One of the scariest things about Psychopaths is that, contrary to common belief, they are entirely sane; they have full knowledge that they are hurting people and they do so with intent. They simply have no sentiment or empathy.
If that is the case then that makes Sudor an even more interesting character. Not that his actions should be condoned of course but he is a very compelling character played masterfully by Brad Douriff.
False; psychopathy is considered to be a neurological disorder...on a spectrum like narcissism. That's not sane; maybe not insane. But definitely not psychologically healthy or normal
Totally agreed over the archetype characters, I think the big problem was that Jerry Taylor & Michael Pillar were told by Rick Berman to tone down the emotion in Voyager between Characters, A.K.A. Trying to make the voyager crew more Utopian, even more than Gene Roddenberry would have liked. As a result most of the characters ended up as walking automatons.
you know i could see confused matthew saying season 2 of picard makes voyager and enterprise and ds9 season combined all look good. but then so far i could also see him saying season 3 of picard is the last jedi of star trek.(that is the highest praise i think confused matthew could give to something) like i would love to see confused matthew review many things today. there is still so much for him to review.
I always wondered why they had Voyager stuck in the delta quadrant. It meant that the show couldn't interact with all the places and characters of the ST universe without absurd plot devices.
Because it creates a lot of opportunities. Unfortunately they were never really explored. At the end of nearly every episode was the Magic Reset Button that fixed every damage to the ship refilled every missing resource and nearly always moved the ship to another region of space.
I think it's a good premise, Voyager just wasted it. It would make resource management and repairs real problems, except infinite shuttle glitches and space dock quality reset buttons. It would lead to tensions, people seperated from loved ones, stuck in close quarters with past combatants, except everyone's fine in like a couple weeks. Without federation backing it might be hard to live up to utopian ideas as an underdog with no umph to back you up. Except it rarely comes up isn't acknowledged past the ep it comes up in. And the Vidians were the only really cool new species concept they had reoccurring, but they somehow thought the Kazon were more interesting. Voyager isn't my least favorite trek, but it is the one with the biggest gap between how much I like the concept, vs how much I like the execution.
It isn't an "awful" TV show, it just wasn't as good as the shows prior to it. AmazingAtheist, summed it perfectly, it is a "good" show, but not a "great" show and for many, good just isn't good enough for Star Trek.
I really don't get your walking stereotypes. I think the show went bad when it laser-focused on Seven Of Nines character or her tits to be more accurate. When it was more focused on the Captain, Tuvak and The Doctor I thought it was good as they were the best characters. Enjoying your vitriol though lol I've always tried to understand why people hate this show so much.
I know I have commented a lot here but Star Trek has so much to unpack as I have watched more. Betazoids in Trek fascinate me because they are complicated people. Tin Man from TNG and The Forsaken from DS9 and Meld here are examples of this.
I never hated this show, but of all the Prime Timeline Star Trek TV shows. If it wasn't for Enterprise then Voyager would be easily be the worst show in this part of the franchise.
No show is ment to be, or can withstand being ripped apart like this. They should be watched, and enjoyed in the moment for what they are, and not compared to anything. you should not be thinking about, or double checking what the writers were thinking while you are watching. this is sci fi fantasy. Granted, this star trek is different than others, partly because of the premise, but it is a Worthy star trek series that does not suck. As for the worst star trek, see enterprise.
Even though Confused Matthew has retired since around 2015, he has motioned back in 09 that Enterprise being much more insufferable then Voyager. To quote him "Its not the worst Star Trek I have seen in my life, its not the worst Star Trek that has ever been made. Its dead to me."
No offense, but that’s a straw man argument if I’ve ever heard one. People who criticize new Trek are not doing so because “you can’t criticize classic Star Trek.” There’s plenty of classic Trek that isn’t good (TNG Season 1, most of Voyager, most of Enterprise), and people are willing to go after it as bad television. If anything, one of the problems with new Trek is identical to one of the problems Voyager had; they can’t develop characters to save their lives.
Honestly I never really liked Star Trek that mutch the science and the aliens and the world building are cool but there just so stuck up and full of them selfs there so concerned they just go around juging people from there dance space ships were they can have any think they want handed to them and a lot of times there dumb and hypocritical witch they justifiy with philosophic bable. The ownly ones I actually like was deep space 9 because they actually had to live with and interact with people and the caption actually ends up getting called for be a condescending speasist and lurned from it actual character growth. And the federal was show has good but not perfect the flaws show in the other series where actually agnalaged and adressed
I have a softer stance on Star Trek, then you seem to, but I absolutely agree about ds9, it's my fave, because it calls out flaws of the federation, that all of the shows have, but not all choose to acknowledge. The federation still feels like a better future than our present, but not quite as unquestionable, with more emphasis on how you build/mantain better things through conflict, rather then just it happened in our past and we're good now, also why I love ST 6 the Undiscovered Country so much.
One of the scariest things about Psychopaths is that, contrary to common belief, they are entirely sane; they have full knowledge that they are hurting people and they do so with intent. They simply have no sentiment or empathy.
If that is the case then that makes Sudor an even more interesting character. Not that his actions should be condoned of course but he is a very compelling character played masterfully by Brad Douriff.
False; psychopathy is considered to be a neurological disorder...on a spectrum like narcissism. That's not sane; maybe not insane. But definitely not psychologically healthy or normal
Totally agreed over the archetype characters, I think the big problem was that Jerry Taylor & Michael Pillar were told by Rick Berman to tone down the emotion in Voyager between Characters, A.K.A. Trying to make the voyager crew more Utopian, even more than Gene Roddenberry would have liked.
As a result most of the characters ended up as walking automatons.
Sadly, this star trek is still more desirable than the modern Kurtzman era of Star Trek
It’s not that much more desirable. If anything, modern Trek takes many cues from Voyager in that they can’t develop characters to save their lives.
@@biggielittle1384 true but I'd take voyager, even enterprise over this modern STD garbage
you know i could see confused matthew saying season 2 of picard makes voyager and enterprise and ds9 season combined all look good. but then so far i could also see him saying season 3 of picard is the last jedi of star trek.(that is the highest praise i think confused matthew could give to something) like i would love to see confused matthew review many things today. there is still so much for him to review.
I like lower decks well enough
I always wondered why they had Voyager stuck in the delta quadrant. It meant that the show couldn't interact with all the places and characters of the ST universe without absurd plot devices.
Something different really. A stranded ship isn’t on a space station nor on a mission of exploration primarily. It’s basically get home.
Because it creates a lot of opportunities. Unfortunately they were never really explored. At the end of nearly every episode was the Magic Reset Button that fixed every damage to the ship refilled every missing resource and nearly always moved the ship to another region of space.
Basically to give it a USP compared to TOS+TNG.
I think it's a good premise, Voyager just wasted it. It would make resource management and repairs real problems, except infinite shuttle glitches and space dock quality reset buttons. It would lead to tensions, people seperated from loved ones, stuck in close quarters with past combatants, except everyone's fine in like a couple weeks. Without federation backing it might be hard to live up to utopian ideas as an underdog with no umph to back you up. Except it rarely comes up isn't acknowledged past the ep it comes up in. And the Vidians were the only really cool new species concept they had reoccurring, but they somehow thought the Kazon were more interesting. Voyager isn't my least favorite trek, but it is the one with the biggest gap between how much I like the concept, vs how much I like the execution.
Ya but it kind of makes sense for seven she was assimilate into the hive mind when she was like six so the borg hive mind is all we really now
You know what they say? If you can't stand the heat...get out of the nuclear reactor!
It isn't an "awful" TV show, it just wasn't as good as the shows prior to it. AmazingAtheist, summed it perfectly, it is a "good" show, but not a "great" show and for many, good just isn't good enough for Star Trek.
I really don't get your walking stereotypes.
I think the show went bad when it laser-focused on Seven Of Nines character or her tits to be more accurate.
When it was more focused on the Captain, Tuvak and The Doctor I thought it was good as they were the best characters. Enjoying your vitriol though lol
I've always tried to understand why people hate this show so much.
Of the little of Voyager I have seen, Tuvok centred episodes were always the most interesting.
I like Tom Paris
i'm surprised you didn't commend tim russ's performance in this episode. i thought he and suiter were fantastic.
I know I have commented a lot here but Star Trek has so much to unpack as I have watched more.
Betazoids in Trek fascinate me because they are complicated people. Tin Man from TNG and The Forsaken from DS9 and Meld here are examples of this.
yeah its a bit of a shame troi over shaddows them by being pretty bland most of the time.
I never hated this show, but of all the Prime Timeline Star Trek TV shows. If it wasn't for Enterprise then Voyager would be easily be the worst show in this part of the franchise.
No show is ment to be, or can withstand being ripped apart like this. They should be watched, and enjoyed in the moment for what they are, and not compared to anything. you should not be thinking about, or double checking what the writers were thinking while you are watching. this is sci fi fantasy. Granted, this star trek is different than others, partly because of the premise, but it is a Worthy star trek series that does not suck. As for the worst star trek, see enterprise.
@Daniel B believe me if it was that bad I wouldn't like it either.
Even though Confused Matthew has retired since around 2015, he has motioned back in 09 that Enterprise being much more insufferable then Voyager.
To quote him "Its not the worst Star Trek I have seen in my life, its not the worst Star Trek that has ever been made. Its dead to me."
Yesssssss thank you that show sucked so hard but you can’t criticize classic Star Trek no it’s perfect a optist future
No offense, but that’s a straw man argument if I’ve ever heard one. People who criticize new Trek are not doing so because “you can’t criticize classic Star Trek.” There’s plenty of classic Trek that isn’t good (TNG Season 1, most of Voyager, most of Enterprise), and people are willing to go after it as bad television. If anything, one of the problems with new Trek is identical to one of the problems Voyager had; they can’t develop characters to save their lives.
Cool 😎
Honestly I never really liked Star Trek that mutch the science and the aliens and the world building are cool but there just so stuck up and full of them selfs there so concerned they just go around juging people from there dance space ships were they can have any think they want handed to them and a lot of times there dumb and hypocritical witch they justifiy with philosophic bable. The ownly ones I actually like was deep space 9 because they actually had to live with and interact with people and the caption actually ends up getting called for be a condescending speasist and lurned from it actual character growth. And the federal was show has good but not perfect the flaws show in the other series where actually agnalaged and adressed
I have a softer stance on Star Trek, then you seem to, but I absolutely agree about ds9, it's my fave, because it calls out flaws of the federation, that all of the shows have, but not all choose to acknowledge. The federation still feels like a better future than our present, but not quite as unquestionable, with more emphasis on how you build/mantain better things through conflict, rather then just it happened in our past and we're good now, also why I love ST 6 the Undiscovered Country so much.
😉