It hit me - the reason you seem so good at everything you do is that you're willing to experiment and learn and try again, and very quickly learn from those mistakes. Thats a great skill to have.
Wow, great video. Love that fixture too! I remember when I first saw you forming cones out of 1/8” plate and using those cones to build stunning suspension uprights. That was a life changing experience.
Alan - yes, I agree that it's a lot of work, and it can only produce a cone with one angle, but if you want to make a cone specifically like that, there aren't a lot of options.
@@RonCovell hi ron i have been rolling cones for expansion chambers , for nearly fifty years, now they are not as accurate as yours as they are hand formed and hammered straightish but we have so many angles our easiest way would be wood or steel formers but again you have to make a lot of cones to be worth while
What a scandal it would be if someday we found out that just outside the camera view of Ron's admirably clean workspace there were hoarded stacks of newspapers, piles of laundry on the floor, and teetering piles of tools and scraps.
Well, I promise you that the rest of my workshop is nowhere near as 'squeaky-clean' as the area where I shoot videos, but I don't have piles of laundry on the floor, and I do stack my scrap metal fairly neatly. If you look closely behind my bending brake, you can see some real clutter: ruclips.net/video/7j74e7p-Xnw/видео.html
What a fantastic fixture! As usual, you give a super-clear explanation of each part of the process, and leave me with the (false) impression that I could do it too. 😁
Good afternoon, Ron! I thoroughly enjoyed the video as always. That is a very thoughtfully designed fixture Mr. Cooper built with all the supports and the series of small rollers. I wouldn't have thought of that and as a result would have ended up with lots of flex as you described. I appreciate you taking the time to share the process with us and even more so for showing your solutions to the minor problems you encountered along the way. Using the simple hose clamps was brilliant and worked like a champ.👌 Cheers, buddy. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Thanks so much. Yes, the hose clamps were a great solution for pulling the cone up tight against the mandrel. It probably could be done with rope, in a pinch (no pun intended).
Impressively accurate for such long skinny cone dimensions. Very nice. Great finishing job too. For a wooden mandrel, I might worry about shape stability long-term as the wood slightly swells and shrinks due to changing humidity. Then again I've never made anything from wood that required tight tolerances so maybe I'm overthinking it.
I think if a wooden mandrel was stored indoors, and protected from water dripping on it, it would be serviceable for decades. How long do baseball bats last?
@@RonCovell I had a wood mandrel,,,or buck made just like that aluminium cone to make a exhaust cone for a corvette restoration,, used a rubber hammer and hose clamps,,,worked quite well actually
Thank you for sharing your expertise in your videos, super interesting and very didactic, cant wait to experiment myself!!! Your channel is amazing! Greetings from Mexico
nice work Ron, i watched this this video because im involved with high quality double lock standing seam roofing, therefore i have to learn to fabricate waste stack vent pipe that wont leak from 26g painted steel. ive learned some techniques but id love to make a tool that would make some of it easier...
The Cone looks so Simple and clean, Your Method looks so Simple and Clean, Your Thinking looks so Simple and Clean. I am going to get up off my back side and do something.
I remember Mike being featured in your How To Work With Tubing video. The things that go through his mind when he creates his sculptures! Almost as much work building the fixtures and tools as the actual sculptures themselves.
My first project in Sophomore Metal Shop was an Expansion Chamber for my 63 Yamaha 55. 20 ga. galvanized with a folded lap seam, brazed together. My Teacher was derisive, called it a pop pop pipe. Would not give me a grade for it. 😎
Wow! Cone engineering has everything. The first cone I made was with a free template download, hammer, and pipe. It was very challenging and looked like a sack full of walnuts. Great video as always keep up the content Ron. I'll say it in advance congratulations on the 200K subs!
Hi Ron, I appreciate all you do it's very interesting to learn form a skilled man such as your self. On the cone rolling fixture you spoke about the many rollers rather than the singular one you mentioned that it was the rigidity was needed you were of course correct, also I might add that the distance each roller must travel per revolution of the mandrel would also be a factor.
You are absolutely correct that each of the rollers rotates at a unique rate, determined by where it touches the cone. When I made the 'heavy metal cone' fixture, there is only one roller, so I know most of it was sliding, but it still seemed to work OK. The issue would be greater on a longer cone, and on one with larger size differences between the large and small end, but I still think that bending is a larger issue than sliding. ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
I just use a normal straight roller. Of course, I have to pre-bend the edges. It rolls a cone but without any end pieces to it. These will be applied later if needed. On a machine, as you have I see it's much easier to get a nice shape without having to pull the sheet. Nice video. :)
Beautiful work and presentation. I made a cone for my project just yesterday but mine is certainly crude compared to yours. Nevertheless, my cone is satisfactory for its purpose: it stands on a gas stove burner and is used to radiate heat into a small space. I did the math to make my pattern then placed it on a section of used black stove pipe to mark the cuts. I cut it out with a plasma cutter then rolled it into a cone shape by hand. Mine is riveted together. I like your idea of making a mandrel from hard wood - I will try that next time to get more control on the final shape.
The pressure rollers are segmented because they have to roll at a different speed. When the mandrel turns half a rotation, the rollers at the large end have to roll a longer distance than at the smaller end. By segmenting the rollers they don't have to slide on the metal, causing extra effort to do the work.
What you say is certainly true, but I build a cone roller without segmentation, and it works pretty well - even though there is a lot of slipping going on: ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
I'm guessing the gap in the final cone was because the paper template was a lot thinner than the sheet metal used for the cone, and you have to account for the material thickness. I'm surprised the machine didn't have a big wheel to grab hold of and crank it round :D I was waiting for you to bring in this giant wheel from off camera and slot it onto the end :P Excellent stuff as always, Ron!
I think your idea about accounting for the metal thickness is right-on. I didn't think it would matter that much, but experience taught me I was wrong. Certainly a giant wheel could be used to turn the mandrel, but my half-inch 'breaker bar' worked just fine.
@@RonCovell I also wonder if running the material back and forth a few times will stretch the metal out enough to close up the gap. Will likely work better with softer more malleable metals like copper and aluminium, not sure about steel though 😊
From my experience with an English wheel, which is designed to stretch metal, I don't think Mike Cooper's tool develops enough pressure to stretch 34" of 16-gauge steel.
Your are correct. When calculating the blank size of a cylindrical/conical object you must use the outside circumference. In a previous life I used an Excel spreadsheet and later a parametric modeling program and a CNC machine to develop the flat pattern. The rolling machine Ron borrowed is nice for a pointy cone, open ( the frustrum of a ) cone can be made with a store bought sheet metal roller. I also added extra material that was marked by the NC machine to be trimmed away after rolling. This allowed us to have the finished edges to meet without any flat areas. We were rolling 1/8” aluminum.
I thought that this video was outstanding. Forming cones that have a fit up flat and tight is tough. Tig welding an inconsistent joint on a cone is to me the maximum frustration with no way to avoid the roller coaster weld. Not to be able to get to the inside for raising the low areas makes it worse. The fixture that you demonstrated is really a work of art. Thank you
Made a cone a few years ago. Just draw out the segment lines and as it rolled through the rollers i pulled the material so each line was parallel with the rollers. Cant even see my work no, its in the roof for an extractor. regards, Paul
@@RonCovell I used a sheet of ali. It was in fact a oblique cone. Stretched and shrunk opposite ends so it would fit in and over the different size pipes i was connecting to. All starts with a drawing
Oh my gosh ! What a great video ! I need to roll some cones from 1/4" aluminum. I will definitely watch your other video ....did you say the title was " Heavy Metal Cones" ? Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to compile and post this !!!
Here's the link for the Rolling Heavy Metal Cones video: ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html I've never done it with 1/4-inch material. It should be possible, but it will take a REALLY beefy fixture!
1:25 many rollers also because each roller is rotating at a different RPM as the cone varies in diameter. 1 long roller would be sliding on the workpiece.
Of course what you say is true. I did make a shorter cone rolling fixture, and even though the single roller had to slide, it still worked pretty well: ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
Wondering if you could show how to build a cone shaped multi section 45" firepit cover? I'm thinking of using galvanized flashing with seams like hvac ducting.
👍✝️🇺🇲💪 I think I'll have a go at making one of those horns they use on those old ricola commercials now! (I'll forward all of my neighbor's complaints to you)😉
Nice project. I think, maybe, that the multiple small rollers are to better accommodate the difference in surface speed at the various diameters along the cone and, as you pointed out, a single roller would have to be pretty big to be stiff enough. A single roller would have to slip or skid someplace to deal with the different speed. Not sure if that would make. big difference, but it probably wouldn't make things better. Many shorter rollers reduces this problem. Very nice fixture BTW. Those first few cones were pretty expensive if they had to absorb the cost of the fixture. I get a lot of cones for exhaust systems from CONE engineering.
Yes, there is no question that breaking the rolls into smaller segments reduces the 'sliding' a solid roller would have. I have made cones with a solid roller, so that issue is not a deal-breaker: ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
Hi Ron. He sure made an excellent fixture. I agree with you that wood might work well and it woudl be a lot cheaper than aluminum. Nicely done. Now you can start making horns for cars and musical instruments. ;)
I enjoyed this great video Ron. I admire your willingness to show how to make difficult parts. I also enjoy making seamless cones and round shapes in a spinning process. Working with sheet metal is my passion.
Thank you for the kind words. I would like to learn more about metal spinning. Could a cone this long and slender be made by spinning, and if so, would you prefer to start with a flat disc, or a piece of tubing? If tubing could be used, could it be welded tubing - either DOM, or ERW?
love your videos Ron keep up the good work, im currently making an exhaust for my motorcycle and i was wondering if it is possible to roll a cone with a normal slip roll
Well, it's tricky, but it can be done. A standard slip roll can't make a cone with a diameter smaller than the rollers, and small rollers tend to bend once they get very long. Here's an example of what CAN be done: ruclips.net/video/OsSMXqPs8OY/видео.html
I've been working in metal since childhood yet I always get to learn a new technique, pretty much every time I turn around. I've never had to make a cone, but that would've been helpful in making a few other sheet metal shapes. Most of my welding has been structural, but I've made a few fuel tanks and other types of tanks and I've seen some better methods than some I've stumbled through. Thanks Ron, always interesting!
What do you think of having 3 tapered rollers, all in one, like a parallel roller, but all with the same taper, you may be able to direct roll sheet steel to form your taper.
Ron, I have a question that I think you could answer, and would make a great video. I want to make a set of fenders for my car, but what's a good method to get them to match other than just eyeballing it? I will probably make them from fiberglass or carbon, but ideally I just want to make one with clay on the car. Then I'd cast a mold and try to mirror it. How do you accurately mirror a metal fender, or part?
Sounds like a cool project. I've found T0 aluminum rather difficult to source. It is not stocked by my local dealers, so I've had to special order it when needed.
When you first showed the fixture I thought the setup was intended for the attachment of the leading edge of the sheemetal (not the middle). So that rotation was in one direction while slowly adding additional pressure every rotation , similar to sliproller.
Well, you certainly could use this machine in a similar way, but that's not how Mike configured it. This video shows another approach with only two rollers, rather than the three on Mike's machine, and on a slip roll: ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
I sometimes do include the welder settings in my videos, but I didn't this time. Here's a rough overview: DC, electrode negative, 65 amps, 3/32" 2% lanthanted tungsten sharpened to a sharp point, at about 45-degrees, with 15 CFH argon and no pulsing. Did I miss anything?
Great video! I have a sheet metal question. I need to drill 54 1/2" ID holes along the long side (3/4") of a 1/2" x 3/4" x 36" piece of 1/16" thick aluminum angle. The centers of these holes need to be spaced 2/3" apart so there is a 1/6" wide space between their edges. Also the bottom edges of these holes need to be flush with the top of the short side (1/2") of the aluminum angle so there will be a 3/16 space between their tops and the edge of the aluminum angle. I only have a drill press to do this work. What is a good approach to accurately laying out and drilling these holes?
Many approaches to this. Ideally, I'd use an annular cutter to make the holes (like a Rotabroach): ruclips.net/video/QkApYGk2sQU/видео.html First, I'd lay out a centerline for all the holes, spaced 5/16" away from the corner of the angle.. I would do the layout on the OUTSIDE of the angle, so you will have to find a way to hold the angle upside down and horizontal in your drill press. A drill vise is a convenient way to do this. Next, I'd use a pair of dividers to lay out the hole centers along your layout line. Last, I'd centerpunch the center of each hole, and drill with the annular cutter. Easy peasy!
The Blue sculpture of the 6 wheeled racecar by Michael Cooper is based on a Tyrrell P34 car, which is a piece of auto racing history. I tried to find more pictures of this sculpture with no success. Can you provide a link or web address where I can see more pics of this piece of art? Thanks
Ron great video. I noticed you did not show the transition when welding a long seam. Did you stop or was it continuous. I'd like a video on how to join long welds, with multiple methods if possible arc tig mig?
It was a more-or-less continuous weld. I stopped a few times to re-position my body. Here's a video that addresses welding long seams in more detail: ruclips.net/video/nN9lSoWu7bg/видео.html
Instead of a drawing board, various graphic editors are used. they facilitate the work and give the possibility of automation of the design work. They share information through standardized file types.
Hi Ron, I’m in the woodworking trade myself, but I love metalworking for fun. I’m curious if there is a variety of sandpaper that you find best for this type of metal work? Not looking for brand names but abrasive type. I favour serated aluminum oxide for most of my work on bare wood and finishes for instance.
I use aluminum oxide for most of my abrasives. I'm told that newer abrasives like 3M Trizact are superior (and considerably more expensive) but I haven't invested in them yet.
Yes, I use bar soap to prevent aluminum from loading up abrasives, and it works quite well. Here's one example: ruclips.net/video/AdImOWRUalc/видео.html
Excellent info as always. Very thankful for the content you put out, it's an underappreciated resource. I got into metalwork at age 15, self taught from videos like yours over the last 15 years since. Keep it up!
Mike currently has a show running at the Museum of Sonoma County: museumsc.org/michael-cooper/ I have made two other videos that feature his work: ruclips.net/video/v6npNnhEa4s/видео.html ruclips.net/video/X88tJcuI5H4/видео.html Here's a video from the 1970's, showing Mike building an amazing piece called 'Turbo': ruclips.net/video/VnZtKAMc2HY/видео.html And last, Coopers website here is Cooper's website: michaelcooper.us/ Mike will have a book coming out in about 4 months detailing his entire career.
I thought of that. The small end of the cone is 1-inch, and the axle the cone rolls on is 1-inch, so I couldn't quite close up the small end of the cone unless I trimmed off a little material to make the cone shorter.
Hi Ron How did you prevent the weld from shrinking and turning it into a cone shaped banana..did you work the weld after welding I have done similar jobs in the past in steel and stainless ..had problems with the dreaded banana Cheers mate love your work
I've made quite a few cones, and none of them have curved like a banana. I can see how this could be a possibility, particularly with stainless. I didn't stretch the weld by hammering after it cooled, but that would be way to correct any distortion if it did happen. I think the smaller the diameter of the cone, and the smaller the taper, the more of a problem 'bananaization' would be.
@@RonCovell thanks mate...yes the cones I have done and had problems with were small diameter long cones ..and as such were extremely difficult to straighten...thanks for the reply Cheers mate
Mike told me that he made many passes. I figured that it takes a certain amount of torque to start the metal bending, and it's probably better to just keep going, rather than to make many passes at different 'depths'. Seems like it worked fine.
Any idea how long it took to make that fixture? Even with a water jet to cut all those ribs it seems like it'd be a solid week of work just for the structure, plus time on the lathe to cut that taper.
I didn't ask Mike how long he spent building that fixture. I know it would take me at least a week - probably longer. My little 1/2-horsepower lathe would really struggle turning a cone the size of that mandrel. Fortunately, Mike has a couple of pretty serious lathes.
Love the clean workspace and precision of your work. I was wondering if a modified version of this could make different angle cones. A center threaded shaft and multiple threaded disks to allow you to vary the distance from large to small end of the cone.
I have made SMALL conic sections using the technique you describe: ruclips.net/video/MaZ_tdqPRAQ/видео.html I don't think it would be feasible for cone this long, especially with one end so small, but I've never experimented to find the limits.
Heck no! That's a very expensive chunk of aluminum to start with, and it takes many, many hours to machine an aluminum cylinder into a cone shape. Who would want to throw away that much time and effort?
if you put that against gun fire (smaller cones) the crushing of the cone will absorb/deflect/bounce a ton of any incoming energy (like a bullet trap), hexagonal cone spike pattern
Really nice job. That cone looks to be virtually perfect. Can I ask have you made things like fully rounded ends to ie. pipes or containers? Any hints about how to approach such things in design and in actual fabrication. *edit* Asked too soon. Just noticed BlondiHacks collaboration. I'll definitely watch that 👍👍
It's pretty challenging to make a 180-degree dome from a flat piece of metal. One of the issues is that the center tends to get too thin. You can see a deeply-domed part I made here: ruclips.net/video/ES2g7OR9bic/видео.html Also, you can buy ready-made domes to cap pipes and containers: ruclips.net/video/QnXxzITsY-c/видео.html
My wife is hearing-impaired, so I have a good understanding of the importance of captioning. Also, I know that some people like to watch with the sound muted, for various reasons.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
It hit me - the reason you seem so good at everything you do is that you're willing to experiment and learn and try again, and very quickly learn from those mistakes. Thats a great skill to have.
You hit the nail on the head!
For the record, I just don't make videos about the MANY things I am NOT good at!
Good and humble well conscious dedicated instructor.
Thank you for the wonderful comment!
It's such a pleasure to see the videos of a gentleman! Many thanks to you!
So nice of you!
Wow, great video. Love that fixture too! I remember when I first saw you forming cones out of 1/8” plate and using those cones to build stunning suspension uprights. That was a life changing experience.
Thanks, Joe! Mike Cooper saw that simple design, and 'had his way' with it!
yes i like the fixture but it will only produce one cone angle , that a lot of work for one cone
Alan - yes, I agree that it's a lot of work, and it can only produce a cone with one angle, but if you want to make a cone specifically like that, there aren't a lot of options.
@@RonCovell hi ron i have been rolling cones for expansion chambers , for nearly fifty years, now they are not as accurate as yours as they are hand formed and hammered straightish but we have so many angles our easiest way would be wood or steel formers but again you have to make
a lot of cones to be worth while
Alan - I completely understand. Sometimes you just have to get the job done, and there isn't time to make a fancy fixture.
What a scandal it would be if someday we found out that just outside the camera view of Ron's admirably clean workspace there were hoarded stacks of newspapers, piles of laundry on the floor, and teetering piles of tools and scraps.
Well, I promise you that the rest of my workshop is nowhere near as 'squeaky-clean' as the area where I shoot videos, but I don't have piles of laundry on the floor, and I do stack my scrap metal fairly neatly.
If you look closely behind my bending brake, you can see some real clutter:
ruclips.net/video/7j74e7p-Xnw/видео.html
I’m pretty sure all the grinding dust would levitate it’s own way into the bin!.
What a fantastic fixture! As usual, you give a super-clear explanation of each part of the process, and leave me with the (false) impression that I could do it too. 😁
You probably could do it if you had that fixture!
Good afternoon, Ron! I thoroughly enjoyed the video as always. That is a very thoughtfully designed fixture Mr. Cooper built with all the supports and the series of small rollers. I wouldn't have thought of that and as a result would have ended up with lots of flex as you described. I appreciate you taking the time to share the process with us and even more so for showing your solutions to the minor problems you encountered along the way. Using the simple hose clamps was brilliant and worked like a champ.👌 Cheers, buddy. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Thanks so much. Yes, the hose clamps were a great solution for pulling the cone up tight against the mandrel. It probably could be done with rope, in a pinch (no pun intended).
Impressively accurate for such long skinny cone dimensions. Very nice. Great finishing job too.
For a wooden mandrel, I might worry about shape stability long-term as the wood slightly swells and shrinks due to changing humidity. Then again I've never made anything from wood that required tight tolerances so maybe I'm overthinking it.
I think if a wooden mandrel was stored indoors, and protected from water dripping on it, it would be serviceable for decades. How long do baseball bats last?
@@RonCovell Would sealing the wooden cone with several coats of marine spar varnish help?
I'm sure it would keep the wood a lot more stable. Wooden boats seem to go for quite a few years before they need to be re-sealed.
@@RonCovell I had a wood mandrel,,,or buck made just like that aluminium cone to make a exhaust cone for a corvette restoration,, used a rubber hammer and hose clamps,,,worked quite well actually
Hey, that's great! Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Hi Ron.
Fixtures are king.
I like to design odd stuff just so I can make a new tool or fixture.
Another project done well.
Jere
Thanks so much, Jere. Yes, sometimes the fixtures are as much fun as the project!
Great pleasure to watch and your warm smile is so appreciated !
Best wishes from Denmark
Thank you very much!
Mater Ron, how educative insight into the preparation and a nice recovery for the undercut 👍always a chance to learn something useful, as always
Glad you enjoyed it!
You have great mentorship skills! Thanks for a very informative and pleasant learning experience!
I appreciate that!
Thank you for sharing your expertise in your videos, super interesting and very didactic, cant wait to experiment myself!!! Your channel is amazing! Greetings from Mexico
nice work Ron, i watched this this video because im involved with high quality double lock standing seam roofing, therefore i have to learn to fabricate waste stack vent pipe that wont leak from 26g painted steel. ive learned some techniques but id love to make a tool that would make some of it easier...
Martin,
Why don't you email me some of the details of what you want to do, and maybe I'll have some ideas on how to make it:
covell@cruzio.com
The Cone looks so Simple and clean,
Your Method looks so Simple and Clean,
Your Thinking looks so Simple and Clean.
I am going to get up off my back side and do something.
I hope you do something cool!
I remember Mike being featured in your How To Work With Tubing video. The things that go through his mind when he creates his sculptures! Almost as much work building the fixtures and tools as the actual sculptures themselves.
There is a lot of truth in what you say!
That green brake is a gorgeous machine.
Thanks. It seemed expensive when I bought it, but that machine has served me very well for about 40 years!
Thanks for the video, you are in deed a great master in metal forming and workshop technics.
Thanks for watching, and for taking the time to comment!
My first project in Sophomore Metal Shop was an Expansion Chamber for my 63 Yamaha 55. 20 ga. galvanized with a folded lap seam, brazed together.
My Teacher was derisive, called it a pop pop pipe. Would not give me a grade for it.
😎
I would have given you an A+!
Wow! Cone engineering has everything. The first cone I made was with a free template download, hammer, and pipe. It was very challenging and looked like a sack full of walnuts. Great video as always keep up the content Ron. I'll say it in advance congratulations on the 200K subs!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Yes, I hope to top 200K subscribers in a few weeks!
Hi Ron, I appreciate all you do it's very interesting to learn form a skilled man such as your self.
On the cone rolling fixture you spoke about the many rollers rather than the singular one you mentioned that it was the rigidity was needed you were of course correct, also I might add that the distance each roller must travel per revolution of the mandrel would also be a factor.
You are absolutely correct that each of the rollers rotates at a unique rate, determined by where it touches the cone. When I made the 'heavy metal cone' fixture, there is only one roller, so I know most of it was sliding, but it still seemed to work OK. The issue would be greater on a longer cone, and on one with larger size differences between the large and small end, but I still think that bending is a larger issue than sliding.
ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
Nice work Ron👍 Your friend Mike is very talented
I think so too!
Wonderful art, and homemade cone machine. Great video Ron.
Thank you kindly!
I just use a normal straight roller. Of course, I have to pre-bend the edges. It rolls a cone but without any end pieces to it.
These will be applied later if needed. On a machine, as you have I see it's much easier to get a nice shape without having to pull the sheet. Nice video. :)
Sounds like you know what you're doing. Thanks for watching, and for commenting!
😲 I instantly subscribed. I have always wondered how this is done. Now I know! Thanks Ron!🤗
Welcome, and thanks for the sub!
Beautiful work and presentation. I made a cone for my project just yesterday but mine is certainly crude compared to yours. Nevertheless, my cone is satisfactory for its purpose: it stands on a gas stove burner and is used to radiate heat into a small space. I did the math to make my pattern then placed it on a section of used black stove pipe to mark the cuts. I cut it out with a plasma cutter then rolled it into a cone shape by hand. Mine is riveted together. I like your idea of making a mandrel from hard wood - I will try that next time to get more control on the final shape.
Sounds like you got good results from a much simpler setup!
Very nice! Hope we can cross paths again at the Detroit Autorama.
Thank you! I don't plan to travel to the Detroit Autorama this year - maybe again in 2024.
The pressure rollers are segmented because they have to roll at a different speed. When the mandrel turns half a rotation, the rollers at the large end have to roll a longer distance than at the smaller end. By segmenting the rollers they don't have to slide on the metal, causing extra effort to do the work.
What you say is certainly true, but I build a cone roller without segmentation, and it works pretty well - even though there is a lot of slipping going on:
ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
I'm guessing the gap in the final cone was because the paper template was a lot thinner than the sheet metal used for the cone, and you have to account for the material thickness. I'm surprised the machine didn't have a big wheel to grab hold of and crank it round :D I was waiting for you to bring in this giant wheel from off camera and slot it onto the end :P
Excellent stuff as always, Ron!
I think your idea about accounting for the metal thickness is right-on. I didn't think it would matter that much, but experience taught me I was wrong.
Certainly a giant wheel could be used to turn the mandrel, but my half-inch 'breaker bar' worked just fine.
@@RonCovell I also wonder if running the material back and forth a few times will stretch the metal out enough to close up the gap. Will likely work better with softer more malleable metals like copper and aluminium, not sure about steel though 😊
From my experience with an English wheel, which is designed to stretch metal, I don't think Mike Cooper's tool develops enough pressure to stretch 34" of 16-gauge steel.
Your are correct. When calculating the blank size of a cylindrical/conical object you must use the outside circumference. In a previous life I used an Excel spreadsheet and later a parametric modeling program and a CNC machine to develop the flat pattern.
The rolling machine Ron borrowed is nice for a pointy cone, open ( the frustrum of a ) cone can be made with a store bought sheet metal roller. I also added extra material that was marked by the NC machine to be trimmed away after rolling. This allowed us to have the finished edges to meet without any flat areas. We were rolling 1/8” aluminum.
Adding extra metal to the edge of the blank, and trimming after rolling is an excellent solution to eliminating the flat spot!
I thought that this video was outstanding. Forming cones that have a fit up flat and tight is tough. Tig welding an inconsistent joint on a cone is to me the maximum frustration with no way to avoid the roller coaster weld. Not to be able to get to the inside for raising the low areas makes it worse. The fixture that you demonstrated is really a work of art. Thank you
Yes, cones can be tricky to make, and I can see that you know the intimate details. Glad you enjoyed this video!
That fixture is a work of art!
Well, it was made by an artist!
Made a cone a few years ago. Just draw out the segment lines and as it rolled through the rollers i pulled the material so each line was parallel with the rollers.
Cant even see my work no, its in the roof for an extractor.
regards,
Paul
That's a clever idea - I hadn't thought of using lines for alignment!
@@RonCovell I used a sheet of ali. It was in fact a oblique cone. Stretched and shrunk opposite ends so it would fit in and over the different size pipes i was connecting to. All starts with a drawing
Hi Ron thanks again for your skill and knowledge your the craftsman
Thanks a million!
Oh my gosh ! What a great video ! I need to roll some cones from 1/4" aluminum. I will definitely watch your other video ....did you say the title was " Heavy Metal Cones" ? Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to compile and post this !!!
Here's the link for the Rolling Heavy Metal Cones video:
ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
I've never done it with 1/4-inch material. It should be possible, but it will take a REALLY beefy fixture!
Ron is the Mr. Rogers of metal working.
Thanks for the nice compliment!
Happy to see Colin furze shout you out in his new video!
Oh my gosh, what a thrill that was! And I LOVE that crazy drift trike modification he did by hydroforming stainless spheres for the rear tires!
@@RonCovell Thanks Ron 😀
1:25 many rollers also because each roller is rotating at a different RPM as the cone varies in diameter. 1 long roller would be sliding on the workpiece.
Of course what you say is true. I did make a shorter cone rolling fixture, and even though the single roller had to slide, it still worked pretty well:
ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
nice work mr Covell thanks for the information
I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
Wondering if you could show how to build a cone shaped multi section 45" firepit cover? I'm thinking of using galvanized flashing with seams like hvac ducting.
I think your idea could work well, and flashing is inexpensive, and easy to work with!
You are an inspiration sir! The next time I fabricate, I will be thinking about your craftsmanship. Absolutely excellent!
Wow, thanks!
A true Master using awesome tools to make the impossible. Spoke to him years ago at SEMA, a very nice person.
Thanks for that!
👍✝️🇺🇲💪 I think I'll have a go at making one of those horns they use on those old ricola commercials now! (I'll forward all of my neighbor's complaints to you)😉
All the best!
Great video. That tool/fixture mike made is a work of art in its own way.
Thanks, and I'm so glad you liked it!
Nice project. I think, maybe, that the multiple small rollers are to better accommodate the difference in surface speed at the various diameters along the cone and, as you pointed out, a single roller would have to be pretty big to be stiff enough. A single roller would have to slip or skid someplace to deal with the different speed. Not sure if that would make. big difference, but it probably wouldn't make things better. Many shorter rollers reduces this problem. Very nice fixture BTW. Those first few cones were pretty expensive if they had to absorb the cost of the fixture. I get a lot of cones for exhaust systems from CONE engineering.
Yes, there is no question that breaking the rolls into smaller segments reduces the 'sliding' a solid roller would have.
I have made cones with a solid roller, so that issue is not a deal-breaker:
ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
Hi Ron.
He sure made an excellent fixture.
I agree with you that wood might work well and it woudl be a lot cheaper than aluminum.
Nicely done. Now you can start making horns for cars and musical instruments. ;)
Thanks and musical instruments would be a fun diversion!
I enjoyed this great video Ron. I admire your willingness to show how to make difficult parts. I also enjoy making seamless cones and round shapes in a spinning process. Working with sheet metal is my passion.
Thank you for the kind words.
I would like to learn more about metal spinning. Could a cone this long and slender be made by spinning, and if so, would you prefer to start with a flat disc, or a piece of tubing? If tubing could be used, could it be welded tubing - either DOM, or ERW?
another fine video. great work!
Thank you! Cheers!
love your videos Ron keep up the good work, im currently making an exhaust for my motorcycle and i was wondering if it is possible to roll a cone with a normal slip roll
Well, it's tricky, but it can be done. A standard slip roll can't make a cone with a diameter smaller than the rollers, and small rollers tend to bend once they get very long.
Here's an example of what CAN be done:
ruclips.net/video/OsSMXqPs8OY/видео.html
I've been working in metal since childhood yet I always get to learn a new technique, pretty much every time I turn around. I've never had to make a cone, but that would've been helpful in making a few other sheet metal shapes. Most of my welding has been structural, but I've made a few fuel tanks and other types of tanks and I've seen some better methods than some I've stumbled through. Thanks Ron, always interesting!
Great! I'm glad to have you on board!
Awesome Ron!
Thanks so much!
What do you think of having 3 tapered rollers, all in one, like a parallel roller, but all with the same taper, you may be able to direct roll sheet steel to form your taper.
That would be the best way to go, and there are some specialized rollers made in that way:
ruclips.net/video/AEYOxDG-Tac/видео.html
Ron, I have a question that I think you could answer, and would make a great video. I want to make a set of fenders for my car, but what's a good method to get them to match other than just eyeballing it? I will probably make them from fiberglass or carbon, but ideally I just want to make one with clay on the car. Then I'd cast a mold and try to mirror it. How do you accurately mirror a metal fender, or part?
Jeff, I do have a video on just this subject. Here's the link:
ruclips.net/video/Ktj5DWaKXYI/видео.html
I made a flattened cone using the card stock layout method to form it from 16 gauge aluminum. T0 aluminum so it was like butter.
Sounds like a cool project. I've found T0 aluminum rather difficult to source. It is not stocked by my local dealers, so I've had to special order it when needed.
Thank you for making this video, I’ve always struggled with making cones, but you have given me some useful ideas.
I'm so glad!
When you first showed the fixture I thought the setup was intended for the attachment of the leading edge of the sheemetal (not the middle). So that rotation was in one direction while slowly adding additional pressure every rotation , similar to sliproller.
Well, you certainly could use this machine in a similar way, but that's not how Mike configured it. This video shows another approach with only two rollers, rather than the three on Mike's machine, and on a slip roll:
ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
Once again a great idea to make the cone. It helps me to make conical strainers from perforated sheets. Thank you so much. Sir, Ron Covell.
Glad you liked it!
Hey maybe next time you might include spec’s on your tig setting’s. Other than that it was awesome. I’m not sure where to start. Thanks Ron Murphy
I sometimes do include the welder settings in my videos, but I didn't this time. Here's a rough overview:
DC, electrode negative, 65 amps, 3/32" 2% lanthanted tungsten sharpened to a sharp point, at about 45-degrees, with 15 CFH argon and no pulsing. Did I miss anything?
Great video! I have a sheet metal question. I need to drill 54 1/2" ID holes along the long side (3/4") of a 1/2" x 3/4" x 36" piece of 1/16" thick aluminum angle. The centers of these holes need to be spaced 2/3" apart so there is a 1/6" wide space between their edges. Also the bottom edges of these holes need to be flush with the top of the short side (1/2") of the aluminum angle so there will be a 3/16 space between their tops and the edge of the aluminum angle. I only have a drill press to do this work. What is a good approach to accurately laying out and drilling these holes?
Many approaches to this. Ideally, I'd use an annular cutter to make the holes (like a Rotabroach):
ruclips.net/video/QkApYGk2sQU/видео.html
First, I'd lay out a centerline for all the holes, spaced 5/16" away from the corner of the angle.. I would do the layout on the OUTSIDE of the angle, so you will have to find a way to hold the angle upside down and horizontal in your drill press. A drill vise is a convenient way to do this.
Next, I'd use a pair of dividers to lay out the hole centers along your layout line.
Last, I'd centerpunch the center of each hole, and drill with the annular cutter.
Easy peasy!
The Blue sculpture of the 6 wheeled racecar by Michael Cooper is based on a Tyrrell P34 car, which is a piece of auto racing history. I tried to find more pictures of this sculpture with no success. Can you provide a link or web address where I can see more pics of this piece of art? Thanks
I'm sorry I don't have a link to more photos, but the car makes a cameo in this video:
ruclips.net/video/v6npNnhEa4s/видео.html
Clever idea. Great video.
Glad you liked it!
April 20th already?
The Premiere is in 12 hours.
LOL
Don't forget the essence of metal fabrication... it's about the cones.
Yes - and circles, triangles, and rectangles are all quite useful, too!
Ron great video. I noticed you did not show the transition when welding a long seam. Did you stop or was it continuous. I'd like a video on how to join long welds, with multiple methods if possible arc tig mig?
It was a more-or-less continuous weld. I stopped a few times to re-position my body.
Here's a video that addresses welding long seams in more detail:
ruclips.net/video/nN9lSoWu7bg/видео.html
Instead of a drawing board, various graphic editors are used. they facilitate the work and give the possibility of automation of the design work. They share information through standardized file types.
Thanks for the info!
Hi Ron, I’m in the woodworking trade myself, but I love metalworking for fun. I’m curious if there is a variety of sandpaper that you find best for this type of metal work? Not looking for brand names but abrasive type. I favour serated aluminum oxide for most of my work on bare wood and finishes for instance.
I use aluminum oxide for most of my abrasives. I'm told that newer abrasives like 3M Trizact are superior (and considerably more expensive) but I haven't invested in them yet.
@@RonCovell okay, thanks Ron.
@@RonCovell on a similar subject, do you have any tricks to prevent aluminum from loading up sanding belts?
Yes, I use bar soap to prevent aluminum from loading up abrasives, and it works quite well. Here's one example:
ruclips.net/video/AdImOWRUalc/видео.html
@@RonCovell Thanks so much Ron. That’ll save me a few buck for sure.
Excellent info as always. Very thankful for the content you put out, it's an underappreciated resource. I got into metalwork at age 15, self taught from videos like yours over the last 15 years since. Keep it up!
Great, and you can count on me to keep producing videos like this - I love it!
very good sir, I appreciate your skills
It's my pleasure!
Great work! If there any more info on the sculpture mike built?
Mike currently has a show running at the Museum of Sonoma County:
museumsc.org/michael-cooper/
I have made two other videos that feature his work:
ruclips.net/video/v6npNnhEa4s/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/X88tJcuI5H4/видео.html
Here's a video from the 1970's, showing Mike building an amazing piece called 'Turbo':
ruclips.net/video/VnZtKAMc2HY/видео.html
And last, Coopers website here is Cooper's website:
michaelcooper.us/
Mike will have a book coming out in about 4 months detailing his entire career.
I love seeing custom home built tools, take the guts from one machine and turn it into a game changer for another job!
Couldn't agree more!
Always learning from you! Thanks for sharing!
My pleasure!
I love watching you transform metal into shapes that seem only possible with machines!
I'm glad you enjoy watching!
just thinking you could slide the cone down the mandrel and tighten the clamps until the gap closes up tight. Awesome work as usual Ron.
I thought of that. The small end of the cone is 1-inch, and the axle the cone rolls on is 1-inch, so I couldn't quite close up the small end of the cone unless I trimmed off a little material to make the cone shorter.
Hi Ron
How did you prevent the weld from shrinking and turning it into a cone shaped banana..did you work the weld after welding
I have done similar jobs in the past in steel and stainless ..had problems with the dreaded banana
Cheers mate love your work
I've made quite a few cones, and none of them have curved like a banana. I can see how this could be a possibility, particularly with stainless.
I didn't stretch the weld by hammering after it cooled, but that would be way to correct any distortion if it did happen.
I think the smaller the diameter of the cone, and the smaller the taper, the more of a problem 'bananaization' would be.
@@RonCovell thanks mate...yes the cones I have done and had problems with were small diameter long cones ..and as such were extremely difficult to straighten...thanks for the reply
Cheers mate
What I learned. Air powah >>> electric powah! Those cleanup tools made finishing looks easy.
Yes, the right tools can really make the finishing steps easier!
got smarter！😊
thanks for the fun video
You're welcome!
If I understand correctly, the implied first step in "how to make a cone" is "make a cone". ;)
Well, in this case at least - yes!
Hi!
Why did you roll it in on go?
Is there any benefit versus doing it bit by bit?
Thanks
Mike told me that he made many passes. I figured that it takes a certain amount of torque to start the metal bending, and it's probably better to just keep going, rather than to make many passes at different 'depths'. Seems like it worked fine.
Any idea how long it took to make that fixture? Even with a water jet to cut all those ribs it seems like it'd be a solid week of work just for the structure, plus time on the lathe to cut that taper.
I didn't ask Mike how long he spent building that fixture. I know it would take me at least a week - probably longer. My little 1/2-horsepower lathe would really struggle turning a cone the size of that mandrel. Fortunately, Mike has a couple of pretty serious lathes.
Trippy sculptures. Thanks for sharing the engineering behind making them.
Yes, Mike Cooper is an extraordinary artist, and the techniques he utilizes to execute his visions are noteworthy in their own right!
@@RonCovell the Tyrrell P34B recreation especially looked amazing
I like that one a lot, too!
Very impressive jig - when you first mentioned borrowing a jig I was imagining something nailed together from wood!
Well, there are jigs, and then there are JIGS.
Working with sheet metal is a beautiful art and you do it so well.😊
Thank you so much 😀
Love the clean workspace and precision of your work. I was wondering if a modified version of this could make different angle cones. A center threaded shaft and multiple threaded disks to allow you to vary the distance from large to small end of the cone.
I have made SMALL conic sections using the technique you describe:
ruclips.net/video/MaZ_tdqPRAQ/видео.html
I don't think it would be feasible for cone this long, especially with one end so small, but I've never experimented to find the limits.
Beau travail
Merci beaucoup!
Very good work, thanks you.
I'm so glad you liked it!
Now Mike's art is art that I can appreciate
Yes, Mike Cooper makes art that resonates with many people.
Thank you for some more learning, and the introduction to Mike Cooper's work
Glad it was helpful!
Would you consider the mandrel a sacrificial part?
Heck no! That's a very expensive chunk of aluminum to start with, and it takes many, many hours to machine an aluminum cylinder into a cone shape. Who would want to throw away that much time and effort?
Another great vid! 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am just as impressed with this man's demenor as I am with his craft.
I'll take that as a compliment!
if you put that against gun fire (smaller cones) the crushing of the cone will absorb/deflect/bounce a ton of any incoming energy (like a bullet trap), hexagonal cone spike pattern
optional composite filling
its very light weight but strong, very low sheet metal volumetric density, very high filler/air density, as an armor
also the cone spikes mesh formation work like a rpg mesh grid pre-exploder in the abrams tanks
you could also directly crush-cast into cone spike form (molten or just push the metal into the form with a ton press)
push so hard that the sheet will be pushed into same thickness (with the mold inner cone pusher)
this comes at just the perfect time! Need something close to this (although WAY smaller) for a current project!
Glad to hear it, and good luck with your project!
Really nice job. That cone looks to be virtually perfect. Can I ask have you made things like fully rounded ends to ie. pipes or containers? Any hints about how to approach such things in design and in actual fabrication.
*edit* Asked too soon. Just noticed BlondiHacks collaboration. I'll definitely watch that 👍👍
It's pretty challenging to make a 180-degree dome from a flat piece of metal. One of the issues is that the center tends to get too thin.
You can see a deeply-domed part I made here:
ruclips.net/video/ES2g7OR9bic/видео.html
Also, you can buy ready-made domes to cap pipes and containers:
ruclips.net/video/QnXxzITsY-c/видео.html
Thanks for captioning this!
My wife is hearing-impaired, so I have a good understanding of the importance of captioning. Also, I know that some people like to watch with the sound muted, for various reasons.
awesome job
Thanks!
Thank you sir 👍
Parabens Amigo, exelente trabalho, belissima obra de arte.👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏
Muito obrigado!
Go on... give this man a like :)
sweet job
That was pretty cool Ron. Glad you shared this. 👍🏻
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I have another cone video you may enjoy:
ruclips.net/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/видео.html
love watching a master at work
Thanks - lots more to come!