The Linkwitz LX521.4 Dipole Loudspeaker Review
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- From the mind of the late Siegfried Linkwitz, Tom Martin reviews the Linkwitz LX521. Thoroughly impressed, Tom believes it may be a true breakthrough; listen in as he details its dipole construction, its precise yet vast soundstage, and more...
Tom apologizes for the lighting errors; he filmed this right before surgery and couldn’t re-shoot.
00:00-05:05 What is a "Breakthrough"?
05:05-09:18 What is the Linkwitz LX521?
09:18-20:47 Why is the Linkwitz a Breakthrough?
20:47-24:26 Notes on Proper Set-Up
24:26- How Did it Sound?
About Tom Martin:
Tom is a long-time audiophile. He began his reviewing career after acquiring the The Absolute Sound magazine in 1997 and then hi-fi+ magazine in 2002. He has worked closely with Harry Pearson and Robert Harley at TAS and with Roy Gregory and Alan Sircom at hi-fi+. Since Tom and his teams expanded the TAS and Plus platforms in the digital domain, he has served as Chief Content Officer.
What Is The Absolute Sound?
The Absolute Sound magazine has been a leading publication in high-end audio since 1972. Since the early 2000s, The Absolute Sound has expanded to include web, newsletter, digital magazine, social media, RUclips and Substack platforms. The Absolute Sound platforms have a global audience of over 500,000 audiophiles.
For more show reports, expert reviews, features, and commentary subscribe to our newsletter at: www.theabsolutesound.com
Follow us on Facebook: / theabsolutesound
Substack: theabsolutesound.substack.com
#hifi #audiophile #theabsolutesound 
Развлечения
Heard these at Axpona ‘23 and it was one of the memorable speakers. I listened to about 70 listening rooms and these had such a satisfying listening experience.
@Tom Martin[TAS]: Thanks for the review of the LX521.4MG system that you show here. I feel very deeply that the combination of technologies and design that are represented in the LX521.4MG do indeed represent a “breakthrough” in the history of loudspeaker design. Siegfried Linkwitz [SL] - after re-examining all the precepts “of what makes a loudspeaker perform well” (especially with well recorded stereo recordings) - designed an acoustically small open-baffle ‘dipole’, made with ultra-linear and low inherent distortion drivers from SEAS, that are coupled with an all active crossover using Linkwitz/Riley slopes, driving dedicated amplifiers connected directly to each of the drivers voice-coils. The cumulation of a Form Follows Function [F3] exercise, the baffle shape allows the ear/brain to synthesize the recording hall, and the linear and low distortion drivers allow the timbre and pitch of the (well recorded) source to be expressed/recreated in a very “real” manner. All told, given the right recording, one can approximate what one hears live. Its price performance is exceptional, given the accuracy. The speakers are sold directly at Linkwitz.audio by torch bearer Dr. Frank Brenner, and the costs include all attributes to get them “to your door steps” from where they are built in Germany (to perfectionists standards). What LinkwitzLounges are are a group of motivated volunteers that offer up their homes to listen to these loudspeakers, basically for the skeptical to assuage their doubts, using the concept of BYOM -- “Bring your own music”. Thanks again for taking the time and effort to evaluate the loudspeaker. SL is smiling.
Charles F. Port
LinkwitzLounge “East”
I actually been to one of the designers home to audition these and even in a bad room in a basement they were amazing...
Someone should point out that Siegfried was the "REAL DEAL": an engineer with serious credentials and a life long passion for Audio. Time spent with Siegfried was always "Teaching Moments" to be treasured!
As a long time follower of this brand is great to see it get mainstream recognition.
I would really like to give these a listen to. I have a pair of Meadowlark Blue Herons and never had a feeling I was missing anything until this review.
Great review if the 521! Interestingly a few years back there was a listening session at Mr Linkwitz home and we did A/B switching between the 521 and his LX Mini. It was VERY HARD for everyone there to tell which speakers were playing. For those with less space and budget I'd suggest a listen to the LX Mini. Everyone who has attended Burning Amp over the years will know exactly what I mean.
That’s because both models are mediocre at best.
@@Fluterra guys like you crack me up. You must have rejoiced at the advent of the internet, having a place where you could moan and complain and pretend that people cared.
Have you actually heard these, or are you just kvetching because they lack the snob appeal of $100,000+ speakers?
Tom; Thanks for your review on the Linkwitz LX521.4 speakers, There is a couple of things I'd like to clarify. 1) You don't have to use the power boxes , instead you use their ASP not DSP x-over and supply your own amplification . It was demo that way at T.H.E Show last weekend with great results. 2) Prices include all duties and delivery to your home from Germany.
Sound behind you is something most decent speakers can do if set up properly in the right room. I got rid of my Linkwitz speakers because they were my 7th best listening option. No breakthrough on the speakers but thank you Siegfried for the simplified crossover filter math. His work on the HP8566 was impressive for its day as well.
Tom, one of your best videos to date.
I heard these in Siegfried's home a few years before his passing , IMHO he was just brilliant, his goal was always to reproduce the sound as close as possible to the original source , he did a multitude of tests far away from the traditional methods he focused on how we ( the brain ) perceived sound .
I ended up building the 521's little brothers the LX mini's , my listening room is horrendous ...a big square great room that had standing huge wave issues .., I had Magnepan 1.7s w a big McCormack DNA amp that sounded absolutely superb in the previous home with vaulted ceilings but would not work , no matter how I positioned in this room , my audiophool buddies all told me to forget it , that nothing would work in this space . I setup a pr of excellent stand mount spkrs trying again ...no luck
I believed it was impossible ... Until I heard SL's designs .
My LX minis are just amazing in this very difficult space ,I added a pair of matching subs , I and everyone that hears them think they deliver a lot of the characteristics of the 521's
BIG two thumbs up to SL !
Great review, very interesting..
Very interesting. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (Calgary) I listened to a pair of DBX Soundfield 10's. I walked all around them. To the same sound!! I would love to experience this again. These sound intriguing....
Love your Blue Dog painting above the fireplace--huge fan of his work--- His gallery in New Orleans is amazing-RIP George
GREAT review -MANY thanks! The Linkwitz speakers: a huge visual footprint maybe not but they DO present a huge visual IMPRESSION . . . one that I don't particularly care for BUT since the mind is like a parachute - works best when OPEN - I'd sure LOVE to hear these creatures ! I REALLY like the idea of being "enveloped" by the sound and having the source "disappear" !
I agree that they're butt ugly but they sound very good.
Great review Tom--thank you for saving Absolute Sound during their financial throes--- We all owe HP a lot, in his advancement of the high end due to his insightful observations, etc --- cannot wait to hear these-- - wonder how they would work with Class A, 845 tube amplifiers, would be expensive, but would sound Incredible==Again, Thank you Sir!
Best review ever of this speaker! Feel like I attended a Pentagon briefing 😊.
As a rabid DIYer I fell in love with Siegfried years ago, though I only got around to doing some of his stuff in recent years when I bought a (much cheaper) Lxmini kit from the German branch of the company he inspired. Would have gone with the bigger 521, BUT, ain’t got the space right now.
The other wonderful person in my adventure is Nelson Pass, who came up with a special electronic crossover for the mini. It is a PCB for an Analog Signal Processor (ASP). An ABSOLUTE DIYer’s dream with hundreds of resistors, caps, and jfets. I soldered until I was delirious!
Even the mini, based as it is on plastic water pipe (🤣), does incredible things with imaging and sound staging. Hope you can get around to checking it out. For the faint of heart, the mini also comes as a turnkey system, no DIY involved.
Thank your for a thorough review of the LX521. I was particularly pleased to hear that you found what I believe was Siegried Linkwitz main goal with his speaker designs to be the system's main strength and to an unusual / breakthrough level.
I think that my path to find Siegried Linkwiz was that he was using SEAS drivers that are made just across the fjord from where I live. I followed him for several years, studied his designs and have been really tempted to build an LX521 system. Unfortunately, I haven't got a dedicated listening room that would make the LX521 work.
Several years ago I had to part with my home made "Frankenstein audio monster" consisting of two Duelund Behemoth concrete horns and transmission line midrange and front and rear tweeter satellites hanging from the ceiling. The goal with that was also to bring width and depth to the sound image. For some strange reason, not all family members found that contraption OK to have in the living room.. (!/?) Stuck with an older Focal setup still dreaming about LX521...
Tom
Thoroughly enjoyed your review of the Linkwitz 521.4 system. Sig Linkwitz was a very unusual person, scientist, researcher, and audiophile. I have informally followed Linkwitz Lab developements for many years. I've been an amateur speaker builder and audio afficionado since age 14 when I heard what I thought was the best stereo rig I'd ever heard and instantly I was smitten and had to learn everything I could about HiFi/Stereo "stuff." Enough about me. I truly enjoyed your review of the L L 521.4 system. Your review was key in helping me decide to "pull-the-trigger" on purchasing the kit version of the speakers and probably the Linkwitz Class D amps (possibly the new ATI Class D amps, Hmmm?, Your thoughts?) with the Linkwitz DSP.
I truly liked how you dissected your total analysis into separate discussions of the soundstage, imaging, and sonic accuracy/detail backing up your points with very poignant but accurate descriptions of how and why you were impressed. What I particularly enjoyed was your balanced approach to your analysis while carefully avoiding the use of unnecessary and sometimes destracting "superlatives" all too often tossed about usually by those with less than a truly meaningful level of experience than their superlatives might suggest . I credit you also for simultaneously acknowledging a few specific percieved imperfections, i.e., a comparitive lack of "micro-detail" when compared to (from memory) Magicos, while noting that you were comparing a $17K speaker to a $37K? speaker.
Some of your commentary on the L L 521 imaging re: the speaker's ability to present an almost "larger than life" image with localized musicians either beyond the walls of your room or even originating behind your listening point was reminiscent of a very old 1960s review of the Bose 901 V1 which to some projected the larger than listening room image. Related to that was an article about Amar Bose written several years later, explaining how Bose's actual expertise(and his thesis work as well) was more in psycho-acoustics than in any new scientific aspect of sonic accuracy or measurement. I bring this up because it seems that Sig Linkwitz in his Orion and subsequently the 521.4 has possibly re-defined what is possible in leveraging solid science and technology in transporting the listener outside of their room and into another room more sonically believable as the original recording venue vs the Bose 901experience of bouncing comparitively undetailed sound to present the illusion of a huge venue.
Great review and as noted icymi the asp is fully analogue and there is no digital in the chain pre or post the powerboxs to the speakers.
Personally I use the ASP-v2.1 with the MG lower mid woofers upgrade in a DIY build that’s was the 4th pair built in the world when SL released the design. I use it with an Apollon 8350 8 channel unit with woofers currently in parallel but will be updated to single channels per driver and have a lesser rated amp for the tweeters. I have always used non DSP for all of SL’s builds.
This is the “Linkwitz Lounge” setup in Singapore. I also use the LXmini+2 in same location.
Pure Audio Project 15 with 4 bass 15s each side.. Very complete review… Now I have to hear these… I love the way these produce symphonies spacial depth….
Pardon, but if you are referring to soundstage with the image being in the front of the speaker and to the far left, for that Roger Water album, it’s because the album was recorded on Q Sound which is a recording software that uses phasing to do that. It’s not from the speakers.
Not saying those speakers aren’t awesome. I haven’t heard them yet.
But that phenomenon is the recording of that album. You can look it up. Q Sound Roger waters. And it’s been used on other recordings.
Great review. Cheers
I have to admit, I've been wanting a set of these since I heard them first at Axpona 2 years ago. They are way outside of my means. I'm hoping to build the DIY kit, saving my pennies for them. Thanks for the review!
GR Research Reference system (also open baffle) cost a fraction of this speaker system and I guarantee it would perform on par or better than this system. Sorry overpriced equipment irks me.
This comment thread represents the tangent of my audiophile journey when it literally started in 2020 when I discovered linkwitz audio and GR Research in the same gear. Danny's full open baffle offerings I think are far more valuable and bang for the buck. But that being said this is speculation since I've not heard either system. I've ordered the cabinet for the GR NX Studio. I'll be ordering the drivers/electronic parts for Christmas. Finally can't wait to hear them!
@@lexicon612 No need to feel irked. You may be comparing the cost of the NX-Treme speaker kit (DIY build) with the completed Linkwitz system with amplification (pre-built). When you compare kit to kit, the cost is similar. The NX-Treme kit is $4375-$5228 depending on options. The Linkwitz kit (flat packs + drivers + plans) is $3581. If you add in the ASP for the LInkwitz kit you're at $4580. The prices are right inline. You will need 10 separate channels of amplification for the Linkwitz, which will be more expensive than the two channels for the NX-Tremes, but you're certainly not at a "fraction" of the cost. One also must consider the room required when staring at 7' tall speakers versus a 4' high speaker. I admit I'd like to hear the NX-Tremes in person to compare, but I have not been able to find a set locally to audition. I have had several chances to audition the Linkwitz speakers and they are exceptional.
@@lexicon612 You also have to take into account GR Research recommends adding subs to the NX-Tremes to fill out the bottom end, whereas the Linkwitz have OB subs integrated.
@@budgethometheaterandhifi I could have worded it better...An audition of the NX-Otica Kit 3800.00 ish. would have you saying fraction of also. The extremes would not be necessary to equal this system. Even with sub's still less than half the cost. Making the NX-Otica Kit the clear choice between these 2 options. Feel free to take out that 2nd mortgage though.
Great review! I'm a long time Linkwitz fan and you did a great job describing what he was able to accomplish with his finest creation. The 521.4 speakers are clearly the result of a very gifted man's lifetime of passion and creativity. I currently own the Audio Artistry Beethoven Elite speaker system Linkwitz created in the late 90s that was twice as expensive as these speakers! Although they did include a proprietary 2x4 crossover (analog) that price was without the amps. Linkwitz commented many times that the motivation behind these speakers was to create a more affordable product that performed as well or better than the Beethovens. Although they may not sound better, the Beethovens are certainly much more impressive looking and more beautiful in appearance. What you describe is exactly what I experience with the Beethovens. I don't really think about the sound of the speakers, I just enjoy the musicians performing in my room...
Tom Martin, great review of the Linkwitz LX521.4 speakers and in my opinion, a very accurate description of the speaker’s capability. I’m an owner of the LX521.4 speakers as of a year ago. I purchased the entire kit (baffles, cabinets, drivers, amps, cabling, etc.) from Dr. Frank Brenner (Linkwitz Store) at about ½ the cost of the turnkey system and built/assembled the speakers myself. It took me about a month to complete the build and I consulted with Frank whenever I had questions. He was very helpful throughout the process.
I’m a long term owner and fan of electrostatic speakers and my LX521.4 speakers replaced Martin Logan Expression 13A speakers. In my room I found the LX521.4’s to be about the same in clarity/resolution, but slightly better in dynamics and punchiness than the ML 13A’s. For now, I’m completely satisfied with the switch.
Two tracks that Franks sends to LX521.4 new owners that demonstrate the “magical” imaging Tom spoke about are from the following musical tracks, Track 47 (General Image and Resolution Test) from the CD entitled, Chesky Jazz & More Audiophile Tests, Volume 2 ; and the song entitled, The Ballad of Bill Hubbard from Roger Waters album entitled, Amused to Death. On Chesky’s Track 47 the musicians march around/encircle you three times and exit deep off-stage on the right and on the Ballad of Bill Hubbard, part of the sounds & vocals emanate completely from the side walls, outside the plane of the speakers. It plays with your mind a little when listening. However, when listening to regular music, the LX521.4 is, in my opinion, in a league of its own in terms of musical realism/accuracy and listening enjoyment. With the LX521.4 speakers it truly leaves me with the impression that the musicians/vocalists are in the room playing and singing right in front of me.
That album of Roger Waters is recorded using Q sound which is a 3D way of mixing audio. It will do that on any speaker. Just a heads up. That isn’t the Linkwitz speakers doing that.
I am interested in these speakers however.
Cool, thanks
That room needs a lava lamp:)
Love the content , keep it up.
These speakers look amazing in a home setup. Beautiful
The Alons have a similar holographic sound stage. Just the Alon 1 is pretty breathtaking. My Alon 1's, which I sold (damn), could play material behind you. My reference track for this is from the Chesky Ultimate Demonstration Disc, "Festival Te Deum" holography test. This is a choir recording in a huge medieval cathedral. The mics are suspended in free space in front of the choir and away from any near reflections and there is a huge pipe organ accompanying the choir behind you. On a good dipole system like the Alons you can hear the choir spread out in front of you and the organ behind and above you. This is not a party trick and only happens where the holographic information is in the recording. Its startling the first time you hear it.
Although having said all that, the dipole technology required to pull this off has evolved since probably Dalquist DQ10, 20 and earlier. It's present to some degree on a number of speaker brands like Acarian, NOLA, Von Schweikert, etc. Siegfried and company have been really pushing the cutting edge of this technology for at least the last decade, with the Orions, Plutos, LxMini and LX521 and have been doing so deeply embedded in the DIY community. Now that he's gone, the commercial rights have been sold to the German group which also sells their variation of the kits and completed units. You can get very close to this by building the lxMini+2 kit from either Madisound or Linkwitz (this company). FWIW, this company sells the very beautiful lxsub2 dipole kit to go with the lxmini. If you like the lxMini, but need higher volume levels then consider the lx521 in kit or completed form.
A kit sounds nice 👍🏼
Madisound offers the speaker in kit form with electronic crossover but no amps for about $5k
That sounds great. I have a quad-amped system with an analog electronic crossover and I like to choose amps optimized for each driver.
It is not the same. This has a completely different crossover network and a differet lower midrange driver. The sound quality of the .4 version is very much superior to the earlier version offered by Madisound.
@@5thlevelweb887 What's important is that all of your amp channels have the same gain level.
@@russbutton9347 gain is adjustable via either the electronic crossover or the amps and I use REW to level things out from a phase and frequency response standpoint.
@@johnstone7697 interesting. So Madisound sells a prior version?
“Bass color density” was a great description for the timbre of the bass.
I think we’d all be interested to hear your comparison with Danny Richie’s NX-Otica’s and NX-themes at GR-Research. These have the advantage of being shorter (the NX-tremes are 7’ tall!). But I would expect the GR speakers to win out.
I own ESL 57, great speakers, very easy to live with 😂. On that short list I would add the acoustat x, equally easy to live with. And the dahlquest DQ 10
Considering Linkwitz released the design in 2014 and Peter Aczel reviewed it in his Webzine then, I find it hilarious TAS is just now discovering it and characterizing it as the breakthrough of 2023! BTW, Linkwitz sells the plans, Madisonsound sells the flat pack cabinets and drivers, for l.t.$3ik. If I had the room i would build these myself, put the crossover on my PC on some software like Ekio, use my Octo DAC 8 Pro as the DAC, and buy 4 NC 252s from someplace like Buckeye Audio, and get the whole thing built with a little sweat equity for around $4-5k. Makes a lot more sense than paying some assembler $25 K, new lower midrange coupler or not. If I wanted to further flatten FR down there Equalizer APO or Dirac DLBC would certainly do the trick. And all you'd need is a few wood clamps, some Elmer's glue, some stain to finish the woodwork, and a willingness to put in the work.
Use Titebond 3 glue. Additionally, if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.
Thank you for your comment about the absurdity of this being characterized by Mr. Martin as "a breakthrough." See my extended comment elsewhere in the thread. I wonder if these old guys actually know what they're talking about 😕
@charleslein156 * Quite revealing that you admittedly state that you certainly don't know or understand of what they're speaking about, especially given that the knowledge and application of these technologies have been widely known, discussed, constructed and acted upon for years.
You can simulate location outside the speaker boundary using phasing in the recording
Great great review Tom. I built a set of lx521.3 with an early analog 3-way crossover that I have no desire to ‘upgrade’ to dsp based 4-way since it’s only simple 1st order change between lower to higher mid drivers. I want to stay 100% analog as much as possible. I believe there are two factors that contribute ‘lack of micro details’. 1st cost point of drivers. They are very high quality ones but nothing exotic comparing say Wilson’s. Second, glueing all the DSP class D amps to compact boxes, you will have noise floor concerns just from power supply point of view. It’s simple physics. I used 2-3 high-end class AB multi-amps and I don’t recall I miss micro level details. Also you can buy diy kits from Madisound with choice of active crossover below 4k. Then you can play around different amps. Thanks!
With open baffle doesn't it figure 8 sound dispersion cancel out side reflections? Therefore placement from the side wall should have less effect.
Great, great talk. One mistake...sound is ALWAYS (except in an anechoic chamber) both direct from specific spatial coordinates AND indirect from EVERY OTHER spatial coordinate. Yes, all recording have sound coming from behind the listener. This is another way to say all sounds are omnidirectional. Now moving to recorded, reproduced audio the biggest mistake of most systems is louder propagation of sounds that originally came from the rear or other surround areas--incorrectly coming, apparently from the front of the listener. So while most recordings do not have instruments behind the listener, ALL attempt to produce, what is often referred to as ambience. The sonic world we know is sounds coming from all around us, givings us sonic spaces humans recognize as a church cathedral, small bedroom and all spatial sound characteristics in between. So must audio reproduction. Well done speaker design!! All we need now is a system to measure spatial precision. (comparable to FR measuring resolution)
I'd like to hear some comparison comments to Legacy Audio's dipole Whisper's, if anyone has any experience with both.
How do they compare to magnepans?
So........... is this on par with a multiple speaker set-up, where individual speakers represent Individual Instruments? (bleeding edge audio science)
I have sounds emerging from behind me from a pair of Pearl Acoustics Sibelius as well - it is a phenomenal experience
But it only has one driver
I get that too with a pair of large horns.
Am I right that this review was only put up, and presumably done … just 1 month ago?
The 521 was released about a decade ago!! The .4 was a modest upgrade ~ 8 years ago
It’s been at most of the big hi-fi shows, etc all along. behind the 8-ball is an understatement
And as a couple of other commentors point out, it is NOT a “breakthrough” It’s a development of the fairly similar”sounding Orien, and before that the Phoenix - which came out about 20 years ago
Linkwitz has been one of the most acclaimed loudspeaker designers of the last 20 years.
Where has TAS been??
Stuck up there arse with the Wilson's & Magico's !
I'm only 1/2way through, so maybe gets covered, but may I ask now, how big a room can this system fill?
@madmax7622 my room is roughly 9.5 ‘ H x 15.5’ W x 25” L and the LX521.4 provides all the musical volume I need. The room is for both music listening and home theater.
@@chesterhill5143 Cool, thanks
If I understand correctly, the crossover is an analogue processor, which is (what i assume) the main difference between this speaker set and others, I don't think it's going to be possible to properly swap out tis crossover and replace it with a digital stage crossover for a true AB comparison, but I would be interested to hear what the difference would be with a setup with similar wattage. does anybody knkw if this linkwitz crossover is FIR or IIR?
It is neither being an analog crossover. These analog crossover functions can be realized in either FIR or IIR if you were do this digitally. The down side is that you require 8 channels of high quality downstream DAC. To do so would require significant technical knowledge. Certainly not impossible but pretty far beyond the capabilities of most audio lovers.
Beyond this the lower midrange is a new custom designed unit with far lower distortion. There have also been numerous incremental improvements. Swapping the digital in for the analog would be a challenge since both the crossover on all the power amps are in the same box. The AB comparison has been done by Linkwitz Audio. After careful comparison the analog solution was chosen. It also makes for a far cleaner solution.
Wouldn't you add Yamaha NS-5000 to the breakthrough list for having all its drivers made of the same material?
Breakthrough is new technology or innovative use of existing tech that brings relevant performance improvement AND has the potential to trickle down into affordable equipment - if not affordable to start with.
Diy kit with dsp and amps can make this attainable for under 5k if you're into that
@@parthmadhubhai689 +1, and affordable is a relative thing.... ;)
Gosh, i get a huge sense of width , outside the locations of my speakers which are actually quite close to each other. My speakers dissappear and often I have to check that I'm not listening in 5.1, which of course I'm not cause i'm on a 2.0 stereo setup, but it tricks me often and that's with my baby Vienna Acoustic floor standers.
Talking about breakthrough, the Baach SP
Just build a gr research nx otica or nx tremes for a fraction of the price and 5x better sounding (I own the nx otica and servo open baffle subs, heard this system here at axpona 2023 and it was one of the best at the show but didn't touch the gr research.)
JUst build the LX521.4 kit for a fraction of the cost of the GR Research NX Etremes - just saying
@@sjhorton1184 the kit costs basically what the gr research nx otica costs and I'm telling you first hand the gr research nx otica is far better. Heard the LX521.4 at axpona. Own the nx otica. Just saying.
I like the lx521.4 visually better.
@@sjhorton1184audiophile junkie has gr nx treme as well and sang praises of the linkwitz. Remember the diy kit comes with subs and is 2k shipped, so not really comparable to the oticas as they can't do much in terms of low end. But from there you have to add in dsp (or asp) and amps. The linkwitz is also a lot easier to build from scratch than the nx series. Granted if you can get the files you might be able to get it cnc'd locally. Jason had issues with the delivery of his baffles with his nx treme. I'm guessing you prefer the scale of the nx series due to their line array config?
@@sjhorton1184Of course your owning the NX Ottica doesn't color your opinion in any way.😊
I love drums also and find that most speakers do not do an adequate job replicating them.
If someone designs this speaker into a really nice modern design it would be amazing
Wonder how this would compare to a new YG Acoustics Sonja 3.2
The YG is a "blueprinted" closed box design with fancy cabinet and drivers. Other than that, it's totally conventional in its design with forward firing radiation pattern and conventional soundstage presentation. Similar to stuff from Magico and Wilson.
@@johnstone7697 LOL YG has driver technology way more advanced with a CNC machined aluminum cone that never breaks up
Robert Green TAS article link needed.
Here you are: open.substack.com/pub/theabsolutesound/p/why-do-orchestras-sound-odd-in-stereo?r=1spkqr&
I am not an active crossover guy. The other breakthrough loudspeakers are: Jean Maurer * Ilumnia * Duevel * Gradient * Shahinian Acoustics * Geithain * Wilson Benesch * Lansche * Ova Acoustique * Diptyque * Tokaro * Larsen * Boenicke * Franco Serblin * Aequo Audio * FrontRo * Hora Audio * Kiso Acoustics * Trenner & Friedl * …………….…………………………………
♾️♾️♾️♾️♾️♾️♾️♾️♾️♾️
……………………………………………….
MBL speakers’ stage width and depth can extend beyond the speakers too…
Odd that they are a 2023 breakthrough - when they've been around for at least a decade. And while I think you nailed the description of their attributes, how is it possible that a person so heavily involved in stereo hasn't heard of Linkwitz!?
I highly suspect that it is only the commercialization by Brenner causing this sudden interest. Also think it sispicious that there was no mention of these being intended as DiY by SL. That fact that these are being recognized is awesome, them being recognized now only after there is a commercial interest is unfortunate. Also no mention of the LXmini that cost so much less and share the same attributes? It's like you're intentionally blind to the fact that a guy/gal can make a set of 'groundbreaking' speakers with their own hands for $600 in a weekend.
Thank you for bringing this up. I second that 100%. I met Mr. Linkwitz in 2015, I joined the DIY community and I built a pair of these as well as the Minis using the Madisound kits for a fraction of the cost mentioned here. It changed the way I listened to music and the way I see audio technology forever. I was also annoyed by the industry ignoring him and his designs, when he clearly was onto something and had the proof to back it. I'm glad this video is out, but I'm also disappointed the 3 letters of "DIY" didn't get a mention.
Would love your productions even more if you edit them to 15 minutes max.
It would be interesting to know what Mahler 1 was listened to. I know of only 1 single recording (Inbal/Frankfurt Radio Symphony/Denon) that was made with any "audiophile" ambitions. All of the others have support microphones close to all of the instruments that could be digitally delayed, but destroys the sound of an instrument from a distance by exaggerating overtones and articulation.
In my view, most classical recordings have very "artificial" sense of space and tone. Great HiFi for the audiophile but not killer for those that go to live concerts.
Magnepan 20.7s, Rel Carbon Specials
JLA cr-1 active crossover, Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohms, Nirvana Babe 😊
Total cost please?
You're making a big deal out of speakers reproducing sound apparently outside the width between the speakers, but I've found that this is not difficult for a great many good speakers with (A) the right source material that HAS that information encoded in it, and (B) with proper setup and placement. These speakers may be really good at that, but it's by no means a unique capability.
You know, they say, beauty is the eye of the beholder and my speakers are the Alexia V which I consider to be quite beautiful. So without saying that speaker in my eyes is too incongruent for my living space. And I’m being nice when I say that. That speaker would absolutely have to be mind blowing better for me to consider purchasing it. I’m going to be waiting for another manufacturer to come up with something similar in sound reproduction, maybe in the future that is more aesthetically pleasing. I know there are hard-core audiophiles out there who could give a rats F - - - K about aesthetics and I have seen those rooms. No thank you.😮 Believe me sound is very very important to me. My system is extremely high end already. But I’m always looking.😅 Nonetheless people will find these speakers to be very pleasing to the eyes, and also especially how they sound. Congratulations.😅
+
I see a number of comments about the kit form but they all are missing the point , that they don't have the cascaded ASP or Power boxes , will Dr. Frank sell you the units ? , Well I don't known , I've heard in Kit, DSP & ASP X-overs with Pass Labs amps and the Power boxes form. With Power boxes you will be hard press to find something that will equal let along surpass it for the entry price. Remember, you are getting Speakers, 10 Channels of amplification, and the speaker wires, add interconnects and source and your done, Will ASP with class A amps be better, Well that's your call and pocket book. Remember! kits have NO warranty, your in the wild west , My opinion & 2 bucks will buy you a cheap cup of coffee.
Curious review: Did Franz Brenner convinced you to make this video!? What about the Madisound kits to build this very simple speaker, to ask 20k for this is a excessive,. you can build it with the Madisound plans and original woofers for under 2k! and look at the price of the D class amps and compare with high quality, say purifi and dsp as Sigfried designed it. I really miss you Sigfried Linkwitz in this conversation!
Amp combinations. Great review over all! Been following these speakers for some years. For a driver based system, they do a lot of things right! Vertical and time aligned. Minimal baffle to reduce edge defraction. Dipole to reduce reflections.... You find some of this in different speakers. But seldom all in one.
You mention a slight lack of inner detail at lower levels especially compared to some real high end systems like the Wilsons? But the amp combination becomes a major difference at that point. Especially using Class D amps compared to perhaps some tube class A monoblocks? You kidding me? Someone needs to set up the speaker system with a set of high end amps.
Is there any DSP being done in the Linkwitz electronics beyond xover points and levels?
There is no DSP in the ASP 2.0 or PowerBox - it is an analog unit that controls cross-over frequencies and slopes, notch filters for the drivers and compensation for the dipole bass rolloff (physics of the dipole is 18dB roll off). All of these functions are done with an active analog circuit that then feeds 5 channels of N-core amplification that connects to the individual drivers of the speakers.
Forgot to share that at T.H.E. Show these were paired with Pass Labs amplification to show it could be done: ruclips.net/video/LKqlkwIYVsA/видео.html
@@MichaelAmster Thanks, I thought I remember being told there was some DSP, but likely just the bass compensation. Glad it's all analog!
@@MichaelAmster Not into youtube speaker reviews in general. My PC's system is passable at best. But I will check it out and reply there. Thanks!
@@glenncurry3041 * Wouldn't digital x-overs eliminate timing changes often found in analog x-overs? Simply create individual amps for each speaker ( powered speakers, like, is it ADC that does this?
SAUCE not socks. Awesome sauce.
I’ve heard the Orion, similar bass config, and made many OBs. I’m not zig, of course, but I always ran screaming for a Rel or similar sub. OBs lack bass density.
I’ve had much better luck with Bipole configs, like the old tlb design. 24k$ for that build is ridiculous.
"In 2012, after 10 years, the ORION was eventually surpassed by the 2-baffle, but 4-way LX521."
I guess in loudspeaker design over a decade old is new for some.. (but right there in the intro you lost your credibility and just wanted down, for me. Just to push it as the new shiny thing.) Remember we are in the information era and when for example Andrew Jones and others release a "new" speaker, then it is world premiere and actually a brand new design. Maybe we are spoiled or I am anyway.
Don't get me wrong they are probably my cup of tea as a open baffle(dipole) user for years.
But they have so special look so it is hard to not notice them.
And when you said new I reacted when I have been seeing them for years..😅
So they were borne 2012. Mr Siegfried Linkwitz passed away 2018 and he were a huge inspiration for DIY.
But who is owning, driving and producing those speakers?
I found that it is "EARFOOD GMBH" that started world mark in 2019 LX521.
A foot from the side walls is doable in most listening rooms. But 9 feet from the wall behind the speakers and the listen 6 feet from the wall behind him? You would need a fairly big room to accomplish that. My guess is that most people don't have that big a listening room.
A slighty smaller room would do, but if its that much smaller, look elsewhere.
Linkwitz recommends: 4 feet from front wall (behind speakers), 3 feet from side walls, 3 feet from rear wall. Front wall should be diffusive, rear wall absorptive. If we just quickly assumed 8 feet separation between speakers, the room must be 14 feet wide (or more). If the listener is 1.15x the separation, then the listener is 9 ft from the speakers. Therefore the minimum room is 4 + 9 + 3 = 16-17 ft long. And there is no rule that 8 ft separation is required. So, the min room isn't that big, but it isn't small either. Bigger might be better (we used 16 x 23), so we exceeded Linkwitz's spacing minimums.
He is looking like Eric Clapton. Not a bad thing!
Lets face it, most ALL orchestral recordings are NEVER recorded in TRUE STEREO! LOTS of mono mikes all over the stage managed by an engineer at a mixing desk. Thus, treating a fine concert hall like a recording studio.
A pet peeve of mine for many a year. And where is the Deca Tree ? Always over the head of the music director. Do we listen to that position in a live orchestral performance? I think not.
To me, it is all about SENSATIONALIZING the orchestra and making it bigger, closer with deeper bass then 9 double bassists can manage!, and much more. End of rant.
Oh, BTW, you are facing the FRONT wall correct? The REAR wall is behind you. 😉
I have heard these speakers a few times. They are terrific. BUT if *this* is a breakthrough based on imaging....you definitely need to spend some time with the BACCH DSP. *THAT* is a breakthrough
Tom, I think it's funny and impressive that you spent a 1/2 hour struggling to describe how good this speaker system really is. I'm sure Sig Linkwitz is smiling from audiophile heaven, knowing that his 11-year-old design is now praised as a breakthrough advance in audio! I can't even imagine how many innovations and improvements he could have made had he lived to the present. It's also a sign of good engineering that LInkwitz came up with such a superb product that "only" costs $24K (for the entire amp-crossover-processor-speaker) in an era when most high-end audio designers are racing each other to get to the top of the market at 5 to 10 times this cost (just for the speaker).
GR Research Reference system (also open baffle) cost a fraction of this speaker system and I guarantee it would perform on par or better than this system. Sorry overpriced equipment irks me.
Great respect for GR Research, but most of their products are strictly DIY.
@@lexicon612 How many times you going to repeat this? Enjoy your GR Research speakers!
@@dontcare563 Yikes was like 5. No idea why. MB. And I will TY.
@@lexicon612 First of all, there's a big difference between an "open baffle" and a true dipole speaker. Second, from what I see, the only driver in the GR that's open baffle is the midrange. Your preference is your preference, but a comparison between these two is like comparing apples to oranges.
Like the look of the upper half. Not a fan of the subwoofer part.
DQ10 evolution…Ish…
I want these. I'm willing to go into a certain amount of debt for them. I just don't have the room for them to breathe properly and justify the considerable expense.
GR Research Reference system (also open baffle) cost a fraction of this speaker system and I guarantee it would perform on par or better than this system. Sorry overpriced equipment irks me.
@@lexicon612 I'll never buy Danny's stuff
@@lexicon612seems like you might be fanboying a bit here and jctai you should listen to them before you make up your mind. I've heard the nx treme at Jason's place (audiophile junkie) but for the money and my woodworking capabilities it's more cost effective for me to build the lx521s.
@@parthmadhubhai689 Maybe so but for good reason. Gr Research seems to be one of the very few in high end audio to care say...If a 4000.00 pair of bookshelves Revel has sold you 2 very pretty boxes with 25.00 crossovers. I'm sorry that is the guy you listen to. Amazing someone like that has such opposition here.
if the room and budget precludes the LX 521.4, then investigate the LX mini system for around a third of the cost; they were designed for smaller rooms and budgets. The good news is the tonal balance, imaging, soundstaging and depth is nearly identical to the big brothers. I do recommend you add the subwoofers to the LX mini and you'll have the same sound but for smaller rooms.
For that kind of money I'd expect it to NOT look like some high school woodshop project.
Wonderful looking speaker, but with young kids it is a no go.
ha, they can’t afford it anyway
I get the same characteristics from my Polk Audio Legend 800’s for $6,000.
I also get the same characteristics from my Eosone RSF1000s. However, these are different. You really have to hear them in person to get the full effect. It really is shockingly good.
@@budgethometheaterandhifi I also think you need to hear SDA.
@@xsmi I have. It's very different. I have not heard the Legend 800s, I have heard SDAs from the original line. I have a lot of love and respect for Polk. These are different.
@@budgethometheaterandhifi I know they are. I’ve heard the open baffle as well. I guess I just prefer what I have now.
@@xsmi To each his own! That's the journey. Cheers.
ACK!
So, I guess I'm gonna be the only guy to not gush over this problematic review. Here goes -
Something about all of this is confusing me...I recall reading a review in, of all places, TAS, back in 2019 or 2020. The review was covering the latest groundbreaking offering from the esteemed Von Schweikert Audio. The reviewer gave a nice, but not comprehensive, explanation of Albert's work and pioneering design concepts. That same reviewer has gone on record stating that Mr. Linkwitz spoke with Albert about work he was doing on crossovers etc., WAY back in the day, and congratulated Albert on how innovative his work and ideas were.
VSA then began producing speakers that incorporated those "groundbreaking" ideas, long before Siegfried produced transducers which incorporated those same basic ideas. Seems to me that this Linkwitz speaker is only now pulling off all those cool tricks that Albert's speakers have been offering for, according to just my humble experience, at least 20 years now.
(I owned the VSA VR4 Mk III HSE speakers, and now own the VSA VR5 Anniversary Edition speakers, which both implement those "groundbreaking" and "innovative" ideas which even Mr. Linkwitz recognized as new, fresh ideas prior to 1980. I can tell you that, if Mr. Martin has "never heard" a speaker up until the present that can image well outside of the speaker's physical limits, then he has yet to hear many VSA speakers, and some others which I have heard pull off this cool effect).
Sooo..my question is, how can Mr. Martin characterize as "groundbreaking" and a "breakthrough" a speaker design which VSA has been producing and refining for some 20 years now? Did he do his due diligence? Does he know his history about this early interaction between Siegfried and Albert, and the possible implications of it?
One more point - it is not my intention to be mean or petty, but rather, to highlight what I see as a chronic, persistent problem in our hobby, a problem which TAS may be (unintentionally) perpetuating:
Fact: our hobby is desperate for more younger participants to keep the flame alive when we old guys die off. Truth: RUclips is the place to find and appeal to such a younger audience. Reality: Of all the choices TAS could have made to moderate a large majority of said RUclips content, they pick a gentleman who not only looks like my great grandfather, but talks and emotes like him. "Welcome, boys and girls"? While perhaps not intended that way, that just comes across as incredibly patronizing. "Esteemed viewers"? Come on guys - I'm 60, and this just is so cringe-inducing and anachronistic.
Sorry, but in this esteemed viewer's opinion, Mr. Martin is far from "ready for prime time."
You lament the imminent death of our hobby resulting from it becoming an old man's pursuit . Yet, your response is to have a stuffy old guy condescending to any potential younger visitors to the channel.
Just my observations. Am I crazy, or does anybody out there get what I'm saying?
Background music is too loud when you’re talking
Sounds like an open back headphone.
The correct phrase is .. could NOT give a rat's whatever. It's a similar expression as .. I could care less / Or correctly state.. I could not care less (since you don't care at all)
Open baffle flavor
hope it sounds better than it appears...it looks homemade...
Originally it was sold as a kit for diy enthusiasts who wanted to build speakers that competed with cost no object speakers
@@parthmadhubhai689 but in 2023 it costs $24,000...it's looks should reflect the price tag..
@@DrBroncanuus You can actually obtain the kit and plans to build it yourself to this day for under $2300. From there you will need a minidsp flex 8 or you can buy an ASP and get 8 channels of amplification. The minidsp files with prebuilt crossovers can be accessed with purchase of the plans ($145). I say all of this because one of Linkwitz's goals is to still have this be accessible to the masses. As mentioned in the video the baffle shape was purely functionality not aesthetics and went through 20+ renditions.
Also lets not kid ourselves...$24k is considered "cheap" for full range 4-way system with amplification....especially when its being compared to systems (not just speakers) that are 10x the cost. I bought the plans a few weeks back and going to place an order for the drivers in the coming weeks. Hoping to have them built by EOY.
@@DrBroncanuus Pretty unfair if you haven't seen it in person. The build quality of this is not DIY by any stretch. If cosmetics are what you're after, go buy a Wilson Audio product. You'll pay a lot more and get a lot less sound quality.
They would sell a lot more of them without those wings on woofer baffle.
Then it wouldn't sound as good.
@@analogkid4557 I am not talking about removing the entire baffle, just the sharp angles. I guarantee you that those sharp points do not improve the sound, regardless of what anyone claims.
@@Mark-rw3kw He design it that way very specificly.
@@analogkid4557 Specifically for "what"?. Anyone who knows anything about speaker design, knows that sharp edges in a baffle or cabinet causes diffraction. If he wants to sell them to married guys, he needs to offer a different baffle. Just slightly round off the sharp edges, and it isn't going to cause an audible problem. The whole idea of this design is eliminate the cabinet.
@@Mark-rw3kw it helps with bsc.
Have much experience with this loudspeaker. And honestly its far from my cup of tea.
If they're not your cup of tea, why did you continue " experiencing " them?
No, it's not a break through. Most speaker designers are idiots, and this guy didn't fall for as many gotchas as other designers do. I would say the smartest thing he did was make that quasi H frame woofer cabinet instead of doing an open baffle woofer. But there are still a number of mistakes. Not flush mounting the drivers and failing to round the corners is costing him among other things.
$ 24k is a bargain
Bass colored density...😂
While a great "all-arounder" it's not even close to a breakthrough.
Not a fan at all. I think they are so ugly and cheap looking, and I hate the use of DSP - adding another conversion to and from digital is a bad bad idea… at least for a world class system. When the speaker is $1000 or less, OK, it makes sense. But these cost about $25k - there are a LOT better options at this price point.
There is no DSP in this design.
@@d408naplesEvery Linkwitz uses DSP and active crossovers
Of course there is. Every Linkwitz uses a miniDSP active crossover.
You need to show Donald Trump what a man's hands look like! Sorry I just had to say it.
nothing to see here, just another crazy expensive speaker, it's just jewelry
Bose 901 is the same fffing thing. Garbage.
You must a special kind of stupid to even think that the 901 is anything remotely near this.
Yes, the 901 was the first direct/reflecting speaker. It threw a soundstage the complete width of the front of the room, images wider and deeper than the speaker plane. Remarks were "it sounds like they are right in the room with you" and "the speakers completey disappear" and "They make everything else sound trivial - like the Bose were the truth and the light and everything else is trivial."
Bob Carver's line array speakers far surpass these speakers. Also Carver's Amazing loud speakers gave this type of soundstage in the 80's
29:35 But Tom when you are 60+ you absolutely cannot have the same hearing response... perhaps what you hear on the Magico are an exaggerating frequency response.