Im not Kenyan but a Zimbabwean living in the UK for 25 years and I love watching Spice FM every morning. Spice FM gives me hope for democracy and accountability back home
I love this guest. She is right let’s go back to the beginning as to why we even need to approach these institutions? The past that defines us today and even who we get as leaders
CT you hit the nail on the head, we keep blaming the west for our ineptitude.. we misuse the funds and expect them to give us favourable terms while can't manage our finances.. let's be honest..
Thank you Peter and thank you CT! You are quite right. This blame game has to stop. Ruto is having a go at it again. And again instead of addressing the real problem; the mismanagement of funds snd finances and the outright theft of especially public coffers.
Bad loans are illegal even in the Bible and Quaran ... Reason being that any terms seem favorable in try short term but in the long term (unpredictable future) we get different results. Ask anyone who has ever had their vehicle repossessed .... And they will give you a picture. The person giving the loan is totally detached from the well being of the activities of the receiver or the thing that the money is participating in ... The owner gives money with expectations of automatic growth from doing basically nothing ... It's like the money is behaving like an immortal entity equal to a full human being ... But only indestructible and guaranteed to multiply. So the giver of the loan will always have EVER increasing power and control ... While the receiver is basically downgraded to a straight up GAMBLER working the odds. The truth of the matter is that if a venture fails ... ALL PEOPLE involved in it should count their losses! ... This is the right way .... Because it makes the lender to be an active participant in the work that his money does.
Debt is not the problem. Wanton corruption and mismanagement of our economy are the huge issues. Create an enabling environment for business to thrive. This is not rocket science. The infrastructure is already in place. Wholly crap.
On Kenya's external debt list of 5.28 trillion, the IMF is at number 5 with 335.6 billion. Why isn't Susan talking about the International Development Association, to which Kenya owes 1.6 trillion? What about the Exim Bank of China, which Kenya owes 880.98 billion? And what about Citigroup Global Markets/Deutschland AG and Europe AG, which Kenya owes 562 billion and 435 billion respectively?
Susan Otieno is incredibly brilliant 👌🏾 She articulates complex bilateral matters with sufficient depth and context. I was surprised CT was attempting to fail to recognize the negative impacts of colonialism baggage on African economies. Remarkable conversation, folks 👍🏾
CT has a point. We did not need to go to the IMF. Our leaders have mismanaged our economy, and now we have to borrow from a lender whose terms are egregious. Further, the idea of Africa's unity is not viable. We have been talking about it for ages, and we should be awake to the fact that it will never be.
@@bryannjuguna5775 Your point is not in dispute at all, and I do agree CT had valid points. My disagreement with one specific position he took arose from his insinuation that we can just carelessly dismiss the lasting impact of colonialism in African economies, and by the way, its continued existence in neocolonial form in modern day nations. If you deeply understand the modus operandi of these global financial institutions, they are detrimentally manipulative. It is one thing for us to get loans from them, and that must not be interpreted as a freeway for these institutions to take away our sovereignty to structure our financial framework as well as its supportive policies. One can easily argue that we took ourselves to the lenders and poorly managed our economies - yes, that can be true, but it still does not grant free pass into meddling with a people's sovereignty; neither does it change the reality that of colonial plunder that robbed Africa of its resources and disadvantaged her economically. As I argued, colonial concept is not many centuries old; neocolonialism is rife. If not so, Niger, Burkina Faso, Mali, etc. would not have fought hard to kick out Trojan regimes planted by the West to carry water on their behalf. Any African who does not appreciate the bigger picture and how the present is an extension of the past, cannot get anywhere. This is so because correct interpretation of history is critical in contextualizing the moment and informing the decisions we make for a future we believe we deserve. Let's keep fighting for a greater Kenya, greater cohesive Africa, and let's not miss the lessons of history even though we may miss the history lessons. Thanks
Basically it is the people vs IMF, and the political class has been on IMFs side while they loot the money. Kenya now needs leaders who are on the peoples side.
The next Gen Z protests should be about the audit of Kenyan debt, and the declaration of the odious debt then we go to court the people vs Goverment/the establishment. We are left to fight for ourselves against the political class
I think this one person hurt CT's feelings... until he went silent. She should say sorry. 😂😂😂 But I agree with both of them. We go to IMF as beggars and beggars are not choosers.
Wonderful conversation. This is rich information. IMF should be faced together with Africans because the governments continue to play 2nd fiddle. This truth needs to be explained in simple language for the commons to understand. It is time to come together and speak with one voice at IMF to stop dirty dealings with the girlible leaders of our time. If we fail then we are doomed.
Great discussion, I’m glad more the youth on the continent are understanding and engaging. A few things that are missing, what are the goals of IMF and the world bank? Is it an accident there’s corruption and stealing where the IMF goes? “Confessions or an economic hitman” is critical to understanding the structure. We also talk about how African countries waste and then go to then go to the IMF as a last resort. How much debt does the US and much of the West have verses Kenya’s debt to GDP? It is almost double Kenya. America can do that because it can simply print more money as the world reserve currency. How many countries can be the world’s reserve currency? What happens to the American economy if it’s not the reserve currency? The issues around education funding in Kenya, is America better? What is the cost and quality of services? What the level of corruption in government and corporate in the US? Are you following copying failed policies? This will help, you understand what we’re up against, not just the tip of the iceberg we keep talking about.
sometimes you just need a Gentleman like CT Muga to articulate facts, IMF is a UN financial instituion , a Bank to say, it is always at its descrection what it does to borrowers so member states lenders dnt lose thier money
Yes you're correct! In my opinion a bottom up approach is the best way. Amnesty to junior officers if they can give details of who instructed them. Kusalamiwa is a greater fear than going to EACC or court.
Yes we change by prioritizing money allocation to unnecessary department instead of continuity. By continuity means more money to research in order to improve on what we have.
CT is on the shoulda, woulda, coulda irritability mode today. We are here, the discussion is what next? Not how hard should we self-hate because we have only been shafted by the bad governance as we relaxed to ignorance and complicity or even passive tolerance to corruption? Much as she doesn't like being challenged to good argument either, and tinges some attitude, the CEO was on about the need for us to declare the doctrine of odius debt and run the neo-colonial opportunism out of town
We need to investigate what is taken by foreign countries in Africa without our permission. We need to use what we have (our income) to sustain ourselves as a country and a continent.
Countries like Germany I think are members of imf. They are not charged interest because they are given special drawing rights based on their quotas.so don't confuse issues please.
Their is no punishment meaning jail sentences for those who break the laws especially for the offices or people who are responsible for managing public affairs 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The problem is not IMF. The Constitution is clear. Parliament is responsible for prescribing the terms under which the national gov may guarantee loans. Equally Parliament is required to debate every audit report within 3 months of receiving it, and take appropriate action. So why haven't they been doing their job? When loans are not taken, it means projects meant to benefit citizens stall. When Parliament doesn't debate audit reports, it means we can't know for sure if public money is utilized lawfully and effectively. Article 226 allows that the holder of public office be held responsible for directing or approving unlawful use of public funds. So the Constitution already has the solutions, we need it implemented fully.
We should lobby these organizations and countries that are robbing Kenya in broad daylight jointly with their political partners in power........we don't need the loans and if they lend, they should tell where the money is or they don't have a contract with the people
Please if we are talking if democracy : That is the way it should be : Government if the people for the people : poor countries the people should live low until the can afford more
I am surprised you don't seem to understand. Kenyan people are living within their means, it's the politicians, who supposedly, live beyond their means and tale loans.
The IMF borrow from creditor nations and lend to debtor nations. The creditor nations need to be repaid with interest. If the IMF does not ensure that you pay back the debt you take, then the creditor nations will no longer lend. Then where will poor countries be? People are acting as if the IMF is saying raise tax revenue because they want to hurt Kenyans out of malice. They are saying raise tax revenue because the government is saying it is broke and then they are asking, "then how will you pay it back?", then the government comes back to increase taxes. What you need to ask is where the 2 trillion a year we raise locally, 60 Thika Roads a year, goes. Not blaming the IMF and engaging in wild irrational conspiracy theories that don't have any basis. The IMF is not responsible if you mismanage the monies they borrow, that's up to you. It's like taking an unsecured personal loan, wasting it on prostitutes and booze then blaming the bank when you cannot repay. The IMF does not tell you how to spend what you borrow, that is up to you and if they did, the same people could be crying about 'neo-colonisation' and 'impinging on sovereignty', it just concerns itself with whether you can pay back. If you borrow and waste on 30 Mercedes motorcades, up to you. Just make sure you pay back.
Debt cancellation? Can you even make that argument to your local bank😂? Our biggest external debt is to the Exim boys in China. They will not cancel debt to a middle income nation allied to the West. 😂
That is precisely my point..its fashionable to blame IMF today forgetting the biggest external debt is not IMF but the International Development Association which Kenya owes 1.6 trillion....and Exim Bank of China, which Kenya owes 880.98 billion.Susan is more of an activist than economist !
The presidency has announced salary revisions upward to the law enforcement after previous agreement of cross board salary freeze. Our leadership does not share our view of financial overburden. How can we blame lending partners, when we assure them of commitment and ability to pay?
There is no free money. If you borrow you have to pay back with interests. The important thing is to make sure you utilize the money you have borrowed properly without any being lost along the way!
It depends on your negotiating position .... In a person frame, it may mean just ignoring your local bank ... Wajipange. They will CRB you, just like IMF is doing to Kenya, but that's it. And you move in having learned your lesson. And you operate using CASH and LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS.
So did Kemyans not know that they have to pay a high orice to be friends with US. 😂😂😂 IMF World Bank JPMorgan are the grim reapers. They have come for their next sacrifices which is Kenya
Ordinary Kenyans have been begging IMF not to give Kenya any loans for years. The politicians still went ahead to borrow money which was mismanaged and stolen.
its appalling how many dont know `what IMF is and how operates, this Guest is as clueless and out of her depth, alot she has said is past! we cant keep talking about finance bill,. Same person who receives grants and relies from western nations to run her NGO.
Do your research and you will know we have more resources than DRC Congo 14 rare minerals worth more than 500 billion dollars if correctly mined,it's seems you don't know how much worth we have in mrima hills in Kwale county we have over 116,000 tonnes of Niobium that alone can run our economy for 12 yrs with a budget of 4 trillion Kenya shillings so google 1kg of Niobium how much is it worth you will know how much we are missing
CT you are very negative ... you are not providing solutions and you sound hopeless... Africa is uniting and we are reforming AU to make it effective... everybody borrows why should we get discriminated? CT do not seat there as an african and defend IMF or non-africans. Education system is not those numbers ,it is content of the curriculum CONTENT OF THE CURRICULUM!
Im not Kenyan but a Zimbabwean living in the UK for 25 years and I love watching Spice FM every morning. Spice FM gives me hope for democracy and accountability back home
True... Odious debt, illegally acquired should be interrogated....
I love this guest. She is right let’s go back to the beginning as to why we even need to approach these institutions? The past that defines us today and even who we get as leaders
CT you hit the nail on the head, we keep blaming the west for our ineptitude.. we misuse the funds and expect them to give us favourable terms while can't manage our finances.. let's be honest..
Thank you Peter and thank you CT!
You are quite right.
This blame game has to stop. Ruto is having a go at it again. And again instead of addressing the real problem; the mismanagement of funds snd finances and the outright theft of especially public coffers.
Brother's fight and live together. Africa can do things together period.
Bad loans are illegal even in the Bible and Quaran ... Reason being that any terms seem favorable in try short term but in the long term (unpredictable future) we get different results.
Ask anyone who has ever had their vehicle repossessed .... And they will give you a picture.
The person giving the loan is totally detached from the well being of the activities of the receiver or the thing that the money is participating in ...
The owner gives money with expectations of automatic growth from doing basically nothing ...
It's like the money is behaving like an immortal entity equal to a full human being ... But only indestructible and guaranteed to multiply.
So the giver of the loan will always have EVER increasing power and control ... While the receiver is basically downgraded to a straight up GAMBLER working the odds.
The truth of the matter is that if a venture fails ... ALL PEOPLE involved in it should count their losses! ... This is the right way .... Because it makes the lender to be an active participant in the work that his money does.
The lady was having a good conversation until she brought up CT's age. What does that have to do with the points he is raising?
The idea of unity in Africa is a big question to ponder further...
“If the culture of accountability was entrenched, this story of IZmF would not have occurred”!
CT, you are so, so right 👍
Beautiful presentation Susan. Beauty and brawn combined.
Good job Susan!!
Debt is not the problem. Wanton corruption and mismanagement of our economy are the huge issues. Create an enabling environment for business to thrive. This is not rocket science. The infrastructure is already in place. Wholly crap.
Debt is the big problem because it's borrowed outside the law. So, they use the debt to steal from Kenyans
On Kenya's external debt list of 5.28 trillion, the IMF is at number 5 with 335.6 billion. Why isn't Susan talking about the International Development Association, to which Kenya owes 1.6 trillion? What about the Exim Bank of China, which Kenya owes 880.98 billion? And what about Citigroup Global Markets/Deutschland AG and Europe AG, which Kenya owes 562 billion and 435 billion respectively?
Double standards and hypocrisy
True Any Loan That was Taken Illegally Not according to the law should not be paid
Simple they are not dictating to our government on matters economics
What we really need to know is how this money was used, down to the last cent! We cannot be paying for money we never saw.
Susan Otieno is incredibly brilliant 👌🏾 She articulates complex bilateral matters with sufficient depth and context. I was surprised CT was attempting to fail to recognize the negative impacts of colonialism baggage on African economies. Remarkable conversation, folks 👍🏾
CT has a point. We did not need to go to the IMF. Our leaders have mismanaged our economy, and now we have to borrow from a lender whose terms are egregious. Further, the idea of Africa's unity is not viable. We have been talking about it for ages, and we should be awake to the fact that it will never be.
@@bryannjuguna5775 Your point is not in dispute at all, and I do agree CT had valid points. My disagreement with one specific position he took arose from his insinuation that we can just carelessly dismiss the lasting impact of colonialism in African economies, and by the way, its continued existence in neocolonial form in modern day nations. If you deeply understand the modus operandi of these global financial institutions, they are detrimentally manipulative. It is one thing for us to get loans from them, and that must not be interpreted as a freeway for these institutions to take away our sovereignty to structure our financial framework as well as its supportive policies. One can easily argue that we took ourselves to the lenders and poorly managed our economies - yes, that can be true, but it still does not grant free pass into meddling with a people's sovereignty; neither does it change the reality that of colonial plunder that robbed Africa of its resources and disadvantaged her economically. As I argued, colonial concept is not many centuries old; neocolonialism is rife. If not so, Niger, Burkina Faso, Mali, etc. would not have fought hard to kick out Trojan regimes planted by the West to carry water on their behalf. Any African who does not appreciate the bigger picture and how the present is an extension of the past, cannot get anywhere. This is so because correct interpretation of history is critical in contextualizing the moment and informing the decisions we make for a future we believe we deserve. Let's keep fighting for a greater Kenya, greater cohesive Africa, and let's not miss the lessons of history even though we may miss the history lessons. Thanks
Basically it is the people vs IMF, and the political class has been on IMFs side while they loot the money. Kenya now needs leaders who are on the peoples side.
No we need ourselves foremost!
Leaderless, for that matter
Every.leader we appoint turns against us
The next Gen Z protests should be about the audit of Kenyan debt, and the declaration of the odious debt then we go to court the people vs Goverment/the establishment. We are left to fight for ourselves against the political class
The point is that people fight even when they are united.
The people of Africa love each other, it’s our pathetic government and that is why I am praying that the Kenyan people win this!
If the govt wanted to raise money, they could make cuts. They don't want to cut anything. Instead of cutting, they are giving themselves raises.
The American ambassador to kenya is "The De facto Gorvernor of Kenya.
I think this one person hurt CT's feelings... until he went silent. She should say sorry. 😂😂😂
But I agree with both of them. We go to IMF as beggars and beggars are not choosers.
And we only beg because we can’t manage our own affairs!
IMF is not forcing loans on Kenya.
Wonderful conversation. This is rich information. IMF should be faced together with Africans because the governments continue to play 2nd fiddle. This truth needs to be explained in simple language for the commons to understand. It is time to come together and speak with one voice at IMF to stop dirty dealings with the girlible leaders of our time. If we fail then we are doomed.
Great discussion, I’m glad more the youth on the continent are understanding and engaging. A few things that are missing, what are the goals of IMF and the world bank? Is it an accident there’s corruption and stealing where the IMF goes? “Confessions or an economic hitman” is critical to understanding the structure. We also talk about how African countries waste and then go to then go to the IMF as a last resort. How much debt does the US and much of the West have verses Kenya’s debt to GDP? It is almost double Kenya. America can do that because it can simply print more money as the world reserve currency. How many countries can be the world’s reserve currency? What happens to the American economy if it’s not the reserve currency? The issues around education funding in Kenya, is America better? What is the cost and quality of services? What the level of corruption in government and corporate in the US? Are you following copying failed policies? This will help, you understand what we’re up against, not just the tip of the iceberg we keep talking about.
sometimes you just need a Gentleman like CT Muga to articulate facts, IMF is a UN financial instituion , a Bank to say, it is always at its descrection what it does to borrowers so member states lenders dnt lose thier money
Susan Otieno is quite pretty! 😊
Where are past key personnel in The Treasury CS, PS in all this quagmire? Kibaki, Uhuru & Ruto have cancelled the Kenyan economy!
Yes you're correct! In my opinion a bottom up approach is the best way. Amnesty to junior officers if they can give details of who instructed them. Kusalamiwa is a greater fear than going to EACC or court.
Debt is slavery. Get rid of illegal debt and don't go back to the slave Master. Simple.
Very true that Kenya is rich and it is developing but there has been a problem with the economy
We need to stop blaming IMF, We blame ourselves the voters and the leaders we elect. We are a nation with negative values and we love corruption.
Yes we change by prioritizing money allocation to unnecessary department instead of continuity. By continuity means more money to research in order to improve on what we have.
Mudavadi accepted to takeover IMF debt, he has accumulated enough interest to service it.
CT is on the shoulda, woulda, coulda irritability mode today. We are here, the discussion is what next? Not how hard should we self-hate because we have only been shafted by the bad governance as we relaxed to ignorance and complicity or even passive tolerance to corruption? Much as she doesn't like being challenged to good argument either, and tinges some attitude, the CEO was on about the need for us to declare the doctrine of odius debt and run the neo-colonial opportunism out of town
We need to investigate what is taken by foreign countries in Africa without our permission. We need to use what we have (our income) to sustain ourselves as a country and a continent.
The guests answer resonates with my belief. We shouldn’t disconnect ourselves with the colonial project. The narrative about 1963 onwards is false
Countries like Germany I think are members of imf. They are not charged interest because they are given special drawing rights based on their quotas.so don't confuse issues please.
Their is no punishment meaning jail sentences for those who break the laws especially for the offices or people who are responsible for managing public affairs 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The problem is not IMF. The Constitution is clear. Parliament is responsible for prescribing the terms under which the national gov may guarantee loans. Equally Parliament is required to debate every audit report within 3 months of receiving it, and take appropriate action. So why haven't they been doing their job?
When loans are not taken, it means projects meant to benefit citizens stall. When Parliament doesn't debate audit reports, it means we can't know for sure if public money is utilized lawfully and effectively.
Article 226 allows that the holder of public office be held responsible for directing or approving unlawful use of public funds. So the Constitution already has the solutions, we need it implemented fully.
We think we should come out of IMF...it does not have our interest at heart
Why do we use foreign language to look for solutions to our problems…maybe the secret to our problems is out their if we use our African languages
Our problem is not language but corruption
We should lobby these organizations and countries that are robbing Kenya in broad daylight jointly with their political partners in power........we don't need the loans and if they lend, they should tell where the money is or they don't have a contract with the people
Ask questions right away!
COMOROS IS AN INDEPENDENT NATION. PLEASE PLEASE.
Please if we are talking if democracy : That is the way it should be : Government if the people for the people : poor countries the people should live low until the can afford more
I am surprised you don't seem to understand. Kenyan people are living within their means, it's the politicians, who supposedly, live beyond their means and tale loans.
The IMF borrow from creditor nations and lend to debtor nations. The creditor nations need to be repaid with interest. If the IMF does not ensure that you pay back the debt you take, then the creditor nations will no longer lend. Then where will poor countries be? People are acting as if the IMF is saying raise tax revenue because they want to hurt Kenyans out of malice. They are saying raise tax revenue because the government is saying it is broke and then they are asking, "then how will you pay it back?", then the government comes back to increase taxes. What you need to ask is where the 2 trillion a year we raise locally, 60 Thika Roads a year, goes. Not blaming the IMF and engaging in wild irrational conspiracy theories that don't have any basis. The IMF is not responsible if you mismanage the monies they borrow, that's up to you. It's like taking an unsecured personal loan, wasting it on prostitutes and booze then blaming the bank when you cannot repay. The IMF does not tell you how to spend what you borrow, that is up to you and if they did, the same people could be crying about 'neo-colonisation' and 'impinging on sovereignty', it just concerns itself with whether you can pay back. If you borrow and waste on 30 Mercedes motorcades, up to you. Just make sure you pay back.
Debt cancellation? Can you even make that argument to your local bank😂? Our biggest external debt is to the Exim boys in China. They will not cancel debt to a middle income nation allied to the West. 😂
That is precisely my point..its fashionable to blame IMF today forgetting the biggest external debt is not IMF but the International Development Association which Kenya owes 1.6 trillion....and Exim Bank of China, which Kenya owes 880.98 billion.Susan is more of an activist than economist !
The presidency has announced salary revisions upward to the law enforcement after previous agreement of cross board salary freeze. Our leadership does not share our view of financial overburden. How can we blame lending partners, when we assure them of commitment and ability to pay?
There is no free money. If you borrow you have to pay back with interests. The important thing is to make sure you utilize the money you have borrowed properly without any being lost along the way!
It depends on your negotiating position .... In a person frame, it may mean just ignoring your local bank ... Wajipange.
They will CRB you, just like IMF is doing to Kenya, but that's it.
And you move in having learned your lesson. And you operate using CASH and LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS.
So did Kemyans not know that they have to pay a high orice to be friends with US. 😂😂😂 IMF World Bank JPMorgan are the grim reapers. They have come for their next sacrifices which is Kenya
Ordinary Kenyans have been begging IMF not to give Kenya any loans for years. The politicians still went ahead to borrow money which was mismanaged and stolen.
This woman's view of the world has been built by consuming alot of fiction, painfully disconnected from reality.
its appalling how many dont know `what IMF is and how operates, this Guest is as clueless and out of her depth, alot she has said is past! we cant keep talking about finance bill,. Same person who receives grants and relies from western nations to run her NGO.
Lipeni madeni acheni pang'ang'a nyingi hazisaidii nchi mbona muchukue Kama hamtaki kulipa
That is a dream and propaganda. Soon the shilling will hit 200 to a dollar. Hence gas ⛽️ will be 300ksh per liter. Kenya is poor.
Do your research and you will know we have more resources than DRC Congo 14 rare minerals worth more than 500 billion dollars if correctly mined,it's seems you don't know how much worth we have in mrima hills in Kwale county we have over 116,000 tonnes of Niobium that alone can run our economy for 12 yrs with a budget of 4 trillion Kenya shillings so google 1kg of Niobium how much is it worth you will know how much we are missing
CT you are very negative ... you are not providing solutions and you sound hopeless... Africa is uniting and we are reforming AU to make it effective... everybody borrows why should we get discriminated? CT do not seat there as an african and defend IMF or non-africans. Education system is not those numbers ,it is content of the curriculum CONTENT OF THE CURRICULUM!