled for next year, should be delivered in April. Share any tips and tricks you have, or suggestions for the build. I am not all that handy, so am inclined to chose just about every option!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      We will definitely share tips and trick along the way! If you see something along the way you like, be sure to talk with Todd or their new GM Bryn. They will walk you through the options.

    • @kevinbrennan5736
      @kevinbrennan5736 3 года назад +1

      @@FreysOnTheSide We went to Wausau and met Todd and Carol. They were great and are so responsive!! I had the build all set in my mind, then changed a lot! Thanks!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      So much fun! Stay in touch. We got your email as well, so keep you posted on all thing TC!

  • @terriporter1083
    @terriporter1083 Год назад

    Zipper screen for doors? Where to buy or how to make?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад +1

      Contact TC Teardrops. They are custom made and always a gamble if they have them in stock.

  • @ScoobyFermentation
    @ScoobyFermentation Год назад

    A 5x10 trailer with no countertop space in the Galley?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад +1

      Ultimately it is all about what your needs are in a trailer. We found that our previous trailer lacked storage and the built in counter space was covered with everything, leaving no space for prep. We love our two counter tops off the back. It creates a U shape for the person prepping and cooking and also allows people to assist from the other side. Our kids often help with dinner by standing on the opposite side. On the right side, the cabinet flips down and makes a bit of a shelf, for those quick sandwiches or lunch on the road. Again, it’s all about how you choose to camp and enjoy the outdoors. For us, we love our TC and going on our third summer with it.

  • @Michelle-oz1jc
    @Michelle-oz1jc Месяц назад

    Which size is this? Thanks for the tour

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Месяц назад +1

      5x10 ORE

    • @Michelle-oz1jc
      @Michelle-oz1jc Месяц назад

      Thanks- I met the owners today at overland East and am seriously considering one now. Thanks for the video

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Месяц назад

      Todd and Carol are amazing people. Their customer service is second to none, hands down. When you buy a TC you will find a great support family/community.

  • @RichValentine1972
    @RichValentine1972 Год назад

    I just saw a video with your TC at the factory before you picked it up?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад

      Depends on the age of the video you just watched. This will be our third summer with the TC. And our 5 season in a teardrop.

    • @RichValentine1972
      @RichValentine1972 Год назад

      It’s the one your running now.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад

      This will be our third year in the TC we have now.

    • @RichValentine1972
      @RichValentine1972 Год назад

      I’m thinking about having one built, not sure which one.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад +1

      Awesome, let me know if you have any initial questions. I will try to answer them the best I can. Otherwise, I'll get you in contact with the team at TC.

  • @erictaylor6611
    @erictaylor6611 3 года назад

    Where did you get the zippered bug net for the doors? Did they come with the camper or did you order them somewhere?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      The screens were an option provided by TC Teardrop. They do sell these direct, but I believe they were on back order. Visit www.TCTeardrops.com or give their shop a call. Tell the Frey’s On The Side sent you.

    • @erictaylor6611
      @erictaylor6611 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide thanks

  • @bubbascoutdog
    @bubbascoutdog 3 года назад

    1) Which model is this?
    2) 5x9 or 5 x10?
    3) With the bunks, do you lose any storage shelving/compartments on that side of the cabin?
    Thanx!

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +2

      It’s a 5x10 ORE model. There is no storage on the sides of the cabin, only at the head and foot. With the bunks, you no longer get storage at the foot. All that said, we have plenty of space for storage for small family of four and a Jeep Wrangler.

  • @theskroobs538
    @theskroobs538 3 года назад

    How long can you run the fridge with the included solar/battery?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад +1

      Good question! We haven’t tested that yet, but we certainly will. What I can tell you, we have been traveling for the 4 plus days and have not hooked up to shore power yet.

  • @LetsG0Champ
    @LetsG0Champ 2 года назад +1

    This the ore?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  2 года назад

      Yes, this is a 5x10 ORE. And we love it!
      Are you on the list for TC Teardrop or have one?

  • @frandrew1
    @frandrew1 Год назад

    What size/model did you get?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад

      We have a 5x10 ORE. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

  • @jkuoverland8507
    @jkuoverland8507 3 года назад

    Just looking at TC today. Is your bolt pattern the same as your Jeep, 5x5? Thanks

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Yes, we have matching tires and rims with our Jeep. We don’t carry a spare on the TC, since I can use the Jeep spare.
      Let me know if you have any other questions.

    • @metaxaanabeer
      @metaxaanabeer 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide Northern Vancouver Island checking in...we mostly do northern BC, Yukon and Northwest Territories but with travel restrictions we have spent a couple of years now really digging into our north Island. My vehicle and my Teardrop all have the same 16" wheel/tire combo and both have spares. Can't tell how much that matters when you point yourself down a long abandoned logging road. They sort of keep them up but, for instance, with blast rock not gravel. Haven't had to use the feature yet but as I say to my wife, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Well hello. Very cool you found us all the way from northern Vancouver. Have to ask, how to did you find us?
      Having matching rims and tires definitely provides peace of mind when the rig is pointed down the road of adventure.

    • @metaxaanabeer
      @metaxaanabeer 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide Even further out than Vancouver (city) we are on Vancouver Island (ferry ride from the mainland). Found you because I was poking around RUclips Teardrop vids and yours popped into my mentions. Or whatever they are called.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Wow! Really cool. We love to visit that area! Thanks for jumping on our channel. Hope you like our content. We love sharing our story to those willing to watch. What type of trailer do you have?

  • @theskroobs538
    @theskroobs538 3 года назад

    Is that the TCT Roof Rack or the TCT Platform Rack?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      We have a TCT Platform and so far we love it. Do you have a TC or in the que to get one?

    • @theskroobs538
      @theskroobs538 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide Thanks for the reply. In the queue to get one, coming up really soon actually.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      That’s awesome! When are you expecting delivery? Are you in the Wisconsin area?

    • @theskroobs538
      @theskroobs538 3 года назад

      @@FreysOnTheSide should be this month actually. Yes we are in SE WI.

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  3 года назад

      Sweet. Let us know if you have any other questions. We are going to see about setting up a Wisconsin TC meet up on the Facebook Owners Group. Shooting for a fall time frame.

  • @brianl8043
    @brianl8043 Год назад

    What size is it 5 x10.
    ?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  Год назад

      Can you elaborate on what dimensions you are looking for? Inside sleeping area, overall etc?

  • @pnowikow
    @pnowikow 2 года назад

    Is that the 5x9 or the 5x10?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  2 года назад

      5x10. It’s a great size and handles the trails well.

  • @LetsG0Champ
    @LetsG0Champ 2 года назад

    Do you know if TC has a front storage box to add another slideout fridge?

    • @FreysOnTheSide
      @FreysOnTheSide  2 года назад

      It’s not one of TC optional upgrades, but they have built plenty of custom options in the past. I always worry about tongue weight and a balanced trailer, so this year I am going to streamline and get ride of all the “extras” we only use once and awhile.