Why Dune's Editing Feels Different
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2022
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Adapting Dune for the screen was a big challenge that pushed Director Denis Villeneuve and Editor Joe Walker, ACE to use a slightly unconventional approach to editing in the film. In this video I breakdown how Walker works within the "montage mode" of editing to tell the film's story efficiently and powerfully.
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What I love about the movie specifically is that it takes it's audience seriously. You are not treated like child and have evereything spoon fed to you. The movie also doesn't overload you with information. It's hard to describe especially when your jaw is permanently dislocated from the sheer beauty of the shots.
Really demonstrated the talent of the team and the Director, excited to hear he might be working on "Roundevous with Rama" after the second movie, hope they stick with the retro-scifi tech described in the book since it would stand out considerably against a lot of modern scifi
The book does the same.
When i read the first book half the words I was like "Okay what the fuck is that just because it's the version from the mid sixties or is this an in universe item?"
I didnt know ANYTHHING about the Dune, except "its epic" and "there are sandworms". I had a preset to watch a rehashed 80s thriller. Boy, I was wrong. 15minutes in I was pausing and reading wiki and taking notes to remember the factions. I was overwhelmed with foreign terms.
Well said and spot on.
@@Comrade_AkimovIt was so much easier to follow the book after I had finished the film and had read a bit about the lore
I was just looking for a good video to watch while eating.... perfect timing
Bagel?
Wtf same having dinner
OMFG ME TOO , THE ODDSS?
Same here
Literally same (chicken and rice)
8:31 - it's not just a shot of Paul's hand in water, it's Paul touching *sand* in water. That's the thematic transition. He goes from touching vegetation, to touching submerged sand, to the dry sands of Arrakis, to the spice.
There is a continuity in theme and action: Paul's hand is framed in the gom jabbar scene to touching grass/sand in the leaving Caladan scene to touching spice-laden sand the spice harvester scene. This is consistent with the actions of hands in the book: Jessica in the still tent telling Paul to consider all the muscles in his hand as a prana-bindu exercise while Paul mentally dismisses the significance of his hand compared to the wild sandworms.
There's serval shots of his hand. Covered in blood, taking the sword, and others. It's part of how we're showed the importance of a thing that Paul has a deeper connection to in deeper ways.
@@fergushancock3567 The right hand of the blessed, the left hand of the damned, a moon with a fist on it, Atreides hand signals, Fremen hand signals, the test of the box, the ducal signet ring, Feyds gloves during the gladiator battles, Gurney's baliset-player's hands, the Baron's nervous tapping, a hidden poison needle in a palm... Hands are incredibly important to the entire narrative of the book.
But he didn't touch the sand! Almost like done deliberately so it would imply his hesitation towards the desert. Instead he touched only water, a thing rare and precious where he was about to go.
He went from touching grass to touching sand
I love how the ships come out of the water instead of being on land. Just emphasizes how the Atreides are going from a life with an overwhelming abundance of water to a new life where it's overwhelmingly scarce. Makes you think about how they could never be truly prepared for such a massive change.
Can't wait for the next movie. I really, REALLY loved this one, I wish it was 4 hours long. Would have been great to see a bit of what life is like for regular people on Caladan, even if it was just a couple stray shots here and there. And I kind of wish they had found time for the dinner party scene on Arrakis. Would have added a lot of flavor to the place, and made the invasion feel less abrupt.
The dinner scene was basically infodumping that, at the end of the day, didn't make any difference. It showed Leto and Jessica being highly adept at politicking and court intrigue, but shortly thereafter all of that was rendered pointless because the story moved from the setting where such skills were useful.
@@keith6706 I know. I didn't say it was crucial, or even relevant to the plot. That's why I mentioned it in terms of flavor (i.e. world building) and pacing.
Just that little scene would have gone a long way toward making the world (and the whole universe) feel more fleshed out. It doesn't give us any sense that there is a class of elites on Arrakis, aside from whichever family is the current steward.
As much as I loved the movie, I can't help but feel like it has tunnel vision a little bit. But I'm chalking it up to the fact that they weren't fully committed to it yet. I'm sure the next one will widen the scope.
@@neofromthewarnerbrothersic145 that feeling (that I completely empathise with) is pretty much why Dune had the reputation for being impossible to adapt to film. Large threads need to be cut out because, while they're intriguing in some capacity when read in the book, they bog down the film which really needs to include details that will be relevant and set up not only the latter half of the film, but leave material for the second part of the first book adaptation - as well as Denis Villeneuve's then-pipe dream of doing more than that, as I think he has tiny references to stuff that is only going to pay off starting from the third book.
Denis's prior film was Blade Runner 2049, which got a lot of criticism for slow pace and being too long by indulging in world building and slower shots. So not only did he have a very tangled, gnarled novel to adapt with his script writer, he also was desperate to address that criticism, I feel. He partially fixed the gaps that some of the cut things created, ironically by cutting even more out. The film is keeping some things secret at it's point of the novel's story, while the novel had spelled out some of these revelations in plain words either virtually at the start, or at least fairly early within the first half of the book. It doesn't really harm the book knowing those things from the start because it's seeking to entertain almost by sociological analysis, and by showing how these people all work, and how they think, which is what Frank Herbert was truly interested in first and foremost, rather than the science-fiction or fantasy for their own sake.
Leaving more secrets until later and cutting out sections that are self-contained and only serve to develop relatively 'small' parts certainly helped them keep the film going, while creating new ways to flesh out a second (or further) film, and also leaving enough mystery for the media. The book spends a lot of time and words describing the thought processes of major characters, and showing their mental skills and training that way, instead of showing all of that through the actions of the characters and the overall plot. It's almost competence porn in the way that the older Star Trek series used to be (especially TNG, DS9) but in a way that's shown by thoughts and sometimes speeches, not actions. You can't really film that and end up with a film like what got made with Dune 2021, you instead end up with a film that needs to be deliberately working around the disjointed and unreal feeling created by that. (Though I admit Star Trek, especially TNG, definitely went for showing competence with speeches. Picard's are infamous!)
Additionally, as a massive fan of Frank Herbert's work on Dune, I have to admit that Denis has flat-out improved on some aspects from the books, and other adaptations. For example, what he did with Duncan Idaho both in general and in his death scene was fantastic, much better fitting for the character, and in my opinion, also will feel even better if Denis going beyond this book. I won't spoil anything.
tl;dr You have to cut out very painful amounts from the book to make a workable first film, in the current 'comfortable' maximum length of just under two and a half hours. At least Denis Villeneuve had the sense to make a decent 'part one' instead of trying to repeat Lynch's mistake (either his or that of his studio) by doing the whole book in one go, which was a butchery as a result.
Sorry, long comment, but I think the film deserves the discussion.
The weirdest thing was lady Jessica not getting told that the knife needed to taste blood if drawn
@@neofromthewarnerbrothersic145 imho leaving it out was to keep the film focused.
The glass of water scene, in context, made me feel the same feeling you have when you wake up from a daydream, or get ripped back into reality when in deep thought, or even that brief moment between dosing off and waking up, realising you had dosed off. And that's exactly what it would feel like in universe. But to be able to create that feeling artificially.. that's just amazing
Yeah, being able to communicate something we can empathise/understand in a cinema technique (editing) is so great!
@Kokobaboko lel
@Kokobaboko By watching Dune, OP learned how to appreciate an effective jump cut, which will let them appreciate Good Cinema even further! You can learn this stuff from any movie, past or present, “good” or “bad.”
@@zenithquasar9623 I love multi-sensory media so much, it provides such unique ways to establish tone. Comics are a good example of this too.
What bullshit
2:20
I actually didn't notice that.
While watching the movie it always felt like she just didn't move it far enough, indicating he got her to move it, but couldn't hold the "trance" long enough.
I’m pretty sure that is what happened, I think he read into that a bit too much.
Yeah I agree. She even said that he almost got there (or something similar).
Yeah she just moved it halfway, hence the "almost" I believe. Still, great video.
@@YourBlackLocal but the glass didn't move at all, if you compare its position before and after the failed trance it's still the same, so what Thomas says is true
@@fndrl Holy shit man. She actually never moves the glass. Seen this movie a minimum of 15 times but I never noticed this lmao. Even I thought Thomas is reading too much into it , but damn he's right.
Leaving Caladan was exactly the point in the film where I got that "Seeing Star Wars for the first time." feeling.
The editing and the score are 100% responsible for that.
Easily the best scenes of the film.
one of the best montages/scores of any movie
It took a whole 20 minutes and it was a snooze
@@patreekotime4578coz the other scenes sucked even more
@@josephguido408you haven’t watched good movies
I was listening to an interview with Frank Herbert, and he talks about how he intentionally added a rhythm to the prose of Dune, through his word choice and sentence structure. (It creates the effect that the first part of the story is read very slowly and methodically, which helps people digest and understand the world, while the last part of the story has such a fast pace that people naturally blow through it). How fitting is it that the movie follows a similar technique?
Ooh! No wonder why the last part felt so rushed.
Visually perhaps. But the dialogue definitely lacks the poetry of the book. As hated as Lynch's version is, he at least managed to salvage the poetry of the language and even expanded it, creating some of the most memorable sound bytes in cinema. Ive seen Villeneuves movie a dozen times and none of the dialogue stands out or really stays with me. Often I still find myself saying the line as it was said in Lynch's version, just as I did on the first viewing. Long live the Fighters!
@@patreekotime4578 Its a pity many disliked the David Lynch version (usual case of people blindly agreeing with & parroting the opinions of critics).
I love both versions for totally different reasons (both have strengths) and regularly revisit both (saw Villeneuves version only a couple of days ago). Can’t wait for the next instalment in 2023.
@@sultanoftippoo3857 Ive watched both one after the other several times and they both have pluses and negatives. Even after so many viewings, I still hate Villeneauvs intro that feels like a trailer at the beginning. To me that was sloppy.
@@patreekotime4578 Agree, neither is perfect (probably one of the most difficult projects to bring from Novel to Screen) but both are light years more engaging than the endless output coming from the Marvel or DC universes (that said, I’ve enjoyed a few of those as well but a different experience).
A scene I really liked is when they are firing up the ornithopter to escape. They cut back to looking at the tunnel (checking for pursuers) like four times. The scene is really intense. They fly away before anybody even emerges from the tunnel. Really makes you share in the anxiety of the moment without the cliche of the buzzerbeater escape. They had a margin, but they didn't know that and neither did you.
I loved this part too!!!
other films will just have the pursuer to appear right when the thropter's up
That eye-movement cut you did is such a great example of the power of editing, wow. Completely changes the feel and pace of the scene.
Hope you make a video about The Batman. It was the most atmospherically immersive movie I’ve seen since Dune and Blade Runner 2049. Greig Fraser did it again.
The first half of that movie makes me feel like I’m physically in every scene. Especially the crime scene parts when we’re in the moment with Batman as he does what he does best.
Those three movies have the style that is so in fashion right now. Very pretentious direction with big focus in cinematography and big sound walls as soundtracks. And sometimes even less focus in characters and story. However, and although I like most of them, The Batman has been a step forward in many ways. Or backwards. It brings back more melodies, more character study, etc. Very happy with the film.
That said, I know you mentioned 3 big blockbusters which are the ones most people only see, but outside of them there are a lot of superimmersive movies. Simply they're not as well known by the general public.
WB is doing good shit
Wow! That's good praise, I'm so excited to see it soon hopefully.
@@llStalell that car chase made me feel like I needed to put a seatbelt on
Great analysis. One of the tremendous accomplishments of Dune is its ability to use what you call "continuity of emotion" and "brain stemmy"-ness to convey an absurd density of information intuitively to an audience without exposition. We simply don't have time for the film to explain to us everything we need to know- so Dune trusts us to intuitively grasp ideas using only the briefest of shots. The hand on Jessica's neck sticks out to me. It's only a few seconds of screentime, but it conveys everything we need to know about Leto and Jessica's relationship in a few frames. This is a practical, logistical solution to the density problem as much as anything, but it's also what allows the universe to feel so lived in. Great stuff!
The lack of over-exposition was a great move. They trusted the audience.
Denis Villeneuve, in my opinion, is an absolute grandmaster at doing this. His earlier sci-fi films Arrival, and Blade Runner 2049, do the same thing and just as well. But for me, Dune demonstrates the legitimacy of that skill by being an adaptation of a book that's full of massive excess description of people's thought processes, and political machinations. With Blade Runner 2049, it was hard to shake the feeling that perhaps, fans of the film were just reading into what wasn't really 'there' or intended by the director, but with Dune we have outright evidence that all of the subtle details that are only described by visual and emotional feel, are absolutely intentional.
one excellent example of this is "explaining" what the Mentat do and how they work. You have the visual cue of the rolled back eyes, a small example of what they can do, and so when you see Pieter de Vries and he rolls his eyes back you immediately know that's not a random advisor, but someone with enhanced capabilities. Very economical.
I left the movie theater in a trance after Dune and mostly attributed it to the fantastic score and cinematography, so I’m glad to hear about the other features that I didn’t even notice that created this feeling, it really is a masterpiece
I’ve never read the book, but the editing during the scene with Paul and the Mother Superior conveyed the situation flawlessly. The cuts between the characters, the slight blurring of the image that occurs when the Voice is used, the small but noticeable sound effects all added up beautifully.
if you didn't read the book, congratulation, Villeneuve ruined it for you
@@larryneagu1180 yeah, his movie is so good that book seems much simplier and less then his creative vision.
@@LSG101097 you deserve the medal of stoopid
That scene is already amazing in the book! It drives home the core concept of human improvement that underlies much of Dune. In the movie... it becomes visceral, intimidating, gripping on all levels.
Just for fun: Lynch' take on this same scene is nowhere near as good.
It's a good day whenever Thomas uploads. There's always something new to learn about films and filmmaking. I always instantly click the latest videos because I know it's gonna be good.
Love that he’s so focused on Dune. My favorite movie of the last 20 years probably
@@dantraficonte8752 Could Dune (2021) very well be the greatest film in the history of all cinema???
@@costco_pizza Yes, I dare say!!!
@Kokobaboko #respectfullydisagree
suprised you didn't mention the scene were paul says "I can feel your footsteps, old man" and then it jump cuts to Gurney right behind him. such a distinctive and idiosyncratic editing technique.
One of my favorite edits in the film is the way the efficiency of Thufir's investigation of the hunter-seeker operator is carried out, even though its such a quick moment. Paul says 'The operator must be near by', followed by that musical sting that almost sounds like an alarm, Thufir rushing down a hall with his aides, the aftermath of the operators' discovery and then Thufir's resignation. In a film so densely packed this sequence, albeit by necessity, manages to feel so full of information and memorable.
It indicates Thufir's capabilities, irreplaceability and loyalty. I totally agree with you. Great that they still put Thufir as valuable character although short
The amount of information you've provided, as to what makes Dune a cinematic masterpiece, I never would've conscientiously seen. One of my favorite films since BR2049.
The scene between Stilgar, the Duke and Paul was most subtle but significant. You did you a very good job pointing out what exactly made it subtle and significant. Very insightful!
ANOTHER DUNE!
Never noticed the disconnection and information connectivity.. Only that everything felt pronounced in a way I can't explain. What did you find was similar/different about the editing in Blade Runner 2049/Arrival?
He broke the continuity of my thoughts every time he said Jom Gabbar 😭
Thank Shai-hulud, I'm not the only one 😂
I was about to comment that too
Blame the Gene Besserit
😂 I searched high and low for this comment...🔥
Aaagh yes
I first noticed Villeneuve's sense of editing rhythm in BR2049. There's a lot of silent, panning scenes with K just walking and exploring spaces and sequences like that get boring if not done well. But they're executed masterfully in the film. If you were to go back and watch these shots the rhythm almost feels metronomic.
Great to know that Joe Walker was responsible for that, and that he brought his best to Dune as well.
Everyone: "Uncut Gems"
Julia Fox: *"Uncut JAHMZ"*
Everyone: "Gom Jabbar"
Thomas at 10:16 : *"JAHM Gabbar"*
YES *G*-om *J*-abbar
Say it with me now
What pains me most is that my friends are willing to go to some run of the mill Marvel movie just because, but nearly none of them have gone to see Dune. Even after I begged them to go. I thought the movie was so incredibly special, it was something I imagine Star Wars was like when the first movie came out way back when. I sometimes don't understand people.
Same :(
People are way more simplistic than I always assumed they'd be. When utterly brain-dead movies like Fast and the Furious franchise makes bank on the box office just proves that a huge majority of people just want to shut their brain off and look at explosions. But It's not a new thing though. Just that Marvel has been hammering this point home for more than a decade now
speaking as someone who really enjoyed dune and regularly goes to watch marvel movies, i see your point but sometimes it just boils down to differing interests. perhaps your friends aren't too interested in watching films that excel in editing, score, etc and prefer watching movies about content they enjoy (like marvel comics). or it could be that they think dune's content (adapting from the novel) is too heavy/complicated. some folks don't even like star wars, despite it being such an iconic franchise. to each their own. however, i agree that they should've gone with you to see dune, because it really is fantastic.
This is really art...Villeneuve is a génie
I have never liked the book or the movie. The endless adaptation descriptions of the arid environment were laborious to be kind. Respect when someone does not like a book or film. Resist the urge to find oneself intellectually superior.
I wondered why I had such a visceral connection to the asthetics of this film. it is so simple, natural and beautiful. know I see there was an intention behind it and the editing language. great work!
I could go on for hours learning about how Dune was composed and shot. It's a masterpiece of a movie.
Someone told me an interesting theory, that the first line spoken "Dreams are messages from the deep." Is the voice of Leto II, the God Emperor, so these movies may be the POV of the God Emperor recollecting through his ancestral memories.
i always thought it was the voice of the sardaukar chanter
oh my GOD no way that's so cool it makes so much sense
What I love most about Villeneuve's work (and Walker, and all the technical team he surrounds his projects with) is how they bring quality cinema to a bigger audience. What you're describing is beautiful personal work that cinephiles usually encounter in "art" films (ie: not mainstream cinema). The editing feels beautiful and different because it's carefully crafted and not cultural MacDonald's. AS for a rythm created by actors' movements, see Wes Anderson. His films feel like dancers in a choreography.
The “shot rhythm” part at the end actually had me thinking that it would have been even better had the editor let that glance breathe even a bit more…6 more frames or so. Like, let there be a half-note there instead of a quarter note.
@callmecatalyst that’s a great way to put it.
I think the next cut was associated with the word "long!" and the subsequent pause. Delaying the cut would've meant doing so during another part of Stilgar's sentence.
We don't know how the rest of that shot of Paul looked, he might've done another sideway glance right after the moment of the cut, or there might've been something in the subsequent shots that would've gone missing.
In the section where you talk about leaving, and the emotional and thematic connection between the shots, several of the shots also contain and focus on water, something they have an abundance of on Caladan and is a scarce and vital resource on Arrakis. The shot of Paul dipping his hand in the water, as the ships physically leave the water of Caladan, is an even deeper metaphor for the change they will be experiencing and what they leave behind, with Paul's repetition of this movement later showcasing the nature of this change (blood, sand and spice compared with water and relative peace).
Wow. What an incredible video. It’s been months since I saw Dune in theaters and I’m still enjoying watching every video essay I can find on _why_ it was such a brilliant movie. From score to editing to acting to VFX to Villenue’s unique filmmaking techniques. Watching the behind the scenes of filmmaking is my crack lol.
Rhythm was a huge component of the books, as stated by Herbert himself in an interview. I'm glad these folks did their homework.
I love this as a fan of Dune and filmmaking; but I also wanted to say that as a dancer, theres also a lot of cross-applicable wisdom regarding maintaining cohesion and flow when creating choreography and combos. The four different types of continuity you mention in the video (action, rhythm, logic, emotion) can be applied to dance, and so then understanding how you can break from the more overt threads of continuity, but still maintaining a throughline that audiences can follow through intentional use of other threads of continuity-I got a lot of insight out of that. Not what I expected when I clicked on it, but grateful.
(# ^ __ ^ #)
this is amazing insight! thank you!
What you said about montage here helped me understand Bryan Fuller's work better! I just watched Hannibal, and I noticed an editing style I also saw in American Gods and Pushing Daisies - often there will be a shot of some object that's only present in the scene as a metaphor, like when Hannibal talks about a breaking teacup.
Dune is one of the movies that really made me so excited
I have gone 5 times to watch it in theatres and bought it's Bluray as well (I never did this for any movie by the way before), this already proves that why the movie is a masterpiece (at least for me)
My only hope, Plz the second part should also be phenomenal (haven't read Herbert's novel so more excited to see what will happen)....
I watched Dune 4 times in the cinema and bought the DVD last week and have watched it every night! Denis Villeneuve's Dune is a triumph! A Masterpiece.
Denis never disappoints
Love that you're talking up Dune on your channel from different angles. Just finished it for a third time from home, and man does it still hold up-- the script, the editing, the score. Denis was snubbed so bad at the oscars!!
You're saying that it still holds up as if it's old enough to have fallen behind. It's still basically a new movie. The 2nd and 3rd parts aren't even out yet!
@@webby2275 it holds up on repeated viewings, and the quality is the same at home as the theatrical experience
Great video as always, Thomas! You should do another Oscars Editing nominee video for this year!
I’m very interested in seeing if any other filmmakers/cinema types are similarly invested in this idea of “sensory” establishing shots, of characters interacting with their environment nonverbally to engage the audience effectively. It seems like such a fundamental aspect of storytelling to me, yet I see it so rarely in the Soundstage and Greenscreen Epics we usually get.
See the work of Andrei Tarkovsky and Terrence Malick. The poster for Malick's "A Hidden Life" is in the background of this video. It's a great film; editing in it is superb.
Yup, second Tarkovsky. Check out Mirror and Nostalgia
when you said "bridging time and space" and visceral spinal feel, it reminds me of Jessicas speech to Paul and Paul's vision of the mentor turned enemy who said life is not a mystery but meant to be experienced.
10:12 Lady Jessica is one of the best characters in the series! Rebecca Ferguson is amazinggggg! Damn, she actually looks amazing. Couple of seconds of video, but already very believable acting. Great Jessica casting.
Jessica sure did wreak havoc on the universe with her willfulness, leading to the 3500 year reign of Leto II, the eventual near destruction of the human race and rebirth of humanity. Ultimately, she is a mother goddess archetype, embodying the destructive nature of something like the goddess Kali and the creative aspect of Gaia. Quite an interesting character.
Jessica is my favorite character in the first three books of the series, she struggles, adapts and persevere. She supports unconditionally her duke and her son. She's even the rock where Paul support his humanity and sanity when almost everyone see him as a messiah. Mother, teacher and confident, she's the role model for the ultimate mother.
Also she ultimately fails, not because of lack of effort but because of her inherent human weakness, she can't quite accept what becomes of her daughter Alia, who was born fully aware and with advance Bene Gesserit skills. And that a recurrent theme on Herbert story, no matter how much training, skill, cunning of genetic predisposition a character has, a human is still a human, flawed and weak, with human limitation and fears.
Jessica is the most critical character on the series, for me is unimaginable an actress would portray her without being required read the novel. Or at least one hour of an explanation by Villeneuve about the character, him being a nut about Dune.
I've watched the movie three times and I did not get the "clever trick" of the continuity break during Paul's first attempt at The Voice. Thank you for explaining. So it's not 100% inuitively or effectively communicated to the audience (unless they already know a lot about editing). I recognized it as an unusual, but deliberate, choice but not it's contribution to the storytelling.
In the video The Sound Of Dune they talk about the Voice being about channelling powerful female ancestral voices.
Also in another interview Denis V says they had the idea that when the Voice is used on you, you lose consciousness momentarily and obey. I think the shot is of Jessica "waking up" after that.
Well, if you didn't get it even when watching the movie three times, it's not that you don't know a lot about editing, it's simply that it wasn't such a clever trick. If, like you say, something it's not intuitively and effectively communicated to the audience, it's not on you, it's just that the editing wasn't that good. Btw, I didn't get it either
Me having flashbacks to art school where we spent 6 months ALONE on 2001 space odyssey… 4 of which were MOSTLY about use of audio alone.
Yeah, this tickled EVERY correct spot in my brain as a film but, former continuity editor/script supervisor and overall art multi-sensory art junkie.
May I propose how much these choices mean to a more NONVERBAL audience, however. The choices not only drove the story forward for general audiences, but also provided narrative vector-motion and anchors for those who are more receptive to sensory cues.
Glad to see someone highlighting this film which was impacted so severely by the ‘Rona when it was released. Hopefully that nugget remains as a footnote when folks study it and box office success a 100+ years from now.
Context of society matters during a film release.
Might appear later in the video but the best (by far) scene in the movie is in the Spice Harvester "chapter" where Paul is in trance and kneeling in front of the harvester. (Around 1:06:45) Gurney picks up Paul and approaches from behind. And even though Paul is totally i trance he repeats the famous "I recognize your footsteps old man" before the camera jump cuts to a few seconds into the future where Gurney packs Paul by the shoulder and "saves" him. I.e. no continuity, the skip time.
First of all, that cut together with the music is just amazing. Second, I love how the movie sprinkles these suggestions that Paul can see the future throughout. You can argue that in the scene with the Reverend Mother, he (we, the camera) has a brief vision of Paul moving towards the Reverend Mother. Moments later, she uses the voice and this command for him blacks out. My interpretation here is that Paul still saw a glimpse of him moving towards here even though, when the moment arrived, he wasn't in control of his body.
In the Harvester scene, he "recognizes his footsteps" maybe quite a bit earlier to him actually getting close to him. He recognizes a future event. Though this is totally debatable. The cut makes me believe it but it might just be that Paul recognizes Gurney while he's still far away off camera.
I agree, the harvester scene is my favorite in the movie. That line and the music give me chills.
No spoilers, but the "old man" Paul references isn't Gurney, it's just posed like that
what is even more interesting about the line "I recognise your footsteps Old Man", is that the sandworms are referred to by the Fremen as the "old men of the desert". Paul was not only acknowledging Gurney's approach, but the approach of the Sandworm.
Amazing breakdown! Dune is one of those films that keeps giving you layers to uncover.
Thanks to analysis like yours I'm able to understand some aspects of movies that I love but not quite have the capacity to fully comprehend.
I hope you keep bringing us these videos. I truly enjoy them. 🙏
Absolutely amazing breakdown. Understanding the art of editing has always seemed to escape me for a while, but videos like this greatly help.
Also Dune is just incredible.
Came back from the future to tell Dune part II is beyond a masterpiece. Waiting for your analysis Thomas!
That's awesome you watched it without sound and confirmed there was a successful visual rhythm as well. When I saw it in theaters with a friend they left the lights on and had no audio for the first 5-10. No one in the audience wanted to stop watching even on mute lol
I’ve been reading Cutting Rhythms by Karen Pearlman and I must say it was a bit confusing and difficult for me to wrap my head around rhythm and how performance shapes it. But this video really helped me a lot in beginning to see how that is shaped. Thanks!
I'm not very sure, but I think the scene where Lady Jessica and Paul are having breakfast and Paul tries the voice on her, actually signals that the continuity broken was a portion of time where she is being controlled, and therefore not seeing that she actually moved the glass, if only a little (hence the 'almost'). That is, it's not a "back in time" but rather a "loss of consciousness of its passing", normal arrow or time flow; I always see it that way when I watch the scene. I think it is actually normal(?) continuity, Paul did it, she lost that brief portion of moment. The same happens when the reverend mother uses the voice on Paul. Those portions of time go forward as normal, they're just 'Lost' from the controlled person's point of view.
Or maybe not...on the other hand, I think maybe the glass didn't move, in which case Thomas has a point, and it was just a peek into Jessica's mind.
I think i see it same as you.
The first motion she makes was Paul's "inception" of her sub-conscious.
Then she pauses, says "almost" and gives him the water in the same motion she visualized.
Then Paul says "almost?"
He got her to do it. The voice worked.
On the theme of rhythm: Immortals (2011). The phrases the characters say sound very rhythmic, chant-like even. I’ve remembered the “Seal the gates and prepare for war” since I first saw not even the movie but the trailer - down to the way Henry Cavill’s mouth formed the words. There are phrases in the movie- I don’t know if it’s purely the sound design, the directed delivery of the lines or the way the lines were composed to be pronounced but so many of them just get burned into your memory purely for the way they resonate audibly:
“You’re on your own!”
“Prove. Me. Right! Lead your people.”
“In peace sons bury their fathers. In war fathers bury their sons. Are we at war, Father?”
“Does he know he butchered my mother?”
Theseus’ whole rallying speech felt like an entrancing chant or song. Zeus and Athena’s every line sounded divine and mesmerizing.
Hearing you Thomas talk about continuity of emotion and information made so much sense to me in relation to how the book is written. Where between each segment you're taken to another characters perspective without losing the feel of the story at that time.
The shot of Paul's hand in the water also contrasts with the Reverend-Mother's test of the Gom Jabbar.
Paul's right hand and remembering the pain is a motif within the book.
Pay attention to how frequently we almost nonchalantly see Paul's right hand following the Gom Jabbar scene
Hands, hand signs, hand feints, hand tells, a moon with a fist on it... hands appear continously in the book and are indeed an important part of the language of the story.
3:03 This time last year, I would've never guessed I'd immediately notice someone saying Jom Gabbar instead of Gom Jabbar. But now it sounds just as weird as someone saying Flomas Tight.
I just realised and witnessed the difference of a movie and a cinematic, artistic masterpiece
This is brilliant, I’m an editor myself and I didn’t notice these details, i felt something was off but couldn’t tell exactly what it was.
Which shows that even though he broke the roles the editing felt transparent and we all focused on the narrative which is always the goal.
Thanks for the breakdown, incredible information.
Thank you. Excellent analysis as always Thomas. I’m very pleased you did something about this film. I would say visually this was the most appealing film I’ve watched in the last 2-3 years.
“Jom gabbar” love you Thomas you’re goated
I knew he was a gamer
Your video essays are fantastic and your understanding of visual language is superb.
Continually impressed with the analyses you draw out of films and how well articulated they are. Keep up the awesome work!
Great breakdown, interesting information. It's good to see that many people became "DUNE-heads".
I'm addicted to Dune, the book and now .. Denis' magnificent film.
Yet another video on Dune on this channel? Guess it's time for me to watch the film again too then!
OMGOSH....Joe Walker!!! Thank you!! I've been searching since the film came out... WHOSE voice it was in Paul's video/educational dictionary!!
Your Dune videos/content are excellent, btw!
I learned so much about editing from this video! Especially about continuity of rhythm. I remember a few times when I was editing and a cut felt weird - when I look back it's because I was cutting too soon after a gesture or an eye movement.
Great work, love it. One minor mistake though was that you said "Jom Gabbar" instead of "Gom Jabbar." Had me repeating that part 5 times just to make sure I heard it right. Haha.
13:10 I keep thinking that one Fremen warrior in the bottom right corner of the screen is a centaur! We don't get enough time to discern what that blob is that seems "connected to" that warrior, a blob that for all appearances seems to be the warrior's actual "horse" body. Although at the very last fraction of a second before the cut, we see a bit of warpage in that "horse" body that hints that it may in fact be some sort of cape or coat draped around the warrior's waist.
Definitely a fabric from his gear lol
Found your channel through your Dune VFX breakdown and this video is just as captivating. Have really enjoyed all your videos on Dune so far, such a joy to watch and appreciate the movie through your breakdowns.
Great stuff here, Thomas. Very perceptive, insightful video on the significance and types of editing. Editing is a very key aspect of filmmaking. It's not just deciding what to leave in and what to cut, but also all these elements you mention here.
John Gabbar, my fav Dune character
Fantastic video about an incredible film. Just wanna point out though that you call it the "Jom Gabbar" instead of the "Gom Jabbar" twice.
Came here to say this
Great video. The sensory aspect really personalizes the setting as well, almost substituting the inner thoughts we had access to in the book.
amazing video, so so interesting and well articulated for even someone with no video editing background to understand. Really appreciate this :)
I don't think we can call good editing "different". What you described here are fundamentals of show - don't tell. Editing flows well as it should in competent movies. Breaking the continuity of action/information/emotion is nothing new, it is just another tool of story telling.
Dune is a competent movie, even an excellent movie, but nothing "different" or ground breaking. There are flaws... Seems these Dune videos on youtube are a bit reaching sometimes, including this one...
P.S. I think there can be a clear structure of what continuity of emotion and information can be. Ups and downs, buildup and payoff, and many other fundamentals and patterns we expect in story telling. Patterns and... rhythms. Rhythms that you mention a lot too... Rhythm is a formula.
I think if you have viewed a larger catalog of sci fi and fantasy films these editing tools are less surprising. After the power of 2049 I was prepared to have my socks blown off by V’s Dune but while I enjoyed it I was sadly not floored.
This suggests to me that you did not see it in an IMAX theater with full Dolby sound. Remember also that the task of bringing Dune to the screen was very difficult to begin with. That said, I also found 2049 jaw dropping.
@@alanparsonsfan sadly due to covid most of us were unable to see it as intended…but I made do at home. I hope they release a double feature when it’s possible to safely see films in theaters.
@@r8chlletters Sorry to hear that period I've been hearing rumors that they may re release Dune in imax sometime soon. If not, your idea of doing it with Dune ll as a double feature is absolutely brilliant one.
I have tears in my eyes, you broke it down so beautifully!
Can i just say, what a wonderfully written and edited youtube video. Superb work.
You inspire me to make movies. Maybe someday you will review one of mine.
There aren't too many movies that do it as well as the original. Not sure why the lynch version was hated so much.
because it was not Star Wars, people expected fantasy not sci fi
Thank you for your essay 🙏❤️🌸it’s very cool to discover such things!
This is a fantastic video essay. Thanks for the quality. Very easy to follow!
I think Dune's montage lacked a sense of space, but that was more related with the material available, which covered so little. I constantly felt disoriented and imprisoned in that world, all of these in the bad sense. It relied too much on the actors faces to show emotion, instead of a rhythmic use of shots, spaces, people, colors and chiaroscuros to do it. Just the opposite of what the majority of Blade Runner 2049 actually did (with the exception of the Jared Leto's scenes which were dull generally and the Harrison Ford appearances). I guess that's why the ACE Eddies went for King Richard.
7:59 is also an impressive shot that contains so much information. The hand on Lady Jessica's neck is not just a symbol of a trust bond. It is also a symbol of a power gradient. Think about the same scene but with Paul's instead of Leto I's hand. It would feel weird. She would not accept it in such a relaxed way, because as a mother she feels higher in the hierarchy than her son. But with her partner she accepts the lower position in hierarchy. So it can only be Leto I's hand.
And it also tells us a lot about Leto I's character. Jessica is not just his concubine, she is also a Bene Genesserit. These are highly trained manipulators, trainers, advisors who can judge most people's character better than anybody else in the room. She would not allow someone into her personal space if they wouldn't be good hearted, and she wouldn't accept the lower standing if she wouldn't admire him. He must be reliable, honest, treat his people well and make smart decisions as a leader.
But with multiple of the Jessica scenes the movie lost my support during the first time watching it. Bene Gesserit are not just good at judging, they also have a good understanding how each action reflects and impacts other people. Without a higher purpose they would never show their emotions openly. In this situation, when everybody is nervous, she would not choose to show her own fear, but would perform a scene with Leto I that would give the people trust in leadership and a sense of purpose.
Nowadays we would probably not consider this good leadership anymore, but the books have been written in another time. And now that I study the movie more in-depth, I think that maybe there is a purpose behind adapting the behaviour of the Bene Gesserit. I hope in part 2 we learn more about the reasoning behind the different style.
I’m blown away. Absolutely incredible explanation. I loved the movie at face value and will def watch again with a deeper understanding of its editing. Wow. Thank you very much, Thomas. Subscribed. And Ty for the info about the editor’s cut channel as well.
What a great video, Thomas. Congrats!
I see you’ve done a massive work of editing yourself in this essay-like video. Great content!
6:26 - That is not _a break in continuity,_ though. Continuity doesn't mean real-time, continuous coverage. It just means scenes in a sequence are chronologically consistent. This is very different from the visions / voice scenes mentioned earlier, where some actions seem to get "rolled back" (or are shown despite never actually happening outside of a specific characters' head).
8:30 - This is not really a matter of _continuity_ (or discontinuity), though. The grass shot doesn't "continue" into the water shot, the two are essentially independent, chronologically, and he could touch them in the opposite order without a significant change in meaning. It's about emotional _consistency_ and visual _narrative,_ not continuity in the film editing sense. Those are different concepts, and confusing them somewhat undermines your original point about the use of (actual, deliberate, meaningful) discontinuity in the scenes with the voice and the visions.
Also, it may have been worth mentioning that "montage" is simply the French word for "editing" (and the French actually call that specific style of editing an "edited sequence" or an "episodic sequence" - which is pretty self-explanatory).
I agree with you. He is crediting the editor for the director's work.
No, You’re all wrong. It’s “Gobble Jamal”.
i went to the comments just to find this
Jumping in time from one clip to another is extremely normal, so I wouldn't give the sequence with hammering the tarp down too much attention as it's a completely usual edit. Apart from that, well done on the breakdown. I'm so looking forward to the next Dune
This movie was a completely different experience for me.
I did not skip and watch thoroughly and I did find it intriguing.
I am not movie smart. And obviously I didn't read the novels.
I guess that attributes to the different reviews.
As a layman trying to be appreciative of movie making, I guess it was very brave of them to make this movie the way it is.
Especially how most audiences get too hyped or prefer fast paced action movies.
Especially when there's something like Dune or Arrival.
I remember watching Arrival in theatre. When movie was over most of the audience were upset that there was no action. One said I wanted to see a fight, space ships, fighter planes falling, some blood, lot of bodies.
But I did enjoy the movie. And it's really bold of such movie makers trying to bring out these little minute details with sounds, visuals, less dialogues, zero over the top background music which kicks your adrenalin.
The star cast of Dune seems great but I didn't really like Timothee's role in it. I don't know why.
"Jom Gabbar"
After watching this amazing video, I gotta ask......
Any uploads on "The Batman" ?😬
I have learned so much from this. I got zero background in filmmaking and editing, but you explain so clearly that even I can understand and appreciate it.
I really appreciate the technical disambiguation of the editing language used in this film, though wordy and lacking substance, encouraging this mental attitude about such an important film serves only to advance the craft. Mr. Walker's interview will always be an order of magnitude more important than the meta critique of his work. In the last 20 years the internet has allowed us to simultaneously worship experts while presenting ourselves as one. Ironically this means that many of us would never see Mr. Walker's interview without the verbose commentary in its wake. So hats off for that.
The visual mood-scape for the film is fantastic, but the more I reflect on Denis Villeneuves' "Dune" the less I like it from the story telling perspective. This video is fluff and puff for cinematic tricks, not for story telling.
Yea. The second movie better have plot and conflict.
Its not a break of continuity. Its simply a mental image that is intercut.
Thomas I really like the way you describe these subtle communications in films. I have learned to watch movies through a different perspective after watching your videos. Amazing work! I love your videos man 😊🙂
This is an incredible analysis of.one of my favorites movies. Thanks for explaining things that I didn't notice. Amazing work
with all that said, I slept 3 or 4 times to complete this "masterpiece" of rhythm, then my brother watched, he slept 3 times and did not complete the movie. My girlfriend give it a try, she slept 5 times to complete. I like the movie, but masterpiece of rhythm is not one of its strong points. Its inovative, yes. But is just differente. Breaking rules is important to give a fresh thing, but is not without flaws. You can say whatever you want how groundbreaking it is, but if every movie was that slow you would call it bad rythim.
Stop using tiktok.. Your brained cant handle whole movie because it trained by watching shorts
Are you making an other oscar beast edditing video this your, or can we just assume that Dune should win.
Really superb analysis and illustration of the ideas from the Art of the Cut interview with Joe Walker, really enjoyed this. Thank you. I think most of my favourite movies of the last few years are directed by Denis Villeneuve, Roger Deakins, Joe Walker - what a team. Sicario, Arrival and Dune are probably my favourites - always excquisite attention to details.
As a related aside, Ezra Klein (on his podcast at NYT) did a nice interview of the short story writer George Saunders about his writing method. They talked about a theme that Saunders writes about in more detail in his book: that of "staying close to the reader" and always driving the progression of the story, which is quite similar to Joe Walker's aim of being just ahead of the viewer but never behind... in Saunders' book he critiques some of the best Russian short stories that conveyed so much information so tightly. I feel it's somehow relevant to the film/scrip medium for similar reasons; of course, Arrival was based on the short story by Ted Chiang.
Incredible narrative. Thank you.