I liked the storyline on Joey's side. His feelings felt sincere and I loved the depth it gave him. It didn’t turn bad until Rachel liked him back. Her feelings felt shallow, like she didn’t really like him.
I think that's a pretty interesting mirror of each actor's feelings about the plotline actually. I think it could've worked better if they'd over exaggerate Rachel's purely physical side of things and then have Joey turn her down because he wanted s more intimate connection
The Rachel-Joey pairing is like the storyline with Brian the Boom mic operator in the last season of the Office. Its so obvious the writers were desperate and running out of ideas
While I wasn't a fan of the Joey and Rachel pairing to begin with, I wish that they'd come up with a better reason for their break up than "They can't perform sexually." It just felt like a cheap reason, since most fans loathed the pairing.
I really disliked season 10 for that reason, everything was so rushed - next episode Joey and Rachel acted as if nothing had happened. As well as Rachel just moving to Paris without a second thought about how her daughter would be half a world away from her dad, and Ross only caring about it because of his renewed feelings towards Rachel, who cares about Emma? Just so much lazy writing there.
i don't think it was the reason they broke up. the fact that they couldn't perform sexually just made them realise that they love each other, but not in a way that romantic coupes usually do. they understood that they love each other as good friends, who confused platonic feelings and deep care for each other with sexual attraction. so they broke up because it made more sense to brake up and be friends again
@@victorix30 Looking back in hindsight after so many years I do feel more on board with Joey & Rachel. They did have more in common and genuinely enjoyed each others company. I think if they had really gone all in and committed to the arcs they could have done something wholesome. Joey's relationship with Rachel could have been the thing that matured him. Also Ross could have had an arc about accepting Joey as a stepfather figure to Emma and him letting go of Rachel. Loving her enough to let her be happy with Joey and moving on.
@victorix30 They absolutely didn't.. their friendship is AMAZING but their romantic relationship is literally based on nothing but just physical attraction
The people who like to now revaluate the character of Ross only point out the "bad" parts that are mostly played for laughs. There are a million examples of Ross being an extremely caring friend, brother and partner to each of the other characters.
Yeah it's exhausting. And his and Rachel's break up and bad behaviour is what makes their relationship so relatable, but people want to re-evaulate it as toxic... where in reality 99% of their problems are reflected in most relationships (even in healthy functional relationships)
I do not want to be that guy, but could you list a few? I just binge-watched the series for the first time this year, and I am struggling to remember some of his better traits. Maybe cause he was flanderized later on. The only thing I can think of was that he was a good dad.
@@dandrive3249Ross is always the first person to help other people when they are struggling or need advice. It's his own stuff that he is terrible at dealing with a lot of times. His ex wife being a lesbian also gave him permanent paranoia with Rachel because he loved her so much and was terrified of losing her.
@@joshz2491 I remember the paranoia is what sabotaged a lot of his relationships. I also think his own pride gets in the way and he doesn’t want to work on his own insecurities. Which is a really big fault and made me start to dislike him near the end. The only exception that comes to mind is the British girl he was going to marry. That mess up was more on Racheal’s end cause she showed up last minute but I digress. I remember some of the cast coming to him for advice like Joey with the museums date. So I’ll give you that.
@@dandrive3249 yeah I agree Ross is very stubborn but I don't think that there is a human being on the planet that finds it easy to admit their faults. Some people are just better at doing that than others. The reason why I think the end the show is great is because Ross and Rachel finally realize that the only thing that matters is being together. This is actually perfectly illustrated when “we were on break” slips out again and they both just give each other that look of oh who the hell cares, this doesn't matter anymore.
That's so creepy the longer I think about it. You date someone for a while but break up and then it alters your dating pool that's so weird allosexuals are you okay I don't think you are
I actually liked how the attraction between Rachel and Joey started, and I think that Joey exploring those feelings could have resulted in really great character growth. Rachel exploring a relationship that was much healthier than her relationship with Ross through Joey’s advances could have led to more growth for her, too, so I don’t mind the pairing, but it seems clear that it would have been doomed from the beginning, and it should have been handled much more deftly if they wanted fans to go along with it. Having said all that, though, I always thought Phoebe and Joey would make a better pairing.
I wasn't a fan of Joey and Rachel, but I was more rooting for them at that point than I was for Ross and Rachel. Ross and Rachel had an extremely toxic and unhealthy relationship at that point, I have no idea why them together was seen as a 'happy ending.'
I think Rachel brought out the worst in Ross. She is so chaotic and possessive. She literally told him not to date anyone while she was pregnant and actively destroyed two of his relationships when he was happy. Who does that?
They went to early with Ross and Rachel getting together. Frasier showed you can execute a secret love over many seasons and make it funny and emotional. Once they are together in season 2 the only thing to do is break them up and storylines get so silly that the idea of Joey and Rachel, more a bro and sis combination, sounds like a good idea
Joey being with Rachel was felt like Joey’s last ditch effort. Phoebe was with Mike, Chandler and Monica was married, Ross and Rachel could figure it out and Joey was alone.
I am not a fan of Rachel and Ross's relationship, but if they were end game, I wish that they had developed it better and longer. Give Ross some character growth, like they did with Chandler and Rachel. Both those characters changed and developed over the seasons into more mature and better versions of themselves. Ross did get the same treatment, he experienced little to no personal change or growing over the seasons. There is no indication that their relationship moving forward would be any different than the first time. They didn't resolve much, and Ross was basically the same guy. Also, now there is the added complication of Rachel giving up an exciting new job and a new adventure, and now they have a child together. All things that create issues and resentment and frustrations, that they are not built to deal with.
I find it strange how current generation want to judge and question prior generations’ shows and favorite characters. These are shows that just mirror that time. It starts to become fool hardy when people want to cancel show or character and not learn to be better from it.
My problem with Ross and Rachel was always more about Rachel than Ross. EVERY time he tried to move on, she'd suddenly want him again. Then, after dumping the new girl, suddenly she wasn't interested again.
Ross was equally bad though. He had unresolved insecure issues that stemmed from his marriage with Carol. Instead of recognising what his problems were he just went and brought it into other relationships💀. He also kind of gave off the vibe that he was more in love with the idea of being with Rachel more than actually being in love with her. I’m not saying that Rachel was a perfect angel either (becuz she wasn’t) but Ross was never the nice guy he always claimed to be. That title goes to Joey because he didn’t have to constantly say it, he actually showed it through his actions towards his friends compared to Ross.
From the very first time she found out he liked her, it was a slip up from Chandler. And then she spent the summer deciding whether she might like him back. Then when he’s trying to decide who to be with (after finally getting a new girlfriend for the first time since Carol) she overreacts about a list and decides not to date him. Then after the breakup she gets him to break up with the new girlfriend and THEN tells him first he has to read and agree to her terms (which were written on 18 pages FRONT AND BACK)
@@bw1775 Ross is the worst. Imagine getting angry at your mrs for her being angry at you for turning up at her new job in the cringiest way possible way.
There was no sexual or romantic chemistry between them. But they were great friends. That chemistry was on point. But then again, Joey was a great friend to everyone.
If you write in that he's happy to kiss his best friends 'girl', then your writing a character that would almost definitely cheat on Rachel in a few years
@@bannnnner Joey really loved her, was even distraught in the ill advised Joey spin off. They really could have written a better ending to that story. It was too rushed and Rachel would have a better life in Paris. I'm sure Rachel and Ross would have split up again as they had done repeatedly thought the show's 10 year run.
Ross got to date Janice and Charlie, and for a short while, Rachel’s sister. I’m not sure how Rachel having one of her besties as a serious love interest would’ve been a problem. Rachel enjoyed what Joey did as a career and would’ve been able to support any of his work functions easily, they always have fun together (like reading each others books, drumming together, enjoying living together). Joey was much more emotionally mature and attuned than Ross and was a better friend to her. They truly would’ve been a better match if they didn’t screw up Joey’s character so badly. He grew up and stepped up when he liked Rachel. More surprisingly he fell in love with her when she was pregnant and couldn’t be sexually intimate. It was all about his heart not superficial. The writers really missed a good opportunity with this one.
Ross was never in love with any of them and like you said, it wasn't meant to last. That's why the actors didn't like the idea of pairing their characters up because they knew it could ruin their friendship (I mean Joey and Rachel) and the fans didn't want that. It worked with Chandler and Monica but it wouldn't work with them because they just didn't have chemistry. And Ross was mature enough to respect their relationship and not do anything to made them break up even though it was killing him inside the moment he knew Joey really liked Rachel and he wouldn't make her suffer he accepted it. Joey remained his friend and Ross stayed cool about it even though he still loved Rachel.
As a fan of friends, I agree with most people about this. But I also understand that the story needed one more obstacle before Ross and Rachel finally end together so I guess the writers HAD TO come up with something unexpected
Then they forget that, while Ross having sex with another woman while he had just broken up with Rachel wasn't ok, he never cheated on her, but we saw Joey at least once cheating on a girl.
I agree. I wish we got at least one season of seeing them as a functional couple showing us how it would be different from before. Could have ended with their wedding instead of Phoebe and Mike's. As much as I liked Mike I, personally, would have been far more invested had it been Rachel and Ross finally getting their shit together and being happy. With them getting back together in such a dramatic way in the last episode it's left to the viewer to assume the happy ending when all we had been shown before that were problems.
I may be the odd one out, but I was never all-in on Ross and Rachel, so during my first watch through, I was kind of rooting for Joey and Rachel. But the show runners CLEARLY didn't want those two as end-game, and it was doomed from the start. I wish they were given a real chance, a la Barney and Robin in HIMYM.
The funny thing is I only watched it a little and thought Joey and Rachel made sense. They were both the ditzy hot ones while Ross was the nerd. But I guess I didn't watch enough to get invested in the relationship.
I actually thought Joey and Rachel were the perfect pairing. He really cared for her. Ross and Rachel were just toxic. Season 8 became one of my favourites. But breaking them up in season 9 was awfulx
I don't particularly like the Joey and Rachel story line. However, I really appreciate the range it allowed Matt le Blanc to show. I really like his acting in season 8.
I actually think they could have been great if it had happened earlier tbh. I genuinely think they had better chemistry, and were healthier than Ross/Rachel
Both Ross and Rachel are way better at relationships by the end of the show. In season 10, Ross is not as possessive as he was on season 3, he is way more chill in his relationship with Mona, for example. Rachel has also grown and has more balance between her work and life. They are subtle tho, there is not episodes focusing on Ross working his problems out, It happens little by little every season.
That's when I stopped watching. I remember seeing the promo for that season and the announcer saying "Rachel and Joey..." in this sentimental tone and I just decided I was done. It was just stupid. I didn't tune back in until the last episode, lol.
I didn’t mind the Joey and Rachel pairing because the characters realized what the audience already knew. I actually thought it was a realistic storyline. It’s common for good friends to consider a romantic dalliances that never come to pass or are short lived.
I have always liked Friends. I think they had at least some chemistry with each other but there was certainly an awkwardness to the way this particular pairing was written and even handled. Incidentally the first time Joey kissed Rachel was in the Season 5 new year’s episode way before this storyline even began and in that scene she was sort of eager to kiss him. I don’t think the idea of Joey and Rachel is entirely bad but it’s not a favorite for me either. I also kinda like how Joey was never officially paired to either Monica or Phoebe. Phoebe would have been a okay choice if you did want to choose someone else from the main cast but I feel like it was ultimately better to make most of Joey’s romances with new characters. This being said Joey and Rachel was also the only Joey love story that lasted that many episodes. If nothing else it should be recognized that Joey did a lot to gain her trust and respect during those episodes and he did a lot of selfless things and he even made the cradle for her daughter. That was my favorite scene for the two characters and it was right in the middle of the storyline about them getting together. Personally in my opinion this scene works for either a friend pair or a romantic pair but that’s just my opinion.
I didnt like the joey and rachel pairing and i didn't like the ross and rachel pairing either. The series shouldve ended with them as just friends and co parents
Alternative take: While thematically contestable, this was one of the only times in the entire show where the writers decided to throw us for a loop, it actually gave a sense of humanity to Joey. It was nice to be surprised.
One of the reasons I believe Joey & Rachel didn't work but Barney & Robin did is because Ross & Rachel were pushed multiple times when Ted & Robin were pushed once or twice. Also, the title of the show was "How I Met Your Mother", which hinted that Ted will not end up with Robin. But F.R.I.E.N.D.S, established that almost the entire cast are friends.
I was never a fan of of any of the couples except Chandler and Monica as I felt that they had the most chemistry. I never liked Ross to begin with, and I’m glad that years later people are finally coming around to my point of view. I was the outlier during the whole 10 seasons as I thought Rachel never should’ve gotten off the plane. I remember getting into an argument with a close friend as she thought that Ross and Rachel were super romantic whereas, I thought they were ill suited, as toxic relationships hadn’t really been a thing back then.
Their toxic behaviour was what made them so relatable, and they weren't BAD enough not to make them work. Most relationships go through jealousy, break ups, regrettable behaviour... and people obviously like to see that reflected in TV, and most relationships can work past the bad bits. I don't want to see a sanitized romance that's all hug and kisses.
The fact that they wrote Ross as so toxic and the relationship so weird, it makes me wonder if any of the writers even knew what a healthy relationship looked like. Looking back, it would have been better to have Ross become more mature and grow out of his toxic behavior. Maybe to finally get the long term commitment with the girl of his dreams?
I end up rewtching this show since its my wife favorites show at least once a year. I always hate this story line and hookup. It just feels wrong, its not funny, doesn't change or developed anything. I am glad they dropped it and didn't try to make it work.
I feel like the sorry worked until the season 8 finale. In fact, that arc helped give me a framework for how to handle a similar situation. But after the accidental engagement pushed it over the cliff.
The things that work for me was what immediately happens after the break up. 1. I felt like Joey was finally getting some development with this story line and I wish it trajected him into something meaningful such as finding his person or making it really big in acting. Instead immediately in the next episode he regresses back into old Joey. 2. Rachel getting with Ross in the next storyline was the icky part for me. They should’ve let the break up between her and Joey settle a little bit before she jumped into it with Ross. Or used it as a moment of self reflection and have her realize she doesn’t want flings anymore
Joey and Rachel had no romantic chemistry which is the reason why it didn’t work, sure the ship was much healthier but the two had no romantic chemistry. Rachel and Ross’s chemistry was unmatched, even though I wish the writers hadn’t ruined their relationship over the course of the show and dragged them out, but their chemistry was really good, and Rachel and Joey weren’t able to match that, they were better off as friends, and I’m glad that the show ended that ridiculous storyline because not only did they have no chemistry but it made no sense for the characters to be together. I mean Jennifer and Matt hated the storyline just as much as the fans did. I really wish that the writers hadn’t ever done this storyline, because Matt was right, the real Joey would never go out with Rachel, they always had a sibling like relationship, which is why it was weird and uncomfortable seeing the romantic scenes. I’m just glad that most people hated it
I always hated this storyline, but I've watched Friends 18 times so far, and honestly, after about 10 times I was actually rooting for them to stay together, even though I know the show won't change no matter how many more times I watch it. It's a storyline that grew on me as much as my distaste for Ross throughout the years.
I don't think the showrunners knew if they would get any more seasons around Season 8. This storyline feels like it's only purpose was to desperately keep the show going a little bit longer. So to think if NBC has cancelled friends with Season 9 it's possible this would have been how the characters ended up. At least in the end everyone (except Joey relationship wise) got everything they wanted.
The problem was that they were trying to keep the original premise of young people dating, but in real life you date in your 20's and partner up in your 30's. Also, they had already mined so many dating situations for laughs that there were diminishing returns. They should have gone the route of Big Bang theory and just have them in relationships and get the stories from that premise. It would be more natural and there would be more to do
I watched this show religiosly back when it came out, it was the first show I ever downloaded episodes on the Internet from. The Rachel Joey thing was the worst thing they did and I actually bailed on the last season, only coming back for the last few episodes when they broke up the Rachel Joey relationship.
They could have had Ross and Rachel get back together in season 8 and genuinely have to contend with their issues for the last 2 seasons. They had so many. Would have filled 2 seasons easily. You could still have Rachel get that Paris job offer and have to decide while she was with him what to do... Dump him for work again or stay.
Ross and Rachel have EVERYTHING in common...except for their careers. I completely get why she's more interested in Ross than Joey, because she has nothing in common with Joey. Rachel breaks up with Ross over a misunderstanding that while very wrong was both their faults. She breaks up with Joey because she doesn't feel the connection with him the way Chandler does with Monica. Rachel gets back together with Ross at the end of the series because she understands that while he hurt her badly, she also hurt him, and this understanding allows them to start up the relationship on a much more stable foundation. That being said, I do feel sad for Joey because he was really in love with Rachel. Too bad Rachel was still in love with Ross. She would never have wanted a long term relationship with Joey so late in the game. I think the only reason Rachel even thought about Joey romantically was because she and Ross called off living together a few episodes earlier. If Ross hadn't been dating Charlie when he saw Rachel and Joey kissing, Rachel would have left Joey in an instant to date Ross again.
At first, I HATED the idea of Joey and Rachel getting together! I was so MAD, when they had their first kiss! I always thought that he should've been with Phoebe. I had also thought at the time, having had a HUGE crush on Joey and Matt Le Blanc, that he should've been with me. Anyway, eventually, I got used to the idea of Joey and Rachel, thinking that maybe it would work. I was a little disappointed when it didn't. Turned out they really were better off as friends. If they had stayed together as a couple, then there wouldn't have been any chance of Ross and Rachel getting back together. And Ross had his moments. He was, at times, a very loving and caring friend, father, and boyfriend. On the other hand, he and Rachel clearly had some unresolved issues. But, in the end, love won. Apparently, the love that Joey and Rachel had for each other was different than the love that Ross and Rachel had for each other.
Monica and Chandler: She's so lucky, he's a star Joey Tribbiani: I'm A Slave 4 U, I cannot hold it, I cannot control it Ross and Rachel: I'm addicted to you, don't you know that you're toxic? Phoebe: Stronger than yesterday/its nothing but my way/ My loneliness ain't killing me no more
Instead, they should have given Joey and Phoebe a chance as a couple. Yeah, maybe having the 3 guys dating the 3 girls would have been too repetitive, but it would have made more sense. I mean the chemistry was right there.
I wish they would have put Monica and Joey together. I felt they had great chemistry and it would have been funnier. The Monica / Chandler couple made them both dull and less of themself.
Joey was a shallow, dumb and foolish lazy actor. Trying to out him front and centre and ignore all that made it quite foolish when you look at Rachael and anyone would want to be with her.
Speaking of Rachel, she should have moved to Paris for her dream job and left Ross back in NYC. They were not good fit for each other. And Rachel will resent Ross as long as they’re together.
I didn't like Joey and Rachel hooking up for the same reason why Matt LeBlanc did not like it. They were all friends. That would never work in real life it was just too weird and I couldn't wait for it to be over. I like RUclipsrs The Take's perspective on the whole Ross and Rachel relationship. And I agree that Rachel should have just gone to Paris.
Their relationship especially sucks because they genuinely had great chemistry, BUT NOT romantically. When they lived together, they had a great brother sister dynamic with similar personalities
Honestly, I found them more plausible (and likable) as a couple than Rachel and Ross. Of course, by that point, Russ was so insufferable I was kinda hoping he’d end up alone and bitter.
I feel like if they had picked this up from their days of living together, developed it and all, it would have been good especially with how sweet joey was during Rachel's pregnancy However they decided to do it in season 10 which was too late at that point and they just instantly freaked out about the idea they had and only made it last for like 2 episodes and ended it in the stupides way Well....this is coming from someone who hates Rachel and Ross's relationship 🙂
I thought Joey and Rachel as a couple felt too weird. Mainly because we were all probably still waiting for Ross to get his head out of his backside and get his act together
Rachel and Joey wouldn't have worked, she wouldve had to mother him and his lack of stability would frustrate her, it would not be fun for anyone. Using hate for Ross as a character to pretend they were compatible in a romantic way is dishonest.
Most people believe this, Rachel and Joey are one of the most hated pairings on the show. The whole Rachel and Joey storyline was so bad, and I wish they had never done it
Ross is such a loser, looking back i got no love for him. But thats the thing about sitcoms, i rarely buy what theyre selling regarding couples. I like rachel and joey in theory but even then i like pheobe and joey more, they have similar chaotic energy
I mean they'd be a good pairing between super serious and laid back but that'd make bad, boring TV. Prefer the causal hookups Joey and Phoebe had over the years.
The last two and half seasons of Friends were a mess in general. There’s a few things I found more annoying than Rachel-Joey. Though, yes, that seemed forced and unnecessary. Aniston and Leblanc did have solid chemistry though. More than anything, the execution of the story was poor.
I liked the storyline on Joey's side. His feelings felt sincere and I loved the depth it gave him. It didn’t turn bad until Rachel liked him back. Her feelings felt shallow, like she didn’t really like him.
I think that's a pretty interesting mirror of each actor's feelings about the plotline actually. I think it could've worked better if they'd over exaggerate Rachel's purely physical side of things and then have Joey turn her down because he wanted s more intimate connection
Yes, BUT... it gave us Ross' greatest freak out! L-O-V-E
"O is for Oh, wow"
what do you mean freak out? he's fine, he said it many times
That's true, the best thing to come out of that infamous arc is David Schwimmer's superb physical comedy.
He’s fine.
@@vicsanderp😂😂😂
The Rachel-Joey pairing is like the storyline with Brian the Boom mic operator in the last season of the Office. Its so obvious the writers were desperate and running out of ideas
I actually liked the mic operator storyline!
Take that back!@@vins1979
While I wasn't a fan of the Joey and Rachel pairing to begin with, I wish that they'd come up with a better reason for their break up than "They can't perform sexually." It just felt like a cheap reason, since most fans loathed the pairing.
I really disliked season 10 for that reason, everything was so rushed - next episode Joey and Rachel acted as if nothing had happened. As well as Rachel just moving to Paris without a second thought about how her daughter would be half a world away from her dad, and Ross only caring about it because of his renewed feelings towards Rachel, who cares about Emma? Just so much lazy writing there.
i don't think it was the reason they broke up. the fact that they couldn't perform sexually just made them realise that they love each other, but not in a way that romantic coupes usually do. they understood that they love each other as good friends, who confused platonic feelings and deep care for each other with sexual attraction. so they broke up because it made more sense to brake up and be friends again
I absolutely adored their pairing, don’t get all the hate, they fit together way better than Ross and Rachel
@@victorix30 Looking back in hindsight after so many years I do feel more on board with Joey & Rachel. They did have more in common and genuinely enjoyed each others company. I think if they had really gone all in and committed to the arcs they could have done something wholesome. Joey's relationship with Rachel could have been the thing that matured him. Also Ross could have had an arc about accepting Joey as a stepfather figure to Emma and him letting go of Rachel. Loving her enough to let her be happy with Joey and moving on.
@victorix30
They absolutely didn't.. their friendship is AMAZING but their romantic relationship is literally based on nothing but just physical attraction
I feel like HIMYM tried to recreate the dynamic between joey and rachel with barney and robin, but they accidentally created the perfect couple
Perfect for 3 years of marriage, at least 😂
Which is why I'm still mad they got broken up.
@@rachelrasmussen1101Yeah it was dumb. Ted and Robin were obviously not meant for eachother
Thank you for saying the perfect couple! I'm still pissed off!
@@onuhrita5009 oh i’ll never forgive them for that BS finale
The people who like to now revaluate the character of Ross only point out the "bad" parts that are mostly played for laughs. There are a million examples of Ross being an extremely caring friend, brother and partner to each of the other characters.
Yeah it's exhausting. And his and Rachel's break up and bad behaviour is what makes their relationship so relatable, but people want to re-evaulate it as toxic... where in reality 99% of their problems are reflected in most relationships (even in healthy functional relationships)
I do not want to be that guy, but could you list a few? I just binge-watched the series for the first time this year, and I am struggling to remember some of his better traits. Maybe cause he was flanderized later on. The only thing I can think of was that he was a good dad.
@@dandrive3249Ross is always the first person to help other people when they are struggling or need advice. It's his own stuff that he is terrible at dealing with a lot of times. His ex wife being a lesbian also gave him permanent paranoia with Rachel because he loved her so much and was terrified of losing her.
@@joshz2491 I remember the paranoia is what sabotaged a lot of his relationships. I also think his own pride gets in the way and he doesn’t want to work on his own insecurities. Which is a really big fault and made me start to dislike him near the end.
The only exception that comes to mind is the British girl he was going to marry. That mess up was more on Racheal’s end cause she showed up last minute but I digress.
I remember some of the cast coming to him for advice like Joey with the museums date. So I’ll give you that.
@@dandrive3249 yeah I agree Ross is very stubborn but I don't think that there is a human being on the planet that finds it easy to admit their faults. Some people are just better at doing that than others. The reason why I think the end the show is great is because Ross and Rachel finally realize that the only thing that matters is being together. This is actually perfectly illustrated when “we were on break” slips out again and they both just give each other that look of oh who the hell cares, this doesn't matter anymore.
LeBlanc is a good man. He knows that no true friend would try to have something with his friend’s ex.
right
That's so creepy the longer I think about it. You date someone for a while but break up and then it alters your dating pool that's so weird allosexuals are you okay I don't think you are
@@Squirreltasticqueen the monogamous ones definitely aren’t.
I actually liked how the attraction between Rachel and Joey started, and I think that Joey exploring those feelings could have resulted in really great character growth. Rachel exploring a relationship that was much healthier than her relationship with Ross through Joey’s advances could have led to more growth for her, too, so I don’t mind the pairing, but it seems clear that it would have been doomed from the beginning, and it should have been handled much more deftly if they wanted fans to go along with it. Having said all that, though, I always thought Phoebe and Joey would make a better pairing.
I wasn't a fan of Joey and Rachel, but I was more rooting for them at that point than I was for Ross and Rachel. Ross and Rachel had an extremely toxic and unhealthy relationship at that point, I have no idea why them together was seen as a 'happy ending.'
I think they complimented themselves pretty well. It's not like they supported each other's bad behaviors or something
Because they loved each other and could finally start a family, leave the drama and be happy?
I think Rachel brought out the worst in Ross. She is so chaotic and possessive. She literally told him not to date anyone while she was pregnant and actively destroyed two of his relationships when he was happy. Who does that?
They went to early with Ross and Rachel getting together. Frasier showed you can execute a secret love over many seasons and make it funny and emotional. Once they are together in season 2 the only thing to do is break them up and storylines get so silly that the idea of Joey and Rachel, more a bro and sis combination, sounds like a good idea
Joey being with Rachel was felt like Joey’s last ditch effort. Phoebe was with Mike, Chandler and Monica was married, Ross and Rachel could figure it out and Joey was alone.
I liked it ^^ and I am so glad Phoebe never was fully paired with Joey.
I am not a fan of Rachel and Ross's relationship, but if they were end game, I wish that they had developed it better and longer. Give Ross some character growth, like they did with Chandler and Rachel. Both those characters changed and developed over the seasons into more mature and better versions of themselves. Ross did get the same treatment, he experienced little to no personal change or growing over the seasons. There is no indication that their relationship moving forward would be any different than the first time. They didn't resolve much, and Ross was basically the same guy. Also, now there is the added complication of Rachel giving up an exciting new job and a new adventure, and now they have a child together. All things that create issues and resentment and frustrations, that they are not built to deal with.
When did Rachel got character growth other than getting a job? In "The one with the videotape" it's VERY clear she didn't grow, at all.
Rachel was more toxic than Ross, she ruined more of Ross's relationships than he did.
It was SO awkward and uncomfortable to watch!! And I didn't even want Ross and Rachel together.
I find it strange how current generation want to judge and question prior generations’ shows and favorite characters. These are shows that just mirror that time. It starts to become fool hardy when people want to cancel show or character and not learn to be better from it.
My problem with Ross and Rachel was always more about Rachel than Ross. EVERY time he tried to move on, she'd suddenly want him again. Then, after dumping the new girl, suddenly she wasn't interested again.
Some women only want you when you see someone else.
Yes, Rachel is the worst
Ross was equally bad though. He had unresolved insecure issues that stemmed from his marriage with Carol. Instead of recognising what his problems were he just went and brought it into other relationships💀. He also kind of gave off the vibe that he was more in love with the idea of being with Rachel more than actually being in love with her. I’m not saying that Rachel was a perfect angel either (becuz she wasn’t)
but Ross was never the nice guy he always claimed to be. That title goes to Joey because he didn’t have to constantly say it, he actually showed it through his actions towards his friends compared to Ross.
From the very first time she found out he liked her, it was a slip up from Chandler. And then she spent the summer deciding whether she might like him back. Then when he’s trying to decide who to be with (after finally getting a new girlfriend for the first time since Carol) she overreacts about a list and decides not to date him. Then after the breakup she gets him to break up with the new girlfriend and THEN tells him first he has to read and agree to her terms (which were written on 18 pages FRONT AND BACK)
@@bw1775 Ross is the worst. Imagine getting angry at your mrs for her being angry at you for turning up at her new job in the cringiest way possible way.
I dont hate the pairing I hate the execution
Same. It was better handled when it was Joey who had feelings for Rachel first in Season 8.
I always thought this was a terrible plot line. As mentioned, it sort of feels out of left field. It's a forced shipping that never made sense.
There was no sexual or romantic chemistry between them. But they were great friends. That chemistry was on point. But then again, Joey was a great friend to everyone.
They would've been a much healthier couple though
If you write in that he's happy to kiss his best friends 'girl', then your writing a character that would almost definitely cheat on Rachel in a few years
@@bannnnner Joey really loved her, was even distraught in the ill advised Joey spin off. They really could have written a better ending to that story. It was too rushed and Rachel would have a better life in Paris. I'm sure Rachel and Ross would have split up again as they had done repeatedly thought the show's 10 year run.
no, they wouldn't
Them going out was a mistake.
Ross got to date Janice and Charlie, and for a short while, Rachel’s sister. I’m not sure how Rachel having one of her besties as a serious love interest would’ve been a problem.
Rachel enjoyed what Joey did as a career and would’ve been able to support any of his work functions easily, they always have fun together (like reading each others books, drumming together, enjoying living together). Joey was much more emotionally mature and attuned than Ross and was a better friend to her.
They truly would’ve been a better match if they didn’t screw up Joey’s character so badly. He grew up and stepped up when he liked Rachel. More surprisingly he fell in love with her when she was pregnant and couldn’t be sexually intimate. It was all about his heart not superficial. The writers really missed a good opportunity with this one.
Ross was never in love with any of them and like you said, it wasn't meant to last. That's why the actors didn't like the idea of pairing their characters up because they knew it could ruin their friendship (I mean Joey and Rachel) and the fans didn't want that. It worked with Chandler and Monica but it wouldn't work with them because they just didn't have chemistry. And Ross was mature enough to respect their relationship and not do anything to made them break up even though it was killing him inside the moment he knew Joey really liked Rachel and he wouldn't make her suffer he accepted it. Joey remained his friend and Ross stayed cool about it even though he still loved Rachel.
As a fan of friends, I agree with most people about this. But I also understand that the story needed one more obstacle before Ross and Rachel finally end together so I guess the writers HAD TO come up with something unexpected
Yeah, that's true, and it was the dumbest one. Like cartoon piano drop on the whole crew.
@@Jokervision744agreed. They could've come up with SOMETHING that made more sense
Then they forget that, while Ross having sex with another woman while he had just broken up with Rachel wasn't ok, he never cheated on her, but we saw Joey at least once cheating on a girl.
Well, Ross was drunk so he clearly wasn't aware of what he was doing.
@@Threeleebird they were on a break :D :D
My wife is a proponent of this pairing. My only real objection to it is i wouldn't want to subject Joey to Rachel.
Haha
I believe the 8th season was the perfect opportunity for Ross and Rachel to get back together
I agree. I wish we got at least one season of seeing them as a functional couple showing us how it would be different from before. Could have ended with their wedding instead of Phoebe and Mike's. As much as I liked Mike I, personally, would have been far more invested had it been Rachel and Ross finally getting their shit together and being happy. With them getting back together in such a dramatic way in the last episode it's left to the viewer to assume the happy ending when all we had been shown before that were problems.
I liked that dynamic. Wish they ended up together
Same! 😭
Must enjoy mediocrity
I may be the odd one out, but I was never all-in on Ross and Rachel, so during my first watch through, I was kind of rooting for Joey and Rachel. But the show runners CLEARLY didn't want those two as end-game, and it was doomed from the start. I wish they were given a real chance, a la Barney and Robin in HIMYM.
Same here! 😢
That was the whole point, we make mistakes in life and how they were able to go back and being good friends was the point of it...
Ross and Rachel 3 shouldn't have been a thing either
Thank you!
Wrong
The funny thing is I only watched it a little and thought Joey and Rachel made sense. They were both the ditzy hot ones while Ross was the nerd.
But I guess I didn't watch enough to get invested in the relationship.
I actually thought Joey and Rachel were the perfect pairing. He really cared for her. Ross and Rachel were just toxic. Season 8 became one of my favourites. But breaking them up in season 9 was awfulx
Jumping the Shark moment!
Great video.
I don't particularly like the Joey and Rachel story line. However, I really appreciate the range it allowed Matt le Blanc to show. I really like his acting in season 8.
I actually think they could have been great if it had happened earlier tbh. I genuinely think they had better chemistry, and were healthier than Ross/Rachel
Better chemistry 😂😂😂😂😂😂 they had none and looked awkward together.
Both Ross and Rachel are way better at relationships by the end of the show. In season 10, Ross is not as possessive as he was on season 3, he is way more chill in his relationship with Mona, for example. Rachel has also grown and has more balance between her work and life.
They are subtle tho, there is not episodes focusing on Ross working his problems out, It happens little by little every season.
That's when I stopped watching. I remember seeing the promo for that season and the announcer saying "Rachel and Joey..." in this sentimental tone and I just decided I was done. It was just stupid. I didn't tune back in until the last episode, lol.
I didn’t mind the Joey and Rachel pairing because the characters realized what the audience already knew. I actually thought it was a realistic storyline. It’s common for good friends to consider a romantic dalliances that never come to pass or are short lived.
I have always liked Friends. I think they had at least some chemistry with each other but there was certainly an awkwardness to the way this particular pairing was written and even handled. Incidentally the first time Joey kissed Rachel was in the Season 5 new year’s episode way before this storyline even began and in that scene she was sort of eager to kiss him. I don’t think the idea of Joey and Rachel is entirely bad but it’s not a favorite for me either. I also kinda like how Joey was never officially paired to either Monica or Phoebe. Phoebe would have been a okay choice if you did want to choose someone else from the main cast but I feel like it was ultimately better to make most of Joey’s romances with new characters. This being said Joey and Rachel was also the only Joey love story that lasted that many episodes. If nothing else it should be recognized that Joey did a lot to gain her trust and respect during those episodes and he did a lot of selfless things and he even made the cradle for her daughter. That was my favorite scene for the two characters and it was right in the middle of the storyline about them getting together. Personally in my opinion this scene works for either a friend pair or a romantic pair but that’s just my opinion.
I didn’t mind this storyline at all. It was always going to be Ross and Rachel.
I didnt like the joey and rachel pairing and i didn't like the ross and rachel pairing either. The series shouldve ended with them as just friends and co parents
Yeah I prefer joey and Rachel to Ross and Rachel
Alternative take: While thematically contestable, this was one of the only times in the entire show where the writers decided to throw us for a loop, it actually gave a sense of humanity to Joey.
It was nice to be surprised.
One of the reasons I believe Joey & Rachel didn't work but Barney & Robin did is because Ross & Rachel were pushed multiple times when Ted & Robin were pushed once or twice. Also, the title of the show was "How I Met Your Mother", which hinted that Ted will not end up with Robin. But F.R.I.E.N.D.S, established that almost the entire cast are friends.
“How you doin?”
I was never a fan of of any of the couples except Chandler and Monica as I felt that they had the most chemistry. I never liked Ross to begin with, and I’m glad that years later people are finally coming around to my point of view. I was the outlier during the whole 10 seasons as I thought Rachel never should’ve gotten off the plane. I remember getting into an argument with a close friend as she thought that Ross and Rachel were super romantic whereas, I thought they were ill suited, as toxic relationships hadn’t really been a thing back then.
Their toxic behaviour was what made them so relatable, and they weren't BAD enough not to make them work. Most relationships go through jealousy, break ups, regrettable behaviour... and people obviously like to see that reflected in TV, and most relationships can work past the bad bits. I don't want to see a sanitized romance that's all hug and kisses.
@@bannnnnerif done right it can be entertaining and interesting.
The fact that they wrote Ross as so toxic and the relationship so weird, it makes me wonder if any of the writers even knew what a healthy relationship looked like. Looking back, it would have been better to have Ross become more mature and grow out of his toxic behavior. Maybe to finally get the long term commitment with the girl of his dreams?
I end up rewtching this show since its my wife favorites show at least once a year. I always hate this story line and hookup. It just feels wrong, its not funny, doesn't change or developed anything. I am glad they dropped it and didn't try to make it work.
This is when I stopped watching. Maybe I’ll watch those seasons I missed one day.
I feel like the sorry worked until the season 8 finale. In fact, that arc helped give me a framework for how to handle a similar situation. But after the accidental engagement pushed it over the cliff.
The things that work for me was what immediately happens after the break up.
1. I felt like Joey was finally getting some development with this story line and I wish it trajected him into something meaningful such as finding his person or making it really big in acting. Instead immediately in the next episode he regresses back into old Joey.
2. Rachel getting with Ross in the next storyline was the icky part for me. They should’ve let the break up between her and Joey settle a little bit before she jumped into it with Ross. Or used it as a moment of self reflection and have her realize she doesn’t want flings anymore
I feel like Boy Meets World was similar, Corey was pretty unlikable and toxic in later seasons with Topanga. But they were "meant to be"
Joey and Rachel had no romantic chemistry which is the reason why it didn’t work, sure the ship was much healthier but the two had no romantic chemistry. Rachel and Ross’s chemistry was unmatched, even though I wish the writers hadn’t ruined their relationship over the course of the show and dragged them out, but their chemistry was really good, and Rachel and Joey weren’t able to match that, they were better off as friends, and I’m glad that the show ended that ridiculous storyline because not only did they have no chemistry but it made no sense for the characters to be together. I mean Jennifer and Matt hated the storyline just as much as the fans did. I really wish that the writers hadn’t ever done this storyline, because Matt was right, the real Joey would never go out with Rachel, they always had a sibling like relationship, which is why it was weird and uncomfortable seeing the romantic scenes. I’m just glad that most people hated it
Thank god they didn't go further with this storyline. It's best they're good friends
I always hated this storyline, but I've watched Friends 18 times so far, and honestly, after about 10 times I was actually rooting for them to stay together, even though I know the show won't change no matter how many more times I watch it. It's a storyline that grew on me as much as my distaste for Ross throughout the years.
I don't think the showrunners knew if they would get any more seasons around Season 8. This storyline feels like it's only purpose was to desperately keep the show going a little bit longer. So to think if NBC has cancelled friends with Season 9 it's possible this would have been how the characters ended up. At least in the end everyone (except Joey relationship wise) got everything they wanted.
Me when I see a new Nerdstalgic video “How you doin?”
The problem was that they were trying to keep the original premise of young people dating, but in real life you date in your 20's and partner up in your 30's. Also, they had already mined so many dating situations for laughs that there were diminishing returns. They should have gone the route of Big Bang theory and just have them in relationships and get the stories from that premise. It would be more natural and there would be more to do
nice footage from 'Joey'
As a one sided Joey storyline, it was quite nice. But as a pairing .. I dunno.. it felt nicer as a sweet, quiet, unrequited thing
I watched this show religiosly back when it came out, it was the first show I ever downloaded episodes on the Internet from. The Rachel Joey thing was the worst thing they did and I actually bailed on the last season, only coming back for the last few episodes when they broke up the Rachel Joey relationship.
They could have had Ross and Rachel get back together in season 8 and genuinely have to contend with their issues for the last 2 seasons. They had so many. Would have filled 2 seasons easily. You could still have Rachel get that Paris job offer and have to decide while she was with him what to do... Dump him for work again or stay.
I always forget this happened in the show 😅
5:12 Wait a minute.......But they did say "I love you" to each other!
Ross and Rachel have EVERYTHING in common...except for their careers. I completely get why she's more interested in Ross than Joey, because she has nothing in common with Joey. Rachel breaks up with Ross over a misunderstanding that while very wrong was both their faults. She breaks up with Joey because she doesn't feel the connection with him the way Chandler does with Monica.
Rachel gets back together with Ross at the end of the series because she understands that while he hurt her badly, she also hurt him, and this understanding allows them to start up the relationship on a much more stable foundation.
That being said, I do feel sad for Joey because he was really in love with Rachel. Too bad Rachel was still in love with Ross. She would never have wanted a long term relationship with Joey so late in the game. I think the only reason Rachel even thought about Joey romantically was because she and Ross called off living together a few episodes earlier. If Ross hadn't been dating Charlie when he saw Rachel and Joey kissing, Rachel would have left Joey in an instant to date Ross again.
The IA enhancement you did on the image looks HORRIBLE
At first, I HATED the idea of Joey and Rachel getting together! I was so MAD, when they had their first kiss! I always thought that he should've been with Phoebe. I had also thought at the time, having had a HUGE crush on Joey and Matt Le Blanc, that he should've been with me. Anyway, eventually, I got used to the idea of Joey and Rachel, thinking that maybe it would work. I was a little disappointed when it didn't. Turned out they really were better off as friends. If they had stayed together as a couple, then there wouldn't have been any chance of Ross and Rachel getting back together. And Ross had his moments. He was, at times, a very loving and caring friend, father, and boyfriend. On the other hand, he and Rachel clearly had some unresolved issues. But, in the end, love won. Apparently, the love that Joey and Rachel had for each other was different than the love that Ross and Rachel had for each other.
Its funny that Ross and rachel were the "main couple" of the series, yet Monica and Chandler were the one fans actually got behind.
Monica and Chandler: She's so lucky, he's a star
Joey Tribbiani: I'm A Slave 4 U, I cannot hold it, I cannot control it
Ross and Rachel: I'm addicted to you, don't you know that you're toxic?
Phoebe: Stronger than yesterday/its nothing but my way/ My loneliness ain't killing me no more
Just because you Can, doesn't mean you Should.
Instead, they should have given Joey and Phoebe a chance as a couple.
Yeah, maybe having the 3 guys dating the 3 girls would have been too repetitive, but it would have made more sense. I mean the chemistry was right there.
BY FAR the *cringeiest* few episodes of the entire series. it made me soooo uncomfortable.
I wish they would have put Monica and Joey together. I felt they had great chemistry and it would have been funnier. The Monica / Chandler couple made them both dull and less of themself.
The feud between Rachel and Ross on a break or not went on way too long.
Joey was a shallow, dumb and foolish lazy actor. Trying to out him front and centre and ignore all that made it quite foolish when you look at Rachael and anyone would want to be with her.
Lazy actor? Joey was constantly working to land parts. Fuck are you talking about?
what we wanted: Joey x Phoebe
what we got: Joey x Rachel
Rachel and Joey is Blaine and the bear from glee at the end of the series , we know it won't last but still hits smh
I never liked the character of Ross. But the actor has incredible, skilled and hilarious comedic timing. It’s sooo spot on every time
Speaking of Rachel, she should have moved to Paris for her dream job and left Ross back in NYC. They were not good fit for each other. And Rachel will resent Ross as long as they’re together.
I didn't like Joey and Rachel hooking up for the same reason why Matt LeBlanc did not like it. They were all friends. That would never work in real life it was just too weird and I couldn't wait for it to be over.
I like RUclipsrs The Take's perspective on the whole Ross and Rachel relationship. And I agree that Rachel should have just gone to Paris.
Their relationship especially sucks because they genuinely had great chemistry, BUT NOT romantically. When they lived together, they had a great brother sister dynamic with similar personalities
Honestly, I found them more plausible (and likable) as a couple than Rachel and Ross. Of course, by that point, Russ was so insufferable I was kinda hoping he’d end up alone and bitter.
I feel like if they had picked this up from their days of living together, developed it and all, it would have been good especially with how sweet joey was during Rachel's pregnancy
However they decided to do it in season 10 which was too late at that point and they just instantly freaked out about the idea they had and only made it last for like 2 episodes and ended it in the stupides way
Well....this is coming from someone who hates Rachel and Ross's relationship 🙂
I thought Joey and Rachel as a couple felt too weird. Mainly because we were all probably still waiting for Ross to get his head out of his backside and get his act together
Why did work in scrubs then Eliot and JD brother?
My hot take……..
I actually like them as a potential couple😅 at least better than last season Ross and Rachel.
Rachel and Joey wouldn't have worked, she wouldve had to mother him and his lack of stability would frustrate her, it would not be fun for anyone. Using hate for Ross as a character to pretend they were compatible in a romantic way is dishonest.
To be fair, everyone's had a "why not?" relationship
Nah, Monica and Chandler.
Finally. Someone said it.
Most people believe this, Rachel and Joey are one of the most hated pairings on the show. The whole Rachel and Joey storyline was so bad, and I wish they had never done it
Ross is such a loser, looking back i got no love for him. But thats the thing about sitcoms, i rarely buy what theyre selling regarding couples. I like rachel and joey in theory but even then i like pheobe and joey more, they have similar chaotic energy
I loved them. Ross is a jackass and I always think that they should be together because Joey actually loved Rachel. Ross hates her.
I mean they'd be a good pairing between super serious and laid back but that'd make bad, boring TV.
Prefer the causal hookups Joey and Phoebe had over the years.
The last two and half seasons of Friends were a mess in general. There’s a few things I found more annoying than Rachel-Joey. Though, yes, that seemed forced and unnecessary. Aniston and Leblanc did have solid chemistry though. More than anything, the execution of the story was poor.
I don't particularly like Ross, but Joey/Rachel still gives me the ick.
The only relationship worse than this was Ross and Rachel after season 2. Such toxic people, ESPECIALLY ROSS
Chandler and Monica was the beginning of a huge writing quality decline .
It died after 'london baby!'
I didn’t like it, the ‘proposal’ kinda came out of nowhere. but appreciate that the writers tried to take the show in another direction.
I don't know, on rewatch they were cute together, specially with how unbereable Ross became.