There are a number of facts in Genesis 18-19 which demonstrate that the three visitors/men in question were all angels. Only the Scriptural facts matter; your personal imaginations do not.
@@johnspartan98 You are confused, angels don't play God, they can only speak for God but the do not personalize themselves as God. This was God Himself saying because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah that came up to me was great therefore, I will go down now and see …. here we see that the same God who was in heaven receiving the reports of the sins of this city is saying I will go now and see ( to see it for Himself not a messenger or angels report) COME ON WAKE UP!!! ..... Stop deceiving yourself when the truth reveals Himself, it is not for any man's glory but it is for us all to humble ourselves to the truth ie the knowledge of the Son of God. That was the LORD Himself that is why when He took on Flesh and Blood and dwelt among us according to scriptural promise (Isaiah 40:3-5), He told the Jews "Abraham your father saw My day and he rejoiced" this was one of the days and His actual coming to earth was another.
@@johnspartan98 Hello John, I appreciate your comment and just wanted to clarify something. Are you saying that Jesus did not exist until He was conceived by God's spirit in Mary as I understand that is what non-preexistence means? I'm also puzzled by Hebrews 1:2, " in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages", where it says God made the ages "through" His Son. What is your understanding of the meaning of God making the ages or eons through His Son? Thanks!
Keep spreading truth brother.Thank you for exposing false doctrine and helping to wake up those that are sleep and confused about the truth of who God is. God the Father is God and Jesus is His Son. May truth prevail. God bless!
@@roquerincon3722to worship Jesus as God is idolatry, to follow the way to God and the truth that Jesus was because he was sent by The Father is the way to understand this scripture it's just pure logic! When Jesus says I'm the way the truth, he means following his way of life and the truth teachings the Father the only one true God Transmitted to him. Because priests of false Roman gods are not the way, the truth, but Jesus was because he was sent by the True and Only God the Father
You seem to disregard the scripture below. John 8:48-59 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”[b] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
@@TheTrinityDelusionIt was the Father speaking through Jesus was it not, when Jesus said before Abraham was, I am. Jesus was not speaking of himself, it was God's voice speaking through him.
@@glennrobinson7193 when Jesus was praying to the father in the garden before his suffering and said “Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me” was that God speaking through Jesus?
Spot on! You speak truth brother! Of the three men (angels) the one represented and spoke for Yahweh, and the other two angels carried out his order of judgment and will. A simple reading makes it very clear with even basic comprehension as you brought out.
God bless you Cal... Trinity is a man made doctrine. Formed in 325 AD at the Council of Nicea... A doctrine from that Old Serpent, Satan... John.... Australia
Jonathan Soko Are you a Roman Catholic Mr Soko ? If not which denomination are you ? There is ZERO denominations in heaven... You may love your institution more than the truth... Which verse in the bible states the word trinity? When you find it Mr Soko, then please reply... & which College of Knowledge taught you about Trinity Mr Soko? God’s word is simple & not confusing... Greetings... John Australia
@@johnb5964 quote; Which verse in the bible states the word trinity? Show me where the word "Bible" is used in the Bible? How about the words, atheism, divinity, incarnation, monotheism, where are they?
there's no on as blind as one who does not want to see. I was one of them in the past, being brought up in the R/Catholic church. I was shown the truth and I rejoice every day for this precious truth. (Father and only begotten Son.) The devil want us to believe in another god, he wants to be worshipped like god. He's making a mess of this earth but truth will prevail. Pray for the people that they might want to see. Love you brother, and all the love this truth. blessing for your work.
Catharina Bellekom I recently read where now even the pope is saying Jesus was a man. talk about a sneaky plan of Satan. Now he's going to profess the truth after leading millions astray for centuries and brainwashing with a lie so when the truth is truly presented, it won't be believed! talk about an evil wicked plan but, it has worked and the whole world has fallen for it! except for the elect who can see the dirty trick!
Here's the answer to everyone's question especially Trinitarian"s to Angels being called Yahowah The ever existing one, in the Bible and it's meaning. Exodus 23:20 20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. 23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off. For my name is in him. obey his voice, because he won't pardon your transgressions. So sometimes Gods name will be on the Angels and the scriptures will call an Angel Yehowah, but it won't be God incarnated , it will be an Angel carrying the name of Allah, as the Angel is representing the creator. So this answers Genesis and the 3 Angels visiting Abraham and one being called Yehowah. Is the angel of Yahweh actually Yahweh? “And Moses was a shepherd with the flock of Jethro, his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the west of the desert, and he came to the mountain of God, to Horeb. And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. Exodus 3:1-6 Is the angel of Yahweh actually Yahweh? And Moses said, ‘Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?’ And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, ‘Moses, Moses.’ And he said, ‘Here I am.’ And he said, ‘You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.’ And he said, ‘I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God.” -Exodus 3:1-6 The text quite clearly states that “the angel of Yahweh” was in the bush (v. 2). But when Moses turns to look at the bush (v. 3), the text has Yahweh observing him and calling to him-“from the midst of the bush” (v. 4). Both the Angel-the visible Yahweh in human form-and the invisible Yahweh are characters in the burning bush scene. “The name” of Yahweh is Yahweh There’s something strange about God’s description to Moses that tells us that this is no ordinary angel. This angel has the authority to pardon sins or not, a status that belongs to God. More specifically, God tells Moses that the reason this angel has this authority is “my name is in him” (Exodus 23:21). What does this curious phrase mean? Moses knew instantly. Anyone thinking of the burning bush account does as well. When God told Moses that his name was in this angel, he was saying that he was in this angel-his very presence or essence. The I AM of the burning bush would accompany Moses and the Israelites to the promised land and fight for them. Only he could defeat the gods of the nations and the descendants of the Nephilim whom Moses and Joshua would find there. Compare Leviticus 11:45 and Judges 2:1 “I am Yahweh, who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be for you as God.” -Leviticus 11:45 And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, ‘I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors.’” -Judges 2:1 And he brought you forth from Egypt with his own presence, by his great strength, to drive out nations greater and more numerous than you from before you, to bring you and to give to you their land as an inheritance, as it is this day.” -Deuteronomy 4:35-38 “Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. And Yahweh drove out all the people before us.” -Joshua 24:17-18a And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, ‘I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors.’” -Judges 2:1 If Deuteronomy 4:37 is read in light of Exodus 23:20-23, then the presence and the Angel are co-identified. This makes good sense in view of the meaning of the “Name” which was in the Angel. These passages interchange Yahweh, the Angel of Yahweh, and the “presence” (panim) of God as the identity of the divine deliverer of Israel from Egypt. There weren’t three different deliverers. They are all the same. One of them, the angel, takes human form. No Trinity, no incarnation, just a simple basic explanation, of why Angels are called Yehowah. The ever existing one. Allah knows best.
When I saw Allah I stopped reading. It is not good for christians to listen to muslems as the entire muslem religion was instituted by the Catholics and is as demonic as they are. This is why Jesus did not allow the demons to speak in spite of them calling Him the son of God. We only know Almighty God allah is not the same being.
You've opened my eyes to the Trinity being false. Im going to change the direction of my channel to help wake others up to this too. Thank you very much
Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God. You're saying all Spirit-filled people enjoy the literal presence of most high?
+The Trinity Delusion attended church this morning. the pastor started off praying to the Father and in mid sentence changed to Jesus in the first person and ended off in Jesus name #facepalm
+Shane Walsh You write, "when are Trinitarians going to stop". However, the interpretation of "God" appearing to Abraham as Jesus is not a "Trinitarian" one. It has been taught from the very beginning before any Christian was called "Trinitarian". Those who learned from the disciples of the Apostles taught that two men were angels, but the third which was identified as "God" who spoke to Abraham was the Son of God. John demonstrates similar such things in his gospel, introducing them at John 1:18 and revealing them at various points along the way. You can't read Genesis and Exodus as well as John's gospel in a short space and not see them; neither can you read Isaiah and John in a short space and not see them, unless you shut your eyes to them. Additionally, it was not the two angels that destroyed Sodom, but it is written that, "the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven". Again, his was taught by those who learned from the disciples of the Apostles as indicating that the Son as LORD received from the Father, LORD, power to rain down fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah. You will all deny these through crafty speeches, but these are not Trinitarian in origin. Most of these arguments from your "brother" (who is really a false brother) rely on isolating scriptures and dealing with them one on one, jumping here and jumping there, and confusing contexts. Do you read the scriptures systematically and thoroughly? If not, I suggest to you that you do, and you will begin to see how this method is dangerous and destructive.
This is nothing but lies. His entire argument is based on the CLAIM that Yahuwah did not go down after he said he would but ONLY the angel went. He uses this to say that the two angels where Yahuwah, which the bible does not. He also uses it to claim that the man that talks with abraham is NOT Yahuwah even though the Moses the Jew refers to the one speaking to Abraham as Yahuwah. This man totally turns the scriptures inside out and upside down and then turns around to mock us for eisegesis. This is priceless. There is a verse in that context that he did not read that disproves his entire foundation and that is Gen 18v33, which states that Yahuwah WENT his way. So Yahuwah did leave and we know his intended destination which he stated in Gen 18v20-21. This is ridiculous but also revealing. What is revealed is this, the unsaved who hate the triune God will change the scripture as an expression of that hatred. Of course the angels said that they about to destroy the city. The "we" refers to their side, their collective, heaven. If i work for a company, is it wrong to say that we dont accept credit card if my boss on his own decided not to accept credit cards. Does this mean that i get to call myself by my boss' name? This makes no sense. Remember that this man skipped the verse that states that Yahuwah went to Sodom. He skipped it. These are the changes this enemy of Christ has made to the bible: 1) The one called Yahuwah by the Jew Moses this man says is not Yahuwah. 2) Those who are never called Yahuwah in the text are given that title by this enemy of Christ. 3) The text says that Yahuwah went to Sodom this man denies it. 4) This man ignores the fact that Yahuwah spoke in the third person AND in the first person when talking about Yahuwah. Which clearly indicates two Yahuwah's in verse 21 of chapter 18. The Yahuwah on earth is the third man according to 18v20 the Yahuwah in heaven is another Yahuwah. No it is not that simple. If representation is enough to have one called Yahuwah then please provide a verse where these two angels are called Yahuwah. Also show us where in the bible the following representatives of Yahuwah are called Yahuwah: 1) Moses 2) Abraham 3) Jacob 4) Isaac 5) Joshua 6) Caleb 7) Samson 8) David 9) Nathan 10) Solomon 11) Isaiah 12) Ezekiel 13) Hosea 14) Daniel
Abraham was glad when he saw Jesus... in fact, Abraham prepared food through his servants. (John 5:26-28 and Genesis 18:6-8). It is not a problem for Jesus to transform to any form... as with Luke 24:36-37.
As long as u believe in trinity u do not believe God the Farther is the only true God and believing in the doctrine of trinity is not believing in God.
Keep up the awesome job, Brother Kel! You're blessed by God and you're brilliant at exposing the false doctrine of the Trinity. I thank our Father in heaven for leading me to your channel and I thank you for spreading the truth about Yahweh, our one and only living God. I've had doubts about the Trinity right from the very beginning after I left a cult (Islam). I've been studying and searching for the truth for over a year now after I had vivid dreams about Jesus clearly telling me to follow him. I believe that was a direct instruction for me not to follow any false preachers. I believe in God and I know that there was something terribly wrong when I was told by some Christian apologists who I am currently promoting on my other channel, to believe in three Gods. Just to let you know that I am promoting your videos on one of my channels too, with over 100 subscribers, praying that others will learn about this false doctrine. I also hope that you don't mind. I sincerely think that your videos need to go viral because many people all over the world are duped under broad daylight but they are too brainwashed to see anything clearly, just like the Muslims. From my experience, the only way for you to make this huge deception known to the world is to encourage your subscribers to open up channels to help spread out your teachings, just like what I am doing for the Christian apologists (Christian Prince, Rob Christian, and others) who are telling the truth about false Islam. Christian Prince has become well-known all over the world even though he doesn't show his face because he has a great strategy. He encourages all his subscribers to download his videos and upload them on their own channels. One of my channels that is promoting his videos has over 7 million views in just over a year. That's how fast the messages could be spread with the help of RUclips. Anyway, that's just my humble suggestion for you to consider. May the Lord help us all. Thank you once again for everything that you do, Brother Kel. Keep well, remain safe, and stay blessed.
The text says the men left. It does NOT say one man remained. Abraham was still before Yhwh. It does not say what happened to the man who was not with the two who arrived in Sodom. But neither does it say what happened to the other two.
And God said, 'So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one body. ' So there are not two, but one Math 19:5-6
@niccierasmus3401 the interpretation I got from the idea of marriage and two coming together has more to do with how Adam and eve were created... Eve was made from a part of a dam specifically his rib.....the woman who is eve and the man who is Adam are one flesh but not two separate flesh for the woman is Adam's flesh. Because eve came out of Adam What do you think?
Yes and furthermore my understanding is that in a Covenant Marriage a husband and wife must be an inseparable and exclusive union, the “two shall become one” in purpose” . We know that the husband is not the wife and the wife don’t become her husband, it talks about their oneness not only in the flesh but also in the Spirit . This is why a marriage must mirror Yeshua and His bride and the relationship between The Father and His Son.. “I and the Father are one ..understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father “John10:30 & 38 They have the same (ONE) Will. “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. John5:19”
Jesus submits to the Father as he is the Son.. As a humble servant Jesus is in perfect obedience to his Father and therefore is his equal in authority and Judgement, Righteousness, Holy Holy Holy
I tried to listen to your argument but it only goes to show that you neither know the Father nor the Son; You neither understand the full meaning of the Son of God, you are denying God's reveal truth. The Son is the invisible Father's Person Revealed (or made visible). That is: the Image or Expression of the Invisible Person of God. That was the pre-incarnate Son of God but that is God Himself (because the Father and the Son are One) and you could not know that that was the Son then because the Mystery of the Son of God was not yet revealed and many are still ignorant of the full mystery of the Son of God. Don't be deceived, that was Immanuel (God with us) and there is only One that the Scripture calls God besides Him there is no other.
You know what's weird. The trinity concept has no bearing on my prayers. Nor in my day to day life. Nothing. When I pray, I pray to God. In my mind he is the creator of all. I have no abstract trinitarian idea about my God when I talk to him. Jesus is my saviour. He died for my sins. The only place it has ever been relevant is as a intellectual persuit in church. The reason was to try and differentiate the christian idea from surrounding pagan ideas. If you were to stand before God one day that doctrine will be out the window. Because it's man made. It's a formula concocted to draw a intellectual line in the sand. There is NOTHING spiritual about it. A lot of people I know do not have the intellectual capacity or even the philosophical inclination to try and make sense of this. But they are not doomed, they are not less faithful. A computer business though, trying to position itself in the marketplace, will have trouble attracting customers if it cannot differentiate itself from all the other similar computer businesses. Yeah, anyways.
There are a handful of people in the Bible who saw God and saw Him on His throne in Heaven and lived. I myself have been to Heaven multiple times, and I to have seen the Lord with my own eyes. The Trinity is correct, and Jesus is God the Son the Word. One scripture can never stand on its own. John 1 King James Version 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There is only one God. The Trinity was not Jesus Christ's God. The only true God was/is Jesus Christ's God. Since there is only one true God, whose God is the true one and whose God is the fake? Your Triune God? Or Jesus Christ's God?
@@TheTrinityDelusion God is ONE IN UNITY. If you deny Jesus Christ you will be denied before the Father, I am Moses, and have talked to the Lord face to face. Believe what you want, but i tell you the truth. Jesus Christ is God the Son, and He is the Word of God and the Word IS GOD. John 1 King James Version 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
@@ProphetsAmongUs The only God is Jesus Christ's God. There is only one God and his God was/is not a Triune God. I'm afraid you are telling lies and your God is a fake. The only true God is Jesus Christ's God and there is no other.
@@TheTrinityDelusion My friend, i lie not. 1 John 2:23 King James Version 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
The style of writing identified GOD's divine messengers as GOD - and while that is a known fact, it is obvious that none of the angels held the wages of sin against mankind as YHWH did
I'm not a trinitarian but note that first verse you brought up says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;". The last days are NOT now in the present - they were at the time Jesus was there in the flesh, physically talking to them face to face. The last days were finished and over with long ago. Revelation 1:9 "I, John, your brother and partner IN THE TRIBULATION and kingdom and perseverance that are in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and my testimony about Jesus." All this stuff is already done and fulfilled. Matthew 16:28 He is talking to those who are right there in front of him.... NOT to us here in 2017 AD. "Verily I say unto you, There be some STANDING HERE, which shall not taste of death, TILL they see the Son of man COMING IN HIS KINGDOM."
Genesis 1:1 God has revealed himself in three persons through out the scriptures. What matters is what the text says not what any cult try’s to interpret.
I feel that you are correct that the father is The God and you have given many good reasons for that. I met Anthony Buzzard and heard him speak and I believe he argued that Christ did not exist prior to Mary's conception of him, I feel this is a mistake. When I read John chapter 8 It seems to me that Yahushua gives personal and first hand knowledge of Abraham and this provokes the Jews to throw it back at him and say " you are not even 50 years old and you have seen Abraham" to this he did not deny but instead confirms and goes even further to state that before Abraham I am or I existed. We know that the Messiah is the Word of God and was with God in the Beginning (John 1). Christ is also the Wisdom of God and was a master worker in the creation (Proverbs 8). The Messiah is God's son ( son would be a deceptive title if not actually one generated by the Father hence not equal), the firstborn of creation ( has to be a created being to be of this group, The Father must not have been created) and existed before every other creation. I believe it was God's Son/Word that came to Abraham.
@@jb_1971 Satan simply means adversary, often in the plural! Every person who acts against the will of God is therefore a Satan (adversary)! Jesus calls Peter: Satan, think about it.
"Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6) ............If Christ Jesus was God, WHY would it be needed to say it like this??? ....."God AND of Christ". ........obviously that indicates very simply and clearly that Jesus is NOT God. .......does not take much brain to understand that. .............and yet the Trinitarians will not receive the truth in its simplicity. .....mind-boggeling.
Hey john I hear you but if that verse is referring to God and Christ as 2 separate people why does it say “him” singular right after? Btw I’m 50/50 on the Trinity just looking for answers thank you.
@@followhim1203 "for You granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those You have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:2-3) God Almighty isn't given any authority. This alone shows me that Jesus is not Almighty God. And he points out that fact here clearly. There is only 1 God, as in 1 individual. Jesus the Jew confirmed the old Shema when his fellow Israelites came to probe him to see if he had the same 1 God as they: "Jesus answered; The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; YHVH our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29) And all this seeing the verse you asked about, makes it clear to me that the 1 person that it speaks of reigning, is the man Jesus, and the elect reigning with him. All of them having been given that reign and authority by The One, YHVH, The God of Israel. Remember this important basic truth, as you read the Word, God does not contradict Himself, ever. ..and Jesus the Messiah does not contradict the Word either. When we think it does, it is only due to our lack of knowledge and insight.
@John Grytbakk thank you for your insight it’s encouraging to see that you made that statement 4 years ago and still believe the same thing it seems like I go back and forth a lot on the whole OSAS concept I will continue to investigate.
Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created:(A) things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;(B) all things have been created through him and for him.
According to Irenaeus, who learned from Polycarp the disciple of the Apostle John and bishop of Smyrna, what was handed down by the disciples of the Apostles is this: " *And again Moses tells how the Son of God drew near to hold converse with Abraham:* 'And *God* appeared unto him by the oak of Mamre in the middle of the day. And looking up with his eyes he beheld, and, lo, three men stood over against him. And he bowed himself down to the earth, and said: Lord, if indeed I have found favour in thy sight.' And all that which follows he spake with the Lord, and the Lord spake with him. *Now two of the three were angels; but one was the Son of God, with whom also Abraham spake,* pleading on behalf of the men of Sodom, that they should not perish if at least ten righteous should be found there. And, whilst these were speaking, the two angels entered into Sodom, and Lot received them. And then the Scripture says: 'And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven:' *that is to say, the Son, who spake with Abraham, being Lord, received power to punish the men of Sodom from the Lord out of heaven, even from the Father who rules over all.* So Abraham was a prophet and saw things to come, which were to take place in human form: even the Son of God, that He should speak with men and eat with them, and then should bring in the judgment from the Father, having received from Him who rules over all the power to punish the men of Sodom." www.tertullian.org/fathers/irenaeus_02_proof.htm, chapter 44. Cf. chapters 43-51
livealive : Yes, but if you go by the Writtings of the Tertillians/ Irenaeus is Ciaphas' proselyte of Antioch. Thus Acts said to the church, " Behold three men are seeking you". Arise therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing for I have sent them". And this is translated of Numbers, :" Now Moses sent messangers from Kadesh to the king of Edom with " thus says your brother Israel". Then Caleb quieted The People before Moses, and said, " Let us go up @ once and take possession for we are well able to overcome it" ( that translate R.8:1) For if I am an Offender, or have committed anything deserving death, I do not object to dying ( like the Stephen' s case) but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them !!! ( I appeal to Caesar) And now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law, Abraham nor the flesh of the 3 men will be justified, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. The tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them ( like it or not ) is Vatican. Vulgate God Himself will be their God and be with them. (( Kakvi sa tiq angeli posred bql den ??))
3:05 As an ex trinitarian, I thought seeing Jesus (God) was ok because it isn't the fullness of God, all 3 persons together at the same time. I'd never actually thought about why we can't see the Father LOLOL What a delusion the trinity is.
The Trinitarians only see what they want to see. ....only what they think proves their beloved doctrines and traditions. ......everything else they cast aside with ease. ...and quickly. .....and having absolutely no problem doing so. ......you can point to clear and simple verses, obvious truth, and because it contradicts their doctrine they will not receive it. ...they just disregard it as if it's not there. .......it's as if they're mad or something. .....totally in a trance. ......frightening to see how they behave.
Why do trinitarians try to rewrite the bible? If God says he sent 3 angels well then thats what he did he sent 3 angels. Why do trinitarians have to change what the bible says. Because it doesnt fit their doctrine, thats why. If angels can be referred to as Yahweh if the Father can put his name in an angel well that destroys their doctrine. They try to mold the bible to their doctrine because they dont care about the truth! In Luke 1 an angel of the LORD spoke to zacharias the Father of john and told him his wife would get pregnant. Now is this Jesus? No. The angel in the same chapter later says he is the angel Gabriel yet zachariah says that The Lord God came to visit. Does this make the angel gabriel The Lord God? Of course not. Luke1:11,12 11 And an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing to the right of the altar of incense. 12 Zacharias was troubled when he saw the angel, and fear gripped him. Luke 1:19 19 The angel answered and said to him, “I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news. Luke 1:68 68 “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,
In the 18th chapter of Genesis, it says God appeared to Abraham at Mamre and Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw three men. At the end of the chapter, God says "I will go down now," and says that the men depart and Abraham is left standing before the LORD. In Genesis 19, only two out of three men are present. It then says, "the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven" (Genesis 19:24). The doctrine that this is the Son of God, and that it was the Son of God who spoke with Abraham, is the same doctrine taught from the beginning, as can be found in the writings of Christians from the beginning. There are three passages of scripture in addition to this (Isaiah 13:19, Jeremiah 50:40, and Amos 4:11) when God speaks of this event in both first and third person. They are all like as what is found in Amos: " *I have overthrown* some of you, *as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,* and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, *saith the LORD*." You are in addition handling the scriptures deceitfully, by omitting the passage of nine months as well as the context of over sixty verses from the first chapter of Luke to contend, wrongly, that Zechariah is referring to the angel Gabriel as "God". In Luke 1:68, Zechariah is not speaking of the angel Gabriel who visited him in the Temple declaring he would have a son named John, but of God Himself who has visited and redeemed His people by raising up a horn of salvation in the house of David and fulfilling His promise to the fathers.
Hello livealive, Eugene here. I just scrolled down and here you are 1 day ago. Most Trinitarians who comment on these type of RUclips videos think of themselves as teachers, protectors of the Word of God and not as students who are searching for truth. Jesus experienced the same kind of hearers when he was trying to tell his people about the true God. You know who listened and understood and who heard and rejected the truth. Why do you choose to reject Jesus' teaching? Why not make Jesus' God your God?
Hello livealive, Eugene here. For many years I ignored Jesus' teaching about who God is and I tried as best I could to defend the trinity doctrine, thinking that Jesus taught it although I was never able to find such a teaching in the things he is recorded to have said. Now I try and teach what he taught. Do you know what "progressive revelation" is? Do you accept that idea? Thanks for your comments and your Christian service.
+Eugene Lanzl As Paul teaches the Philippians, the Lord Jesus, being in the form of God, made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death. This is a simple and plainly written teaching, that if you would follow both the wording and the progression you would have your confusion removed.
+dunklaw Correct!!! The reader must read that in. The text says the men left. The men left. if the men left then they were not there. Two of them arrived in Sodom. The text simply does not say where the man who did not arrive in Sodom went, just as it does not say where the two went.
1 John 5:7 this is God....the Word is God not Jesus. Jesus tells us in John 13: 16 and John 12:49. To believe Jesus is God is silly and why? He tells us over and over he is sent by the Father, he prays over and over to the Father and not only does Jesus tell us he isn't God but so does Paul and all the others Acts 10:38. Amen
Respectfully please, I am not a Trinitarian, I was always taught it was angels representing Yahweh. Having said that, it isn’t basic reading comprehension, it is a perfect example of the confusion created because basic ideas are clouded in words NOT anyone can just read and understand . Why does it not just say it! Then dumbies like me could read and understand without question. Seriously. Once faith in a person or persons interpreting scripture is gone you are left to try and figure it out on your own. With so many lives at stake I don’t get it.
B D: God has left extremely comprehensive instructions. Seek Him with a contrite heart. Be like a faithful 'wife' by committing yourself for life to the worship and love of the one true living God. This is the only way spiritual things can begin to make sense. It's how you can have the spirit of God like living water flow into you ( and out again in the form of the fruit of the spirit) Our spirits are blind, deaf and recklessly galloping to the cliff edge of destruction. We continually snatch the reins away from going the right way and ignore the guiding hand who can save us from our own wilful path. It's only when we halt our headlong headstrong ways and pause to seek another safe path do we begin to see the path we were bolting down. God will not let you down if you are willing to be His. He will not take the reins to turn you until you are willing to allow Him to guide you. Once you are willing and seeking, He can begin to guide and instruct you. You become more and more sensitive to the new spirit dwelling in you. Your old wilful spirit comes under subjection to a pure spirit that comes to master your own. This is how we can have the mind of Christ. He was obedient, compliant and humble. We can follow him if we are willing to give up the world to follow him. Our world. Anything that stands between us having a healthy growing loving relationship. Spiritual things begin to make sense. Truth starts to shine like a beacon in the dark. Your eyes open and your ears hear. Stunningly you can love the God of the OT that you used to run away from. It becomes no burden to keep His commandments because His spirit is flowing into and out in the form of love, joy, peace etc.. You just have to trust the sure hand that guides you. The fruit of the spirit allows you the knowledge you are being guided on the narrow way, keep on the path, remain committed, faithfully trusting the hand on the reins, stay connected and growing in knowledge of His word, your instructions come just as you are ready to follow them. I have found trust is the key issue. Read His good promises and know hHe will not let you go once you determine wholly to be His obedient child. If you are a parent you will have experienced the purity in the faith of your child who implicitly trust and believes in your word. Be that child and everything will begin to make perfect sane and orderly sense. This is how we are drawn to love Him fully when the glorious light of truth begins to open the way. It's worth everything you think you are giving up. The things of this world do grow dim and it gets so much easier when you have the perfect example to guide you. The work is done in us, we just have to be willing and trusting enough to allow the spirit that is pure to do it in us.
I always believed that Almighty God does things by sending his spirit or angels to do his will and never leaves or need to get off his throne to do nothing , thus that is what Almighty God really means!
Excuse me, but where from do you get that these are angels? Basic reading comprehension shouldn't add words not found in the text. Angels NEVER not once appears in these chapters, not even in chapter 22. World you care to explain that? The word used every and each time is Ish and not Malaj.
This is one of Sam Shamoun’s main go to texts to prove Jesus’ pre-existence and how he is titled as Lord. He makes this argument mainly with Muslims, but others as well.
To what the trinity? The trinity is not from God, but the devil - there is nothing good, let alone holy about the trinity. It is the antichrist, as we need to get as far away from such teachings as possible.
"Yahweh goes to Sodom = the two men go to Sodom" "Yahweh goes to Sodom = two ANGELS who go to Sodom" Correct, except for the name(YHVH) "Yahweh remains with Abraham = one of the men remaining" "Yahweh remains with Abraham = one of the ANGELS remaining" Incorrect Think about what YOU are saying for a moment. You're saying that one of these three 'men' is the Father manifested in the flesh and stayed with Abraham while the other two went to Sodom. This brings up a variety of contradictions. God is not a man, no one has seen God at any time, no one can look at the Father's face and live. However you are saying that all of these testimonies are not so by insisting that this man was God manifested in the flesh. Don't worry though, I accepted it this way also for many moons until I learned that there is another way. It all has to do with the count. How many entities were there that day? Let us back all the way up to verses one and two: "And YHVH appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground," Genesis 18:1,2 Now let's read this very slowly and very thoroughly and count how many persons are described here. 'YHVH appeared unto him'. First off, this is a continuing story from chapter seventeen where Abraham and his house had just been circumcised so the pronoun 'him' here in verse one is in regard to Abraham. Continuing, 'YHVH appeared to him(Abraham). That is two persons or entities so far, YHVH and Abraham. Now verse two. 'and he lift up his eyes'. Who is this? This is Abraham, after seeing YHVH Shekinah(may also be described as His manifestation, Glory, or Spirit. The Shekinah is a shroud for His manifestation. This is how the Father appeared to the patriarchs, also to Moses. Likewise as a pillar of cloud or pillar of fire. This is also how He appeared in the tabernacle, His glory which covered the mercy seat). So, 'And he(Abraham) lift up his eyes(after bowing to God's presence), and, lo, three men stood by him(?). This is the key pronoun in this entire passage, the identity of this 'him'. IF you say that this 'him' is referring to Abraham then he has no need to run out to meet them as they are already standing by him. If you correctly deduce that this pronoun 'him' is referring to God's presence, His Shekinah, then when Abraham looks up after bowing to God's presence he then sees these three men standing next to the Fathers' presence, making it thus: ""And YHVH appeared unto him(Abraham) in the plains of Mamre: and he(Abraham) sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he(Abraham) lift up his(Abraham) eyes and looked, and, lo, three men(angels) stood by him(YHVH): and when he(Abraham) saw them(YHVH AND the three men), he(Abraham) ran to meet them(YHVH AND the three men) from the tent door, and bowed himself(Abraham) toward the ground," Genesis 18:1,2 Now as to the 'men' or angels. It is the sages understanding that an angel is sent for one task. Angels do not multitask. 1) Angel #1 = The promise to Sarah of a son 2) Angel # 2 = to save Lot and his family 3) Angel # 3 = the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah When angel #1 completed his task of the giving of the promise to Sarah, his job was done and he promptly left. This leaves YHVH and angel #2 and angel #3 left. The two angels head off to Sodom to verify the situation and carry out their tasks while Abraham and YHVH tarry and have their conversation. Hold on, I know what you are saying already. But but but it says 'we' are come to destroy the city. While it is true that there are many plural pronouns in chapter eighteen, the key lies in verse seventeen: "And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed." Genesis 18:17 Not 'they' said but 'he' said, the angel tasked with saving Lot and his family.
+Yehoshuarose " You're saying that one of these three 'men' is the Father manifested in the flesh and stayed with Abraham while the other two went to Sodom. " No, that's not what I am saying. The Father was in heaven. This was three angels. You should probably watch the video again.
+The Trinity Delusion Mhh, Ok, I must've misunderstood your contention that this third angel was an agent of YHVH. Still my point stands, YHVH 'appeared' to Abraham. The grammar and context of verses one and two show that there are five 'persons' present.
@@TheTrinityDelusion That's not true God is one of those men He told abraham that next year he will return and give Sara a son And he will go down to soodom
Yehoshuarose i believe it was Yahshua Hamashiach who saw abraham since he is Yahweh. When Yahshua confronted the pharisees he said before abraham was, "I am" and he said that he visited Abraham during that time.
@ Jon Paul Leigh. Heb1:2 is so straight forward it makes fools out of any who think this is genesis creation. simply take a concordance, look up that word "worlds" and see what it says. It is a Greek word which primary meaning is time periods. Eons in english. In the niv it is "universe" in place of worlds. That is derived by modern evolutionary theory because it is assumed a lot of time is involved in making the universe. So its only logical to a non creation trinitarian christian. Now take the primary meaning from your concordance, which is age or ages. Now put it in context with the book of Heb. Heb is about addressing those who were turning away to christianity back to their old past beliefs, jews. The very verse before, v1, says "in times in past God spoke through prophets and various ways, but NOW IN THESE LAST DAYS He speaks though a son." See, its about old ages verses now times. Its about a change in the times in Gods plans.!!!!!!! Surely this is logical? Scripture was written in Greek here, but translators have written down what THEY think it should say. So Heb1:2, does NOT say anything about creation of planets and cosmos! Its about creating the things associated with the NEW CREATION, things of the church. The new man. The new creation. Its all about Pauls NOW, not the old past ways of Israel. Eons, times, ages. Thanks for listening, just another trinity myth and solved by simple reading comprehension. I was stuck there for over 30 years, a strongs concordance solved it in 10 minutes once someone pointed it out as the enemy clouds these things to us, may the scales fall from your eyes bro.
@@ken440 I dont even have a problem w/ that, as even this comment was 8 months ago, but it by no means takes deity away from Christ. If the better translation is Ages then why is it plural? I personally see Eschatology w/ a partial preterist view, hence the old order done away in 70 A.D & a New Age brought in by the New Covenant by the blood of Christ. Im assuming your Unitarian which means you either dont see Christ in Old Test or interpret different, but just the language thats only used for God, such as He rides on the clouds, He rides a swift cloud etc, Jesus uses in New Test, primarily Olivet Discourse & Rev, but also OT Daniel 7 the Son of Man comes up to the Ancient of Days on a cloud. Not to mention the Son, which is in the Heb 1 text also but also psalms such as 110. We even have Christ doing only what God can & did do in Old Test in New Test such as forgive sin, heal & command the weather. Even the Angel of the Lord is revealed as Christ in Isaiah as the Redeemer. 1 Cor 10:4 they all drank from the Spiritual Rock, that Spiritual Rock that followed them was Christ. We both know this is only touching on it. You shouldnt say may the scales fall from my eyes when I think its beyond clear that Christ is God incarnate as the New Test clearly shows. This was believed & taught w/ early church fathers all through Christianity. If Christ is a mere man & we are to worship Him & God that would be worshipping 2, & only a God Man could be an eternal sin sacrifice for all sin for all time. We can go back & forth w/ scripture after scripture but if your set that Jesus is a created man to worship then lets not bother. Peace & grace to you
@@J-PLeigh8409 agree regards lets not bother. I will answer just your question re plural in heb1:2. Because as the head of the body Jesus has been placed in the same figurative position as Joseph was in Egypt, likke a prime minister, so Jesus is calling the shots in this age since he was raised, and in the age to come, the 1000yr as king of kings, so thats two sep ages at least. Blessings.
@@ken440 I appreciate the reply & your attempt to answer but of course this can be disputed as I see Him as the eternal King of Kings & Lord of Lords the Alpha & the Omega. Also that the 1000 yrs is symbolic like it is all through scripture. If we are to translate world(s) to ages, as I've seen both, depending on the context in Hebrew & Greek whether Universe, Cosmos, Ages, Aion, Olam, as its used differently than our English & deserving a deeper study. But of course being plural, the worlds to ages, its every age, from past to even the ages to come. Besides this Hebrews text, Col ch1 explains it in greater detail
@@J-PLeigh8409 well i knew you would say that, lol. Col, if you read the intro pages you see Paul is addressing the folk there who are losing sight of Jesus as the head of the body, and beginning worship angels. Paul has these angels ( more correctly sons of God, Authorities in spiritual, good ones here) and points out their positions of authority were appointed or created by Jesus Christ, as head of church and Lord now, having been made Lord as we see Peter explain in Acts2:36. Again this is not Genesis creation here, Paul is addressing the Ekklasia about Ekklasia issues. And b4 u mention it, phil2:6 is about obedience over self will, as in "who did grasp at equality with God", but Adam. "Adam was not deceived."(no the naughty boy intentionally chose self promotion). So Jesus, the second Adam, is shown not grasping but obediently following his Fathers plan, to the cross. If you go to jn1:1-n then you must bring Prov8 with it.
It just occurred to me....when the speaker bowed down to the angel in God's court (Revelation) wasn't God was right there sitting on his throne? When Abraham bowed down to the angel, God was in heaven and acting through an agent, so Abraham was bowing to God through the angel.
+Let Us Gather... The only thing about the account in revelation is that it was Jesus' angel, not God's angel. So when John bowed low to the angel in revelation (in effect bowing to Jesus maybe? To bow before a person's representative is as if to bow before the actual person?), he is rebuked and told to only worship God. Whereas when Abraham bows low to Yahweh's angels, there is no rebuking noted. Interested for thoughts on this.
+Lee Read Revelation 1:1 and ask this question: How is this revelation going to be communicated to John? Now look down a few verses and see who is communicating with John: It is Jesus himself. Now read this carefully: "I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of THE ANGEL who showed me these things. 9 But HE SAID to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And HE SAID to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and MY reward is with ME, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Revelation 22.
+The Trinity Delusion This revelation 22 passage is a favourite of trinitarians (the alpha and omega routine i particular) but in actual fact it is completely the opposite and should be used to disprove Jesus is God!! Thanks for the video and keep 'em coming!
The Trinity Delusion ] I don,t mean to sound like a broken record. But I say this often, [ The stupidity of man never ceases to amaze me ] people can see the word, read the word & even hear the word of GOD and still say that it,s wrong. Great job as always my friend. They just never caught the part when Abraham bowed to The True Living GOD. People always want to see things their way!!! GLU All the glory to the most high GOD in JESUS* the CHRIST name. [ AMEN ] [ B.PROCTOR ]
If you believe that angels (who are sons of God) can be identified as YHWH God, then why do you spend your time refusing to identify the Son of God as YHWH God? So you expose your theology as self-refuting. It is a lie.
God can turn you into a banana. Since He can, shall we therefore conclude that He did? According to your "reasoning" He did, and God is, and God does, whatever you desire. For some reason, you don't seem to comprehend what might be wrong with that approach. Go and read John 13:20 and see what you can learn from it.
In the New Testament, after Jesus had been arrested, he was taken to Annas, the father-in-law of Ciaphis (sp?) the high priest. But, when a guard thought you Jesus had spoken impertinently to Annas, he struck Jesus inn the face and said, “Is that how you speak to the high priest?” Then the passage tells us that when Annas was done with him, they took Jesus to the high priest. Clearly the angels were representatives of YHWH just as Annnas was a representative of the high priest.
Imagine a mere man striking the very son of God through the face as you stand in judgment of Him who was perfect in all His ways in this fallen world. My very innermost being shudders at the mere thought of this. And yet Jesus in his awesome mercy and grace probably forgave that man. I can only be thankful to the mercy of my Father in heaven for His mercy and superior understanding and mercy in sending His Beautiful son Jesus to show us the way to the Father and back home. Unfortunately we cannot see God almighty but we can see His son who is the Image of the father so whether they are one in thr or three or five in one does not concern me. My sole duty as a fallen earthling is to keep my eyes on Jesus who is the way the truth and the Life. When and if I get to heaven these other things will surly become apparent but that is then and my current situation is now. What's the point of knowing whether god is three person's in one body if by my actions I am lost and destined for destruction. I do however not agree with the trinity concept simply because of the words of Jesus in the new testament. Christianity is full of man worship and paganism in my humble opinion.
So God spoke with Adam in the cool of the day and was able to because Adam was perfect before the fall. After Abraham was circumcised he was deemed perfect, and God could dwell with him. When God says, "Let us make man" in the beginning, and when He visits Abraham, He says, "Should I tell Abraham what will come to Sodom...?" Who is the world is God talking to if he isn't three persons.
My friend why do you use the false name yahweh? The Tetragrammaton contains four consonants and three vowels therefore three syllables! I agree that the trinity is a false doctrine..
There's one problem in your first part of your argument. It's one word that contradicts your entire statement. Christophany. Like with Daniel and his friends being thrown into the furnace. Different parts of God have diferent qualities to my understanding. Father Son Holy Spirit
He said, “Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!.....Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, who has sent His angel and delivered His servants..."
The tiqqune sopherim are only seen as textual variants by scholars like Emanuel Tov. The variant to which you refer is negated in the following chapter where it states that Abraham returns to stand before YHWH, not the other way around. A survey of textual evidence generally shows that the subordinate stands before the superior so it is as much about rank as anything physical.
You say to read the scripture and yet prove to have not read the scriptures yourself. ie, nowhere does it say that Jesus appeared before Abraham, you yourself claim this as though it was written. Similarly, you ask why Abraham called the man Lord, and yet seem oblivious that Lot called the two angels who visited him Lord also. And so as you can see, this is nothing more than a case of the blind leading the blind. As you yourself are clearly not aware of what it is the Bible actually teaches.
I did not listen long. But Melchizedek was the person sometimes referred to as Lord. He is described as Hebrews 7: 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. This does not mean that Abraham was not also visited by the Spirit. 4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
The son is the word, the word is God. The son is the Spirit. Before his ascension he said: I will be with you every day until the end. Now, you can't say that the Holy Spirit who is with us now is different than Jesus Christ, there are the same beings. If not, you ban from the Bible Mat28v20. Another Comforter is not a different being. It's the same Comforter in another form, from a human form to a Spirit form.
"Abraham standing before the lord" is correct as evidenced in Gen 19:27. No contradiction for this verse in DSS - dssenglishbible.com/genesis%2019.htm Don't miss the concept in chapter 18. "standing before" is not literal, as it is used throughout the OT to denote the subordinate in front of the judge in a legal case.
God. Jesus himself says it and it's written several times in other places in the New Testament eg. Acts 3:15 & 13:30, Galatians 1:1, 1 Peter 1:21 etc etc....
If you doubt the trinity you are putting limitations on God and his power... don't lean unto your own understanding. Once you start to put God in a human box you will start to doubt everything
He wrestled with God Hosea 12:4 note he spake with us. But Jacob was by himself just him and God but he spake with us. Genesis 1:26 let us make man in our image. It's the Godhead Body(Jesus) Soul (Father) Spirit( Holy Spirit)
@The Trinity Delusion From your claims at clip 23:44 (Gen 19:14,24) that messengers represented their master, you therefore strongly support the fact that Jesus represented the Father that is to be called "Father", "God" or "LORD" So, with your strong support, does it disagree with what Jesus said in the Gospels?
Where did the third man go when he left Abraham... he probably went down to Sodom as he said earlier...? You are just avoiding the fact that the third man is JHWH and it is not the Father...and not the Spirit either... and also that 2 angels are just angels doing God's will (they are not called JHWH anywhere as oposed to the one that stays with A. who is explicitly called as haShem)... you have some problems with comprehension too ... for starters read through the WHOLE verse of Heb1,2 and you will see that not only was Jesus appearing to Abraham and Moses and Manoah but was the force of creation on top of everything. May Jehowah bless you and keep you.
This is nothing but lies. His entire argument is based on the CLAIM that Yahuwah did not go down after he said he would but ONLY the angel went. He uses this to say that the two angels where Yahuwah, which the bible does not. He also uses it to claim that the man that talks with abraham is NOT Yahuwah even though the Moses the Jew refers to the one speaking to Abraham as Yahuwah. This man totally turns the scriptures inside out and upside down and then turns around to mock us for eisegesis. This is priceless. There is a verse in that context that he did not read that disproves his entire foundation and that is Gen 18v33, which states that Yahuwah WENT his way. So Yahuwah did leave and we know his intended destination which he stated in Gen 18v20-21. This is ridiculous but also revealing. What is revealed is this, the unsaved who hate the triune God will change the scripture as an expression of that hatred. Of course the angels said that they about to destroy the city. The "we" refers to their side, their collective, heaven. If i work for a company, is it wrong to say that we dont accept credit card if my boss on his own decided not to accept credit cards. Does this mean that i get to call myself by my boss' name? This makes no sense. Remember that this man skipped the verse that states that Yahuwah went to Sodom. He skipped it. These are the changes this enemy of Christ has made to the bible: 1) The one called Yahuwah by the Jew Moses this man says is not Yahuwah. 2) Those who are never called Yahuwah in the text are given that title by this enemy of Christ. 3) The text says that Yahuwah went to Sodom this man denies it. 4) This man ignores the fact that Yahuwah spoke in the third person AND in the first person when talking about Yahuwah. Which clearly indicates two Yahuwah's in verse 21 of chapter 18. The Yahuwah on earth is the third man according to 18v20 the Yahuwah in heaven is another Yahuwah. No it is not that simple. If representation is enough to have one called Yahuwah then please provide a verse where these two angels are called Yahuwah. Also show us where in the bible the following representatives of Yahuwah are called Yahuwah: 1) Moses 2) Abraham 3) Jacob 4) Isaac 5) Joshua 6) Caleb 7) Samson 8) David 9) Nathan 10) Solomon 11) Isaiah 12) Ezekiel 13) Hosea 14) Daniel
Judaism before Jesus were Binetarians (two persons as God /two powers in heaven). Judaism after Jesus turn out non-binetarian in response to Christianity by departing from Judaism before Jesus. Who is right, modern Judaism after Jesus or Judaism before Jesus?
You need to repeat yourself less. It's like a broken record. I understood the point about the two men the first time but you said it at least three or four times over. Also it would be great if you could go into more detail on why you think the hebrew makes it more clear.
I saw it in an old movie. I have forgotten the name of the movie, they play it every year, around Easter; on some of the channels that play old movies. Anyway, Thanks for sharing.
Both Abraham and Lot bow before these men, but that doesn't mean that any of them were God or Jesus. In the video Trinity Delusion mentions that there are numerous occasions in the Bible where men bow down before other men. In Gen 18 Abraham bows down before three men, who evidently look like ordinary men, and he unlikely knew they were angels at this point. He addresses one of the three men as 'my Lord' possibly because he appeared more important than the other two, by the way he was dressed. Abraham would then assume that the other two men were servants of the first man. It was normal for wealthy men to have servants, and for them to travel with them. It was normal in those days to bow before someone out of respect and especially if they looked or were more important than yourself. It was also usual for certain men to be called Lord by other men. Abraham himself was called 'my Lord' by his neighbours (Gen 23:6). In Gen 19 when the angels come to Sodom, Lot greets them as Abraham did, by bowing down before them. It's unlikely that he would have known they were angels, only realising later as events unfolded. He also calls them 'my Lords', at least out of respect, and possibly because they looked like wealthy or important men. Heb 13:2 says 'Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.' This is likely referring to these situations where Abraham and Lot were practicing good hospitality toward strangers, only later on finding out who they really were. So bowing before other men is no big deal in the Old Testament, and doesn't mean that Abraham and Lot were doing something that must only be done before God.
Brother Kel what about Moses on the mountain with the burning bush and God spoke? and said I've come down to free my people from Egypt did he or did he send somebody else?
The one thing that was strange that hit me was that God has sons and daughters and Jesus had brothers and sisters that seems like a big issue to me. Justsaying
God the father or God the son and God the Holy Spirit, but what I know God the son visited Abraham through his three angels and he talked through one of his angels with three angels.
Three men appeared to Abraham, Genesis 18:2. Two of the men are called angels/messengers in Genesis 19:1. The other man was the LORD who stayed behind to talk with Abraham. This man is never called an angel/messenger in Genesis 18-19. There is no hint in Genesis 18-19 that this man was an angel/messenger. The unitarian assumes that because two of the men are angels/messengers, the other man is an angel/messenger. Even though this is never said. Genesis 18-19 reads as if the LORD appeared to Abraham as a man with two angels/messengers also appearing as men. An important verse in understanding what is going on is Genesis 18:33, "When the LORD had finished talking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home". The LORD who was finished speaking with Abraham left him. We know where he was going because he already said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me", Genesis 18:20-21. After the LORD left Abraham, he went to Sodom and Gomorrah to destroy it. The LORD saw how they treated his angels/messengers, and was ready to destroy it after Lot and his family were safe. This is the LORD who rained fire from the LORD in Genesis 19:24. And in the morning, Abraham returned to the place where he stood before the LORD to see the destruction that the LORD whom he spoke with had caused, Genesis 19:27-28. There are two options for the role of the angels/messengers in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19. Either they were not involved, or they were involved. Both of these options are compatible with how Trinitarians read the text. The first option. The two angels/messengers were able to speak as if they were going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because they were part of LORD's divine council. The LORD includes his council in his decisions. Some look at Genesis 11:7 as an example of this where God said to his divine council, "Let us go down and confuse their language", but then only God is said to have confused the language in Genesis 11:9. Some would also point to Genesis 1:26 and say that only God does the creating even though he involves his divine council in his decisions. A similar thing could be going on in Genesis 19 where the two angels/messengers who were part of the divine council spoke as if they were going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah but in fact the LORD who came from speaking with Abraham was bringing about the destruction. The other option involves the angels/messengers in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. To support this, one could look at other instances of destruction in the bible to make sense of this. In Exodus 12:23, we learn that when the LORD killed the firstborns in Egypt, the destroyer was killing on behalf of the LORD. The destroyer is the angel of the LORD who also worked destruction in 2 Samuel 24:16. But we learn from Psalm 78:49 that God unleashed a band of destroying angels/messengers. We also learn that the angel of the LORD is the commander of the LORD's army in Joshua 5:13-14 because the phrase "a sword drawn in his hand" is only used three times in the Old Testament, two of them for the angel of the LORD and the other here in Joshua 5:13 for the commander of the LORD's army, Numbers 22:23, 1 Chronicles 21:16, Joshua 5:13. Interestingly, 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21 are parallel accounts of the same event where the angel of the LORD is involved. Putting this all together, the LORD sent the destroyer who is the angel of the LORD to kill the Egyptian firstborns. The angel of the LORD who is also the commander of the LORD's army took a band of destroying angels with him and together killed the Egyptian firstborns. Perhaps something like this occurred in Genesis 19. The LORD who was on the earth took two angels/messengers with him and together they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by raining fire from the LORD who was in heaven. To summarise, the man who spoke with Abraham was the LORD and there is no indication in Genesis 18-19 that this was an angel/messenger. The clear reading is that the LORD appeared to Abraham with two messengers/angels. Genesis 18:33 proves that the LORD who spoke with Abraham was involved in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. And one can argue either way whether the two messengers/angels who came with the LORD were involved in the destruction or not.
@@DasWortwurdeFleisch The LORD and two messengers/angels appeared to Abraham as men. There is no problem here unless you think that the LORD is so limited that he can't appear as a man.
@@AaronOfJerusalemAndAthens Since no one has ever seen God (John's words, not mine), Abraham did not literally or physically see God. He saw three men who represented God. That's why it says that "Jehovah appeared to Abraham", and then Abraham looked up and saw.... three men. God is not a man (Num. 23:19; Hosea 11:9). Since all three men represented Jehovah, it could be said that Jehovah went down to Sodom *and* remained with Abraham (Genesis 18:20, 21; 19:1), since two of the men went down to Sodom and one of the men remained with Abraham. Likewise, it could be said that Jehovah rained down fire from Jehovah out of heaven, since the men who represented Jehovah on earth rained down fire from Him.
@@Bowen12676 When I originally wrote that comment I would have said that surely God appeared with two angels. More specifically, I would have said that the Son appeared with two angels. You must be referring to verses like John 1:18 and 1 John 4:12 when you say that no one has ever seen God. If you look at the rest of John 1:18 you will see why it does not refute this interpretation and why some strong supporters of this interpretation use this verse to support it. John 1:18 seems to rule out the possibility that the Father appeared to Abraham because "no one has ever seen God". Instead they would say that "the only God who is at the Father's side" has made the Father known (John 1:18) because whoever has seen the Son has seen the Father (John 14:9). This could then be used to say that the Son of God made the Father known by appearing and speaking to Abraham. I have become more open as to whether that kind of interpretation is true or false but not for the reason you just gave.
Whenever you see LORD in the OT, LORD is pluralistic of 2 or more ... Let "us" make man in our image; angels cannot create only God can, us is 2 or more ..... When Christ was baptized, it says: This is my beloved son and then it says that the Spirit descend in bodily form upon Christ; here you have Father speaking and Son being baptized and the Spirit of God resting upon Him, 2 or more ..... Jesus on the cross speaking to His Father .... Paul writings in Epistles declaring Father/Son&Spirit .... Jesus said no man can come to Him unless the Father reveals who Jesus is .... Many many more places in the bible declaring trinity: 1John 5:7-8; Gen 1:1-2; John 14:16-17; 1Peter 1:1-2; 2Cor 1:21-22 ....
The Three Men were The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Moses and Elijah ( who are the 2 witnesses of our LORD YAHWEH on every judgment of the LORD ) You can also reffere/call them the two Generals of the LORD You will See THEY are also promised by GOD in the book of Malachi 4:4-6 ( where they will come again as generals in the end time), also in Revelation 11 ( they will be the beholders of the wrath of GOD in the End time and here they are referred to as the 2 witnesses of the LORD ) and also in Revelation 14:6-7 ( they are referred to as THE ANGLE of THE LORD)
Hi, I don't know your name, but thank you for exposing Falls Trinity believing trapped, just like you spend a little bit time find out the false Trinity exposure, then if you go a little bit deeper into the Bible then you will find out that actually Jesus did not died for your sins either, and nor he was the son of God
+The Trinity Delusion yes I have been predestined as says Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. and Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will as far as a king, you got me there. So what do you do with the tens of scriptures that describe the Deity of Messiah? Like Is 43:10 etc... You sound similar to JWs.
+The Trinity Delusion LOL! No! but I was predestined to be a son not to be a lamb. LOL! I am being conformed daily. NOt easy. I blow it all the time. But one day, I'll be without spot or wrinkle. Anyways, I just don't see how you get rid of the Deity of Christ. I should have more problem with that than you since I am a Jew. That was a big struggle at the beginning but the more I studied the hebrew, the more I realize that God took on a new nature a new name, namely the nature of man. We get the divine nature and inherit that. He inherited human nature. This way unity with God is perfected just like in marriage where we literally become one, in as much as possible, in all things.
What about people that believe that one of the visitors was the Father Yahweh in a theophany? Same thing with Jacob wrestling god he is also called a man and an angel but why cannot the father take the form?
@@TheTrinityDelusion I'm just not opposed to the father taking on a human form or the form of an Angel if he chooses to. I already know it's not Jesus or a pre-existing Messiah. But why can it not be God himself taking on a form? Especially Genesis 18:22 distinguishing the two angels from one of them who is called YHWH.
@@mr.e1220 Read more carefully. YAHWEH said he would go down to Sodom (18:20). So how did that happen? "Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom." 18:22 The angels told Lot they were sent to destroy the city (19:13). How did Lot understand this? " Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, “Up, get out of this place, for YAHWEH will destroy the city.” 19:14 The angels were sent to destroy Sodom. "Then YAHWEH rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YAHWEH out of heaven." 19:24
There are a number of facts in Genesis 18-19 which demonstrate that the three visitors/men in question were all angels. Only the Scriptural facts matter; your personal imaginations do not.
@@johnspartan98 You are confused, angels don't play God, they can only speak for God but the do not personalize themselves as God. This was God Himself saying because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah that came up to me was great therefore, I will go down now and see …. here we see that the same God who was in heaven receiving the reports of the sins of this city is saying I will go now and see ( to see it for Himself not a messenger or angels report) COME ON WAKE UP!!! ..... Stop deceiving yourself when the truth reveals Himself, it is not for any man's glory but it is for us all to humble ourselves to the truth ie the knowledge of the Son of God. That was the LORD Himself that is why when He took on Flesh and Blood and dwelt among us according to scriptural promise (Isaiah 40:3-5), He told the Jews "Abraham your father saw My day and he rejoiced" this was one of the days and His actual coming to earth was another.
@@johnspartan98 Hello John, I appreciate your comment and just wanted to clarify something. Are you saying that Jesus did not exist until He was conceived by God's spirit in Mary as I understand that is what non-preexistence means? I'm also puzzled by Hebrews 1:2, " in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages", where it says God made the ages "through" His Son. What is your understanding of the meaning of God making the ages or eons through His Son? Thanks!
@AJ Law Right next to where it says one of the three is Jesus and again right next to where it says God is three persons.
@AJ Law Yes I have the evidence. Where is yours?
@AJ Law Why do you need a text that states "three angels"? Do tell.
Keep spreading truth brother.Thank you for exposing false doctrine and helping to wake up those that are sleep and confused about the truth of who God is. God the Father is God and Jesus is His Son. May truth prevail. God bless!
+Justin Doss God bless you.
Amen Justin.... Johm
😂 what does SON OF GOD mean????? 😂😂😂😂
It’s nice to know there are still monotheistic gospel worshippers! Keep it up! Praise be to the FATHER ALONE
we can still praise Jesus
But not as a god
Jesus said I AM the way and the truth and the LIFE. . . To worship Jesus is to truly love God the Father
@@roquerincon3722to worship Jesus as God is idolatry, to follow the way to God and the truth that Jesus was because he was sent by The Father is the way to understand this scripture it's just pure logic! When Jesus says I'm the way the truth, he means following his way of life and the truth teachings the Father the only one true God Transmitted to him. Because priests of false Roman gods are not the way, the truth, but Jesus was because he was sent by the True and Only God the Father
You seem to disregard the scripture below.
John 8:48-59
57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”[b] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
So where did you get the notion that John 8:58 tells you one of Abraham`s 3 visitors was Jesus?
@@TheTrinityDelusion john 14: 9/10/11
@@TheTrinityDelusionIt was the Father speaking through Jesus was it not, when Jesus said before Abraham was, I am. Jesus was not speaking of himself, it was God's voice speaking through him.
For the FATHER has LIFE in HIMSELF he has GIVEN to the SON to have LIFE in myself John 5: 26....
@@glennrobinson7193 when Jesus was praying to the father in the garden before his suffering and said “Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me” was that God speaking through Jesus?
Spot on! You speak truth brother! Of the three men (angels) the one represented and spoke for Yahweh, and the other two angels carried out his order of judgment and will. A simple reading makes it very clear with even basic comprehension as you brought out.
Wonderful message Child of God Almighty brother.
God bless you Cal... Trinity is a man made doctrine. Formed in 325 AD at the Council of Nicea... A doctrine from that Old Serpent, Satan... John.... Australia
Jonathan Soko Are you a Roman Catholic Mr Soko ? If not which denomination are you ? There is ZERO denominations in heaven... You may love your institution more than the truth... Which verse in the bible states the word trinity? When you find it Mr Soko, then please reply... & which College of Knowledge taught you about Trinity Mr Soko? God’s word is simple & not confusing... Greetings... John Australia
@John B to be fair he did ask you a simple question sir.
You’re seeing this comment for a reason Go & google it.... You will find much on it sir....
@@johnb5964
quote; Which verse in the bible states the word trinity?
Show me where the word "Bible" is used in the Bible?
How about the words, atheism, divinity, incarnation, monotheism, where are they?
John Mizak Trinity NOT in the bible... Who said it was ? Not me Mr Mizak... Are you a 3 God worshiper Mr Mizak ?
there's no on as blind as one who does not want to see. I was one of them in the past, being brought up in the R/Catholic church. I was shown the truth and I rejoice every day for this precious truth. (Father and only begotten Son.) The devil want us to believe in another god, he wants to be worshipped like god. He's making a mess of this earth but truth will prevail. Pray for the people that they might want to see. Love you brother, and all the love this truth. blessing for your work.
Catharina Bellekom I recently read where now even the pope is saying Jesus was a man. talk about a sneaky plan of Satan. Now he's going to profess the truth after leading millions astray for centuries and brainwashing with a lie so when the truth is truly presented, it won't be believed! talk about an evil wicked plan but, it has worked and the whole world has fallen for it! except for the elect who can see the dirty trick!
satan isn't a being though. Unless you believe in another God?
Thank you and GOD bless you!
Here's the answer to everyone's question especially Trinitarian"s to Angels being called Yahowah The ever existing one, in the Bible and it's meaning.
Exodus 23:20
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. 23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
For my name is in him. obey his voice, because he won't pardon your transgressions.
So sometimes Gods name will be on the Angels and the scriptures will call an Angel Yehowah, but it won't be God incarnated , it will be an Angel carrying the name of Allah, as the Angel is representing the creator.
So this answers Genesis and the 3 Angels visiting Abraham and one being called Yehowah.
Is the angel of Yahweh actually Yahweh?
“And Moses was a shepherd with the flock of Jethro, his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the west of the desert, and he came to the mountain of God, to Horeb. And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed.
Exodus 3:1-6 Is the angel of Yahweh actually Yahweh?
And Moses said, ‘Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?’ And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, ‘Moses, Moses.’ And he said, ‘Here I am.’ And he said, ‘You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.’ And he said, ‘I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God.” -Exodus 3:1-6
The text quite clearly states that “the angel of Yahweh” was in the bush (v. 2). But when Moses turns to look at the bush (v. 3), the text has Yahweh observing him and calling to him-“from the midst of the bush” (v. 4). Both the Angel-the visible Yahweh in human form-and the invisible Yahweh are characters in the burning bush scene.
“The name” of Yahweh is Yahweh
There’s something strange about God’s description to Moses that tells us that this is no ordinary angel. This angel has the authority to pardon sins or not, a status that belongs to God. More specifically, God tells Moses that the reason this angel has this authority is “my name is in him” (Exodus 23:21).
What does this curious phrase mean? Moses knew instantly. Anyone thinking of the burning bush account does as well.
When God told Moses that his name was in this angel, he was saying that he was in this angel-his very presence or essence. The I AM of the burning bush would accompany Moses and the Israelites to the promised land and fight for them. Only he could defeat the gods of the nations and the descendants of the Nephilim whom Moses and Joshua would find there.
Compare Leviticus 11:45 and Judges 2:1
“I am Yahweh, who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be for you as God.” -Leviticus 11:45
And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, ‘I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors.’” -Judges 2:1
And he brought you forth from Egypt with his own presence, by his great strength, to drive out nations greater and more numerous than you from before you, to bring you and to give to you their land as an inheritance, as it is this day.” -Deuteronomy 4:35-38
“Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. And Yahweh drove out all the people before us.” -Joshua 24:17-18a
And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, ‘I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors.’” -Judges 2:1
If Deuteronomy 4:37 is read in light of Exodus 23:20-23, then the presence and the Angel are co-identified. This makes good sense in view of the meaning of the “Name” which was in the Angel.
These passages interchange Yahweh, the Angel of Yahweh, and the “presence” (panim) of God as the identity of the divine deliverer of Israel from Egypt. There weren’t three different deliverers. They are all the same. One of them, the angel, takes human form.
No Trinity, no incarnation, just a simple basic explanation, of why Angels are called Yehowah.
The ever existing one.
Allah knows best.
Very well explained brother
Thank you sir💪❤️
But i believe in trinity, God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Amen
This is perfect. I will need to study this later. Thanks.
When I saw Allah I stopped reading. It is not good for christians to listen to muslems as the entire muslem religion was instituted by the Catholics and is as demonic as they are. This is why Jesus did not allow the demons to speak in spite of them calling Him the son of God. We only know Almighty God allah is not the same being.
You've opened my eyes to the Trinity being false. Im going to change the direction of my channel to help wake others up to this too. Thank you very much
Very good. "Basic reading comprehension" . How simple is this when you only read what it says and stop reading the 3 person God into the text.
God said,i will not hide my face from the father of nations,which makes me believe God the father and 2 angels.
Ezekiel 39:29
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.
You're saying all Spirit-filled people enjoy the literal presence of most high?
After listening to this video, I can't help but think, "when are Trinitarians going to stop? " thank you for your ongoing work. it's much appreciated.
+Shane Walsh Did the Pharisees ever stop?
+The Trinity Delusion attended church this morning. the pastor started off praying to the Father and in mid sentence changed to Jesus in the first person and ended off in Jesus name #facepalm
+Shane Walsh I've heard this type of prayer myself many times. BIG facepalm.
+Shane Walsh You write, "when are Trinitarians going to stop". However, the interpretation of "God" appearing to Abraham as Jesus is not a "Trinitarian" one. It has been taught from the very beginning before any Christian was called "Trinitarian". Those who learned from the disciples of the Apostles taught that two men were angels, but the third which was identified as "God" who spoke to Abraham was the Son of God. John demonstrates similar such things in his gospel, introducing them at John 1:18 and revealing them at various points along the way. You can't read Genesis and Exodus as well as John's gospel in a short space and not see them; neither can you read Isaiah and John in a short space and not see them, unless you shut your eyes to them.
Additionally, it was not the two angels that destroyed Sodom, but it is written that, "the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven". Again, his was taught by those who learned from the disciples of the Apostles as indicating that the Son as LORD received from the Father, LORD, power to rain down fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah. You will all deny these through crafty speeches, but these are not Trinitarian in origin.
Most of these arguments from your "brother" (who is really a false brother) rely on isolating scriptures and dealing with them one on one, jumping here and jumping there, and confusing contexts. Do you read the scriptures systematically and thoroughly? If not, I suggest to you that you do, and you will begin to see how this method is dangerous and destructive.
Hello livealive, Eugene here. You speak nonsense. Take your own advice and you will see how mistaken you are.
Yah bless you brother, please continue seeking truth 🙏
This is nothing but lies. His entire argument is based on the CLAIM that Yahuwah did not go down after he said he would but ONLY the angel went. He uses this to say that the two angels where Yahuwah, which the bible does not. He also uses it to claim that the man that talks with abraham is NOT Yahuwah even though the Moses the Jew refers to the one speaking to Abraham as Yahuwah. This man totally turns the scriptures inside out and upside down and then turns around to mock us for eisegesis. This is priceless. There is a verse in that context that he did not read that disproves his entire foundation and that is Gen 18v33, which states that Yahuwah WENT his way. So Yahuwah did leave and we know his intended destination which he stated in Gen 18v20-21. This is ridiculous but also revealing. What is revealed is this, the unsaved who hate the triune God will change the scripture as an expression of that hatred.
Of course the angels said that they about to destroy the city. The "we" refers to their side, their collective, heaven. If i work for a company, is it wrong to say that we dont accept credit card if my boss on his own decided not to accept credit cards. Does this mean that i get to call myself by my boss' name? This makes no sense. Remember that this man skipped the verse that states that Yahuwah went to Sodom. He skipped it.
These are the changes this enemy of Christ has made to the bible:
1) The one called Yahuwah by the Jew Moses this man says is not Yahuwah.
2) Those who are never called Yahuwah in the text are given that title by this enemy of Christ.
3) The text says that Yahuwah went to Sodom this man denies it.
4) This man ignores the fact that Yahuwah spoke in the third person AND in the first person when talking about Yahuwah. Which clearly indicates two Yahuwah's in verse 21 of chapter 18. The Yahuwah on earth is the third man according to 18v20 the Yahuwah in heaven is another Yahuwah.
No it is not that simple. If representation is enough to have one called Yahuwah then please provide a verse where these two angels are called Yahuwah. Also show us where in the bible the following representatives of Yahuwah are called Yahuwah:
1) Moses
2) Abraham
3) Jacob
4) Isaac
5) Joshua
6) Caleb
7) Samson
8) David
9) Nathan
10) Solomon
11) Isaiah
12) Ezekiel
13) Hosea
14) Daniel
Abraham was glad when he saw Jesus... in fact, Abraham prepared food through his servants. (John 5:26-28 and Genesis 18:6-8). It is not a problem for Jesus to transform to any form... as with Luke 24:36-37.
Correction pls.. Its John 8:56-58 instead of John 5:26-28.
@@rynanteterez1561 Genesis 19:24 KJV in context are two angels Read verse 13
As long as u believe in trinity u do not believe God the Farther is the only true God and believing in the doctrine of trinity is not believing in God.
The Trinity Delusion ] More great truth, I am glad that I have eyes that see & ears to hear. GBU [ B.PROCTOR ]
Keep up the awesome job, Brother Kel! You're blessed by God and you're brilliant at exposing the false doctrine of the Trinity. I thank our Father in heaven for leading me to your channel and I thank you for spreading the truth about Yahweh, our one and only living God. I've had doubts about the Trinity right from the very beginning after I left a cult (Islam). I've been studying and searching for the truth for over a year now after I had vivid dreams about Jesus clearly telling me to follow him. I believe that was a direct instruction for me not to follow any false preachers. I believe in God and I know that there was something terribly wrong when I was told by some Christian apologists who I am currently promoting on my other channel, to believe in three Gods.
Just to let you know that I am promoting your videos on one of my channels too, with over 100 subscribers, praying that others will learn about this false doctrine. I also hope that you don't mind. I sincerely think that your videos need to go viral because many people all over the world are duped under broad daylight but they are too brainwashed to see anything clearly, just like the Muslims. From my experience, the only way for you to make this huge deception known to the world is to encourage your subscribers to open up channels to help spread out your teachings, just like what I am doing for the Christian apologists (Christian Prince, Rob Christian, and others) who are telling the truth about false Islam. Christian Prince has become well-known all over the world even though he doesn't show his face because he has a great strategy. He encourages all his subscribers to download his videos and upload them on their own channels. One of my channels that is promoting his videos has over 7 million views in just over a year. That's how fast the messages could be spread with the help of RUclips. Anyway, that's just my humble suggestion for you to consider. May the Lord help us all. Thank you once again for everything that you do, Brother Kel. Keep well, remain safe, and stay blessed.
i'm a Jew and finally i see a christian that that can read the bible with a normal thinking
The text says the men left. It does NOT say one man remained. Abraham was still before Yhwh. It does not say what happened to the man who was not with the two who arrived in Sodom. But neither does it say what happened to the other two.
Jesus and God the Father are ONE. (John 10:30)
One what?
And he never answered 😢
And God said, 'So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one body. ' So there are not two, but one Math 19:5-6
@niccierasmus3401 the interpretation I got from the idea of marriage and two coming together has more to do with how Adam and eve were created...
Eve was made from a part of a dam specifically his rib.....the woman who is eve and the man who is Adam are one flesh but not two separate flesh for the woman is Adam's flesh. Because eve came out of Adam
What do you think?
Yes and furthermore my understanding is that in a Covenant Marriage a husband and wife must be an inseparable and exclusive union, the “two shall become one” in purpose” . We know that the husband is not the wife and the wife don’t become her husband, it talks about their oneness not only in the flesh but also in the Spirit . This is why a marriage must mirror Yeshua and His bride and the relationship between The Father and His Son..
“I and the Father are one
..understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father “John10:30 & 38
They have the same (ONE) Will.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. John5:19”
God bless you brother. Amen
Jesus submits to the Father as he is the Son.. As a humble servant Jesus is in perfect obedience to his Father and therefore is his equal in authority and Judgement, Righteousness, Holy Holy Holy
I tried to listen to your argument but it only goes to show that you neither know the Father nor the Son; You neither understand the full meaning of the Son of God, you are denying God's reveal truth. The Son is the invisible Father's Person Revealed (or made visible). That is: the Image or Expression of the Invisible Person of God. That was the pre-incarnate Son of God but that is God Himself (because the Father and the Son are One) and you could not know that that was the Son then because the Mystery of the Son of God was not yet revealed and many are still ignorant of the full mystery of the Son of God. Don't be deceived, that was Immanuel (God with us) and there is only One that the Scripture calls God besides Him there is no other.
You know what's weird. The trinity concept has no bearing on my prayers. Nor in my day to day life. Nothing. When I pray, I pray to God. In my mind he is the creator of all. I have no abstract trinitarian idea about my God when I talk to him. Jesus is my saviour. He died for my sins. The only place it has ever been relevant is as a intellectual persuit in church. The reason was to try and differentiate the christian idea from surrounding pagan ideas. If you were to stand before God one day that doctrine will be out the window. Because it's man made. It's a formula concocted to draw a intellectual line in the sand. There is NOTHING spiritual about it.
A lot of people I know do not have the intellectual capacity or even the philosophical inclination to try and make sense of this. But they are not doomed, they are not less faithful. A computer business though, trying to position itself in the marketplace, will have trouble attracting customers if it cannot differentiate itself from all the other similar computer businesses. Yeah, anyways.
There are a handful of people in the Bible who saw God and saw Him on His throne in Heaven and lived. I myself have been to Heaven multiple times, and I to have seen the Lord with my own eyes. The Trinity is correct, and Jesus is God the Son the Word. One scripture can never stand on its own.
John 1 King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There is only one God. The Trinity was not Jesus Christ's God. The only true God was/is Jesus Christ's God. Since there is only one true God, whose God is the true one and whose God is the fake? Your Triune God? Or Jesus Christ's God?
@@TheTrinityDelusion God is ONE IN UNITY. If you deny Jesus Christ you will be denied before the Father, I am Moses, and have talked to the Lord face to face. Believe what you want, but i tell you the truth. Jesus Christ is God the Son, and He is the Word of God and the Word IS GOD.
John 1 King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
@@ProphetsAmongUs The only God is Jesus Christ's God. There is only one God and his God was/is not a Triune God. I'm afraid you are telling lies and your God is a fake. The only true God is Jesus Christ's God and there is no other.
@@TheTrinityDelusion My friend, i lie not.
1 John 2:23 King James Version
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
@@ProphetsAmongUs
And?
Let me guess. You are now going to imagine things into the text which it does not say, right?
They do not claim Jesus visit Abraham but Jesus himself say your father Abraham glad to see the day of my coming and he saw it and rejoice it.
Genesis 18:22 And the men turn from there, and go toward Sodom; and Abraham is yet standing before YHWH.
The style of writing identified GOD's divine messengers as GOD - and while that is a known fact, it is obvious that none of the angels held the wages of sin against mankind as YHWH did
I'm not a trinitarian but note that first verse you brought up says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;". The last days are NOT now in the present - they were at the time Jesus was there in the flesh, physically talking to them face to face. The last days were finished and over with long ago. Revelation 1:9 "I, John, your brother and partner IN THE TRIBULATION and kingdom and perseverance that are in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and my testimony about Jesus." All this stuff is already done and fulfilled. Matthew 16:28 He is talking to those who are right there in front of him.... NOT to us here in 2017 AD. "Verily I say unto you, There be some STANDING HERE, which shall not taste of death, TILL they see the Son of man COMING IN HIS KINGDOM."
Abraham wasn't in "these last days" was he?
Genesis 1:1 God has revealed himself in three persons through out the scriptures. What matters is what the text says not what any cult try’s to interpret.
Sorry but the text and your imaginations are two different things.
I feel that you are correct that the father is The God and you have given many good reasons for that. I met Anthony Buzzard and heard him speak and I believe he argued that Christ did not exist prior to Mary's conception of him, I feel this is a mistake. When I read John chapter 8 It seems to me that Yahushua gives personal and first hand knowledge of Abraham and this provokes the Jews to throw it back at him and say " you are not even 50 years old and you have seen Abraham" to this he did not deny but instead confirms and goes even further to state that before Abraham I am or I existed. We know that the Messiah is the Word of God and was with God in the Beginning (John 1). Christ is also the Wisdom of God and was a master worker in the creation (Proverbs 8). The Messiah is God's son ( son would be a deceptive title if not actually one generated by the Father hence not equal), the firstborn of creation ( has to be a created being to be of this group, The Father must not have been created) and existed before every other creation. I believe it was God's Son/Word that came to Abraham.
3 main heresies in mainstream christianity: trinity, futurism, satan-boogeyman
Exactly.
What do you mean by this third thing?
@@jb_1971 Satan simply means adversary, often in the plural! Every person who acts against the will of God is therefore a Satan (adversary)! Jesus calls Peter: Satan, think about it.
"Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6) ............If Christ Jesus was God, WHY would it be needed to say it like this??? ....."God AND of Christ". ........obviously that indicates very simply and clearly that Jesus is NOT God. .......does not take much brain to understand that. .............and yet the Trinitarians will not receive the truth in its simplicity. .....mind-boggeling.
Hey john I hear you but if that verse is referring to God and Christ as 2 separate people why does it say “him” singular right after? Btw I’m 50/50 on the Trinity just looking for answers thank you.
@@followhim1203 "for You granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those You have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:2-3) God Almighty isn't given any authority. This alone shows me that Jesus is not Almighty God. And he points out that fact here clearly. There is only 1 God, as in 1 individual. Jesus the Jew confirmed the old Shema when his fellow Israelites came to probe him to see if he had the same 1 God as they: "Jesus answered; The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; YHVH our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)
And all this seeing the verse you asked about, makes it clear to me that the 1 person that it speaks of reigning, is the man Jesus, and the elect reigning with him. All of them having been given that reign and authority by The One, YHVH, The God of Israel.
Remember this important basic truth, as you read the Word, God does not contradict Himself, ever. ..and Jesus the Messiah does not contradict the Word either. When we think it does, it is only due to our lack of knowledge and insight.
@John Grytbakk thank you for your insight it’s encouraging to see that you made that statement 4 years ago and still believe the same thing it seems like I go back and forth a lot on the whole OSAS concept I will continue to investigate.
@@followhim1203
And don't forget to pray to God to give you open eyes to see the truth. Our intellect isn't always enough.
Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created:(A) things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;(B) all things have been created through him and for him.
Read the context. Paul is referring to the risen Christ and what happened when he sat down at God's right hand.
a man can be a messenger and here take it as read, 3 men.
According to Irenaeus, who learned from Polycarp the disciple of the Apostle John and bishop of Smyrna, what was handed down by the disciples of the Apostles is this: " *And again Moses tells how the Son of God drew near to hold converse with Abraham:* 'And *God* appeared unto him by the oak of Mamre in the middle of the day. And looking up with his eyes he beheld, and, lo, three men stood over against him. And he bowed himself down to the earth, and said: Lord, if indeed I have found favour in thy sight.' And all that which follows he spake with the Lord, and the Lord spake with him. *Now two of the three were angels; but one was the Son of God, with whom also Abraham spake,* pleading on behalf of the men of Sodom, that they should not perish if at least ten righteous should be found there. And, whilst these were speaking, the two angels entered into Sodom, and Lot received them. And then the Scripture says: 'And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven:' *that is to say, the Son, who spake with Abraham, being Lord, received power to punish the men of Sodom from the Lord out of heaven, even from the Father who rules over all.* So Abraham was a prophet and saw things to come, which were to take place in human form: even the Son of God, that He should speak with men and eat with them, and then should bring in the judgment from the Father, having received from Him who rules over all the power to punish the men of Sodom."
www.tertullian.org/fathers/irenaeus_02_proof.htm, chapter 44. Cf. chapters 43-51
livealive : Yes, but if you go by the Writtings of the Tertillians/ Irenaeus is Ciaphas' proselyte of Antioch. Thus Acts said to the church,
" Behold three men are seeking you". Arise therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing for I have sent them". And this is translated of Numbers, :" Now Moses sent messangers from Kadesh to the king of Edom with " thus says your brother Israel". Then Caleb quieted The People before Moses, and said, " Let us go up @ once and take possession for we are well able to overcome it" ( that translate R.8:1) For if I am an Offender, or have committed anything deserving death, I do not object to dying ( like the Stephen' s case) but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them !!! ( I appeal to Caesar) And now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law, Abraham nor the flesh of the 3 men will be justified, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. The tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them ( like it or not ) is Vatican. Vulgate God Himself will be their God and be with them. (( Kakvi sa tiq angeli posred bql den ??))
3:05 As an ex trinitarian, I thought seeing Jesus (God) was ok because it isn't the fullness of God, all 3 persons together at the same time. I'd never actually thought about why we can't see the Father LOLOL What a delusion the trinity is.
The Trinitarians only see what they want to see. ....only what they think proves their beloved doctrines and traditions. ......everything else they cast aside with ease. ...and quickly. .....and having absolutely no problem doing so. ......you can point to clear and simple verses, obvious truth, and because it contradicts their doctrine they will not receive it. ...they just disregard it as if it's not there. .......it's as if they're mad or something. .....totally in a trance. ......frightening to see how they behave.
John Grybakk ] So true my friend. GBU [ B.PROCTOR ]
I couldn’t have said it better myself John. Well said😉
Why do trinitarians try to rewrite the bible? If God says he sent 3 angels well then thats what he did he sent 3 angels. Why do trinitarians have to change what the bible says. Because it doesnt fit their doctrine, thats why. If angels can be referred to as Yahweh if the Father can put his name in an angel well that destroys their doctrine. They try to mold the bible to their doctrine because they dont care about the truth!
In Luke 1 an angel of the LORD
spoke to zacharias the Father of john and told him his wife would get pregnant. Now is this Jesus? No. The angel in the same chapter later says he is the angel Gabriel yet zachariah says that The Lord God came to visit. Does this make the angel gabriel The Lord God? Of course not.
Luke1:11,12
11 And an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing to the right of the altar of incense. 12 Zacharias was troubled when he saw the angel, and fear gripped him.
Luke 1:19
19 The angel answered and said to him, “I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.
Luke 1:68
68 “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,
In the 18th chapter of Genesis, it says God appeared to Abraham at Mamre and Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw three men. At the end of the chapter, God says "I will go down now," and says that the men depart and Abraham is left standing before the LORD. In Genesis 19, only two out of three men are present. It then says, "the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven" (Genesis 19:24). The doctrine that this is the Son of God, and that it was the Son of God who spoke with Abraham, is the same doctrine taught from the beginning, as can be found in the writings of Christians from the beginning.
There are three passages of scripture in addition to this (Isaiah 13:19, Jeremiah 50:40, and Amos 4:11) when God speaks of this event in both first and third person. They are all like as what is found in Amos: " *I have overthrown* some of you, *as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,* and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, *saith the LORD*."
You are in addition handling the scriptures deceitfully, by omitting the passage of nine months as well as the context of over sixty verses from the first chapter of Luke to contend, wrongly, that Zechariah is referring to the angel Gabriel as "God". In Luke 1:68, Zechariah is not speaking of the angel Gabriel who visited him in the Temple declaring he would have a son named John, but of God Himself who has visited and redeemed His people by raising up a horn of salvation in the house of David and fulfilling His promise to the fathers.
Hello livealive, Eugene here. I just scrolled down and here you are 1 day ago. Most Trinitarians who comment on these type of RUclips videos think of themselves as teachers, protectors of the Word of God and not as students who are searching for truth. Jesus experienced the same kind of hearers when he was trying to tell his people about the true God. You know who listened and understood and who heard and rejected the truth. Why do you choose to reject Jesus' teaching? Why not make Jesus' God your God?
+Eugene Lanzl You wrote, "Why do you choose to reject Jesus' teaching?" I reject your wresting of Jesus' teaching.
Hello livealive, Eugene here. For many years I ignored Jesus' teaching about who God is and I tried as best I could to defend the trinity doctrine, thinking that Jesus taught it although I was never able to find such a teaching in the things he is recorded to have said. Now I try and teach what he taught. Do you know what "progressive revelation" is? Do you accept that idea?
Thanks for your comments and your Christian service.
+Eugene Lanzl As Paul teaches the Philippians, the Lord Jesus, being in the form of God, made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death. This is a simple and plainly written teaching, that if you would follow both the wording and the progression you would have your confusion removed.
the text does not state that one was left behind.
+dunklaw Correct!!! The reader must read that in. The text says the men left. The men left. if the men left then they were not there. Two of them arrived in Sodom. The text simply does not say where the man who did not arrive in Sodom went, just as it does not say where the two went.
1 John 5:7 this is God....the Word is God not Jesus. Jesus tells us in John 13: 16 and John 12:49. To believe Jesus is God is silly and why? He tells us over and over he is sent by the Father, he prays over and over to the Father and not only does Jesus tell us he isn't God but so does Paul and all the others Acts 10:38. Amen
Respectfully please, I am not a Trinitarian, I was always taught it was angels representing Yahweh. Having said that, it isn’t basic reading comprehension, it is a perfect example of the confusion created because basic ideas are clouded in words NOT anyone can just read and understand . Why does it not just say it! Then dumbies like me could read and understand without question. Seriously. Once faith in a person or persons interpreting scripture is gone you are left to try and figure it out on your own. With so many lives at stake I don’t get it.
B D: God has left extremely comprehensive instructions. Seek Him with a contrite heart. Be like a faithful 'wife' by committing yourself for life to the worship and love of the one true living God. This is the only way spiritual things can begin to make sense. It's how you can have the spirit of God like living water flow into you ( and out again in the form of the fruit of the spirit)
Our spirits are blind, deaf and recklessly galloping to the cliff edge of destruction. We continually snatch the reins away from going the right way and ignore the guiding hand who can save us from our own wilful path.
It's only when we halt our headlong headstrong ways and pause to seek another safe path do we begin to see the path we were bolting down. God will not let you down if you are willing to be His. He will not take the reins to turn you until you are willing to allow Him to guide you.
Once you are willing and seeking, He can begin to guide and instruct you. You become more and more sensitive to the new spirit dwelling in you. Your old wilful spirit comes under subjection to a pure spirit that comes to master your own. This is how we can have the mind of Christ. He was obedient, compliant and humble.
We can follow him if we are willing to give up the world to follow him. Our world. Anything that stands between us having a healthy growing loving relationship. Spiritual things begin to make sense. Truth starts to shine like a beacon in the dark. Your eyes open and your ears hear.
Stunningly you can love the God of the OT that you used to run away from. It becomes no burden to keep His commandments because His spirit is flowing into and out in the form of love, joy, peace etc.. You just have to trust the sure hand that guides you. The fruit of the spirit allows you the knowledge you are being guided on the narrow way, keep on the path, remain committed, faithfully trusting the hand on the reins, stay connected and growing in knowledge of His word, your instructions come just as you are ready to follow them.
I have found trust is the key issue. Read His good promises and know hHe will not let you go once you determine wholly to be His obedient child. If you are a parent you will have experienced the purity in the faith of your child who implicitly trust and believes in your word. Be that child and everything will begin to make perfect sane and orderly sense. This is how we are drawn to love Him fully when the glorious light of truth begins to open the way. It's worth everything you think you are giving up. The things of this world do grow dim and it gets so much easier when you have the perfect example to guide you. The work is done in us, we just have to be willing and trusting enough to allow the spirit that is pure to do it in us.
I always believed that Almighty God does things by sending his spirit or angels to do his will and never leaves or need to get off his throne to do nothing , thus that is what Almighty God really means!
But God came down and died on the cross while at the same time was still in Heaven. That’s how much God loves us
@@processofelimination9700 never God Almighty created the man Jesus the messiah to do that! Jesus is alway a man!
@@chabirajpersaud9647 Jesus is God in the flesh that's what the Bible says
God Almighty did not died on the cross who would have raised him up! You people are in your right mind?
@@chabirajpersaud9647 John 1:1
16:10 - haha, excellent!
What about right below where it says out of the 3 the lord was still standing before Abraham
Thank you so much for open my eyes be bless
Excuse me, but where from do you get that these are angels? Basic reading comprehension shouldn't add words not found in the text. Angels NEVER not once appears in these chapters, not even in chapter 22.
World you care to explain that?
The word used every and each time is Ish and not Malaj.
This is one of Sam Shamoun’s main go to texts to prove Jesus’ pre-existence and how he is titled as Lord. He makes this argument mainly with Muslims, but others as well.
GOD is not made anything by anyone
Jesus was made Lord by His Father
Stop deceiving people. You will be held accountable for their destinies. You are not getting revelations from God. I pray that God opens your eyes.
To what the trinity?
The trinity is not from God, but the devil - there is nothing good, let alone holy about the trinity.
It is the antichrist, as we need to get as far away from such teachings as possible.
"Yahweh goes to Sodom = the two men go to Sodom"
"Yahweh goes to Sodom = two ANGELS who go to Sodom"
Correct, except for the name(YHVH)
"Yahweh remains with Abraham = one of the men remaining"
"Yahweh remains with Abraham = one of the ANGELS remaining"
Incorrect
Think about what YOU are saying for a moment. You're saying that one of these three 'men' is the Father manifested in the flesh and stayed with Abraham while the other two went to Sodom. This brings up a variety of contradictions. God is not a man, no one has seen God at any time, no one can look at the Father's face and live. However you are saying that all of these testimonies are not so by insisting that this man was God manifested in the flesh. Don't worry though, I accepted it this way also for many moons until I learned that there is another way. It all has to do with the count. How many entities were there that day? Let us back all the way up to verses one and two:
"And YHVH appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,"
Genesis 18:1,2
Now let's read this very slowly and very thoroughly and count how many persons are described here. 'YHVH appeared unto him'. First off, this is a continuing story from chapter seventeen where Abraham and his house had just been circumcised so the pronoun 'him' here in verse one is in regard to Abraham. Continuing, 'YHVH appeared to him(Abraham). That is two persons or entities so far, YHVH and Abraham. Now verse two. 'and he lift up his eyes'. Who is this? This is Abraham, after seeing YHVH Shekinah(may also be described as His manifestation, Glory, or Spirit. The Shekinah is a shroud for His manifestation. This is how the Father appeared to the patriarchs, also to Moses. Likewise as a pillar of cloud or pillar of fire. This is also how He appeared in the tabernacle, His glory which covered the mercy seat). So, 'And he(Abraham) lift up his eyes(after bowing to God's presence), and, lo, three men stood by him(?). This is the key pronoun in this entire passage, the identity of this 'him'. IF you say that this 'him' is referring to Abraham then he has no need to run out to meet them as they are already standing by him. If you correctly deduce that this pronoun 'him' is referring to God's presence, His Shekinah, then when Abraham looks up after bowing to God's presence he then sees these three men standing next to the Fathers' presence, making it thus:
""And YHVH appeared unto him(Abraham) in the plains of Mamre: and he(Abraham) sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
And he(Abraham) lift up his(Abraham) eyes and looked, and, lo, three men(angels) stood by him(YHVH): and when he(Abraham) saw them(YHVH AND the three men), he(Abraham) ran to meet them(YHVH AND the three men) from the tent door, and bowed himself(Abraham) toward the ground,"
Genesis 18:1,2
Now as to the 'men' or angels. It is the sages understanding that an angel is sent for one task. Angels do not multitask.
1) Angel #1 = The promise to Sarah of a son
2) Angel # 2 = to save Lot and his family
3) Angel # 3 = the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
When angel #1 completed his task of the giving of the promise to Sarah, his job was done and he promptly left. This leaves YHVH and angel #2 and angel #3 left. The two angels head off to Sodom to verify the situation and carry out their tasks while Abraham and YHVH tarry and have their conversation. Hold on, I know what you are saying already. But but but it says 'we' are come to destroy the city. While it is true that there are many plural pronouns in chapter eighteen, the key lies in verse seventeen:
"And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed."
Genesis 18:17
Not 'they' said but 'he' said, the angel tasked with saving Lot and his family.
+Yehoshuarose " You're saying that one of these three 'men' is the Father manifested in the flesh and stayed with Abraham while the other two went to Sodom. " No, that's not what I am saying. The Father was in heaven. This was three angels. You should probably watch the video again.
+The Trinity Delusion
Mhh, Ok, I must've misunderstood your contention that this third angel was an agent of YHVH. Still my point stands, YHVH 'appeared' to Abraham. The grammar and context of verses one and two show that there are five 'persons' present.
@Reasonable Man you are. Good, glad you noticed. Trinity no, one God and Father yes.
@@TheTrinityDelusion
That's not true
God is one of those men
He told abraham that next year he will return and give Sara a son
And he will go down to soodom
Yehoshuarose i believe it was Yahshua Hamashiach who saw abraham since he is Yahweh. When Yahshua confronted the pharisees he said before abraham was, "I am" and he said that he visited Abraham during that time.
It goes on, the scripture goes on, Whom He has appointed Heir of all things, through Whom also He made the worlds
@ Jon Paul Leigh. Heb1:2 is so straight forward it makes fools out of any who think this is genesis creation.
simply take a concordance, look up that word "worlds" and see what it says.
It is a Greek word which primary meaning is time periods. Eons in english.
In the niv it is "universe" in place of worlds. That is derived by modern evolutionary theory because it is assumed a lot of time is involved in making the universe. So its only logical to a non creation trinitarian christian.
Now take the primary meaning from your concordance, which is age or ages.
Now put it in context with the book of Heb. Heb is about addressing those who were turning away to christianity back to their old past beliefs, jews.
The very verse before, v1, says "in times in past God spoke through prophets and various ways, but NOW IN THESE LAST DAYS He speaks though a son."
See, its about old ages verses now times.
Its about a change in the times in Gods plans.!!!!!!!
Surely this is logical?
Scripture was written in Greek here, but translators have written down what THEY think it should say.
So Heb1:2, does NOT say anything about creation of planets and cosmos! Its about creating the things associated with the NEW CREATION, things of the church. The new man. The new creation. Its all about Pauls NOW, not the old past ways of Israel. Eons, times, ages.
Thanks for listening, just another trinity myth and solved by simple reading comprehension. I was stuck there for over 30 years, a strongs concordance solved it in 10 minutes once someone pointed it out as the enemy clouds these things to us, may the scales fall from your eyes bro.
@@ken440 I dont even have a problem w/ that, as even this comment was 8 months ago, but it by no means takes deity away from Christ. If the better translation is Ages then why is it plural? I personally see Eschatology w/ a partial preterist view, hence the old order done away in 70 A.D & a New Age brought in by the New Covenant by the blood of Christ. Im assuming your Unitarian which means you either dont see Christ in Old Test or interpret different, but just the language thats only used for God, such as He rides on the clouds, He rides a swift cloud etc, Jesus uses in New Test, primarily Olivet Discourse & Rev, but also OT Daniel 7 the Son of Man comes up to the Ancient of Days on a cloud. Not to mention the Son, which is in the Heb 1 text also but also psalms such as 110. We even have Christ doing only what God can & did do in Old Test in New Test such as forgive sin, heal & command the weather. Even the Angel of the Lord is revealed as Christ in Isaiah as the Redeemer. 1 Cor 10:4 they all drank from the Spiritual Rock, that Spiritual Rock that followed them was Christ. We both know this is only touching on it. You shouldnt say may the scales fall from my eyes when I think its beyond clear that Christ is God incarnate as the New Test clearly shows. This was believed & taught w/ early church fathers all through Christianity. If Christ is a mere man & we are to worship Him & God that would be worshipping 2, & only a God Man could be an eternal sin sacrifice for all sin for all time. We can go back & forth w/ scripture after scripture but if your set that Jesus is a created man to worship then lets not bother. Peace & grace to you
@@J-PLeigh8409 agree regards lets not bother.
I will answer just your question re plural in heb1:2. Because as the head of the body Jesus has been placed in the same figurative position as Joseph was in Egypt, likke a prime minister, so Jesus is calling the shots in this age since he was raised, and in the age to come, the 1000yr as king of kings, so thats two sep ages at least.
Blessings.
@@ken440 I appreciate the reply & your attempt to answer but of course this can be disputed as I see Him as the eternal King of Kings & Lord of Lords the Alpha & the Omega. Also that the 1000 yrs is symbolic like it is all through scripture. If we are to translate world(s) to ages, as I've seen both, depending on the context in Hebrew & Greek whether Universe, Cosmos, Ages, Aion, Olam, as its used differently than our English & deserving a deeper study. But of course being plural, the worlds to ages, its every age, from past to even the ages to come. Besides this Hebrews text, Col ch1 explains it in greater detail
@@J-PLeigh8409 well i knew you would say that, lol. Col, if you read the intro pages you see Paul is addressing the folk there who are losing sight of Jesus as the head of the body, and beginning worship angels. Paul has these angels ( more correctly sons of God, Authorities in spiritual, good ones here) and points out their positions of authority were appointed or created by Jesus Christ, as head of church and Lord now, having been made Lord as we see Peter explain in Acts2:36. Again this is not Genesis creation here, Paul is addressing the Ekklasia about Ekklasia issues.
And b4 u mention it, phil2:6 is about obedience over self will, as in "who did grasp at equality with God", but Adam. "Adam was not deceived."(no the naughty boy intentionally chose self promotion). So Jesus, the second Adam, is shown not grasping but obediently following his Fathers plan, to the cross.
If you go to jn1:1-n then you must bring Prov8 with it.
It just occurred to me....when the speaker bowed down to the angel in God's court (Revelation) wasn't God was right there sitting on his throne? When Abraham bowed down to the angel, God was in heaven and acting through an agent, so Abraham was bowing to God through the angel.
+Let Us Gather... The only thing about the account in revelation is that it was Jesus' angel, not God's angel. So when John bowed low to the angel in revelation (in effect bowing to Jesus maybe? To bow before a person's representative is as if to bow before the actual person?), he is rebuked and told to only worship God. Whereas when Abraham bows low to Yahweh's angels, there is no rebuking noted. Interested for thoughts on this.
+Lee Read Revelation 1:1 and ask this question: How is this revelation going to be communicated to John? Now look down a few verses and see who is communicating with John: It is Jesus himself. Now read this carefully: "I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of THE ANGEL who showed me these things. 9 But HE SAID to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And HE SAID to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and MY reward is with ME, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Revelation 22.
+The Trinity Delusion
This revelation 22 passage is a favourite of trinitarians (the alpha and omega routine i particular) but in actual fact it is completely the opposite and should be used to disprove Jesus is God!!
Thanks for the video and keep 'em coming!
The Trinity Delusion ] I don,t mean to sound like a broken record. But I say this often, [ The stupidity of man never ceases to amaze me ] people can see the word, read the word & even hear the word of GOD and still say that it,s wrong. Great job as always my friend. They just never caught the part when Abraham bowed to The True Living GOD. People always want to see things their way!!! GLU All the glory to the most high GOD in JESUS* the CHRIST name. [ AMEN ] [ B.PROCTOR ]
I firmly believe that one of the three was none other than our God. Whenever mention is made of that third person the name is "the LORD".
You can also firmly believe that you are a garden variety vegetable. It won't have anything to do with the truth.
If you believe that angels (who are sons of God) can be identified as YHWH God, then why do you spend your time refusing to identify the Son of God as YHWH God?
So you expose your theology as self-refuting. It is a lie.
God can turn you into a banana. Since He can, shall we therefore conclude that He did? According to your "reasoning" He did, and God is, and God does, whatever you desire. For some reason, you don't seem to comprehend what might be wrong with that approach. Go and read John 13:20 and see what you can learn from it.
In the New Testament, after Jesus had been arrested, he was taken to Annas, the father-in-law of Ciaphis (sp?) the high priest. But, when a guard thought you Jesus had spoken impertinently to Annas, he struck Jesus inn the face and said, “Is that how you speak to the high priest?” Then the passage tells us that when Annas was done with him, they took Jesus to the high priest. Clearly the angels were representatives of YHWH just as Annnas was a representative of the high priest.
Good catch
Imagine a mere man striking the very son of God through the face as you stand in judgment of Him who was perfect in all His ways in this fallen world. My very innermost being shudders at the mere thought of this. And yet Jesus in his awesome mercy and grace probably forgave that man. I can only be thankful to the mercy of my Father in heaven for His mercy and superior understanding and mercy in sending His Beautiful son Jesus to show us the way to the Father and back home. Unfortunately we cannot see God almighty but we can see His son who is the Image of the father so whether they are one in thr or three or five in one does not concern me. My sole duty as a fallen earthling is to keep my eyes on Jesus who is the way the truth and the Life. When and if I get to heaven these other things will surly become apparent but that is then and my current situation is now. What's the point of knowing whether god is three person's in one body if by my actions I am lost and destined for destruction. I do however not agree with the trinity concept simply because of the words of Jesus in the new testament. Christianity is full of man worship and paganism in my humble opinion.
So God spoke with Adam in the cool of the day and was able to because Adam was perfect before the fall. After Abraham was circumcised he was deemed perfect, and God could dwell with him. When God says, "Let us make man" in the beginning, and when He visits Abraham, He says, "Should I tell Abraham what will come to Sodom...?" Who is the world is God talking to if he isn't three persons.
My friend why do you use the false name yahweh? The Tetragrammaton contains four consonants and three vowels therefore three syllables! I agree that the trinity is a false doctrine..
LoL
My friend, Jesus is not Jesus real name either. That doesn’t stop us from using it. That goes for many other English biblical names
Yahuah?
There's one problem in your first part of your argument. It's one word that contradicts your entire statement. Christophany. Like with Daniel and his friends being thrown into the furnace. Different parts of God have diferent qualities to my understanding. Father Son Holy Spirit
He said, “Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!.....Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, who has sent His angel and delivered His servants..."
The tiqqune sopherim are only seen as textual variants by scholars like Emanuel Tov. The variant to which you refer is negated in the following chapter where it states that Abraham returns to stand before YHWH, not the other way around. A survey of textual evidence generally shows that the subordinate stands before the superior so it is as much about rank as anything physical.
Who is the angel of the covenant?
What verse are you referring to?
The Trinity Delusion
None specific
Then where does the idea come from?
And where did you get this notion?
uh huh. Where did you come up with this idea?
Jesus is lord.
Please read the scripture for yourself and stop listsning to these people. Jesus did appear to Abraham with the angels. Why did He called him Lord.?
You say to read the scripture and yet prove to have not read the scriptures yourself. ie, nowhere does it say that Jesus appeared before Abraham, you yourself claim this as though it was written. Similarly, you ask why Abraham called the man Lord, and yet seem oblivious that Lot called the two angels who visited him Lord also.
And so as you can see, this is nothing more than a case of the blind leading the blind. As you yourself are clearly not aware of what it is the Bible actually teaches.
JohnBee God could appear to anyone at any time.
RE: "Jesus did appear to Abraham with the angels."
A. Remains unfounded...
The One who was in middle was God Himself and those were two angels read the whole chapter and the next one
Nat David true God and two angels
Thank you!
I did not listen long. But Melchizedek was the person sometimes referred to as Lord. He is described as
Hebrews 7: 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
This does not mean that Abraham was not also visited by the Spirit.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Bingo
The son is the word, the word is God. The son is the Spirit. Before his ascension he said: I will be with you every day until the end. Now, you can't say that the Holy Spirit who is with us now is different than Jesus Christ, there are the same beings. If not, you ban from the Bible Mat28v20. Another Comforter is not a different being. It's the same Comforter in another form, from a human form to a Spirit form.
"Abraham standing before the lord" is correct as evidenced in Gen 19:27. No contradiction for this verse in DSS - dssenglishbible.com/genesis%2019.htm
Don't miss the concept in chapter 18. "standing before" is not literal, as it is used throughout the OT to denote the subordinate in front of the judge in a legal case.
Can anyone tell me who rose Jesus from death please?
God.
Jesus himself says it and it's written several times in other places in the New Testament eg. Acts 3:15 & 13:30, Galatians 1:1, 1 Peter 1:21 etc etc....
3 men are divine and jesus is there. ✝️✝️✝️🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
BROTHER CAN YOU MAKE VIDEO ABOUT ''NAME OF FATHER ,SON and HOLY SPIRIT Matthew28;19
here is a video on the matter ruclips.net/video/h8rcOh4cbAg/видео.html
If you doubt the trinity you are putting limitations on God and his power... don't lean unto your own understanding. Once you start to put God in a human box you will start to doubt everything
Abraham was visited by the father,the son and the holy spirit, and Jesus is God and he is the one who created everything. Period!
Facts are irrelevant to you eh?
They are thinking that cos Jesus said before Abraham was i was!
He was.
Who did Jacob wrestle? Just curious.
Hosea 12:4
An angel, that he associated with God
He wrestled with God Hosea 12:4 note he spake with us. But Jacob was by himself just him and God but he spake with us. Genesis 1:26 let us make man in our image. It's the Godhead
Body(Jesus)
Soul (Father)
Spirit( Holy Spirit)
@The Trinity Delusion
From your claims at clip 23:44 (Gen 19:14,24) that messengers represented their master, you therefore strongly support the fact that Jesus represented the Father that is to be called "Father", "God" or "LORD"
So, with your strong support, does it disagree with what Jesus said in the Gospels?
Jesus said he came in the name of his Father. God sent the man Jesus to represent him.
@@TheTrinityDelusion Jesus wasn’t just a man
Where did the third man go when he left Abraham... he probably went down to Sodom as he said earlier...? You are just avoiding the fact that the third man is JHWH and it is not the Father...and not the Spirit either... and also that 2 angels are just angels doing God's will (they are not called JHWH anywhere as oposed to the one that stays with A. who is explicitly called as haShem)... you have some problems with comprehension too ... for starters read through the WHOLE verse of Heb1,2 and you will see that not only was Jesus appearing to Abraham and Moses and Manoah but was the force of creation on top of everything. May Jehowah bless you and keep you.
Very good
Excellent!
This is nothing but lies. His entire argument is based on the CLAIM that Yahuwah did not go down after he said he would but ONLY the angel went. He uses this to say that the two angels where Yahuwah, which the bible does not. He also uses it to claim that the man that talks with abraham is NOT Yahuwah even though the Moses the Jew refers to the one speaking to Abraham as Yahuwah. This man totally turns the scriptures inside out and upside down and then turns around to mock us for eisegesis. This is priceless. There is a verse in that context that he did not read that disproves his entire foundation and that is Gen 18v33, which states that Yahuwah WENT his way. So Yahuwah did leave and we know his intended destination which he stated in Gen 18v20-21. This is ridiculous but also revealing. What is revealed is this, the unsaved who hate the triune God will change the scripture as an expression of that hatred.
Of course the angels said that they about to destroy the city. The "we" refers to their side, their collective, heaven. If i work for a company, is it wrong to say that we dont accept credit card if my boss on his own decided not to accept credit cards. Does this mean that i get to call myself by my boss' name? This makes no sense. Remember that this man skipped the verse that states that Yahuwah went to Sodom. He skipped it.
These are the changes this enemy of Christ has made to the bible:
1) The one called Yahuwah by the Jew Moses this man says is not Yahuwah.
2) Those who are never called Yahuwah in the text are given that title by this enemy of Christ.
3) The text says that Yahuwah went to Sodom this man denies it.
4) This man ignores the fact that Yahuwah spoke in the third person AND in the first person when talking about Yahuwah. Which clearly indicates two Yahuwah's in verse 21 of chapter 18. The Yahuwah on earth is the third man according to 18v20 the Yahuwah in heaven is another Yahuwah.
No it is not that simple. If representation is enough to have one called Yahuwah then please provide a verse where these two angels are called Yahuwah. Also show us where in the bible the following representatives of Yahuwah are called Yahuwah:
1) Moses
2) Abraham
3) Jacob
4) Isaac
5) Joshua
6) Caleb
7) Samson
8) David
9) Nathan
10) Solomon
11) Isaiah
12) Ezekiel
13) Hosea
14) Daniel
Judaism before Jesus were Binetarians (two persons as God /two powers in heaven). Judaism after Jesus turn out non-binetarian in response to Christianity by departing from Judaism before Jesus. Who is right, modern Judaism after Jesus or Judaism before Jesus?
You need to repeat yourself less. It's like a broken record. I understood the point about the two men the first time but you said it at least three or four times over.
Also it would be great if you could go into more detail on why you think the hebrew makes it more clear.
doltBmB Unfortunately with trinitarians you have to repeat yourself and still to no avail 🤷🏽♂️
I saw it in an old movie. I have forgotten the name of the movie, they play it every year, around Easter; on some of the channels that play old movies. Anyway, Thanks for sharing.
Both Abraham and Lot bow before these men, but that doesn't mean that any of them were God or Jesus. In the video Trinity Delusion mentions that there are numerous occasions in the Bible where men bow down before other men.
In Gen 18 Abraham bows down before three men, who evidently look like ordinary men, and he unlikely knew they were angels at this point. He addresses one of the three men as 'my Lord' possibly because he appeared more important than the other two, by the way he was dressed. Abraham would then assume that the other two men were servants of the first man.
It was normal for wealthy men to have servants, and for them to travel with them. It was normal in those days to bow before someone out of respect and especially if they looked or were more important than yourself. It was also usual for certain men to be called Lord by other men. Abraham himself was called 'my Lord' by his neighbours (Gen 23:6).
In Gen 19 when the angels come to Sodom, Lot greets them as Abraham did, by bowing down before them. It's unlikely that he would have known they were angels, only realising later as events unfolded. He also calls them 'my Lords', at least out of respect, and possibly because they looked like wealthy or important men.
Heb 13:2 says 'Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.' This is likely referring to these situations where Abraham and Lot were practicing good hospitality toward strangers, only later on finding out who they really were.
So bowing before other men is no big deal in the Old Testament, and doesn't mean that Abraham and Lot were doing something that must only be done before God.
Brother Kel what about Moses on the mountain with the burning bush and God spoke? and said I've come down to free my people from Egypt did he or did he send somebody else?
The one thing that was strange that hit me was that God has sons and daughters and Jesus had brothers and sisters that seems like a big issue to me. Justsaying
Isn't Gedeon said I have seen God?
God the father or God the son and God the Holy Spirit, but what I know God the son visited Abraham through his three angels and he talked through one of his angels with three angels.
Does anyone know the name of the 3 angels that went to S&G?
Michael , Gabriel and Raphael
Uriel and michael and Jesus
Depends what you mean by "angel".
Praise the Lord.amen
Three men appeared to Abraham, Genesis 18:2. Two of the men are called angels/messengers in Genesis 19:1. The other man was the LORD who stayed behind to talk with Abraham. This man is never called an angel/messenger in Genesis 18-19. There is no hint in Genesis 18-19 that this man was an angel/messenger. The unitarian assumes that because two of the men are angels/messengers, the other man is an angel/messenger. Even though this is never said. Genesis 18-19 reads as if the LORD appeared to Abraham as a man with two angels/messengers also appearing as men.
An important verse in understanding what is going on is Genesis 18:33, "When the LORD had finished talking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home". The LORD who was finished speaking with Abraham left him. We know where he was going because he already said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me", Genesis 18:20-21. After the LORD left Abraham, he went to Sodom and Gomorrah to destroy it. The LORD saw how they treated his angels/messengers, and was ready to destroy it after Lot and his family were safe. This is the LORD who rained fire from the LORD in Genesis 19:24. And in the morning, Abraham returned to the place where he stood before the LORD to see the destruction that the LORD whom he spoke with had caused, Genesis 19:27-28.
There are two options for the role of the angels/messengers in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19. Either they were not involved, or they were involved. Both of these options are compatible with how Trinitarians read the text.
The first option. The two angels/messengers were able to speak as if they were going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because they were part of LORD's divine council. The LORD includes his council in his decisions. Some look at Genesis 11:7 as an example of this where God said to his divine council, "Let us go down and confuse their language", but then only God is said to have confused the language in Genesis 11:9. Some would also point to Genesis 1:26 and say that only God does the creating even though he involves his divine council in his decisions. A similar thing could be going on in Genesis 19 where the two angels/messengers who were part of the divine council spoke as if they were going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah but in fact the LORD who came from speaking with Abraham was bringing about the destruction.
The other option involves the angels/messengers in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. To support this, one could look at other instances of destruction in the bible to make sense of this. In Exodus 12:23, we learn that when the LORD killed the firstborns in Egypt, the destroyer was killing on behalf of the LORD. The destroyer is the angel of the LORD who also worked destruction in 2 Samuel 24:16. But we learn from Psalm 78:49 that God unleashed a band of destroying angels/messengers. We also learn that the angel of the LORD is the commander of the LORD's army in Joshua 5:13-14 because the phrase "a sword drawn in his hand" is only used three times in the Old Testament, two of them for the angel of the LORD and the other here in Joshua 5:13 for the commander of the LORD's army, Numbers 22:23, 1 Chronicles 21:16, Joshua 5:13. Interestingly, 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21 are parallel accounts of the same event where the angel of the LORD is involved. Putting this all together, the LORD sent the destroyer who is the angel of the LORD to kill the Egyptian firstborns. The angel of the LORD who is also the commander of the LORD's army took a band of destroying angels with him and together killed the Egyptian firstborns. Perhaps something like this occurred in Genesis 19. The LORD who was on the earth took two angels/messengers with him and together they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by raining fire from the LORD who was in heaven.
To summarise, the man who spoke with Abraham was the LORD and there is no indication in Genesis 18-19 that this was an angel/messenger. The clear reading is that the LORD appeared to Abraham with two messengers/angels. Genesis 18:33 proves that the LORD who spoke with Abraham was involved in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. And one can argue either way whether the two messengers/angels who came with the LORD were involved in the destruction or not.
@@DasWortwurdeFleisch The LORD and two messengers/angels appeared to Abraham as men. There is no problem here unless you think that the LORD is so limited that he can't appear as a man.
@@AndreBentrup Then the LORD and two angels/messengers appeared as mortals. Still not an issue.
If this meagre objection indicates the quality of other objections against the clear interpretation of Genesis 18-19, then Trinitarians can rest easy.
@@AaronOfJerusalemAndAthens
Since no one has ever seen God (John's words, not mine), Abraham did not literally or physically see God. He saw three men who represented God. That's why it says that "Jehovah appeared to Abraham", and then Abraham looked up and saw.... three men. God is not a man (Num. 23:19; Hosea 11:9).
Since all three men represented Jehovah, it could be said that Jehovah went down to Sodom *and* remained with Abraham (Genesis 18:20, 21; 19:1), since two of the men went down to Sodom and one of the men remained with Abraham. Likewise, it could be said that Jehovah rained down fire from Jehovah out of heaven, since the men who represented Jehovah on earth rained down fire from Him.
@@Bowen12676 When I originally wrote that comment I would have said that surely God appeared with two angels. More specifically, I would have said that the Son appeared with two angels.
You must be referring to verses like John 1:18 and 1 John 4:12 when you say that no one has ever seen God. If you look at the rest of John 1:18 you will see why it does not refute this interpretation and why some strong supporters of this interpretation use this verse to support it. John 1:18 seems to rule out the possibility that the Father appeared to Abraham because "no one has ever seen God". Instead they would say that "the only God who is at the Father's side" has made the Father known (John 1:18) because whoever has seen the Son has seen the Father (John 14:9). This could then be used to say that the Son of God made the Father known by appearing and speaking to Abraham.
I have become more open as to whether that kind of interpretation is true or false but not for the reason you just gave.
Help! Do you know Jesus before Abraham . this come up and yes Jesus was in God plan be for all things came.
Makes sense to me ;)
Whenever you see LORD in the OT, LORD is pluralistic of 2 or more ... Let "us" make man in our image; angels cannot create only God can, us is 2 or more ..... When Christ was baptized, it says: This is my beloved son and then it says that the Spirit descend in bodily form upon Christ; here you have Father speaking and Son being baptized and the Spirit of God resting upon Him, 2 or more ..... Jesus on the cross speaking to His Father .... Paul writings in Epistles declaring Father/Son&Spirit .... Jesus said no man can come to Him unless the Father reveals who Jesus is .... Many many more places in the bible declaring trinity: 1John 5:7-8; Gen 1:1-2; John 14:16-17; 1Peter 1:1-2; 2Cor 1:21-22 ....
Verse 21 says this deity is not all knowing, and therefore cannot be Jesus nor the Father.
They are the Lord!
No. Yahweh did not go down to Sodom aat that very moment, He stood a while with Abraham and they spoke.
simple is that who rose Jesus from dead? answer this question first and done , i know who is God period
The Three Men were The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Moses and Elijah ( who are the 2 witnesses of our LORD YAHWEH on every judgment of the LORD ) You can also reffere/call them the two Generals of the LORD
You will See THEY are also promised by GOD in the book of Malachi 4:4-6 ( where they will come again as generals in the end time), also in Revelation 11 ( they will be the beholders of the wrath of GOD in the End time and here they are referred to as the 2 witnesses of the LORD ) and also in Revelation 14:6-7 ( they are referred to as THE ANGLE of THE LORD)
Hi, I don't know your name, but thank you for exposing Falls Trinity believing trapped, just like you spend a little bit time find out the false Trinity exposure, then if you go a little bit deeper into the Bible then you will find out that actually Jesus did not died for your sins either, and nor he was the son of God
you read the Bible so deeply to conclude that? please provide scriptures that support that?
So if you don't believe in the Trinity. How is God, the Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit all God.
+Cory Abouaf The Son is not God. Rather, the son is God's son.
+The Trinity Delusion This doesn't line up with scripture according to my Hebrew Bible. How is He different than me, if I am also God's son?
+The Trinity Delusion yes I have been predestined as says Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. and Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will as far as a king, you got me there. So what do you do with the tens of scriptures that describe the Deity of Messiah? Like Is 43:10 etc... You sound similar to JWs.
Are you the Lamb who had been slain from the foundation of the world? Is that how you were conformed to the image of God's son too?
+The Trinity Delusion LOL! No! but I was predestined to be a son not to be a lamb. LOL! I am being conformed daily. NOt easy. I blow it all the time. But one day, I'll be without spot or wrinkle. Anyways, I just don't see how you get rid of the Deity of Christ. I should have more problem with that than you since I am a Jew. That was a big struggle at the beginning but the more I studied the hebrew, the more I realize that God took on a new nature a new name, namely the nature of man. We get the divine nature and inherit that. He inherited human nature. This way unity with God is perfected just like in marriage where we literally become one, in as much as possible, in all things.
What about people that believe that one of the visitors was the Father Yahweh in a theophany? Same thing with Jacob wrestling god he is also called a man and an angel but why cannot the father take the form?
Interpretation by imagination? What about the passage that says Jacob wrestled an angel?
@@TheTrinityDelusion I'm just not opposed to the father taking on a human form or the form of an Angel if he chooses to. I already know it's not Jesus or a pre-existing Messiah. But why can it not be God himself taking on a form? Especially Genesis 18:22 distinguishing the two angels from one of them who is called YHWH.
@@mr.e1220 Read more carefully.
YAHWEH said he would go down to Sodom (18:20). So how did that happen?
"Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom." 18:22
The angels told Lot they were sent to destroy the city (19:13). How did Lot understand this?
" Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, “Up, get out of this place, for YAHWEH will destroy the city.” 19:14
The angels were sent to destroy Sodom.
"Then YAHWEH rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YAHWEH out of heaven." 19:24