Panel Discussion: Historical-Critical Studies of the Abrahamic Religions

A discussion with Robert Price PhD, independent scholar and author of Deconstructing Jesus and The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man; Mike Pytlik PhD, director of judaic studies, Oakland University; Herbert Berg PhD, professor of philosophy and religion, University of North Carolina-Wilmington and author of The Development of Exegesis in Early Islam: The Debate over the Authenticity of Muslim Literature. This event was co-sponsored by the Department of Language, Philosophy and the Arts, The Honor's Program, and the CASL Dean's Office.
University of Michigan-Dearborn does not necessarily endorse the speakers' views.

[@dipi71]

Again and again, religions prove to be interesting to me -- even though I am an atheist -- when observed through the lens of history. While I've been familiar with Dr Price and the abundance of his published work (the »Bible Geek« and »The Human Bible« podcasts are quite a learning experience in and of themselves, nevermind the always well-sourced books), the presentations by Herbert Berg and Mike Pytlik really amazed me. Thanks to the University of Michigan-Dearborn for sharing these discussions. Cheers!

[@JamesRichardWiley]

The core of all religion is fear of the unknown (death).
and a craving for happiness, security, and authority inherent in children.

[@jdt2003]

What a treasure-trove. Thanks UofM

[@DBCisco]

Sooooo, the "Hebrews" are Canaanites. Duh ! We know that already even the Bible says Abraham was a Sumerian from Ur traveling in Canaan. Not until the "Moses story" do the "Hebrews" (not even Jews) begin to differentiate from the Canaanites AND ONLY due to (slight at the time) religious differences. Please tell me how you can tell the religion of a house/skeleton/potsherd ? Also, the first speaker's ignorance is shown by his use of "Judean" as there were no "Jews" at the time.

[@hardheadjarhead]

DB Cisco “Judean” refers to the Kingdom Of Judah, which existed in the time periods discussed.

[@DBCisco]

Judah was NOT the same as Israel. Judah was Jewish, Israel never was Jewish. Judah did not exist before "Moses". Much like you could not exist before you grandfather lived.

[@watermelonlalala]

@@DBCisco Where did you get this information that Israel was never Jewish?

[@DBCisco]

@@watermelonlalala Israel and Judea were two separate kingdoms. Judea was Jewish, Israel was not. It is even in the Bible !

[@watermelonlalala]

@@DBCisco I knew they were two separate kingdoms and there was some funny business with the promise to Israel. So, who did they worship?

[@oxenbarnstokkriii8152]

hot damn. that Robert Price is a smart fella. he's not falling for no snake oil

[@1733Athalia]

Mike Pytlik doesn't understand what "minimalism" and "maximalism" is in textual approaches because he says he is sometimes one and sometimes the other. But either is just a point of view of how to treat written texts. If you say you will do one or the other depending on some other criteria, then you are using neither and instead just the other criteria, which he never explains.

[@ranro7371]

Berg fails in his analysis on multiple fronts:
1- different societal milieu: the Arabs have an oral tradition predating Islam by at least 400 years. They’re a tribal nomadic outside whose elders narrate the stories of their forefathers etc.
2- no equivalence between the biography of Jesus and Muhammad. One is full of miracles and one hardly has any.
3- the isnads are different because not all accounts survived, including major compilation like the Andalusian musnad, the isnads increase in size because of compilations.
4- the mental gymnastics abs hoops taken to justify why the obvious is not true; that is that the written accounts are true. The equivalence between Nation of Islam, whose research is based on is not true. They were a cult that was not subjected to scrutiny unlike Islam.
5- Islam began the modern study of historicity the Quran itself criticizes the previous traditions for editing their text. Islam is what ended antiquity and moved the world to the medieval tradition. See the early Muslim travel commentaries in the vulga, ibn khaldun sociology etc they are written as how a modern person would write it, unlike them Christian works with dragon slaying Saints.
6- Lies: dome of the inscription not Quran but close to it? It’s directly from the book!

[@SwitzerlandEducation4471]

I love Islamic religion