The Marvel Symphonic Universe
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2016
- Here's a second, supplementary video we made: • Hollywood Scores & Sou...
And a new Twitter account about temp music we made: / soundsliketemp
Watch Dan Golding's great response video here: • A Theory of Film Music
Off the top of your head, could you sing the theme from Star Wars? How about James Bond? Or Harry Potter? But here’s the kicker: can you sing any theme from a Marvel film? Despite 13 films and 10 billion dollars at the box office, the Marvel Cinematic Universe lacks a distinctive musical identity or approach. So let’s try to answer the question: what is missing from Marvel music?
This video was made by
Brian Satterwhite: / bmsatter
Taylor Ramos: / glassesattached
Tony Zhou: / tonyszhou
For educational purposes only. You can donate to support the channel at
Patreon: / everyframeapainting
Interviews filmed in Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Special thanks to David Chen for feedback: / davechensky
The Hollywood Reporter 2012 Composers Roundtable: • Danny Elfman, Alexandr...
The Hollywood Reporter 2014 Composers Roundtable: • Trent Reznor, Hans Zim...
Music Cues:
Daniel Pemberton - Orchestra Tuning Up (from The Movies (2005) video game)
Ramin Djawadi - “Test Day Eleven” (Unreleased from Iron Man)
Patrick Doyle - "8m52 Warriors Find Thor ALT” (Unreleased from Thor)
Henry Jackman - “The Smithsonian” (from Winter Soldier)
Danny Elfman - “Heroes” (from Age of Ultron)
Danny Elfman - “Farmhouse” (from Age of Ultron)
Patrick Doyle - “Ride to Observatory” (from Thor)
Henry Jackman - "A New Recruit” (from Civil War)
Temp Music Examples:
300 (2007)
Elliot Goldenthal - “Victorious Titus” from Titus (1999)
Tyler Bates - “Returns a King"
Titus owned by Fox Searchlight Pictures
300 owned by Warner Bros. Pictures
THOR (2011)
Steve Jablonsky - “Einstein’s Wrong” from Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (2009)
Patrick Doyle - “Hammer Found"
Transformers owned by Paramount Pictures
Thor first owned by Paramount Pictures, then transferred to Walt Disney Studios
MAD MAX: FURY ROAD (2015)
Henry Jackman - “Captain America” from Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
Junkie XL - “Brothers in Arms"
Winter Soldier owned by Walt Disney Studios
Mad Max: Fury Road owned by Warner Bros. Pictures
DRIVE ANGRY (2011)
Hans Zimmer - “Mombasa” from Inception (2010)
Michael Wandmacher - “Mass vs. Acceleration"
Inception owned by Warner Bros. Pictures
Drive Angry owned by Lionsgate/Summit Entertainment
Help us caption & translate this video!
amara.org/v/Vfyu/
Also if any of you start a fucking Marvel vs. DC thing in the comments, I'll just ban you. In our research, we found DC to be just as musically awkward as Marvel, just in a different way. This is an industry-wide problem.
tell that to Zod's snapped neck
damn, you are cursing now? shit just got real bruh
Which editing software do you use to make your videos?
God bless you, Tony
Yeah fuk em both, watchman rule
I can't believe how much taking out the narration fixed that Captain America scene. It got so good
it sound like stuerd little scene
Looks like directors nowadays don't know anymore how to use music to tell an emotional story. The narration is not necessary, the music should tell the story. Sadly, in many movies and TV shows now, music has become meaningless elevator music.
holy shit is amazing. It just makes it work.
mudkittens I got shivers when they removed the narration.
yessss
That last guy is the kind of dad you'd be so embarrassed of as a teenager, but you'd love to hang out with as an adult
Could not have said it better.
I am so distracted by his breast...
Makes me want to have a dad. i lost mine when I was two.
That guy was gold!
That one guy who knew the entire Spider-Man theme, I kept cracking up every time he launched into the next verse.
Genius
Whats your problem dude, you find that cringey shit funny?
I hope he got a singing gig out of this
@@joellim6988 AND U R THE COOLEST DUDE EVER RIGHT???
@@lucm4694 yes
A good example of Star Wars being creative with its music: In Empire Strikes Back when Han Solo gets frozen by carbonite, you don't have dark or depressing music. Instead you have a love theme playing, suddenly making the scene shift from "Han getting frozen" to "Han and Leia being separated. "
Bad Lip Reading ruined that for me
LOL Me too
Another cool Star Wars tidbit: The Imperial March, which everyone remembers as Vader's theme, didn't actually appear until The Empire Strikes Back! Talk about a great composer topping himself.
Exactly. Williams wrote the score like the film was an opera. Characters had their own themes, moments through the films can be recognized entirely by just the music playing during them. If I played Clash of Lightsabers for anyone they'd recognize it was from Luke's fight with Vader.
I subscribed 7 months ago. Just as I'm starting my work shift today, I get the notification for this upload. LONGEST DAY EVAR.
Thanks for the film love, Tony!
That guy singing the Spider-Man theme is my new favorite person
Spider-dad is the key to all this
+Okanehira
LOL
And he knows all of it.
my new personal hero
I like how he stopped after every other verse and thought to himself: am i gonna show these guys im such a dork that I know the whole fuckin thing?
really shows how the avengers theme was fairly unrecognizable until infinity war came out and they put the theme on every scene
Right?then Endgame come too
The theme is so recognizable now
But is it reconisable because its good? Or because they repeated it so much it became too hard to miss?
@@MrVos-mh7qo I know I rewatched those trailers again and again both intentionally and from RUclips ads and from other pre movie trailers.
Why not both
That’s because Avengers hasn’t been around for a while like Harry Potter or Star Wars at that point. Now it’s been over a decade since the avengers movies started, and people remember the music, they’ve had time to sit with it
Seeing the Danny Elfman clips made me sad. He’s such talented composer when he’s allowed to exercise creative freedom.
Fable theme is a lightning example of this.
"By August 2016, Mark Mothersbaugh was hired to score the film.[2][3] Mothersbaugh was influenced by a video essay from the RUclips channel Every Frame a Painting, which criticized the scores from previous Marvel Cinematic Universe films for their lack of memorability, to make the score for Thor: Ragnarok as distinctive as possible.[4]" - Music Director for Thor Ragnarok
@@pcyr9999 Thanks for posting the source! It looks like this video singlehandedly changed Marvel's blandness and gave us this: ruclips.net/video/FOabQZHT4qY/видео.html
Wow, amazing
The most underrated comment of this video.
That is so awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was literally coming here to say it felt like they fixed this with Ragnarok & Infinity War/Endgame. Some of my favourite cinematic music in those films.
Dude at the end is a legend. No idea who he is. But he's awesome.
Lol yeah, he just kept going.
Zero fucks were given
Instant nerd celebrity!
I love how embarrassed his kids were, haha.
never knew there were so many lyrics to the Spidey theme!
Yup...my like to this video goes for him! My most favorite cartoon theme of all time!
Oh my goodness!!! Marvel should pay this man millions, Marvel earned a lot by improving its theme music in the last 3 years. A very well researched video. Hats off!!
exactly, they know this video exist and didn't pay him ;(
www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/thor-ragnarok-composer-acknowledges-marvel-scores-sound-same-1054503/
They didn't improve that much. Outside if avengers endgame I can't think of any memorable songs from marvel films.
The Avengers had an iconic theme since 2012 and Captain America, Winter Soilder and Ant-Man had amazing scores as well. What are you guys talking about?
@@Yourboss3382 We are talking about the recall value of those themes, which obviously wasn't much
@@galactic85 Black Panther
"this is really a safe way to score a film"
That's my main problem with these movies. Everything is SAFE.
Not really
I would agree before but not after Infinity War and Endgame. They finally had real stakes and the finally also have big prices to pay to get what they want.
@@mathiyanz Literally all the Disney movies are formulaic but whatever. Same humor, plot structure, etc. Only endgame did anything different and that was only because RDJ wanted out.
Exactly!
Well,Winter Soldier was risky in terms of tone and it worked.
Lol that man in the end is a real fan, literally spider-man's theme was the only one I could remember and it isn't even from the movies.
The Starspangled Man song from Cpt. America, though?
It is now ! A remixed version of it was in Homecoming :) I can't remember if it was at the start credit or the end credit though
They play an orchestral version in the opening credits and iirc if you watch the end credits long enough they play the version by The Ramones eventually?
it was in Marvel's Logo animation
I can sing Homecomings Main theme of the top of my Head. No, not the Orchestral version of the 60s theme. I mean the Main theme that plays throughout the Movie
ex: Rubble scene
That guy at the end...amazing! Haha.
He's a Dad amongst dads.
his son at the bottom doesnt look too happy
Manboobs
he won my heart, always keep that childhood spirit people it is so endearing
awesome!
This video really makes me appreciate the soundtrack for Into the Spiderverse, because the score was made to fit with the movie. What's up Danger is still really incredible, not just on its own, but in how well it meshes with the tone and emotions of the scene.
into the spiderverse had an incredible score
Yes, Into the Spiderverse was perfection.
But I've liked all the nonMCU Spider-Man movies.
And those first two raimi ones had great Elfman scores
The only music I remember from spider-verse was “sunflower” but hey, that’s not too shabby.
@@langreeves6419 fucking mcu fanboy detected.
@@nickchavarria8052 poor fucking mcu fanboy detected.
TFW HE TOOK OUT THE PERSON TALKING IN THE CAPTAIN AMERICA SCENE AND I STARTED CRYING???? SIR YOU MAKE SUCH A STRONG POING
Strong poing indeed
his poing do be strong
May the poing be with you
so poing
I think you missed the poing..
That last guy deserves half the revenue from this video in my non serious opinion..,
He is operating at 1000% Dad Mode
mm,m,w,s
Seriously awesome dude.
Tony doesn't monetize his videos.
Yesss
What kind of "apology" was that?
"We're so sorry that people think we did something wrong. We have complete respect for the guy whose music we ripped off."
Yep.
It is written by lawyer. Anything more could be used in court to squeeze millions of profits. So yeah, it is sleazy worded.
The kind written by expensive lawyers and backed up with a modest yet sufficiently large check written out to the offended party.
Ya Dink
It's the kind of ''we say what you want to hear as long as it doesn't cost money or result into more PR trouble.''
12:40 fucking STOLE the show.
I can tell his family was embarrassed but he was the GOAT.
Great video overall. Never considered so many things that this brought to attention.
I still feel like there's very little I can confidently recite but there are 100% now a few songs that I can make a sloppy attempt at.
I’m glad Danny Elfman was in this, but they failed to mention his score to the 2002 Spider-Man movie! That music is extremely effective in playing the emotion and energy of the picture. Yet, it could also stand alone as an incredible piece of art! Love you Danny! 🖤
The Captain America clip without the narrator is so much more effective. Amazing to see the impact of such a small change
aquamus this channel edited out the boy seeing cap the first time they roll clip because the narrating STOPS during that moment. they intentionally misguided the viewers to falsely establish their point.
There's a risk though that audiences come to depend on the score too much to tell them how to feel at any given moment if it's placed above sound or dialogue. It's like how comedies on TV use a laughter track to remind you to laugh at all the jokes. Some of the most exciting scenes in cinema can be done without any resort to music, like the original mission impossible wires scene. Using music to get an audience pumped or psyched or sad is the most quick and basic way there is really I feel. The score in the phantom meance is amazing but I'd still rather watch Captain America the Winter Solider because really music can't compensate for more important things like writing and directing.
I think it sounded a bit weird. Like those middle notes that rise right before the kid is shown indicate that a narrator or something should probably be there.
I enjoy the narration because it's Gary Sinise, and that's such a Sinise (support the troops) thing to do that it grounds Cap firmly in this universe for me.
it became emotionally richer and deeper without the narrator’s voice and only the music
Wow, I had no idea that temp music was now being abused like that! What's the point of hiring a creative professional only to get them to pretty much copy someone else's work?!
Or worse: Hiring a creative professional to have them copy somebody else's copy of their own work. =P
It is cheaper than licensing the actual songs.
Eh.. I work in sound post for film and I see it all the time.. temp music is pretty much copied all the fucking time.
They need the professional to "change" the music enough to avoid copyright lawsuits.
The Marvel song that will always stick in my head is the Winter Solder's Theme. Something about the hard pounding sound along with the high pitched note that drags on, building tension every time he enters a scene. But if someone asked me to repeat it, I couldn't without just sounding weird.
3:03
“It’s like the air conditioner in the background”
*air conditioner turns on *
That is INSANE how powerful 5:16 was without the narration!
it's fake. the emotional scene is not shown at the end of the first example, but would have had no narrations in either moment (when the boy spots cap). this channel intentionally edited it out to prove their point. the narration serves as key exposition for bucky if you never saw First Avenger.
I disagree. I think it provides a focused bolstering of cap's contextual importance in his relationship with the everyday Joe in the movie's universe; reminded of his living legend status, as evidenced by the kind of language used, it's emotional on more than one level than if there were to be just the comparatively nebulous emotional sound of the score. The score alone makes it emotionally claustrophobic, which would make sense if he were just remembering the horrors of war. The tone of the score clearly belies this; emotional but heroic. If it faded up in volume over the, doing this gradually, then maybe it could work. But it kind of does that anyway in the original edit once he sees the kid.
I teared up from thar shit mane
I think rather than being powerful just like that, it shows that the scene has more potential without the narration.
But the score would need to be changed a bit in tone and volume if it actually stood alone.
Feels like Spielberg directed it.
Every Frame a Painting is currently the channel with the most production quality of youtube.
Yes Tony's film insight is very insightful; however, RUclips has tons of channels with better production value. I still love Every Frame A Painting, but it has nowhere near the "best" production value.
S&S Pictures Well what do you watch then? I think Crash Course, Veritasium, Vsauce 3, Kurzgesagt, Wisecrack and maybe School of Life are on similar levels...
I've become a huge fan of kaptainkristian lately.
Nerdwriter1 has excellent production value.
Ahoy has some of the best that I've seen
That's why Hans Zimmer scores stick out more to me, his themes such rich emotions out of you. Wonder Woman's theme is a big example.
The entire Sherlock Holmes soundtrack is 👌👌
Gladiator!
He created Thor Ragnarok. Aaaaaaaah ah! Aaaaaaaah! Ah! Aaaaaaaaaah Ah! Remember that music?
@@davidnjihia6781 bruh what no.
The entire Modern Warfare 2 soundtrack!
I wish more movie creators would think about this! Pretty much every “iconic” movie/tv show in the last 70 years that have stayed in the public consciousness (ie, not the ones that win oscars but then disappear) have a well chosen score and/or a memorable “theme” tune!!
It's ironic finding this video post End Game, years after this video was released.
It's almost like Marvel realised they needed to get their act together with music and now that Avengers theme gets everyone hyped
Again how does it go again? I have no idea.
no. who remembers the avengers theme
Its just not memorable though. Its pretty generic action dun dun music of the post inception era.
I've heard a couple people in public sing the Avengers theme. Especially on the buildup to Endgame
The only notable tune most Marvel Music sounds like stock tunes that come in editing programs
Haha that ending!!! That was pretty cool
wrenthereaper
Dude, with the number of subscribers you have you could be making a LOT of money. Why don't you ever make videos? That's so interesting to see!
Isiskos I"m full time at Corridor and Sam and Niko pumping out content every day! My personal channel is now my side project. Check it out and I hope to see you in the comments there!
that's probably the ONLY Marvel music that is recognizable. XDXDXD
One of the most remembered marvel songs should be Winter Soldier credits.
or the x-men opening theme
That dad enjoying the spider-man theme so much is THE BIGGEST MOOD.
Tony, I refer back to your videos all of the time. These video are so inspiring and have propelled me into thinking of making video essays of my own. The editing in these videos is just impeccable, so you have my praise. Thank you for making content like this.
I swear I've heard inception music in a million other movies. Now I know why.
Even when I'm not watching smash videos, I see GimR!
I totally agree. (also, thanks for all you do for the community!)
+Thomas Speranza ^^^
Holy shit I found GimR deep in the comment section again. Do I get a prize?
The GIMZ always winz
Yup, one example is the Hope theme from Xmen Days of future past
This is an 11/10 video.
Eye-opening to some, confirmation to others and needs to be shared all over the world.
perfectly put!
seriously all of this guys' videos are 11/10
iang true
Such a confirmation. I always listen consciously for music in films.
just asked a friend to do this and she hummed like 9 marvel songs.
I've been listening to soundtracks for a long time, like 20 years and I couldn't understand why I haven't liked as many the last couple years. Thanks a lot, this is a brilliant, well redacted and very well elaborated analysis. And you restored my hope in soundtracks, really thanks a lot.
Sorry for being 3 years late.
100% Marvel watched this video and decided to fix their music problem.
The composer of thor ragnarok wrote an essay that this video influenced him. It didn't exactly last for the movies that came after, in my opinion, but they tried something different at least (not just the funky music, but also thors rebrand from shakespeare to himbo). Same with hulk's autotune voice, though that could be coincidental.
i see everyone talking about subsequent marvel music being noticeably more prominent but i would still be stumped to hum a tune from Ragnorok or Avengers as would many stopped on the street i imagine. too little too late imo
@@JadeIsBunny yeah
article : www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/thor-ragnarok-composer-acknowledges-marvel-scores-sound-same-1054503/
Coming back to this video after watching Endgame. For all the people saying he was creating a false narrative, go back and watch the trailers for Age of Ultron and the original Avengers. Marvel only started doing their signature "Da daaaa da daaaa" in Infinity War and onwards. I think someone at Marvel saw this :D
Marvel did see this. Thor 3 director credited this video.
It's so annoying everyone is jumping on a hate train because nobody can keep track of their history. He was right in 2016. And they greatly improved, maybe even because of this video. But people just know it's memorable now and retroactively think that's how it always been.
@@destrogamer4521 That makes sense. I remember there were a number of scenes in Thor 3 that specifically linger on just the music to have it inspire the emotion in the scene. This is maybe best shown when Hulk turns back into Banner. It could've been done as horror or even comedy, but the music is so pained and tragic even before any action happens that it sets up the welling of emotions inside "The Monster" before we see him break down as Thor looks on, horrified.
@@destrogamer4521 if Taika Waititi really did watch this video, then he made right decision by using Led Zeppelin's "Immigrant Song" for Thor Ragnarok.
not true, Avengers theme is played in the first Avengers when they team up
I feel like the drive angry score is lawsuit worthy, holy crap
I guess the problem is that they're all in on it, so it would be endless.
Sounds just slightly better than the temp imo, but yea.
Im not sure Temp music is entirely to blame. Everyone agrees that the original Star wars scores where absolutely fantastic. But heres the dirty not-so-secret of them. They where heavily temped with things like Holtz' planets suite and the like, and John Williams did not stray far from those temps.
It's also a factor of time and exposure. Star Wars' music has been played loud & up front for nearly 50 years now. _everyone_ knows the themes because dynamics were much more difficult to emphasise over the only way many people had access for repeat viewings, TV speakers. Therefore, the music that plays loudly and upfront will stick in the memory. They've rewatched those movies countless times and the entire franchise and advertising of the toys and other stuff uses that theme, so it has longer to stew and be remembered. They didn't stick to a single theme for any characters in the early MCU, the themes for Iron Man 1 & 2 were different, same for First Avenger and Winter Soldier and later Civil War, Thor & The Dark World, none of them used _the exact same theme_ , they usually either took a motif and ran it again in a different piece, or they straight up replaced it.
When this video came out, the newest MCU movie was Age of Ultron. Age of Ultron used a new theme, Heroes, instead of the now widely known Avengers theme, which BLASTED over the single most iconic moment in the franchise, and the result of a 10 year buildup, and we're now 6 years after that moment.
People have rewatched the popular movies many times since then, especially during lockdowns, and the motifs have been more up front and memorable because they've started using loud cliché hero brass. Everyone knows the Tom Holland Spider-Man motif now because we had 3 movies of it, especially the last one that ended the movie on an epic choral interpretation, and it helps that all 3 of those movies, as well as Doctor Strange, were done by Michael Giacchino, who also did The Incredibles 1 and 2. Danny Elfman came back in to do Multiverse of Madness because Sam Raimi liked what he did on Spider-Man 1 and 2.
We got Ludwig Göransson doing Black Panther and then making a soundtrack that Star Wars nerds regard as on par with John Williams' work, with The Mandalorian, and that theme stuck in everyone's heads because not only is it a banger and very unique, it's a tv show theme. It plays every single episode. People heard it every week, twice an episode from opening & credits.
My point is, you can't call the early MCU music bland and unmemorable when they're actively avoiding repeating the use of themes. Just look at the complaints of the Avengers theme being overplayed now because we heard it in Avengers, part of the motif in Age of Ultron, again in Antman when Scott goes to the Avengers compound, I think it plays in Homecoming when Peter is shown the Iron Spider suit, and then you have Infinity War, it plays in the post credits of Captain Marvel when Fury names the Avengers Intiative, and then you have the "Avengers Assemble" moment in Endgame, which has the theme build on from an entirely new piece that people also now remember despite only hearing it once because of the moment it played over (Portals). Post-Endgame, we've heard it in Far From Home, Black Widow, and in What If multiple times.
All of that, from a now 12 year old movie.
People remember Motifs not just because they're catchy, but because they're *everywhere*. To be completely fair, try asking someone to sing Transformers movie music, or The Fast & The Furious. The MCU cannot be blamed for people not remembering themes, hell, ask someone to remember the Tobey Macguire Spider-Man theme and they'll usually draw a blank because those themes are 24 years old and only played 3 times (hell, they'll give you the black suit theme instead because of memes) meanwhile, Batman '89 got reused on the animated show and the Lego games.
Temp music is not to blame when a director wants incidental music that punctuates and pushes a particular feeling to an audience through audio language they've heard before (The Inception "BWAAAA" in trailers etc). It's auditory shorthand, and sometimes composers just alter their previous work (Alan Sylvestri with Mouse Hunt & Avengers)
This is a great channel. One of the best examples of bringing attention to the soundtrack is the piano heading into the third act of Seven Pounds. A single note out of scale... never quite lets you settle on what you are experiencing on screen.
I felt chills when I heard the Thor music switched
The interesting part is that the music he replaced it with was from the Thor soundtrack itself! Which stands to reason that the problem isn't with the music - its how the music is used.
i Know!!!!
Every marvel movie has a good memorable theme. The problem is that the themes aren't re-used in other movies. Thor has a different theme in every movie, Iron Man has a different theme in every movie....
Not being able to remember the music is because the producers aren't letting the theme become iconic because they keep ordering their composers to replace it!
it feels like LOTR
Ioazie
Tony, great point, but it is made even better by the counterpoint - Guardians of the Galaxy. They uses 70's pop/rock songs so well in their soundtrack, that it became part of the love of the movie. I still listen to "Awesome Mix, Volume 1" playlist that I made. Those songs DID anchor emotional moments, they WERE RISKS that the director took, and it PAID OFF because this was the Marvel movie that I most identify with. I kept waiting for you to bring this up as the exception that proved the rule.
Can't wait for "Awesome Mix, Volume 2" - which is PART OF THE PLOT.
That's not an original score. Using famous needle drops from the 70s (however well used they are in the film, and they are VERY well used) is very different from crafting an original score like Star Wars. I'm sure you can sing Awesome Mix Volume 1 but how's your ability with the Guardians of the Galaxy main theme (as heard in the Kyln Escape and at the end of the film)?
Maybe that was James Gunn's hack to get around the problem? I kept waiting for your interview subjects to break out with "If you like Pina Coladas...." or "Moonage Daydream ooohhhh yeahhhhhh".
ps. Thanks for the reply!
Your reply got you a patron
True but the MCU should have an iconic song for each film to differentiate it from just a typical superhero film. I do like the avengers theme song tho
I am using this video for my school project about how music is differently used nowadays compared to the old days of Movies. I think this video was wonderfully made and well put. especially the twist at the end 11:30 where you made a really great point about marvels music playing it safe. great Job. and thank you.
Its so true about the film being cut to the temp music - I used to do some editing work, we'd time cuts to music, arrange scenes so the movement in the shots gelled with the music, the music really gets embedded and that was just on documentaries. Love this. Really interesting!
It's like someone at marvel saw this.
They did
@@Belioyt sounds like you're in the production?
A response to this video ruclips.net/video/UcXsH88XlKM/видео.html
And then ignored it?
Cameron Ternent um no. They listened and now the MCU scores are much better and more recognizable.
I was like "OH OH WAIT I KNOW!" *singing the Sam Raimi Spiderman theme* and then I realized, it's not apart of the MCU
thats not sam raimi's it's from the cartoon
but still
speaking of cartoons though .... the Spectacular Spiderman theme and 90s X-Men themes were amazing
That was one of the only Marvel Films that had a discernible theme.
The original Sam Raimi Spider-Man was made in a time where they actually scored movies beautifully. Now they're lazy
When talking about temp music, it reminded me a lot as a musician and someone who raps about when I write music to a beat that I found online, and it sounds cool, but then later I have to make a new beat original for myself and then put those lyrics to fit. I get it to work sometimes with restructuring it to mesh well for the final product, but I always remember the way it was this first time I made it to the beat I found on RUclips or writing to a famous instrumental from one of my favorite artists. Weird to make that connection in this context too because it really makes sense and I understand both sides in my own way. Really cool video!
I cannot believe how much of a difference it made when you removed the narration in that scene with Steve at the museum. Also, there’s a reason Hans Zimmer’s soundtracks are among the most played music in my iTunes library... Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, his soundtracks for those films are gold.
Funny you’d say that because I found this from a Reddit thread pwning on the Snyderverse and claiming that even the music for BvS is shite nvmd the rest of the movie.
This speaks volumes about how I feel about Marvel movies. While I have enjoyed nearly every Marvel movie, they have all seemed formulaic, bland, and predictable. This resonates down to how they score films. Always playing it safe, making good but not original great films.
Pun intended?
+Caleb Saxton, Yeah, I like Marvel, but you're right.
That's pretty much Disney. Its fun, safe, and processed for biggest profits. Don't expect anything that hasn't been formulated to the nth degree.
Lucas Alves The thing is... even their fun and interesting movies are formulaic to the Nth degree. Probably focused tested to hell and back.
+Lucas “Prrg” Alves Captain America The Winter Soldier's villain was just a regular guy in charge of hydra which was refreshing
Holy shit when you changed the music for the Thor scene it totally changed the atmosphere omg. I've never thought music would make such a difference. The original music would have been good for a comedy-ish movie, but to my knowledge, Thor is more focused on action and fighting and stuff, so your version would have much better suited the scene. Good Job!
Music makes so much more difference than you realize. Often, it's basically half of the scene.
The scene was meant to be a comic beat though- they're knocking at the window and yell 'FOUND YOU!' at Thor, having heroic music underneath that moment would make the sequence tonally jarring as the visuals and the dialogue are trying to sell a joke while the music is trying to sell the scene as an epic reunion.
Tony, I've been binging your channel of sorts and I am so happy that I found it (or maybe YT found it for me?). I'm an excuse of an armchair film expert and some of the things your work taught me were things that I knew were there but I never noticed them, which fits so well with the nature of the medium (such as the Spielberg oners). Thanks!!
I enjoy the "embarrassing" dad at the end of the end of this video so much, I am glad you have captured this perfect moment on video forever.
Avengers is the only one can hum off the top of my head.
***** Lol I actually heard the score in my head when reading that
Captain America March.
Fcfff
Yeah, the Avengers theme is very distinct.
Iron Man 3 also has a pretty distinct main theme (played orchestrally throughout, and in a jazzy version for the ending credits), but it doesn't get a lot of attention, probably because that movie had such a mixed response. I liked Iron Man 3, and the soundtrack was one reason why.
Really happy someone made a video about this, because it's a damn shame. Considering all the hugely talented people Marvel bring on to direct, produce and star in their movies, they could achieve great things with score if they didn't play it so safe. Especially considering how team-ups and crossovers are such a big part of the franchise.
EDIT: Just realized I can also remember the Ant-Man theme from the top of my head despite having seen the movie only once. It's a fairly simplistic theme, but hey.
It's the only themes that's been used in more then one film, if you don't count that TDW Captain America theme joke.
Ha, that guy singing Spiderman at the end, lol :-) He looks a bit like Forest Whitaker.
I was about to say: wow Whitaker has some skills XD
Thank you!! I had these thoughts in the back of my mind and I just assumed I was crazy for disliking the blandness of the Marvel film's music. Thank you for making this video, it's so inspiring!
This is the only channel that I never subscribed to but still am able to remember the channel name after god knows how many years since I've come across it. I've enjoyed your content since then and suddenly I just remembered your channel and was hoping there are new content after so many years. I hope you're well buddy!
I swear, i could only remember The Avengers theme (especially in the iconic one-shot scene with all of theme) and first Iron Man. I dont think Guardians of the Galaxy counts, since it's about real songs...
You mean OSt's when you say "real songs"?
GoT has a lot of epic soundtrack besides the songd
🙁🎶
Dxöfnfghfj(jjjhjkkjjiojjkbklnjjjjijjkopåvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv ccvvv.
Yup Guardians of the Galaxy has an iconic soundtrack. If I hear a song that's in the film, my mind automatically goes to that scene... They did a great job with the soundtrack.
Remember guys, this was made in 2016 when the Avengers trailers didn’t include the Avengers theme. Now, the theme is in every trailer and has become iconic.
yeah they finally made the risk. apparently there are a bunch of ignorant people in the comments section. the main avengers theme only became really apparent after the teaser trailer of Infinity War. Cos that's when Marvel studios wanted to take the risk for the Endgame. It's better for it to be massively remembered to the most important films of the entire MCU.
DUHNNNNNNNN
DUNN-DUNNN DAA DUNN
DUNNN DUNNN DUNNNNN
Jahaziel Cipolla +
@@xshxr probably cos they had a lot of other stuff to do. too busy. or just not true fans
@@xshxr or late to the party
Well, it's about 4 years too late, but I've created a video response to this one. I talk about how The Falcon and the Winter Soldier utilizes leitmotif in the MCU and in turn, how the MCU is full of iconic pieces of music: ruclips.net/video/5VNd0auQJeQ/видео.html
Just starting the vid and the only song I can call off the top of my head is the 'big group-up' song from the end of the first Avengers movie, where the original 6 are regrouping, killing aliens, and the camera is spinning around all dynamic. That's it. Out of what feels like 70 movies and that's it. Man...
Q: "What is missing from their music?"
A: "John Williams."
that explains the Harry Potter music...
And Danny Elfman. They both used to be the kings of superheroes theme (Superman, Tim Burton's Batman, and Sam Raimi's Spiderman). Now, Marvel just used Danny Elfman as secondary composer for Age of Ultron and ditched Alan Silvestri who composed a memorable theme for the first Avengers movie. It's a good thing Alan will be back for Infinity Wars.
age of ultron has just a messy and unbalanced score. not possible to listen to.
It's very possible to listen to for me, moreso then something like WS. A lot of the score is actually very good.
yes.
They're also shot safe and like boring TV movies. Flat, uninteresting blocking and lighting. No risk. No art injected whatsoever.
I feel like Guardians of The Galaxy was pretty artistic. both visually and musically
Sure - because it was made by a director who stands up for his idea of a film. (Slither, Super, etc) And the music was memorable only because 80% of it was already famous needle drops from the 70s.
True, Marvel movies rely solely on nailing their character's personalities, charismatic casting and snappy dialogue. I enjoy the movies, but they're barely functional as art.
Really? Haven't you seen Jessica Jones or Daredevil?
Ah, kay, you said like TV movies.
I still think that Guardians are pretty well shot, so is Iron Man 3.
Woah, the change to that Thor scene was so good! I love how you used music to call back to earlier events in the story.
I never noticed this. I never even knew about temp music. Now I’m hearing it in most movies I’m seeing. This video altered my brain chemistry. So well done.
I'm that one nerd who can hum the Avengers Theme.
You're not alone. :)
I can hum all the themes... so I think I am alone
Not alone my friend.
Same.
The first Iron Man had a sweet theme as well.
No you are not, i was about to toss the screen downstairs when these people could not remember Avenger's theme song.
This video is what made Marvel highlight their avengers theme in every trailer and everyone knows it now! All thanks to this dude!!
Really?? How do you know?
@@krzysztofpiasek5682 no he's right. The director for Thor 3 has credited this video
@@eddydrouet1888 Got a link to this, mate? Director crediting this video.
@@yeppieyay8906 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor:_Ragnarok_(soundtrack)
Still having one recognisable theme for 20+ movies is kinda weak. I am sure you can think of at least 4 Star Wars Themes for the Original Trilogy.
That ending is just the most adorable thing, so wholesome!!!
After infinity war and endgame, I get goosebumps every time I listen to the score. Marvel really stepped up their game.
Not really, just one theme that's been the same since 2012, the rest it's outter garbage in terms of ost.
@@eliasfigarzon9813 L
@@eliasfigarzon9813 Infinity war/Endgame also had Portals and Gamora's death theme. Aswell as that Civil War, Winter Soldier, GOTG all have great music. The reason none of them are memorable is because there is so much content coming out now that no one track that becomes widely recognized.
@Elias Figarzon
Most MCU movies are great.
Cope
@@eliasfigarzon9813 Yeah, but they do different, unique, bold variations to that theme. That “one theme” is on par with ANYTHING John Williams ever did. And I say that as a massive John Williams fan.
that dad is cool af
Geo DOOM
The poor kid tho. Just watch him!
11:23 "were not saying "this is the right choice here"...... my shiverings beg to differ
I think about this video essay so often. I honestly think that it's one of the reasons that the Marvel music has been so impactful ever since. I feel like when I first watched this, every point hit home -- the music just didn't stick around. But now with Avengers, Black Panther, Spiderman, and even every one of the Disney+ series, Marvel has taken this to heart.
Thanks for making this when you did! There's a good chance that this video impacted that reality!
The guy at the end was waiting for that moment so his life.
It's just like triple a games
Edit: I didn't really mean with the music, but more with how developers are making safe choices so that their games will sell rather than trying anything unique or inventive. But I guess the comment still stands with game music to an extent.
lol, good point.
Assassin's Creed 2
Even Halo has derivative music now with 5.
Excuse-fucking-you, Hans Zimmer's Crysis 2 and Modern Warfare 2 are beautiful.
Meanwhile, in Hotline Miami...
I got goosebumps in the Captain America scene. It’s insane how important film music is.
right! captain America is missing emotional investment
Remember, this video was responsible for that insane captain america reveal in infinity war as well as the final team up in endgame.
Except the Captain America music used when he's wielding Mjolnir is ripped straight from The First Avenger's climax vs the Red Skull. The reason you remember it is because Endgame is 6 years old, that moment was hype as fuck, and you've likely rewatched it multiple times since then.
This video was made when each MCU movie used unique motifs and didn't reuse music. You hear the Age of Ultron theme in this video a few times and who remembers that over the fucking B L A S T I N G of the 2012 Avengers theme over the "Avengers Assemble" moment? I do because I've always liked that version as a piece on it's own and because I have a music background, but the normies don't. It would have been just as fair to ask them what the Transformers movie theme is, or the DCU.
This video pointed blame at Marvel for studios and Directors using Temp music just because they have the highest box office earnings across a franchise, while the blame should fall especially on projects where notorous micromanagers like Warner Bros and Fox interfered so much that composers weren't signed on until the last minute during Post-production, or other composers were replaced by incoming directors, like Junkie XL on Justice League.
I hope that dad at the end is having a good day because that was a beautiful performance and he looked like he was having fun and that made me smile
If it counted also the TV series, you'd just need to whistle Daredevil's opening theme
i could never forget that intro... truly amazing
u would be right. If the video would not telling about movies only
John Paesano did a marvelous job on that one
I have that theme as my ringtone
Oh yeah. And Jessica Jones. And the Lonely Man theme. And the Spiderman theme from 2002.
What's missing from the MCU that Star Wars, Harry Potter, and James Bond have?
Well, two thirds of those have John Williams...
ricky gervais 🤦🏼♂️
James Bond's music wasn't written by John Williams but your point is valid. You get john williams and you aren't telling him what to do, he will do whatever the hell he likes. David Arnold was the composer for James Bond from Tomorrow Never Dies to Quantum of Solace and i read somewhere that when a director tells him "I don't want the music to be noticed" he will just reply with "Do you notice the music in E.T.?" "yes" "And what's wrong with E.T.?" I get the sense he bullies directors into letting him do what he thinks is best aha
Megadog the avengers theme is so good
@@rhodriwilliams2599 that's why he said two-thirds
TheDragonKing yes my mistake. Still that story about David Arnold is fairly relevant.
Absolutely love this video - insane how marvel has turned it around since…the avengers theme is definitely iconic now
Wow, I just watched this and I have forever been made aware! Great observations and I agree with you. Safe is such a dissapointment and music is emotional, it's in our genetics! Love the guy at at the end too!
This just further proves that John Williams is a god amongst men. Everyone can hum his themes.
Hans Zimmer as well.
BWOA!
The superhero nerd I love Zimmer's scores as well but trying to argue that Williams' scores sound identical and Zimmer's don't is a bit ridiculous.
+Evoo nah Han Zimmer is well known but it's not like people leave the theater humming his tunes
Hans Zimmer is the *problem* here. This entire video, without mentioning his name beyond a credit for a temp track, laid out exactly what's wrong with what he does.
As a composer, I can't remember one single score from any Marvel film in the past 8 years off the top of my head. However, while it takes me a moment to find it in my head, the original scores for the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man films had some interesting, highly fitting, and memorable scores. The music within that film seemed to fit the magical feel of Spider-Man swinging through the skies and around the massive buildings of New York and I love it. Something I feel most Marvel films have lacked since then. And I believe those scores were by Danny Elfman as well.
Iron Man - Driving with the Top Down
Thor - Sons of Odin
Thor - Thor Kills the Destroyer
Captain America - Captain America March
Avengers - The Avengers
Avengers - Helicarrier
Avengers - A Promise
Iron Man 3 - Iron Man 3
Captain America: TWS - Taking a Stand
Captain America: TWS - The Winter Soldier
Captain America TWS - End of the Line
Guardians of the Galaxy - To the Stars
Guardians of the Galaxy - Black Tears
Ant Man - Main Theme
Ant Man - Tales to Astonish
Civil War - Cap's Promise
Iron Man - Driving with the Top Down and Iron Man 3's ending credits Can You Dig It are so good.
Same. I don't have to Google a list or anything. Sandman's theme from three is a piece I hum every so often it's stuck with me so well.
Thinking to DC, Basically all of BvS's score. I'll count MoS in there since the iterations on the themes went through.
oh my god it's garrett
I can never get enough of Driving With The Top Down
Great video and very insightful. Original soundtracks for movies is very important for me and is something I react to everytime when I see a movie if I like it or not. The only OST that i could think of in my head when he asked these people about Marvel songs is from the Incredible Hulk - Favela Escape, cause that OST actually makes me feel like im being chased.
And that father at the end got to be one of the coolest!
Thanks to you, marvel upped their music game from Thor Ragnarok!!
Currently the Loki series is streaming and the soundtrack is amazing!!
yeah, marvel know this video existed (why did marvel didn't pay this man millions)
proof : www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/thor-ragnarok-composer-acknowledges-marvel-scores-sound-same-1054503/
Loki has my favorite soundtrack of any TV show, ever. Both Seasons 1 and 2 are amazing. Natalie Holt should win ALL THE THINGS!!!
I was hoping someone would start "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm hooked on a feeling"
Yes, but that's not original music. Also Reservoir Dogs.
ooga chaka ooga chaka :v
we are talking scores not soundtrack. Although GOTG had a great soundtrack.
Tarantion's music choices are the best. That's why i bought the soundtrack from Pulp Fiction.
That's the soundtrack, not the score. In the same case: Suicide Squad also has a great soundtrack, but a lackluster score. The new DCEU is using the same "safe" choices as Marvel does. The only exception to this is the new Wonder Woman theme... which is wonderful and everybody recognizes it the moment they hear it.
Wow Tony is really churning out these videos, he just released one 4 months ago...
oh wait scrap that piece of sarcasm he just released another...
I'll take quality over quantity any day.
+VARIOUS videos It doesn't take 4 months to make a 13 min vid
+Steven Zhang It can take way over 4 months to make a 13 min video. There's a lot of research to do. Do you think Tony just had all this information in his head? Maybe he slacked three months and worked one? No.
Steven Zhang
Maybe not if that's all you're doing, but this channel doesn't support itself, you need to work, eat and sleep. You need to go out and capture footage of strangers (those people in the video are almost certainly not the only people approached) on a day sunny enough for it to look good, not to mention the amount of research and knowledge you need to put something like this together, and all of that is just before you come to the editing stage.
Quality content like this takes time. A lot of it. I'm sure Tony appreciates enthusiasm for his content, but you need to understand that you absolutely cannot put out a video (or indeed a pair of videos) like this every week while working (I believe Tony does work full-time unless something has changed for him recently) without significantly dropping the quality of the videos in question (not to mention quickly running out of ideas). Try editing a video like this and you'll quickly realise it's not easy, and it's certainly not quick.
It's that intro with marvel pages flipping through, I can hum it for a shortwhile. With the loud brass being the final part, I love it.
Well those themes mentioned at the start, Star Wars, James Bond and Harry Potter have had many more years to be listened to and have appeared in every movie of the franchise. Marvel don’t generally reuse themes because of the changing composers from film to film. And now that the avengers has had more time to be watched and listened to, the theme has become just as iconic. So the real key to iconic music is, first and for most, it must be pretty awesome, but it needs to be repeated and needs time for fans to become familiar to it.
This video literally made me realize the reason that I wasn't getting emotionally affected to marvel films, really good analysis.
OMG the last guy was awesome
I'm far more impressed than I should be.
Same, he was beyond awesome.
I think those Marvel and DC movies are - above everything - just loud. Loud to a point that you wish for silence.
Iconic scores don't become iconic overnight. It takes time.
Then Wonder Woman's theme song just blows up anything Marvel has made.
true
There's just something powerful about that theme that gives me instant chills. Some people hated on it after BvS saying it was out of place, but it was a risky theme, and I really believe it worked because it was so different and out there.
+James Hartman
It just perfectly fits in with her persona, being someone from a society of warrior women. The moment she lowered her shield after protecting Batman from Doomsday's blast, her facial expression (another thing DC has doing great at) gave a strong sense of hostility, as if she was about to devour prey, like a warrior should be like, and then the song just amplifies that emotion exponentially, therefore creating an amazing theme that kept me rocking out, singing it for weeks.
The best part of that theme is that they're using it in the Wonder Woman solo film. I love how they use it at the end of the trailer. Marvel could have done the same thing with Spider-Man. Set up his theme and Civil War and then use it in Spider-Man: Homecoming.
I like that theme but I think it could have less cords and more metals.
It sounded out of place on BvS because most scenes in that film came out awkward.
Wow that captain america scene is waaaaayyy better with the music in the foreground
Yeah! Made the scene feel like a great Steven Spielberg moment
to be honest... the cut in this video is misleading. If you watch, the music is played under the narration, sure. but that dialogue is necessary exposition for the film to stand on its own for people that may not have seen First Avenger. Now, if you watch... the EMOTIONAL part of the scene is when the boy sees captain America and cap responds. in this video that ending is cut out during the "bad" example and re-inserted during the "good" example. it is a terribly misleading editing tactic on this channel's part. in the real film, the emotional punch of the ending of the scene STILL has no narration, and therefore the directors do have a proper sense of when and when not to "undermine" scores. just look at infinity war and how there is no score during the most emotional part of the film to add weight/suspense.
the way they edited that example in this video reminds me of the SNL Donald Glover jurassic park lawyer sketch! "play the clip! .....okayokayokaystopstopstop!" lol
Thank you for explaining this frustrating situation so clearly - and for offering a good solution!
Well, someone in Marvel has been watching your videos because Avengers: Endgame had a huge progress.
You can't watch the final battle or the scene in the lake (not gonna spoil it and don't want to admit what this scene was about 😂) without their music so I'm hopeful for the future.
Great video, beautiful analysis and honestly I hadn't even noticed all these before you said it so keep your amazing work coming.
P.S.: Loved the guy in the end!
Marvel saw this video and took notes.
PandamanPandamanPandaman No, the soundtrack was memorable, not the score. Try humming any song from the SCORE and you'll realize you can't think of any at all. The soundtrack (A.K.A. the already existing songs they used for certain scenes) was what was good. The score was entirely forgettable.
they sure did i love thor and thanos's arrivals in infinity war. thanks to that score
I think they did, infinity war had rich scores...
@@sulaimanmhashim BLACK PANTHER
@@lautarovera2205 black panther sucks big dick
somebody send this to Marvel Studio's RIGHT NOW!!!
I'm sure they have seen it by now
No, don't this video is bullshit. He says the theme from Star Wars, Harry, Potter and James Bond are memorable but those are the main themes. Then he complains about the scores from the Marvel movies but ignores their themes.
Whatever agenda this guy has he's not accurate.
+Hello There But even then, none of the songs made for each of the heroes of the Marvel films ever stand out, they're bland, boring and forgettable
That's not true at all. It's just that you've heard the Superman march all your life and you don't care enough about music to listen to them outside of their movies. The Iron Man score is great, very fitting with the character. Thor's entire score is among the best of the MCU. Danny Elfman created a very memorable motif for the Avengers.
Let's hear you hum those Marvel themes then. Don't go back to check to make sure what it is. If you're right and this video is bogus you should be able to hum it right off the top of your head. Just right now in your seat record yourself humming it and get back to us with it.
2020 here and this episode must be, should be in the Hall of Fame, seriously. Still relevant, still solidly true, still exuberantly entertaining as well as illuminating almost 4 years to the day.
That's incredible, I really feel for those composers. Seems like they don't have enough power, they're not being given the freedom to do their jobs and create a story with the music. Gods I can imagine. I draw, and I know well the feeling of being stuck on an existing piece of work. The desire to create 'something like *that*' without any thoughts about *why* or for what purpose, any piece I make just ends up a weak shadow. It's only when I isolate what I like about it and come up with original ideas to evoke a similar response using an entirely original method that I create anything worth a damn.