DON'T BE THAT PILOT...
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Hello fellow Aviators! Watch out for rogue airplanes pulling out in front of you on the runway. We fly from the home base to Wichita and have some good convos along the way. Jump in and come along!
Happened to me during my PPL test, guy pulled out, I called go around, DPE said "my controls," took over, did an S turn, slowed way down, and handed it back to me at 50' after the T&G. He started writing, I asked if I failed, he said "Nope, but that guy's getting a call"
Doh! I wish this pilot would have made a simple radio call. 30 second extension on downwind would have been easy.
A DPE took over the controls instead of letting you slide over and go around? That’s hard to believe.
*shrug* Dunno what to say. I probably overreacted in going around, maybe he was worried about how I was going to handle the guy coming off the runway while I was trying to go around over him. This was 30 years ago, so my memory of how close is questionable. But that's why I asked if I failed, as soon as he took over I assumed it was over.
Don’t be THAT guy!!!! Nice handling of it!
Thanks there were a lot of mental gymnastics going on in those moments.
First off, I think you handled this well. You were aware of and monitoring for the potential conflict but in the end their was none and you were just as ready to land as you were to go around if needed. Now, secondly, I'll share that this didn't raise a single hair on the back of my neck. A plane reporting that they're taking off with no delay while I'm still in my base to final turn is not uncommon in my short-time experience (just under 500 hours). So again, I think you did the right thing, continued your approach and no conflict ever arose so you landed. Good stuff.
Thank you for checking it out!
You handled the situation well! kept your cool and navigated the situation.
Thanks!
Nice video! I like your flow and attention. Honestly, I wouldn’t have an issue with a turbine taking off in front of me if I’m still a mile away in a 210. Also I read some of the comments about crossing mid field at TPA. That’s exactly how I do it! And for good reason. The 500’ above camp doesn’t seem to be worried about that same turbine (or a jet) being in the pattern at there same altitude as they cross downwind. I don’t remember when the aim switched to the 500’ and teardrop entirely but I don’t see it as safer at all.
@@mikeshort3838 thank you! Iplan on revisiting this again in another video, it has come up again.
Glad that you are back, you are one of my favorites.
Thank you sir, blue skies and tailwinds!
As a legacy turbo 206 owner, I appreciate the details of your power settings as well as your disciplined procedure callouts. I cruise at 65-70% power, LOP at 13GPH with CHT’s 365-370. Please keep producing your videos. I will be at Fun in Sun this spring on Tuesday and if you are there I will look for you. Thanks, Rick
Please do! I am hard to miss.
I live in Wichita, and fly out, into Jabara and this happens alot more than I like also.
Last summer I had a Learjet come in hot while I was on base to 18, and actually had to abort my approach. Looked over my left shoulder after I left bank to the east and drooped down below his glide path. Result: he flew right behind and by me squawking on his radio " I don't see you N552AT"????
Really, he almost caused a mid air collision!!!
N452AT signing off.
Wow! Do you ever go into Stearman for lunch? I have wanted to but never made the time.
He was already on the runway when you turned final (was one or more of his calls edited out?), sounds and looks like, and you reported a mile and half out. He was on the numbers and on the roll and gone well before you got there. And you crossed over midfield at traffic pattern altitude, not 500’ above it? And you got an alert at 500’ still on the base. Not sure I put all of that on the young’un.
The audio is not cut from the point I make the call that I am turning final. I also did my best to sync the freeze frame. Check the VASI and his orientation on the runway and see if that changes your thoughts. Thank you for watching and for the feedback.
I think you handled this fine. Flying pilot controlled airports can be some of the most challenging. Great practice though for those who like to go to fly-in events!
You are correct about that.
First time I’ve seen any of your videos. I’ve been flying as an airline pilot for 23 years, just getting back into GA flying and considering buying a plane. I had about 8 hours in a t210 when I was flight instructing and it’s still one of my favorite planes. Would love to find one. First thing I noticed about you is your dedication to a routine, and your etiquette. I wish everyone would have your habits!! Don’t ever question your decision to self critique your decisions. I think that’s one of your best qualities. If you’re not questioning your own decisions, then you’re not learning from the situation. I’ll be following you from now on. Thanks for the great content!
Wow, thank you for the kind words and affirmation. Blue skies and tailwinds!
@@TheFlyingSalesman You’re welcome. Forgot to mention that I had an ugly stick back in the day as well. I made a cutout cockpit and stuffed a snoopy inside. 🤣 Pretty cool to see someone paint their plane with those colors.
Great explaining and talking about what you doing... That way if it's not right you are working to make it right or to explain and anticipate of why it is NOT.
Thank you, and you are right it helps a lot.
You did what you should have done, let it develop and be ready to go around. Didn't look that close to me.
Thanks!
Didn't look that close to me either. But then the camera can be deceptive.
Radio calls.. Is the key, you did everything right! Few weeks back I had similar experience but with me being on the ground, making radio calls and taking off runway 6, someone reporting he is landing the opposite direction he was turning base and I was on the roll, the winds were calm. So the other guy did turn around and let me take off. Sometimes the other person doesn’t want to hear and who is right here?
Just a sim pilot but love aviation videos. I subbed because I like your explanations.
"Just a sim pilot..." Welcome fellow Aviator!
@TheFlyingSalesman Thx much. My dad flew professionally first in the Canadian Air Force, then Air ambulance with almost 17000 hours . I have just under 1400 hours talking to Virtual ATC (vatsim). It is addictive for sure. Happy safe flying. 👍👍
@@mrsaskridersThat is cool, thank you for coming along!
I think you did very well. Keeping your emotions in check gives you the ability to make good decisions. Not sure if this is helpful because I suck at writing. But I would recommend taking the initiative and communicate with the turbine pilot. I know in spots that I have a concern, talking with the other pilot or departure or approach or tower or ground or whom ever, helps. Be sure to be calm and focusing on safely executing the task at hand. Communication (the third C) has always helped lower tension, better the safety aspect, and reduce complications. Thank you for the video. 😄
Wise words, I will do better! Thanks!
Seriously??? He didn’t “pull out on you.” He’s a turbine on the roll and you are 1.5 NM out in a Cessna piston. You might want to get some experience in the northeast like the NY airspace. They would have two go before you landed. I have had controllers setting me down on the runway just as another aircraft is lifting off the same runway. No one would get anywhere in the northeast if they waited for you to land. No offense, but there are a lot more busy airspace and airports than the casual mid-west.
Hmmm, two you say? Yee haw! All kidding aside, thanks for watching and let me know if you make it to SNF or OSH. Blue skies!
Matt, you did fine with approach to landing segment; very good situational awareness, appreciate your elaboration about the other airports and traffic nearby and why you felt continuing to land was still safe. Just found your channel but will watch what I can......(your old college buddy, Mr. Coffey)
Holy smokes! You are literally one of my earliest “Fellow Aviators”! Thank you for the kind words.
I'm a lineman in Central FL at my local airport, and also private pilot with tailwheel endorsement currently working on instrument rating. 320 hours TT. Glad I found your channel!
Welcome fellow Aviator! If you can make it to Sun N Fun, come by the Aero-Mach Wilco booth and say hi.
I'm hoping to attend but I'm not sure what day I'll be there yet. What days will you be there? @@TheFlyingSalesman
My humble suggestion--that flight path should not have been at pattern altitude crossing over the runway to join right downwind. You should have been overflown the runway 500' over pattern altitude for 2 nm, then descended and turned to pattern altitude to join the 45 right downwind. You were also very low at base to final when you thanked "Gladys" for announcing "500". That was well before the guy announced that he was on the roll so there was no consternation about the fella taking off that caused you to be that low. Don't do that. I fly a TR182 which has the same characteristics of the T210 which I've also flown--nose heavy and has a great sink rate. I always fly high on approach because I can use this to my advantage. After the guy said he was on the roll you announced 1.5 mi final which meant that you'd already were on an extended downwind when you called it. IMHO that was plenty of time for the fella to take off ahead of you so no worries there. Furthermore, Jabara has a 6000' runway. CAT I permits 3000' separation and CAT II permits 4500' separation landing on the same runway...way safe for both of you. Blue Skies, looking forward to reading Hangar Tales and thanks for this video! Paul
Thank you for the heads up. I need to research the teardrop further. I have heard conflicting interpretations.
Just found you on RUclips.
I’m a retired Boilermaker Local 83.
Purchased a 1960 Cessna 172 8 years ago when I retired. Fly about 130 hours a year.
Outstanding! Welcome aboard fellow Aviator and thank you for coming along! Will you make it to OSH or SNF this year?
Just found your channel and subscribed. Thank you for creating the video!
Thank you for becoming a fellow Aviator!
I had a De Haviland Dash 8-200 pull out in front of me while I was on my introductory flight. The instructor side stepped, splitting the difference between the runway center and an imaginary right downwind. The co-pilot had eyes like saucers when they overtook us during their climb.
I was short final at KMAF and tower cleared a CRJ to takeoff while it was still taxiing out. I went around that time and side stepped and passed him while he was still on the runway. Lots of room out there in West Texas that I didn't have this time.
Don’t let the joy of flying be taken away from distractions and disappointments
My next video that drops next week has the perfect ending that embodies this. Sunset and smooth air, it was awesome!
I’m in the aviation biz. Enjoy your videos.
It’s an awesome industry to be in. Thank you for watching.
I would have been concerned with wake turbulence given the other aircraft was bigger. Landing short was your best option there. Nice video.
Thanks!
Hi, I’ve got a turbo 210 and model and I would love to share the operating temperatures with you. I’ll make note on the next time I go and we can compare notes Gary.
Perfect! I am curious about what other people see.
Thought this was a 172 until I heard those rotation and cruise speeds! Would love to fly a 210 someday.
Lol, not too different just a little faster!
Wholesome video... keepin' comin' subbed!
Thank you and that's the plan!
Glad to back in my favorite aircraft again the flying salesman
Thanks for coming along!
Why do you switch tanks? Is it a way to conserve fuel? Im curious. Thank you!! Love your content , makes me feel more at ease in flying somehow , theres a lot you don’t get to experience in training that worries me if is “normal” but your videos gives me more confidence. So thank you again!
My model 210 only has Right-OFF-Left, I do not have "both" like some aircraft. My fuel management routine is takeoff on fuller tank, fly for 30 min and then switch tanks. After that I switch every hour and this keeps only a 10 gallon difference in weight between each tank. I will sometimes change that if the flight is an hour and thirty minutes and fly 45 on one tank and then switch, this will leave me on the fuller tank for landing.
Ohhh okay that makes sense thank you!
Super informative content, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it. Blue skies!
First video of yours I've seen. Great job! Like another mentioned, crossing midfield at pattern altitude is a no no IMHO. With the entry you had you could have flew over midfield 500 ft above TPA at least 2 miles out then turned to join the downwind but arrived at TPA prior to joining. Regardless, I enjoyed your video and you have a good flow with your checklists.
Thank you for watching! I am going to make a video on this topic (it will be a couple of months because of my production schedule) to cover this. I am going to reference the FARs, AC90-66C, and the AIM. I also plan on lining up some CFIs to discuss. Most of my videos are in aircraft but this one may not be. Nevertheless, thanks for watching and blue skies! -Matt
He had plenty of time to take off before you
no question. The dude was in a Challenger jet...
Another Louisiana flyer! Had a situation playing chicken with cropduster on the runway during a lesson, needless to say , radios at non towered are very important
And situational awareness!
Airline Pilot Instructor 757/767 Delta. Enjoying your site.
That's cool! Thank you for the compliment. Blue skies!
Formerly owned 1982 T210N N2085U also based at KICT. Would see N6048N then also based KICT then. Now fly a C182.
Yessir, It was based there until I joined the company in '07 and still come in and out from time to time.
See ya 2AT, have a good flight!
Yeah, that cut off wasn’t cool at all. Especially since you had announced that you’re on downwind, so he could’ve said something then. He could’ve even said something to you when you were turning your right base, and asked if it was OK if he go out on the roll. But the wait until you turn final, that kind of sucked! I’ll admit that I clicked on this video for that thumbnail, but I enjoyed more than just that ending. I really appreciate your enthusiasm for aviation, since I feel the same way. I’m just currently working on my instrument, and I’m still renting aircraft. I’m hopingthat I get my instrument rating, and find a bird on my own. Anyway, keep doing what you’re doing, it’s good stuff! Fly well, brother!
You too! Don’t stop and make it happen.
This happened to me at Cambridge-Dorchester Regional Airport (CGE) on the eastern shore of Maryland, Yes there is video.
CGE is uncontrolled, I was on a short final, and a pilot called "taxying into position and holding". That is illegal at an uncontrolled field.
I went all Navy and called "foul deck, waving off". I did say going around as well.
Lol, I like that. “Waving off!”
@@TheFlyingSalesmanYeah, former Navy Aircrew guy here. The things were the same just the language was different
See you at SnF! 50 years of spring break for pilots.
LOL! I look forward to meeting you.
Nice Work!
Thanks and I appreciate you subscribing!
Not a flying comment, but would suggest you adjust levels on your audio recorder. Your audio is clipping, try dialing back the level a bit on your recorder. Your coms audio is a bit better, it’s your intercom levels that are clipping. Thus you might just pull back the intercom volume a little.
I will try that, audio has been and continues to be my biggest hurdle in this process. Thank you for the tip and for coming along. I will do better. Blue skies!
You said you had 115 knots on the downwind. Maybe he thought he had a lot more time. He’s probably used to the typical 60 or 70 knot downwind.
Maybe my Arkansas-ese made the Centurion part of the call sign hard to understand. Lol!
Meant to ask you, are you a CFI or CFII. How many hours total time do you have and how many hours do you have in that type airplane? how many years have you been flying? I’m thinking about starting my initial CFI training at age 62. Aviation has always been a great business if you can get into it. I didn’t go into my CFI 35 years ago because like today there’s really not a lot of money in it to support a family. It is more like a famine business until you obtain enough hours to get to the minor leagues. In your case being a salesman helps. I am a terrible salesman. I couldn’t even sell a kindergarten class a box of ice cream sticks who are doing an art project.
LOL, I like that analogy. I have given you some info in other responses but I will try to give you some resume highlights.
LA Tech Grad Pro Av Major
CSEL CMEL Instrument/Tail wheel
North of 2500 hours with over 2000 in 48N since 2007 (I have flown over 30 different a/c models testing or certifying avionics systems)
Started working in avionics in summers between college years, graduated and came back to that shop as GM.
Went to BFG for 13 months; 9/11 caused a job change.
Ran Triumph Instruments in Texas as GM/VP for 7 years
Hired by Aero-Mach in '07 to fly and see customers and grow our instrument repair business. Glass panels have diminished that market but AM has/is diversifying and has purchased other divisions (Wilco and TCO).
I have always been in the role of sales/tech rep. I try to learn my product lines so I can be an asset to my customers that are working with our products on a daily basis.
I have flown coast to coast and almost border to border in the course of my duties at AM. However there are many pilots with more hours and experience than me and I have always felt it was important to keep learning, so I tend to ask a lot of questions.
The RUclips channel was born out of my colleagues in Wichita wondering what I do. So this is a way for them to see where I am going. The response to the IFR videos has been surprising so I have been trying to share my process in the course of my customer visits. People seem to be more interested in the "how' than they are the "where".
While building time I have always tried to glean as much as I can from pilots with more experience than me. RUclips gives me a platform to pass that info along in the hopes it helps someone else. What you see is not me trying to be an expert, it is me showing you what I do. And by all means, PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE A BETTER WAY! I want to keep learning and keep getting better too.
So go get that CFI and pay it forward. Don't forget to pass along those classic one liners that really do have an impact... "It's always easier to explain why you went around, than why you didn't."
Thanks for coming along.
- Matt
@@TheFlyingSalesman Thank you for your response. Looks like you got me well beat on time. I have the same exact ratings you do, but I’ve been flying for 45 years on and off as a renter. Due to family commitments and other reasons, I have only been able to, obtain just north of 600 hours total time. I have flown 16 different aircraft, and two types of gliders never became CFI as I mentioned because I could not make a living from it. So, I just plug along and keep my instrument and night current by flying once or twice a month. Some people ask me when are you going to stop flying? You’re kind of getting old. I tell them do you know how you know when you are old? You cannot go to an antique store by yourself and stand in one place more than five minutes without somebody trying to come over and buy you. Then they ask are these parts all original? I tell them yes but please don’t touch anything. They’re liable to fall off. All the stuff you have to re-remember to pass a CFI check ride. It not just the flight portion. My doctor told me I can try some memory enhancement stuff like Prevagen. So I tried to take his advice, the problem was I kept forgetting to take it. Keep the blue side up…and if you are ever in KJEF. Look me up. One more thing on the topic of steam gauges. I used to love and shoot many NDB approaches. I miss the old RMI and ADF. Today you are hard pressed to find a functioning radio. Never really understood what the BFO was used for. This day I hate aircraft with a DG. Seems like no matter how many I get into every five minutes I look at the compass and I’m having to correct for precession. I know those instruments cannot be that out of whack. I think it’s just with all the electronics and cell phones in the area. The whiskey compass tends to wander a little bit more than settle down. I prefer an HSI that is slaved or even better yet and Aspen panel.
I think you made the right decision to slow down for extra spacing. Alls well that ends well. Did you look for Ron and Janis Parr from Parr 4 the Course?
Ha! I didn’t, but I have seen their channel. Will have to keep an eye out.
CFI here I’ve watched 1000s of flying videos and you are a true professional
Thank you, that is quite the compliment.
Dude relax, the departing traffic was absolutely no factor. And btw don't announce that you are clear of the active runway when you are still on the active runway.
You are correct, I missed it by a plane length. I will do better! Thanks for watching.
Why does what must be one of the most expensive headsets and microphones have the sound quality of 2 Dixie Cups and a string?
LOL, It doesn't seem right does it? It is actually the audio panel that controls the quality of all radio and intercom transmissions. That, and audio going into a GoPro. Thanks for coming along, blue skies and tailwinds!
Is ur #1 cyl reading hot? We found the probe was reading heat off the turbo and giving false high readings- heat wrap on the probe wire fixed the reading
That has not been an issue for me, #1 is my coolest cylinder.
You didn't mention compression testing. What is the metal composition of piston rings, piston bore? How fine can iron be? I am used to seeing filings on other than airplane engines. I am not used to the oil being tested. I am curious how fine iron can be versus the larger filings you would expect a filter to collect. So the general question is, do parts wear out with both large and micro particles? That would make sense to me. I would suspect some ratio of large particulates to micro particles. Unless all the wear can be at the micro level with no large particles. A significant wear with no large particles would seem unusual to my unprofessional mind. I think such wear would be ideal, whereby all the wear is so even and slow that it only forms micro particles where the filter would show, little to no wear at all. I have much to learn about this topic. I do not have a necessity to learn it, just pure curiosity.
The T210 comes out of annual next week and I am going to go in depth on what we found in a future video. Short version, the plane sat for about 30 days in July and the cylinder walls got surface rust on them. This is the iron that is showing up the in sample. Nothing in the filter.
@@TheFlyingSalesman thank you. Rust. I didn't consider rust. Of course bare metal will rust. I can imagine many airplanes that sit for months before being operated. I would suspect only the bore would rust and not the piston rings which I expect to be protected from rust. The amount of rust, the rate of rust and the depth of the rust I find a worthy topic to understand. How the moisture develops in the cylinders is also interesting, given the temperatures that one would expect to eliminate water, though it may only seem intuitive. The perfect airplane engine cannot fail. The perfect fuel cannot contain contaminates. How close to perfect can we come? Here's an engineering idea. When the engine shuts down, a fine spray of oil coats the cylinder walls once the temperature is appropriate but before water can condense upon the bore.
Cool video...
Thanks!
buddy likely underestimated your speed on final, but I don't think it was all that big a deal.... he left you a mile of separation. but... yes, he could have asked you to extend the downwind.
I agree with you on that. I don't believe he would have pulled had he had realized.
this IS MORE THAN DONT BE THAT GUY LOL !! This is more of a did u loose your common sense
Sub number 734. I’m just a Microsoft flight sim pilot. Looking to learn something
Welcome aboard fellow Aviator! What is your preferred airplane and what kind of flying do you like to do?
@@TheFlyingSalesman only ga flight was in 172 Skyhawk. That is my preferred to fly in the sim with the g1000 glass cockpit. It seems like a comfortable plane. Live in picayune Mississippi near kmjd. Worked up near minden, Louisiana about 25 years ago.
@@Rip1Outdoors Very cool! I will try to capture more ATC airline audio for you.
What was the issue?
It all worked out, just playing it back and wondering if there was a better/safer alternative. What do you think? Safer to land or to go around?
@@TheFlyingSalesman Safer to land, looked like he was well off before got to the runway. He could have communicated his intentions better.
What is the title of your book??
Hangar Tales... by Matt Farrell, Available on Amazon as a paperback and on Kindle.
Next time maybe we can get a TFR in place for your arrival.. lol.. joking.. IMHO, the departing pilot did nothing wrong.. he posed no conflict with your approach... he probably didn't expect you to be barreling down final at that speed either.. he was probably expecting typica 85-90 kt piston cessna final.. but as you see, he was long gone.. and for wake turbulence to be an issue you would have had to put it closer to "other" numbers.. yes, he could have asked you to extend.. he really didn't need to, so why would he.. he could have waited.. or left another day.. any number of things... to me it's just a "non issue" issue.. closer than you might like, but certainly not even close to unsafe.. another 25-30 seconds, then he would have been squeezing in a little tight.. i've seen one other of your videos and you seem to be a good pilot.. you handle your craft very professional and have good technique... i'll sub and look forward to seeing more..
LOL! a TFR, I like that! Thank you for the thoughtful feedback and compliments. Blue skies and tailwinds!
*promo sm* 🌈