Yup. I wasn't aware of that until after I finished reading the book and was looking stuff up about the book online. Terrible definitely! But like Timothy Swabb said above, the author is dead and profits now get donated. So a little peace of mind
@@timswabbThat is not true. I have heard that the estate donates the profits from Mists to Save The Children. But I am the only daughter, and I am not connected to either the estate, nor to Save The Children.
SPOILERS AHEAD (Please keep in mind I haven't read these books in 15 years or so. Oh, and I've only read MZB in Portuguese, so please excuse me if the names of the characters aren't precise in English.) "The Mists of Avalon" was once my favorite book. (I was a teen going through a really intense feminist phase.) I read it many times, cover to cover. Time passed and I started enjoying "The Fall of Atlantis" (a prequel to "The Mists of Avalon") a lot more. A few more years later, some aspects regarding Marion Zimmer Bradley and her work annoy me immensely, to the point that I've donated all her books in my collection. (I was going through a die-hard decluttering phase.) The details about her private life are awful and, yes, I can see a lot of deliberate propaganda against Christianity in "Mists". Gwenwyfar, in my opinion, is written with the sole purpose of being hated, while Morgane is sort of "justified" in many of her morally questionable acts, as if she were just being reasonable all along. This is not the only contrast of the sort in the story: take the druid Taliesin and the Christian bishop in Ygraine's household, for instance. Throughout the book, Christians are described as ignorant and narrow minded, but the pagan priestesses in general are well written, complex and interesting characters. The book has the same bias in its treatment of men and women. It mainly gives you the female point of view, glossing over so, so much. Urien and Uwaine are two examples of this. They are essentially good people, or at least people trying their best to be good, who get trampled over by Morgane. And she casually discards them as simpletons. Argh. The epilogue in Glastonbury (with paganism finding a way to sneak into Christian practices, as some form of religious guerilla) and episodes like the death of Priscilla (mother of Balin and Balan) sound like provocation from the "losers" against the "winners". This dichotomy bothers me. However, I have to admit that the descriptions of Avalon and the land of the fairies (where Morgane spends a few days, coming out years later) are entrancing. They were my first contact with contemporary fantasy and I love them still. Recently, I've been considering a reread of "Mists", perhaps in English, to check if my memories of the book have been distorted by time. However, I plan to read "Le Morte d'Arthur", "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" and some other medieval works first, to have a better understanding of the source material MZB had to work with.
I also read in Portuguese eheh. Here in Portugal a bunch of people in late 90 and early 00 the wiccans movement (if you can call it that) and this book was a must.
I originally read-and reread many times-The Mists in French, as with most books of the series (I also love The Fall of Atlantis), until Sword of Avalon, which is when I was a lot more comfortable reading in English. Admitedly, I did not finish Sword of Avalon and found how it was written to be quite poor and so different in quality from the earlier books. I have wondered if it was because the translation made the text feel of better quality. I could read the Mists in English and compare, but now I am just afraid to find out it is the translation... Also, I was today-years-old when I found out that her name isn't 'Gwen-wee-far', but 'Gwe-na-fyr'
I've been hestitant to read this because of all the controversy/allegations surrounding the author. But I saw another comment saying the author and her husband (ex?) are now both deceased and that profits now don't go towards her. I'll have to do my own research to see if it's true, which would be a good thing.
MZB's been dead for well over 20 years and Walter H. Breen died nearly 30 years ago, so I doubt either of them will get any of the profits generated nowadays. ;-)
@@jensraab2902 The woman MZB had as long time partner is getting all the money off any new sales. She didn't abuse the kids, but did ignore the kids being abused.
Gwenefyr was not naturally barren tho. Remember Margause had one of Gwenefyr's attendants put in her wine "medicine" to make sure she didn't conceive or if she did to have miscarriage.
If you want to read a good King Arthur story, probably the best one is The Once and Future King. It begins almost like a children’s book, and ends with the complexity of Game of Thrones. It’s very very good
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 The Once and future King is a good read. It also was written by someone who didn't act out kink and sexual use of minors in real life in addition to writing about them.
I enjoyed this one more than you did, although your criticisms are valid. My favorite Arthur retelling is by far The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell. It’s a work of historical fiction and is masterful.
I haven't read The Once and Future King, but my understanding is that it is more a traditional take on Arthurian Legend. So reading both of those books would probably be pretty interesting getting the unique perspectives on the stories
I first read The Mists of Avalon over 30 years ago. One of my favourite books of all time. I've read it 11 times, but it's been a long time since I last read it. It would be interesting to read it again in light of your review.
Read this when I was a teen. Loved it then but it’s been a long time. I did recommend it to a friend a few years ago after he spoke about his love of Arthurian legends, and he enjoyed it.
Cool glad you liked the book! Agreed, if you are a fan of Arthurian Legend then this book would probably be right up your alley. Honestly if I had read another, more traditional King Arthur book, I probably would have enjoyed this book more than I did
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 Honestly, I could hate it now. In many ways my tastes have changed. I’ve read quite a few Arthurian legends - it was a phase - and it was the only one that was memorable for me. I doubt I’ll reread it anytime soon if ever. Too much to read and too little time!
This review was spot-on. This book was disturbing in more than one way, but I also couldn’t drop it because of its unique take on the retelling from a female lens. Morgaine was a well-rounded, if not flawed, protagonist. In most Arthurian stories she’s a clear antagonist, so I appreciate that this book not only let us empathize with her, but also didn’t turn Arthur nor Lancelot into villains. On the contrary, Arthur in particular is too pure and gifted for his own good. I also like the fact that both male and female characters are allowed to be morally grey. I do agree that Gwenhwyfar is unbearable and annoying, but I occasionally had pity on her. She was sheltered in her upbringing, and her religion-induced repressions drive most of the conflicts and tragedy of her character. That being said, I was relieved whenever her chapters came to an end because in terms of redeeming qualities, she had virtually nothing to offer. Igraine’s arc, on the other hand, was an enchanting self-contained love story with a creative blend of historic pagan elements, including Stonehenge. Guilt drives the character from Garlois’s death onwards, but unlike Anna Karenina’s tragic end, Igraine chooses reclusion in a monastery once the charming Uther Pendragon dies. She was an ineffective mother, so I was disappointed that her character didn’t amount to much after a promising start. Nimue and her sacrifice to seduce Kevin is not discussed enough. Of all the twisted aspects of the story, this side plot left me scarred, but also horrifyingly invested. The most interesting theme of the novel is probably the gradual disappearance of Pagan traditions, supplanted by Christianity. However, while pervasive to the plot development, I don’t think the theme was explored to sufficient depth to elevate this cult classic to a must-read title.
MZB beat and sexual abused her own and other children. You should Mention Moria Greyland's book "The Last Closet" as she is very much alive and had her story confirmed by siblings. MZB female partner turned a blind eye to some truly awful behavior and is still alive to get money from fresh sales. It seems appropriate to recommend used copies of the book for the nostalgic Wiccans and SCA member who want to read this again. I ran in or near both of the circles where MZB was an icon back in the day, and don't know a single person who can stomach this book now.
The fantasy reading group I'm in got the news about Ms. Bradley's horrific personal life two years ago. Some were gutted, but I never like the book enough to get very far in it. We just got the news that the woman Ms. Bradley had a long relationship with was still very much alive and cashing checks from new sales of the book. Do not buy a new copy of this book unless you feel like supporting someone willing to overlook a partner beating and raping children.
Kinda funny Lancelot in the original King Arthur was described as rather ugly. I Am a big fan of Arthurian legends, which is why I never want to read this book.
That is fair. I can see how being a fan of Arthurian Legend you would want to avoid this book since it can taint your opinion of some aspects of King Arthur's story. That being said, it still is a unique take on an established story.
I saw the movie years ago. The only thing I remember is the fact that Morgaine and Arthur have sex. I was very young when I saw it, so it was traumatising. 🤮 I was never interested in reading this book.
Ugh...I bet that was a turn off. I haven't heard much of anything positive on the adaption either so can't imagine it would want anyone to read the book after watching it
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 yeah, siblings having sex is total no for me. I had a really hard time watching GoT at first. Because of the first episode.. 🤢
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 No. They go to MZB's late life same sex partner who turned a blind eye to some really awful things. I just found this out from one of the people gutted by the news of MZB's private life. I did a search on my own, and finished it really angry.
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 can you make videos about cosmere Brandon Sanderson Make videos about best fantasy fiction Which are highly rated on goodreads or just high rated in general
Haha not nearly as much as some other people. But I have read 11 so far this year, which means I am on track to beat my record of 20 in a year! It helps reading smaller books though. 900 page books like this one are a bear to get through
Ive a book suggestion for you.read the Qur'an ( holy book for muslims). And share your honest opinion on it.you can read the translation of 'The Clear Qur'an' by Dr.Mustafa Khattab. Tnx.
I actually did read the Quran a while ago. It was when I was reading a bunch of different religious books out of curiosity. But that was definitely a while ago and I would probably need to reread it
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 Awesome. So basically in Islamic theology there's only God worthy of worship and God send many many prophets to deliver his monotheistic message like Moses, Jesus, Abraham etc (peace be upon them all). We acknowledge them all as human prophet and last prophet,prophet Mohammad (pbuh) came with Qur'an as for all humanity. But I hope you will read and study it and do review of it.it would be interesting and if you had any query then let me know. Tnx
It's being hard follow Mists of Avalon and Zimmer Bradley after the revelations about her daugther, but is a book i love
If it makes you feel better, her daughter and publisher both donate to Save the Children. MZB is no longer alive to profit from the books.
Yup. I wasn't aware of that until after I finished reading the book and was looking stuff up about the book online. Terrible definitely! But like Timothy Swabb said above, the author is dead and profits now get donated. So a little peace of mind
She also abused her son.
@@timswabbThat is not true. I have heard that the estate donates the profits from Mists to Save The Children. But I am the only daughter, and I am not connected to either the estate, nor to Save The Children.
@@Jon-1005yes she did. Both her sons, and every young woman she could get her mitts on. May God forgive her.
1:01 actual genius way of breaking up the vid so I can only watch the non spoiler section. Thanks dude
SPOILERS AHEAD (Please keep in mind I haven't read these books in 15 years or so. Oh, and I've only read MZB in Portuguese, so please excuse me if the names of the characters aren't precise in English.)
"The Mists of Avalon" was once my favorite book. (I was a teen going through a really intense feminist phase.) I read it many times, cover to cover.
Time passed and I started enjoying "The Fall of Atlantis" (a prequel to "The Mists of Avalon") a lot more.
A few more years later, some aspects regarding Marion Zimmer Bradley and her work annoy me immensely, to the point that I've donated all her books in my collection. (I was going through a die-hard decluttering phase.) The details about her private life are awful and, yes, I can see a lot of deliberate propaganda against Christianity in "Mists".
Gwenwyfar, in my opinion, is written with the sole purpose of being hated, while Morgane is sort of "justified" in many of her morally questionable acts, as if she were just being reasonable all along.
This is not the only contrast of the sort in the story: take the druid Taliesin and the Christian bishop in Ygraine's household, for instance. Throughout the book, Christians are described as ignorant and narrow minded, but the pagan priestesses in general are well written, complex and interesting characters.
The book has the same bias in its treatment of men and women. It mainly gives you the female point of view, glossing over so, so much. Urien and Uwaine are two examples of this. They are essentially good people, or at least people trying their best to be good, who get trampled over by Morgane. And she casually discards them as simpletons. Argh.
The epilogue in Glastonbury (with paganism finding a way to sneak into Christian practices, as some form of religious guerilla) and episodes like the death of Priscilla (mother of Balin and Balan) sound like provocation from the "losers" against the "winners". This dichotomy bothers me.
However, I have to admit that the descriptions of Avalon and the land of the fairies (where Morgane spends a few days, coming out years later) are entrancing. They were my first contact with contemporary fantasy and I love them still. Recently, I've been considering a reread of "Mists", perhaps in English, to check if my memories of the book have been distorted by time. However, I plan to read "Le Morte d'Arthur", "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" and some other medieval works first, to have a better understanding of the source material MZB had to work with.
Yes! If the goal was to make Gwenhwyfar a terrible character the reader will hate, then mission accomplished!
I also read in Portuguese eheh. Here in Portugal a bunch of people in late 90 and early 00 the wiccans movement (if you can call it that) and this book was a must.
I originally read-and reread many times-The Mists in French, as with most books of the series (I also love The Fall of Atlantis), until Sword of Avalon, which is when I was a lot more comfortable reading in English. Admitedly, I did not finish Sword of Avalon and found how it was written to be quite poor and so different in quality from the earlier books. I have wondered if it was because the translation made the text feel of better quality. I could read the Mists in English and compare, but now I am just afraid to find out it is the translation...
Also, I was today-years-old when I found out that her name isn't 'Gwen-wee-far', but 'Gwe-na-fyr'
I've been hestitant to read this because of all the controversy/allegations surrounding the author. But I saw another comment saying the author and her husband (ex?) are now both deceased and that profits now don't go towards her. I'll have to do my own research to see if it's true, which would be a good thing.
MZB's been dead for well over 20 years and Walter H. Breen died nearly 30 years ago, so I doubt either of them will get any of the profits generated nowadays. ;-)
@@jensraab2902 The woman MZB had as long time partner is getting all the money off any new sales. She didn't abuse the kids, but did ignore the kids being abused.
Gwenefyr was not naturally barren tho. Remember Margause had one of Gwenefyr's attendants put in her wine "medicine" to make sure she didn't conceive or if she did to have miscarriage.
Viviane also somehow ‘summoned’ Gwynhwyfar to Avalon on the day that Lancelet and Morgaine were out on the Tor. Many were manipulating Gwenhwyfar.
If you want to read a good King Arthur story, probably the best one is The Once and Future King. It begins almost like a children’s book, and ends with the complexity of Game of Thrones. It’s very very good
Awesome, thank you for the recommendation!
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 The Once and future King is a good read. It also was written by someone who didn't act out kink and sexual use of minors in real life in addition to writing about them.
I enjoyed this one more than you did, although your criticisms are valid. My favorite Arthur retelling is by far The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell. It’s a work of historical fiction and is masterful.
Thanks, I'll check out The Warlord Chronicles! :)
Weird question.
Could I read Mists as well as T.H White’s the once and future King’s books?
I haven't read The Once and Future King, but my understanding is that it is more a traditional take on Arthurian Legend. So reading both of those books would probably be pretty interesting getting the unique perspectives on the stories
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 It's well written and fun.
I first read The Mists of Avalon over 30 years ago. One of my favourite books of all time. I've read it 11 times, but it's been a long time since I last read it. It would be interesting to read it again in light of your review.
See the information about the author and who still gets the money from new sales before you decide to let the author back in your mind.
Read this when I was a teen. Loved it then but it’s been a long time. I did recommend it to a friend a few years ago after he spoke about his love of Arthurian legends, and he enjoyed it.
Cool glad you liked the book! Agreed, if you are a fan of Arthurian Legend then this book would probably be right up your alley. Honestly if I had read another, more traditional King Arthur book, I probably would have enjoyed this book more than I did
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 Honestly, I could hate it now. In many ways my tastes have changed. I’ve read quite a few Arthurian legends - it was a phase - and it was the only one that was memorable for me. I doubt I’ll reread it anytime soon if ever. Too much to read and too little time!
Can you show us your book collection ?
I will try to do a video on that. I have my bookshelf in my closet since that is the one area where my toddler can't get to
This review was spot-on. This book was disturbing in more than one way, but I also couldn’t drop it because of its unique take on the retelling from a female lens. Morgaine was a well-rounded, if not flawed, protagonist. In most Arthurian stories she’s a clear antagonist, so I appreciate that this book not only let us empathize with her, but also didn’t turn Arthur nor Lancelot into villains. On the contrary, Arthur in particular is too pure and gifted for his own good. I also like the fact that both male and female characters are allowed to be morally grey.
I do agree that Gwenhwyfar is unbearable and annoying, but I occasionally had pity on her. She was sheltered in her upbringing, and her religion-induced repressions drive most of the conflicts and tragedy of her character. That being said, I was relieved whenever her chapters came to an end because in terms of redeeming qualities, she had virtually nothing to offer.
Igraine’s arc, on the other hand, was an enchanting self-contained love story with a creative blend of historic pagan elements, including Stonehenge. Guilt drives the character from Garlois’s death onwards, but unlike Anna Karenina’s tragic end, Igraine chooses reclusion in a monastery once the charming Uther Pendragon dies. She was an ineffective mother, so I was disappointed that her character didn’t amount to much after a promising start.
Nimue and her sacrifice to seduce Kevin is not discussed enough. Of all the twisted aspects of the story, this side plot left me scarred, but also horrifyingly invested.
The most interesting theme of the novel is probably the gradual disappearance of Pagan traditions, supplanted by Christianity. However, while pervasive to the plot development, I don’t think the theme was explored to sufficient depth to elevate this cult classic to a must-read title.
MZB beat and sexual abused her own and other children. You should Mention Moria Greyland's book "The Last Closet" as she is very much alive and had her story confirmed by siblings. MZB female partner turned a blind eye to some truly awful behavior and is still alive to get money from fresh sales. It seems appropriate to recommend used copies of the book for the nostalgic Wiccans and SCA member who want to read this again. I ran in or near both of the circles where MZB was an icon back in the day, and don't know a single person who can stomach this book now.
Can't read it because of what we know about her
I had this sitting in my bookcase for years and years .... pretty sure it's gone now
You didn't miss out on much ;)
The fantasy reading group I'm in got the news about Ms. Bradley's horrific personal life two years ago. Some were gutted, but I never like the book enough to get very far in it. We just got the news that the woman Ms. Bradley had a long relationship with was still very much alive and cashing checks from new sales of the book. Do not buy a new copy of this book unless you feel like supporting someone willing to overlook a partner beating and raping children.
Nice.
Can you post some Sanderson stuff?😁
Thank you! Yes I have ideas for more Sanderson skits. And maybe some reviews of his books 👍
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 that would be totally awesome. 😁
Kinda funny Lancelot in the original King Arthur was described as rather ugly. I Am a big fan of Arthurian legends, which is why I never want to read this book.
That is fair. I can see how being a fan of Arthurian Legend you would want to avoid this book since it can taint your opinion of some aspects of King Arthur's story. That being said, it still is a unique take on an established story.
I love Arthurian legends and highly recommend this book. It is a lovely adaptation of Arthurian legend.
I saw the movie years ago. The only thing I remember is the fact that Morgaine and Arthur have sex. I was very young when I saw it, so it was traumatising. 🤮 I was never interested in reading this book.
Ugh...I bet that was a turn off. I haven't heard much of anything positive on the adaption either so can't imagine it would want anyone to read the book after watching it
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 yeah, siblings having sex is total no for me. I had a really hard time watching GoT at first. Because of the first episode.. 🤢
React on " The Poppy War "
Never read it, but is on my list of books to read 😉
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 ❤️
It will always be a popular causes’ book.
Great review!
Thank you!
It was a great book.
moira greyland makes me want to burn this book
If it is any consolation, the author is dead and profits for this book (supposedly) get donated
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 Great thought!
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 No. They go to MZB's late life same sex partner who turned a blind eye to some really awful things. I just found this out from one of the people gutted by the news of MZB's private life. I did a search on my own, and finished it really angry.
Awesome 👏🏻
Thank you!
@@miketravelsnowhere6557 can you make videos about cosmere Brandon Sanderson
Make videos about best fantasy fiction
Which are highly rated on goodreads or just high rated in general
@@vinodvagadurgi414 Absolutely! I have ideas for Sanderson videos/reviews. Good idea for looking at Goodreads for highly rated fantasy books too!
Please review some Indian books
Any recommendations in particular?
You read a lot of books
Haha not nearly as much as some other people. But I have read 11 so far this year, which means I am on track to beat my record of 20 in a year! It helps reading smaller books though. 900 page books like this one are a bear to get through
Ive a book suggestion for you.read the Qur'an ( holy book for muslims). And share your honest opinion on it.you can read the translation of 'The Clear Qur'an' by Dr.Mustafa Khattab.
Tnx.
I actually did read the Quran a while ago. It was when I was reading a bunch of different religious books out of curiosity. But that was definitely a while ago and I would probably need to reread it
@@miketravelsnowhere6557
Awesome. So basically in Islamic theology there's only God worthy of worship and God send many many prophets to deliver his monotheistic message like Moses, Jesus, Abraham etc (peace be upon them all). We acknowledge them all as human prophet and last prophet,prophet Mohammad (pbuh) came with Qur'an as for all humanity.
But I hope you will read and study it and do review of it.it would be interesting and if you had any query then let me know.
Tnx