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Testing Optane Drives in Homelab/Server Usecases, Are They Worth it With the Price Drops?
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
- I have noticed that Optane SSDs like the 900p have had their prices drop significantly after they have been discounted. Today I want to try to find a use case for these ssds in a server environment, and take a look at applications like as a swap drive, zfs log drive, and a ZFS special drive.
0:00 Intro
0:15 Optane overview
0:50 find a good use for Optane drives
2:18 Testing swap drive performance
3:17 Optane and power loss protection
4:00 ZFS log drive perforamnce
4:15 ZFS Special drive testing
5:30 Other Optane server drives to take a look at
6:20 Looking back at Optane drives in the market
7:07 Conclusion
I think there is alot of people getting into homelabs currently. I've personally found you incredibly easy to watch and really clear.
The huge advantage of these drives was with the DIMM variant that Intel didn't release to the general market. They would have been amazing in servers and laptops, really giving M.2 some fierce competition due to their low latency but it failed because Intel got greedy locked it down to intel servers then charged an insane price of $15,000 for a 512GB stick. Big thanks for the video.
I would have like to see the optane as ram concept grow. I have an idea of a system with one large pool of optane working as memory and storage and having very fast load times as there is less or no copying between memory and storage that is commonly done now.
15K?! I thought one of their main advantages was being cheaper per GB than DRAM.
@@whyjay9959 The only cheap ones were the ones marketed and sold as laptop cache drives and pair in a special raid with HDD.
They are so expensive because they can effectively operate as non-volatile RAM.
Intel saw this and decided to charge insane amounts of money for the tech which ultimately killed it's adoption.
@ElectronicsWizardry ram is so cheap now. Virtual memory kind of do the same for that matters no matter how big your ram is. But then it require the os to be designed to do it in the first place? I think Playstation did somewhat exactly like this on their co controller, except that their loading time is already written on their storage. It didn't know need to compute read and write. It already has it file loaded already written. It just load right off to it to a new map like it's ram. That's how it can play 4k m
Texture and map real time. Correct me if I'm wrong
Thanks to your prior videos, I'm now running an unobtrusive Proxmox homelab cluster of 1-liter PCs using Optane accelerators/hybrids as boot drives and enterprise SATA SSDs for the VMs, all second-hand and low-ish cost. This makes for tiny energy-saving nodes that are relatively wear-resistant and impervious to power loss issues, so no RAID setup required.
Thanks for the heads up on ZFS Special Drives. I didn't even know that was a thing. It looks like something worth investigating 👍
Unlike cache the special drive becomes a vital part of the drive array. The hard drives won't be readable without the special drive so you really need two and mirror them. I was tempted to do this on my TrueNAS but I realised being able to recover my data easily was more important than extra speed. I might one day do it but I will use two special drives mirrored.
Good vid. Optane will have a place until NAND drops latency and increases write resiliency. I don't see Optane as capacity - only caching at reduced cost vs RAM. And, your point is valid regarding high workloads, there is a point where parallelism increases making NAND throughput a better choice all around - the choice needing scrutiny on a case by case basis.
I am buying these for latency and endurance, perfect for zfs and proxmox boot. You could heavily over provision nand SSD's, but pcie gen4+ nand drives are also very hot and it's sometimes a problem. Pity all the selloff is happening in US :/
yeah, I think your analysis is pretty spot on. I too really wanted to see where Micron and Intel would take Optane, but really sad to see it get shelved. I think the cost per gigabyte was too high, and they just didn't get enough of these into the market to leverage any economies of scale.
Yup capitalism clearly did not breed innovation here to say the least. We literally lost an entire half step above nand ssds due to cost cuts, that's crazy 💀
I worked for 4 years in the Intel-Micron fab making 3DxP. I also looked forward to see what could be done with it, and I was quite disappointed when they decided to mothball (permanently terminate) the technology. That was a couple years before Intel put an end to Optane in New Mexico.
I'm loving that SUN hardware!
Great video! For the Optane m.2 stick, you should have used the p1600x 56gb or 112gb for the comparison. It would have performed better, and the price is hard to beat on Newegg right now.
But the video would be much shorter as the benchmarks would take less time. :-) I have a couple of the 112GB drives.
What's the difference between those and what was in the video?
@@SC-hk6uiAlso the p1600x gets crazy close to the p5800x in qd1 reads. I'm getting 10.5 microseconds of latency or about 370mbs/95k iops while it's my OS drive. The p5800x gets like 9 mocro seconds of latency without an os hitting it as you're testing. Crazy impressed. Also the fact that i still get the power loss capacitors which are pretty much tiny batteries to save your data when the powe cuts is great for what is $50.
@@be-kind00 It's nearly twice as fast in every single way. In random read performance it actually significantly beats even that much more expensive 900p drive that doesn't even come in m.2 either.
the 100 & 118gb optanes are perfect for boot disks imo. The 1.5tb models are great too, for ceph. I also use optane for my plex server, as it is great for being constantly hit with transcoding caches, for many tiny reads/writes for images, and for sqlite!
@SC-hk6ui Just did and it cut about 40% off my boot times coming from a wd sn850x (one of the best nvme drives out). Crazy good. You also get enterprise power loss protection, data accuracy and mtbf which even some of the more expensive optane drives like the 905p do not. The main thing tho was getting so close to the qd1 random read performance of the multiple thousand dollar big brother (p5800x). 370MB/s I get while the p5800x gets just over 400MB/s. I never hoped it'd be that close, at that price difference.
@@SC-hk6ui Actually funny you say that because I literally just did that and am now getting 420 MB/s read! This is a gem of a drive jesus christ. Writes improved sloghtly more too which ill take. A bit unfortunate logically with how littlethroughput the 1600x really takes up compared to the WD but I've got 8 chipset lanes anyway so my 850x will be fine.
Once again very informative
I have an old H10 256+16 Intel Optane in my Dell 15 P85F Inspiron. It boots real fast. Thank for the fresh information. Cheers from Sydney Australia 🦘
I have one of these 900P 280gb as boot drive on windows 11 some games i put on it! I have too a solidgm p44 pro 1tb tested on my system... Optane make the system faster, Down the DPC a LOT and I don't destroy the other nands on my system over time.
Who got this optanes about 85us be happy.
Hey, I am building a PC based on P44 Pro 1TB, does the Optane truly outperform Solidigm?! I find it hard to believe and is it large enough to have all Windows files and programs on it?!
@@AudiS4orce1 With large files the optane handly better... Sytem way snappier with optane. If you find one cheap try IT
I wanna Optane drive.. just because it's cooool)
Great video! Thank you!
Exactly what I was considering!
Price keeps dropping (I guess as expected) The 905p 1.5 TB is $300 on New Egg.
Maybe one of the other new memory types will take its place. CXL might also provide more uses for something between flash and DRAM in performance.
Why does this guy look like a actual wizard
Great content.
I literally just bought two 280gb optane drives. My hope is to use them as cache for read and write in unraid (maybe truenas I dunno yet)
I've got one of these for a dev machine years ago because it performs great under the small files 70% Random-Read/30% Random-Write use-case and have amazing write endurance but even for this use-case it's overkill, NAND performs basically the same these days for a significantly smaller price. The price starts to make sense when these are used on servers that get hit 24/7 - for any other use-case, NAND basically offers the same performance.
No it doesn't and even in the few game load times I've seen, the difference between a p5800x and something like a 990 pro is bigger than a 990 pro to a 860 evo (a 2018 sata ssd). Latency trumps all. In boot times it's even bigger difference and I've never even seen a boot test on a p5800x either (there's a few with the 905p tho) . Ofc the p5800x is absurdly expensive but no absurdly expensive cpu or gpu above the 14900k/7800x3d /4090 will be faster at all and usually slower for most people unlike this. Even old people could easily notice the boot time difference at least from the tests I've seen.
Thanks for the video!
These were never meant to be used as boot drives all storage drives. They are a cashe drive meant to be used with Intel's RST to load most commonly used data at the highest possible speed - This is why they are okay as a swap drive but again not what they are designed for. When used as intended on a compatible system they do not make enough of a performance difference to justify the cost unless you have a very specific use case. The new generation of combined SSD and optane memory devices, such as H10 and H20, are a little better but unless you have an 11th gen Intel CPU and Windows OS they are not worth the aggravation to get running in any useful manner.
What about using it as NAS cache? or as boot drive? would it do better than NAND flash?
This really depends on the cache type. These drives excel in workloads like a ZFS log drive as they have very fast sync writes and high endurance. But in some caching applications, a larger slower drive may be better as it allows more data to be in the cache.
I have seen people using the small drives(16 and 32) for server boot drives as there very cheap on places like eBay and often more than enough storage for a lightweight OS. The extra performance may be nice for some boot drives and Ive heard they feel a bit snappier as a Windows boot drive, but I didn't notice a difference personally in Windows 11 using a 900p compared to a NAND NVMe SSD.
@@ElectronicsWizardryIt’s for my Synology. I can have 2 SSDs to either act as read-only or read/write and if the latter it must be in RAID-1 setup. Many avoids R/W setup due to risk of power fail but optane has power loss protection unlike most other NAND SSDs on the market. I’m thinking either 58 or 118gb Optane.
@AudiS4orce1 I don’t know what Synopogy uses under the hood but it might make sense going optane for the write caching mode. For a read cache a bigger band drive is probably a better bet.
I also have tried a good amount of ssd caching in nas uses with often failed small benefits so don’t expect a huge jump for most workloads.
@@ElectronicsWizardryThanks. So on the same token optane wouldn’t be necessarily great for a desktop boot drive on AMD machine. Right? A fast NAND SSD with 1Tb data should outperform it. No?
@AudiS4orce1 optane would probably be a faster boot drive and a bit snappier. I tried this on my personal desktop with a 12900k and otherwise high end parts and didn’t notice a major difference. If you want the snappiest system it might be worth the try but don’t expect a huge jump. NAND ssds have gotten better since optane has died, but the peak advertised sequential speeds often don’t matter and optane is still much better in terms of latency.
I keep thinking about adding Optane DIMMs to my Dell PowerEdge R740, but the complexity of what DIMMs you need installed where in order for the Optane DIMMs to work is confusing! Any experience with Optane DIMMs?
I’ve never played with optane dims but they seem like a cool product to test. Unfortunately intel seems to have killed the product and current used pricing isn’t that much cheaper than dram currently.
As a game developer i'm gonna install a 512 optane unit with 32gb cache, hope it goes well
I can get a 480gb Optane P900 for $150. Is it worth it as Boot drive compared to Samsung 990 pro?
I personally didn’t notice the boot drive speed difference but it will likely be a bit faster as a boot drive than a 990 pro or almost any nand drive. If it’s worth it is up to you but I wouldn’t say it was worth it from my experience using my 280gb drive as a boot drive on windows 11.
@@ElectronicsWizardry Yeah, I assume launching programs and other things will be snappier due to higher random reads, but not sure if noticeable. The other thing is massive TBW, so wouldn't have to worry about wearing it out ever!
@3:00 umm, if you want Optane to be System RAM, you need Optane Persistent memory...
they totally rock but they are still overpriced - you can and should just stick to nvme which is plenty good and much cheaper and bigger, push your upgrades to better networking and try to get symmetrical fiber - these will have much bigger impacts on your smb/homelab. over provisoning memory and using ram drives may b a good option
Band you mean not nvme. All optanes are nvme.
Do you have the 905P 960GB $399 newegg in this video?
I got my 280gb optane 900p as part of a combo deal with a 12900k on amazon. I have seen lots of similar deals out there recently.
@@ElectronicsWizardryhello there, I own a hitachi DW-F800-DB60C JBOD and having problems connecting to my pc, using mellanox card, any way you can help, hitachi is not particularly helping.
Hey dude, will 2x 16gb m10 ssds be good enough for a proxmox boot drive?
I have a Proxmox system booting from dual 16GB Optane drives currently without issue. If you can get them cheap and have the m.2 slots they make a good amount of sense, otherwise I'd get a 256GB Nand drive for the extra space.
@@ElectronicsWizardry My intentions is to mirror them and set them up as my boot drive and use a mirrored pair of Intel S3700/S3710 400gb ssds for my data. I found a source in China selling new drives for $5 a pcs and an American seller selling used S3700 400gb for $13 a pcs. Do you think 400gb will be enough to host all my networking (2x opnsense, 2x piholes, nginx and wireguard) datasets/bases, password manager and a authentication service like authentik or authelia?
Due to my MB selection, the modified Supermicro X10SLH motherboard you recently reviewed on your channel, I wont have on board nvme slots so i will be forced to use m.2 to 2.5" sata adapters.
@CYYB3RMISTER those pieces for the drives seem pretty good to me.
I’d guess 400gb will be fine for those services, but it might be close. I’d try to use containers and thin provisioning to save space.
As far as that board goes I don’t think it supports nvme boot and won’t show nvme drives in the boot order. I couldn’t find a newer bios for it publicly that added nvme support. I’d probably boot off data ssds to make it simpler and avoid the nvme support issues here.
@@ElectronicsWizardry If I needed more space, can I convert a z1 array to a z10 array to accommodate 2 more drives within the gui?
The ebay seller I bought my mobo combo from has a copy of the modified bios that supports nvme, but I don't know if it supports nvme boot as well. He didnt flash the bios but he did say he was using a bifurcated card but I never asked if he was booting from it as well
@CYYB3RMISTER if the bios supports nvme it probably means nvme boot. Nvme as storage drives should work on any board with pcie support. For adapters anything should work. I’ve bout a few cheap ones without issues.
I don’t think the gui lets you expand from a mirror to multiple striped mirrors but you can do it in the terminal.
yoooo what the fuck why is elrond tryin to sell me optane
Bro just shave your head at this point xĐ nice review btw ty
It's the curse of Linux, makes your hair go grey and fallout before your time. 😭
@@ericneo2ROTFL.
Thin very thin.....retreating.......way back and to the side.......I am talking about your hair. Get it cut man, that is bad
Keeps as a side hustle.