So much drama in buying records. Back in the day, we just bought the new Deep Purple album, took it to a friend's basement, cracked a beer, smoked a bowl and listened to the music. We didn't worry about various "problems" of record collecting. RUclips "content creators" create a lot of drama in something that is so simple. Just buy what you like, don't worry about the monetary value of your record, and enjoy the music.
If you know the value of your “collection” you are an investment speculator, put on that deep purple record without checking to see if you are devaluing it by enjoying it
@greyhounddude6112. Exactly. Way back then, vinyl records were much cheaper. This Vinyl Revival Community is a bit pretentious and overblown. I'm with you 100% (me: 68 years of age)
@@joelfrombethlehem - I'll give you a more substantial response as soon as I figure out whether I should buy the Fleetwood Mac Rumors album mastered by Kevin Gray for $35 or hold out for the two record, 45 RPM edition mastered by Bernie Grundman for $65 or save up for the UHQR edition for $150, in which case I'll have to add a special rider to my homeowners insurance policy to cover that record. Or should I just keep the $4 original, slightly beat copy of Rumors that I found at the thrift store a couple of months ago. Decisions, decisions. And all this time I thought my CD copy sounded good enough. But the vinyl people on RUclips told me I was wrong and that it wasn't "warm" enough.
It must be nice to come from a place of privilege where losing something you've put a significant amount of time and money into wouldn't be a problem if it all burned down in a fire or got stolen. What a crappy response to this video. Shame on you.
Your 4,000 records aren’t worth the median price of each one summed together for the same reason you can’t take 4,000 records to an appraiser the way you can appraise a diamond ring. You’ll have to work hard for that median price and create 4,000 separate listings, pay for storage, order 4,000 mailers, make 4,000 trips to the post office, etc etc and the whole process might take you several years if you want that median price for each record. In the end, not all of them will sell so easily. But that diamond ring is super easy to sell and the value you get is obtainable in one nice tidy transaction. The Discogs median price for a large collection requires a huge investment of sweat equity.
Yeah, it's all subjective. Collections in general aren't worth much. If I died tomorrow my wife would probably just put my album collection on the curb.
Yes, I've asked my insurance company and I have mentioned Discogs... I've also filmed my collection, to show the amount of records (~10k today). The best I can do is to conservatively grade everything, add notes regarding autographed items etc and if the day come (God forbid) my place burns to the ground, that list is helpful in some way purely because there is no reasonable other way to value the lot. But primarily it's not about the money. I would never have the time to replace them and I also have rare one-offs etc. I play my records, I enjoy the music and it contains memories.
Ya know this grading has become an industry in itself. Could only see it for coinage, It had taken all the fun out of sports trading cards, now even gone to die cast vehicles & records. I always transferred records to a heavy sleeve, what thanks, pennies on the dollar in trades.🙄
I bought my first lp in 1970, Abbey Road. I was a few months from my 12th birthday. I have owned thousands of records. I have about 500 now. Any collector would drool over it. I can never replace it. Money would not be a factor if something happened. The time invested can not be replaced. What's important is the enjoyment it has brought to my life. In my teen years before I became a collector it saved me. It has been the second most important part of my life. Jack Russell's are number one. I make an effort not to dwell long on the danger it (the collection) may be in. Money can not replace it and would not comfort me if something happened to the collection. Spend the money for insurance on more records and play them. This is in no way a dismissal of someone else's concern. It's just my opinion.
I had a house fire a couple years back and lost about 200 of my 1700 records. LUCKILY, I had an amazing claim adjuster and he saw how many I lost and didn’t question it when I had to rebuy them all. I had everything documented with Discogs, but some of the albums were really rare and I wasn’t able to find a replacement in the year I had, so he allowed me to buy other albums with the same value. I will say the insurance company was AAA. I would never use anyone else, even if they are a little more expensive than others. They were a lifesaver and made a horrible situation a little less stressful.
You've definitely hit the nail on the head. I've encountered the issue when I asked my insurance agent about covering other collectibles i.e. gig posters and such. When I mentioned art prints, their first response was "Oh, like Warhol prints?" to which I laughed at because I do not own artwork worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then immediately felt dumb explaining gig posters and such. When they asked how the value is determined and I explained stuff like ebay, Expresso Beans, etc, I could feel through the phone them laughing at how not valid those sources are. It's really defeating. Even if you wanted retail value of a collection, insurance companies seem to expect you to retain receipts. Because we all keep every receipt from every record we have ever purchased. Not to mention we all know how most LSD receipts are very detailed on each line item. /s
So, we met with our insurance company yesterday. I specifically thought of this video and asked about record policies. The response I got from a major insurance company was that they can contact specialty companies to ensure the collections. The suggestion that our agent had was to take photos of your collection. In the heat of the moment, it's really hard to remember what you had, and be able to make a guess as to how to replace it. The other thing was that personal property recovery wasn't enough. When we looked at our numbers, the amount that we were insured for it needed to be increased just to cover what we had. And then when we talked about collectibles, our agent suggested that we we open a policy with a underwriter for records. I'll find out who that is when we get the quote, and post it here
This issue has been on my mind for the past 10-20 years as my collection has grown to well over 10,000 items (approx value £100k maybe). I don’t own many particularly high value items (nothing over about £300) so I’d be interested to hear from any UK collectors who have managed to get insurance cover for similar size collections at a reasonable price. Who did you use and what did you pay?
You can add an insurance rider to your policy to cover collectibles ( A rider is an insurance policy provision that adds benefits to or amends the terms of a basic insurance policy to provide additional coverage.), however...not every insurance company offers this option. My insurance company is one of those. I maxed my home coverage out to cover as much of my collection they would allow. I wish there were more options.
Totally, I know that's an option -- the question is, will they accept Discogs as a means to assess? That's the X factor this whole video is based around.
@TooManyRecords my insurance company wasn't interested in a database to prove value. Rather just maximize coverage to be able to buy back the important stuff. They never want to cover "current value". A friend of mine had a trading card shop. He kept thousands of bulk (low value) cards in his shop at all times. It was almost a Hazzard. He did it to cover the stupid expensive cards because insurance wouldn't replace a piece of cardboard at over a thousand dollars, but they'll add a dollar value to each of those bulk cards...hopefully giving him enough $ to cover the expensive ones should something happen.
I have both a record collection and a video game collection. I was able to get insurance on the video games by stating a rider value for the entire collection. But I had to give a detailed inventory serial numbers; conditions and I had to state a value on each item. They also came in and took a tour and pictures of the games. Long as I did not state a crazy value they were fine with it. So if the house is a total loss; what ever the upper value is for the games will be covered up to what I insured my collection for. What the policy does not cover is deterioration from age. So if a game breaks, I can't turn that in; if I drop it down a flight of steps thats on me. But if I had a water pipe break, fire ect. I am covered. But you are paying that premium; I have been told if I want to assign dollar amounts to my record collection I could add that to the same policy in a separate collection. I am going through Erie insurance for this coverage and have had this coverage for about 16 years. This is above and beyond my home owners and car insurance ect... I also have taken similar insurance out on some of my more expensive stereo gear. Give those folks a call. I don't put a lot of stock in apraisals personally.
I looked into this and the only insurance company that would even consider covering my record collection charged so much per year for the policy that I decided that if the absolute worst happens and it goes up in smoke literally I will walk away from all my hobbies. This sound dramatic but honestly at this point I think the only way I will ever stop collecting is if something like this happens and it will be a sign to just stop because if something that bad happens then I need to focus on myself and my family and let possessions just not be important.
I have a policy through State Farm specifically for vinyl records that is 100% replacement for my collection (records only as cds and cassette only go under homeowners) . I had to make a spreadsheet with the value of each album listed. Every two years I send in an updated list and if I want to increase the value covered they adjust the premium It is a one time only policy. So let's say I stepped on a grail worth $500 and broke it. I could file a claim, get the $500, but then the policy is done and over and can never be issued again. I originally got it about 14 -15 years ago but I'm sure if State Farm is still offering new policies or not. I pay about $40/ month for it.
So, I was a truck mechanic for 20 years. I had my tools insured through my homeowners policy. Sure, the shop had insurance and would cover them to a point but, I had to inventory every tool I had ever bought. It was easy because I could have the Snap-On and Mac dealer print me off lists and I have those lists and receipts in a big fire proof box. Same with my records and cd's. I have about 75% of my physical media cataloged via Discogs now and I also have a note book of every record and cd I have ever bought. It's tedious and overwhelming at times but, if and when something happens, you'll be glad you have everything on record.
I think the tricky thing Matt is alluding to the current value of the records. An insurance company may pay out what you paid for a particular record, but that would not be the same cost to replace that exact record in the future if something occurred. So you might be technically covered for what you paid, but not what it's worth to replace.
You're American. Everything revolves around money. I wouldn't give 50c for a pristine LP I wouldn't play. Value and worth are two different things. Play the damn things and be moved by the music. That my friend, is priceless
I didn't watch the vid in it's entirety, but I can tell you my homeowners coverage covers my record collection. I specifically disclosed to my agent that I needed $XX,XXX dollars in REPLACEMENT value for my LP's. We upped my personal property coverage to cover that value (plus a small % for appreciation) rather than ID my LP's as a collection - which takes on a different connotation with some insurance companies I talked to. Therefore it's personal property and it's covered at replacement value. That way I can re-buy the collection along with clothes, furniture, etc. in the event of a catastrophe - and if I want to spend $500 on that AB1006 copy of Aja, I can, with the understanding that I have a finite amount of money to spend on all the other things I need to replace.
I don’t have anything super valuable but lots of collectors have some crazy valuable records and posters, maybe just a few items would be great to get it appraised . I did find this encouraging to finish putting my collection on discogs
My experience is that insurance companies do whatever they can to get out of paying for anything… but State Farm said I can use Discogs but for any record over $1000 I need a receipt or appraisal. It’s was then over $100 a month extra.
I'll be honest, I have a very modest collection (450 LP's & 1200 CD's) which I absolutely love but to be honest if something catastrophic happened (fire, flood etc.) my collection would be the least of my worries & you know what - - when the time is right - - I'll enjoy building it back up.
I was with you until you said "building it back up". Would probably be a load off my back to lose my music collection, well, minus the CDs because they take up so much less space.
I have about 600 to 700 record LPs and a couple hundred 45s. Most are pretty common titles, none catalogued with Discogs... I just take my losses should it ever come to that. I am old, I enjoyed my records, tapes and CDs over time and much of the music is also in the cloud. I understand the sentimental value connected with "a record", but in the end if it is gone, it's gone. The music itself still lives on.... somewhere.
There was some discussion in the VC about 10 years ago about insurance...some collectors claimed that State Farm had a specific policy that covered records. A comment I found said they had called State Farm and they said you needed "to have proof of ownership, a catalog of what you own and value from a reliable source of each record, plus a description of the condition of each" I don't know...again, this was a decade ago and haven't looked into it myself.
Re ups and downs of individual records, that does not matter, it is a red herring. The aggregate will be more stable. Basic statistics. "Protect value of investment" You have the wrong mindset. If you consider your collection an investment, you are in it for the wrong reason. There is also the question of sum of sales prices of each record (= discogs value) vs aggregate value (wholesale guesstimated 20% of that; as a used record buyer you know about that). That's likely also why insurance companies are unlikely to go by discogs prices. Bottom line, don't worry about it, enjoy your records. If disaster should strike, take a deep breath, get whatever you can, and move on.
"Value" is a concept that is wholly subjective when it comes to collections of records, comic books et cetera, because their value is very singular. The value of silverware, for example, is very easy to quantify, for example, because it is made of a precious metal, and its value can be decided easily. A stack of paper or pieces of plastic/vinyl/whatever are far more difficult to distinguish. That's why I have always said that a record/comic book/baseball card is worth precisely as much as someone is willing to pay for it -- and that might not always be listed on a piece of paper or an online price guide. For that reason, I believe such "values" are just the easy points to begin negotiations.
One thing that would make Discogs more reliable with oricing is having them do away with only basing the value off of the last 10 sales. Its not a huge fix, but definitely a step in the right direction.
I love movies as well and theres a similar issue i've heard from people in the physical media space there, were it's just hard to get people to take the value of a collection seriously.
Because it is all relative. For example, you can ask the same price an album has sold for and 95% you will not be able to sell it for that price. It's not like you are insuring common household items or Picassos.
My collection on Discogs is currently around $99,000 medium value. I have many LPs in mint condition. I also haven't finished cataloging all my LPs and CDs. Tried to get insurance a few years back and was told that my homeowners covers $2500 and that's it. Not sure I'm going to sweat it at this point as I do keep the records and CDs in living spaces and off floors. Great topic to have to consider though!
I live on the edge and have never had home or property insurance. No health insurance either. Something I've been wondering for a long time: How does Discogs define what an album is worth? Look up pretty much any record and it only shows maybe 10 sold listings that span a couple of years. That's hardly enough to gauge what an album is worth. I've sold music on Ebay, and I know that what some things have sold for does not make it worth that. Pretty much every time I have posted albums on Ebay for sale, they sell for less than what they historically have gone for, (and I'm taking about within weeks.) and that's with good pictures.
Anyone who’s read a standard homeowners insurance policy will see personal possessions or collections are essentially not covered. They cover next to nothing.
I collect, as well as sell records. I know if i sold my entire collection at once, i would get nowhere its piece-by-piece value. That's part of the equation I'm surprised you didnt mention. How can you approach replacement value realistically? Did some of it get damaged?, some survived, were the ones that survived, the most valuable? I got a lot of my collection in the 90s, when people were just giving away amazing stuff, and back then, the stuff was still new enough to be in primo condition. I really didnt pay a lot, but now they're worth a lot. The past 10 years of buying have been much more expensive
I have decent record collection---nothing too special but my own collection (LPs, 45s and 12" singles) that I purchased with my hard earned money as a kid and young adult. I also have my parent's albums from the 60s and early 70s. During COVID, I was home bound so I managed to categorize and alphabetize everything as well as get new sleeves and covers. I've always taken good care of my stuff (including hifi gear) and they all still sound great, even with pops and crackles. Take care of your stuff and it will last a long, long time. I don't really worry about the worth because I'm not planning on selling any of it. My collections have emotional and sentimental worth. Same goes for my CDs.
Collectibles Insurance Services told me they write up policies every week on record collections on the collector and dealer side. They sales rep told me that they would go with discogs median up front. If there was a claim they would look for the value at the time to see if things went up or down. i do think it would be beneficial to talk to somebody on the claims side for verification. I see a few other collectible instance companies out there and they all say you need to keep a detailed inventory.
@@TooManyRecordswell they did say up front that they would go with the discogs median for the collection and to keep an inventory so discogs is recognized which seemed to be a primary concern of yours. it. also is specifically geared towards collectibles and lists record collections as things they cover and they write up policies for both collectors and dealers. it’s about as surefire as insurance gets - sometimes people don’t get exactly what their car is worth.
Obviously, records are not the only collectors item out there. Id' assume many other items are in this boat as well. The one thing that comes to mind that is NOT in this boat are trading cards and sports memorabilia. Many official collectors items in those categories are professionally/officially graded by someone and in some cases even certifications of authenticity are provided. I would think at that point that it's essentially like a home value assessment. If assessors says it's worth $400k, then insurance covers it at that value. Which means maybe the first step is creating a major network of record collectors/physical music experts to come up with an official 'record collection value assessment' system for insurance purposes. Idk, just a thought
@@TooManyRecords yea it makes me feel a bit icky. But like you mentioned, once you're long-time collector with a decent sized collection, you're kinda in a catch-22 with protecting your investment vs still having a love for it.
Also noticed you mention you own a record store. Is that covered with some sort of finished stock and inventory insurance? I wonder if there’s a way to couple your personal collection with that insurance since each record in your personal collection is something you might consider hypothetically selling in your store? I’m just guessing you must have some insurance for the records in the store?
If you want a record collection appraised, that is one of the things that Jerry Osborne does. He is the recognized publisher of industry-recognized record price guides. If you have your collection(s) inventoried, keeping your inventoried records up to date and saved digitally, with current up-to-date widely recognized price guides should satisfy any insurance companies. I used to see them regularly at different collectables shows, there were insurance companies who would insure almost anything.
@@TooManyRecordsyeah, because Discogs is completely accurate and fair and everyone using it as a guide for pricing is completely without greed and accurately grades their own album covers and vinyl.
Maybe there's some idea around creating a collective pool of money that we buy into and if nothing happens at the end of the year you get a % back of what you put in. Maybe we just need to start a better insurance company model :D
The old hippy dude who runs my local record store mentioned this to me years ago and suggested keeping any and all receipts from each record so at the very least I can get what I paid for them in the event they where lost in a fire or something.
When I look at those cabinets, all I can think about is how to digitize them without the pops clicks (even on good condition, static buildup). I listened to a couple albums last night with headphones, I just prefer the ease of the CD.
No matter how much the value is, whether you get that fair amount or not isn't the real problem. As you mentioned, no matter how much you get you will never find all of the records again. So no amount of money makes up for the loss unless it is significantly higher than the appraised value. Also, take into account the time it would take to find most of them! It is a losing proposition any way you slice it. Get an insurance rider and put some amount on them so you get something if anything should happen. More importantly, listen to them and enjoy them while you have them! I do have one solution that most cannot afford. Build a fireproof secure vault for your collection. Maybe you can dig out an underground bunker music room. That would solve 99% of your issues!
Strickly investment, you would probably need to slab EVERY record. Get a real grading for a piece in your collection. And catalog them. Hindsight would be that you would never be able to listen to them, but have a "real" monetary value, which is also subjective to the grading. Honest answer is hope and pray nothing happens. My record room is a converted laundry room. There are two waterlines that still could feed water in. I live in a climate where pipes sometimes freeze. I'm terrified every winter that I will have a flood. My current discogs median value is about $45K and about 10 years investment.
A couple of questions that you asking while I ask them: - Home owners insurance should cover art at fair market value - You're not going to replace a first edition white album - Wouldn't Discogs be sufficient when you have the house fire? We just had a basement flood and the ask we got from our insurance "How much is it worth\how much did you pay"?
But did you use Discogs value and did they accept it? I kept running into issues of people on the phone who said they needed it professionally appraised and Discogs wasn't a guaranteed metric.
Yup. Amfam approved at as long as we could show a documented value. The problem though is that a lot of policies have a cap on personal loss. You'll get a check for whatever the personal loss is, as long as it makes it to that.
Run of the mill insurers are not going to be good for this. You need a premium insurance provider like Chubb, AIG private client or PURE. They're used to insuring unusual collectables, art, one of a kind autos etc
Great topic! A couple of years back, I also looked into this (I also have a fairly large collection). My first stop was my insurance agent. After some back and forth and researching other areas, it appears it's only covered as personal property. I do have it all cataloged in Discogs and can produce an Excel sheet for them should something catastrophic happen, but there are no promises when it comes to records. Scary.
That's exactly what I'm saying. A lot of people in the comments are going to think they've got it totally figured out, but it feels more like a coin flip.
This is what I do with my instruments - I use the Reverb "My Collection" and export that to a csv for my insurance agent. It's flat; doesn't include sentimental or true value replacement for things that are one-of-a-kind. There's no promises.
I can only talk for myself, here in Austria I can add the collection to the insurance of my house. I have around 5000 records so similar to yours and a collection of that size has mostly a value in the six figures. Her in Austria no problem, specially when you have your collection on Discogs.
So are these "new" records they are selling @ 2x, 3x, the price of a CD any different or better that our old school LP's? Was told years back, "Colored Vinyl" was a fad, & did not wear well like the black vinyl. I will have to say I have been listening to vinyl sourced restorations, & they do have a hollower deeper sound to them if cleaned of pops & clicks.
I got my collection easily insured through my homeowners insurance. There are two ways to do it. One is a blanket value. The issue with this is that if something happens like a flood for example, the insurance company will never pay you the 1:1 amount. The other method, which is the one I use is a valuables rider, I don't remember the exact name. The issue with this is, you have to provide a list of each item and it's value. And this is where Discogs comes in. My insurance accepts the valuation from Discogs. My 5000 piece collection cost $700 a year to insure.
What insurance company do you use? I'd like to think they would use Discogs... but I have yet to hear a story of anyone who's had to do it before. I mean, thankfully not, it's an awful thing to think about, but I'd also like to see what it looks like from a practical standpoint, you know?
Stating the obvious but Discogs values records according to condition so unless you are proving the condition of each and every record, how can you recover the actual value? Did they even ask about this?
@@TooManyRecords I haven't heard anyone have to use it yet either. I use a broker and they told me that if you use the blanket policy, you will get ripped off if something happens -- the insurance company will payout cents on the dollar because there was no way in advance to show condition and value, depending on the type of damage. The collectible rider, same as what is used for jewelry, does require a list of every item, grade, and value -- they do use the values Discogs provides. You just have to have the grade in there. The issue is, they will only cover what is in the list. So, if you buy a lot of records, you have to update it regularly.
@@67Pepper For the collectible rider, you do have to provide the list for each item, condition, and value. They do accept the discogs valuation. But, they only cover what is in the list. If you buy a lot of records, you have to continuously update and send a new one.
Renters insurance asks you to pay a premium based on a dollar amount and that covers you. So if your collection is $30k you pay a set premium for that.😮
I sold a repaired musical instrument that was fine with playability and tone, but outward appearance limited it's "value" to $150. That being said, fools have paid 4-5 times on EBAY and shop Goodwill. with no guarantees. You basically have to document the very best records/most costly and have current sales comps and pics of the exact items on a removable hard drive. How would I replace my signed Fats Domino LP? I couldn't.
Last year I watched a million dollar audio system get parted out and sold at auction for 10% of what the guy paid for it. There is no money in audio for second hand sellers. Just buy what you like and understand your money is gone. If you are lucky you can make a few good trades with friends on the internet.
I have no interest in insurance for my record collection. My concern is when is it time to sell them so my family get good money for them before I pop my clogs 🤣.
I have thought a lot about this, but certainly not this thoroughly! I actively collect and sell, and one truly compliments the other. I use the fluctuation of value and difficulty in insuring records as an excuse to put off accurately cataloging in discogs. Records enter and leave my basement too frequently and I want to actively listen to them. Speaking of basements and their potential to flood - mine never has - thankfully. But it seems if a vinyl record collection is extremely valuable --- monetarily --- that collector is probably wealthy. If so, maybe they could built the equivalent of a panic room or bomb shelter to store the collection? That would be the insurance. Sorry, that's the best I could come up with!
It takes a couple of minutes to value the average record. Have to look at supply/demand, market prices, etc. Discogs does give some useful information in this respect. Point being to get the 'correct' insurance value for 4000 records, unless very common dollar records, would take even an experienced dealer about 100-120 hrs to assess, or to arrive at a reasonable estimate of replacement costs. Insurance companies are unlikely to be interested in the fact 4,000 lost vinyls may cost you 40k to replace, but it would also cost you another 2,000 hrs of time/money to find them again.
40k? His collection must be worth 4-6 times that. I have 2000 albums that would cost 120k to replace. It's a real challenge. I appreciate the sane and helpful suggestions made here.
@@westernartifact580 I have about 10,000Lps that would cost between 80-120k to replace, if I could find them. But to do so would take me about 2000 hrs of my time and travel, postage costs which would be many thousands more. 500 or so I might never find as they are limited, obscure, private press type records, many not of great value, but the types that don't often show up on ebay, discogs, in stores, etc. The average value of your records is 60$? Unusual. I was making the estimate of 40k for 4000 for a more typical collection.
get an appraisal. on the day you get the appraisal document the value against discogs on that day and document it. that will establish a relationship between a professional appraisal and discogs valuation.
I'm curious how one would even go about appraising a record collection... without using Discogs. Also, what makes someone a professional able to appraise? I'm a record store owner, doesn't that mean I could theoretically do an independent appraisal of my own collection? So many variables.
@@TooManyRecords appraisals are always just educated guesses. The insurance companies have to answer that though if they insure someone's records and ask for an appraisal.
Great subject Matt. Just like with everything that has to do with insurance, they know how to collect the fees, but if the time comes to pay... It's too bad that they treat records that way, but it wouldn't be the case with baseball cards and other collectibles. It's like they refuse to accept that records can sell for hundreds of dollars.
I don’t think it’s just record collections. I have a very large comic book collection and getting that insured is also difficult in the US. I was under the impression that the homeowners insurance would take care of me if anything happened, but it’s not as simple as that.
I have mine insured through State Farm. I also take pictures of my records just in case. Who knows if something was to happen if they would actually replace my collection.
@TooManyRecords You would just submit each record one by one. Price it through ebay and discogs and show them proof its selling for that much. It would suck but better than losing everything. That's also why I take a picture of every record. It gives me some kind of proof that I own it. Now would they fight me saying a beat up 80s copy of Zep 2 is the same as an RL so we will give you the 80s price? Probably. You would almost have to submit an expert opinion. I doubt I would get my whole collection back but it would be a start. Insurance is always a hassle.
Make sure your contents is sufficient, read your policy back...how is contents coverage handled? ACV? contents depreciated? Talk to your agent , ask your agent what if's..request your agt contact a claims rep who may explain how a claim regarding collectibles are handled More than likely u will need an outside carrier to "float" your collection
I've had huge collections before. It's (kinda) overrated if you ask me. Eventually, the collection consumes you. You spend more time worrying and stressing over the collection than you do playing the records and enjoying what you've acquired.
This isn't a super hard problem to solve, though not all homeowner's policies will insure things like collectables in a reasonable fashion. Generally covered under "inland marine policies", and you can insure things as scheduled single items or blanket coverage for the entire collection. Stated value of the collection, the insurance company can challenge the valuation you propose if they want. I use Chubb Insurance and have several collections insured as such. My record collection isn't there yet, but likely will be before long...
My concern is if they do challenge it, and what you'd do to fight the challenge. It'd be awful to have a blanket policy for 100k and then they say "prove it" but won't let you use Discogs. It just seems overly complicated still. It'd be nice if this worked no questions asked, but all the variables I mention in the video give me pause.
@@TooManyRecords It might come down to documentation and relationship with your insurer. I know the wine world really well, and all the same challenges can exist, though it's also common (relative term here) for folks to have wine collections valued in hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. The insurance companies profit from insuring those collections and folks use very similar online date bases to Discogs for the valuation and inventory question. For my cellar, I went round after round with a basic homeowners policy, but the insurance companies up the chain are used to dealing with exactly these questions/issues.
One common sentiment I see in the comments is "oh don't worry, just listen to the music man". That's a fair and probably healthier attitude to have, however I don't think that's a fair judgement toward everyone. For some people the collector mindset is potentially greater than the music appreciation mindset. It may be different than your engagement in the record hobby, but that shouldn't dismiss other people's concerns who treat it differently. I understand some people don't fuss over it, but for people who have invested tens of thousands of dollars in their collection this topic is a big deal.
It doesn't even have to be a collector vs. listener mindset. Saying "Hurr Durr It's About the Music Maaaan Chillax" is super dismissive and completely missing the point. You can appreciate records being about listening to the music AND want to protect something you've invested a lot of time and money into.
Filtering ebay listings by sold items shows the most recent value of any record. Discogs is an average over time for all sales. I wish discogs would allow you to define a time range for average sales price.
Maybe start and LLC to sell records (you dont have to sell them) then have a detailed list of all your records and what the estimated value of each... With a particular date n time of estimation... Then you could go as a business to an insurance company and get insurance based on those figures... Of course it would be a monthly or yearly expense. I think it would be doable.
I mean I do own a record store... it just gets a little dicey mixing in my personal collection... even though all of the records are my property technically..
@@Have.An.AmicoDay I think that the bigger issue is what I discussed in the video, regardless. Like I said, my records for my business are insured, but it's a blanket. I shudder to think what would happen if I had to actually enact it. The big issue is the constant fluctuation, records change far more frequently than something like comics or trading cards -- plus the issues others have brought up like conditions (of jackets and of disks)
I would think the #1 problem would be running out of storage space, at which time, get a bigger place or just stop collecting. I have a friend who purchases at least 10 records or more every time he goes to a record store, which is 2-3 times a week. He ran out of space and is now storing his new purchases at his GF’s house. That’s not a solution. That’s a problem. 😂
Literally add it to your homeowners policy. Simple as that. Done. (And yes you have to use the current market value just like anything else). I’ve done it.
I have this same problem with audio gear, but gear is much easier to insure. My problem with gear is that what I have is worth 2.5 times what it was when I bought it new! As for records, I have 825+ vinyl records and 800+ CDs. While most of my CDs are not worth more than $4 or $5 or less, I have around 6 CDs worth from about $70 to $100 each somehow and the first thing I look at is consistency in value on the retail market and "used" market. Those 6 CDs have been at that value for at least 4 years solid! Still don't know why as five of them have been reissued, but my particular copies are way up there in value. It makes zero sense to me. Now as to my vinyl records, I take all valuations with more than a grain of salt. I look at the middle or average price on discogs for a rough guide to valuation for insurance. In reality though I don't care what the proposed value is of my records and CDs and I don't bother looking much. Why? When you are buying your record, say it is $4 or $5 or $10 or $20 at the time. Then you see a month later or three months later that your $4 record is now around $20 or $40 at dealers, shops, but on Discogs it may be worth $5 or $2 or $1. So how do you value that? Answer: You don't. Say your record you paid $4 for is worth close to $40 everywhere you look, then you decide you want to sell it. How much do you think you will get for it, selling it to another collector or what have you? Answer: You would be lucky to get $4 for it on the best day. You'll likely end up having to let it go for $2. It gets worse as the artificial value goes up. Yes, values on records are artificial. The only "collector's records" that exist are ones with extremely limited runs of say less than 1,000 units (Units are multiples of records, not each record), not in line for any reissues and maybe the historic very first pressing of a 50+ year old record in the literal sense. Those may be worth something of significance monetarily. As for first runs of average to large quantity or "promo" copies or previously owned by someone famous and the like, those have no more than original face value monetarily, $4, $6, $10 whatever it was at the time it came out. Remember we are talking strictly monetary value, in my opinion, records can have a much higher value than monetary. So looking at my collection for example: If I believed what I see price-wise at dealers and some on discogs, Ebay, etc. I would be sitting one around $1,000,000+! It is absolutely absurd, what I see! For example, my Dylan records of which I have around 12 plus the Biograph box set are 1980's reissues. I bought them all new for around $4 each at that time in a record store. The Biograph set was around $10 new. Sonically, they are fine, nothing wrong with them. (The Biograph box set is astoundingly good sonically). I now see prices from $20 to close to $40 for the exact same reissue pressings I have from the 80s and some not in as good of condition! I have not seen many of the Biograph sets, so I don't know what they are at. There is no way my Dylan records are worth that! They are worth $4 each at best on a lucky day! Also record prices fluctuate wildly, as in almost by the day. I have a Mannheim Steamroller box set from the 80s (That blue velvet job with the silver medallion in the middle), about 50,000 were made distributed nationwide. Mine is in the 30,000 number range. Mine is new condition, got it sealed, but took off the wrap, because in my mind there is no reason to leave it sealed. I paid $40 plus $6 shipping for what I thought was a VG copy. When it arrived it was NOS (new old stock), originally sealed! It is the first and last record I ever bought on Discogs. I was tracking it for a while, it was hovering around $200 to $250. Then I found a seller selling his copy for around $40 VG condition so I bought it. The very next week this box set in VG condition (mine was new) were going for around $46. Three weeks later, those same ones were $240 then down to $230 a few weeks later, then down to around $50 a few weeks later, then back to $250 a few weeks later and on and on. What is it worth right now? I have not looked. (I have not played any of the records in it, I have the original standard pressings I play). I spoke with my insurance company and this is likely similar across the board, they said they will give me $2500 coverage for both vinyl record and CD collections combined covered under the whole policy, so that's $1250 each collection. If I want more coverage I have to have them appraised and do a rider, which also means a higher premium. How much is my collection worth right now? I will assume $4 per record, so about $3280. It could be more than that or more towards about $1700. To have the records appraised would cost me from $30 to $100 per record, because I would have to have the appraisal receipts drawn up. So we are talking about $24,000 to $70,000+ to have my collection appraised! No thanks. The problem is that no amount of money can replace the true value of ones records and can't replace any that are out of print, etc.
...Oh, insurance. Hey, I'll store that Drukqs behind you in my erm...record storage safe room...free of charge, that'll be a weight off your mind?..I _promise_ I won't play it......often ;-)
I have thousands of rare and difficult to replace L.P.S collected over six decades. I have no interest in insuring them. Classical and easy listening/lounge from the 1950s-60s aren't exactly collecting gold.
So much drama in buying records. Back in the day, we just bought the new Deep Purple album, took it to a friend's basement, cracked a beer, smoked a bowl and listened to the music. We didn't worry about various "problems" of record collecting. RUclips "content creators" create a lot of drama in something that is so simple. Just buy what you like, don't worry about the monetary value of your record, and enjoy the music.
This seems like a simple dismissal of something that is actually a valid issue for a lot of people, but okay! :)
If you know the value of your “collection” you are an investment speculator, put on that deep purple record without checking to see if you are devaluing it by enjoying it
@greyhounddude6112. Exactly. Way back then, vinyl records were much cheaper. This Vinyl Revival Community is a bit pretentious and overblown. I'm with you 100% (me: 68 years of age)
@@joelfrombethlehem - I'll give you a more substantial response as soon as I figure out whether I should buy the Fleetwood Mac Rumors album mastered by Kevin Gray for $35 or hold out for the two record, 45 RPM edition mastered by Bernie Grundman for $65 or save up for the UHQR edition for $150, in which case I'll have to add a special rider to my homeowners insurance policy to cover that record. Or should I just keep the $4 original, slightly beat copy of Rumors that I found at the thrift store a couple of months ago. Decisions, decisions. And all this time I thought my CD copy sounded good enough. But the vinyl people on RUclips told me I was wrong and that it wasn't "warm" enough.
It must be nice to come from a place of privilege where losing something you've put a significant amount of time and money into wouldn't be a problem if it all burned down in a fire or got stolen. What a crappy response to this video. Shame on you.
Your 4,000 records aren’t worth the median price of each one summed together for the same reason you can’t take 4,000 records to an appraiser the way you can appraise a diamond ring. You’ll have to work hard for that median price and create 4,000 separate listings, pay for storage, order 4,000 mailers, make 4,000 trips to the post office, etc etc and the whole process might take you several years if you want that median price for each record. In the end, not all of them will sell so easily. But that diamond ring is super easy to sell and the value you get is obtainable in one nice tidy transaction. The Discogs median price for a large collection requires a huge investment of sweat equity.
Bingo.
Yeah, it's all subjective. Collections in general aren't worth much. If I died tomorrow my wife would probably just put my album collection on the curb.
Yes, I've asked my insurance company and I have mentioned Discogs... I've also filmed my collection, to show the amount of records (~10k today).
The best I can do is to conservatively grade everything, add notes regarding autographed items etc and if the day come (God forbid) my place burns to the ground, that list is helpful in some way purely because there is no reasonable other way to value the lot.
But primarily it's not about the money. I would never have the time to replace them and I also have rare one-offs etc. I play my records, I enjoy the music and it contains memories.
Ya know this grading has become an industry in itself. Could only see it for coinage, It had taken all the fun out of sports trading cards, now even gone to die cast vehicles & records. I always transferred records to a heavy sleeve, what thanks, pennies on the dollar in trades.🙄
I misread the title and thought it was how record collectors look weird
LMAO this actually made me laugh
Same- I thought Matt was riffing on middle aged white dudes
Weird brain trick I read it the same way as y’all
I bought my first lp in 1970, Abbey Road. I was a few months from my 12th birthday. I have owned thousands of records. I have about 500 now. Any collector would drool over it. I can never replace it. Money would not be a factor if something happened. The time invested can not be replaced. What's important is the enjoyment it has brought to my life. In my teen years before I became a collector it saved me. It has been the second most important part of my life. Jack Russell's are number one. I make an effort not to dwell long on the danger it (the collection) may be in. Money can not replace it and would not comfort me if something happened to the collection. Spend the money for insurance on more records and play them. This is in no way a dismissal of someone else's concern. It's just my opinion.
I'm 54 , and more than half of my life is over! Hopefully I can keep them long enough to pass them down to others who would enjoy them as I have!😊
That's the trick. 😊
I had a house fire a couple years back and lost about 200 of my 1700 records. LUCKILY, I had an amazing claim adjuster and he saw how many I lost and didn’t question it when I had to rebuy them all. I had everything documented with Discogs, but some of the albums were really rare and I wasn’t able to find a replacement in the year I had, so he allowed me to buy other albums with the same value. I will say the insurance company was AAA. I would never use anyone else, even if they are a little more expensive than others. They were a lifesaver and made a horrible situation a little less stressful.
Who is it?
@@TooManyRecordsAAA home owners policy with a rider. Do a spreadsheet of inventory from your Discogs. True it’s a static value, but it’s something.
Wow this is great info. I have Aaa home insurance, nice to know they’ll help w the cost of rebuying
You've definitely hit the nail on the head. I've encountered the issue when I asked my insurance agent about covering other collectibles i.e. gig posters and such. When I mentioned art prints, their first response was "Oh, like Warhol prints?" to which I laughed at because I do not own artwork worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then immediately felt dumb explaining gig posters and such. When they asked how the value is determined and I explained stuff like ebay, Expresso Beans, etc, I could feel through the phone them laughing at how not valid those sources are. It's really defeating.
Even if you wanted retail value of a collection, insurance companies seem to expect you to retain receipts. Because we all keep every receipt from every record we have ever purchased. Not to mention we all know how most LSD receipts are very detailed on each line item. /s
Yep... it feels like an antiquated industry stuck in their ways
OMG! They are priceless! ALL the money in the world couldn't replace them! It would be IMPOSSIBLE to replace them!
My biggest worry is when I die my wife sells my collection for what I told her I paid for it.
I’ll get my coat.
LOL
Or you can get a divorce right now.
😂
Hahaha, regonizable, hilarious 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My biggest problem is that everybody I buy records from gets to retire early.
So, we met with our insurance company yesterday. I specifically thought of this video and asked about record policies. The response I got from a major insurance company was that they can contact specialty companies to ensure the collections. The suggestion that our agent had was to take photos of your collection. In the heat of the moment, it's really hard to remember what you had, and be able to make a guess as to how to replace it.
The other thing was that personal property recovery wasn't enough. When we looked at our numbers, the amount that we were insured for it needed to be increased just to cover what we had. And then when we talked about collectibles, our agent suggested that we we open a policy with a underwriter for records. I'll find out who that is when we get the quote, and post it here
Think that will raise your premium much?
This issue has been on my mind for the past 10-20 years as my collection has grown to well over 10,000 items (approx value £100k maybe). I don’t own many particularly high value items (nothing over about £300) so I’d be interested to hear from any UK collectors who have managed to get insurance cover for similar size collections at a reasonable price. Who did you use and what did you pay?
You can add an insurance rider to your policy to cover collectibles ( A rider is an insurance policy provision that adds benefits to or amends the terms of a basic insurance policy to provide additional coverage.), however...not every insurance company offers this option. My insurance company is one of those. I maxed my home coverage out to cover as much of my collection they would allow. I wish there were more options.
Totally, I know that's an option -- the question is, will they accept Discogs as a means to assess? That's the X factor this whole video is based around.
@TooManyRecords my insurance company wasn't interested in a database to prove value. Rather just maximize coverage to be able to buy back the important stuff. They never want to cover "current value". A friend of mine had a trading card shop. He kept thousands of bulk (low value) cards in his shop at all times. It was almost a Hazzard. He did it to cover the stupid expensive cards because insurance wouldn't replace a piece of cardboard at over a thousand dollars, but they'll add a dollar value to each of those bulk cards...hopefully giving him enough $ to cover the expensive ones should something happen.
Fire is the word that strikes fear into our collective hearts.
Hard core collectors commonly have too many to steal.
I have both a record collection and a video game collection. I was able to get insurance on the video games by stating a rider value for the entire collection. But I had to give a detailed inventory serial numbers; conditions and I had to state a value on each item. They also came in and took a tour and pictures of the games. Long as I did not state a crazy value they were fine with it. So if the house is a total loss; what ever the upper value is for the games will be covered up to what I insured my collection for. What the policy does not cover is deterioration from age. So if a game breaks, I can't turn that in; if I drop it down a flight of steps thats on me. But if I had a water pipe break, fire ect. I am covered. But you are paying that premium; I have been told if I want to assign dollar amounts to my record collection I could add that to the same policy in a separate collection. I am going through Erie insurance for this coverage and have had this coverage for about 16 years. This is above and beyond my home owners and car insurance ect... I also have taken similar insurance out on some of my more expensive stereo gear. Give those folks a call. I don't put a lot of stock in apraisals personally.
I looked into this and the only insurance company that would even consider covering my record collection charged so much per year for the policy that I decided that if the absolute worst happens and it goes up in smoke literally I will walk away from all my hobbies. This sound dramatic but honestly at this point I think the only way I will ever stop collecting is if something like this happens and it will be a sign to just stop because if something that bad happens then I need to focus on myself and my family and let possessions just not be important.
I've had thoughts like this too... but treat them like intrusive thoughts.
Good to see what others may be doing or for someone to start a new business venture if something doesn’t already exist.
I have a policy through State Farm specifically for vinyl records that is 100% replacement for my collection (records only as cds and cassette only go under homeowners) . I had to make a spreadsheet with the value of each album listed. Every two years I send in an updated list and if I want to increase the value covered they adjust the premium It is a one time only policy. So let's say I stepped on a grail worth $500 and broke it. I could file a claim, get the $500, but then the policy is done and over and can never be issued again. I originally got it about 14 -15 years ago but I'm sure if State Farm is still offering new policies or not. I pay about $40/ month for it.
So, I was a truck mechanic for 20 years. I had my tools insured through my homeowners policy. Sure, the shop had insurance and would cover them to a point but, I had to inventory every tool I had ever bought. It was easy because I could have the Snap-On and Mac dealer print me off lists and I have those lists and receipts in a big fire proof box. Same with my records and cd's. I have about 75% of my physical media cataloged via Discogs now and I also have a note book of every record and cd I have ever bought. It's tedious and overwhelming at times but, if and when something happens, you'll be glad you have everything on record.
I think the tricky thing Matt is alluding to the current value of the records. An insurance company may pay out what you paid for a particular record, but that would not be the same cost to replace that exact record in the future if something occurred. So you might be technically covered for what you paid, but not what it's worth to replace.
@@PopcornandVinyl Exactly
You're American. Everything revolves around money. I wouldn't give 50c for a pristine LP I wouldn't play. Value and worth are two different things. Play the damn things and be moved by the music. That my friend, is priceless
I didn't watch the vid in it's entirety, but I can tell you my homeowners coverage covers my record collection. I specifically disclosed to my agent that I needed $XX,XXX dollars in REPLACEMENT value for my LP's. We upped my personal property coverage to cover that value (plus a small % for appreciation) rather than ID my LP's as a collection - which takes on a different connotation with some insurance companies I talked to. Therefore it's personal property and it's covered at replacement value. That way I can re-buy the collection along with clothes, furniture, etc. in the event of a catastrophe - and if I want to spend $500 on that AB1006 copy of Aja, I can, with the understanding that I have a finite amount of money to spend on all the other things I need to replace.
I don’t have anything super valuable but lots of collectors have some crazy valuable records and posters, maybe just a few items would be great to get it appraised . I did find this encouraging to finish putting my collection on discogs
Thank you for making this video. We hope you’ll make a follow up regarding this topic.-Chris & Beth🎧
My experience is that insurance companies do whatever they can to get out of paying for anything… but State Farm said I can use Discogs but for any record over $1000 I need a receipt or appraisal. It’s was then over $100 a month extra.
I'll be honest, I have a very modest collection (450 LP's & 1200 CD's) which I absolutely love but to be honest if something catastrophic happened (fire, flood etc.) my collection would be the least of my worries & you know what - - when the time is right - - I'll enjoy building it back up.
I was with you until you said "building it back up". Would probably be a load off my back to lose my music collection, well, minus the CDs because they take up so much less space.
@MickSupper I get as much pleasure out of finding & collecting so yea I would follow the cycle again.... 😉
I have about 600 to 700 record LPs and a couple hundred 45s. Most are pretty common titles, none catalogued with Discogs... I just take my losses should it ever come to that. I am old, I enjoyed my records, tapes and CDs over time and much of the music is also in the cloud. I understand the sentimental value connected with "a record", but in the end if it is gone, it's gone. The music itself still lives on.... somewhere.
There was some discussion in the VC about 10 years ago about insurance...some collectors claimed that State Farm had a specific policy that covered records.
A comment I found said they had called State Farm and they said you needed "to have proof of ownership, a catalog of what you
own and value from a reliable source of each record, plus a
description of the condition of each"
I don't know...again, this was a decade ago and haven't looked into it myself.
Re ups and downs of individual records, that does not matter, it is a red herring. The aggregate will be more stable. Basic statistics.
"Protect value of investment" You have the wrong mindset. If you consider your collection an investment, you are in it for the wrong reason. There is also the question of sum of sales prices of each record (= discogs value) vs aggregate value (wholesale guesstimated 20% of that; as a used record buyer you know about that). That's likely also why insurance companies are unlikely to go by discogs prices.
Bottom line, don't worry about it, enjoy your records. If disaster should strike, take a deep breath, get whatever you can, and move on.
Hey Matt that’s food for thought. Am going to be checking my policy to see what cover I may or not have. Cheers! 🙏
Keep us posted
"Value" is a concept that is wholly subjective when it comes to collections of records, comic books et cetera, because their value is very singular. The value of silverware, for example, is very easy to quantify, for example, because it is made of a precious metal, and its value can be decided easily. A stack of paper or pieces of plastic/vinyl/whatever are far more difficult to distinguish. That's why I have always said that a record/comic book/baseball card is worth precisely as much as someone is willing to pay for it -- and that might not always be listed on a piece of paper or an online price guide. For that reason, I believe such "values" are just the easy points to begin negotiations.
One thing that would make Discogs more reliable with oricing is having them do away with only basing the value off of the last 10 sales. Its not a huge fix, but definitely a step in the right direction.
This subject stresses me out every time I look at my collection 😅
Records should bring you joy. Not stress.
I love movies as well and theres a similar issue i've heard from people in the physical media space there, were it's just hard to get people to take the value of a collection seriously.
Because it is all relative. For example, you can ask the same price an album has sold for and 95% you will not be able to sell it for that price. It's not like you are insuring common household items or Picassos.
My collection on Discogs is currently around $99,000 medium value. I have many LPs in mint condition. I also haven't finished cataloging all my LPs and CDs. Tried to get insurance a few years back and was told that my homeowners covers $2500 and that's it. Not sure I'm going to sweat it at this point as I do keep the records and CDs in living spaces and off floors. Great topic to have to consider though!
I live on the edge and have never had home or property insurance. No health insurance either. Something I've been wondering for a long time: How does Discogs define what an album is worth? Look up pretty much any record and it only shows maybe 10 sold listings that span a couple of years. That's hardly enough to gauge what an album is worth. I've sold music on Ebay, and I know that what some things have sold for does not make it worth that. Pretty much every time I have posted albums on Ebay for sale, they sell for less than what they historically have gone for, (and I'm taking about within weeks.) and that's with good pictures.
Anyone who’s read a standard homeowners insurance policy will see personal possessions or collections are essentially not covered. They cover next to nothing.
I collect, as well as sell records. I know if i sold my entire collection at once, i would get nowhere its piece-by-piece value. That's part of the equation I'm surprised you didnt mention. How can you approach replacement value realistically? Did some of it get damaged?, some survived, were the ones that survived, the most valuable? I got a lot of my collection in the 90s, when people were just giving away amazing stuff, and back then, the stuff was still new enough to be in primo condition. I really didnt pay a lot, but now they're worth a lot. The past 10 years of buying have been much more expensive
I have decent record collection---nothing too special but my own collection (LPs, 45s and 12" singles) that I purchased with my hard earned money as a kid and young adult. I also have my parent's albums from the 60s and early 70s. During COVID, I was home bound so I managed to categorize and alphabetize everything as well as get new sleeves and covers. I've always taken good care of my stuff (including hifi gear) and they all still sound great, even with pops and crackles. Take care of your stuff and it will last a long, long time. I don't really worry about the worth because I'm not planning on selling any of it. My collections have emotional and sentimental worth. Same goes for my CDs.
Collectibles Insurance Services told me they write up policies every week on record collections on the collector and dealer side. They sales rep told me that they would go with discogs median up front. If there was a claim they would look for the value at the time to see if things went up or down. i do think it would be beneficial to talk to somebody on the claims side for verification. I see a few other collectible instance companies out there and they all say you need to keep a detailed inventory.
Worth looking into, but I still think that it's not a surefire system with the way things are, you know? The points I made in the video still stand.
@@TooManyRecordswell they did say up front that they would go with the discogs median for the collection and to keep an inventory so discogs is recognized which seemed to be a primary concern of yours. it. also is specifically geared towards collectibles and lists record collections as things they cover and they write up policies for both collectors and dealers. it’s about as surefire as insurance gets - sometimes people don’t get exactly what their car is worth.
No insurance company is going to go through a list of 10,000 records and look up the current value on Discogs. lol
Obviously, records are not the only collectors item out there. Id' assume many other items are in this boat as well. The one thing that comes to mind that is NOT in this boat are trading cards and sports memorabilia. Many official collectors items in those categories are professionally/officially graded by someone and in some cases even certifications of authenticity are provided. I would think at that point that it's essentially like a home value assessment. If assessors says it's worth $400k, then insurance covers it at that value.
Which means maybe the first step is creating a major network of record collectors/physical music experts to come up with an official 'record collection value assessment' system for insurance purposes.
Idk, just a thought
See, Slabbing records is a move in that direction, but I personally do NOT like it... there's actually a video next week where I discuss this...
@@TooManyRecords yea it makes me feel a bit icky. But like you mentioned, once you're long-time collector with a decent sized collection, you're kinda in a catch-22 with protecting your investment vs still having a love for it.
@@TooManyRecords Everything is being slabbed these days because the people that grade them make good money. Even VHS tapes are slabbed. LOL
Also noticed you mention you own a record store. Is that covered with some sort of finished stock and inventory insurance? I wonder if there’s a way to couple your personal collection with that insurance since each record in your personal collection is something you might consider hypothetically selling in your store? I’m just guessing you must have some insurance for the records in the store?
If you want a record collection appraised, that is one of the things that Jerry Osborne does. He is the recognized publisher of industry-recognized record price guides. If you have your collection(s) inventoried, keeping your inventoried records up to date and saved digitally, with current up-to-date widely recognized price guides should satisfy any insurance companies. I used to see them regularly at different collectables shows, there were insurance companies who would insure almost anything.
There's far too many records out there and coming out every day to use any other price guide besides Discogs.
@@TooManyRecords Discogs isn't some religious text.
@@TooManyRecordsyeah, because Discogs is completely accurate and fair and everyone using it as a guide for pricing is completely without greed and accurately grades their own album covers and vinyl.
Maybe there's some idea around creating a collective pool of money that we buy into and if nothing happens at the end of the year you get a % back of what you put in. Maybe we just need to start a better insurance company model :D
The old hippy dude who runs my local record store mentioned this to me years ago and suggested keeping any and all receipts from each record so at the very least I can get what I paid for them in the event they where lost in a fire or something.
Comic books and toys can be insured. Strange that records can't be appraised
I still don't know how they can sell a vinyl album at retail for 25-35 bucks, when these go for a quarter at garage sales? 🤔
When I look at those cabinets, all I can think about is how to digitize them without the pops clicks (even on good condition, static buildup). I listened to a couple albums last night with headphones, I just prefer the ease of the CD.
Just go away
@@westernartifact580 🤣
No matter how much the value is, whether you get that fair amount or not isn't the real problem. As you mentioned, no matter how much you get you will never find all of the records again. So no amount of money makes up for the loss unless it is significantly higher than the appraised value. Also, take into account the time it would take to find most of them! It is a losing proposition any way you slice it. Get an insurance rider and put some amount on them so you get something if anything should happen. More importantly, listen to them and enjoy them while you have them! I do have one solution that most cannot afford. Build a fireproof secure vault for your collection. Maybe you can dig out an underground bunker music room. That would solve 99% of your issues!
Underground bunker. On it.
@@TooManyRecordsI’m not doubting you.
Lmao YES I'm out to the backyard to start digging mine now😁🙏just kidding but yes if one had that kind of cash, it would be done.
Strickly investment, you would probably need to slab EVERY record. Get a real grading for a piece in your collection. And catalog them.
Hindsight would be that you would never be able to listen to them, but have a "real" monetary value, which is also subjective to the grading.
Honest answer is hope and pray nothing happens. My record room is a converted laundry room. There are two waterlines that still could feed water in. I live in a climate where pipes sometimes freeze. I'm terrified every winter that I will have a flood. My current discogs median value is about $45K and about 10 years investment.
A couple of questions that you asking while I ask them:
- Home owners insurance should cover art at fair market value
- You're not going to replace a first edition white album
- Wouldn't Discogs be sufficient when you have the house fire?
We just had a basement flood and the ask we got from our insurance "How much is it worth\how much did you pay"?
You also have a ceiling, in alot of policies of personal loss. e.g. a lost basement gets you $100 to replace your possessions.
But did you use Discogs value and did they accept it? I kept running into issues of people on the phone who said they needed it professionally appraised and Discogs wasn't a guaranteed metric.
Yup. Amfam approved at as long as we could show a documented value. The problem though is that a lot of policies have a cap on personal loss. You'll get a check for whatever the personal loss is, as long as it makes it to that.
@@TooManyRecords Because Discogs ISN'T a guaranteed metric. Means little to nothing really.
Yes but it's the best we have.
Run of the mill insurers are not going to be good for this. You need a premium insurance provider like Chubb, AIG private client or PURE. They're used to insuring unusual collectables, art, one of a kind autos etc
The value of a record also depends on what condition it is in.
I checked with my homeowners insurance a few years ago…I was told they couldn’t help. It would just be included in “contents.”
That's frustrating.
Great topic! A couple of years back, I also looked into this (I also have a fairly large collection). My first stop was my insurance agent. After some back and forth and researching other areas, it appears it's only covered as personal property. I do have it all cataloged in Discogs and can produce an Excel sheet for them should something catastrophic happen, but there are no promises when it comes to records. Scary.
That's exactly what I'm saying. A lot of people in the comments are going to think they've got it totally figured out, but it feels more like a coin flip.
@@TooManyRecords Thanks for posting this 🍺
This is what I do with my instruments - I use the Reverb "My Collection" and export that to a csv for my insurance agent. It's flat; doesn't include sentimental or true value replacement for things that are one-of-a-kind. There's no promises.
That piece of plywood you're knocking on....how much is it on Discogs?
I can only talk for myself, here in Austria I can add the collection to the insurance of my house. I have around 5000 records so similar to yours and a collection of that size has mostly a value in the six figures. Her in Austria no problem, specially when you have your collection on Discogs.
I have a firebox 😂basically my very few albums and yes 45 singles that are actually worth money are in a box ready to grab just in case
So are these "new" records they are selling @ 2x, 3x, the price of a CD any different or better that our old school LP's? Was told years back, "Colored Vinyl" was a fad, & did not wear well like the black vinyl.
I will have to say I have been listening to vinyl sourced restorations, & they do have a hollower deeper sound to them if cleaned of pops & clicks.
For the first seven minutes of this video I was sure you were gonna try to sell me something so glad i was wrong
Couldn't be me!!
Made the mistake of watching at midnight, which resulted in my dog disliking the knocking & total chaos ensuing.
LOL oh my god why did this make me laugh I'm so sorry
@@TooManyRecords it was quite entertaining, but did detract from your point (which I agree with).
Insurance? What’s that?
I got my collection easily insured through my homeowners insurance. There are two ways to do it. One is a blanket value. The issue with this is that if something happens like a flood for example, the insurance company will never pay you the 1:1 amount. The other method, which is the one I use is a valuables rider, I don't remember the exact name. The issue with this is, you have to provide a list of each item and it's value. And this is where Discogs comes in. My insurance accepts the valuation from Discogs. My 5000 piece collection cost $700 a year to insure.
What insurance company do you use? I'd like to think they would use Discogs... but I have yet to hear a story of anyone who's had to do it before. I mean, thankfully not, it's an awful thing to think about, but I'd also like to see what it looks like from a practical standpoint, you know?
Stating the obvious but Discogs values records according to condition so unless you are proving the condition of each and every record, how can you recover the actual value? Did they even ask about this?
@@TooManyRecords I haven't heard anyone have to use it yet either. I use a broker and they told me that if you use the blanket policy, you will get ripped off if something happens -- the insurance company will payout cents on the dollar because there was no way in advance to show condition and value, depending on the type of damage. The collectible rider, same as what is used for jewelry, does require a list of every item, grade, and value -- they do use the values Discogs provides. You just have to have the grade in there. The issue is, they will only cover what is in the list. So, if you buy a lot of records, you have to update it regularly.
@@67Pepper For the collectible rider, you do have to provide the list for each item, condition, and value. They do accept the discogs valuation. But, they only cover what is in the list. If you buy a lot of records, you have to continuously update and send a new one.
Renters insurance asks you to pay a premium based on a dollar amount and that covers you. So if your collection is $30k you pay a set premium for that.😮
I sold a repaired musical instrument that was fine with playability and tone, but outward appearance limited it's "value" to $150. That being said, fools have paid 4-5 times on EBAY and shop Goodwill. with no guarantees. You basically have to document the very best records/most costly and have current sales comps and pics of the exact items on a removable hard drive. How would I replace my signed Fats Domino LP? I couldn't.
Last year I watched a million dollar audio system get parted out and sold at auction for 10% of what the guy paid for it. There is no money in audio for second hand sellers. Just buy what you like and understand your money is gone. If you are lucky you can make a few good trades with friends on the internet.
I have no interest in insurance for my record collection. My concern is when is it time to sell them so my family get good money for them before I pop my clogs 🤣.
As always, such great content.
cheers :)
I have thought a lot about this, but certainly not this thoroughly! I actively collect and sell, and one truly compliments the other. I use the fluctuation of value and difficulty in insuring records as an excuse to put off accurately cataloging in discogs. Records enter and leave my basement too frequently and I want to actively listen to them. Speaking of basements and their potential to flood - mine never has - thankfully. But it seems if a vinyl record collection is extremely valuable --- monetarily --- that collector is probably wealthy. If so, maybe they could built the equivalent of a panic room or bomb shelter to store the collection? That would be the insurance. Sorry, that's the best I could come up with!
Its good to know what you own and have lustening parties or a psrtnet who enjoys your passion.
It takes a couple of minutes to value the average record. Have to look at supply/demand, market prices, etc. Discogs does give some useful information in this respect. Point being to get the 'correct' insurance value for 4000 records, unless very common dollar records, would take even an experienced dealer about 100-120 hrs to assess, or to arrive at a reasonable estimate of replacement costs. Insurance companies are unlikely to be interested in the fact 4,000 lost vinyls may cost you 40k to replace, but it would also cost you another 2,000 hrs of time/money to find them again.
40k? His collection must be worth 4-6 times that. I have 2000 albums that would cost 120k to replace. It's a real challenge. I appreciate the sane and helpful suggestions made here.
@@westernartifact580 I have about 10,000Lps that would cost between 80-120k to replace, if I could find them. But to do so would take me about 2000 hrs of my time and travel, postage costs which would be many thousands more. 500 or so I might never find as they are limited, obscure, private press type records, many not of great value, but the types that don't often show up on ebay, discogs, in stores, etc.
The average value of your records is 60$? Unusual. I was making the estimate of 40k for 4000 for a more typical collection.
get an appraisal. on the day you get the appraisal document the value against discogs on that day and document it. that will establish a relationship between a professional appraisal and discogs valuation.
I'm curious how one would even go about appraising a record collection... without using Discogs. Also, what makes someone a professional able to appraise? I'm a record store owner, doesn't that mean I could theoretically do an independent appraisal of my own collection? So many variables.
@@TooManyRecords appraisals are always just educated guesses. The insurance companies have to answer that though if they insure someone's records and ask for an appraisal.
Feels nice to be on the podium.
participation trophy
Great subject Matt. Just like with everything that has to do with insurance, they know how to collect the fees, but if the time comes to pay... It's too bad that they treat records that way, but it wouldn't be the case with baseball cards and other collectibles. It's like they refuse to accept that records can sell for hundreds of dollars.
I don’t think it’s just record collections. I have a very large comic book collection and getting that insured is also difficult in the US. I was under the impression that the homeowners insurance would take care of me if anything happened, but it’s not as simple as that.
I have mine insured through State Farm. I also take pictures of my records just in case. Who knows if something was to happen if they would actually replace my collection.
That's the big issue that we're discussing. You have it insured, but what does that mean when push comes to shove?
@TooManyRecords Get a damaged album, turn it into insurance, and find out.
@@adamhunt4462 I think one record is a lot easier to figure out than a whole collection though.
@TooManyRecords You would just submit each record one by one. Price it through ebay and discogs and show them proof its selling for that much. It would suck but better than losing everything. That's also why I take a picture of every record. It gives me some kind of proof that I own it. Now would they fight me saying a beat up 80s copy of Zep 2 is the same as an RL so we will give you the 80s price? Probably. You would almost have to submit an expert opinion. I doubt I would get my whole collection back but it would be a start. Insurance is always a hassle.
Took pictures of everything before a hurricane, insurance didn't care or want to see them.
Unfortunately, it's only worth money when you sell them, like any collectible.
This might be the crux of the issue...
Make sure your contents is sufficient, read your policy back...how is contents coverage handled? ACV? contents depreciated? Talk to your agent , ask your agent what if's..request your agt contact a claims rep who may explain how a claim regarding collectibles are handled
More than likely u will need an outside carrier to "float" your collection
What happens if some collector dies and the collection goes to his relatives etc...either they keep it or they sell items they don't care for.
I wouldnt even want a record collection bigger than, say, $50k.
sometimes it just happens
I would
I've had huge collections before. It's (kinda) overrated if you ask me. Eventually, the collection consumes you. You spend more time worrying and stressing over the collection than you do playing the records and enjoying what you've acquired.
This isn't a super hard problem to solve, though not all homeowner's policies will insure things like collectables in a reasonable fashion. Generally covered under "inland marine policies", and you can insure things as scheduled single items or blanket coverage for the entire collection. Stated value of the collection, the insurance company can challenge the valuation you propose if they want. I use Chubb Insurance and have several collections insured as such. My record collection isn't there yet, but likely will be before long...
My concern is if they do challenge it, and what you'd do to fight the challenge. It'd be awful to have a blanket policy for 100k and then they say "prove it" but won't let you use Discogs. It just seems overly complicated still. It'd be nice if this worked no questions asked, but all the variables I mention in the video give me pause.
@@TooManyRecords It might come down to documentation and relationship with your insurer. I know the wine world really well, and all the same challenges can exist, though it's also common (relative term here) for folks to have wine collections valued in hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. The insurance companies profit from insuring those collections and folks use very similar online date bases to Discogs for the valuation and inventory question.
For my cellar, I went round after round with a basic homeowners policy, but the insurance companies up the chain are used to dealing with exactly these questions/issues.
One common sentiment I see in the comments is "oh don't worry, just listen to the music man". That's a fair and probably healthier attitude to have, however I don't think that's a fair judgement toward everyone. For some people the collector mindset is potentially greater than the music appreciation mindset. It may be different than your engagement in the record hobby, but that shouldn't dismiss other people's concerns who treat it differently. I understand some people don't fuss over it, but for people who have invested tens of thousands of dollars in their collection this topic is a big deal.
It doesn't even have to be a collector vs. listener mindset. Saying "Hurr Durr It's About the Music Maaaan Chillax" is super dismissive and completely missing the point. You can appreciate records being about listening to the music AND want to protect something you've invested a lot of time and money into.
@@robertworkman7135 Absolutely, doesn't have to be one or the other.,
@@robertworkman7135 Exactly. Feels so dismissive.
Filtering ebay listings by sold items shows the most recent value of any record. Discogs is an average over time for all sales. I wish discogs would allow you to define a time range for average sales price.
HOW MUCH IS A REMBRANT WORTH?
Maybe start and LLC to sell records (you dont have to sell them) then have a detailed list of all your records and what the estimated value of each... With a particular date n time of estimation... Then you could go as a business to an insurance company and get insurance based on those figures... Of course it would be a monthly or yearly expense. I think it would be doable.
I mean I do own a record store... it just gets a little dicey mixing in my personal collection... even though all of the records are my property technically..
@@TooManyRecords make a separate LLC for your personals...
@@Have.An.AmicoDay I think that the bigger issue is what I discussed in the video, regardless. Like I said, my records for my business are insured, but it's a blanket. I shudder to think what would happen if I had to actually enact it. The big issue is the constant fluctuation, records change far more frequently than something like comics or trading cards -- plus the issues others have brought up like conditions (of jackets and of disks)
I would think the #1 problem would be running out of storage space, at which time, get a bigger place or just stop collecting. I have a friend who purchases at least 10 records or more every time he goes to a record store, which is 2-3 times a week. He ran out of space and is now storing his new purchases at his GF’s house. That’s not a solution. That’s a problem. 😂
What I find even more crazy is people that buy at that rate and then once a year do a purge. Unless it's purging and making a profit, it's insanity.
@@MickSupper This dude doesn’t purge. He just CONSUMES.
Can't you insure your collection for whatever price you want? I don't see a problem insure it for way more than you think it's worth.
This is not specific to records. My boyfriend collects comic books and it’s a similar issue. Collecting is a risky sport.
Biggest issue is the Heat .
Just stash your records anywhere and everywhere
I’m not sure but I don’t think I can insure my sports cards either
You should open a vinyl record insurance company
I find they are really not worth all that much, these get sold at thrift stores & garage sales for < $1 (& people want them for even less.)
Go away
Literally add it to your homeowners policy. Simple as that. Done. (And yes you have to use the current market value just like anything else). I’ve done it.
Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video
I have this same problem with audio gear, but gear is much easier to insure. My problem with gear is that what I have is worth 2.5 times what it was when I bought it new!
As for records, I have 825+ vinyl records and 800+ CDs. While most of my CDs are not worth more than $4 or $5 or less, I have around 6 CDs worth from about $70 to $100 each somehow and the first thing I look at is consistency in value on the retail market and "used" market. Those 6 CDs have been at that value for at least 4 years solid! Still don't know why as five of them have been reissued, but my particular copies are way up there in value. It makes zero sense to me.
Now as to my vinyl records, I take all valuations with more than a grain of salt. I look at the middle or average price on discogs for a rough guide to valuation for insurance. In reality though I don't care what the proposed value is of my records and CDs and I don't bother looking much. Why? When you are buying your record, say it is $4 or $5 or $10 or $20 at the time. Then you see a month later or three months later that your $4 record is now around $20 or $40 at dealers, shops, but on Discogs it may be worth $5 or $2 or $1. So how do you value that? Answer: You don't. Say your record you paid $4 for is worth close to $40 everywhere you look, then you decide you want to sell it. How much do you think you will get for it, selling it to another collector or what have you? Answer: You would be lucky to get $4 for it on the best day. You'll likely end up having to let it go for $2. It gets worse as the artificial value goes up.
Yes, values on records are artificial. The only "collector's records" that exist are ones with extremely limited runs of say less than 1,000 units (Units are multiples of records, not each record), not in line for any reissues and maybe the historic very first pressing of a 50+ year old record in the literal sense. Those may be worth something of significance monetarily. As for first runs of average to large quantity or "promo" copies or previously owned by someone famous and the like, those have no more than original face value monetarily, $4, $6, $10 whatever it was at the time it came out. Remember we are talking strictly monetary value, in my opinion, records can have a much higher value than monetary.
So looking at my collection for example: If I believed what I see price-wise at dealers and some on discogs, Ebay, etc. I would be sitting one around $1,000,000+! It is absolutely absurd, what I see! For example, my Dylan records of which I have around 12 plus the Biograph box set are 1980's reissues. I bought them all new for around $4 each at that time in a record store. The Biograph set was around $10 new. Sonically, they are fine, nothing wrong with them. (The Biograph box set is astoundingly good sonically). I now see prices from $20 to close to $40 for the exact same reissue pressings I have from the 80s and some not in as good of condition! I have not seen many of the Biograph sets, so I don't know what they are at. There is no way my Dylan records are worth that! They are worth $4 each at best on a lucky day! Also record prices fluctuate wildly, as in almost by the day. I have a Mannheim Steamroller box set from the 80s (That blue velvet job with the silver medallion in the middle), about 50,000 were made distributed nationwide. Mine is in the 30,000 number range. Mine is new condition, got it sealed, but took off the wrap, because in my mind there is no reason to leave it sealed. I paid $40 plus $6 shipping for what I thought was a VG copy. When it arrived it was NOS (new old stock), originally sealed! It is the first and last record I ever bought on Discogs. I was tracking it for a while, it was hovering around $200 to $250. Then I found a seller selling his copy for around $40 VG condition so I bought it. The very next week this box set in VG condition (mine was new) were going for around $46. Three weeks later, those same ones were $240 then down to $230 a few weeks later, then down to around $50 a few weeks later, then back to $250 a few weeks later and on and on. What is it worth right now? I have not looked. (I have not played any of the records in it, I have the original standard pressings I play).
I spoke with my insurance company and this is likely similar across the board, they said they will give me $2500 coverage for both vinyl record and CD collections combined covered under the whole policy, so that's $1250 each collection. If I want more coverage I have to have them appraised and do a rider, which also means a higher premium. How much is my collection worth right now? I will assume $4 per record, so about $3280. It could be more than that or more towards about $1700. To have the records appraised would cost me from $30 to $100 per record, because I would have to have the appraisal receipts drawn up. So we are talking about $24,000 to $70,000+ to have my collection appraised! No thanks.
The problem is that no amount of money can replace the true value of ones records and can't replace any that are out of print, etc.
Can you insure a PRICELESS ART collection?
Ever decreasing bank accounts?
...Oh, insurance. Hey, I'll store that Drukqs behind you in my erm...record storage safe room...free of charge, that'll be a weight off your mind?..I _promise_ I won't play it......often ;-)
@@Mark-Book STAY AWY FROM MY DRUKQS
I have thousands of rare and difficult to replace L.P.S collected over six decades. I have no interest in insuring them. Classical and easy listening/lounge from the 1950s-60s aren't exactly collecting gold.
you are more worried about the format then the music it holds
Feels okay to be second 👍
silver star
Ok now, I am stressed out 🤣
Damnit Matt for disturbing my peaceful evening with a message like that !
Where's Sandy, she might have answer to this. 😂😉
@@Martin_Skywatcher damnit sandy