Just To Clarify Overwhelmingly Powerful Floodgates aren't the only problem. An Equal Case Can Be Made For Generic Omni-Negate End Boards That Can Interrupt You 8 Times. Or The Disparity Between An Older Deck And The Hyper Consistency Of New Decks That Release. Perhaps We Can Talk About Those In The Future?
Thank you for this comment. A LOT of combo players in general refuse to admit that spamming the field full of generic omni negates is 100% just as unfair as floodgates
So I will say that I don't think floodgates are "inherently" bad for the game; but I do think it's because of how STUPIDLY OP the modern game's speed/meta has been for awhile. It bleeds into the decks too cause I feel like most new archetypes are just engines that have a bunch of effects that bounce off each other to lock your opponents lol.
Sadly I feel the same way, grew up with the game in grade school and middle school. Wish to continue it but it's gotten to a point where it's monotonous
Same here. I will always cherrish the franchise with all my heart and continue so. But I can't support how broken the card games has been getting. Wish they would fix that. But I highly doubt it.
Exactly. The only reason they cry about it is because their super ultra meta decks isn't winning anymore and they can't play their 18 card 6 minute board combo. And the fact that this word "toxic" keeps getting thrown around says more about the people saying it than it does with the people using those cards. They always want to limit or ban something that's stopping their deck. It's dumb.
Floodgate is toxic as well. Modern day Yugioh is just at a point that no matter what happens the game isn’t fun anymore. It’s just a stew of toxicity. People complain that Floodgate isn’t fun to play against but neither is loosing on the second turn. Floodgate is a by product of Modern Yugiohs poor Meta. The game needs to slow down or it’ll forever be in this stalemate of Toxicity.
"Why don't we bring lesser decks up..." Because that is how we powercreep into more degeneracy. You bring the meta down, so the game can be slowed down. I don't have fun doing 15 card combos to end in 3 omninegates. I would much rather have each player play slower decks. And as you mention, a big problem is just the amount of negates available or "needed" in the game right now. I can't play a lesser deck if I just get negated and my turn is over. It is just as bad as a floodgate.
Just look at yubel. Yubel used to be shit but after support became a top tier strategy and people hate it. So it’s like no matter what you do yugioh players will just cry about something else.
@@unsungangel7269 exactly. Learn the game. Play the game. Be ok with not winning all the time. Have fun with it. And be smarter than the average meta player.
I'd much prefer playing against Floodgates if they also have to grind out the game. The floodgates i can't stand are when they set up a huge board and then floodgate me.
Plus, what makes it even worse if I'm somehow able to out their entire board it is no point they can easily recycle all the necessary cards just to set up the same board again.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I just wish it didn't feel like you *have* to play either meta or anti-meta. I just wanna build a deck around a cool archetype or monster :(
That's just how the cookie crumbles when you're playing a competitive game unfortunately, it isn't just like that with YuGiOh (although with YuGiOh it's amplified because of the speed of the game and power of top strategies). You can play rogue decks but you're trading the power for the unfamiliarity your opponent will have with your deck and you win that way. It isn't going to be a win rate like you're playing snake eyes, but if you're playing something wacky than people aren't going to know what it's end goal is and you can cheese wins off of them that way lol
In master duel you actually could, in gold rank or lower 😅 also, within the middle and end of season, so that the sweaty meta users already in Plat or higher rank
The fact you look at both sides of the discussion makes me appreciate the video a lot more. Not just advocating one side, actually looking at both. And honestly both side's complaints are easily boiled down to one thing in the end: "I can't play the game". I wish we could return to the old days with battle phase reliant multi-turn back and forths, where 75% of modern day handtraps would barely do anything because it was just normal summon, attack (optional), set cards, pass.
But you're living in a dream world where that didn't happen outside of kitchen table yugioh, it's always been like this from yatalock onward - the community.
1999 Exodia FTK was tier 0. OCG also had many OTK and FTK decks and many lockdowns. There was no such thing as kitchen or playground ygo being the main thing
This is from someone who quit YuGiOh years ago, at the rise of LinkMonsters... But IMO what ruined YuGiOh for the majority of the casual players was search effects becoming dominant. Sure, of course it boosts consistency and you don't need to find a way to make the cards in your hands work... But I think that was the beauty of YuGiOh up to 2008 or so, you had to work with the cards in your hand with some very limited ways to get what you wanted to make your strategy work... Nowadays it is more about just working up plays over and over around the same cards that you have way too many ways to get to work.
For me its the unfairness of meta decks that have less to no locks or restriction, and high summoning flexibility Look at tear, snake eyes, fiendsmith. They just keep coming back! Fusion route blocked? Okey go to link, and let the snowball rolls again. Its just unfair when ash, nib, ghost, cant even reduce their endboard product
@@Dz73zxxx I do agree with that too, the meta decks, and honestly even rogue strategies just have way too many ''this that and those'' pre-set plays. I might be saying this without that much of an insight into modern yugioh, I did give it up, I only watch matches now, but every match has the same-ish strategy. Play this, get that, search that, send the grave, yada yada repeat. It's almost like duels are scripted now. You don't work around what your opponent has, you just do your own play and it is already premade to counter about anything possible.
@@linkaiser8709 That just about sums it up. Maybe not in a nutshell, some are a wee bit different, but it does a good job. Another big issue I'm not seeing mentioned is the Extra Deck. The Extra Deck is a nightmare, going from being something to get your big bad boss out to just a deck you can nab whatever card from as long as you play a singular card that goes "ye just get whatever the hell you're running out" It doesn't need search, it's very generalized, has loads of effects, and is absurdly cheap. The game basically has 3 decks now, two of which you don't need to search (graveyard and extra) and one of which you just search without consequence.
Solitaire players: "You're what's wrong with this game!" Anti-meta floodgate players: "No, you're what's wrong with this game!" Decks with neither of those card types: "Why can't we just have fun anymore?" People on the outside with no cards: "How is this game still here?"
I think that omni negates are even more toxic than floodgates. You can play around floodgates way easier if you are willing to hit the consistency of your deck a little than having something that essentially goes "oh you want to use this? Nah mate one of my 70 negates say no try again in the next duel". Honestly omni-negates and one card starters need to go away if floodgates are to go. We can't just have every deck just go "I barf my entire deck in one turn now deal with it!"
Well you can say the same shit qbout omnis. Run dark ruler or droplets lol just make your deck less consistent. And no omnis are not worse because they are one for one trade floodgates are everything for one trade. Omnis can be god awfull to play againts if there is a critical mass of them but there isnt right now
@@mateussoares3569let’s not go chicken or egg here. End board negates are a problem but I’ll take that off floodgates. I blame one card combos for that honestly
"You can play around floodgates way easier if you are willing to hit the consistency of your deck" Yeah, that sounds good in theory but is practically impossible haha
I think something people just need internalized at this point is that yu-gi-oh, at its core now, is all about making sure your opponent can't play. Doesn't matter how you get there, that's just the name of the game though
The game has gotten too fast and too consistent to let the other guy get a damn move off. That's why the best opening hand is usually 1 15 step combo starter that does everything you ever want to get your entire board off the ground. And 4 handtraps.
Yeah, I’ve made a blue-eyes deck with some meta cards to prevent playing. Two of each of these, Ash, imperm, called by, ghost ogre, effect veil. I run drowning, quaking and storming mirror forces, magical cylinders and magic cylinder. It’s real heavy on the stun/floodgate, that’s part of the reason I built a bare bones 40 card Blue-Eyes tribe deck, it’s a little more fun than the Meta deck. My modern-meta Blue-Eyes is a little too unfun from an interaction point for my opponents. Usually by the second ash, or first called by they quit. Even after seeing the actual archetype and thinking they have a chance. Which, arguably in certain cases, they do. They don’t call it “Brick Eyes” for nothing.
I like watching DuelLogs Failed Archetypes and 9 times out of 10 the reason a Deck is featured there is "It's too slow," "Can't set up a board," "Can't play through disruption," or "Doesn't let you interact with your opponents board/disrupt their plays." The other 1 time being When/If or a Lack of a Boss/Theme. But damn. If I can't win without just boxing my opponent out of the game, then I'm not interested.
I have an idea for an “Anti-Annoyance” kind of card that’s designed to play around Summon and Effect negations: _I WILL NOT BE DENIED!_ Counter Trap _You can Pay Half your LP to activate this card from your hand. If your opponent Negates your Summon/Set of a Monster(s) and/or your activation of a Card(s) or Effect(s); Apply 1 of the following effects; then shuffle this card into your deck._ _⚪️Normal Summon/Sets during or Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower Monster from your Hand, Deck or GY._ _⚪️Set 1 Spell/Trap from your Hand, Deck or GY._ _⚪️Draw 2 cards._ _You can only use 1 “I WILL NOT BE DENIED!” per turn._
Good card idea. Mine is more of an effect type, if this good effect is negated, a second one happens. There is a monster which negates 2 or 3 times. Iirc
Floodgates ruin Yugioh yes, but do you know what else ruins Yugioh? How fast the entire game has gotten. In my opinion, the game feels WAY too fast. Stuff happens way too quickly and thus it doesn't feel like you're playing a game, you're not interacting with your opponent. And for any of you who say "Oh just play GOAT format", I shouldn't have to be forced to play a different format just to play a slower, more interactive game. That's why I've moved on from Yugioh [I still support you TGS because these anime duels and analyses into different aspects into this game is fun to watch] to Magic the Gathering, its given me that slow-paced gameplay that I've been wanting.
It is more of a case if "you can not have two things", you can get interactive back and forth games if, and a vey big IF, both decks are on the same level, a.k.a Meta vs Meta, the issue of being unable to play arises when you also want to play a beloved themed deck be it something old or something new but not good enougth , so you either play something that is not your favorite and get an interactive, intense game, or you play what you like to play and is not competitive and just do not get to play at all. ( If you so happen to genuinely like a meta deck, well those are exceptions and may they be happy playing their decks)
No they don't. They're banned solely because it stops the toxic meta sweaty decks that OTKs and locks down other players from even playing the heavily one sided game and it doesn't matter who goes first. You're fucked as soon as the first turn starts because the special summoning and searches/draw effects get abused more than Johnny Depp did in the last 7 years.
The sad truth is that nearly everything in YuGiOh! has become toxic. The constant power creep is so insane that fair/balanced cards just do not get played, because they are simply considered "bad". In the end do all successful decks try to keep the opponent from playing. Whether that's through floodgates, (omni-)negate boards, one card combos to be paired with 3+ hand traps, a simple OTK, Kashtira with their zone locking or even Tearlament which starts a new 5 minute chain every time you dare activate an effect during your own turn (and the latter two aren't even considered meta-relevant, despite how insane their effects sound). With YuGiOh! having no resource system, it needs an incredibly careful approach to balancing - which gets immediately thrown out of the window because product management trumps game management. I really enjoy breaking boards or baiting the opponent's negate. What I don't enjoy is needing to play the one or two current meta-decks which are the only ones able to play through the other meta decks' slew of negates and protections. Which then also need cards costing hundreds of dollars.
For me i do enjoy working around floodgates, at least the more basic ones. Omni negates i do find demoralising though. Both in principle ‘stop you playing’ but one i see as a puzzle. The other is someone slapping your card out of your hand saying nope.
Its the same thing but the omninegate is way harder to counter since the opponent has the choice to do it anytime. I dont think omninegate is that unfair unless its something generic like barrone or borreload where anyone can bring it out. Then its still a puzzle, you just need to trick your opponent into negating something so you can finish off the full combo required to take back control of the duel
First I love your content and your overall view and opinions of Yu-Gi-Oh both anime and card game. I also love that you are not one of those mindless meta-sheep such as mbt, farfa, deezef, and other prominent I believe the term is yugitubers. By Meta-sheep I refer to their unwavering opinion that the Meta game was, is, and should always be the way Yu-Gi-Oh is played and that anyone who would play (like me) what they would call a 'rouge deck' has no real skill in either playing Yu-Gi-Oh or building a deck in Yu-Gi-Oh. Not to get in an off topic rant but where is the skill in deck building when you see a deck win a major YCS title and then you the 'pro Yu-Gi-Oh/yugituber player' copies card for card their deck and then goes around pretending to be great God tier skill Yu-Gi-Oh player and chastising those who would dare to play a deck that you and your fellow meta-sheep aren't playing or a deck specifically built (which actually takes research and skill to build.) to counter their Meta deck. But to the point I was going to comment on. Your central point seems to be (and honestly I haven't watched the entire video yet. I paused it to leave this comment, so it's possible that later you explain something that completely invalidates this entire comment and that's cool.) that floodgates are bad because they prevent the opponent from executing their intended strategy or win condition thus being unfair to the opponent. Yes I can definitely see your point and it has merit I don't dispute your position at all, I half agree with it. However, on the other side of the unfair things in Yu-Gi-Oh coin. You have the usually meta driven 'set up a unbreakable board on turn 1 so that on opponent turn 1 they are completely unable to counter or actually play the game in any way at all's giving that so great and skilled meta-sheep player a no effort free easy win. I would list and show all the ways I'm speaking of, but I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of every Yu-Gi-Oh card ever made to use in any given situation and I'm on a phone watching your vid so research would be way to insufferable lol. But I will point out two examples (and remember I don't off hand know every card used and in what order they are used to reach the end position of their combo or strategy.) first is a raidraptor boss XYZ card that says it cannot be targeted for effects, it cannot be destroyed by card effects or battle, and if an opponent uses an effect it can be negated by detaching a material (which through rank-up XYZ cards it can have more then 6 material attached to it) and that negate option isn't once per turn, it's as long as the XYZ has a material. The turn 1 player plays his deck setting up a monster that essentially locks the other player out of even getting a turn 1. The other meta-sheep fav right now is the (again I don't have access to what exactly the cards are called, but I can partially explain the mechanic if it) on turn one they summon out various monsters that have the effect of being summoned from grave and being placed in spell/trap zone. When they are placed in the spell/trap zone they can add a ritual monster card or a card that mentions the ritual monster on it from deck or grave to their hand. When that card is added to hand it can be summoned by a monster on field effect or placed in spell trap zone. then the player summons out the ritual boss monster. Then P1 attaches the spell trap zone monsters to the monsters on field and ends turn.(all the monsters used have 0/0 attack/defence.) On player 2 first turn they can quit because they know that they actually have no reasonable means of winning at all. P2 can try to set up their strategy and summon a monster but once they do P1 will activate a card effort that allows P1 to take control of a monster, stopping and planned effect so P2 ends turn. P1 turn 2 they either tribute P2 monster to give them a high attack monster and then enter battle phase attacking with a 0/0 monster into a 2400 monster. The effect of spells and monsters attached to P1 monsters is that opponent takes all battle damage from the attack and that the attacking monster cannot be destroyed by battle, and it cannot be targeted by a card effect when attacking. Thus giving P1 the win. There are many, many, many other examples I could list but I've spent too much time on this novel I'm writing here lol. My point is yes I use floodgates such as fossil dyna, there can be only one, gozen match, Royal decree, moon mirror shield, black garden, soul levy, imperial order, synchro zone, and others not to prevent you from playing the game. Heck there are ways around my cards listed and if you bypass them I'm screwed good game you win congrats. No I am forced to use them so that I can hopefully have the opportunity to play the game I love past my first turn and maybe just maybe with the heart of the cards draw the perfect card to defeat a great player.
I mean...we say that Floodgates "Nerf" meta decks and "We shouldn't bring "good" decks down so older ones can compete." But if that meta deck was really that good, why cant it play around/through/out the Floodgate? If you can't be Meta because Rivalry of Warlords is on the Field, slot in back row removal, vary up your Monster Types, do something. This game is simply too fast and too unforgiving (and arguably unfun) to not be kneecapping Tearlaments at every on-field opportunity, cause given the chance they will lock you out of the game. If were gonna say "Skill issue," to peoole who wanna play Dark Magician, Gustos, Toons, etc. fine, but lets keep that same energy when Macro Cosmos, Imperial Order, etc. are on the field and your deck is a paperweight. If not, then something has to slow this game down, cause this 4 Turn-Duel Era is NOT it.
I like it when they make new support for older archtypes or even make very old vanilla monsters into a new archtype (Memento for example) but sometimes Konami makes decisions that create an underwhelming experience. I really like that Ancient Gears got new support and the new cards are pretty fun but a few still have to include not being able to set cards if you activate a specific effect and some still can't be special summoned. The Transcendosaurus archtype is a really cool idea and I love when new Dinosaur cards are added but their effects aren't super unique and have a very specific requirement if you want to use their effects to revive them.
But they won't they need that Money $$$ FR like Master Duel is just gonna be Master Drool until they just either Bring All Decks up or stop making New Decks that just easily Overpowers the rest of the Archetypes
Again, not the problem. It's the unlimited special summoning that kills the game. Once you limit that shit down to one per turn, then these metas will stop.
Imagine they made a New Master Rule where now you are just Limited on your Summons like since Nibiru is a think you are only allowed to Summon up to 7 or 8 Monsters Per Turn like make it Fair enough man!?
I fully agree. I can't play it anymore cause of the over obnoxious summons. Soon as I see a person walk in with 30+ cards in is extra deck I quit. That's stupid.
Floodgates are the only thing that makes yugioh remotely playable at this point. Being able to summon 5-10 monsters a turn and then have them negate everything your opponent tries to do is what killed this game for a huge portion of players.
Exactly. It's what killed my joy in the game. I drop Mistake and it's gives me and my burn decks a fighting chance against the modern meta of a player drawing their whole deck in a turn.
TBH the thing I noticed about those that hate floodgates are the ones who typically play Meta or OTK decks and hate it when their "end duel in one turn" 'strategy' can't work and give them an instant win. That's my experience anyway...
LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER. Floodgates and such make decks that were already less than teir 0 to 1 pretty much unplayable. Good luck playing a for fun deck when some bozo pulls up with floodgates for no reason lol
FACTS. It's the number one thing I also noticed. Time and time again. There are so many cards that literally stop floodgates while they're active, before activation and afterwards. So the complaint about them just means they're not privy to what the rest of cards do in their library of cards. The game is literally built around there not being one card to rule them all. It's how you build the deck. Period. Don't like floodgates? Then add floodgate stoppers in your side deck. Which is what you should be doing anyway. Js
I personally dont mind Floodgates too much, but then again I was joyusly blessed with having a best friend who would almost always play some form of control or stun deck(Thunder Dragons and Salads back in their prime) while I sat there and struggles with my hero deck(back when the best play was Trinity OTK). So I just kinda got use to them.
Interesting observation regarding the heroes floodgates. I didn't know it had so many. At the very least 1 of 2 of them has been powercrept out. Dark angel is just bad to play now. Congrats, you stopped your opponent from using spells, at least until they take the free material you gave them for a link summon and use it. Not sure how good Cosmo neos is. Seems bad, imo, being so reliant on getting neospacians to the field, but maybe I just don't know how good that archetype is now. And the plasma is good, but needing 3 tributes and only having 1900 attack with no protection...he's kind of easy to get over. I play a heroes deck and half the time I can't even get him out because I'll only have 2 tributes on the field alongside my end board monsters. Dark law, though, that I can understand people taking issue with. Super easy to get out, and locks off the gy. Devastating for some decks.
I feel similarly as a hero player. Dark law I would say is at least semi-understandable as it only has 2400, and nowadays it seems a lot of decks seem to have monsters that SS themselves from hand and have 2500ish. Ran a bunch of duels in the duelist cup, WITHOUT going into dark law while going first, and just got obliterated on repeat, even through my full combo. I started next duel with dark law, and FINALLY started to see some slow down. Almost feels like a requirement for heroes
Yugioh needs to balance its effects by having conditions be needed. For example Cyber Blader has cool effects that change depending on the amount of monsters your opponent controls. Having a condition contingent on whats on the field helps. Feather duster may not have been as ubiquitous if Harpie Lady was needed to activate it.
I just wish they were more balanced especially skill drain to make you pay 1500 each rune to keep it on field. One and done basically makes it unstoppable for trap decks or stall decks. This way the time limit is fair.
I think the real issue is generic summoning conditions... no boss monster is locked into its deck like the old ones. Quasar, Blazar, calamity, etc. are all generic and can be splashed into ANYA synchro deck... Monsters need to be locked into their archetypes, and a lot of this can and will stop outside of the old floodgates. If you have to pay reasonator/ree dragon will you want to play calamity?? Probably not This is why i quit EVERYTHING is splashable. To a degree, especially the extra deck, thats where yugioh went wrong and needs to clean up..
And to konami's credit They are trying......after 25 or so years of the game Yeah, only NOW are they banning apo, barrone, savage but yeah...i see your point
"Flood gates are bad because you can't stop them unless you have the response in hand to counter them. However, I like having high speed counters and responses in my deck to counter my opponents cards: they could stop me if they just have the response to my cards in their hand." Your argument sounds like, to me, "your [oppressive] fun isn't fun unless it's my kind of [oppressive] fun."
I agree with you as well. Yu-Gi-Oh was far more fun when It was a back and forth tug-of-war kind of thing. Where the next card could be your last, and my some miracle heart of the cards luck or math and probability being in your side you draw the perfect one card that can save you. For example I'll go waaaaay back and set this up. Your opponent has destiny board with I-N-A on board and they end turn. You have 30 of 40 cards left in your deck and only 1 of them is mystical space typhoon, dust tornado, heavy storm, giant trunade etc etc etc. if you draw it you have a chance to play and win if not opponent wins next turn. The tension and excitement was what made Yu-Gi-Oh so much fun. Now it's 99% sit and watch opponent on turn 1 set things up so you have a mathematical 0% chance of winning.
@@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099Yugioh was never really that. You just didn't play meta when you were a kid Meta back then was hand ripping. Good luck winning when on turn 1 your opponent has already ripped 2 or 3 cards out of your hand
They need very specific hands to do what your describing. Having seen old top tier decks, they still averaged 5 to 15 turns. Yes the game can end in the old days within 2 to 3 turns but even back then it was far from standard and literal factorials more inconsistent. Yu-Gi-Oh has optimized the fun out of itself and is a very common problem for choice heavy games that promote efficiency and synergy.
@@PlayWithThatBlackGuy yeah I did on occasion play the meta. I played the Yugi dark magician, I played the kaiba blue eyes, I played the joey red eyes. I also on occasion would play so called rouge decks like burn, mill, destiny board, exodia, and later god card decks personal fav was slifer. The back and forth I was speaking of was allowed and usually the case for the first 4-6 turns of the duel. Not always there were times by my turn 3 I had no real chance of winning due to cards opponent played and that was fine. The back and forth aspect was enabled by the fact that it took 2-4 turns to get your boss monster out, your ideal spell/trap set-up ready, your game controlling monster effects on the field. When I was spending 2-4 turns setting things up, you my opponent had 2-4 turns to either stop or delay what I was trying to do long enough to get your strategy established. You had those turns to set up your strategy to defeat me. Maybe I had a counter on field like a mirror force or torrential tribute or something else to counter your play or maybe I didn't. Now Yu-Gi-Oh isn't about that strategy, that mental game of chess to counter your opponent. No modern Yu-Gi-Oh is all about winning on turn one, making sure your opponent cannot make any moves or plays, to turn what could take 5-20 or do minutes to win into winning within the first 30 seconds of a duel.
I think Floodgates are fine if... you can only have one activated at a time, and subsequent "neither player can ____ while this card exists" activations then overwrite the previous floodgate's effect. I don't think we should go full oldschool Field Spell rules with it, each player should be allowed their own Floodgate really, but I do think allowing players to lock their opponents out of multiple ways to play the game at once is just plain unfun design. Though I am a filthy casual XD
"Super Starslayer TY-PHON - Sky Crisis" is also a popular card that have floodgate effects, but banning it kinda defeats the whole reason of its existence against "Divine Arsenal AA-ZEUS - Sky Thunder"
They are a necessary evil annoying but without them there would be no game with the games extreme speed i support anything that makes the game last more than 4 turns.
I think there should only be protection type "floodgates". Basically there shouldn't any cards that stops your opponent from playing cards or using effects but stopping from your monsters being attacked or destroyed is fine. Though Floodgates are just one of the many problems with current Yu-Gi-Oh!
Hot take: generic Omni negates are floodgates. They stop your opponent from doing something but the owner chooses when Floodgates wouldn’t be a problem if there were less generic boss monsters. Yugioh went from a combat based style game to a OTK game where you play solitaire. So many boards end up on the same generic field and different archetypes still end up on the same cards. Make archetypal boss monsters and diversify the game, get rid of broken generic monsters and then ban floodgates, oh and Omni negates
I've had several replies to comment I made on this video or replies to my replies to others comments that are either insulting of me or are brain dead 'well git gud' type of idiocy. To sum up modern Yu-Gi-Oh I will ask you to play a game with me. The rules are very simple, I toss a coin in the air. If I can call it wrong you win $100, however if I call it right I win $50. Would you play the game with me? But there is something you don't know, the coin I am using has two tails no heads and I always call tails. How long would you play that game with me, how long would you try to win a game that you functionally have zero percent chance of winning ever, how long would you tolerate losing before you give up and walk away? Modern Yu-Gi-Oh the modern so called meta game has turned Yu-Gi-Oh into that coin flip game. If you go first you win and nothing the opponent can do will change that. The proverbial deck is stacked against them even before the decks are shuffled and cards drawn. How long would you play this version of the game before either you mortgage your house to get into that tier 0 you have at least a 50/50 chance of winning if you go first Deck or you realize that eating feeding your kids or keeping the lights on is more important then paying an outrageous amount of money for cardboard with pretty pictures on it that will let you have a realistic chance of winning.?
So I was thinking about similar stuff. So let me present you my fixes for YGO (remember this is similar to the video a general hit so some decks needs to be adjusted): 1. Ban generic floodgates, Archetypal at one (same as the video). 2. Ban generic draws and bosses (self explanatory Barone was a mistake and so were the Pot retrains). 3. Limit all Bossmonsters (here the first exception becomes apparent as decks like Salad would just die when you do this). 4. Ban „one card“ bridges (so ban Closed Heaven is banned, Yama is banned, but Exciton Knight are still legal. Basically generic archetypal links that are too easy to summon but also cards like Banshee that get you 1 card bridges like Corridor or Flag, in which case its a case by case scenario). 5. Limit HT to be only be activatable if you control no monsters. 6. Ban generic OTK tools (like Accesscode or Topologic Zeroborus). Sure some decks would be nerfed to oblivion (like Unchained [Yama and Tourguide banned, any Soul card limited, SP banned Unicorn limited also just one Caesar and no Zeus]). However we then could start to think about how to either balance out those banned cards (like requiring Yama an Unchained card). But also we can see how decks adapt to these changes. Like in YGO there are so many little synergies that can be substituted in (like Bystial Runick or Branded Tear but also more obscure stuff like Bird up or Labrynth D/D Unchained). YGO would become kinda like finding the perfect synergies to squeeze out the potential of any deck. Also it would allow a cardtype to finally see play that couldn’t see play before and thats the recyclers. Lab Setup for example or other cards similar to it would see play. So the game would also revolve around setting up your engines in such a way that you recycle one of them while the other keeps you alive. Btw all I mentioned would still leave a lot of decks in a too powerful position (like Lab would still have Daruma and Rollback as well as Arias. They would just loose 1 Angel 1 Lady and if you really push it you could ban Ariane; similarly Ritual beast would just loose Shifter, but they wont have to worry about droll and they would loose Banshee into Flag into Protos but they still could go into a Gryphon next turn. They also loose Apo, SP and IP but their main engine is basically untouched). So yeah this isn’t perfect but a solid start. Thanks for reading this text wall. Do you have questions? Ideas? Leave a comment down below and Im happy to elaborate/discuss with you. Have a nice day AEther
I don’t play yugioh anymore but I think it’s way pass fixing this issue. Floodgates are needed against the endless torrent of SS that the game encourages now. If you just keep the floodgates, that’s toxic. If you just keep the SS gameplay, that’s toxic too. Konami would have to ban a majority of cards from the last decade at this point.
But they won't if anything they probably might endorse it later like Konami is just on $$$ Mode at this point the only way to have them know you dislike their Decisions is to just NOT PAY vote with your Wallet not with your Fanservices.
@@ninjabros6282 i haven't played for quite a while. maybe close to a decade? not sure. but once SS and negates started becoming extremely prevalent, i stopped playing at all.
Thing is that floodgates don’t fix this problem, they’re only useful going first, minus the few hand trap variants. They also result in boring games where the opponent literally can’t do anything, unless they luck into the right card. Hand traps deal with this problem better as it generates interaction between players, though even they’re struggling to hold back the power creep
@@waylander9265 hand traps weren't nearly as strong as before i quit. so i can't even pretend to speak about hand traps being a useful or not against the SS heavy style.
Just turn everything into a Turbo Duel, speed counters being a resource force the game to slow down by making stronger effects more costly to activate and flood gates not being as rampant since they can be categorized as powerful effects that cost more speed counters.
I agree certain Floodgates get too OP at times, however I dunno If this is just me but if we banned every Floodgate/lingering floodgate effect then it wouldnt stop there. We'd ban generic omni-negates and then finally negates all around. I do agree that if we banned all floodgates Konami would be forced to make control/rouge/older decks stronger but then that's also a problem. Remember Kelbek, Agido, and Mudora? yeah those were old ass Dark Crisis anime cards that became uber OP and 2 of those cards are banned now. Or an even better example Yubel. Rn its gotten stronger and ppl are askin for cards in that deck to be hit as well. I may be an yugi-boomer for sayin this next thing, but I like floodgates because yugioh isnt like how it was in 2005. Everything is turbo fast now so having cards that say yall cant do X thing is a needed thing in modern yugioh. Instead of banning them all maybe limiting them is a good middle ground as lomg as they arent searchable.
I think every criticism you can lobby at floodgates you can also use against decks that set up boards with multiple omni-negates. As such I don't really understand why the popular opinion is "floodgates, bad! Mass negation, good", they both accomplish the same thing (stopping you're opponents from playing the game). I do agree with point that older/rogue decks should be receiving support to raise them up rather than using tools to bring more modern/better decks down. However it must be said that philosophy is dependent on Konomi releasing support for them and given the vast numbers of older decks to support it's just not feasible to expect that EVERY deck will receive support. With that in mind; if a particular floodgate can help an under-supported archetype compete against whichever behemoths are dominating the meta at that particular point in time, that helps take away the onus to support an archetype from konami and places it in the hand of the player. And frankly, being able to pilot an older archetype to victory consistently shows good deck building skill
I wish Master Duel had a ‘Play cards only from 2000-2010’ Just to give old battle city vibes, and to give more non meta evenly matched duels. I can’t even remember the last time I tribute a monster 😂
I feel like part of the issue of people wanting to play fun nostalgic decks and the modern super speed of the game could be resolved with officially sanctioned formats. Like more than 15 people would play GOAT or Edison if they were an option on Master Duel. And then Konami could even make money by reprinting those old cards to support those formats for real life tournaments.
On another topic, have you ever done a 'could roman Goodwin (the final big bad of arc 2of 5d's. The giant dark signer/crimson dragon holding guy) have defeated crow, jack Atlas, and yusei fudo' episode?
Negate or omni negate made me stop learning modern game, I just couldn't keep up with the old meta n the new meta, every time I try to learn something theres a new negate that everyone have n if I don't play first I'm done
I placed YGO back when floodgates existed but weren't overly common. What got me out of the game was the absurdity of turns where you can play through 1/3 of your deck in a single turn and shut off your opponent. That is less fun than having to deal with 1 or 2 floodgates
I’ve said it once and I will say it again: Yugioh needs a fluid banlist that changes depending on other cards in your deck. Thunder Dragon Colossus should be banned unless you are running many other thunder dragons in your deck as an example
floodgates arent the problem, thats on you if you dont play a backrow removal, hand traps , spam special summons, links, spam adding cards and generic once per turn negators are the real problem
I'm sorry but yugioh it self is a flood gate game now, set your bored up first, you win nothing anyone can do, so now half your deck has to be hand traps, and one card starters.
I quit ygo around the start of the xyz era. Seeing how the game is nowadays I definitely left at the right time for me. I don't like the idea of watching your opponent play solitaire for ten minutes unless I have enough negates or floodgates to stop them then i just win.
I thought when people create a full board of Omni-Negate monsters,traps, and Spells with the 1 turn summoning of all that was a floodgate. One of the reasons I didn’t enjoy playing Master Duel much because it got annoying to deal with almost every battle. I just want to play my HEROES deck 😭 Edit: I am just learning more of the hero cards that was mentioned in the video… wtf??? When were they added?? Though I doubt I’ll use them considering they probably not on master Duel anyways
I always felt like the game could've tried an "Archetype Only Meta" era for a bit. Keep cards within their own archetype without too much cross pollution between the crazy engines that makes the decks too strong. Idk, maybe it could've worked, maybe not 🤷♂️
Here's my take on floodgates: they're a necessary evil to keep combo decks in check, just like handtraps. They're only real a problem when the combo decks can search them as part of their end board (Such as sending it to GY with a card like Beatrice and using another effect to set on the field) or if they're Mystic Mine.
I will never forget when I used Witchcrafter Draping to bounce Mystic Mine back to my opponent's hand over and over, and after I won the duel, my opponent flamed me for "relying on a single spell card"
why do we need to nerf op decks? simple they are to fast i preferseing fdloodgates over sitting there for 15 minutes becasue i lost the dice roll and see my enemy just wombocombo
Floodgates sometimes cause me to lose in Master Duel but I manage to overcome them. I would like to see a video on your thoughts about floating effects and if you like the or not
Wait what? Just based on what was said around 12 Minutes in. You say the solution to wanting to play an older/non-meta deck is to abandon it and play meta. Vs. The solution to floodgates being draw the out or scoop. The way you talk about it Floodgates are worse, but I mean come on. One of those is making me draw a removal card, the other is telling me to drop what i'm playing entirely and use an archetype or playstyle I wouldn't enjoy. Not saying they don't both blow. I will say I've never been as frustrated by a Skill Drain as I have Omni-negate boards. EDIT: You say that nerfing decks to the level of older/non-meta decks isn't the solution. Elevating decks is... But isn't a common complaint about modern Yugioh it's speed?Wouldn't nerfing decks return the game to a more back and forth slower paced exchange? Look I'd just vote for whatever has turns not take 3-10 minutes, personally.
I can see that actually. I got back into it recently and noticed that. So i built a deck around just stopping those decks. And guess what? They complain and call cards "toxic" or "unfair" or they cry about the floodgates. Which puts a smile on my face that im destroying the "meta" prolific decks.
This a joke right? 😅. How bout no more 20 min combos and Konami would finally get a taste of that sweet sweet boomer $$. Floodgates have answers. Plus 5 boards and negatives don’t.
It more of the players problem can’t blame everything on Konami No one tell people to use or support these cards Not everyone wants to be a yugioh boomer
The whole game personally feels like you get floodgated at all times... you just have to wait for your opponent to play 20 cards for half an hour before we get there... if you have a floodgate it just expedited the 20 activations wait...
Honestly, I really wish Yu-Gi-Oh had stuck to keeping things relatively simple. Not introduced like 20 different summoning mechanics, made the game all about stopping your opponent from doing anything and removed the key part of the game itself. Namely monsters battleing and using spells and traps to power up yours or weaken your opponent.
@@soukenmarufwt5224 Where did I say we should've stuck to 1999 Yugioh? I'm saying the game is just a mess at this point and should've have to tried to make everything more complicated with all these new mechanics and elements.
Different summoning mechanics is what makes the game more interesting, imagine 20 years later, and people are still playing tribute summon, it would be super boring.
@@blackwhirlwind1245 We already had Normal, Tribute, Special, Fusion, Ritual and Synchro. Now we have Pendulum, XYZ, Link. Did we really need 9 summoning mechanics?
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 it has been many years without new summoning mechanic, link is the last one. It seems like Konami has stop making new summoning mechanic for a while. Xyz is kinda boring, because you just use 2 monsters of same levels, link is very good design, because it has arrows that points to.
instead of banning the cards that slower decks need to keep up, i think Konami needs to take a page out of bushiroad's book, and add "choice restrict" to the banlist, this addition will stop the toxic combinations that crop up. For Example of a choice restrict: Number 33 Chronomoly Machu Mech & Phantasmal Lord Ultimal Bishbalkaan (you can only have of either in a deck, not both). Bishbalkaan got on the banlist for the crimes committed by Number 33 (it essentially found another partner for the ftk).
YES!! Someone else who also plays Vanguard that also thinks this needs to be implemented! I've been saying the same thing! Choice Restrictions NEED to be a thing in YGO. Example being Snake-Eye. Make it an example to, say, restrict "Snake-Eye" cards and "Fiendsmith" cards from being used together (and add "Azamina" to the pile as well post ROTA). That way, you wanna play Snake-Eye? Well tough shit, you get ZERO Fiendsmith cards AND ZERO Azamina cards to use alongside them. Or as you said, choice restrict generic bosses. Like, Baronne and Savage Dragon. You get one or the other, NOT both. But YES! THIS is what we need to see implemented. Almost guarantee it would make things SO much better if this was a new addition to the banlist.
My honest opinion.... Floodgates can kick rocks man. While I do understand each engine type has its play style and alot in some way lock you up or prevent you from affecting their board but when you literally play cards that lock me out on turn 1........ or when you activate stuff during MY turn and lock me out.....Alllllrightyy asshole, "forfeits" . Like its just stupid stuff like that, I think each player should be able to get a first fair turn out if anything. Then like you said, when i actually make sacrifices and do some strategic tricks around them and win...Ohhhhh does it feel so satisfying.
Skill Drain and Summon Limit should be Unlimited. Just ban lingering floodgates like D Barrier, D Dimension Ground, Harpie Storm, EEVirus. And bs like Colossus and Protos.
I don't like Floodgates but with players using Maxx C and both Mulcharmies, a lot of us mains here in OCG "summon limit, skill drain and there can only be one" just in case the opponent uses another one after you ash or called by the first one or just stop by the first one and then set readying to set up on opp's turn, that is if your deck can remove this floodgates like Snake-eyes or White Forest which can use this floodgates as a cost when it's your turn again
I would argue its more toxic sitting there going second watching your opponant go though half there deck on the first turn setting up multible hard negates and your 1-2 handtraps where not enough then to just not being able to do much of anything Floodgates are like just another way of adding negates onto the board and realy are not nearly as bad as ppl claim currently they where once super OP and busted and i think ppl still remeber them in that way but playing against some of the modern day decks we basicly still get floodgated via all the monsters on the opponant side of the field that can provide very powerful effects and instently win you the game.
While I don’t disagree that floodgates are a problem, I think there are ways for them to be better for the game. One is as others have mentioned and give them a maintenance cost, and one that I think is worth considering is to give them a restriction that prevents the user from activating other floodgates at the same time. Also, I think it’s worth considering that nerfing the best decks is something Konami does already (it’s called the Forbidden and Limited list). Another consideration is that just buffing weaker decks constantly is a quick road to power creep.
3:04 -Whole heartedly agree! Some of my greatest sucesses with this in Duel Links is woth unconventional dekcs they are not expecting. I cant tell you how joyful it has been lately to use a penquin dekc and watch them realize how fucked they are for spamming two copies of book of the eclipse, three copies of book of moon, cracking, mirror force, etc. Everything bounces. Things get banished. I fet a jab in with nopenguin and they cant do much. Nevrovalley can be a slight danger but if I get out Nightmare Penguin or focus on defence first I can usualy remove it or stall them out if nothing else. Nothing more satusfying than seeing a broken ass Blue Eyes deck spam the newer fusions and alternatives only for evetything to get bounced to banish.
I only played competitive Yugioh from 2011 to 2014 I think. I stopped playing right when Pendulum starter decks first came out. You know, when Cyber Dragon Infinity was the hottest card. So I'm VERY out of date with things. I keep up from a distance but still. It's probably pretty cliche to say this, but I think Yugioh was more fun when it was a trap heavy format. A slower grind style game. Sure, OTK decks existed like Karakuri or Hieratics, but things were pretty chill. Now in modern Yugioh, it appears that a top 8 table decides games on turn 2. That is stupid imo. Games that start and end that fast aren't fun. You may as well just being playing literal poker at that point. As for the topic of floodgates, we saw plenty back in 2014. But they were also somewhat limited to a specific handful of them, and since the game was backrow heavy anyways, main decking 2-3 MST was common. So it was all OK for the most part. My problem with floodgates today is that their purpose isn't what actually happens. They are meant to slow down crazy fast/powerful decks so others can catch up. But power creep seems to be so problematic that these very same decks can actually USE them rather than be hindered by them. Or their own theme has a built in plan B to get around their only weakness. I also think handtraps are bad. You want to play "traps" from your hand? Go play MTG then. But what do I know. I'm just an outdated player so, oh well.
2:27 -Agreed! The abilty to side deck is a boon in real life but thats not a viable option for me anynore. I dont even bother with Master Duel but even Duel links gets so toxic. Its the exact same thing with people maxing out on the most broken floodgates they can with the current bankist and just putting them in any of the top tier mirror match decks they chosoe at the time. Its so annoying. You get no chance to play again if they get three of those suckers in their opening hand. This is especially true id you go second. You get the card disadvantage and have to set up something or they will kill your filed and attck fir game that first turn if you dont play conservatively, they still will likly get you in the following turn becayse they crushed all your resources just attempting a defence. Its aggrevating and there are times doing PVP duels qhere im compeltly knocked form my ranking simply because I "won" the coin toss tend freaking times in a row and set up for failure by going first until I dropped a rank. Ive also had times where people will draw all three copies of Cracking on their first turn. People say its crazy to argue the odds are not fair but I feel its true. The coin flip and draw odds are NOT equal and it obly makes this more aggrevating. It gives such an advantage to people running broken floodgate reliant decks. 2:38 -And yeah. This is espeiclalt bad too. I hate having ti sit there while they take freaking five minute turns, then on my I get them interupt with floodgate or Cracking and have to pass to them. Then they spend the next five minutes flexing just so they can attack with an easy staple XYZ. They win but not because of that monster. They win vecause they activated Cracking at the first summon of my turn or Mirror wall on my attack.
Floodgates are a result of trying to regulate how fast paste the game has gotten and how unfair it is to go against certain decks. If they want to make the game more fair, instead of making cards that stop your opponent from playing, konami should STOP MAKING GENERIC BOSS MONSTERS and take a look at the rules of the game. Hot take but I’d say start by putting a limit on special summons
I play Domain Monarch our field spell is probably one of the aggreges floodgates in the game you see Domain of the True Monarchs is a field spell that states while I am the only player to control a tribute summoned monster my opponent cannot Special summon from the extra deck pair this with monsters like Vanity's Fiend witch stops both players from special summoning and Majesty's Fiend witch stops either player from activating monster effects both of these cards are level 6 witch means you need to you guessed it tribute summon them and they can be protected via the spell card March of the Monarchs which prevents my opponent from targeting or destroying tribute summoned monsters with card effects this may seem just impossible to out but if you have Harpies Feather Duster or Lightning Storm to take care of the backrow my monsters have no protection and can be easily outed I may sound like a hypocrite when I say this but i don't like floodgates cards however i do think that they are a necessary evil at times
I've said it once... I'll say it a million times. Archetypes need to be xenophobic against other archetypes (with some special cases). Half the issues with Yu-Gi-Oh is one archetype abusing another archetypes card.
bought the Red Dragon Archfiend structure deck last year which just so happens to have that "King Calamity" only for it to be banned. So, i bought the deck and it was for nothing? Thanks Konami
Just To Clarify Overwhelmingly Powerful Floodgates aren't the only problem. An Equal Case Can Be Made For Generic Omni-Negate End Boards That Can Interrupt You 8 Times. Or The Disparity Between An Older Deck And The Hyper Consistency Of New Decks That Release. Perhaps We Can Talk About Those In The Future?
Well I guess you should follow up this video with Lector/Jinzo vs Kaiba
Or Crow vs Lazar
Thank you for this comment. A LOT of combo players in general refuse to admit that spamming the field full of generic omni negates is 100% just as unfair as floodgates
@@RayMon504 that's why most of the good generic omni negates have been getting hit. Baronne, gone, Apollusa, Gone, Savage Dragon, GONE
Well isn't this line of logic why Appolusia is getting banned??
@@RayMon504ich stimme dir zu 👍🏽
So I will say that I don't think floodgates are "inherently" bad for the game; but I do think it's because of how STUPIDLY OP the modern game's speed/meta has been for awhile. It bleeds into the decks too cause I feel like most new archetypes are just engines that have a bunch of effects that bounce off each other to lock your opponents lol.
I love Yu-Gi-Oh with all my heart, but man do I fucking hate playing Yu-Gi-Oh
Sadly I feel the same way, grew up with the game in grade school and middle school. Wish to continue it but it's gotten to a point where it's monotonous
Mood
I want Chaotic back.😢
Same here. I will always cherrish the franchise with all my heart and continue so. But I can't support how broken the card games has been getting. Wish they would fix that. But I highly doubt it.
Change format
Modern Yugioh in general is one of the most toxic games I have ever played. I love Yugioh but it’s so hard to play this game and actually have fun.
Meta is toxic. Floodgates save us. Theres nothing better than locking down a darn unfair Kashtira or Snake-Eye with Fossil Dyna
Exactly. The only reason they cry about it is because their super ultra meta decks isn't winning anymore and they can't play their 18 card 6 minute board combo. And the fact that this word "toxic" keeps getting thrown around says more about the people saying it than it does with the people using those cards. They always want to limit or ban something that's stopping their deck. It's dumb.
Floodgate is toxic as well. Modern day Yugioh is just at a point that no matter what happens the game isn’t fun anymore. It’s just a stew of toxicity. People complain that Floodgate isn’t fun to play against but neither is loosing on the second turn. Floodgate is a by product of Modern Yugiohs poor Meta. The game needs to slow down or it’ll forever be in this stalemate of Toxicity.
I’ve found ways to have fun by playing silly Alternate win cons and not really caring if I win or lose
This is why I play casual and custom formats lol
"Why don't we bring lesser decks up..."
Because that is how we powercreep into more degeneracy. You bring the meta down, so the game can be slowed down. I don't have fun doing 15 card combos to end in 3 omninegates. I would much rather have each player play slower decks.
And as you mention, a big problem is just the amount of negates available or "needed" in the game right now. I can't play a lesser deck if I just get negated and my turn is over. It is just as bad as a floodgate.
If you need to run shit like MaxxC or Ash Blossom the game isn't working.
Just look at yubel. Yubel used to be shit but after support became a top tier strategy and people hate it. So it’s like no matter what you do yugioh players will just cry about something else.
@@unsungangel7269 the problem is the game is highly unbalanced and has been for years. Magic and Pokemon don't struggle like Yu-Gi-Oh does
Then don't do 15 card combos. Js. Or take 5 minutes to set a board.
@@unsungangel7269 exactly. Learn the game. Play the game. Be ok with not winning all the time. Have fun with it. And be smarter than the average meta player.
I love how the title doesn't have a question mark. He wasn't asking, he was stating.
I Forgot To Add it lol!
It’s cool man!
@@TGSAnimedidnt get rid of the exclamation mark tho TwT
Floodgates are required or hard 1 special summon per turn requirement
Change my mind
It actually does have exclamation marks and question marks. Not sure what you're on about.
I'd much prefer playing against Floodgates if they also have to grind out the game. The floodgates i can't stand are when they set up a huge board and then floodgate me.
Then the problem isn't the floodgate, it is the huge board you can set in a singular turn.
@@N12015No the problem is that they can set up their board then floodgate you taking away your options to out their board
Plus, what makes it even worse if I'm somehow able to out their entire board it is no point they can easily recycle all the necessary cards just to set up the same board again.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I just wish it didn't feel like you *have* to play either meta or anti-meta. I just wanna build a deck around a cool archetype or monster :(
I think this is a very popular opinion!
You're spot on
That's just how the cookie crumbles when you're playing a competitive game unfortunately, it isn't just like that with YuGiOh (although with YuGiOh it's amplified because of the speed of the game and power of top strategies). You can play rogue decks but you're trading the power for the unfamiliarity your opponent will have with your deck and you win that way. It isn't going to be a win rate like you're playing snake eyes, but if you're playing something wacky than people aren't going to know what it's end goal is and you can cheese wins off of them that way lol
My guy, I will shake your hand and play you with my Blue-Eyes White Dragonmaid deck any day.
In master duel you actually could, in gold rank or lower 😅 also, within the middle and end of season, so that the sweaty meta users already in Plat or higher rank
The fact you look at both sides of the discussion makes me appreciate the video a lot more. Not just advocating one side, actually looking at both.
And honestly both side's complaints are easily boiled down to one thing in the end: "I can't play the game".
I wish we could return to the old days with battle phase reliant multi-turn back and forths, where 75% of modern day handtraps would barely do anything because it was just normal summon, attack (optional), set cards, pass.
But you're living in a dream world where that didn't happen outside of kitchen table yugioh, it's always been like this from yatalock onward - the community.
1999 Exodia FTK was tier 0.
OCG also had many OTK and FTK decks and many lockdowns.
There was no such thing as kitchen or playground ygo being the main thing
This is from someone who quit YuGiOh years ago, at the rise of LinkMonsters... But IMO what ruined YuGiOh for the majority of the casual players was search effects becoming dominant. Sure, of course it boosts consistency and you don't need to find a way to make the cards in your hands work... But I think that was the beauty of YuGiOh up to 2008 or so, you had to work with the cards in your hand with some very limited ways to get what you wanted to make your strategy work... Nowadays it is more about just working up plays over and over around the same cards that you have way too many ways to get to work.
You can see why Rush flat-out has none.
This is why we hand traps and floodgates that are more prominent now. Which balances it out.
For me its the unfairness of meta decks that have less to no locks or restriction, and high summoning flexibility Look at tear, snake eyes, fiendsmith. They just keep coming back! Fusion route blocked? Okey go to link, and let the snowball rolls again. Its just unfair when ash, nib, ghost, cant even reduce their endboard product
@@Dz73zxxx I do agree with that too, the meta decks, and honestly even rogue strategies just have way too many ''this that and those'' pre-set plays. I might be saying this without that much of an insight into modern yugioh, I did give it up, I only watch matches now, but every match has the same-ish strategy. Play this, get that, search that, send the grave, yada yada repeat. It's almost like duels are scripted now. You don't work around what your opponent has, you just do your own play and it is already premade to counter about anything possible.
@@linkaiser8709 That just about sums it up. Maybe not in a nutshell, some are a wee bit different, but it does a good job.
Another big issue I'm not seeing mentioned is the Extra Deck. The Extra Deck is a nightmare, going from being something to get your big bad boss out to just a deck you can nab whatever card from as long as you play a singular card that goes "ye just get whatever the hell you're running out"
It doesn't need search, it's very generalized, has loads of effects, and is absurdly cheap.
The game basically has 3 decks now, two of which you don't need to search (graveyard and extra) and one of which you just search without consequence.
Solitaire players: "You're what's wrong with this game!"
Anti-meta floodgate players: "No, you're what's wrong with this game!"
Decks with neither of those card types: "Why can't we just have fun anymore?"
People on the outside with no cards: "How is this game still here?"
Lol, there's 2 kind of people out there; yugioh players and people who didn't know this game was even alive at this point
I think that omni negates are even more toxic than floodgates. You can play around floodgates way easier if you are willing to hit the consistency of your deck a little than having something that essentially goes "oh you want to use this? Nah mate one of my 70 negates say no try again in the next duel".
Honestly omni-negates and one card starters need to go away if floodgates are to go. We can't just have every deck just go "I barf my entire deck in one turn now deal with it!"
Well you can say the same shit qbout omnis. Run dark ruler or droplets lol just make your deck less consistent. And no omnis are not worse because they are one for one trade floodgates are everything for one trade. Omnis can be god awfull to play againts if there is a critical mass of them but there isnt right now
@@stefanokic406 if wasn't for deck that put alot os monster negates, dark ruler would probably never existed
@@mateussoares3569 if it wasnt for degenarate backrow twin twister would not exist right. Or Lightning storm
@@mateussoares3569let’s not go chicken or egg here. End board negates are a problem but I’ll take that off floodgates. I blame one card combos for that honestly
"You can play around floodgates way easier if you are willing to hit the consistency of your deck"
Yeah, that sounds good in theory but is practically impossible haha
I think something people just need internalized at this point is that yu-gi-oh, at its core now, is all about making sure your opponent can't play. Doesn't matter how you get there, that's just the name of the game though
The sad truth..
The game has gotten too fast and too consistent to let the other guy get a damn move off. That's why the best opening hand is usually 1 15 step combo starter that does everything you ever want to get your entire board off the ground. And 4 handtraps.
Yeah, I’ve made a blue-eyes deck with some meta cards to prevent playing. Two of each of these, Ash, imperm, called by, ghost ogre, effect veil.
I run drowning, quaking and storming mirror forces, magical cylinders and magic cylinder.
It’s real heavy on the stun/floodgate, that’s part of the reason I built a bare bones 40 card Blue-Eyes tribe deck, it’s a little more fun than the Meta deck. My modern-meta Blue-Eyes is a little too unfun from an interaction point for my opponents. Usually by the second ash, or first called by they quit.
Even after seeing the actual archetype and thinking they have a chance. Which, arguably in certain cases, they do. They don’t call it “Brick Eyes” for nothing.
I like watching DuelLogs Failed Archetypes and 9 times out of 10 the reason a Deck is featured there is "It's too slow," "Can't set up a board," "Can't play through disruption," or "Doesn't let you interact with your opponents board/disrupt their plays."
The other 1 time being When/If or a Lack of a Boss/Theme.
But damn. If I can't win without just boxing my opponent out of the game, then I'm not interested.
@@Ty17Vi don't watch clickbait. He label 90% of decks as that because "it doesnt top in current year"
I have an idea for an “Anti-Annoyance” kind of card that’s designed to play around Summon and Effect negations:
_I WILL NOT BE DENIED!_
Counter Trap
_You can Pay Half your LP to activate this card from your hand. If your opponent Negates your Summon/Set of a Monster(s) and/or your activation of a Card(s) or Effect(s); Apply 1 of the following effects; then shuffle this card into your deck._
_⚪️Normal Summon/Sets during or Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower Monster from your Hand, Deck or GY._
_⚪️Set 1 Spell/Trap from your Hand, Deck or GY._
_⚪️Draw 2 cards._
_You can only use 1 “I WILL NOT BE DENIED!” per turn._
Good card idea.
Mine is more of an effect type, if this good effect is negated, a second one happens. There is a monster which negates 2 or 3 times. Iirc
Floodgates ruin Yugioh yes, but do you know what else ruins Yugioh? How fast the entire game has gotten. In my opinion, the game feels WAY too fast. Stuff happens way too quickly and thus it doesn't feel like you're playing a game, you're not interacting with your opponent. And for any of you who say "Oh just play GOAT format", I shouldn't have to be forced to play a different format just to play a slower, more interactive game. That's why I've moved on from Yugioh [I still support you TGS because these anime duels and analyses into different aspects into this game is fun to watch] to Magic the Gathering, its given me that slow-paced gameplay that I've been wanting.
I think it's good that Yugioh and MtG play very differently. This avoids a too big overlap in target audience.
It is more of a case if "you can not have two things", you can get interactive back and forth games if, and a vey big IF, both decks are on the same level, a.k.a Meta vs Meta, the issue of being unable to play arises when you also want to play a beloved themed deck be it something old or something new but not good enougth , so you either play something that is not your favorite and get an interactive, intense game, or you play what you like to play and is not competitive and just do not get to play at all. ( If you so happen to genuinely like a meta deck, well those are exceptions and may they be happy playing their decks)
@@dudono1744why the fuck is that a good thing? Why wouldnt we want an overlap
No they don't. They're banned solely because it stops the toxic meta sweaty decks that OTKs and locks down other players from even playing the heavily one sided game and it doesn't matter who goes first. You're fucked as soon as the first turn starts because the special summoning and searches/draw effects get abused more than Johnny Depp did in the last 7 years.
@@TeenPerspektiva So more people can enjoy a game, also what's the point of 2 games having the same target audience ?
The sad truth is that nearly everything in YuGiOh! has become toxic. The constant power creep is so insane that fair/balanced cards just do not get played, because they are simply considered "bad".
In the end do all successful decks try to keep the opponent from playing. Whether that's through floodgates, (omni-)negate boards, one card combos to be paired with 3+ hand traps, a simple OTK, Kashtira with their zone locking or even Tearlament which starts a new 5 minute chain every time you dare activate an effect during your own turn (and the latter two aren't even considered meta-relevant, despite how insane their effects sound). With YuGiOh! having no resource system, it needs an incredibly careful approach to balancing - which gets immediately thrown out of the window because product management trumps game management.
I really enjoy breaking boards or baiting the opponent's negate. What I don't enjoy is needing to play the one or two current meta-decks which are the only ones able to play through the other meta decks' slew of negates and protections. Which then also need cards costing hundreds of dollars.
For me i do enjoy working around floodgates, at least the more basic ones. Omni negates i do find demoralising though. Both in principle ‘stop you playing’ but one i see as a puzzle. The other is someone slapping your card out of your hand saying nope.
Its the same thing but the omninegate is way harder to counter since the opponent has the choice to do it anytime. I dont think omninegate is that unfair unless its something generic like barrone or borreload where anyone can bring it out. Then its still a puzzle, you just need to trick your opponent into negating something so you can finish off the full combo required to take back control of the duel
First I love your content and your overall view and opinions of Yu-Gi-Oh both anime and card game. I also love that you are not one of those mindless meta-sheep such as mbt, farfa, deezef, and other prominent I believe the term is yugitubers. By Meta-sheep I refer to their unwavering opinion that the Meta game was, is, and should always be the way Yu-Gi-Oh is played and that anyone who would play (like me) what they would call a 'rouge deck' has no real skill in either playing Yu-Gi-Oh or building a deck in Yu-Gi-Oh. Not to get in an off topic rant but where is the skill in deck building when you see a deck win a major YCS title and then you the 'pro Yu-Gi-Oh/yugituber player' copies card for card their deck and then goes around pretending to be great God tier skill Yu-Gi-Oh player and chastising those who would dare to play a deck that you and your fellow meta-sheep aren't playing or a deck specifically built (which actually takes research and skill to build.) to counter their Meta deck.
But to the point I was going to comment on. Your central point seems to be (and honestly I haven't watched the entire video yet. I paused it to leave this comment, so it's possible that later you explain something that completely invalidates this entire comment and that's cool.) that floodgates are bad because they prevent the opponent from executing their intended strategy or win condition thus being unfair to the opponent. Yes I can definitely see your point and it has merit I don't dispute your position at all, I half agree with it. However, on the other side of the unfair things in Yu-Gi-Oh coin. You have the usually meta driven 'set up a unbreakable board on turn 1 so that on opponent turn 1 they are completely unable to counter or actually play the game in any way at all's giving that so great and skilled meta-sheep player a no effort free easy win. I would list and show all the ways I'm speaking of, but I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of every Yu-Gi-Oh card ever made to use in any given situation and I'm on a phone watching your vid so research would be way to insufferable lol. But I will point out two examples (and remember I don't off hand know every card used and in what order they are used to reach the end position of their combo or strategy.) first is a raidraptor boss XYZ card that says it cannot be targeted for effects, it cannot be destroyed by card effects or battle, and if an opponent uses an effect it can be negated by detaching a material (which through rank-up XYZ cards it can have more then 6 material attached to it) and that negate option isn't once per turn, it's as long as the XYZ has a material. The turn 1 player plays his deck setting up a monster that essentially locks the other player out of even getting a turn 1. The other meta-sheep fav right now is the (again I don't have access to what exactly the cards are called, but I can partially explain the mechanic if it) on turn one they summon out various monsters that have the effect of being summoned from grave and being placed in spell/trap zone. When they are placed in the spell/trap zone they can add a ritual monster card or a card that mentions the ritual monster on it from deck or grave to their hand. When that card is added to hand it can be summoned by a monster on field effect or placed in spell trap zone. then the player summons out the ritual boss monster. Then P1 attaches the spell trap zone monsters to the monsters on field and ends turn.(all the monsters used have 0/0 attack/defence.) On player 2 first turn they can quit because they know that they actually have no reasonable means of winning at all. P2 can try to set up their strategy and summon a monster but once they do P1 will activate a card effort that allows P1 to take control of a monster, stopping and planned effect so P2 ends turn. P1 turn 2 they either tribute P2 monster to give them a high attack monster and then enter battle phase attacking with a 0/0 monster into a 2400 monster. The effect of spells and monsters attached to P1 monsters is that opponent takes all battle damage from the attack and that the attacking monster cannot be destroyed by battle, and it cannot be targeted by a card effect when attacking. Thus giving P1 the win.
There are many, many, many other examples I could list but I've spent too much time on this novel I'm writing here lol.
My point is yes I use floodgates such as fossil dyna, there can be only one, gozen match, Royal decree, moon mirror shield, black garden, soul levy, imperial order, synchro zone, and others not to prevent you from playing the game. Heck there are ways around my cards listed and if you bypass them I'm screwed good game you win congrats. No I am forced to use them so that I can hopefully have the opportunity to play the game I love past my first turn and maybe just maybe with the heart of the cards draw the perfect card to defeat a great player.
It’s so miserable on Duel Links when I’m waiting 5+ minutes for their opening hand. Like holy shit can we play the game?
I mean...we say that Floodgates "Nerf" meta decks and "We shouldn't bring "good" decks down so older ones can compete."
But if that meta deck was really that good, why cant it play around/through/out the Floodgate? If you can't be Meta because Rivalry of Warlords is on the Field, slot in back row removal, vary up your Monster Types, do something.
This game is simply too fast and too unforgiving (and arguably unfun) to not be kneecapping Tearlaments at every on-field opportunity, cause given the chance they will lock you out of the game.
If were gonna say "Skill issue," to peoole who wanna play Dark Magician, Gustos, Toons, etc. fine, but lets keep that same energy when Macro Cosmos, Imperial Order, etc. are on the field and your deck is a paperweight. If not, then something has to slow this game down, cause this 4 Turn-Duel Era is NOT it.
Short answer: yes
Long term: yes
I like it when they make new support for older archtypes or even make very old vanilla monsters into a new archtype (Memento for example) but sometimes Konami makes decisions that create an underwhelming experience. I really like that Ancient Gears got new support and the new cards are pretty fun but a few still have to include not being able to set cards if you activate a specific effect and some still can't be special summoned. The Transcendosaurus archtype is a really cool idea and I love when new Dinosaur cards are added but their effects aren't super unique and have a very specific requirement if you want to use their effects to revive them.
The biggest problem with Yugioh has been, and always will be, meta slavery.
So true
Not me, ive had more success NOT being a meta slave than i would be being braindead.
When konami stops making tier zero archtypes then they wont be a problem
But they won't they need that Money $$$ FR like Master Duel is just gonna be Master Drool until they just either Bring All Decks up or stop making New Decks that just easily Overpowers the rest of the Archetypes
Again, not the problem. It's the unlimited special summoning that kills the game. Once you limit that shit down to one per turn, then these metas will stop.
@@PBJA89-w8r then everyone plays stun which brings us back to problem 1.
"Anything that even slows down my ability to summon fifteen monsters per turn is toxic and ruining the game." -every modern Yugioh player, apparently.
Imagine they made a New Master Rule where now you are just Limited on your Summons like since Nibiru is a think you are only allowed to Summon up to 7 or 8 Monsters Per Turn like make it Fair enough man!?
I fully agree. I can't play it anymore cause of the over obnoxious summons. Soon as I see a person walk in with 30+ cards in is extra deck I quit. That's stupid.
@DragonusDraco extra deck has been 15 cards limit for most of the game’s life span. What are you talking about?
Floodgates don't just slow people down though do they a lot of the best ones outright lock you out of being able to do anything at all.
I'd like to summon a monster that won't immediately die.
Floodgates are the only thing that makes yugioh remotely playable at this point. Being able to summon 5-10 monsters a turn and then have them negate everything your opponent tries to do is what killed this game for a huge portion of players.
Yep.
Exactly. It's what killed my joy in the game. I drop Mistake and it's gives me and my burn decks a fighting chance against the modern meta of a player drawing their whole deck in a turn.
Facts, speaking true opinion.
I stopped buying the cards in 2014, except 5 Bucks in duel links. From 2015-2024 aside from DL, I had played on and off.
This exactly
TBH the thing I noticed about those that hate floodgates are the ones who typically play Meta or OTK decks and hate it when their "end duel in one turn" 'strategy' can't work and give them an instant win. That's my experience anyway...
Nope out of 10 decks i play i roll my eyes 9 times when i see floodgates. And none of my deck are really meta
Same as me
LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER. Floodgates and such make decks that were already less than teir 0 to 1 pretty much unplayable. Good luck playing a for fun deck when some bozo pulls up with floodgates for no reason lol
@@danielbarnes1241literally
FACTS. It's the number one thing I also noticed. Time and time again. There are so many cards that literally stop floodgates while they're active, before activation and afterwards. So the complaint about them just means they're not privy to what the rest of cards do in their library of cards. The game is literally built around there not being one card to rule them all. It's how you build the deck. Period. Don't like floodgates? Then add floodgate stoppers in your side deck. Which is what you should be doing anyway. Js
I personally dont mind Floodgates too much, but then again I was joyusly blessed with having a best friend who would almost always play some form of control or stun deck(Thunder Dragons and Salads back in their prime) while I sat there and struggles with my hero deck(back when the best play was Trinity OTK). So I just kinda got use to them.
Interesting observation regarding the heroes floodgates. I didn't know it had so many.
At the very least 1 of 2 of them has been powercrept out. Dark angel is just bad to play now. Congrats, you stopped your opponent from using spells, at least until they take the free material you gave them for a link summon and use it.
Not sure how good Cosmo neos is. Seems bad, imo, being so reliant on getting neospacians to the field, but maybe I just don't know how good that archetype is now.
And the plasma is good, but needing 3 tributes and only having 1900 attack with no protection...he's kind of easy to get over. I play a heroes deck and half the time I can't even get him out because I'll only have 2 tributes on the field alongside my end board monsters.
Dark law, though, that I can understand people taking issue with. Super easy to get out, and locks off the gy. Devastating for some decks.
I feel similarly as a hero player. Dark law I would say is at least semi-understandable as it only has 2400, and nowadays it seems a lot of decks seem to have monsters that SS themselves from hand and have 2500ish.
Ran a bunch of duels in the duelist cup, WITHOUT going into dark law while going first, and just got obliterated on repeat, even through my full combo. I started next duel with dark law, and FINALLY started to see some slow down. Almost feels like a requirement for heroes
Yugioh needs to balance its effects by having conditions be needed. For example Cyber Blader has cool effects that change depending on the amount of monsters your opponent controls. Having a condition contingent on whats on the field helps.
Feather duster may not have been as ubiquitous if Harpie Lady was needed to activate it.
I just wish they were more balanced especially skill drain to make you pay 1500 each rune to keep it on field. One and done basically makes it unstoppable for trap decks or stall decks. This way the time limit is fair.
i hate skill drain. back in 2008, my buddy running it and has gigantes
Run removal.
Skill Drain decks are not good and most control decks are too fair. This is a falicy
@@soukenmarufwt5224 they negate your removal. What then?
It honestly should have an effect that says you must pay 1000 LP during each standby phase or end phase, or otherwise, you destroy the end.
Fair cards don't win. Quite coping
Unfortunately its the second best way to play, first being whatever the latest combo deck is.
Coin flip determines the winner at this point.
Its true
Remember people, games are to be fun for everyone, if you stop someone from playing, no one is having fun
I think the real issue is generic summoning conditions... no boss monster is locked into its deck like the old ones. Quasar, Blazar, calamity, etc. are all generic and can be splashed into ANYA synchro deck...
Monsters need to be locked into their archetypes, and a lot of this can and will stop outside of the old floodgates.
If you have to pay reasonator/ree dragon will you want to play calamity?? Probably not
This is why i quit EVERYTHING is splashable. To a degree, especially the extra deck, thats where yugioh went wrong and needs to clean up..
And to konami's credit
They are trying......after 25 or so years of the game
Yeah, only NOW are they banning apo, barrone, savage but yeah...i see your point
Isn’t that why Konami, at first, made the Extra Monster Zones and Link Monsters to limit how many Extra Deck monsters could be played?
@@Gameact3 yeah but then had to do the revisions because some decks jist could not play under it so now it only fucks over pedulums
@@Gameact3 .......and how many ftks were made then?
Quasar/Blazar are technically generic, but in practice you need to build around them (if you ignore crimson dragon)
Not the video I expected to see you make but I’m here for it all the Same.
"Flood gates are bad because you can't stop them unless you have the response in hand to counter them. However, I like having high speed counters and responses in my deck to counter my opponents cards: they could stop me if they just have the response to my cards in their hand." Your argument sounds like, to me, "your [oppressive] fun isn't fun unless it's my kind of [oppressive] fun."
Exactly. Straight Up "Rules for Thee, Not for Me"
I agree with you as well. Yu-Gi-Oh was far more fun when It was a back and forth tug-of-war kind of thing. Where the next card could be your last, and my some miracle heart of the cards luck or math and probability being in your side you draw the perfect one card that can save you.
For example I'll go waaaaay back and set this up. Your opponent has destiny board with I-N-A on board and they end turn. You have 30 of 40 cards left in your deck and only 1 of them is mystical space typhoon, dust tornado, heavy storm, giant trunade etc etc etc. if you draw it you have a chance to play and win if not opponent wins next turn.
The tension and excitement was what made Yu-Gi-Oh so much fun.
Now it's 99% sit and watch opponent on turn 1 set things up so you have a mathematical 0% chance of winning.
@@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099Yugioh was never really that.
You just didn't play meta when you were a kid
Meta back then was hand ripping.
Good luck winning when on turn 1 your opponent has already ripped 2 or 3 cards out of your hand
They need very specific hands to do what your describing. Having seen old top tier decks, they still averaged 5 to 15 turns. Yes the game can end in the old days within 2 to 3 turns but even back then it was far from standard and literal factorials more inconsistent. Yu-Gi-Oh has optimized the fun out of itself and is a very common problem for choice heavy games that promote efficiency and synergy.
@@PlayWithThatBlackGuy yeah I did on occasion play the meta. I played the Yugi dark magician, I played the kaiba blue eyes, I played the joey red eyes. I also on occasion would play so called rouge decks like burn, mill, destiny board, exodia, and later god card decks personal fav was slifer.
The back and forth I was speaking of was allowed and usually the case for the first 4-6 turns of the duel. Not always there were times by my turn 3 I had no real chance of winning due to cards opponent played and that was fine. The back and forth aspect was enabled by the fact that it took 2-4 turns to get your boss monster out, your ideal spell/trap set-up ready, your game controlling monster effects on the field. When I was spending 2-4 turns setting things up, you my opponent had 2-4 turns to either stop or delay what I was trying to do long enough to get your strategy established. You had those turns to set up your strategy to defeat me. Maybe I had a counter on field like a mirror force or torrential tribute or something else to counter your play or maybe I didn't.
Now Yu-Gi-Oh isn't about that strategy, that mental game of chess to counter your opponent. No modern Yu-Gi-Oh is all about winning on turn one, making sure your opponent cannot make any moves or plays, to turn what could take 5-20 or do minutes to win into winning within the first 30 seconds of a duel.
I think Floodgates are fine if... you can only have one activated at a time, and subsequent "neither player can ____ while this card exists" activations then overwrite the previous floodgate's effect.
I don't think we should go full oldschool Field Spell rules with it, each player should be allowed their own Floodgate really, but I do think allowing players to lock their opponents out of multiple ways to play the game at once is just plain unfun design.
Though I am a filthy casual XD
We could get something similar to the Mulcharmy monsters but for floodgates.
"Super Starslayer TY-PHON - Sky Crisis" is also a popular card that have floodgate effects, but banning it kinda defeats the whole reason of its existence against "Divine Arsenal AA-ZEUS - Sky Thunder"
They are a necessary evil annoying but without them there would be no game with the games extreme speed i support anything that makes the game last more than 4 turns.
I think there should only be protection type "floodgates". Basically there shouldn't any cards that stops your opponent from playing cards or using effects but stopping from your monsters being attacked or destroyed is fine.
Though Floodgates are just one of the many problems with current Yu-Gi-Oh!
Hot take: generic Omni negates are floodgates. They stop your opponent from doing something but the owner chooses when
Floodgates wouldn’t be a problem if there were less generic boss monsters.
Yugioh went from a combat based style game to a OTK game where you play solitaire.
So many boards end up on the same generic field and different archetypes still end up on the same cards.
Make archetypal boss monsters and diversify the game, get rid of broken generic monsters and then ban floodgates, oh and Omni negates
I've had several replies to comment I made on this video or replies to my replies to others comments that are either insulting of me or are brain dead 'well git gud' type of idiocy.
To sum up modern Yu-Gi-Oh I will ask you to play a game with me. The rules are very simple, I toss a coin in the air. If I can call it wrong you win $100, however if I call it right I win $50. Would you play the game with me? But there is something you don't know, the coin I am using has two tails no heads and I always call tails. How long would you play that game with me, how long would you try to win a game that you functionally have zero percent chance of winning ever, how long would you tolerate losing before you give up and walk away?
Modern Yu-Gi-Oh the modern so called meta game has turned Yu-Gi-Oh into that coin flip game. If you go first you win and nothing the opponent can do will change that. The proverbial deck is stacked against them even before the decks are shuffled and cards drawn. How long would you play this version of the game before either you mortgage your house to get into that tier 0 you have at least a 50/50 chance of winning if you go first Deck or you realize that eating feeding your kids or keeping the lights on is more important then paying an outrageous amount of money for cardboard with pretty pictures on it that will let you have a realistic chance of winning.?
Welcome to Yugioh, where you can no longer have fun
So I was thinking about similar stuff. So let me present you my fixes for YGO (remember this is similar to the video a general hit so some decks needs to be adjusted):
1. Ban generic floodgates, Archetypal at one (same as the video).
2. Ban generic draws and bosses (self explanatory Barone was a mistake and so were the Pot retrains).
3. Limit all Bossmonsters (here the first exception becomes apparent as decks like Salad would just die when you do this).
4. Ban „one card“ bridges (so ban Closed Heaven is banned, Yama is banned, but Exciton Knight are still legal. Basically generic archetypal links that are too easy to summon but also cards like Banshee that get you 1 card bridges like Corridor or Flag, in which case its a case by case scenario).
5. Limit HT to be only be activatable if you control no monsters.
6. Ban generic OTK tools (like Accesscode or Topologic Zeroborus).
Sure some decks would be nerfed to oblivion (like Unchained [Yama and Tourguide banned, any Soul card limited, SP banned Unicorn limited also just one Caesar and no Zeus]).
However we then could start to think about how to either balance out those banned cards (like requiring Yama an Unchained card). But also we can see how decks adapt to these changes. Like in YGO there are so many little synergies that can be substituted in (like Bystial Runick or Branded Tear but also more obscure stuff like Bird up or Labrynth D/D Unchained).
YGO would become kinda like finding the perfect synergies to squeeze out the potential of any deck.
Also it would allow a cardtype to finally see play that couldn’t see play before and thats the recyclers.
Lab Setup for example or other cards similar to it would see play.
So the game would also revolve around setting up your engines in such a way that you recycle one of them while the other keeps you alive.
Btw all I mentioned would still leave a lot of decks in a too powerful position (like Lab would still have Daruma and Rollback as well as Arias. They would just loose 1 Angel 1 Lady and if you really push it you could ban Ariane; similarly Ritual beast would just loose Shifter, but they wont have to worry about droll and they would loose Banshee into Flag into Protos but they still could go into a Gryphon next turn. They also loose Apo, SP and IP but their main engine is basically untouched). So yeah this isn’t perfect but a solid start.
Thanks for reading this text wall.
Do you have questions?
Ideas?
Leave a comment down below and Im happy to elaborate/discuss with you.
Have a nice day
AEther
I don’t play yugioh anymore but I think it’s way pass fixing this issue. Floodgates are needed against the endless torrent of SS that the game encourages now. If you just keep the floodgates, that’s toxic. If you just keep the SS gameplay, that’s toxic too. Konami would have to ban a majority of cards from the last decade at this point.
But they won't if anything they probably might endorse it later like Konami is just on $$$ Mode at this point the only way to have them know you dislike their Decisions is to just NOT PAY vote with your Wallet not with your Fanservices.
@@ninjabros6282 i haven't played for quite a while. maybe close to a decade? not sure. but once SS and negates started becoming extremely prevalent, i stopped playing at all.
@@ninjaman0003 Which is basically during MR3.
Thing is that floodgates don’t fix this problem, they’re only useful going first, minus the few hand trap variants. They also result in boring games where the opponent literally can’t do anything, unless they luck into the right card. Hand traps deal with this problem better as it generates interaction between players, though even they’re struggling to hold back the power creep
@@waylander9265 hand traps weren't nearly as strong as before i quit. so i can't even pretend to speak about hand traps being a useful or not against the SS heavy style.
Just turn everything into a Turbo Duel, speed counters being a resource force the game to slow down by making stronger effects more costly to activate and flood gates not being as rampant since they can be categorized as powerful effects that cost more speed counters.
I agree certain Floodgates get too OP at times, however I dunno If this is just me but if we banned every Floodgate/lingering floodgate effect then it wouldnt stop there. We'd ban generic omni-negates and then finally negates all around. I do agree that if we banned all floodgates Konami would be forced to make control/rouge/older decks stronger but then that's also a problem. Remember Kelbek, Agido, and Mudora? yeah those were old ass Dark Crisis anime cards that became uber OP and 2 of those cards are banned now. Or an even better example Yubel. Rn its gotten stronger and ppl are askin for cards in that deck to be hit as well. I may be an yugi-boomer for sayin this next thing, but I like floodgates because yugioh isnt like how it was in 2005. Everything is turbo fast now so having cards that say yall cant do X thing is a needed thing in modern yugioh. Instead of banning them all maybe limiting them is a good middle ground as lomg as they arent searchable.
Thanks for the upload! Appreciate it!
I think every criticism you can lobby at floodgates you can also use against decks that set up boards with multiple omni-negates. As such I don't really understand why the popular opinion is "floodgates, bad! Mass negation, good", they both accomplish the same thing (stopping you're opponents from playing the game).
I do agree with point that older/rogue decks should be receiving support to raise them up rather than using tools to bring more modern/better decks down. However it must be said that philosophy is dependent on Konomi releasing support for them and given the vast numbers of older decks to support it's just not feasible to expect that EVERY deck will receive support. With that in mind; if a particular floodgate can help an under-supported archetype compete against whichever behemoths are dominating the meta at that particular point in time, that helps take away the onus to support an archetype from konami and places it in the hand of the player. And frankly, being able to pilot an older archetype to victory consistently shows good deck building skill
I wish Master Duel had a
‘Play cards only from 2000-2010’
Just to give old battle city vibes, and to give more non meta evenly matched duels. I can’t even remember the last time I tribute a monster 😂
I feel like part of the issue of people wanting to play fun nostalgic decks and the modern super speed of the game could be resolved with officially sanctioned formats. Like more than 15 people would play GOAT or Edison if they were an option on Master Duel. And then Konami could even make money by reprinting those old cards to support those formats for real life tournaments.
On another topic, have you ever done a 'could roman Goodwin (the final big bad of arc 2of 5d's. The giant dark signer/crimson dragon holding guy) have defeated crow, jack Atlas, and yusei fudo' episode?
Negate or omni negate made me stop learning modern game, I just couldn't keep up with the old meta n the new meta, every time I try to learn something theres a new negate that everyone have n if I don't play first I'm done
I placed YGO back when floodgates existed but weren't overly common. What got me out of the game was the absurdity of turns where you can play through 1/3 of your deck in a single turn and shut off your opponent. That is less fun than having to deal with 1 or 2 floodgates
Floodgates on monsters are mega cringe. Fossil Dyna, Ariseheart, Empen, Colossus etc.
Personally I disagree.
Monsters are the easiest things to out.
Some are horrible yes ariseheart is stupid.
But tri heart really ain't that bad
I’ve said it once and I will say it again: Yugioh needs a fluid banlist that changes depending on other cards in your deck. Thunder Dragon Colossus should be banned unless you are running many other thunder dragons in your deck as an example
floodgates arent the problem, thats on you if you dont play a backrow removal, hand traps , spam special summons, links, spam adding cards and generic once per turn negators are the real problem
Negates aren’t the problem, that’s on you if you plaint play board breakers
I'm sorry but yugioh it self is a flood gate game now, set your bored up first, you win nothing anyone can do, so now half your deck has to be hand traps, and one card starters.
That's how I feel about every deck that summons 35 monsters then have 7 negates and 3 handtraps
Which deck is that
@stefanokic406 feels like any top deck does this lol ends with a board of like 4 negates plus full hands with hand traps
@@DetroitsReaper none of the decks do that unless its like shs and nobody plays that
@@stefanokic406 what deck are you playing? And what is your end supposed board look like if you go uninterrupted?
@@stefanokic406 A lot of decks have done this for years though? What game are you playing? GOAT? We're talking modern YGO
I quit ygo around the start of the xyz era. Seeing how the game is nowadays I definitely left at the right time for me. I don't like the idea of watching your opponent play solitaire for ten minutes unless I have enough negates or floodgates to stop them then i just win.
Wouldn’t a new format fix this. With limiting or outright banning cards such as floodgates.
I thought when people create a full board of Omni-Negate monsters,traps, and Spells with the 1 turn summoning of all that was a floodgate.
One of the reasons I didn’t enjoy playing Master Duel much because it got annoying to deal with almost every battle.
I just want to play my HEROES deck 😭
Edit: I am just learning more of the hero cards that was mentioned in the video… wtf??? When were they added?? Though I doubt I’ll use them considering they probably not on master Duel anyways
They’ve been there since launch
I always felt like the game could've tried an "Archetype Only Meta" era for a bit. Keep cards within their own archetype without too much cross pollution between the crazy engines that makes the decks too strong. Idk, maybe it could've worked, maybe not 🤷♂️
Ban 90% of generic negate cards that aren't counter traps while you're at it.
ban all solve
Here's my take on floodgates: they're a necessary evil to keep combo decks in check, just like handtraps. They're only real a problem when the combo decks can search them as part of their end board (Such as sending it to GY with a card like Beatrice and using another effect to set on the field) or if they're Mystic Mine.
I will never forget when I used Witchcrafter Draping to bounce Mystic Mine back to my opponent's hand over and over, and after I won the duel, my opponent flamed me for "relying on a single spell card"
why do we need to nerf op decks? simple they are to fast i preferseing fdloodgates over sitting there for 15 minutes becasue i lost the dice roll and see my enemy just wombocombo
Completely unrelated question but what's the names are the background music you use in your videos
How dare my broken game have something else that is broken but doesn't have 2 paragraphs of text
If LP burn floodgates are floodgates, then any monster I can't swing over is a floodgate to me being able to attack and win.
Floodgates sometimes cause me to lose in Master Duel but I manage to overcome them. I would like to see a video on your thoughts about floating effects and if you like the or not
"Just be modern" is the worst advice to tell people who want to have fun
Wait what? Just based on what was said around 12 Minutes in.
You say the solution to wanting to play an older/non-meta deck is to abandon it and play meta. Vs. The solution to floodgates being draw the out or scoop.
The way you talk about it Floodgates are worse, but I mean come on. One of those is making me draw a removal card, the other is telling me to drop what i'm playing entirely and use an archetype or playstyle I wouldn't enjoy. Not saying they don't both blow. I will say I've never been as frustrated by a Skill Drain as I have Omni-negate boards.
EDIT: You say that nerfing decks to the level of older/non-meta decks isn't the solution. Elevating decks is... But isn't a common complaint about modern Yugioh it's speed?Wouldn't nerfing decks return the game to a more back and forth slower paced exchange? Look I'd just vote for whatever has turns not take 3-10 minutes, personally.
This is why i stopped playing yugioh it turned from being a fun back and forth game to, you cannot play unless i allow it
I can see that actually. I got back into it recently and noticed that. So i built a deck around just stopping those decks. And guess what? They complain and call cards "toxic" or "unfair" or they cry about the floodgates. Which puts a smile on my face that im destroying the "meta" prolific decks.
@@christophermiller1595I hate both of you
This a joke right? 😅. How bout no more 20 min combos and Konami would finally get a taste of that sweet sweet boomer $$. Floodgates have answers. Plus 5 boards and negatives don’t.
It more of the players problem can’t blame everything on Konami
No one tell people to use or support these cards
Not everyone wants to be a yugioh boomer
Its true
Great idea, man 😅. Yugioh should’ve never evolved. We should summon a random vanilla and set mirror force or mst forever on end
The whole game personally feels like you get floodgated at all times... you just have to wait for your opponent to play 20 cards for half an hour before we get there... if you have a floodgate it just expedited the 20 activations wait...
Kinda
Floodgates are hated but necessary to keep OP cards from running crazy
Cards that banish ur whole deck before u get to play
Honestly, I really wish Yu-Gi-Oh had stuck to keeping things relatively simple. Not introduced like 20 different summoning mechanics, made the game all about stopping your opponent from doing anything and removed the key part of the game itself. Namely monsters battleing and using spells and traps to power up yours or weaken your opponent.
OCG 1999 was all control.
Quit coping YGO was never anime fantasy land.
@@soukenmarufwt5224 Where did I say we should've stuck to 1999 Yugioh?
I'm saying the game is just a mess at this point and should've have to tried to make everything more complicated with all these new mechanics and elements.
Different summoning mechanics is what makes the game more interesting, imagine 20 years later, and people are still playing tribute summon, it would be super boring.
@@blackwhirlwind1245 We already had Normal, Tribute, Special, Fusion, Ritual and Synchro.
Now we have Pendulum, XYZ, Link. Did we really need 9 summoning mechanics?
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 it has been many years without new summoning mechanic, link is the last one. It seems like Konami has stop making new summoning mechanic for a while. Xyz is kinda boring, because you just use 2 monsters of same levels, link is very good design, because it has arrows that points to.
I hate hand traps myself. They should at least be trap cards
instead of banning the cards that slower decks need to keep up, i think Konami needs to take a page out of bushiroad's book, and add "choice restrict" to the banlist, this addition will stop the toxic combinations that crop up.
For Example of a choice restrict: Number 33 Chronomoly Machu Mech & Phantasmal Lord Ultimal Bishbalkaan (you can only have of either in a deck, not both). Bishbalkaan got on the banlist for the crimes committed by Number 33 (it essentially found another partner for the ftk).
YES!! Someone else who also plays Vanguard that also thinks this needs to be implemented!
I've been saying the same thing! Choice Restrictions NEED to be a thing in YGO. Example being Snake-Eye. Make it an example to, say, restrict "Snake-Eye" cards and "Fiendsmith" cards from being used together (and add "Azamina" to the pile as well post ROTA). That way, you wanna play Snake-Eye? Well tough shit, you get ZERO Fiendsmith cards AND ZERO Azamina cards to use alongside them. Or as you said, choice restrict generic bosses. Like, Baronne and Savage Dragon. You get one or the other, NOT both.
But YES! THIS is what we need to see implemented. Almost guarantee it would make things SO much better if this was a new addition to the banlist.
Im sorry that i enjoy and love Ice barriers
where's Kali Yuga on the list and also request for a Gimmick Puppet Archetype video
He is still in the Extra Deck, waiting for the Rank-Up Magic to activate.
I main Icejades and I love how they didnt make an appearance.
Master duel has a lot of problems
Maybe we should be more grateful for how the anime does things…
Never
Anime is all about cheating, the protagonist will always draw the right card at the right time.
@@blackwhirlwind1245 at least most duels in the anime are back and forth and don’t rely on using three copies of Skill Drain.
My honest opinion.... Floodgates can kick rocks man.
While I do understand each engine type has its play style and alot in some way lock you up or prevent you from affecting their board but when you literally play cards that lock me out on turn 1........ or when you activate stuff during MY turn and lock me out.....Alllllrightyy asshole, "forfeits" . Like its just stupid stuff like that, I think each player should be able to get a first fair turn out if anything. Then like you said, when i actually make sacrifices and do some strategic tricks around them and win...Ohhhhh does it feel so satisfying.
Skill Drain and Summon Limit should be Unlimited. Just ban lingering floodgates like D Barrier, D Dimension Ground, Harpie Storm, EEVirus. And bs like Colossus and Protos.
I don't like Floodgates but with players using Maxx C and both Mulcharmies, a lot of us mains here in OCG "summon limit, skill drain and there can only be one" just in case the opponent uses another one after you ash or called by the first one or just stop by the first one and then set readying to set up on opp's turn, that is if your deck can remove this floodgates like Snake-eyes or White Forest which can use this floodgates as a cost when it's your turn again
I would argue its more toxic sitting there going second watching your opponant go though half there deck on the first turn setting up multible hard negates and your 1-2 handtraps where not enough
then to just not being able to do much of anything
Floodgates are like just another way of adding negates onto the board and realy are not nearly as bad as ppl claim currently
they where once super OP and busted and i think ppl still remeber them in that way
but playing against some of the modern day decks we basicly still get floodgated via all the monsters on the opponant side of the field that can provide very powerful effects and instently win you the game.
While I don’t disagree that floodgates are a problem, I think there are ways for them to be better for the game. One is as others have mentioned and give them a maintenance cost, and one that I think is worth considering is to give them a restriction that prevents the user from activating other floodgates at the same time.
Also, I think it’s worth considering that nerfing the best decks is something Konami does already (it’s called the Forbidden and Limited list). Another consideration is that just buffing weaker decks constantly is a quick road to power creep.
3:04 -Whole heartedly agree! Some of my greatest sucesses with this in Duel Links is woth unconventional dekcs they are not expecting. I cant tell you how joyful it has been lately to use a penquin dekc and watch them realize how fucked they are for spamming two copies of book of the eclipse, three copies of book of moon, cracking, mirror force, etc. Everything bounces. Things get banished. I fet a jab in with nopenguin and they cant do much. Nevrovalley can be a slight danger but if I get out Nightmare Penguin or focus on defence first I can usualy remove it or stall them out if nothing else. Nothing more satusfying than seeing a broken ass Blue Eyes deck spam the newer fusions and alternatives only for evetything to get bounced to banish.
nah combo decks can play with themselves for 15 mins to make a no board i can flip a floodgate
So just skip the step, and end on same conclusion. Awsome
@@PersonaSimonWell which one is worse. Combo decks which can play through three hand traps and a board breaker or one that loses to cosmic cyclone?
Combo decks are way better to deal with than floodgates
Ideally, we need to fix both issues.
@@RFDN0 I can agree with that.
I only played competitive Yugioh from 2011 to 2014 I think. I stopped playing right when Pendulum starter decks first came out. You know, when Cyber Dragon Infinity was the hottest card.
So I'm VERY out of date with things. I keep up from a distance but still. It's probably pretty cliche to say this, but I think Yugioh was more fun when it was a trap heavy format. A slower grind style game. Sure, OTK decks existed like Karakuri or Hieratics, but things were pretty chill. Now in modern Yugioh, it appears that a top 8 table decides games on turn 2. That is stupid imo. Games that start and end that fast aren't fun. You may as well just being playing literal poker at that point.
As for the topic of floodgates, we saw plenty back in 2014. But they were also somewhat limited to a specific handful of them, and since the game was backrow heavy anyways, main decking 2-3 MST was common. So it was all OK for the most part.
My problem with floodgates today is that their purpose isn't what actually happens. They are meant to slow down crazy fast/powerful decks so others can catch up. But power creep seems to be so problematic that these very same decks can actually USE them rather than be hindered by them. Or their own theme has a built in plan B to get around their only weakness.
I also think handtraps are bad. You want to play "traps" from your hand? Go play MTG then.
But what do I know. I'm just an outdated player so, oh well.
2:27 -Agreed! The abilty to side deck is a boon in real life but thats not a viable option for me anynore. I dont even bother with Master Duel but even Duel links gets so toxic. Its the exact same thing with people maxing out on the most broken floodgates they can with the current bankist and just putting them in any of the top tier mirror match decks they chosoe at the time. Its so annoying. You get no chance to play again if they get three of those suckers in their opening hand. This is especially true id you go second. You get the card disadvantage and have to set up something or they will kill your filed and attck fir game that first turn if you dont play conservatively, they still will likly get you in the following turn becayse they crushed all your resources just attempting a defence. Its aggrevating and there are times doing PVP duels qhere im compeltly knocked form my ranking simply because I "won" the coin toss tend freaking times in a row and set up for failure by going first until I dropped a rank. Ive also had times where people will draw all three copies of Cracking on their first turn. People say its crazy to argue the odds are not fair but I feel its true. The coin flip and draw odds are NOT equal and it obly makes this more aggrevating. It gives such an advantage to people running broken floodgate reliant decks.
2:38 -And yeah. This is espeiclalt bad too. I hate having ti sit there while they take freaking five minute turns, then on my I get them interupt with floodgate or Cracking and have to pass to them. Then they spend the next five minutes flexing just so they can attack with an easy staple XYZ. They win but not because of that monster. They win vecause they activated Cracking at the first summon of my turn or Mirror wall on my attack.
Floodgates are a result of trying to regulate how fast paste the game has gotten and how unfair it is to go against certain decks. If they want to make the game more fair, instead of making cards that stop your opponent from playing, konami should STOP MAKING GENERIC BOSS MONSTERS and take a look at the rules of the game. Hot take but I’d say start by putting a limit on special summons
I play Domain Monarch our field spell is probably one of the aggreges floodgates in the game you see Domain of the True Monarchs is a field spell that states while I am the only player to control a tribute summoned monster my opponent cannot Special summon from the extra deck pair this with monsters like Vanity's Fiend witch stops both players from special summoning and Majesty's Fiend witch stops either player from activating monster effects both of these cards are level 6 witch means you need to you guessed it tribute summon them and they can be protected via the spell card March of the Monarchs which prevents my opponent from targeting or destroying tribute summoned monsters with card effects this may seem just impossible to out but if you have Harpies Feather Duster or Lightning Storm to take care of the backrow my monsters have no protection and can be easily outed I may sound like a hypocrite when I say this but i don't like floodgates cards however i do think that they are a necessary evil at times
I've said it once... I'll say it a million times. Archetypes need to be xenophobic against other archetypes (with some special cases). Half the issues with Yu-Gi-Oh is one archetype abusing another archetypes card.
bought the Red Dragon Archfiend structure deck last year which just so happens to have that "King Calamity" only for it to be banned. So, i bought the deck and it was for nothing? Thanks Konami