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Joshua Maponga Questions Everything!
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2024
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Today's episode is a quick response to an interview I recently watched with Joshua Maponga. I don't know exactly what to make of his beliefs, but he brought up three very interesting points that I wanted to expand on.
Original Interview by @SomethingNicewithDinano - • Joshua Maponga on Gett...
@thegospelaccordingtomaponga
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
2:02 Clip 1
2:46 Stuck In Religion
4:31 Clip 2
6:01 Doubting
9:37 Clip 3
11:13 Spiritual Authority Issues
16:55 Final Thoughts
17:37 Patron Thank You
#joshuamaponga #atheism #mindshift #atheist #exchristian
Happy Tuesday, all! Thanks for being here.
Is he an active pastor? He's asking some disturbing questions
He was an active bishop for SDA. But not sure exactly where he stands now
@@MindShift-Brandon❤ Jesus power ❤ Warning it is intense. 😮 only last 3 days.
Soon I will be lifting the Vail.
If oneself could be totally ones own, it would be much simpler. But noooo, them warring flocks...and them grinin' shepherds.
Hello MindShift can you do a bit on what kind of voice they hear EXACTLY when their ‘God’ ‘talk’s’ to them, especially women when they are supposed to be hearing a male voice back. 😂 Another one is ask believers how they think EXACTLY a ‘he’ created all of the star’s, the planet’s we see, the Sun 93 million miles away from us, some star’s uncountable light years away and uncountable star’s out there in the Universe’s. HOW ‘he’ EXACTLY brought ALL these thing’s into existence and how LONG it took ‘him’ to do it all. Why didn’t ‘he’ explain all this in any Religious book EVER!!!!!? I predict there will be a lot of silence back from them. 😂🤣😂
Just to give you a background on how the Christian religion was brought to Africans by missionaries. They behaved like dictators, ill-treated our people, they humiliated them and they stole huge tracks of land using the name of Jesus Christ. That is an historical fact of Mariannhill Monastery. Joshua's journey started by understanding his history. Your analysis are great for someone who does not have this history fact.
True, but not all. I come from a family who housed the 1st missionary in the area and also a family of traditional healers, a family of preachers and also a family of traditional leaders, so jah. Nothing is new and people have behaved +- the same since the beginning of time. Just as it is today, they were good and bad missionaries but we tend to pick and choose what supports our view of life, but this is not say that there was no bad done in the name Christianity, by the way it already was in the continent and some traces of it are shown in history before white missionaries....questioning is good thou...never believe in anything which cannot pass a test
@@siyabongamahaye3946No it is true. Aside from Sudan and Ethiopia Christianity was brought to Africa through colonialism.
@draco_1876 that's 100% right, people don't realize that was brought up in Ethiopia by a Greek man called Frumentius, but then if Christianity was here in Africa, what was it called before European?
Ethiopia has the oldest bible and were NEVER colonized by the Europeans
@@siyabongamahaye3946sounds like your family where them Africans that sold out to the Europeans for money and land
I always tell my sons never to believe something just because it's from a figure of authority, they must question everything.
This has its limits, you can eventually become locked up because we humans don’t know jack shit about anything, and we can only be sure WE ourselves exist.
Reason I say this is because this thinking sent me into psychosis a while ago.
You mentioned wisdom, Brandon. It makes me smile to think of myself as a teenager who prayed for a gift of wisdom, like Solomon’s (I actually did.) It might just have been the one prayer that I uttered which was heard. As a consequence, “The Lord” led me out of Christianity a few years later. 😂
Lol!
What is the basis of your newfound atheism?
@@20july1944are you the youtube comment version of a masochist?
@@Colonizer2 No, I'm just an educated Christian who likes arguing with atheist pricks.
@shaunelstob. Yeah, it’s oddly comforting to have biblical justifications for leaving the faith.
For me, it was “when I was a child, I thought like a child, I spoke like a child, but now I am grown, and have put away childish things”
I used to have child like faith, and now I am grown, and left faith behind
Maponga is a gift to humanity
He is!!!
African wise man Joshua maponga✊
True 💪🏾💪🏾
Your closing thoughts were brilliant!
I struggle with it when I was in seminary and that's how I became an atheist.
I couldn't justify it nor was I willing to make excuses anymore for it.
Thank you kindly. It is amazing how so many christians lose it right there!
Wow! A seminarian! Do you know the NT narrative, even though you apparently don't believe it?
@20july1944 NT and OT are part of the curriculum, so yes, I don't see how that is relevant.
@@MalekMagicianPR Good. I'm curious where/when/how you think Christianity got started.
@@20july1944there are many interesting resources on that topic. There is also evidence to suggest that Christianity itself didn't really get started until Paul and his ministry.
Well, I have been watching Maponga since he started and by now has a fair idea of where his ideas originates and the intended direction of his thought process: lots of his questions regarding the Bible is the hypocrisy of the colonial masters that took all this information and repackaged it to suit and reflect how they think. For instance, he questions what colonists refer to as Afrocentric teachings; the hypocrisy of western Christian embracing present day Judaism; the selective nature of western Christians biblical beliefs and applications. He is frustrated with the way White Christians come to Africa and try to westernize Africans as they claim to bring Africans the gospel. He thinks westerners are there to clean up the African mindset prior to trusting them with the‘worthy’ gospel of a white Christ- which he clearly thinks is ridiculous understanding where Israel itself is located.
Lots more. A delight to watch him myself. Very insightful man.
Joshua Maponga can only be understood by African Descendant,,you will never really get it if you are not,,,he is rooted in African History
Thank you
100%
Not sure but I think u should watch more of his videos such as his 'farmer's of thought' series. He's spot on
Even back when I, at most, was considering deconverting, one of the best people I consulted with was an ordained minister who also happened to be my history teacher for most of my time in high school (and he was my guidance counselor for my senior year and helped me get accepted into my first-choice college). It may sound strange, but he made me consider atheism, and not in a "He tried to get me to affirm my faith, and it ended up the opposite" kind of way. He explicitly told me that if adhering to Christian belief clashed with trying to not harm others, then I should consider leaving Christianity, whether it be for another religion or faith or even atheism.
Now, why did I, who was still pretty religious at the time, trust him on considering atheism? Well, part of it was the background. Sure, I was Roman Catholic and attending a Catholic high school, but he was Western Orthodox (to oversimplify, think westernized Eastern Orthodox). It was through reading his Bible that I got introduced to different canons. Furthermore, long before he came to my high school, he was a USAF chaplain who served during the Korean and Vietnam wars. I was respectful enough to not ask for any specific stories, but he did give a little summary for his experience and why he was a minister:
"Most of my time was helping people through troubled times. Most of those were fairly basic and relatively light, but there were also times when no amount of faith could bring comfort or guidance. War and violence have plenty of reliable ways of tearing through any facade you might be given about them, often leaving you with only two choices: doubling down on the facade in extreme denial, or accepting that there are lies you need to break free of and should start doing so now. In my experience, the deeply religious tend to go with the former. Of course, I also had my own faith-shaking experiences then - perhaps not as much or as bad as that of some of those I interacted with, but still - so I had to answer at least some of these same questions for myself too. Sure, I may have stayed with my faith, but today, I would say that it was so that I could be more likely to be in a position to help more people. I may not know, let alone be able to help, where someone might go after this life, but what I can do is try to help with this life. If not having faith in any deity, God or not, allows someone to be a better person, then so be it. I do not believe that others need to believe, let alone as I do. If the God I thought I believed in and worshipped does not approve of my attempts at bettering someone's life, especially the ones who decided to not or no longer worship, than I suppose I will have to end my belief in and worship of then, even after a whole life of belief. Just because you might be wrong does not necessarily mean that the other person, God or not, will be right. After all, God was wrong about Adam and Eve, Saul, David, Job, and plenty of others, which demonstrates quite the lacking in the 'all-knowing' aspect."
Yeah, that is not exactly something you would easily forget. Sure, I did not deconvert until years after I graduated from there, but I visited him after I did, and I told him that I did. His response... was that I evidently made the correct choice for myself, that I appeared to have gone through a major improvement after making the decision. Yes, I did think that I was prepared to a rejection from him for deconverting, but to not only not hear that but hear the opposite, it was even more of a relief than I could have expected. Granted, he did agree with the Family Guy joke where the pope said, "Peter, the Good Lord said to _honor_ thy father. He never said anything about _liking_ him," and even elaborated a bit on it, so stuff like that may have had something to do with me respecting him.
And here come the flood of apologists claiming that he was wrong and that he and I are going to burn as they spam away like they purposefully lit their own hair on fire while likely claiming that it was Satan who did that to them.
The man actually stuck to his job as a chaplain, even after leaving the military. He's a good man and I like how he handled the situation.
I do appreciate Maponga's standard of evidence: Send Jesus to my house.
I am curious about his having been a bishop, since Adventists didn't have that rank when I was swirling in that particular cult, and to my knowledge, they haven't adopted it since then.
Bishop is a Greek word which is equivalent either to elder or pastor
It can be very hard to accept that some questions don't have answers. I'm as guilty as anyone of making up my own answers, but I do try not to believe them.
Thats a key difference for sure
What most people dont get is, African spirituality is actually rooted in the belief of God. We Zulus call Mvelinqangi. We dont personify God. Its not a he or she. God is the divine or divine consciousness. Ancestors are those we send messages to, so they send them to the divine consciousness
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
No I'm. A Zulu Bro UMVELINQANDI ..COMES FROME OWAVELA KUQALA ....THE ONE WHO CAME FIRST ....EACH SURNAME HAVE THE ONE WHO CAME FIRST THAT YOUR GREAT GRANDFATHER THAT WHY YOU USE SURNAME THAT WHY WE HAVE IZITHAKAZELO ....WHICH IMPLIES THE FACT THAT THE ZULUS VIEWD THIER UNCESTORS....EVEN THE WORD UNKULUNKULU ...MEANS UMKHULU KAKHULU ..GRAND FATHER OF MY GRAND FATHER.....WE SIMPLY BELIEVE IN UNCESTORS GOD IS A EUROPEAN COSTRUCT WHICH LATER THEY TRIED TO FUSE WITH ZULU TRADITIONS
@StrangeforceSA then why do we also refer to uNkulunkulu in such names as uMenzi? Etc..etc.. ultimately the reason we don't personify God is because we know God is in everything, the force or what you may call the energy that lead things to exist, noth seen and unseen that force is what we refer to as uMenzi or Mvelinqangi.
The word Africa is European. So what is African spirituality?
@B4Africa I think we all know Africa isn't an indigenous name here sir. That wasn't the context.... location was the context. Spirituality is actually all over the world. Search South America, some Asian regions. Please learn to read between the lines...it will help.
This is the best skeptic channel I've stumbled upon in recent weeks.
Too kind! Thats awesome to hear. Thank you for being here!
Well, Mr. Maponga is fascinating at least. It'll be interesting to see where he goes next.
Yes i thought so also
14:50 My now ex husband had me talk to our pastor. I was attending a North Point church (run by Andy Stanley) and apparently the campus we went to had a lot of people leaving. My ex wanted me to meet the new campus pastor, and I did. We had a good lunch, he didn't do a lot of preaching, just wanted to know why I had left the faith. (Apparently the church had been bleeding members recently, and my ex had sent them a scathing email about how they weren't there for us when my doubts began, long story.) My mother wants me to meet with her pastor... and well you know that story. I think that'll be the end of my meeting with spiritual leaders to explain myself.
Man. I get doing it for loved ones but yes at some point its just so futile. We dont owe explanations. They do! Its really warped the more you think about it. Just turn it to something more widely condemned. Imagine if tom cruise made leah remini go back and answer to leaders of scientology simply for being brave enough to wake up from the cult. It would be its own form of harassment and harm.
Your ex is better off without you, bitchypoo!
Man, there's no timeline in which I would have done that even once.
I'm not sure how you made it through but kudos for not dismembering anyone.
@@rainbowkrampus Does your name mean you're homosexual?
Do you anything about God that I don't?
Maybe you'll convince me of atheism!
Thanks for bringing Joshua M. to my attention. Also thanks for your thoughtful comments about his thoughts. At least he doesn’t seem to believe that everyone must follow all the exact rules in the Bible or go to hell.
Holy cow, Brandon. At the end of my faith struggle, I went to a pastor too (actually a very famous evangelical author; you'd likely know his name). I said I felt a lot like Job. I told him I couldn't hear God at all. His advice: "Well you might try standing a little closer to HIm." Like... what the heck?
Gross! Who was it?
@@MindShift-Brandon Randy Alcorn
They are clowns, and they always wanna sound superior. No one hears from God they hear the voices in their head and if their head and emotions are rotten they hear rotten things
15:00 This was different for me in that I went to a pastor/mentor/homegroup leader and we talked about my thoughts/feelings as I was considering the idea that God, perhaps, didn't exist. When I said I was considering the idea of "being an atheist" i.e. I was investigating the claims of Christianity (and theism) he told me to pour my whole self into the investigation.
Rather than trying to discourage me or tell me I was wrong, he said I needed to give the search my full attention.
I suspect, of course, that he was praying and hoping I'd find God and stay a believer, but I have to say he earned my respect by not trying to browbeat me into staying in church or by trying to convince me that God was real and I should just accept that, period, on its face.
That is a better approach until its not. My experience was many people like that saying that doubting is good. Go search. Go question etc. until i concluded god wasnt real. Then it was right back to my lack of faith and love of sin
He is not wrong. I wish him well 🙏🏻
Proof please
Yo keep the videos coming man! The quality is super high
Will do. Thanks so much!
Haven't heard of this man before, but he seems, if nothing else, like an interesting character. And that's a good point about writing a new gospel. Why can John write about divine visions but no one else can? Granted, I'll admit that a good deal of "modern gospels" or other such allegedly divinely inspired books are often at best bunk and at worst dangerous. But questioning things is of paramount importance.
Lol exactly. Id argue they are as wrong and harmful as the four anonymous ones included in the bible
The reason why I have morals is because I know that I don't like to suffer against my will and the worse I suffer against my will the more I don't like it. And that understanding about myself is what makes me understand why it's immoral for other life forms to suffer against their will and that's why I'm an antinatalist because I want to prevent as many life forms from suffering against their will as I possibly can and if they don't exist in the first place then that's just fine because then they won't know or care that they didn't exist.
I agree. I even signed up for VEHMT once.. voluntary human extinction movement. Imagine how much better we could make our world if we abandoned having children.
Agreed. I will never give birth to my children - I love them too much.
Over my dead body will they be forced to exist just to suffer & die anyways, without their consent.
Generally speaking, antinatalism is a moral position. Much like how I as an antitheist believe people shouldn't believe in gods. You are in effect saying that people shouldn't have children. You know you can just not have children without making it into a moral position right? Because the alternative is for you to define suffering and whether or not there are acceptable levels of it for everyone, including the people who do not exist yet. And that is a very silly position to put yourself in.
And just to add that suffefing is something built in nature. I would say that suffering is one of the main reasons nature got so diverse and life avoids boredom
Buddha said life is suffering and that life is death and death is life.
This is my favorite RUclips channel. Thank you for your insights Brandon. The hubris and exaggerated sense of self importance to think one is a prophet getting messages for humanity is insanity; add in a dash of savior complex.
Thats so encouraging to hear. Thanks for the kind compliment!
Exactly I cannot stand people that try to elevate themselves spiritually
@@joyabia682Even your christianity is paganist out from greece.A VERY BIG TIME EUROPEAN LIE AT IT'S VERY DEMONIC BEST.YOUR WHITE PAGAN GOD JESUS CHRIST WILL NEVER SAVE YOU.HE NEVER EXISTED.I am a pacific islander and I know my spirituality.Common sense made me leave that white european cult.PRAISE AND HONOUR TO MY ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD AND SAVIOUR YAHSHUAH A'MMASSISACH!!!!
What a brilliant analysis. I for one have watched Joshua Maponga for some time, he is on a journey still to arrive.
Joshua has arrived a long time ago . Just to borrow your words he is only striking a balance to carry the African Christians along without loosing them in between to the fanaticism of Christianity and the depth of the African spirituality and gradually making them arrive to the knowledge of the creator without hating who they are.it not surprising if a none African is confused from how Joshua communicates his teachings but if you listen with an open mind and keen attention with a little of African perspective you may catch up with him
You have articulated his position to some clarity and if what you are saying is correct it only makes his effort more honourable. Thank you. The African who is Christian or Muslim is still our brother and sister it is therefore wise to woo them with knowledge and love than it is to castigate them for what they are currently practicing.
@@chikesilasokonkwo2543 Joshua Mapongo is presenting nothing more than idolatry and the gospel which is no gospel at all.
Satan knows scriptures, demons knew who the Son of the most high was/is.
The key is seeing where he is taking people, and as I can see, he's deceiving the ignorant, who are still in bondage to the flesh, having issues with their identity, which should be in Christ- if they are sons of God according to scripture( and reality)
I remember when I was deconverting and my Christian friends insisted that I read Josh McDowell's book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict."" ( That was the go-to apologetic book at the time). I had already read it and thought it was unconvincing and rather lame.
All those books fail so hard unless you are already bought in.
I used to read a lot of Christian apologist. Kai those people are a waste of time
@@MindShift-Brandonyeah they’re for people who are doubtful themselves, meaning they don’t have faith! Which means hell! 😂
@@MindShift-BrandonThe bible is full of contradictions but you whites will always defend your religious cult.You white european liars are full of shit.Your god died on a friday and rose on a sunday morning;that's one and a half days.He should've rose on a monday evening to complete three days.WHERE IS YOUR OTHER ONE AND A HALF DAYS?I AM A PROUD BLACK PACIFIC ISLAND MELANATED GUY AND I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!
I didn't know about Joshua before this video, but he is an interesting person.
Indeed he is. So close to waking up but also so far
@@MindShift-Brandonhe is wide awake!
@mind He is wide awake!!!
Joshua sounds like a real character. Very charismatic and probably fun to be around. Not sure about writing a gospel of his own, though. Sounds a little like a potential cult leader. A little scary. Glad he is thinking and verbalizing these questions and hope he eventually arrives at a rational place.
I agree with all of that but what i find really funny is all the christians so against him writing a gospel. It is exactly what those anonymous authors did 30-120 years after jesus died. But 2000 is too far? Who is to say (to them) god is not inspiring joshua like he did those authors? Lol they just cant reject joshua as not a real prophet and blindly accept anonymously authors from back then without being contradictory
@@MindShift-Brandon One word comes to mind about Christians’ objections re: Joshua’s gospel - IRONY (as it was sung by Peter Griffin.) 🤣
@@MindShift-Brandon Yes, the other way of saying that is that 2000 is to close to us. I see him, I could probably go visit him if I was really motivated.
I know it sounds strange but I think there is a cocktail of anxiety that makes ancient text/religion attractive, almost sexy, to a lot of people. Otherwise, it is a cult and who knowingly joins a cult.
I've never met a religious person when asked, "How was the universe created?" who was honest enough to admit, "l don't know". For in the absence of evidence, truth is uncertain. Therefore, one is left to guess, speculate, and assume. This is called faith and it is not knowledge!!
Honest people do not claim to know the unknown. They simply will admit that they don't know.
100%!
You have to have faith to be a member. If you’re without it you’re not a believer. This is how they blindly believe everything, even though it offers little to no explainatiom
I just finishing reading 4 Ezra. It asks a lot of questions you ask in your videos. Scholars say it was written anytime between 81 and 135 CE. It questions God’s mercy. It asks what the point of humanity is if God is going to punish most of it. It’s fascinating because Erza does not seem to give up on his questioning. In the end his answer is the Torah, but I think at least the author is intellectually honest.
I think it is a nice contrast to the New Testament and Job.
I would love to get your take on it.
At this point in the Information Age we have so much access to whatever we find interesting. In the specific field of Abrahamic God theism/atheism it sometimes seems we’ve heard it all from both sides. Still, I keep obsessively searching for more unique voices. Yours has become my favorite in recent months.
But another type I find particularly interesting is when I find voices who straddle the fence - identifying as Christians but agreeing with many criticisms offered by atheists. Some of those can be generally classified as gnostics or new agers or just liberals/universalists. All of them have to step back from a literal infallible fundamentalist version of Biblical interpretation/understanding. I’m hoping to see a deep dive on the more gnostic stuff someday.
After 4 decades of thinking about all this, I now find myself wondering if the best Christians might be the ones with no real scholarly perspective at all. I think everyone makes up their own version of God in their heads anyway - no two are the same - but those who actually express the most genuine love may be those with strongest intuitive empathy and natural ability to not see all the Biblical inconsistencies, contradictions, confusion and outright evil.
Excelent points! I am curious myself after Joshua's journey if he'll just end up scraping his whole project. Keep up the great content, man! 🤜
Thank you much!
Hey Brandon, I love your videos! Im currently watching your secular bible study series and im loving it! Great video! Keep it up!
Thats so lovely to hear. Thank you for letting me know!
Thanks for the great content!
God doesn't simply *not condemn* or *tacitly condone* polygamy - the Law of God provides direct instructions on *the right way* to take another wife (Ex 21:7-11, Deut 21:15-17, Lev 18:18), including by force from unbelievers (Deut 21:10-14) and from other believers (Deut 22:28-29)
Thanks for watching and yes exactly!
When I had a load of unanswered questions, my Mom said, Forget everything you know, just ask God for the answers, just wait and have faith, the answers may not come one time.
Me: That wouldn't be fair, and I can't forget everything just like that, that would be bias, I must carefully think this through, I can't put emotion into it.
And It isn't a rush, I asked God, If I am wrong, please save me, and I HAVE FAITH that he will.
I will do what I have to do, if I loose, I loose, at least I know within myself that I tried.
And I left it as that. Because as an individual who is sincerely seeking truth, emotion/fear should never have any influence in the steps you take to find truth.
The message I was trying to convey was, I am sincere in my decision and have a pure heart, if God can see that I deviated due to ignorance, dispite I knowing the risk, he would set me back on track for sure. Rather than the Christians who just operate off of fear, and is far from sincere. So I believe that if I have things wrong, God would find me, if he could change Paul, why not me
Like Joshua said, give him my address!
@@MindShift-Brandon Lol. Well, he is omnipresent, he has my address, and records every word that comes out of my mouth, so he knows. It will be sad if he only wants to chat on Judgement day 🤣
Another great discussion, Brandon! 💯🎯
When Joshua in that one vid clip talks about doubting that specific Scripture that describes Jesus, alone praying and wondering who wrote that piece, if there were no disciples were around to eyewitness the moment- I was like, "Wow. So, I'm not the only one who wonders that.."
And yes, if I bring something like this up to a Christian, for example: my Mom or Dad..they'll dismiss it, excuse it saying the Bible verse was written by the Holy Spirit, get more into the Word, or listen to qualified theologins or pastors who will end up saying 'you just gotta believe' and God will reveal it to you some day..🙄
Thank ya!
Yay! Thanks, Brandon.
Always my pleasure!
You are an honest person and because of that I just add my subscription to your channel keep it up
Thank you. Appreciate having you here!
I really love his point of views
It always shocks me when people who quote the Bible make their own Gospels. Galatians 1:6-9 is absolutely clear that this is demonic&brings a curse. Looking at you, Joe Smith.
the main reason i started to doubt was when i would ask my parents questions they would tell me to ask the pastor and he never had any answers either and this was before the internet so i was just so confused as it didnt make any sense so i couldnt believe it
The last line of defense. The pastor. Except they cant work it out either. Its all so sad
I love joshua maponga
Everyone can always easily figure out the bs in other ppls religions but never turn that inward. We have to grow up outta these things.
Agreed!
So are you an atheist, Turt?
@@20july1944i'm unconvinced of any claims of supernatural stuff. Its actually miraculous to me how there is no evidence for any of it EVER.
@@ChillAssTurtle OK. How did the universe come about?
@@ChillAssTurtle You're making a scientific claim, let's discuss the science.
As a descendant of enslaved Africans in Surinam, South America, I learned that during slavery they didn't want the enslaved to learn that they were humans equal in the face of God. When slavery was ending they turned sround and stimulated the enslaved being convertef to Christianity for fear of their vengeance.
Thank you for doing these vidoes in your style. Theres not alot resources, at least that i've seen, from people who were once christian and now are not. Alot of the videos i look up on youtube or even reddit or the internet in general is usually bashing christians and are not taking into consideration that this has been engrained into us since birth. Your cool calm and collected and logical about why this doesnt make sense and that we should look into it.
Really appreciate that feedback. Thank you so much!
As an Atheist and has someone who have listened to Joshua Maponga on many occasions.
I think his inconsistency (toting the fine line between free-thinker/spiritualist) is by design.
I think Joshua came to understand what I also came to understand, which is the following:…
Scientific thought & inquiry is very powerful, but what’s more powerful than facts?
…Storytelling. The human mind revels in it, our software runs on it. Your identity as a person is the cohesive story your subconscious mind weaves in order to derive at a singular self (despite your many contradictions & inconsistencies).
Most people who believe in the Bible or any myth (as I once did), are first captured by imaginative and captivating stories.
Some of the most influential people in History were greatly aided by their ability to tell narratives wherein an average person can believe in their mandate, and follow (whilst crafting their own related story).
It’s not by accident that most kings, or empires tell chronicle their genesis and their authoritative mandate through a myth. Myth and storytelling is at the foundation of most nation. The Romans and the myth surrounding Romulus, Hitler and the myth of “divine Aryan Master Race,” the US with “Manifest Destiny,” or the Hebrew story of divine selection.
I think Joshua Maponga applying this method to influence minds because it works.
A message is only as good as the messenger, but a message without a great story and relatable characters risks being unmemorable and forgetful.
If you speak with people who believe the Bible is the “irrefutable word of god,” it helps to talk to them about the merits of doubt and inquiry from a relatable perspective. Talking down to those people as though your enlightenment completely invalidates their emotional beliefs only serve to close the door of meaning conversation.
That’s why I’ve gone back to reading the Bible myth & other myths myself, to better understand what captivated me most about those stories, and synthesize that understanding for my own pursuits.
If one only preaches to the choir, then one need not venture beyond the church.
People often personify “god” as the cyclical nature of the stories we tell. How they stories apply today is god.
It’s like they are worried about the Faustian bargain.
Great video! Thank you!
Thanks for being here!
Regarding his writing a new gospel, I've thought of this prospect. I call it "the problem of revelation." Christians have limited standards by which to vet the divinity of such an occurrence, specifically because of the precedent set by the New Testament, which represents several philosophical course corrections for God/new policies, and even a few prophetic disagreements. The only thing that could get this guy's gospel ignored is the bias expedience or the moral intuitions of the public upon which it lands, and, if he were so careless, contradictions of narrative/prophecy. But as for moral directives, the Bible cannot serve as a guide by which to disprove it, since the OT has clearly not been allowed to be a standard by which the NT can be disproven.
Very well said love this
I’m not a Christian but I really appreciate your Honesty! I think Joshua articulates these things the way he does because he is aware that the bible has been edited and I believe he is still a believer but is just looking for the truth without disturbing the set narrative. We know what happens to people who do that right. 🥴
🎉❤❤
Interesting video
Thanks for watching
"GOD IS SPIRIT, THEY THAT SERVE HIM MUST DO SO IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH."🙏🥰
Perhaps interviewing Joshua would clarify somethings
I really love your humility while explaining your points of view about Maponga believes. This what all christians must do while speaking to other people that are not christians.
But my perception is that any religion works to their people, that's why Arabs has their beliefs, Europeans theirs, also Africans should have their beliefs. Full stop
Man you always hit the nail on the head!
Great video Brandon! I’ve never heard of this guy before. He’s very enigmatic it seems like, but he’s willing to be honest about the sugarcoating of the Bible that goes on so much, and that’s kind of cool.
"THE WAYS OF GOD ARE NOT THE WAYS OF MAN."🙏🥰
Joshua is talented.he is a theologian. And from where i sit he can be a licturure teach and this one will put him to challenge scripture analysis edit and retext.🎉
When see maponga talk I always as myself.how, within such mind African were being colanised by whites.
The difference between knowledge and wisdom?
Knowledge is knowing that the name of the monster isn't Frankenstein...
Wisdom is understanding that it is
This was actually deep!
Joshua Maponga seems like an intelligent, empathetic person who was raised in fundamentalist Christianity and learned that his core beliefs are impossible.
It’s only the specifics of this impossibility and if he accepts the reality of it that I find curious.
Unlike Jordan Peterson, he hasn’t operated in any forum secular enough to ask him “what is God?”
This video is so good. Very good topic
Many thanks, friend!
I lost my wife and kids because i deconverted from being a Christian after being born and raised in a Christian family.I just wish one day shell figure it all out and come back home😢
I hear so many Christians taking a hard line on the bible saying that marriage is only between one man and one woman. Not only do I not see that explicitly said, it seems remarkably missing from all the many rules provided in the old testament.
When the bible goes to great lengths to explicitly condemn so many things, it is meaningful when something significant isn't explicitly condemned.
The way the bible is written, it is needed to read between lines, and perhaps even extrapolate on what might be meant by phrases that have less than clear meanings. But when engaging in that, claiming that the result is God's word with certainty, is worse than just foolish.
Putting words in God's mouth, has to rank pretty highly in things Christians shouldn't do.
So well said! Agree
I believe it's technically limited to one man, 700 wives and 300 concubines.
Just finished watching, definetly a weird episode😅, but it presents interesting question around this topic to start a conversation...
Happy tuesday✌
Cheers
Maponga is what you tag him
Lol
To an irrational audience, anything can count as rationality. There's a lot of grifters in the spiritual, theological and apologetical arena and a lot of money to be made for a professional opinion you can adopt. Rarely do they withstand scrutiny.
Well said!
@@MindShift-Brandon Thank you. I don't know this this character, but I recognise the the confidence, the "easy to agree with" phrasing, the fluffiness of their "message". I don't expect everyone to have a clear and definite message, but I do expect them to acknowledge that they don't as a consistent party of their schtick if they want to be transparent.
I currently enjoy existing and that makes me think that it's okay to force other life forms into existence even though they might not like or possibly even hate existing.
Hypocritical of harmful. Well…yes! The modern, sanitised Christianity is far removed from what the Bible actually teaches. Even people who are not Christian struggle when you tell them that the the God of the Bible is A-OK with the practice of polygamy and, even more unsettling, sex-slaves. My sister-in-law questioned me, then went into denial and said “Are you sure? No, that can’t be in the Bible.” when I told her about Deuteronomy 21:10-14. You are right, Brandon. When I started a devotional read of the New International Version of the Bible I was shocked and appalled. I couldn’t believe that so many people, millions, preach the God of the Bible as a God of “love and forgiveness”.
Joshua is struggling with contradictions and doesn't recognize them.
I think so
The questions he brings up, where does who made me become an atheist 😮
Thanks!
Thanks so much!
"TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART AND LEAN NOT TO THINE OWN UNDERSTANDING. IN ALL THY DOINGS ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AND HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATH."🙏🥰
Can I please write you a theme song? I would not charge you anything. I just LOVE what you do for this community and would like to contribute in my own way. I have a small YT channel, CB and Friends. Thanks!!
I checked you out and you are for sure so talented. Thank you for the extremely kind and generous words and offer. I have moved away from music on the channel and am dont really have intros or openings much any more to play music over. Usually hopping right into it. Id hate for you to go to any work
@@MindShift-Brandon I totally understand and thank you for the kind comments! Please let me know if anything changes and keep up the great work! Thanks.
That was a very interesting video
He does seem to have a healthy dose of doubt, but somehow keeps on believing. But he may appreciate the position of power regardless and keep writing the Bible as what makes sense to him to answer his questions. Very interesting for sure
Well put. Thanks for watching
Thank you
Thanks for being here
i am a new member from ths podcast bt i am in
Hey thanks for being here!
I question everything a healthy mind should always be Skeptic
A bit of topic I have a religious friend who see all the crazy horrific stuff happening in Israel and believes its part of the end times. Would you be willing to do a topic or video on the current events?
I was watching and i'm like how can a good God allow all that suffering it amazes me how people just side with Israel or vice versa based on their religious conviction
It really is just insane. I have been thinking if I want to try and cover it
I just find the topic interesting because so many have this mindset on the apocalypse end times and everyone always focuses on Israel etc however if you don't cover it I understand the horrific sh*t is never a pleasant topic to talk about. what scares me is how people get all excited about end time regardless of the human suffering it and i'm like people are suffering and dying and this stuff is happening because of religion in the first place @@MindShift-Brandon
I have wondered for a while if religious people have a personality type that is more likely to accept the words of an authority figure, in this case the authority being a church leader, as though these leaders actually know what they are talking about.
I think about that too
I think that some people have been abused/indoctrinated to be against themselves. Think about the Jeremiah 17:9 and Proverbs 3:5-6. If you were indoctrinated before you could read and write, this might be all you know.
So is it their true personality or the persona they were forced by constant physical abuse to adopt? My sense is that there are many different stories out there.
Some of it is simply indoctrination since birth. But yes, some personality types are definitely more or less suited for a particular field or circumstance than others. Many of the "logician" or hyper-analytical types seem to mentally and socially struggle in church settings, and I take this from both personal experience and the countless athiest testimony videos I've watched over the years.
I think the Thomas point is him saying IF Jesus is who Christians say he is, then that would mean everything that is written in that book about him is true. If it's true then he needs to go out of his way to reapond to my doubt. Much like the lost sheep, the responsibility is not on me to find my way home, the good Shepherd, if thats what he is, needs to come and find me.
I agree. Divine hiddenness is a major problem when the Jesus of the bible tracks down Thomas and shows up personally to Paul etc.
@@MindShift-Brandon yup. As for the bible he is supposedly writing, i suspect it will be some kind of a parody bible. He seems to have the attitude that says if you people need a Jesus so damn much, lets create one who actually works for us. I domt think he goes on to believe that Jesus has a heaven that he can take people to.
Joshua is on the path to becoming a non-believer. You are right that he pulls back at the last moment, but he is really 90% gone. I would love to know 2, 3, or 5 years down the road exactly where he stands. And your closing was tremendous.
Me too. Hes being pushed either deeper or all the way out. Kind of a scary precipice. And thank you!
He has a right to this is what u Christians do when ur wrong u want to convert people 😂😂😂😂
Joshua is on the right road and christiandom will soon hit a great brickwall when white lies will be exposed and it is happening at a furious pace.CHRISTIANITY WILL FALL AND BLACK LANDOWNERS OF THIS UNIVERSE WILL REIGN SUPREME WHEN THE KING AND SAVIOUR YAHSHUAH A'MMASSIACH COMES FOR THEIR DELIVERANCE FROM THAT SPIRITUAL BONDAGE CALLED CHRISTIANITY!!!!
I kinda get where Mr. Maponya is coming from with the analysis of Christianity. He believes the scriptures were contaminated by the Romans and Europeans to advance their colonial takeover of the world. He believes that Christianity was never any better than African spiritualism and that in fact, African spiritualism was and is the foundation of African culture. He knows that Africa is very religious today and he doesn't want to come across too harsh their faiths. He does a good job pointing out the errors in the Bible, but he also uses the scripture as a moral compass.
Yes. I think all thats makes sense for sure
I can't stand to listen to this man.
Moving on.
Hahaha truth is not for the weak
Some nervy cords must've been touched.
JESUITS can't deal with truths... We understand him/Joshuah, we getting freed from your dmonik Christian way that's oppressed us for a long time...
Point of correction. Joshua Maponga never claimed to be a prophet and he is not a prophet.
The Irony is palatable with this religion, when I read the bible at face value and ask explanations from apologists I get accused of taking it out of context, but believers continuously take verses out of context deliberately to prove the fallacies of their flawed beliefs.
You mentioned in your intro what religion does to the mind and what it forces you to believe. I've literally had a theist tell me to my face that he only believes science when it doesn't contradict the Quran. I was dumbfounded when I heard that. The fact that someone will believe myths that are unfalsifiable and that can't be tested or repeated is bonkers to me even after being a theist myself. Religion really does destroy critical thought and proper logic use of the mind.
It truly never ceases to amaze me
The Clergy Project exists because there are pastors who have privately lost or at least changed their perspective on religion.
I listened to him a few times, and I too are confused as to what's his true position
Glad to know i am not alone
Thats right Jesus has my address he can pay me a visit anytime.
Please bring some wine im also thirsty.
I got cupcakes and pizza for Jesus.
We shall have a party, changing water to wine,
Jesus first time eating those divine cupcakes.
Its biblical what makes Thomas more special?
My door is open.
"Let Jesus come to my house , baba" - Joshua Maponga
Legend in a making
When and if his bible is available, I'd be curious what his positions are. He doesn't seem, from what I see here, to follow the usual "thou shalt not question my hypocrisy" behaviour of most self proclaimed prophets.
As a Christian who has 'read' the bible, asked the questions, had the doubts, and come through, and will continue to go through the cycle, I can honestly say you don't know what you are talking about.
I actually agree that seminary became the cemetery for the faith of some, however most of the questions you claim you asked whilst trying to hold on to your faith can be answered, the question is, are the answers satisfactory to someone who is already open to a spirit of error and unbelief.
I spend a lot of time listening to atheists and other religions, and all it does is give me even more reason to believe, as the counter options are nonsensical, and very 'I' based.
But I thank God, through the internet, we can get real case studies, we don't have to read books, or hear second hand accounts deconstructionists etc.
But you keep doing what you are doing, its helping a lot( albeit not the way you think)
The Bible was NOT written for ReLegion BUT _For a specific group of people_
Brandon, do you think it is in your wheelhouse to do a video for the meaning/purpose of life for an atheist?
It is indeed. I have covered it before in response to other videos and my episode on Paulogia was all about that.
This is interesting i think it will be nice for you to have an interview with Joshua to get him to explain some of his augments because I think you have good points sometimes he confuses me as well as to where really he stands with God and Christianity, he has valid points though.
We african need to up hold our traditions and values from our ancestors
Sorry about the repeats. Looks as if it won't take my comments. Obviously you saw it.
I could be wrong but the questions Joshua asks, and ive seen several talks and interviews of his, are checkmate kind of questions. The type that invalidate the whole scam. So when he appears like he is still a believer of sorts, he is saying if athiesm is too radical for people, at least lets rewrite this thing, repurpose the scriptures...at least 0:00
Can someone please link us to the original video. Thanks
From a Christian perspective I'd say that Joshua Maponga is on a dangerous path, a path many of us recognize. He's openly asking questions that a lot of us secretly asked ourselves when we were believers. I may be wrong, but I'm afraid that there is only one destination that road leads to, and it is not to renewed faith. This sounds like a man on the way out.
I have to admit I was surprised by him, because as I said in my earlier comment, African Christians tend to be a more conservative breed than their American Evangelical brethren, and their numbers are growing while Western Christianity is declining. This presents a challenge to all of us. While I consider myself agnostic or at best a doubting Christian, I am very sensitive to how the American Christian community perceives itself to be treated by others and I have to say that there is some truth to the idea that the only permissible bigotry is anti-Christian bigotry and that Christians are being punished for standing up for what they believe is right or wrong. I have long felt that how you treat those you do not agree with says a lot about the validity of one's ideas. Truth should not have to persecute; truth should not have to punish; truth should not have to coerce or mock or demean. I believe--now I may be wrong--that there is room for both believer and nonbeliever in this country and to say that one side should not be free to express its opinions or persuade others or even influence politics while the other can do all those things and more is tyranny. I believe this is a tightrope that we have to walk if we call ourselves a free society. I did not become agnostic because someone said I had to; I did not become agnostic because someone mocked me for my beliefs (though I was mocked plenty of times!), I became agnostic because I asked myself the questions that Joshua Maponga and others have asked. I would never force my agnosticism on anyone else and in fact I am very careful around those who do believe to not do anything to cause them to lose their belief, unless they themselves without any prompting from me, indicate that they are open to such discussions and questions. Good video.
Two ideas can be the truth
Why would God create people who anger him so much and make him as miserable as the people that he sends to Hell.
Ask him live, he's not beyond reach, instead of talking what he said and misinterpreting him. ASK HIM LIVE
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