This is the foundation for a key part of Amy's character - she loves her "Raggedy Man" and loves traveling with him throughout all of space/time. However, she loves Rory down to her bones, and if it comes down to a choice of life without Rory - Amy will choose anything else. Too many people see Amy as using Rory as her backup guy, and that's just not true. I think that losing so many people has made Amy very hesitant to talk about her feelings, where Rory doesn't have that problem BUT it's the two of them forever for each other, no matter what. And that's one of the main reasons Amy is one of my 3 favorite companions.
iirc Moffat once said that he regretted the scene at the end of Flesh and Stone where Amy tries to sleep with the Doctor, and I completely agree with him
Behind-the-scenes information, no story spoilers below: Steven Moffat has stated in the past that he regrets writing the scene between Amy and The Doctor at the end of Flesh and Stone. He wishes he hadn't tarnished the beginning of Amy's story with the "Love Triangle" as you call it. This episode and the prior episode were a swift reset button to put her and Rory's relationship in a solid state so they can continue writing from there and not continue any love story with The Doctor.
I wasn’t aware of this. It really made me hate Amy, in part because Rory is obviously a treasure. But I could see conflict coming via Amy wanting the doctor’s life (which she’d waited for since she was 7), and Rory wanting Leadworth. No need for the issues in Flesh and Stone
Yeah I agree, the love triangle and tension between choosing the Doctor and Rory storyline would've naturally existed wether or not we had that scene at the end of flesh and stone. All that scene did was remove any doubt that Amy was a shitty person, yes she grew and chose Rory in the end of this episode but I never could like her after that, if the genders were swapped it would'nt even have been a discussion but Amy gets a pass.
One thing to know about future doctor who - you're going to love all of it. Also you'll miss all of them too. That's really all you need to know. I've watched all your DW reactions so far - and it's been great re-living all the old episodes.
I've seen this loads of times but it's first time I've noticed the line from Amy about the 'really bad amateur dramatics society' putting on Oklahoma. Twelve years later, Arthur Darvill starred as Curly McLain in the West End revival of . . . Oklahoma! I've seen him in that, another musical, and a straight play at the National. He's a really good actor and a fantastic singer.
Such a fantastic episode. Fun fact for Mr. CNR (or any other Who fans who didn't know this already) the description of the Dream Lord is almost identical to another villain from the classic era of Doctor Who called the Valeyard. He's described as a manifestation of all the evil and wickedness in the Doctor, taken from some vague point in his own future. MANY fans picked up on this in relation to the Dream Lord and assume it's a connection, although sadly they never follow up on it in the Moffat era. It isn't the only (supposed) reference to the Valeyeard, though... “My experience is that there is, surprisingly, always hope.”
This is a big episode, showing us more about each character. Amy’s Choice. I feel like this is one of the most important character episodes in the series. Plus those old people. Awesome. (And I’m an old person)
While Karen’s current social media silence probably indicates she’s given birth already, this (and somewhere into season 6) being released two months ago and early means you got to react to the storyline while Karen was pregnant IRL. You can imagine when she announced how many “You swallowed a planet!” comments she got. EDIT: Her baby’s named Clementine! Just announced!
There are a few moments in Matt Smith's acting where you can see that Amy's choice wounds the doctor, even though he knows it's the right choice. Even if he would never act on it, the part of him that likes to be adored still on some level enjoyed the fact that she wanted him, and his darker self smirks at him when she chooses Rory, and you can see his sadness. Lovely acting and directing.
"Rory's going to be around a while." Then he gets dusted. :P RE the love triangle, remember that the first thing The Doctor does when he realized there is a chance things are going in that direction is crash Rory's stag party and steal him. The Doctor is Rory's wingman. If that doesn't say something about your character, nothing does.
I never saw this as a love triangle, I think Amy sometimes just gets cold feet before big decisions or huge changes. It's not everyday that you get to travel around worlds WHILE ALSO being able to not leave everything behind. It's all there, when you're ready to got back. But this is something that helps build companions character, they grow with the Doctor and start to learn that their everyday problems aren't as big as they think. Think about the difference between Rose's first season and then her second season. Martha kinda didn't bother about her family problems and eventually left the Doctor for them (and herself too, which is also a plus). Donna was always a treasure, and it's a shame she forgot everything in the end, but she was becoming SUCH a character before the ending of Journey's End. We as viewers can only expect to see a similar growth / development from Amy too.
This is probably my favourite episode of the season, though The Eleventh Hour is also excellent, as is one of the episodes yet to come this season. Simply put I love the idea behind this one. Incidentally this episode aired almost two months before Inception, so it beat 2010's other big dream-related story to the punch!
the 'extra points' you mentioned, is from an old series of movies that they keep remaking, called Death Race. and in the older versions, they were in a post apocalyptic world racing across the country, and hitting kids or old people who happened to be near or on the raceway were worth bonus points in the popularity standings :P
This is one of my favourites of this season but not my favourite. That is still yet to come! Also, I love Toby Jones in this episode (he's the voice of Dobby).
I've been hoping ever since this aired that Toby Jones would come back as the Dream Lord. First off, he's an amazing actor, and he's on full display in this episode. Secondly, it's such an interesting "enemy" considering how it's left off. If it is actually just that pollen creating a connected dream state for them and it uses darkness to play against you, the Dream Lord is a terrific "enemy" when the Doctor is about as dark as it gets. Sadly, I doubt very much current Doctor Who will ever bring back Tony Jones or the Dream Lord (technically anyone could play the character, right?) but I suppose you never know. I know Toby Jones has said he'd love to do it again, so there's that. Easily my favorite episode of S5, other than the first episode and the finale. So well written, and I just love Toby Jones.
I think if someone will manifest Doctor's darkness then it should be another actor. Toby Jones is excellent but this was a manifestation for Eleventh Doctor, not some entity. Different Doctors - different rules, and different viewpoints on their darkness.
@@alexeyvolkov7590 Exactly, that's why I said any actor could conceivably play the Dream Lord, I just personally would like to see Toby Jones back because I love him as an actor :)
@@LordLOC It's the same as returning the actor who played Doctor for another incarnation. And yes, I know RTD did that and I really don't like it. We shouldn't get stuck in the past. Although if Dreamlord would change forms several times during the episode, one of them could be played by Toby Jones
@@alexeyvolkov7590 That'd be a nice way to do it sure, having multiple forms in the episode (or episodes) and one of them being Toby Jones so the Doctor realizes who it is finally or something along those lines. And I don't mind so much mining the past for the show (or any show) as long as it's done in a good way and not just for "memberberries" as it is called these days. Picard S3 did it well (but did go a bit overboard in places lol) though I do agree shows and media should be moving forward more, but I'm old and I like seeing stuff from the past sometimes lol
I really wish we could get the Dream Lord back again -- such a good antagonist -- but that doesn't really seem likely (or even plausible, which is really saying something considering the nature of this show!).
In retrospect ive always wished that the dream lord had been retconned to be an incarnation of the Master in future seasons, but i do like the way the episode pans out. The enemy isnt even an enemy, its just a natural phenomena that creates monsters out of peoples subconsious fears. The dream lord is literally just the Doctors mirror, and he clearly doesnt like what he sees.
This is one of my least favorite episodes. Not sure why. Unlike other episodes I don't like, there is nothing I HATE about it. I like the guest star, the idea seems sound. But I feel irritated watching it, like it isn't quite working for me.
“My boys. My poncho boys. If we're going to die, let's die looking like a Peruvian folk band.”
I frequently quote this randomly for no reason 😂
No one hates the Doctor more than the Doctor
There are a surprising number of characters in media for whom this is a true statement.
A friend of mine had her wedding reception in that village. The Whovians on the guest list had a great time exploring "Upper Leadworth".
This is the foundation for a key part of Amy's character - she loves her "Raggedy Man" and loves traveling with him throughout all of space/time. However, she loves Rory down to her bones, and if it comes down to a choice of life without Rory - Amy will choose anything else.
Too many people see Amy as using Rory as her backup guy, and that's just not true. I think that losing so many people has made Amy very hesitant to talk about her feelings, where Rory doesn't have that problem BUT it's the two of them forever for each other, no matter what. And that's one of the main reasons Amy is one of my 3 favorite companions.
iirc Moffat once said that he regretted the scene at the end of Flesh and Stone where Amy tries to sleep with the Doctor, and I completely agree with him
Behind-the-scenes information, no story spoilers below:
Steven Moffat has stated in the past that he regrets writing the scene between Amy and The Doctor at the end of Flesh and Stone. He wishes he hadn't tarnished the beginning of Amy's story with the "Love Triangle" as you call it. This episode and the prior episode were a swift reset button to put her and Rory's relationship in a solid state so they can continue writing from there and not continue any love story with The Doctor.
I wasn’t aware of this. It really made me hate Amy, in part because Rory is obviously a treasure. But I could see conflict coming via Amy wanting the doctor’s life (which she’d waited for since she was 7), and Rory wanting Leadworth. No need for the issues in Flesh and Stone
Yeah I agree, the love triangle and tension between choosing the Doctor and Rory storyline would've naturally existed wether or not we had that scene at the end of flesh and stone. All that scene did was remove any doubt that Amy was a shitty person, yes she grew and chose Rory in the end of this episode but I never could like her after that, if the genders were swapped it would'nt even have been a discussion but Amy gets a pass.
One thing to know about future doctor who - you're going to love all of it. Also you'll miss all of them too. That's really all you need to know. I've watched all your DW reactions so far - and it's been great re-living all the old episodes.
"It looks like Rory will be around for awhile" lol
What’s a Rory?
I've seen this loads of times but it's first time I've noticed the line from Amy about the 'really bad amateur dramatics society' putting on Oklahoma.
Twelve years later, Arthur Darvill starred as Curly McLain in the West End revival of . . . Oklahoma!
I've seen him in that, another musical, and a straight play at the National. He's a really good actor and a fantastic singer.
It’s the first time I’ve noticed it too! He won the Olivier Award for the role of Curly in Oklahoma!
@@markiecamden Well deserved too. He was bright and carefree one moment, the next chilling and menacing in that famous scene with Jud.
This episode shows why Moffat regrets the Amy Doctor kiss from ep1. Amy and Rory are each-others other 😊
Such a fantastic episode. Fun fact for Mr. CNR (or any other Who fans who didn't know this already) the description of the Dream Lord is almost identical to another villain from the classic era of Doctor Who called the Valeyard. He's described as a manifestation of all the evil and wickedness in the Doctor, taken from some vague point in his own future. MANY fans picked up on this in relation to the Dream Lord and assume it's a connection, although sadly they never follow up on it in the Moffat era. It isn't the only (supposed) reference to the Valeyeard, though...
“My experience is that there is, surprisingly, always hope.”
This is a big episode, showing us more about each character. Amy’s Choice. I feel like this is one of the most important character episodes in the series. Plus those old people. Awesome. (And I’m an old person)
While Karen’s current social media silence probably indicates she’s given birth already, this (and somewhere into season 6) being released two months ago and early means you got to react to the storyline while Karen was pregnant IRL. You can imagine when she announced how many “You swallowed a planet!” comments she got.
EDIT: Her baby’s named Clementine! Just announced!
There are a few moments in Matt Smith's acting where you can see that Amy's choice wounds the doctor, even though he knows it's the right choice. Even if he would never act on it, the part of him that likes to be adored still on some level enjoyed the fact that she wanted him, and his darker self smirks at him when she chooses Rory, and you can see his sadness. Lovely acting and directing.
"Rory's going to be around a while." Then he gets dusted. :P RE the love triangle, remember that the first thing The Doctor does when he realized there is a chance things are going in that direction is crash Rory's stag party and steal him. The Doctor is Rory's wingman. If that doesn't say something about your character, nothing does.
Toby Jones is wonderful in this episode
He plays antagonists so well.
He does charismatic creepiness beautifully
Rory: ‘She’s just an old lady’
Chris: ‘Nope, she has a green eye in her mouth’
17:36 love this moment.
Enjoyed your reaction to the episode as usual.
I never saw this as a love triangle, I think Amy sometimes just gets cold feet before big decisions or huge changes. It's not everyday that you get to travel around worlds WHILE ALSO being able to not leave everything behind. It's all there, when you're ready to got back.
But this is something that helps build companions character, they grow with the Doctor and start to learn that their everyday problems aren't as big as they think.
Think about the difference between Rose's first season and then her second season. Martha kinda didn't bother about her family problems and eventually left the Doctor for them (and herself too, which is also a plus). Donna was always a treasure, and it's a shame she forgot everything in the end, but she was becoming SUCH a character before the ending of Journey's End.
We as viewers can only expect to see a similar growth / development from Amy too.
Live fairly close to those castle ruins, none of the houses or village is in the same area. 🙃
what is the name of the castle? where is it located?
The magic of tv.
Your mom used to say 'Extra points'? My dad did that, too. Methinks your mum saw Death Race 2000.
I thought it was GTA. Never played either, so I’m probably wrong.
yay another reaction....loved it but I will say the next episode was my favourite out of season 5 :) subscribed so I don't miss them much love from uk
This is probably my favourite episode of the season, though The Eleventh Hour is also excellent, as is one of the episodes yet to come this season. Simply put I love the idea behind this one. Incidentally this episode aired almost two months before Inception, so it beat 2010's other big dream-related story to the punch!
the 'extra points' you mentioned, is from an old series of movies that they keep remaking, called Death Race. and in the older versions, they were in a post apocalyptic world racing across the country, and hitting kids or old people who happened to be near or on the raceway were worth bonus points in the popularity standings :P
“For a little while” you got it buddy!
How ironic that this episode reaction is going up on RUclips on the very same day that Karen Gillan gave birth to her baby, Clementine 🙂.
No she announced the birth, she implies she was born in 2024
@@DigiRangerScott Well the announcement then. Sheesh, pedantic much?!?! It's still a cool coincidence.
I actually saw a video where she was pregnant almost immediately after watching this and yes, many of the comments referenced swallowing a planet
Yesterday, I saw/heard Karen Gillan (Amy Pond) just gave birth to her very first child!
Little Miss Clementine! 🤗🥰💖
Again, thank you.
Again also, RORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYY! ❤
This episode is amazing
yyyasss i've been looking forward to this!
10:11 no spoilers for season 6 but bare that thought in mind
fun coincidence over on patron the black spot and the doctors wife have just been posted today, so he just recently watched that ep
This is one of my favourites of this season but not my favourite. That is still yet to come! Also, I love Toby Jones in this episode (he's the voice of Dobby).
I've been hoping ever since this aired that Toby Jones would come back as the Dream Lord. First off, he's an amazing actor, and he's on full display in this episode. Secondly, it's such an interesting "enemy" considering how it's left off. If it is actually just that pollen creating a connected dream state for them and it uses darkness to play against you, the Dream Lord is a terrific "enemy" when the Doctor is about as dark as it gets. Sadly, I doubt very much current Doctor Who will ever bring back Tony Jones or the Dream Lord (technically anyone could play the character, right?) but I suppose you never know. I know Toby Jones has said he'd love to do it again, so there's that. Easily my favorite episode of S5, other than the first episode and the finale. So well written, and I just love Toby Jones.
I think if someone will manifest Doctor's darkness then it should be another actor. Toby Jones is excellent but this was a manifestation for Eleventh Doctor, not some entity. Different Doctors - different rules, and different viewpoints on their darkness.
@@alexeyvolkov7590 Exactly, that's why I said any actor could conceivably play the Dream Lord, I just personally would like to see Toby Jones back because I love him as an actor :)
@@LordLOC It's the same as returning the actor who played Doctor for another incarnation. And yes, I know RTD did that and I really don't like it. We shouldn't get stuck in the past.
Although if Dreamlord would change forms several times during the episode, one of them could be played by Toby Jones
@@alexeyvolkov7590 That'd be a nice way to do it sure, having multiple forms in the episode (or episodes) and one of them being Toby Jones so the Doctor realizes who it is finally or something along those lines.
And I don't mind so much mining the past for the show (or any show) as long as it's done in a good way and not just for "memberberries" as it is called these days. Picard S3 did it well (but did go a bit overboard in places lol) though I do agree shows and media should be moving forward more, but I'm old and I like seeing stuff from the past sometimes lol
I really wish we could get the Dream Lord back again -- such a good antagonist -- but that doesn't really seem likely (or even plausible, which is really saying something considering the nature of this show!).
I loved this episode
Ooh. Do you read comics as well? I'm obsessed. I have about 40,000. It might be slightly out of control
Marvellous!
In retrospect ive always wished that the dream lord had been retconned to be an incarnation of the Master in future seasons, but i do like the way the episode pans out. The enemy isnt even an enemy, its just a natural phenomena that creates monsters out of peoples subconsious fears. The dream lord is literally just the Doctors mirror, and he clearly doesnt like what he sees.
You know about the Valeyard?
This is one of my least favorite episodes. Not sure why. Unlike other episodes I don't like, there is nothing I HATE about it. I like the guest star, the idea seems sound. But I feel irritated watching it, like it isn't quite working for me.
That’s how I felt about vampires in Venice I always skip it when I rewatch doctor who but I like this episode better
Still work better that RTD did in the 60s aniversary.