I like your content, however I believe you are mistaken on this one. The grounding electrode conductor is the wire that connects the service to the electrode, or the electrode system. All other wires from there on are bonding jumpers. See Art 100 Definition: Bonding Conductor (Bonding Jumper); Then see Definition: Grounding Electrode conductor. Finally see 250.53(C) ... the bonding jumper used to connect electrodes together... Keep up the content!
I agree. If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used, such as exothermic welding. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
I believe that the GEC is only from the Grounded conductor of the service to the first grounding electrode. If you use a second acorn clamp on the first group rod with a separate conductor from the first rod to the second rod, that conductor would be considered a bonding jumper. Therefore it would not need to be continuous. What do you think? I appreciate your input. Thank you!
If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
I don't think any of my inspectors would buy that logic. unless you did a test and the first ground rod was sufficient to ground the system. then you would just be bonding a random piece of metal stuck in the ground.
I tend to agree. See Art 100 Definition: Bonding Conductor (Bonding Jumper); Then see Definition: Grounding Electrode conductor. Finally see 250.53(C) ... the bonding jumper used to connect electrodes together...
Hi Bill. There is nothing wrong with the two ground clamps, the grounding electric conductor is the one from the ground rod in to the panel, the conductor from ground rod to ground rod it is a bonding jumper.
@@willschultz5452 no, it doesn’t have to be continuous, the second ground rod is supplementary when one ground rod isn’t enough, that is why that conductor is a bonding jumper.
Agreed. The second rod is a supplemental electrode as required by 250.53(A)(2). The GEC is required to be unspliced from its bonded point on the service grounded conductor to the grounding electrode, the rod in this case.
Go to the first rod 1 clamp and run the wire through it continuous (stripping the insulation if it is insulated then go to the second rood and install another clam and terminate. The first rod only needs 1 clamp because the wire is continuous it is still only one wire
Could you cover portable / fixed generator grounding. Mine has its own 8ft ground rod tied to the generator frame, as well as the fuel tanks. This is separate from the normal service connection ground rod. If it makes a difference my generator is tied into the main panel via a manual interlock. Thanks!
If this generator is supplying a house through a service panel (or a transfer switch), then it MUST also be bonded to the house's grounding electrode system (ground rod). While it's fine to have an "additional" ground rod tied to the generator frame & grounding point, it's important to keep differential ground potentials low, and bonding your generator's ground to your house's ground (if it's supplying a house) is very important. That's the whole idea of grounding. Your generator should also NOT have the neutral and ground bonded at the generator. The generator's neutral conductor should be run along with the hot (ungrounded) conductors, all the way to your panel or transfer switch. Then the neutral-ground jumper in you panel will be the bonding point. If the generator supplies 240/120v (two "hots" and a neutral), then you need four, separate wires from the generator: Two hot legs, one neutral, and one equipment bonding conductor (ground). I do a lot of generator installations here in west Texas (mostly Generac units). Grounding is critical because of our lightning issues here.
if you had a 400A service feeding 2, 200A panels, you could have the grounding electrode conductor from each panel clamped onto the same grounding electrode(s)
Either method is permitted. The term "Continuous", in this case, as used in 250.64(C), applies ONLY to the Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) between the panel/bus bar/bonding point, and the initial grounding electrode. (See Art.100, "Grounding Electrode Conductor"). That "first" conductor to the ground rod must be "continuous" (not spliced, tapped, or interrupted) EXCEPT by the methods & means indicated in 250.64(C)(1-4). The addition of more than one grounding electrode (ground rod) is permitted, and the interconnection "bonding jumpers" to the additional electrode(s) would need to comply with 250.53(C) and 250.70(A), which specifies, "Listed... lugs, pressure connectors, clamps, or other listed means". However, there is NO requirement that the conductor itself (between the electrodes) be "continuous", i.e., a single, uninterrupted conductor. Multiple conductors, terminated into listed clamps at each rod, is permitted. Therefore, if the connector (i.e., "Acorn nut) ") is "listed" (and/or approved) for only a single conductor, then only one may be put under the clamp. If necessary, for multiple conductors, two (or more) clamps may be used... or a single clamp with a single, continuous conductor passing through it, as shown in the video. Lastly, since multiple grounding electrodes are not "required" (with the exception of a high resistance/impedance situation requirement), any additional ground rods would likely fall under 250.54, and would be basically exempted from the requirements of 250.50 and 250.53(C). With all that said, no doubt the "best practice" would be the image shown on the left (a continuous conductor passing through). However, either method SHOULD be acceptable, according to NEC. Unfortunately, some "Local Code" addendums might supersede and/or override the NEC requirements, and as such, the local AHJ may or may not approve of one or the other. Sometimes inspectors get a little uppity about such things, regardless of what the Code says...😁 I'm a ham radio operator, and have a large ground electrode system for my radio gear (also bonded back to my primary utility/house panel electrode). It consists of four 5/8"x8-foot driven rods, all interconnected via #2awg solid CU (buried at about 18-inches). The connection at each rod used the "continuous" method and listed acorn clamps.
Currently my GEC is bonded to the utility ground inside the meter pedestal. Only 3 conductors enter into my service panel. ( 2 hots. 1 neutral.) Im adding a service ATS ahead of the existing panel. I plan to bond at the ATS and unbond the existing panel. My inspector wants me to run the grounding conductor to the ATS to be code compliant. Can I add a second GEC to the existing grounding electrodes using separate clamps? Thanks.
It must be continuous. I tried to slip it by the inspector once and he failed it and I had to rip it all out and replace it! We must also have 2 rods and the water pipe ground, even on a 100 amp service.
I've had a similar experience. If you don't run the continuous wire, inspectors will most likely flunk it. Also, it's best practice to run continuous wire to the 2 ground rods and to the cold water pipe as well. Plus, the 4 or 6AWG wire is expensive and you don't want to have to buy it again so that you can run it continuously.
@@davidmerlo3352 yes that's for sure, too many opinions, every inspector wants something different. NEC needs to make the language easier to understand so inspectors can't make up whatever they want 🙄
@@SparkyChannelwhat about that continuous tun also bonding to the gas pipe? Both water and gas pipe are present in my crawlspace rather near to each other.
Also people commonly install 2 ground rods. The code only calls for one IF it is tested to be less than 25 ohms to ground. Since most contractors do not have the testing equipment they simply install the second rod which makes it code compliant without testing
Several of our utilities require multiple ground rods so does not matter that the NEC does not. And the GEC has had to be (for them, again) continuous ever since I started wiring in the ‘70’s .
So the only way to splice easily is by irreversible compression type connectors ? So why not use a acorn rated for 2 wires and tighten it up real good and cut the head off the compression bolt?
If you took one conductor and stripped a given section of insulation off of it ( if it has insulation) and you bend it in half and stick the bend in the acorn clamp, do you have one or two conductors?🤔. I submit that it is still a single conductor…
ok 1 wire per clamp kool BUT I dont know why someone would but it didnt say you couldn't fold the wire over and still have only 1 wire yet its doubled ...
If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
I agree. If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used, such as exothermic welding. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
250.53 says otherwise. It is not required to be continuous after the first electrode, you could even come off it & hit water or ufer if the conductor is sized correctly.
@@sparkyjerred419You can run it through the water pipe also BUT it must be continuous through all 3. Inspectors WILL fail you if it is done any other way. Must be continuous across the water meter jumper as well.
@@willschultz5452 ,in Louisville. for years has been one wire to the water ground. and one war all the way to both driven grounds. never been turned down.
@willschultz5452 I disagree. I believe Mike Holt would disagree aswell. Inspectors won't fail you here for your bonding jumpers to your supplemental electrodes not being continuous to the service.
On my personal and family members. Or when I’m doing a job and the wire and grounding electrode is attached underneath or inside concrete to be buried.. I actually take it one step further, and use the real Silver Brazing rod and silver breeze the wire to the rod for the copper water pipe that is located underneath the concrete to be buried. Nothing conducts better than silver Completely encapsulated in Silver, so no possible water or Corrosion intrusion .
@@kenbrown2808 this is Silver Brazing, not Solder. On top of the regular brass U-bolt electrical clamp connector. It will outlast any mechanical device approved by the NEC
@@coldfinger459sub0 yes, brazing to protect a bonding clamp would be acceptable. I'm not sure that brazing instead of a clamp would be recognized. however, in my experience, it's not the clamp that fails.
@@kenbrown2808 it’s the corrosion that builds up between the different items If there is no space between because it’s encased in solid silver between the wire, the grounding rod in the brass clamping device there’s no way to fail
I like your content, however I believe you are mistaken on this one. The grounding electrode conductor is the wire that connects the service to the electrode, or the electrode system. All other wires from there on are bonding jumpers. See Art 100 Definition: Bonding Conductor (Bonding Jumper); Then see Definition: Grounding Electrode conductor. Finally see 250.53(C) ... the bonding jumper used to connect electrodes together... Keep up the content!
Continuous. Best practice. I’ve seen it done all kinds of which ways. Thank you.
I agree. If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used, such as exothermic welding. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
A is the clear winner 👍 thanks Bill
Thanks Anthony!
I believe that the GEC is only from the Grounded conductor of the service to the first grounding electrode. If you use a second acorn clamp on the first group rod with a separate conductor from the first rod to the second rod, that conductor would be considered a bonding jumper. Therefore it would not need to be continuous. What do you think? I appreciate your input. Thank you!
Correct
If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
I don't think any of my inspectors would buy that logic. unless you did a test and the first ground rod was sufficient to ground the system. then you would just be bonding a random piece of metal stuck in the ground.
Bonding jumper
I tend to agree. See Art 100 Definition: Bonding Conductor (Bonding Jumper); Then see Definition: Grounding Electrode conductor. Finally see 250.53(C) ... the bonding jumper used to connect electrodes together...
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Where do you purchase irreversible 3:22 compression-type connectors 2:45
Very helpful. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Hi Bill.
There is nothing wrong with the two ground clamps, the grounding electric conductor is the one from the ground rod in to the panel, the conductor from ground rod to ground rod it is a bonding jumper.
Still MUST be continuous, not a separate wire.
@@willschultz5452 no, it doesn’t have to be continuous, the second ground rod is supplementary when one ground rod isn’t enough, that is why that conductor is a bonding jumper.
@@luislazogue8089 You are correct.
@@sparkyjerred419 thank you.
Agreed. The second rod is a supplemental electrode as required by 250.53(A)(2). The GEC is required to be unspliced from its bonded point on the service grounded conductor to the grounding electrode, the rod in this case.
Ty great content
Thanks! Great comments!
Go to the first rod 1 clamp and run the wire through it continuous (stripping the insulation if it is insulated then go to the second rood and install another clam and terminate. The first rod only needs 1 clamp because the wire is continuous it is still only one wire
Excellent!
Could you cover portable / fixed generator grounding. Mine has its own 8ft ground rod tied to the generator frame, as well as the fuel tanks. This is separate from the normal service connection ground rod. If it makes a difference my generator is tied into the main panel via a manual interlock. Thanks!
It sounds like you have an excellent grounding system. Well done on getting the generator system. Sorry, no video planned for the generator grounding.
If this generator is supplying a house through a service panel (or a transfer switch), then it MUST also be bonded to the house's grounding electrode system (ground rod).
While it's fine to have an "additional" ground rod tied to the generator frame & grounding point, it's important to keep differential ground potentials low, and bonding your generator's ground to your house's ground (if it's supplying a house) is very important. That's the whole idea of grounding.
Your generator should also NOT have the neutral and ground bonded at the generator. The generator's neutral conductor should be run along with the hot (ungrounded) conductors, all the way to your panel or transfer switch. Then the neutral-ground jumper in you panel will be the bonding point. If the generator supplies 240/120v (two "hots" and a neutral), then you need four, separate wires from the generator: Two hot legs, one neutral, and one equipment bonding conductor (ground).
I do a lot of generator installations here in west Texas (mostly Generac units). Grounding is critical because of our lightning issues here.
if you had a 400A service feeding 2, 200A panels, you could have the grounding electrode conductor from each panel clamped onto the same grounding electrode(s)
True.
Either method is permitted.
The term "Continuous", in this case, as used in 250.64(C), applies ONLY to the Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) between the panel/bus bar/bonding point, and the initial grounding electrode. (See Art.100, "Grounding Electrode Conductor"). That "first" conductor to the ground rod must be "continuous" (not spliced, tapped, or interrupted) EXCEPT by the methods & means indicated in 250.64(C)(1-4).
The addition of more than one grounding electrode (ground rod) is permitted, and the interconnection "bonding jumpers" to the additional electrode(s) would need to comply with 250.53(C) and 250.70(A), which specifies, "Listed... lugs, pressure connectors, clamps, or other listed means". However, there is NO requirement that the conductor itself (between the electrodes) be "continuous", i.e., a single, uninterrupted conductor. Multiple conductors, terminated into listed clamps at each rod, is permitted.
Therefore, if the connector (i.e., "Acorn nut) ") is "listed" (and/or approved) for only a single conductor, then only one may be put under the clamp. If necessary, for multiple conductors, two (or more) clamps may be used... or a single clamp with a single, continuous conductor passing through it, as shown in the video.
Lastly, since multiple grounding electrodes are not "required" (with the exception of a high resistance/impedance situation requirement), any additional ground rods would likely fall under 250.54, and would be basically exempted from the requirements of 250.50 and 250.53(C).
With all that said, no doubt the "best practice" would be the image shown on the left (a continuous conductor passing through). However, either method SHOULD be acceptable, according to NEC. Unfortunately, some "Local Code" addendums might supersede and/or override the NEC requirements, and as such, the local AHJ may or may not approve of one or the other. Sometimes inspectors get a little uppity about such things, regardless of what the Code says...😁
I'm a ham radio operator, and have a large ground electrode system for my radio gear (also bonded back to my primary utility/house panel electrode). It consists of four 5/8"x8-foot driven rods, all interconnected via #2awg solid CU (buried at about 18-inches). The connection at each rod used the "continuous" method and listed acorn clamps.
Currently my GEC is bonded to the utility ground inside the meter pedestal. Only 3 conductors enter into my service panel. ( 2 hots. 1 neutral.) Im adding a service ATS ahead of the existing panel. I plan to bond at the ATS and unbond the existing panel. My inspector wants me to run the grounding conductor to the ATS to be code compliant. Can I add a second GEC to the existing grounding electrodes using separate clamps? Thanks.
It must be continuous. I tried to slip it by the inspector once and he failed it and I had to rip it all out and replace it! We must also have 2 rods and the water pipe ground, even on a 100 amp service.
I've had a similar experience. If you don't run the continuous wire, inspectors will most likely flunk it. Also, it's best practice to run continuous wire to the 2 ground rods and to the cold water pipe as well. Plus, the 4 or 6AWG wire is expensive and you don't want to have to buy it again so that you can run it continuously.
Most inspectors I run across don't know what they are doing, at least San Diego residential inspectors
@@davidmerlo3352 yes that's for sure, too many opinions, every inspector wants something different. NEC needs to make the language easier to understand so inspectors can't make up whatever they want 🙄
@@SparkyChannelwhat about that continuous tun also bonding to the gas pipe? Both water and gas pipe are present in my crawlspace rather near to each other.
When laying a ground rod flat can it be bent up to crip the wire at the tip of the ground rod?
Also people commonly install 2 ground rods. The code only calls for one IF it is tested to be less than 25 ohms to ground. Since most contractors do not have the testing equipment they simply install the second rod which makes it code compliant without testing
Thanks Ed!
Several of our utilities require multiple ground rods so does not matter that the NEC does not. And the GEC has had to be (for them, again) continuous ever since I started wiring in the ‘70’s .
very good.
ilike the idea of running the #6 wire through and through another acorn clamp .
Yes, I do as well.
So the only way to splice easily is by irreversible compression type connectors ? So why not use a acorn rated for 2 wires and tighten it up real good and cut the head off the compression bolt?
Does that "10~1 AWG" also forbid twin ferrules?
If necessary, splices or connections shall be made as permitted in the following: (see 3:11 of the video).
If you took one conductor and stripped a given section of insulation off of it ( if it has insulation) and you bend it in half and stick the bend in the acorn clamp, do you have one or two conductors?🤔. I submit that it is still a single conductor…
IMO that would count as 2 conductors. I don't think that would fly for most inspectors, but you would be keeping the wire continuous.
ok 1 wire per clamp kool BUT I dont know why someone would but it didnt say you couldn't fold the wire over and still have only 1 wire yet its doubled ...
Just welded it
Yes, exothermic welding is awesome!
most cities have not adoppted this code. where I'm from they still use the 2011 code.
What state?
This isn’t a new code, been around for many cicle codes.
Continuous wire. If one clamp comes loose, the second ground rod MUST still be 'present and connected' to the system.
I agree.
Couldn’t you just buy an acorn clamp that accommodates 2 Gec’s?
If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
Thank you sir !
No, it must be continuous across both rods
I agree. If you wanted to run a non-continuous GEC bonding jumper to the 2nd ground rod, one of the 4 methods shown at 3:11 would have to be used, such as exothermic welding. But with acorn clamps, it must be continuous IMO.
250.53 says otherwise. It is not required to be continuous after the first electrode, you could even come off it & hit water or ufer if the conductor is sized correctly.
@@sparkyjerred419You can run it through the water pipe also BUT it must be continuous through all 3. Inspectors WILL fail you if it is done any other way. Must be continuous across the water meter jumper as well.
@@willschultz5452 ,in Louisville. for years has been one wire to the water ground. and one war all the way to both driven grounds. never been turned down.
@willschultz5452 I disagree. I believe Mike Holt would disagree aswell. Inspectors won't fail you here for your bonding jumpers to your supplemental electrodes not being continuous to the service.
Good morning
I'm Mozay Please
I want to no the use of Earth
On my personal and family members. Or when I’m doing a job and the wire and grounding electrode is attached underneath or inside concrete to be buried.. I actually take it one step further, and use the real Silver Brazing rod and silver breeze the wire to the rod for the copper water pipe that is located underneath the concrete to be buried.
Nothing conducts better than silver
Completely encapsulated in Silver, so no possible water or Corrosion intrusion .
Excellent job!
I think the NEC doesn't recognize it as the sole connection method, though. I know for sure that soldering isn't recognized
@@kenbrown2808 this is Silver Brazing, not Solder. On top of the regular brass U-bolt electrical clamp connector.
It will outlast any mechanical device approved by the NEC
@@coldfinger459sub0 yes, brazing to protect a bonding clamp would be acceptable. I'm not sure that brazing instead of a clamp would be recognized.
however, in my experience, it's not the clamp that fails.
@@kenbrown2808 it’s the corrosion that builds up between the different items
If there is no space between because it’s encased in solid silver between the wire, the grounding rod in the brass clamping device there’s no way to fail