The Tragic Missed Potential of the Thirteenth Doctor [VIDEO ESSAY]
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Merry Christmas to all my Queers and Dears who celebrate it, Happy Holidays to those who don't, and if you're Jewish i hope you got some great Chinese food!
In this video, I explore one of my many somewhat controversial opinions on stories that I love, because I kind of have a lot of those. This time, we’re going to be discussing Chris Chibnall’s controversial tenure as the showrunner of Doctor Who and examine the missed potential of the stories he told.
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The idea of 13 giving up the fobwatch to reverse the damage is a really good one and would tied up two unsatisfying plot threads up in one go
Thank you 😊
I dont mind the fobwatch now - we can't really trust anything in it thanks to the Toymaker so Ncuti can frame it for all I care 😆
I've been saying it for years. Casting Whittaker was a mistake. NOT because she's a bad actress. She's an incredibly talented chameleon, able to seamlessly become the character she's given. When they give her Doctor some depth or charm, she lights up the screen. (Bring back Maxine Alderton!!) If, on the other hand, the Doctor is written flat, inconsistent, and weirdly nervous, that's what she's going to give you. Having the raw charisma to sell a terrible script is important for every Doctor, but it was vital for the 13th. That's why everyone loves the Jo Martin Doctor. The writing for her wasn't notably better, she's just got enough stage presence that nobody noticed.
I’ll be honest, I’m not entirely sure it’s a screen presence thing. I’m pretty sure Jo was literally given material meant to mimic other doctors with more confidence.
@@adammyers7383 Also Jo was given more agency perhaps.
I think all 3 of you make a very great individual point
The showrunner capabilities aside, I think Moffat is one of the best Who writers in using deep ideas and conflicts for the Doctor. I still remember how he explored the Doctor's childhood fear of the dark as a pinpoint for his future efforts against monsters just in 10 minutes. I wish we could see what he would do with the Timeless Child concept
Personally I think "Listen" is one of the worst stories of the modern era. Chibnalls run was consistently bad but it was never as bad as "Listen" or "Sleep No More."
@JBostonDoodle Listen > Chibnall's entire run, not sorry. Also, Moffat's first story about the Doctor fearing the dark was Silence in the Library, another banger.
You’ve put more thought into the 13th Doctor’s era in 39 minutes than Chris Chibnall did in three years. Nicely done.
I don’t know if that’s true. He could have put in just as much thought and decided on something different, or simply not been able to execute it the way it deserved. You never know.
It will forever annoy me. Jodie as a Doctor was amazing, and seeing her act as the Doctor was a delight! She was lovely! But the writing screwed her whole series over and I will forever be annoyed about it. I did like her series, but I can tell it could have been so much better. And she deserved so much better. Aaargh!
That's what broke my heart. By the end of Jodi's first ep, and most of her second, I was sold, I believed she was the Doctor. They got me super on board with this Doctor, and then the writing failed her utterly.
Chibnall reminds me a lot of DC writer Geoff Johns, someone who has groundbreaking ideas but doesn’t seem to commit to them past putting these ideas on the page. I’m not a fan of Timeless Child but I wanted the show to prove me wrong and do something interesting with it, so far I feel like RTD has made it something more intriguing in one scene than Jodie’s tenure unfortunately
I waited 3 years for 3 Jokers to have a whole lotta nothing. Never gonna forgive him for that
@@hcxpl1 Tell me about it, between that and having the New 52 caused by Dr Manhattan for yet again no reason- just baffling. I refuse to read anything else from him
No, Chibnall is more like Bendis.
I'm a huge fan of when writers build upon past failures (either their own or their predescesors) to tell a more comeplling narrative in long-form storytelling. You see it a lot in comic books especially. And it doesn't always nescessarily work but it's ALWAYS worth trying imo. I kinda don't understand fans who are upset with RTD ackowleding events of the Chibnal era. I know it would come as a relief to see story elements you hated just be ignored or written out of canon completely, but like... wouldn't it feel even better to see those plot threads amount to something more? To shape them into actual GOOD storylines that just have rough starts? Because the timeless child and flux stuff happened whether anyone likes it or not, there's no erasing it from memory. Just trying to pretend otherwise would be cowardly on RTD's part. Just wasting potential to play it safe. And isn't that style of writing exactly what made the Chibnal era so lackluster? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
EXACTLY!!!!
oh i forgot about the "i suppose you're gonna blame this on the dyspraxia as well" line and im amazed that no one slapped graham -- i know i wouldve :') again as a dyspraxic, ryans portrayal pisses me off, its like they gave him dyspraxia just for brownie points and then... forgot. its a shame too bc a dyspraxic companion wouldve been so interesting, especially with thirteen as a more tinkery incarnation!
Yeah that was something else, can’t believe they just dropped that fucking bomb and moved on
While Covid did screw Chibnall over, he really didn't allow himself enough time in any case to explore the TC retcon. It's a somewhat established thing that most Doctors do three series. So even in a parallel universe with no covid he would have had one series to explore a massive upending of the canon. In hindsight it would've been better to drop the idea of no returning villains in series 11 and introduce the Master, Jo Martin's Doctor and the TC then.
Jo Marten was everything. I hope she hows up again during Davies' new run of Doctor Who
damn now im just angry we didnt get to see more jo martin i hadnt thought about how much i loved her as a character before
I agree that the potential of the Thirteenth Doctor was wasted. The concept of the "Timeless Child" as a metaphor about being adopted doesn't work well for a character like the Doctor, especially considering the nature of Gallifrey. I would have preferred to see the exploration of this through the eyes of a companion travelling with The Doctor who discovers that they are actually adopted. Thirteenth's lack of emotional expression and empathy would have been more interesting had it been a visible internal struggle of hers. The story of the Timeless Child would have been more impactful if it had only revealed the darkness of Regeneration's origins, rather than being the story of the Doctor's adoption. I find it frustrating that it hinted at the fact that the Doctor was of different ethnicities, showing them only for brief moments, for me it reduces the impact of potential future Actors in the role of The Doctor of different ethnicities, because technically we have already seen the Doctor in various ethnicities, albeit briefly, when they were children. The Fugitive Doctor works better if it wasn't connected to the Timeless Child story; I think it would fit better between the 2nd and 3rd. As for the companions, I agree with you: it would have been nice to see The Doctor bonding with Ryan through the latter's passion for mechanics, but I would have preferred it to have been just Ryan and Graham in the first season, while Yaz could have been a recurring character, becoming an actual companion only after the two of them left.
Someday I too will make my own RUclips video in which I expound on my idea of what the 13th Doctor era might have been like, had Chibnall's ideas been explored in another way
That would be interesting to see when you make it!
Honestly, I can agree with Thirteen's lack of emotional expression and empathy, however, I have a head canon that she is on the ASD/ADHD spectrum (Maybe AuDHD) as I connected with her a lot and she (imo) shows many characteristics of ASD/ADHD (despite not being human, maybe the Doctor has a similar disorder for their species? Especially with each regeneration having a new personality/brain). Haven't watched the video fully just yet, as I saw your comment and just felt drawn to reply. I agree with your other points as well. I kinda forgot about the Timeless Child and was confused when 15 said he was adopted then immediately remembered. I do wish the writing was better but I still love her and relate to her. (Could just be biased too as she was the first doctor I watched while they aired. Full era.)
@@aceproffitt8315 I feel you my favourite Doctor is 11th and he was the first Doctor I watched at the same time as the release, although I later caught up with the rest of the Doctors. I don't know if 13th could be on the spectrum, because even though numerous videos on TikTok make me think I'm on the AuDHD spectrum, I've never been medically diagnosed and would feel like an impostor self-diagnosing myself. But yes I think 13th would have been more interesting if this aspect of her had been revealed, to me The Doctor is someone anyone can identify with so among their regenerations there may also be someone who is part of the spectrum.
Rewrite one major thing of Flux: Tecteun kills Swarm and Azure and the Doctor is forced to choose between killing Tecteun and losing any hope of knowing where she's from or letting Tecteun destroy the universe but she might learn who she really is.
Good character moment for the Doctor and properly dismisses the Timeless Child and leaves it open in the future. You get right back to where we ended up but with more character growth.
Fantastic vid. There was a lot I did like about Thirteen's run and I always felt guilty for kinda enjoying stuff, mainly bc I knew it could've been better. You explained a lot of my thoughts perfectly.
Not sure if you want feedback for your format, but I have to admit, the blue bg you have while showing pictures and info is really bright and is a bit rough on the eyes for me? a more neutral coloured background could make it easier to get info across! the blue text throughout the video is fine since it contrasts well against footage, but it's hard to see at the end on the blue background. Hope that's not too harsh!!
Not at all! Glad you enjoyed the vid, and I’ll take that under consideration! Mainly we use it because light blue is a color that can help set a calming and welcoming tone
thank you for being one of the few people I've ever seen recognise the problems/potential of 13's era without being super unreasonable and/or slandering the cast (especially jodie) for literally no reason lol. i loved her as the doctor and she deserved so much better- i'm literally considering rewriting her entire era for funsies. I'm not the best writer and I've never written fanfic before but her era had so much potential I think it deserves to have explored as much as possible :)
Thank you! It’s quite frustrating how many people can’t seem to express their dislike of something without being actively hostile towards those who made it and those who like it, so I work very hard not to do so.
Looking back on the 13th doctor, I can't help but feel like I'm being talked down to by someone who has no right to do so. The same way big corporations will spit out nonsense about responsibility, despite them being the driving cause of most issues we're blamed for. It's not difficult to believe this feeling is largely based on the lack of conflict between her and the companions- their adversity to challenging her role and the power she holds.
It makes for a dynamic where humanity appears stupid and weak for not fighting their battles, while the doctor has taken this high horse of authority only to complain about her position. We're meant to see the doctor as someone who knows better, who doesn't need to be challenged because she's just always correct, while at the same time feel irresponsible and guilty for expecting her to help.
Not that other doctors haven't been a bit hypocritical, but whereas other doctors recognised not only the drawbacks of individuals, but also the larger system that hurts us, the 13th takes this position of individualism, where all the worlds problems can be boiled down to "it's your fault for not using the system correctly". It turns her speeches about how "everything should be different" feel out of touch and unemphatic, alien to the human experience. It highlights how important it is for the companions to exist as that human perspective, to contradict the doctor's bias.
I think the best episodes are the ones with a larger moral to be told, where the conflict comes from man-made failings, but it's impossible to tell a story like that without seeing it from the human's eyes. Without that there is no solution. There's just some all powerful alien judging us and offering no advice beside "be better".
And realising this has given me a completely different perspective of the doctor. It really feels like 13th can be analogous to a modern corporation. Offering their judgement without knowing the true experiences of who they are judging. Blaming humanity on the issues and dangers they cause by the way they work. Fighting attempts to better or change a system that hurts an individual. Having the power to fix everything and choosing not to. Taking the most simple stances on social issues and diversity and representation without putting herself in a position to make real social change or fight for the minorities she claims to support. The doctor has gone from the authority of a wise outside observer, to the authority of a successor in capitalism who wants to protect their position. The worst part is I don't think chibnall would take any issue with that comparison.
This may sound shallow, but I was disappointed as soon as I saw her look. A lot of the reason that Tom Baker was as popular as he was -- as soon as he took over the role -- was because he had that wild, eccentric look: wild hair, wild eyes, manic grin, on top of his performance. When I saw Jodi, I thought "She looks like she could be playing a nurse, a schoolteacher, the mom next door...*yawn*..." I really feel some originality and eccentricity in her appearance and outfit would have helped make her more interesting, even with the crappy scripts. She may not have been the right actress to be the first female Dr Who.
Maybe? I mean as I said I think she looks SIGNIFICANTLY better with the darker coat. I felt like it helped make her feel like she had a presence
Thank you. Some really good observations here, and I particularly agree about the wasted potential of Jo Martin's brilliant portrayal, and the anticlimax of the Division/Tecteun reveal.
First of your videos I've seen. Excellent! You explained a number of things to me. Thanks!
So happy you found it useful, hope you’ll stick around!
Honestly the 13ths era wouldve benefited from having full on 22 episode seasons.
Like someone else said below they shouldve split the fam between the seasons, Ryan and grahm being the main companions for the first season, yaz and then the other guy being companions in the next
Unfortunately the BBC has no longer found that sustainable 😢
Wow, this summarizes all my frustrations with the era perfectly.
My only issue with the storyline here is that all the Timelords are now dead and Gallifrey is in ruins. It makes the 50th anniversary special meaningless. They ought to come back but more so as the bad guys in the future and the occasional good timelords to show up like romana. I can only hope. The Doctor shouldn’t be the last of the timelords again he should be a mystery with origins unknown even to himself. Only hints and bits here and there. Keeping the Who in Doctor Who. lol but idk I’m excited to see where the show goes
That’s why I mentioned that I’d love to have a story about gallifreyan refugees-gallifreyans who managed to escape the masters rampage unbeknownst to him, and have them try to find new homes on other planets. I feel like that would actually be a really interesting new status quo for Gallifrey, rather than leaving it at “Gallifrey was destroyed again”
Good vid. I mostly resent TC for making the Doctor officially "Special" - fully different by nature instead of *choice*.
It cheapens their whole thing about not being a typical Time Lord a-hole. Esp as a kid/family show, "make choices you feel are right" or "it's ok to follow your own path" is a better look than just another "hero because was secretly born a princess/prophet/wizard/unicorn" trope-fest.
BUT great insight into the ways it could've been better, and where it could go. Brilliant idea trading the fob watch memories! More meaningful & doesn't leave the universe hanging. Here's hoping for better days ahead :)
Incredible analysis that highlights the frustrating potential of the Chibnall era. Your suggestion of having the Doctor sacrifice her memories to win back the lost worlds post-Flux was brilliant and would have done wonders for that story.
Thank you so much Pup!!! I’m so happy you enjoyed it. If you are willing I’d be super appreciative if you shared it 😊
This is a great summary of all the problems I had with the Thirteen's run, thanks, I am now going to share this video with my friends instead of having to explain it myself :)
Awesome, thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it!
I love these kind of reviews which don't just devolve into negativity, or worse, politically charged grifting, but give a proper analysis on the flaws and missed potential of a work they're dissatisfied with
Thank you! That’s exactly what I was going for
I don’t think saying “13 white men” was the right way to go. Instead Chibnall should have made the timeless child to be some new villain. Gives the doctor a genuine conflict when regenerating.
The 13th Doctor needs good writing and i hope BIg Finish when they get the rights to her, give her some high quality stories
They aparrently have two Fugitive Doctor boxsets and two Spymaster boxsets in the works, though it's been a couple years since those were, probably prematurely, announced.
Have you listened to any Big Finish releases recently? They’re already woke-infected and have been for some time, and their female writers a.l.a. Lisa McMullin are DREADFUL . . . I’ve regretted downloading the last few that I did and I’ve NEVER regretted listening to ‘em until recently.
Woke-infected? What does that mean?
@@adammyers7383 - you legitimately don’t know or you simply object to my statement?
Woke is a term that has gone through a lot of meanings, so I’m curious specifically what you mean. I’ve heard woke used as kind of a general insult, a catch-all for the existence of anyone non-white or non-male, the milquetoast and performative diversity/progressivism that does the barest minimum to vaguely gesture at societal progress, and of course there’s the original version of the term from African American vernacular English (aka AAVE) which meant to be aware of systemic injustices that affected the black community-among others.
This was a great analysis video.
Glad you enjoyed it!!
Part of the problem for me is right now the UK is having a general election. And you could cut some of 13ths speeches and use them in a Tory party political broadcast
I might be very wrong but i always thiught that the highbrid was capaldi and clara. The hybrid was the being the dr became after clara died, willing to fight for billions of years and use a gun to shoot a Galefraien soldier just to bring her back
Yes that is what was essentially confirmed in series 9, or at least it was one of the theories that Me brought up and it seemed to be what Moffat was going for. it still fell flat for a lot of people though, and I personally don’t think it takes away from the toxicity of that relationship for the hybrid to be confirmed as something more satisfying.
@@adammyers7383 It doesn't 'seem to be anything' it's made clear as day - "I went too far. I became the Hybrid"- The Doctor. Only thing confusing about the Hybrid plot line is why so many people are confused when it's right there in the script. The Doctor completely fulfils the prophecy, two warrior species acting as one- Human and Time Lord/Clara and the Doctor, the Hybrid will stand in the ruins of Gallifrey- this is where 12 meets Me, and he will unravel the Web of Time to save his broken heart - by saving Clara to ease his own pain of loss and breaking a fixed point, her death, it would unravel the Web of Time. It couldn't be made clearer in the episode.
I believe what I said was that it falls flat for a lot of fans, not that it wasn’t clearly conveyed
" or at least it was one of the theories that Me brought up and it seemed to be what Moffat was going for."- that makes it sound like it was vague and up for debate or question, when it in fact it's completely answered unequivocally in the episode, it's not what 'Moffat was going for' it's what he categorically tells us happened in the dialogue and what's on screen.
@pettytyrant2720 ah, fair enough. Clearly I should have rewatched that scene more carefully. I appreciate the feedback!
Wow, first 11 minutes I learned something new. (or seriously forgetten that detail.
Ryan's an engineer!?
Well, taking classes to be a mechanic. Not quite the same.
@@adammyers7383 oh alright. would've been nice to see him try to learn more from the Doctor.
Overall great video detailing some of the missed story opportunities. Definitely hope that we'll see more of Jo Martin's Doctor one day in this new era.
@GrimDrago thanks! And yeah me too. RTD built on the flux in the 60th anniversary specials and built on the timeless child in the Christmas special by emotionally connecting The Doctor to the new companion through their respective adoption experiences, so he’s definitely considering how Chibnall’s era is useful to stories he thinks are worth telling.
Excellent essay, please accept my sub. You put a lot of my frustrations about Chibnalls era (and similar mystery box arcs like Rey) into words i couldnt find.
Thank you so much, welcome to the channel!
Literally everything I’ve thought while watching 13’s era
When William Hartnell's medical problems made him unable to continue as The Doctor there were two obvious paths the show could have followed:
1. They could have simply ended it there, announced that the show would be cancelled at the end of the third season.
2. They could have found an actor who looked somewhat like William Hartnell, cast him in the role, and continued as if nothing had happened. It probably would have worked; it would have bought _Doctor Who_ a few more years before the show died.
But then someone at the BBC had a genius idea and the show took a third path - since The Doctor only LOOKS like a human but is actually something else entirely, who's to say that he doesn't handle death differently than humans do? Maybe he can, I don't know, regenerate or something?
And if your main protagonist can regenerate your show can become immortal.
Except immortality sounds rather extreme; there have to be SOME limitations. Surely we won't need more than twelve regenerations; the show will die a natural death long before we use up that many, right? Oops.
I think "The Timeless Children" was Chibnall contributing an answer to how The Doctor can keep regenerating so long after they should have been permanently gone. And frankly, it's the only answer ANYONE has come up with that makes any sense at all. I can understand if people don't like it; that's fine. But what alternative do we have?
Also, I would point out that Davies is already making good use of it, not just as an explanation for how The Doctor can keep regenerating, but also to have Ncuti's Doctor engage in the self-reflection that Jodi's Doctor didn't. It's becoming an important part of The Doctor's character, and this is a good thing. Life is about growth and change. If The Doctor ever stops growing then the potential for limitless regenerations won't matter, because The Doctor will already be dead inside, where it really counts.
Interesting thoughts
You've got some interesting and effective ideas to improve things. I hadn't considered changing it so Jack Robertson wanting the spiders to suffer, or having the Doctor offer to trade her old memories to undo the Flux.
But I don't think I can get on board with your statement about choices and the Doctor not remembering the Timeless Child. You said "[T]he Doctor doesn't remember any of these other lives outside of the regeneration cycle we're familiar with. None of their choices, from Hartnell to Capaldi, were influenced by being the Timeless Child." But, in contrast to that idea, we see Ruth (the "Fugitive" Doctor) being extremely Doctor-like. She calls herself The Doctor, she claims to not use weapons, and she has a blue police box TARDIS. She basically just is a post-Hartnell Doctor, despite the story wanting us to think she's pre-Hartnell. That all makes it seem as though the Doctors we know are just playing out a pattern or memory of what they were before. This is their decisions being determined by what came before.
I don’t think that’s the case. First, I think it’s worth noting that there’s actually no proof she’s pre-hartnell, and it’s honestly more likely she is in between the 2nd and third doctors when the time lords were in control of the doctors regenerations and were able to restrict their TARDIS. Second, just because their nature as the doctor, their values and beliefs, remain across their lives doesn’t mean that’s who they are destined to be-it just means it’s who they are
Autism isn't really a joke, I'm not offended but please Respect others please
Hmm? What are you referring to? I’m autistic myself, did I accidentally make a joke out of it that hurt you?
The stories are not meant to be about the Doctor. They're meant to be about what the Doctor and his friends experience. So, worrying about the Doctor's "potential" is misplaced.
I did not hate the thirteenth doctor, just for me I watched once and probably wont watch again. I have watched all the other doctors at least 3 times through. The timeless child was not a bad idea, but should have been discovered over and entire series and not just a 5 minute monologue.
If nothing else you can say that Chibnall created an interesting sandbox for future writers to explore
Precisely 😊
Um, that sandbox he “created”, was already there for over 50 years before he showed up and started eating the sand and replacing it with kitty litter
I just wanted to say this is the most insightful and constructive video reflecting on the 13th Doctor's era I have seen on RUclips. You made more constructive points in 40 minutes than Jay Exci did in his entire 5 hour video. I love positive but critical reviews like yours. Look forward to your next one!
Ahhh thank you that’s tremendous praise and exactly what I was going for!! Hope you’ll stick around and check out my other work 😊
Great commentary. I like Jodi and her Doctor. The biggest criticism of the era is the wasted potential you highlight.
So why is it so important for someone to ride a bike or someone to want to ride a bike? It is very normal for somebody who can't do something that is such an average accomplishment that most people on the planet can do it with minimal effort to be very frustrated and upset when they can't do it. Like fitting in or talking to a crowd, people with dyslexia getting very frustrated with themselves when they can't write something or read something people with a stutter getting extremely frustrated when they can't say something that they want to say these are all very normal things
If that’s why, that’s fine! But if he wants to be able to do it because he’s “supposed to be able to” despite no actual practical need to for daily life, that still should tell us about him then it ends up doing. How he views himself, how he views limits and effort and responsibility and the need to fit in.
There’s so much internalized ableism there that could have been explored. I’m not arguing that his desire to ride a bike or his frustration with it is unreasonable, I’m just saying it should have told us more about who Ryan is.
Also worth noting the show explicitly states it’s to make Grace proud of him.
I think a thing that could have fixed a lot of things was, show the 1st Doctor as the one who faught the flux originally. It would have made long time fans happy in making hartnels doctor important again, also it would have given reason on why the doctor was the way he was originally, and why he ran from galifrey in the first place, shame.
Hmmm. That has potential, but I would be personally mixed on it.
I feel like Fugitive Doctor would have worked better if she was the fourth or fifth incarnation of Romana who had taken on the title of her former mentor whom she believed had perished in the Time War.
Personally I hate the idea of getting rid of the fam and having Yaz as a lone companion. Those three have *so* much potential for an interesting interpersonal dynamic with each other and with Thirteen that I would've loved to have seen properly explored. On paper they each bring a different and interesting perspective to the TARDIS and I wanted to see those perspectives bouncing off each other.
Your position here seems to basically be that they should go with Yaz because she has the strongest relationship with the Doctor. But that's only the case because they *wrote* it that way. For example Ryan and the Doctor should have had a fairly high friction relationship because he's impetuous, gets easily frustrated and goes off half-cocked a lot. He should be challenging the Doctor more, while she should be more frustrated with his impulsivity and willingness to use violence.
Meanwhile Graham gives us something we haven't had in ages - the chance for the Doctor to interact with someone in the later stages of their life. Someone with a bit of life experience and wisdom under their belt, and someone who thought they were winding up their life only to be suddenly thrust into this madness. As you point out, he's also largely there to keep an eye on Ryan and serves a similar role to Rory in Eleven's era.
I don't want to see any of them gone, I want them all to stay *and be written better.*
That would have been great too!!
A daft old man who stole a magical box.... until it was revealed that he was already the Doctor who had a police box Tardis which made no sense. A renegade Timelord who left his home planet for reasons unknown and kept his true name a secret.... to simply being born better then everyone since his existence created the most advanced society in the universe. Chris sadly was focused on cheap shock value, like Gallifrey falls again which was very unoriginal, and over-glorify the hero instead of plot because he was simply lazy, since the reveal was like a flat tire and Chris trying to make it make sense made it worse and needed a better writer to fix it. Having the Toymaker making a jigsaw of the Doctor's history was the only way to make sense of it and it could be said that he wanted the Doctor to be forever to he could continue to play with the one who gives the thrill of possibly losing, a gamble, since he played games to ease his boredom. It probably would have worked better if the elderly 11th Doctor became the host of the Timeless Child who was now pure energy which allowed him to regenerate again and having it revealed that there was a secret history of Gallifrey that some Timelords were willing to kill to make it remain a secret without sacrificing what made the show unique and making it generic. That the 13th Doctor wanted the truth to be revealed to her people and bring justice to the actual Timeless Child.
Let's remember what the Doctor was like when the classical series started. He seemed to have the potential of becoming a villain while I always thought his granddaughter kept him from being so and when she left, the name Doctor, which he gave himself after fleeing from his own people and keeping his true name a secret, a "promise" to her. That this was the reason he helped people because he didn't want to disappoint Susan. That it was Susan who created the legendary Doctor, but again, Chris replaced it with something generic. Then there's the 7th Doctor era where clues were revealed that it was more then boredom that made him leave when it was revealed that the 1st Doctor was coming back from an errand that involved the Hand of Omega when he first met his granddaughter's teachers while Chris seems to want us to think it was because of the division that the Doctor didn't remember while he seemed to know why he did what he did. Remember when Davros told the 12th Doctor that he didn't run like a man who was bored and he even confessed later on and it made you think it was perhaps something that he was ashamed of and no doubt the 1st Doctor lied to Bill when he told her it was curiosity of good and evil. But again, Chris made it all generic with his Timeless Child which was planned very poorly.
Didnt think I would agree with you, but I do. Well made video essay, and i'd never made the connection with the first black Doctor being called the Fugitive Doctor - yikes.
Having said all that, I question the value of saying "well Chibnall had some good ideas", then systematically going through every major idea he presented in the show and explaing why it doesn't work.
Yes, a more talented writer would be able to do something with these ideas, but as a writer for Doctor Who, I would also hope they can come up with bespoke ideas too. Do we need to sit through 3 seasons of drivel for the sake of ~5 half-baked concepts that might maybe be worthwhile in the future?
Again, stellar video essay. Look forward to seeing more from you.
Glad you enjoyed it! As for the value, I’m basically trying to help people not get upset when other writers like RTD don’t retcon/build on the unpopular decisions of the chibnall era by recognizing that doing so is recognizing potential that was always there. I’ve seen a bunch of people not happy with the fact that the timeless child in particular isn’t being retconned/ignored even though that was never promised. I’m sure there are new, fresh ideas on their way, but people need to accept that building on what came before is fulfilling missed potential rather than keeping canon ideas that were “inherently and objectively bad”.
I don't think Chibnal is a bad writer, I think Chibnal is a bad /sci-fi/ writer. Chibnal has had a lot of successful series for the BBC; but his DW episodes previous to his run were always mid at-best, if not out right terrible *glances at Cyberwoman* And Jodi's era continues that overall 'mid' ness.
There's some good stuff in there, I don't deny that and in fact I overall believe that Chibnall got better with each new season. I like Jodi's era, I like Jodi's Doctor; I don't even mind the Timeless Child stuff, becuase The Doctor being "Captial S Special" is something that this show has stuggled with/against for decades. "Cartnel Masterplan" as the biggest and what TC feels like its picking up on to me as a fan that's watched a lot of the classic era stuff. However, tangent aside... It always felt like Chibnal did better with down to Earth stories or strongly character driven stories then anything sci-fi. More often then not, its when He focuses on the Sci-Fi elements of the series, is when things start to fall apart.
Also, in regards to 13 and Mercy killing... I feel like her objection isn't the killing of a creature in pain that would die; its how/why they were killed. Let's reframe the scene somewhat; and replace "Spider" with some other Animal... something most people like... Let's say a Dog. I feel like the majorty of people would rather the Dog not be shot and killed in front of them. Yes it might be suffering and going to die... but shooting it, is still an extreme way to go about ending its misery. And of something similar we seen how the Doctor reacted in The Beast Below when he felt like he had no other choice but to put the Star Whale out of its misery; sure not killing it, but planing to lobotomize it... It was an extreme solution to a problem he didn't otherwise know how to fix.
honestly I stopped watching doctor who after the arachnids in the UK episode because the story was absolutely terrible and assisnated the character of the doctor for me
edit: I should point out that my biggest issue with this episode is that they had me agreeing with the Trump caricature over the doctor that yes if you are going to kill the giant spiders just shoot them, in an ideal world one of the companions would have pointed out that they could just shove the spiders into the TARDIS and find a place where they could survive and drop them off there.
You forgot about 13 using racism against The Master
I didn’t actually, I just didn’t use it as an example
This is a great video but I think 31:30 would have been genuinely awful. It'd retroactively lessen series 9 for me and just be a groanworthy moment. Like, the Hybrid was already resolved!! We know what the Hybrid was!! We don't need two Hybrids for no reason
Fair enough, it was just a suggestion
My main problem with the TC is that the Doctor seems to be the same person, as seen by Fugitive Doctor. It seems like they are destined to be the Doctor which I hate.
I don't think the Woman being Tecteun would fit as the Woman seemed genuinely concerned for the Doctor. Plus he recognised her.
The hybrid was already revealed to be the Doctor and Clara.
Being the same person doesn’t mean they’re destined to be the Doctor, it just means it’s who they are.
Like I mentioned it would have added layers, as Tecteun was quite one note as depicted. And I think it could easily be retconned in that there was a small memory of the person they once thought of as their mother, even if all other traces of their past lives were removed
And yes but it fell flat for a lot of people and there’s nothing wrong with adding an alternative.
Yaz! Really? Mandeep Gill was second only to Jodie Whittaker in having to treat every script she got as in need of a defibrillator. There was nothing to work with.
To each their own 🤷🏻♂️
What do you think was poorly executed about Dragonball Super?
I…don’t know anything about dragonball super
@@adammyers7383 There's no such thing as a perfectly executed story so you are correct even without seeing it. Messiness is even more likely when the plot involves time travel and the multiverse, and Super did.
I am ok with the concept and potential of Timeless Child, and I agree that it does not rob the Doctor of the individual trait of wanting to do more, help, and encourage positive growth. What I did not like was a weird repeated action of the Doctor in the new WHO era. When the Doctor finds out Gallifrey is still out there, he continues on as if it does not matter. When the Doctor finds out she is the Timeless Child, she either doesn’t look into it or runs away from finding out more. If the Doctor doesn’t care, why should the audience?
The woman in white with Wilf has always bothered me because I believe the writer should answer some questions or concepts posed to a point. There is not enough in the story to reveal who the woman is. The Doctor nor anyone else has never mentioned his mother. Just showing her and using her with almost no impact on hen Doctor as a character seems cheap and throwaway. Sadly, any time the writer has to confirm an identity or major story point outside of the story as presented means the writer has failed to this/her audience through the medium chosen.
One thing I didn't like was Yaz suddenly falling in love with The Doctor in the Flux season. It's not because it's a lesbian subplot, I should lead with. First, there was no indication that Yaz had any inclination that way until that season. If there was even a hint, it'd have been better. Second, it was yet another female Companion falling in love with The Doctor when we had two male Companions right there with a female Doctor. It could've been interesting to see how a female Doctor would deal with males trying to hit on her, either welcome or otherwise.
I mean, I can somewhat see that, but if I’m honest I can see the moments Thasmin shippers picked up on and even if the execution was a bit eh-especially because they had basically two episodes that actually cover it and then the finale completely drops it and kinda inevitably as a regeneration episode goes a bit bury your gays. Even so, I can see why a bunch of people felt there was a spark there, and if nothing else it made the Doctor explicitly non-heterosexual which I think was definitely much-needed after all these years.
Unfortunately I haven't continued since Bill was introduced but I've really wanted to watch 13's episodes and probably watched until the Rosa Parks one. That being said, I don't care about Jodie as 13 which really sucks as I really want to know her character. I think I'm enjoying the most of her through RUclips videos rather than feeling motivated enough to watch her episodes
I love this video but the constant on screen text we need to pause to read is a bit distracting.
Oh I’m sorry.
@@adammyers7383I loved it.
"Comment some gibberish for the algorithm"... OK
Some gibberish :P
Thanks!
Oh neat, Pokemon newer gen games for music
Adam could you please refrain from saying that word ?😭 I understand your intentions, but there’s sooooo much better alternatives! Great vid tho!
Which word? If I said something offensive please let me know, the last thing I want to do is make my channel a place unsafe for anyone, however I am still learning how to do that.
@@adammyers7383I’m guessing the word is “fam”. I cringed every time you said it, though not as much as when Jodie Whitaker first said it in an episode.
Perfect spin off: Jo Martin gets a few seasons as the Fugitive Doctor, maybe even make the first season her going from loyal member, to splinters of doubt, to deciding to run in the finale. Give us a few seasons, some directly about her running, but the majority of course being her being unable to not stop and help as she passes through times and places. Here's the elegant part: Final episode, she is caught, memory taken, and regenerated into "the First Doctor". And we make it clear Jo Martin's impact as The Doctor who didn't go along, but ran away, was formidable to The Doctor as a being, that despite the memory wipe and regeneration, what is the first thing The 'First Doctor' does? Run away.
gibberish for the algorithm 👍
Thanks!
gibberish for the comment section 🥵
I totes dig 13, she remembers the wonder of the universe. Also, I am one of the few who thinks the Timeless Child idea is actually cool, I mean the old days always rather hinted or even outright stated the Time Lords/Ladies are not good people, so them stealing regeneration seems par for the course for them.
Oh she got the best story, a good AI character. It was nice for once and AI was not only not the villain but indeed a hero.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the Chibnall era and the 13th Doctor!! I hope I did an okay job making this not too dismissive of fans such as yourself. I wanted to address my frustrations but I didn’t want to make those who enjoyed the era feel like I was insulting them, but it was a challenging balance to strike so I hope I did an okay job
@@adammyers7383 nah, mate, we’re way good. I thought you had some valid points well spoken. I think you were fine and respectful. And yeah, a Fugitive Doctor would be an awesome spin off series. We didn’t see much of her, but I did like her. I mean since they introduced that bi-generation thing, I wonder if she split off into her Fugitive self and Hartnell’s “First/Renegade Doctor”, sort of a fake her own death move. :)
Great ideas. Thanks. The fam had no character! Also, Chibnall should have made the Timeless Child a fresh character, then "Key-to-Timed" it by Division sending off the Doctor and the Master as companions in the TARDIS to find the TC. Perhaps the Doctor would regenerate into Jo Martin during this search.
I honestly think The Master being the Timeless Child would have made the most sense. Making the villain be the abused source of all of the hero's power would be a deeply interesting dynamic that would be very on brand for how complicated their relationship has been in the past, and it would make it even more vital that The Doctor try to rehabilitate him.
@@A6by That's a popular opinion, but the counterargument is that it means Doctor and Master will no longer be on level pegging which I value🤷♂
@@A6by That is a common sentiment, but as I mentioned in the video I felt it was more helpful to explore the missed potential accepting that because of the inspiration for the timeless child story it was never going to be anyone but the doctor.
This is an idea I've had since that reveal: the Doctor and Master are each a third of the Timeless Child.
The time lords split the TC's power into two children, Doctor and Master. The resulting empty shell would be left to its own devices, and become the Valyard.
This ties into Trial of the Time Lord, as phase one of Valyard's plan to restore himself. Take Doc's regeneration energy, and he'd be strong enough to go after the Master directly.
This would also explain the pure spite the Current Master incarnations have for the Time Lords. They either knew or should have known what they were about to let happen not only to the master (a grave insult in and of itself)but also their best enemy.
@@mhollis1989 This is my headcanon now.
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Sorry you didn’t enjoy. Hope you find the kind of video you’re looking for!
Clown there was no missed potential with the 13th doctor, her era was brilliant and well done.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the era!! I know a lot of people did and I tried to be respectful of that in this video
I don’t think saying “13 white men” was the right way to go. Instead Chibnall should have made the timeless child to be some new villain. Gives the doctor a genuine conflict when regenerating.
Could have been interesting, sure