I thought they were just random examples of how it would work, not specifically part of the mapping. So I tried to find a general solution of what to pick if you don't know the mapping at all. This turned out to be beyond me (and might be impossible?)
If you only have the basic rules - that asking for x gets you y and z (x,y,z three different prizes), that every prize is available twice, and that getting the same prize twice cancels out that prize - then you can narrow it down to 13 possible minimal picks to get precisely the two prizes you want - any of the ten possible pairs, or any of the three individual prizes you don't want. You need more information to figure out anything beyond "don't ask for just one of the two things you want (nor nothing nor all 5 prizes, nor everything but one of the two you want)"
Between the watching the video and getting around to thinking about a solution, I had forgotten that examples had been given. I didn't send an answer. This teaches me a lesson that I'll soon forget.
Rules unclear. From hearing the puzzle's description, it sounded like whenever you ask for a certain prize, you receive a random selection of 2 other prizes, not a set correlation that can be repeated. From my understanding, asking for a car twice could yield nothing, but it could also yield all 4 other prizes. One comment on that video said otherwise, that the correlation between the request and the 2 other prizes was set, but that didn't sound like what was presented in the video.
i started by noting that B & P could be swapped, because they appear symmetrically in the problem. Slap a WLOG at the beginning and solve for a single solution, knowing it will work. You can also take the given equations one at a time. The first is enough to figure out A(C) and A(G) are, the second gives you A(B) and A(P), and by process of elimination you get A(D). Didn't think to solve it with characteristic 2, this is a nice solution 😊
I did not solve it his initial way (closer to the second part of his explanation), but I'm very glad I got the right answer anyway (indeed, I got Car + Diamond = Car + Diamond as my first result)! :D
original puzzle video was not clear that asking for x could not give you x i.e. A(x) != x + y which makes eliminating the 1 ask possibility impossible (I think)
A little late to the party, but xor addition is used in cryptography. The double lock method relies on it. A applies encryption sends to B. B applies encryption sends to A. A removes own encryption and sends to B. B removes encryption and has message. Message is never sent without encryption, and keys do not need to be pre shared.
Knowing that they never give you any time to "work it out" on a game show, I would ask for the car, the bogies, and the poke in the eye. Gets me the car and the diamond. Sure, I get the bogies and the poke in the eye, too. But, hey, I've got the car and the diamond.
I first solved it with a computer but then I made a table and figured it out using logic: First, naming an item cannot result in itself, so cross these off. (left column is the thing you name, upper row is the prize you get) \ C D G B P C X _ _ _ _ D _ X _ _ _ G _ _ X _ _ B _ _ _ X _ P _ _ _ _ X C+G gives B+P. This gives 2 possibilities. C gives B and G gives P or vice versa. Besides that, they must have a prize in common. The only thing they can have in common is D. Then we can cross a few off. (+ is always true, 1 and 2 are true in either one of 2 solutions) \ C D G B P C X + X 1 2 D _ X _ _ _ G X + X 2 1 B _ X _ X _ P _ X _ _ X C+B+P gives C+B+P+D. Either B or P must give C, but not both, so the other C must be given by D. C gives either B or P. B or P cannot cancel out, so either B must give P or P must give B. (They must give the opposite of what C gives) \ C D G B P C X + X 1 2 D + X _ _ _ G X + X 2 1 B _ X _ X 1 P _ X _ 2 X Columns B and P now have one remaining possibility and can be filled. This completed row D, meaning D cannot give G. This allows us to complete column G. Then column C. \ C D G B P C X + X 1 2 D + X X 1 2 G X + X 2 1 B 2 X + X 1 P 1 X + 2 X Now, in order to get D, we can either name C or G. If we name C, then we also have to name D to cancel out the B&P. If we name G, we have to name B and P as well. So the shortest solution is C+D.
This puzzle would have been more fun if we were explicitly told the rules, rather than a handwavy "i dunno, what if you ask for a car? maybe you'll get these two?"
I also did the matrix approach and initially wasn't if I made a mistake, since the correct answer seemed too simple. I wonder if there were people who misunderstood the question and just asked for what they wanted and accidentally got it right.
I think there will have been at least a few people who just asked for the two prizes they wanted, without doing any workings, but mostly that's because within the problem video James actually said "if you want to win something you just ask for it" so some people may have just chanced their luck that that was literally true for the two prizes we were aiming for, which it turned out to be.
I looked at the league table and saw that some people received 1000 points. How 500 points worked this time is explained below the table, but why did some people receive 1000 instead of between 2000 and 3000?
I'd been watching a lot of Cracking The Cryptic, so I went with the logic puzzle grid approach. And got miffed that I had to resort to bifurcation to solve it.
Right. Both bifurcations worked, and some did combine. Especially the key parts leading to the answer. So if you wanted different prizes, there might not be enough info in the puzzle to guarantee it.
I actually did it the way presented in the video, but only after partially filling the table and decided there are many possibilities to check. Also, if you use the matrix representation, then the car-diamond vector is an eigenvector. 🤯
Yeah I found it by just trying to figure out what the overlapping prizes are which had two solutions. Both led to the same answer. It almost felt like bifurcation in Sudoku
The puzzle didn't make any sense. Surely if I choose D, they could give me B+P. If I choose C, they could also give me B+P . Thus choosing D+C gives nothing.
It was never very clear from the problem video, or from this solution video, whether the fewest terms was required for a submitter to be deemed correct and get points, or whether all valid solutions, regardless of the number of terms, would be accepted as correct and earn the submitter points. So you may still get points anyway.
It was never very clear from the problem video, or from this solution video, whether the fewest terms was required for a submitter to be deemed correct and get points, or whether all valid solutions, regardless of the number of terms, would be accepted as correct and earn the submitter points. So you may still get points anyway.
Thanks again to James Grime for doing the 18th puzzle in MPMP (or rather, the 1st puzzle in JGJG). me: does this mean it was a bonus puzzle and we still have two mpmp's to go?
Initially I also had 4 but when checking if they really satisfied the original two combinations, two of them turned out to be invalid. Those two however gave me different results the the two valid ones...
Yeah, I'm the one of those people that didn't use the fact that adding them all up results in zero. The reason for this is James' exact wording: "two of the things will result in winning the car, two of the things result in winning the diamond and that same rule applies to all the prizes". My reasoning here was that you can get each possible single prize from the combination of two asked things. And that results in a solution of Goat + Bogies + Poke. I'm wondering if other people reasoned this way.
I found four valid solutions... and double checked them. I can prove it. Ask: B C D G P 1. bg dp cp db cg 2. cg dp cp db bg 3. cg db cb dp pg 4. pg db cb dp cg
I didn't understood the problem, and listening at the solution I'm even more confused.
"What does bogies mean? Is it nice?"
"No, it'snot."
What's so unpleasant about the wheel assemblies on trains?
"older teenagers are 14-16"
but there are 3 times as many teen years above this range than below it.
The first time I've seen Dr. Grime in a sweatshirt
I thought they were just random examples of how it would work, not specifically part of the mapping. So I tried to find a general solution of what to pick if you don't know the mapping at all. This turned out to be beyond me (and might be impossible?)
If you only have the basic rules - that asking for x gets you y and z (x,y,z three different prizes), that every prize is available twice, and that getting the same prize twice cancels out that prize - then you can narrow it down to 13 possible minimal picks to get precisely the two prizes you want - any of the ten possible pairs, or any of the three individual prizes you don't want.
You need more information to figure out anything beyond "don't ask for just one of the two things you want (nor nothing nor all 5 prizes, nor everything but one of the two you want)"
Yeah, the way he told the examples it was not clear that it was a crucial part of the rules.
Between the watching the video and getting around to thinking about a solution, I had forgotten that examples had been given. I didn't send an answer. This teaches me a lesson that I'll soon forget.
Rules unclear. From hearing the puzzle's description, it sounded like whenever you ask for a certain prize, you receive a random selection of 2 other prizes, not a set correlation that can be repeated. From my understanding, asking for a car twice could yield nothing, but it could also yield all 4 other prizes. One comment on that video said otherwise, that the correlation between the request and the 2 other prizes was set, but that didn't sound like what was presented in the video.
Exactly
This is exactly my complaint.
I love the last couple of seconds of this video :)
The poster on the left is a visualization of the size of Napoleon's armies over the course of a campaign, if I'm not mistaken
Indeed, you are correct. Specifically, his invasion of Russia. I think it's considered the first infographic published.
@@bbgun061 Yes it is. It is a very interesting infografic.
That poster is to infographics as bouba and kiki are to sound symbolism.
@@felipevasconcelos6736 I know the reference, but huh?
JAMES GRIME'S
JUST GROLUTIONS
"It wasn't very 2020."
A jar of a strangers bogies is especially bad in 2020.
I remember that infographic on the wall...
First thing I noticed 🤪
i started by noting that B & P could be swapped, because they appear symmetrically in the problem. Slap a WLOG at the beginning and solve for a single solution, knowing it will work. You can also take the given equations one at a time. The first is enough to figure out A(C) and A(G) are, the second gives you A(B) and A(P), and by process of elimination you get A(D). Didn't think to solve it with characteristic 2, this is a nice solution 😊
I did not solve it his initial way (closer to the second part of his explanation), but I'm very glad I got the right answer anyway (indeed, I got Car + Diamond = Car + Diamond as my first result)! :D
original puzzle video was not clear that asking for x could not give you x i.e. A(x) != x + y which makes eliminating the 1 ask possibility impossible (I think)
But is twice
A little late to the party, but xor addition is used in cryptography. The double lock method relies on it. A applies encryption sends to B. B applies encryption sends to A. A removes own encryption and sends to B. B removes encryption and has message. Message is never sent without encryption, and keys do not need to be pre shared.
I worked through the logic of it, and got the two item solution first, it didn't even occur to me to do it as Xor addition
Same
Knowing that they never give you any time to "work it out" on a game show, I would ask for the car, the bogies, and the poke in the eye. Gets me the car and the diamond. Sure, I get the bogies and the poke in the eye, too. But, hey, I've got the car and the diamond.
Poor goat. Just think of all the milk and cheese!
No showing off what the most popular answers were and potentially discussing why people may have gotten the wrong answer?
I first solved it with a computer but then I made a table and figured it out using logic:
First, naming an item cannot result in itself, so cross these off. (left column is the thing you name, upper row is the prize you get)
\ C D G B P
C X _ _ _ _
D _ X _ _ _
G _ _ X _ _
B _ _ _ X _
P _ _ _ _ X
C+G gives B+P. This gives 2 possibilities. C gives B and G gives P or vice versa.
Besides that, they must have a prize in common. The only thing they can have in common is D.
Then we can cross a few off. (+ is always true, 1 and 2 are true in either one of 2 solutions)
\ C D G B P
C X + X 1 2
D _ X _ _ _
G X + X 2 1
B _ X _ X _
P _ X _ _ X
C+B+P gives C+B+P+D. Either B or P must give C, but not both, so the other C must be given by D.
C gives either B or P. B or P cannot cancel out, so either B must give P or P must give B. (They must give the opposite of what C gives)
\ C D G B P
C X + X 1 2
D + X _ _ _
G X + X 2 1
B _ X _ X 1
P _ X _ 2 X
Columns B and P now have one remaining possibility and can be filled. This completed row D, meaning D cannot give G.
This allows us to complete column G. Then column C.
\ C D G B P
C X + X 1 2
D + X X 1 2
G X + X 2 1
B 2 X + X 1
P 1 X + 2 X
Now, in order to get D, we can either name C or G. If we name C, then we also have to name D to cancel out the B&P.
If we name G, we have to name B and P as well. So the shortest solution is C+D.
I love the infographic in the back. It is very interesting.
Very interesting solution, I'd not think about solving it this way.
"Coo, shiver my sceptre!"
I love Matt since he did "about time"
This puzzle would have been more fun if we were explicitly told the rules, rather than a handwavy "i dunno, what if you ask for a car? maybe you'll get these two?"
I also did the matrix approach and initially wasn't if I made a mistake, since the correct answer seemed too simple. I wonder if there were people who misunderstood the question and just asked for what they wanted and accidentally got it right.
I think there will have been at least a few people who just asked for the two prizes they wanted, without doing any workings, but mostly that's because within the problem video James actually said "if you want to win something you just ask for it" so some people may have just chanced their luck that that was literally true for the two prizes we were aiming for, which it turned out to be.
I looked at the league table and saw that some people received 1000 points.
How 500 points worked this time is explained below the table, but why did some people receive 1000 instead of between 2000 and 3000?
The note below the table is 500 *additional* points, so 1,000 total.
@@kane2742 What's the 500 points then? Just anyone who participated?
I'd been watching a lot of Cracking The Cryptic, so I went with the logic puzzle grid approach. And got miffed that I had to resort to bifurcation to solve it.
Matt said this was rather 'approachable'.
Not only that but it doesn't have a unique solution.
Right. Both bifurcations worked, and some did combine. Especially the key parts leading to the answer. So if you wanted different prizes, there might not be enough info in the puzzle to guarantee it.
I actually did it the way presented in the video, but only after partially filling the table and decided there are many possibilities to check.
Also, if you use the matrix representation, then the car-diamond vector is an eigenvector. 🤯
I asked for the James Grime and got the GOAT
Wait I recently saw this man in 7 y.o. video and he looks the same right now. Is he a vampire?
Was one of the programmed answers in Prolog? This seems like the type of problem that is BEGGING to be solved in Prolog
Katie Steckles, now on Only Connect too :D
The league table still hasn't been updated.
Yeah I found it by just trying to figure out what the overlapping prizes are which had two solutions. Both led to the same answer. It almost felt like bifurcation in Sudoku
Anyone recognize the Sankey diagram on the wall? I believe it's Minard’s Sankey diagram of Napoleon’s Disastrous Russian Campaign.
I'm confident I entered this one, but zero points applied. Although I probably got it wrong, so may have been filtered out as random/chancer.
What an evil solution!
The question was what to ask to win car and diamonds and the bonus was for finding the fewest amount to ask for right?
No.
Yes, I think so.
Eh. Guess I didn't go all the way to the end.
tried to use graphs. Didn't realize I could have just added things together.
The puzzle didn't make any sense. Surely if I choose D, they could give me B+P. If I choose C, they could also give me B+P . Thus choosing D+C gives nothing.
And if you have been, thanks for watching!
ps:
Odd seeing James in a hoodie!
the last 10 seconds were the best :D
this one was fun
oooh, I thought that asking A twice would give you B and C once and then maybe B and D...
Damn, I think I entered the 3-item-solution and missed the fewest-items-condition. :-(
It was never very clear from the problem video, or from this solution video, whether the fewest terms was required for a submitter to be deemed correct and get points, or whether all valid solutions, regardless of the number of terms, would be accepted as correct and earn the submitter points. So you may still get points anyway.
Actually it is just a glorified sudoku like puzzle. It was really neat!
Ow, I missed the bit about it being in the fewest terms. That's gonna hurt my final league table position, hahaha
It was never very clear from the problem video, or from this solution video, whether the fewest terms was required for a submitter to be deemed correct and get points, or whether all valid solutions, regardless of the number of terms, would be accepted as correct and earn the submitter points. So you may still get points anyway.
@@MrDannyDetail -- Yeah... Most of them have some amount of vaguery that I would use to argue for more points with if this was a test in a class.
12:12 Parker Plug
I can't believe I blundered and got this one wrong... it wasn't even that hard.
The glaring absence of brown paper made it harder to focus on the math. It just seems wrong to have the great JG writing on normal paper.
Thanks again to James Grime for doing the 18th puzzle in MPMP (or rather, the 1st puzzle in JGJG).
me: does this mean it was a bonus puzzle and we still have two mpmp's to go?
strange, I got 4 cases instead of 2 (all 4 had the same solutions for car and diamond)
Initially I also had 4 but when checking if they really satisfied the original two combinations, two of them turned out to be invalid. Those two however gave me different results the the two valid ones...
Man i feel even more stupid now :D
That poor goat.
Yeah, I'm the one of those people that didn't use the fact that adding them all up results in zero. The reason for this is James' exact wording: "two of the things will result in winning the car, two of the things result in winning the diamond and that same rule applies to all the prizes".
My reasoning here was that you can get each possible single prize from the combination of two asked things. And that results in a solution of Goat + Bogies + Poke. I'm wondering if other people reasoned this way.
League table hasn't been updated yet?
3rd puzzle I got first.
miniZinc????
I missunderstood the puzzle.
Iol
I mean, I got there in the end, but much less elegantly.
I think I would pay to be in charge of prize distribution. 😁
Boogies are a matter of taste.
The was... a Parker-Plog
Numberphile flog that brown paper from their videos but I bet a jar of James’ bogies would sell for a pretty penny...
What on earth is wrong with you
No, it's snot! Lol
I did not do it the way he did it at all.
I found four valid solutions... and double checked them. I can prove it.
Ask: B C D G P
1. bg dp cp db cg
2. cg dp cp db bg
3. cg db cb dp pg
4. pg db cb dp cg
1 and 3 are not valid.
In 1, B results in B and in 3, P results in P
@@kateba Ah yes. There were so many conditions, I got turned around at some point.
I pee
No, it'snot =)
Ahhhhhhhhh it' snot
Is bogey something good?
No, it's snot.
i still don't follow this mess.