Throughout the entirety of the WI unbeaten run from 80-95, only Pakistan really gave them serious competition. NZ had home umpires and they definitely helped, but as soon as they left NZ, they were mauled
@@oleggorky906 Clive never was an elite umpiring panel . he was a match referee. and I never heard any complaints about his stewardship. Even Indians thought the Eden Gardens semifinal in the 1996 CWC should have been abandoned. There have been complaints about his stewardship as a chief selector during the Dave Cameron years between 2013-2017. Martin Crowe wrote that Clive was destroying his legacy by picking a 2015 world cup squad that was not only not the strongest available, but there were also serious allegations of victimization against players involved in the 2014 India tour strike, Dwayne Bravo and Kieron pollard specifically. In NZ the WI players' behavior was unacceptable. That is a given. If however, you're comparing Pakistan in the WI in 1988 to WI in NZ in 1980, you're comparing apples and oranges. Yes umpiring errors were made in 1988. We've never seen close up footage so all we have is the testimony of Winston Benjamin and a few bat pad pakistani fielders. But if they said it was out, who am I to disagree. But the WI also faced poor umpiring in Pakistan. Javed Miandad's most common mode of dismissal was LBW. Miandad was only given out once LBW in Pakistan. So yes there was poor umpiring, on both sides, but they did not have a significant influence on the power balance in cricket. If Pakistan was a better team than the West Indies, they'd have a DEFINITIVE series victory. Pakistan was never able to do that. On the matter of umpiring in NZ,the WI players' behavior was unacceptable. But the NZ umpiring reeked of the worst kind of incompetence at best, shameless bias at worst. Ian Chappell described Fred Goodall as an extremely incompetent umpire. He didn't however think that he exhibited any bias, racial or otherwise. I would love to believe that but, as Ian probably didn't know, Fred Goodall was dropped from the after dinner speaking circuit because he made racist remarks about the West Indian players at an after dinner speech. Apparently what he said had to be extremely offensive as this was the New Zealand of Robert Muldoon, who was the only person on God's green earth to lend an open hand to the springboks during the late 70s and early 1980s, the most violent time in South Africa's apartheid era. If even New Zealanders of that era were so offended by what Goodall said, then it had to be bad. So i would add that maybe Fred Goodall was just a lousy umpire with a touch of racism or ethnic prejudice. It is entirely possible. But i doubt it
@@juanestadian8471 You are at cross purposes on some things here. I never mentioned racism, especially with reference to any 2014 tour. In fact I was writing about the period from 1990 to 1995 - some 19 to 24 years earlier, and a brief mention about a series in 1980 - 34 years before 2014. Yes, I used the wrong terminology as to elite umpiring and Clive became a Match Referee but there were definitely incidents in those series I mentioned, though the umpiring was bad on both sides in the Pakistan series (but they were the ones who lost and naturally would feel more aggrieved). I concentrated on the teams who had lost because these series took place and Australia did indeed loose by one run. There were definite incidents in 1990; at one stage one of the umpires was going to sue the BBC/Christopher Martin-Jenkins, though I couldn’t remember his name this afternoon - thirty odd years have passed after all. The player was Rob Bailey. And I think the Umpire was Lloyd Barker. And I was talking about the deliberate elbowing of Bruce Oxenford in 1980 - I mentioned him by name, not Fred Goodhall. There was a video around at one point and there was ill feeling at the conduct of the West Indies, even if the umpiring wasn’t great, you don’t elbow the Umpire at the back of the head. Yes, I may have got some of the details wrong. But crikey - 30 and 40 odd years? There was definitely a feeling that Bruce had been disrespected, although he probably didn’t help himself in the aftermath. And I don’t care if I can’t find things on record after all this time; there was a feeling that their players were not being controlled by Clive. I’m not sure where you’re going with the racism; I wasn’t making any racial point, just because I mentioned some West Indies indiscipline. Other teams have also been guilty of such things but you said that only one team had given the West Indies a run for their money. All I did was point to some series’ which were very close and it’s reasonable to say that the results might have been affected by events that went on at the time. Remember they were the best team at the time and by nature, the better teams create more opportunities; as such a losing team would be more likely to be affected and would complain because they don’t create as many opportunities; I Iwas making a devil’s advocate kind of case. To tell you the truth, I didn’t even know all the stuff that went on with Fred, and if what you say went on did go on (and I have no reason to doubt you) then yes, he did deserve to be removed. But I never had any racial motive in making any point here. Indeed, you are probably a more skilful writer and make the better case; I don’t have a massive ego and I am willing to concede the point. But I gave the dates and details as I remembered them and even if I was wrong on some points, I wouldn’t back a man who racially abuses opponents and he wasn’t the thrust of my argument as can be seen from the details I gave. Nevertheless, thanks for the additional details that you gave which gives a little more background than I had been previously aware of.
@@oleggorky906 I know you didn’t mention racism. I mentioned it as a possible and likely factor in Fred Goodall’s behavior towards the West Indian players. Ad this is based on his own words not conjecture
@@oleggorky906 also, Bruce oxenford didn’t umpire an FC game until 1993. Colin Croft elbowed said Fred Goodall. I did state at the outset that the West Indians were out of line for that behavior. But they’re not crazy people. They did not behave in this manner without anything external happening
@@juanestadian8471 My apologies. It was Fred Goodhall who was elbowed; a clear case of the mind playing tricks on me over a period of time. Fair enough; you’re satisfied I wasn’t making any racial points. I’m satisfied that I made some mistakes with the details - like names, etc - due to the passage of that time. Although I still disagree with some of the details, I can’t be bothered to labour the point with regard to Fred Goodhall. If he did what he did, then it seems like he got his comeuppance. Like I told you, some events that you mentioned gave more background than I was previously aware of. And I was clearly labouring under a misapprehension with the name which gave rise to not getting his character right. In the main, I concede the point in line with the additional details. Like I said, I don’t have a massive ego and I am always willing to concede an argument, if proven wrong. And I have been.
When waqar wasim and mushtaq were bowling pitch looked dead and easy for batting paradise for batsman but when bishop ambrose and Walsh were bowling pitch suddenly became bouncy swinging and difficult for batting
Coz of Pakz poor batting. Pak easily could have won that 1st test of 3. Pak bowled out WIs for 140 odd in 1st inngs, getting an early advantage but still lost the match
@Munna Hatela Bumbojaan Desmond Haynes went to fullfil a contract in SA in september/october of 1994. The WICB thought he should play in the regional 4 day tournament and debarred him from selection for the 95 Australia series, which the WI lost, in large part due to rubbish openers. Haynes successfully sued the board after I believe
It's one of those series involving Pakistan where they lost the first test which they should've had won then they got so disheartened that they ended up conceding the series due to strange team selection and poor batting. Leaving out Mushtaq for the 2nd test in favour of the 4th pacer was a mistake, then Mushtaq also got injured. They ended up losing this 2-0 when they could've won 1-0 even with a weakened squad - Saeed Anwar and Aqib Javed were injured. Windies had a full strength squad for that series. You're not going to win a test series with Nadeem Khan and Aamer Nazir in the bowling attack as back ups when the main 2 fast bowlers are out of form. Ata-ur-Rehman was that generation's Haris Rauf/Mohammad Sami who bowled okay now and again (was good in the first Test) but mainly leaked runs for the majority of his career. Not sure where Salim Malik was during this series but the batting order was just weak barring Inzy at the time. There was another batter who travelled and possibly even played in the 3rd test to replace Sohail whose name escapes me.
No buddy..we would have taken our game up a level and beaten you anyway. We knew how to win. This series came after we won in Australia. Pakistan were good though
Why does it have this disgusting yellow banner all across the screen. Really wanted to see the entire video but couldn't bear it after about 1 minute...
Throughout the entirety of the WI unbeaten run from 80-95, only Pakistan really gave them serious competition. NZ had home umpires and they definitely helped, but as soon as they left NZ, they were mauled
@@oleggorky906 Clive never was an elite umpiring panel . he was a match referee. and I never heard any complaints about his stewardship. Even Indians thought the Eden Gardens semifinal in the 1996 CWC should have been abandoned. There have been complaints about his stewardship as a chief selector during the Dave Cameron years between 2013-2017. Martin Crowe wrote that Clive was destroying his legacy by picking a 2015 world cup squad that was not only not the strongest available, but there were also serious allegations of victimization against players involved in the 2014 India tour strike, Dwayne Bravo and Kieron pollard specifically.
In NZ the WI players' behavior was unacceptable. That is a given. If however, you're comparing Pakistan in the WI in 1988 to WI in NZ in 1980, you're comparing apples and oranges. Yes umpiring errors were made in 1988. We've never seen close up footage so all we have is the testimony of Winston Benjamin and a few bat pad pakistani fielders. But if they said it was out, who am I to disagree. But the WI also faced poor umpiring in Pakistan. Javed Miandad's most common mode of dismissal was LBW. Miandad was only given out once LBW in Pakistan. So yes there was poor umpiring, on both sides, but they did not have a significant influence on the power balance in cricket. If Pakistan was a better team than the West Indies, they'd have a DEFINITIVE series victory. Pakistan was never able to do that.
On the matter of umpiring in NZ,the WI players' behavior was unacceptable. But the NZ umpiring reeked of the worst kind of incompetence at best, shameless bias at worst. Ian Chappell described Fred Goodall as an extremely incompetent umpire. He didn't however think that he exhibited any bias, racial or otherwise. I would love to believe that but, as Ian probably didn't know, Fred Goodall was dropped from the after dinner speaking circuit because he made racist remarks about the West Indian players at an after dinner speech. Apparently what he said had to be extremely offensive as this was the New Zealand of Robert Muldoon, who was the only person on God's green earth to lend an open hand to the springboks during the late 70s and early 1980s, the most violent time in South Africa's apartheid era. If even New Zealanders of that era were so offended by what Goodall said, then it had to be bad. So i would add that maybe Fred Goodall was just a lousy umpire with a touch of racism or ethnic prejudice. It is entirely possible. But i doubt it
@@juanestadian8471 You are at cross purposes on some things here. I never mentioned racism, especially with reference to any 2014 tour. In fact I was writing about the period from 1990 to 1995 - some 19 to 24 years earlier, and a brief mention about a series in 1980 - 34 years before 2014.
Yes, I used the wrong terminology as to elite umpiring and Clive became a Match Referee but there were definitely incidents in those series I mentioned, though the umpiring was bad on both sides in the Pakistan series (but they were the ones who lost and naturally would feel more aggrieved). I concentrated on the teams who had lost because these series took place and Australia did indeed loose by one run. There were definite incidents in 1990; at one stage one of the umpires was going to sue the BBC/Christopher Martin-Jenkins, though I couldn’t remember his name this afternoon - thirty odd years have passed after all. The player was Rob Bailey. And I think the Umpire was Lloyd Barker.
And I was talking about the deliberate elbowing of Bruce Oxenford in 1980 - I mentioned him by name, not Fred Goodhall. There was a video around at one point and there was ill feeling at the conduct of the West Indies, even if the umpiring wasn’t great, you don’t elbow the Umpire at the back of the head. Yes, I may have got some of the details wrong. But crikey - 30 and 40 odd years? There was definitely a feeling that Bruce had been disrespected, although he probably didn’t help himself in the aftermath. And I don’t care if I can’t find things on record after all this time; there was a feeling that their players were not being controlled by Clive.
I’m not sure where you’re going with the racism; I wasn’t making any racial point, just because I mentioned some West Indies indiscipline. Other teams have also been guilty of such things but you said that only one team had given the West Indies a run for their money. All I did was point to some series’ which were very close and it’s reasonable to say that the results might have been affected by events that went on at the time. Remember they were the best team at the time and by nature, the better teams create more opportunities; as such a losing team would be more likely to be affected and would complain because they don’t create as many opportunities; I Iwas making a devil’s advocate kind of case.
To tell you the truth, I didn’t even know all the stuff that went on with Fred, and if what you say went on did go on (and I have no reason to doubt you) then yes, he did deserve to be removed. But I never had any racial motive in making any point here.
Indeed, you are probably a more skilful writer and make the better case; I don’t have a massive ego and I am willing to concede the point. But I gave the dates and details as I remembered them and even if I was wrong on some points, I wouldn’t back a man who racially abuses opponents and he wasn’t the thrust of my argument as can be seen from the details I gave. Nevertheless, thanks for the additional details that you gave which gives a little more background than I had been previously aware of.
@@oleggorky906 I know you didn’t mention racism. I mentioned it as a possible and likely factor in Fred Goodall’s behavior towards the West Indian players. Ad this is based on his own words not conjecture
@@oleggorky906 also, Bruce oxenford didn’t umpire an FC game until 1993. Colin Croft elbowed said Fred Goodall. I did state at the outset that the West Indians were out of line for that behavior. But they’re not crazy people. They did not behave in this manner without anything external happening
@@juanestadian8471 My apologies. It was Fred Goodhall who was elbowed; a clear case of the mind playing tricks on me over a period of time.
Fair enough; you’re satisfied I wasn’t making any racial points. I’m satisfied that I made some mistakes with the details - like names, etc - due to the passage of that time. Although I still disagree with some of the details, I can’t be bothered to labour the point with regard to Fred Goodhall.
If he did what he did, then it seems like he got his comeuppance. Like I told you, some events that you mentioned gave more background than I was previously aware of. And I was clearly labouring under a misapprehension with the name which gave rise to not getting his character right.
In the main, I concede the point in line with the additional details. Like I said, I don’t have a massive ego and I am always willing to concede an argument, if proven wrong. And I have been.
Another Brilliant Upload Keep It up
Great work you have done keep it
Good quality footage
When waqar wasim and mushtaq were bowling pitch looked dead and easy for batting paradise for batsman but when bishop ambrose and Walsh were bowling pitch suddenly became bouncy swinging and difficult for batting
Coz of Pakz poor batting. Pak easily could have won that 1st test of 3. Pak bowled out WIs for 140 odd in 1st inngs, getting an early advantage but still lost the match
Very Nice keep it
Should have been Lara's first hundred at home as well. he got a freak delivery from mujtaba
FRONT FOOT CRICKET, was this series controversial, please let me know.
Very good ❤️
Hi...have u Srilanka VS Pakistan Test Match at Faisalabad in 2004 or 2005
The WI batsman are brave as hell to not be wearing helmets to Wasim and Waqar
Glorious time
what went wrong that Desmond Haynes & Richie Richardson didn't play after wc 1996 ?
@Munna Hatela Bumbojaan Desmond Haynes went to fullfil a contract in SA in september/october of 1994. The WICB thought he should play in the regional 4 day tournament and debarred him from selection for the 95 Australia series, which the WI lost, in large part due to rubbish openers. Haynes successfully sued the board after I believe
@@juanestadian8471 WI mainly lost the 95 series due to amateur openers in Williams and Campbell + Ambrose was recovering from his shoulder surgery.
It's one of those series involving Pakistan where they lost the first test which they should've had won then they got so disheartened that they ended up conceding the series due to strange team selection and poor batting. Leaving out Mushtaq for the 2nd test in favour of the 4th pacer was a mistake, then Mushtaq also got injured. They ended up losing this 2-0 when they could've won 1-0 even with a weakened squad - Saeed Anwar and Aqib Javed were injured. Windies had a full strength squad for that series. You're not going to win a test series with Nadeem Khan and Aamer Nazir in the bowling attack as back ups when the main 2 fast bowlers are out of form. Ata-ur-Rehman was that generation's Haris Rauf/Mohammad Sami who bowled okay now and again (was good in the first Test) but mainly leaked runs for the majority of his career.
Not sure where Salim Malik was during this series but the batting order was just weak barring Inzy at the time. There was another batter who travelled and possibly even played in the 3rd test to replace Sohail whose name escapes me.
No buddy..we would have taken our game up a level and beaten you anyway. We knew how to win. This series came after we won in Australia. Pakistan were good though
Why does it have this disgusting yellow banner all across the screen. Really wanted to see the entire video but couldn't bear it after about 1 minute...
That was a terrible test series for Pakistan
The beginning of the decline for Pakistan in the 90's
And West Indies!
Javed miandad is not a great batsman maybe on dead wickets but he wanted in 93
Very Nice keep it