WN@TL - How New Discoveries of Homo naledi are Changing Human Origins
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- (10/04/2017) John Hawks, UW-Madison Anthropology. The Rising Star cave system in South Africa contains the largest known assemblage of fossil human relatives ever found in Africa, all belonging to a previously unknown species, Homo naledi. Earlier this year, the Rising Star research team revealed that these fossils may be as recent as 236,000 years old, meaning that this primitive extinct species existed around the same time as the origin of modern humans. The team also announced the discovery of a second bone chamber with more remains of H. naledi - including a nearly complete skeleton they named Neo. Professor Hawks will discuss how these findings change our view of human evolution. He is returning from the excavation in September and will give the first report of this new work.
It is encouraging that these scientists are so willing to share their discoveries on the internet free to us.
Thank Nat Geo for that willingness.
Considering that the work of many scientist is funded at least in part by public funds, a bit of sharing seems appropriate.
Well what is the point in keeping to yourself unless there is money to make
with exposer comes funding
Seeing the NOVA program lit a fire under me so I had to go to this lecture.I hadnt been to a lecture on campus since 1968. LOL.
*_Darn, this is so interesting, thank you for letting us join this lecture! :)_*
*I must also say that John Hawks is an excellent speaker, loved it all!*
7.756.935 ll
@@BEARBULL33 what?
There are SO many "sensationalistic" sites, confusing "Goliath" of the Bible, denying the moon landing, etc. This man (from my university) is wonderful AND authentic. I always refer ppl to him.
*Only 18* 👇👇👇
534199.loveisreal.ru
Always a pleasure to view a lecture from Professor Hawks! The content is very interesting - but if I had one comment to make is I highly agree with the position that discoveries should be in public venue. I think the sharing that's been the cornerstone of the Naledi Cave discoveries has been so broadly public from the beginning is really the right direction. My hat is off to those scientists who set that direction, the South African government for forcefully supporting it, and everyone else who's helped set that course.
I really enjoyed this lecture. I love hearing about Homo Naledi & the team that is working to discover, recover, analyze & present the findings to the public. I hope Nova is planning to do a sequel to Dawn Of Humanity. This discovery, the personalities behind it & the story it tells is one of my most favorite things. I am grateful I didn’t have to wait 10 years to learn about it or come up on a pay wall. Hooray for open science! Hooray for John Hawks!
0:39:41 - Geology team
0:40:00 - Flow stones contain uranium --> thorium --> lead
0:40:15 - teeth
0:40:35 - Also observe electron traps (E.S.R.)
0:41:04 - Also quartz last exposure to light radiation
0:41:17 - Optically Stimulated luminescence
0:41:20 - Magnetic field position
0:41:38 - Six different techniques from eleven different labs
0:42:22 - All these methods
0:42:35 - After ___ & before ___
0:43:00 -
0:44:15 -
0:44:40 - Biology
0:45:59 - Paleontology
0:46:11 - Skeleton
Utterly brilliant, and this humble guy with three teenage daughters who is so relatable! My 18 year old daughter calls me camp too, little do they know what us dads go through!!
Thank you all for this wonderful update to the National geographic show. I became fascinated with your work, and I am amazed at the speed of information that has become public. Again, thank you ALL!
Thank you so much John for your public domain approach
This is the second time I'm watching this , so breathtaking.
Good to see Tom got all dressed up to introduce Mr. Hawks. BTW, I'm so claustrophobic that I can hardly watch them go thru the chute. Great work and kudos to all the cave crawlers.
It was a very warm day and the group of regulars to WNL never over dresses.It was a rare oportunity to be there right when Dr Hawks had just gotten back with all of the latest news. It was the first time Id been to a lecture at UW since 1968. Good times.
Awesome! In every way!
"We do not know."
This is how 'Science' comes out of the dark ages!
Judith Walker this is HOW science works.
@@sugarnads science is ignorant of facts until itself discovers them.or,makes up some excuse to varify there findings.IE,,big bang.
science only tells you what they want you to know.i can tell you where humans came from.but.science & religion,dismiss it.the biggest lie,is,the big bang.never happened.go visit the smithsonian vaults..that dont exist.easiest old discoveries,are at the bottom of peat bogs.just need an excavator..look up vids on,why the moon is there...or when it was put there..
@@phantomwalker8251 We are entitled to our opinions but imo we are not entitled to claim the truth of anything.
@@phantomwalker8251 _"science is ignorant of facts until itself discovers them"_
True, but an obvious truth for all of us.
_".or,makes up some excuse to varify there findings."_
Unlike theologists, scientists are obligated and bound to explain _only_ that which has been observed, i.e. facts. But you seems to suggest science researchers should get involved in something more. What would that be?
You don’t talk a lot about the geology at work here, maybe out of time concerns. But as a listener, I am yelling for more geology to help guide your conclusions. I love this story and worship the actors bringing us this information. Deep thanks to the funders as well as all the explorers and scientists.
Thank you for sharing all of your findings and work through these lectures, open access journals, livestreams, and online articles. Trying to learn something in quarantine 2020, and I, like many others, appreciate the accessible education. Thank you again!!
I really like the idea that we can follow and engage with this on-going project. For me it makes it a lot more worth paying attention to than occasional knowledge dumps from on high.
John and Lee Berger post almost every day on twitter and Facebook. John weblog is interesting too.
I had NO idea that you were HERE!!I followed Naledi here! Outstanding! Brain food!!!!
I'm back a year later. The attitude of keeping all the info under wraps is so dumb. By sharing the finds with as many experts as possible, more work gets done quicker. Letting students have access will inspire more applicants for anthropology, biology, geology, paleoanthropology. Current students in those fields will have more material to do their own theses. It's a win win.
A more educated population means MORE grant money.
You didn't know!!!!! Naledi info here!!! Brain food!!!! Exclamation marks!!!!!!
!!!!!! More!!!!!!
!!!!!!goofy laughter!!!!!!
!!!!!!Awkward!!!!!!!
!!!!!! Your still reading!!!!!!
It really is genius to share this with the world so that all experts can see it, study it, and provide input.
Thats what sciemces is all about.
Besides, the finding belong to the world'.
It has REALLY PISSED off all the other Peers, many have spoken out and will not peer review anything. I think of it as Lee and John took turns kicking the old school in the nuts. It is pathetic some would take 20-30 years to publish.
Thank you for posting this!! I saw the documentary of them first finding the bones of Homo naledi, I had to learn more! Especially because it had been a few years. I wish I could have seen where his laser pointer was on the screen, once in a while I could but not all the time. Other than that this was such a great treat, thank you so much!!!
Presumably (never assume?) these various anecdotes of how narrow the access in these caves were found to be by the team, provides me with a presumptive conclusion, that over time, epochs of time, even, such difficulty has allowed the current professionals to access the caves, while amateur spelunkers over the centuries, thousands and millions of years had such a hard time getting in, that they were unable to remove or otherwise disturb the finds. This is rather a contrast from some other sites in the world, such as in the Valley of the Kings and other areas that had been purloined repeatedly over time. Like some "barn find" cars, they are only original once. A different non-comparable aspect of life and production, but the idea is that there is a fiarly good confidence that the Naledi were discovered undisturbed since they were ensconced in their "find" location. How many human types tried to get into these cave over the millenia is unknown, but not finding "stuck" humans inside from different millenia or times frames, is exciting from the point of view of someone finding something, "for the first time." It is sort of like, that in fact, it was "for the first time." Dating the fossils is then the most important thing that can be done other than investigating just what these living beings actually were.
These cave explorers are very heroic, it's amazing to see.
Anyone else get claustrophobic looking at that cave-diving footage?
nope i enjoyed it and ima fatty lol
Why would any being of low IQ go there and how could they remember the way in or out?
@@250txc They probs had more intelligence than we give them and the bodies are proof they where put there so they did it for a reason!
@@richardevppro3980 I'm about ~100% sure they were much more intelligent than we give them credit for also. They survived, right? They survived without any one but themselves, right? No trucks, no cars, no capitalism... They needed no pillows, mattress, no clocks....Someone HAD to be thinking then in that time.
Can't say most humans today in the USA actually think in a reasonable way today from the results we have now with out great country. And we are greater than any other country, so it is baffling really.
~Never mentioned, but they had sex, right?
What if it shifted just one inch. Trapped!
I love John Hawks, he is a great speaker and educator. Some researchers think these remains should be classified with apes as Pan naledi. I dunno....
Brilliant news as i have followed this for many years and its full of info, there are probs more up to date shows but this one not to be missed
Lots of Africa haven't been explored. But it is equally true that lots of Asia and Americas haven't been explored. A major part of human origin may be found in Asia and Americas too. One day we may replace the Out of Africa Theory by Out of Asia or Out of Americas, or even out of Antarctica Theories.
This is absolutely fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing this!
What a wealth of discovery. Makes me wonder if there are dozens of other undiscovered variations out there and that perhaps many of them interbred.
See Dr
most possible, that's normal for many mammals, for instaande baboons, big cats, (lions, tigers and Panthers can breed), Dogs, Coyote, wolves, & goldenjackall interbreed).. etc
very interesting, thx for posting....incredible we can still find amazing piece of our history that are still preserved.
And so proud of Dr. Hawks & my school. University of Wisconsin - Madison.
I first saw John Hawks PhD, Professor of Anthropology, in his lecture with The Teaching Company called "The Rise of Humans: Great Scientific Debates" and I was so impressed that I waited for his next lecture. However, he only lectured partly in "Major Transitions in Evolution" with another professor. Both of these lecture series were excellent. Those are the only two that Hawks did with TTC. He must be too busy with his primary work. He has his own youtube channel with 25 videos.
Aside from the title gaffe... a fascinating lecture. Thank you for sharing it!
An abrasive cutting wheel would open up those narrow stretches by several valuable inches. Nothing sacred about claustrophobia. One must anticipate small fault shifts.
I agree. You can bet that the cave would be opened up very quickly if there were diamonds in there and it is entirely possible that it could be done without disturbing the dig site. I feel sure that the occupants don’t care anymore
Thanks for being a good scientist and share the results with the public.
WoW!~ A new ancestor...what could be more exciting! s/.
I have favorite professors from just about every field of interest I follow..... amateurishly follow. Dr Hawks is one of those. Dr Brian Keating is another...... They're both men I could talk to in a bar, and just be completely wrapped up in what they're speaking about.
I saw a documentary on this initial discovery and it was awesome to get a follow up with more information. I love that it is available to the public. This stuff fascinates me. I feel if more people knew what was going on,the funding would improve. Just saying ;)
This is wonderful.
Nothing short of interesting!
Thank you for this lesson
"Paul" was at U.W. with ME.Have followed these fossil discoveries from first announcement. Today's technology is helping share these discoveries w/ the world. Long-time fan of Hawk.Making these available on YT is great but we cannot see light pointers AND camera needs to enlarge screen for YT viewers !
Maybe we had a geology class together. Prof Lauden in Commerce Bldg on Bascom hill. The NOVA program got me back into it so well, Ive tried to play catch up and watch every video about Paleoanthro from Sahelanthropus, Ororin, Ardipethecus, up to Naledi. What a ride! Its also cool that Alea Gurtov was selected for the original group to do the dig with Lindsay, Hannah, Ellen, Marina and Becca. What a dynamic group.
UW rocks for posting these!
I've yet to see a laser pointer work / show up on video... Oh for a simple ruler or pointer stick.
Keep watching, some pointers show up on some videos.
It seems like there should be tech out there that translates the pointer through the actual projection instead of onto the viewing surface. That would be very helpful for those of us viewing lectures after the fact.
great lecture!
I could listen to him lecture for hours!
It is a pity that moronic comments by a large number of uneducated individuals are not deleted. How is it that religious beliefs blind intellectual endeavour and thought processes?
The commentaries on this site have not been commandeered by anyone as far as I have seen and editing them would be a waste of time and introduce suspicion.
Me? I have been looking for discusion on lighting and illumination and other uses of fire. Did any Austrolopithicnes show evidence of fire control?
I don’t think the comments should be deleted. Let them stand as a memorial to human stupidity.
Man I wish I was there to see it in person
How did the naledi navigate the intricacy of the cave system without light.
They probably had use of fire
Go question and why go there? These humans had low IQ? How do you know the way in or out?
@@250txc Hiding from predators. Think Jurassic Park.
@@betsybarnicle8016 I think early humans were much smarter than we give them credit for today... Time and time again, like with analyzing DNA and finding so much sex between humans, we are totally underestimating our ancient people.
@@250txc I agree. Look at the 10,000 year old and older megalithic buildings. Some ancient carved rock or ivory jewelry is intricate and beautiful.
My Theory..Naledi would have regarded this cave as a treasure..they could hide from predators and larger hominids.
They would have used this cave a lot and some would have died in the cave and their contemporaries would not be able to carry the bodies out so they would carry them down and try to stuff the bodies in the far corner to reduce the stench
They have not found signs anything lived in the room called Dragons tail. They are searching for soot etc they think the one dragging them in had to use something. They where dead when pushed through the chute, the bones where piled up under the chute. That is why the rib section is mostly missing. They laid under the chute and gassed up from intestine, etc. then this destroys the bones that are close. So they have hands, feet, leg bones, etc.
A community group of Naledi were using the cave. Perhaps merely as safe refuge in bad weather. Maybe a cool place to hang out during very HOT days. The rock fall that researchers climb up to get to the chute entrance was not always there. It fell from the ceiling above. That back cave was not always blocked by the rock fall. One possibility is that the cave in happened when a group was back in that cave, trapping them there. Some likely would have been killed by the falling rocks, and their bones may still exist UNDER the rock fall. The survivors all would eventually succumb to co2 poisoning. Dropping where they were. Those in the back crevices desperately seeking exit. Most in the open center where the majority of bones have been found. That cave was not always so hard to access. Fact. Did the cave in happen timely to when Naledi were in the cave? Possibly.
Good idea and a big maybe ...
Just so you know, on video, your pointer is not showing up at all. Comparisons being pointed out with the laser pointer are lost.
I remember when he put out an advertisement for small female archeologists. We all knew it had to be a tight squeeze of a cave.
Dr Berger recently lost enough weight to be able to visit the chamber where they were found. That's incredible.
Fascinating.
OH MYYYYYY..EXTREMELY TIGHT SPACES..THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRAVERY
Seriously! They deserve a freaking medal!
My respect for the South African government is growing.
Extremely interesting. Thank you
So much we don’t know. We need more scientists.
would it be dangerous to chip away some of the blocking outcroppings?
So what does the "burger box" refer to? Don't eat too many burgers prior to enterint the chamber?
It's a pun. The researcher who got stuck in that part of the cave is Lee Berger. So they nicknamed it the "Berger Box".
So incredible! Thank you!!!!
That title... I'm startled to see that it is possible to "...CHANGE human origins" (emphasis added). Wow!
Wouldn't that require time travel? Among the other challenges that changing something like human origins would entail...
Or, did they mean to say that new discoveries of this hominid species (for several reasons, I prefer this time-honored term) is changing OUR IDEAS ABOUT human origins? Or, these discoveries are changing the way we view human origins? The title could have continued to the next line.
Does it matter? Since language is one of the defining characteristics of humans, and the purpose of language is to facilitate clarity and detail in communication, it seems obvious that it is important to say what we mean.
It could have read: 'Homo naledi: Discoveries Shed New Light on Human Origins',
among many other possibilities that would have said what the lecture was really about - rather than changing something that occurred in the distant past, which is, so far as we know, is impossible.
Note: If the person who wrote the title did not pass the 6th grade, or is not a native English speaker, please accept my apologies.
I LOVED it! Thanks
Fascinating. Maybe they were hiding from something? Seems like they put themselves there. Also, maybe those chutes weren't so closed in back then. Maybe they were more accessible. Idk. I'm curious.
Consider the reason these fossils were found in almost all reaches of the cave network without any evidence of habitation, Could it be that the cave network was a place of refuge from other hominids who were hunting them for food. Better to squeeze into the remotest reaches of the cave and die there than to come out and be slaughtered and eaten by your pursuers. Just a thought, but I guess we will never really know for sure.
This is exactly what i expect from paleoanthro archeaology. Nothing more or less. So im just a human being,i saw the later doc on Netflix wether they said it possibly made art or fire or burials...who knows?
i am really keen to know if the Naledi had a light source - i assume there would be signs of charcoal residue if they had harnessed fire/torches
Me too. Some think, including Dr Berger, that they did have light/fire. There’s no evidence of fire -yet. I learned this from a Boston University talk here on RUclips featuring Berger & others.
Kudos and thank you!
Very good.
How did the bones get there in the first place?
How did they navigate without light? (The naledi )
They could use fireflies, not joking.
Two thirds of the frame is wasted space. Wonderful lecture lousey camera work
OMG, he is SO good, but then I love anthropology and archeology.
Lecture mostly consists of videos of people crawling through very narrow spaces. Fascinating
That was like 5% of the lecture so obviously you weren’t paying much attention.
Secrecy is conducive to manipulation. Openness (glasnost) is indispensable for a credible science.
Which is why thanks to Nat Geo all information is freely public all the team's experts' papers, all the fossils 3D printing PDFs can be downloaded for free.
Scanlon Moon Yes, it’s all one big global conspiracy 👁 /sarcasm
I expect it is safe to assume that no tools were found, else it would have been discussed.
Could be related to the possibility that it was not a living place but a flight place, persued by invaders willing to kill them all
I womder if there is any oral tradition from the local indigenous tribes about these early hominids?
Most interesting!
Professor Hawks is the spitting image of a Hollywood actor who has been in several movies recently. I can’t recall the guy’s name but the resemblance is uncanny
Anyone else thinking of the drawfs living in caves and mountains? (not just in Lord of the Rings but also in the German mythology which informed Tolkien, and many other folk mythology)
Could the Rising Star cave system have been a burial place, or a a place where a population had lived before an earthquake created the cave system known today?
Educated opinions lean STRONGLY towards the burial place, and have very good reasons for that.
I love this! Could these hominids have been using something like chimpanzee fire to illuminate these deep caves?
If you could of zoomed in to the slide/video screen it would have been a great improvement
I agree, I watched the video on an iPad and felt like amplifying the image on several occasions.
Awesome
The cave specimens seem to have become lost in the cave and died? I see no commentary on soot or charcoal from lighting.
Not lost they are dead, they are searching for soot etc they think the one dragging them in had to use something. They where dead when pushed through the chute, the bones where piled up under the chute. That is why the rib section is mostly missing. They laid under the chute and gassed up from intestine, etc. then this destroys the bones that are close. So they have hands, feet, leg bones, etc.
They could have used Fireflies for light ... kids in the tropics do ..I bet they knew this before they used fire...I think theres evidence that the bodies were left over a period of time , not all at the sametime ..,,which makes the got lost theory less likely...
that's crazy. The area should've been subducted eons ago.
I understand and appreciate the dangers of caving but at some point you have to say that the situation is too dangerous. Once you have discovered the cave chambers and given appropriate study, I would think you could open the passageway enough that people can get through safely without endangering themselves.
jeez, very crazy, very interesting
have any of the other caves Lee Berger found when he surveyed the area been explored?
My best guess (imagining, dreaming) is:
as they lived 600.000 - 250.000 ago, being less evolved than hominins farther north, they could have faced the invasion of these hominins species from the north, which were mightier, cleverer, better organised ..
Terrified they flew and hid in theses caves. The fear pushed them into the narrow passages. As the enemies waited outside, they didn't dare get out and starved...
Striking attention to date testing. Impressive’
wish there had been more on naledi, less on caving.
I (educated) guess that there will be much more biology info released in the next year or two. In particular, there are easily enough teeth and they are fresh enough that DNA will be recoverable from many individuals. I agree with you, that it'll be fascinating to learn about their biology.
On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that Naledi is very much an offshoot from our line (and vice versa), so any biological sharing will date back to a branch point about 2 million years ago. Although talking about "branch points" is looking less and less realistic these days, as it appears that there were many concurrent hominin species that likely cross-breed with each other to some extent.
@@andrewzcolvin
John did not complain. He made a wish. I've been encouraged to do that on every birthday since I was 2 years old.
My thoughts too.But I do admire and appreciate the efforts. I have lots of questions.
Search for Susan Traynor, John, she has a video about the steps and shows some more.
@@patb9375 Thanks for the suggestion! I think this may be what John is looking for. Jump to 8 minutes to skip the caving introduction: ruclips.net/video/d84qp45f-6w/видео.html
Spoiler (from the final 2 minutes of her talk): Homo Nadeli is very much about caving!
Can the DNA of these creatures be sequenced? Great video.
Go watch some videos on DNA and genomics.... It is probably not what you think even if you can get some decent samples ...
Cool video.
how did they see in there?
Did they live in that cave?
I feel for the excavators, if that's the term, and how very difficult it is for them to crawl to their sites. Is it possible, and of course only very carefully, of safely streamlining some of the extreme areas? I think of the man who became stuck in there, the worst scenario. Also I'm concerned about their not progressively making their way into each space. Wouldn't their weight on the sediments effect what is to be excavated in the future as they are going to and fro over areas that have not been excavated yet. Like first excavate the area where all their headquarters is, then gradually progress into the cave. Also, futuristically, I'm wondering if tiny particles are being tossed out. If they find a site with all the teeth present and the rest of the "fossil" (wondering why they don't say "bones" yet maybe they are quasi-fossils) or bones are "gone" if some day a very sophisticated software program or quantum computing perspective could analyze particles of bone and actually in 3D reconstruct like a skull that otherwise would be unseen by our own eyes. For this reason I wonder if they might leave some areas of the chambers for future generations. Are there any experts who know? I wonder why he didn't make sure everyone knows were to go on the internet to access their website and be able to ask questions. Thanks for presenting this great lecture!
mwj5368
Lee Berger said they were leaving the rest of the chamber for future generations.
Awesome. Hope they get all the money they need!
FIRE. I wonder if they had fire to see how to get down there.
It is speculated they must have had fire as a light source to see down there.
They are searching for soot etc they think the one dragging them in had to use something. They where dead when pushed through the chute, the bones where piled up under the chute. That is why the rib section is mostly missing. They laid under the chute and gassed up from intestine, etc. then this destroys the bones that are close. So they have hands, feet, leg bones, etc.
At some point, we're going to have to stop thinking we can interpolate intelligence and brain size.
el scientifico
Indeed. A whales brain is 5 times larger than a humans brain and yet they have not sent a whale translator to explain this fact to us.
Greeny202a It is a matter of mass ratio. The whale brain is huge but so is the body it must control the function of. A smaller brain size is not a direct indicator of intelligence. It must be taken in context with the body it is in charge of.
Keith Durant
Nonsense im afraid. The Whales brain would be exactly the same regardless of the body it was connected to.
Bullshit Keith. There is good correlation between the nth root of body mass and brain mass for mammals. I think n may 2/3 but my memory is foggy on n sorry.
nodal density, surface wrinkles, more important than size
Thank you
excellent
I'm still stuck on several points in this mystery and would like to offer the following: Perhaps the people left in the cave were prisoners or sick people having some disease believed to be infecting others in the tribe and the leaders decided that they must be quarantined. Or perhaps they were forced to go into the cave as punishment because of some infraction of tribal law. Still, why not simply kill these criminals on the surface and bury them there and be done with it. Or in either case, if they were dead when placed in the cave then the people on the surface had to 'speak or communicate' in some fashion in order to give even rudimentary directions to those who's duty it was to be get the bodies into the cave in the first place. Such a complicated task as this could not even be attempted (even in daylight) without talking to one another or drawing plans on a flat rock with a piece of charcoal, or pantomiming some sort of weird skit or play that would explain what needed to be done and why. No one would be able to complete a confusing job like pushing and pulling dead bodies up and down a narrow cave tunnel unless one of them (say the leader? or the strongest member of the tribe?) simply took it on himself to one day suddenly start pointing and grunting and trying to explain the job that was at hand or that he wanted the other to do and why. No, these people had to talk'. Also, what about the smell? Fifteen bodies in a small room of a cave with little or no air circulation, even if they were put there one at a time over say a years period would certainly begin to smell. What member of the tribe (and it would take at a minimum of two people and several lengths of rope to get even one dead body into the cave room where it was to remain). And who would voluntarily say, "I'll take the bodies into the cave. Let me do it."? This would unquestionably be a place where the smell of rotting corpses would overwhelm even the most ardent servant of the tribe. Who would say he or she wanted to do the filthy job? Also, the members of the tribe who's responsibility it would be to take the dead bodies into the cave or force living people (as prisoners or for some other reason) into the cave (or who knows? perhaps they went willingly for some strange reason), into the total darkness of a cave where the openings and passageways are so narrow that no normal man or woman could get through himself, let alone pull or push or force a dead body or a live person in without giving directions and listening to the other fellow who was helping him explain what had to be done when they had to move past a narrow spot along the way would be impossible. And then there is the problem of light: it would be almost impossible to use nothing more than the brail method to even find the cave room deep underground where the bodies were to be taken, let alone get a body delivered to the room. Who among you would not say to his helper half way down into the cave, "Hell, this is good enough. let's just leave him here. The boss is too old and too fat to come even this far to check on where we put them."
-Small