Leaving Neverland - evidence of multiple interview takes
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Also see my video on non-verbal communication - Robson and Safechuck vs real abuse victims • Leaving Neverland - Ro...
And my video on suspicious editing in Leaving Neverland • LEAVING NEVERLAND's su...
The impression given in Leaving Neverland is that Wade Robson and James Safechuck have been filmed in candid continuous interviews, but a breakdown of the footage reveals that their claims are spliced together from multiple takes of their interview dialogue. This in turn suggests that their interviews are essentially acting performances.
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In response to the more frequent disagreements in the comment section here ...
Yes, a lot of documentaries have interviews that are filmed with multiple takes and very brief shots of the interviewees ... and it's arguably a deception in those films too - it makes the interviewees seem less credible. However, most documentaries actually involve evidence as well as interviews. In a case like this, where the "victims" already lack credibility on account of their own previous court testimonies and TV interviews, it was essential to get interview footage that was as honest and raw as possible. Multiple takes with selective editing was a very poor choice. It has resulted in the interviews having a scripted and acted appearance.
A few people saying that the director has already stated that the interviews were filmed over 2 or 3 days ... good. And I'm glad to bring more attention to that particular aspect of the production as a lot of people would miss the implication of multiple takes - the effort to try and get a strong acting performance that's actually dishonestly spliced together to appear like a natural flow of dialogue.
Regarding the people going on about the body language stuff, I did say in the video I'll be making a separate video on that so please feel free to respond that video when I post it. (Update: here's my vid on the body language ruclips.net/video/hFdnhmRpdFE/видео.html )
Regarding the people asking if I've met any sexual abuse survivors, yes I have. I worked 17 years in the social care field and interacted with thousands of people in that line of work ... probation, homeless, learning difficulties, mental health, and yes ... I met and interacted with dozens of pedophiles and sex abuse victims so I have a personal experience take on both the victims and their abusers.
Regarding the folks who think that Jackson sleeping in the same bedroom as child visitors amounts to proof of sexual abuse. That's witch-hunt logic. A lot of people, adults and kids, sleep in the same bed or bedroom under various circumstances and it's not a foregone conclusion that sexual interaction has occurred. Yes, it does cast suspicion on Jackson and without that particular facet of his life there would be very little grounds for suspicion, but sexual intent is not the only possible motive. Jackson clearly had a child-like mentality in a lot of ways so it is perfectly logical that he enjoyed sleep overs with visitors to compensate for his loneliness and lack of family at the time. Yes, there is a possibility of sexual molestation, but possibility doesn't equal proof. And you need proof to convict in a court of law unless you believe in witch hunts.
Regarding the folks who say that there have been tons of accusers ... there have been a handful and it all kicked off with the discredited Jordy Chandler case. As Razorfist has aptly pointed out,Jackson made the mistake of settling the civil case out of court (without admission) so that he could defend the criminal case (the one that could actually lead to jail time). He defended and was acquitted on all charges, but the pay out given on the civil case gave the green light for other snakes in the grass to come out seeking multi-million payouts. From what I can tell, that has what has been happening on and off since.
"You just can't handle him being a pedo because you like his music". Yes, there are some who would defend Jackson even if proof were found of sexual abuse just as there are some who will keep calling him an abuser despite lack of evidence. Like most people, I fit into neither camp. I loved Kevin Spacey as an actor, Rolf Harris was a great cartoonist and Bill Cosby I found hilarious ... but I'm not trying to defend them.
Thanks for your thoughts folks.
I do find that the continuity discrepancies curious, I do think that attributing them to an attempt to deceive problematic. I think you could say that, yes, to present these interviews as single, linear interviews is deceptive as such. They obviously were not. The narratives were obviously edited together from a collection of interviews performed in a different order from that presented and (it appears to me) conducted on different days, probably a long time separated. However, to say that the editing was done with an attempt to deceive the audience as to the nature of the material facts of the two cases is quite another thing.
It is quite possible that the editing was done to construct, from disjointed elements, recalled at different time,s a narrative that was coherent and easily understood by the audience.
This does not mean that I believe, or do not believe the stories of the two men. It does mean, though, that the fact that there is substantial editing of the videos does not indicate that what is said is untrue. Simply it means that the stories were gone over several times and that new information given in later interviews was added in the edit to construct a linear narrative to improve intelligibility.
I think it is a distraction from, as you point out, the lack of material, or substantial circumstantial evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Jackson.
Doc was edited, sometimes people lie, I like Bill Cosby and Kevin Spacey, worked with liars before so therefore Jimmy Saville is innocent.
Ahem sorry I meant Michael Jackson.
Edit - Also Rob, having seen you acknowledge that editing and multiple takes is common in a lot of documentaries does that make the point of this vid mute?
You might as well just make a vid reading your above comment.
👏👏 perfectly stated!!
I find the idea that Jackson compensated his lonelyness and lack of family with boys sleeping a bit ludicrous, considering he pleaded the mothers to let the boys sleep with him and he had so many boys and their families whom he familiarized. He would become part of the family for many of the boys. And still he needed another new boy to live his childhood again and again. I don't know how that works but it is odd he never seemed to be able go "alright, now I've experienced the normal family life and boyhood friendship five times through five different boys and their families. Time to grow up, get married and have kids of my own". Well, he had the kids but the sleepovers with others continued.
@@n0u4n why are people justifying sleeping with children?
Not a fan of MJ and I watched Oprah’s interview with these 2. Totally lost my respect for her. She wants to portray herself as such a righteous person. She was purely biased. Hanging a dead man dry with just the story telling of 2 men with no verifiable evidence on a tv show is just wrong. Thank you for your analyses. At least MJ can be vindicated even though he has no voice now.
Secretly, look what's happening behind the scenes - (..."Check this out for yourself on RUclips & Google. Look for this name, Ron Newt, he said he was offered $200,000 to say MJ touched his son in 2005, he refused and on 3/13/19 he mysteriously died because was coming out with more truth on this current fraudulent documentary"...). Also another boy's father committed suicide when busted for lying. smh. Michael Jackson was investigated by the FBI, LAPD, Santa Barbara DA, the DCFS all for more than 15 years which discovered absolutely no evidence that he ever committed a crime against ANY child. He was found "NOT GUILTY"14 times!! Why would Michael ask Wade to testify on his behalf if he did those horrid things to him. How does he sleep at night? I believe MICHAEL!!! Michael Jackson was proven INNOCENT forever RIP✌️💯💝
Have you ever been molested as a child? So please don't give your opinion.
@@parisbrooke7193 so only when u were molested u r allowed to have an opinion. Yes molestation is really a horrible a experience. But u have keep in your head that ppl capable to lie about these horrible things for money. People even lie about murder or kill for money. That's the human race for u. I don't know if he did it or not. But don't be so naive. Some ppl go to jail for murder while they r innocent.. By the way I've watched the doc and my dad is a sexual abuser.. I had to go to police.. I was 14.
Yes...she is not a journalist at all....
I've never had any interest in or respect for Oprah. Just another American TV personality who has managed to fool the entire country into treating them as some kind of god. Any of her stuff that I have seen is corny and manipulative.
Abuse is such a serious issue that people who fake stories for money just sickens me. It makes everyone else who's really suffered seem less credible.
You assume they're lying. They should get paid. I've been abused and I understand 100% why they just came out with it now.
Amirah Kukan they’re awful liars
That's exactly why I feel Oprah did a suck job on explaining why she felt this sh** she did was bigger than lying on a dead man and trying to damage the family the legacy. But I'll go a step bigger and better Orpah the fact is it's never bigger than the victims and these idiots never cared sh** about the audience and most definitely the truth which is another importance.
Luna Pyrope ....I am so with you. As someone that was abused in some of the hardest ways this truly sickens me to the core and raises my blood pressure! If it was about recognizing his abuse, bringing awareness, counseling to victims or charities would have been on his agenda.... but money is Wade's agenda. When u offer a money settlement in 2013 with records sealed tells me u care ZERO about abuse victims and shows me you yourself are NOT A VICTIM. This breaks my heart for Michael.
@@amirahkukan782 This is just a suggestion, as I cannot help an uneducated brain learn something but you can. I recommend doing all your fact checking before pretending to be the smartest in here.
James Safechuck said he was abused in the neverland train station until 1992....but the train station wasn't built until 1994🤔
Actually it was finished in 95
You have to have a great memory to be a good liar, obviously Safechuck has a shit memory and is a shit liar
@@Vinnie-pu9vw Hit the nail on the head!! That is a FACT.... You do have to have an excellent memory if you're going to be a liar your whole life.
There's more than one train station shown in the blue prints. The last one built was finished in '95.
Whether there is 1 or 50 trains doesn't matter because he already retracted it saying the dates were wrong. You can't take that back!
Brandi Jackson and Wade Robson had a relationship for about 8 years. Brandi Jackson is a niece of Michael Jackson. They where both 12 years old when the relationship began. Do you know who brought them together?? Uncle Michael Jackson!
When they where about 20 years old Brandi found out that Wade cheated on her with multiple woman who he hoped would advance his career. One of those woman was Britney Spears. Britney had a relationship with Justin Timberlake at the time and Wade Robson still had an relationship with Brandi Jackson.
Brandi said: "Wade is not the victim, he is an opportunist! Wade, you constanly talked about wanting to be "relevant". You've burned so many bridges now the only time you are relevant is when you headline with my family's name next to yours. It's time to stop these lies and live your own life."
12 year olds don't have relationships. Nothing proves the molesting never took place. Nothing.
@@BB-dj4vs This so called relationship started when he was nine. Nine years old boy having a relationship? This is getting bizzare. And even if you claim they were 12. 12 years old children are having relationships? Do you know what you are saying? And you continue claiming uncle Michael brought them together. If that is true, it just tell me he was even more premeditated than I thoght. Getting himself a bizzare alibi. He cheated on her, not nice. But not illegal eaither. Molesting children is illegal.
mindfield9 grasping at straws as if a “relationship” with two 9 year olds proves anything or even was anything. Doesn’t mean abuse didn’t happen or could have. You saying this true is just spouting the Jackson rhetoric.
@@BB-dj4vs I met my daughter's father at 12 years old, childhood sweethearts so your statement is bullshit.
B B to be fair, I’m 21 and pretty much been in the same relationship since I was 12. I had genuine feelings then too. Some people have more mature emotions at 11/12 when they start going through puberty. Can be nothing, can be something. Same as adulthood.
There was NO evidence!! Wade Robson's own mother said that Wade is so good at making you believe him he could win a Oscar.
Mattie love Yupp, Michael was always innocent.
Golden Raspberry Awards if u ask me. I can't understand who find robson or safechuck believables. James mom deserves the award for the worst actress in a supporting role
I messaged Joy Robson saying that I feel bad for her and Chantel, because "Wade is lying, and he doesn't care that he's destroying you in the process. When he denied anything happened in 1993 and 2003 he was telling you the truth, and you know that. A mum knows". She didn't reply, but boy did she read it: I was blocked by her on FB.
C R whats ur problem??
Mattie love I’m sorry but he didn’t make me believe anything I can see by his eyes that his a narcissist trick who would do anything for fame
Ive shot documentary's, and if the story is true, i leave the camera on the person being interviewed and let them tell their story. I dont stop rolling until the person is done. When the person is done i hand the footage over to my editor, my second camera is already out filming fill scenes, and is then the editor gets to work putting the doc together. I am always conscious of the back ground and im paranoid about those little imperfections. So i get what he is saying and he is absolutely right..
When you shoot documentary’s is the background ever different? I can’t justify calling “leaving neverland” a doc, it’s a movie showing a one dim-intentional side. Looking at clips/pictures with safechuck in the background the trees are different, the chairs are the same but in a different spot. Does this usually happen in real documentaries?
I use to be a con man, no joke. These two are not convincing whatsoever
I’m a recovering addict and certainly can admit when I was high or trying to get high I could lie and manipulate anyone, shameful to say but I could cry on cue, do or say anything to get what I needed in a given moment. These 2 clowns aren’t even good liars
Agreed
One of them defended MJ in court. If he says he was lying then why hasn't he been arrested for perjury?
Because the statue of limitations for perjury expire after 7 years, and when WR "realized" he was molested and first talked about it publicly in the media 2012, was a few weeks after his SOL for perjury expired. But hey! "Obviously" that was just a coincidence..... LMAO.
@@spesfloret thanks I've been wondering. There shouldn't be a time limit on it. If you lie under oath don't matter if 10 minutes or 10 years
@@darrius7974 -- I fully agree with you on that. If it wasn't different and lie under oath didn't have expiration or was longer, I highly doubt that WR would be saying what he said today, "recognizing" that hr lied under oath in mainstream media if the law didn't "protect" him this time.
Lie under oath (or its possibility) is severely penalized, so given LN the police would be compelled to arrest him on the spot ( ! ) without any previous interaction of the mj estate or his family needed, because this would be and is regardless that.
It is important to know that the adult WR 2005 testimony under oath given supporting MJ, and repeating in many ways that: absolutely nothing improper or wrong happend to him as a minor when he was with MJ; has been expressed by him (with entusiasm even) countless of times as a minor and as an adult and years after MJ passed. Even in 2012, a few weeks before he "realized" of the molestation.
@@spesfloret convenient.
Firekind1980.. They used a loop hole in the law, to escape repurcussions in the criminal justice system. All fraudulent criminals do this. But they should agree to a lie detector test. I believe they do this in America.
They are both actors since childhood. Look up footage of their movies.
Dam Michael was and still is a blessed man to have people like u checking the facts that points out his innocents thank u.
SE B--mj was an actor too. see? everybody's rationalizing what they want to think to begin with. then justifying and justifying. why did mj sleep with little boys and not grown women?
@@tatyanamelnikoff9578 You sound dumb, girls and women have slept in his bed, including these dudes mothers and sisters.
And actors are protected magically from abuse...😂 Oh man..there is really no base discussion with MJ fans...
@@nikax3307 well you don'z get to join the conversation of people that weren't dumb enough to believe everything they're told.
Sorry have you actually read anything worth of discussion or is your base of discussion "I watched a documentary and it made me sad so this is the truth"
And yes I may come off as dismissive but you jumped in with that arrogant tone and I think you deserve to hear that we're sorry you're so easily fooled. Maybe this reflects in your real life somewhere? Cheating exes or something? I'm not a jackson fan, I just know what propaganda looks like and know how to read beyond the first sentence in a court case.
Maybe you start doing that too and come back with some actual facts.
Good luck
I will never ever believe Michael did any of the things he was accused of. Every single interview/video I’ve seen of Michael, he couldn’t have been more charming and genuine. He was a pure man that was misunderstood in the public eye due to his innocent outlook on interacting with children. He simply connected with them more than the vulture like tendencies of the adults around him. Please, let the legend Rest In Peace. I will always defend Michael, ALWAYS.
I agree.
Kokkokoo lol stfu don’t tell me you believe that crap? Michael was not good at lying. Watch interviews of him being asked about how many surgeries he had and you can tell he’s lying. When he talks about children, you can tell he was genuine in his care
this
predators are just as charming. They do not advertise themselves as predators. If abusers own families dont suspect them i wouldn't assume he is innocent just because he appears charming and genuine. Having a early warning alarm is in not normal. Not only does he have on site security but if he was that concerned he would also have guns and a much more advanced security system. It would also be easy to tell anyone to never enter his room. The alarm was not there to protect or make him feel safe it was there to give him a early warning someone was near the room and the only reason you would put that in is if you dont want to be heard or caught doing something very bad. The secret kids bedroom in the closet with naked pictures is not a good sign neither was the allegations from his own staff they saw him abuse kids nor was the fact he only ever kept boys around him
@@luc1ferblack Real victims don't sell their credibility for money, no matter if the abuser is rich or poor.
I find it most disturbing that the mother's remember Jackson so fondly at the start, like if you genuinely are disgusted by this man that groomed your whole family then surely any nice lovely memory of the guy would be tainted and fill you with disgust.
The mother's what?
@@themorningstar6272 shut the fuck up, pedantic piece of garbage.
You are ignorant my dude.
Everyone knows they lying that isnt gullible...
No real "victim" of child abuse would make their abusers kids suffer and pay after the abuser is dead. That's ludicrous
Just like NO 14 year old boy is gonna do anal with a grown man and not notice blood on his underwear until his so called rapist calls to tell him to look. Lmfao people that believe this are gullible fucks I tell ya. Nation of suckers
Ok.....are you serious though? It's a story told in chronological order, the doc opens with how she first felt when she met him.
I'm not a Fan MJ. But according to what I understand even when people intentionally turn the clip and question the annoyance MJ in "living with MJ" I still see innocent in Michael Jackson
Yeah now every fantard starts his supportive litany with ‘I’m not a fan of MJ, BUT...’
@@spaceowl9246 We as fans aren't obnoxious, we just work hard to defend Michael
I don't see anyone saying that About Weinstein or Elvis
He was with His wife will she was underage,etc.
And we don't just say it they wanted money, we KNOW it was for money
Jordan Chandler dad even said in a call that he wanted to destroy Michael Jackson.
People then try to say he slept in the same bed but He slept on the floor in the SAME BEDROOM, Not Bed.
Michael was always innocent, the media, evil people just twist up everything so they can get in more viewers and persuade people to think he was bad. All of a sudden Michael Jackson is a child molester... the world is crooked
mSa i mean they’re trying to sue for over a billion dollars but nO tHeY’rE nOt aFtEr tHe mOnEy
@@AlexeBriand2002 lmao
@@AlexeBriand2002 😂😂😂👌
Taj Jackson just tweeted this video!
Tom that Jackson is the ugliest Jackson with stupid zippers on his clothes
IpodAdvance Why the hell would you Make a comment like this 🤷🏻♀️
@@IpodAdvance What?? Huh?
daniella1111 butch it the truth , he’s ugly like JoeJackson even after Joe Modified his face
@@IpodAdvance what about face. a person has to be good from the heart
Don't Judge by face doesn't matter how ugly you are have to be good from the heart
There's a reason Wade's lawsuit was thrown out of court.
yes, lawyers. Really really good lawyers.
funkoxen lol no dude
well I also believe kurt cobain commited suicide, so you know, maybe im knaive
funkoxen the judge stated that “no fact finding juror” would find Robson’s testimony credible. They’ve contradicted and changed their story 4-5 times. Do your research.
OJ simpson was also found innocent in court. if you remember.
What an insult to all the people who have suffered sex abuse , sick, sad men . The truth will come out . I can't imagine how hard this is on Michaels family .
I see prison time coming for Wade and James!
I HOPE SO!!!!!!
Definitely cuz if they telling the truth they lied under oath
🙏
I hope so...
@@darrius7974 no they found a loophole for perjury
I am grateful for people like you who look beyond the surface or emotional pull towards disgust. Thank you for such a thorough investigation.
CNN documentary On Bill Cosby's Accussers .Lili Bernard can be seen wiping tears ofg a dry face
@@osmosisjones4912 actually, I felt sympathy for bernard because in the docu one of cosby's friends said he believes bernard because she doesn't have an agenda.
I'd believe cosby is guilty, but I'm not so trusting towards documentaries because as a viewer you're always manipulated to only see one strong side of an arguement. What do you think sbout cosby?
@@corneliahanimann2173 hears a story a male Feminist at a woman's March was called out for gropping his female so called friend later that day She admitted she just wanted to be part of moment .part of group. A few weeks later that boy killed himself. Because his hole every he BELIEVED in purity of was a lie. Believing it would never happen to him if he act right was a lie.
You can see acting with Lili especially. she even has a contradictory story on Democracy New she say he made friends her family some could use them against her and they would look at with a side eye.
On CNN she also say she told her friend also agent who after that booked the Cosby show. And she says she talked about it in therapy. So she did talk about it before but waited till after the second trile to bring it up.
Look the actual stories actually deposition page 135 .this case and point why The Main stream media show be completed for speech. Like how Adress to Charlottesvile he said he in strongest sense Condems Violence on many sides on manny sides .
And next press conference he said he sew acts of violence from both sides and by very fine people he meant a few none Violent indivuals. And Flat out said White Nationalist White supremicist absolutely should be commented. Look up Trump's Address to Charlottesvile.
Cracking down Social media disinformation. What difference between Russians Dissinformation on Facebook From Hilary's own E.mails accussations of Child Sexual abuse. And Metoo Meddling in Elections a companies with the on Disinformation supported by Mainstream media. What difference between Russian trolls and Metoo Trolls who say their Changing the world. So Meddling in forign politics . America and the UK do this kinda💩 all the time 2016 the Liberal force's for GLOBAL change got a taste of their/your own medicine
@@osmosisjones4912 dude... I appreciate that you did your homework, but I really only know the basics of the case. You have some racist/antifeminist critizism in this that seems out of place. I saw bernard make many statements, in the first one she just talked about one time she was raped when she was younger, and in the more recent videos she mentio s about 3 different scenarios where she was supposedly raped.
It rubbed me the wrong way too, but I'm not a fan of cosby or modern feminism, but this comment is to loaded for someone who barely looked into the case. Can't we just stick to one example that gets the point across please? Otherwise you expect me to fact check about 10 pages just to understand one comment and I can't spend an hour researching the internet for every youtube comment that claims to know it all.
I'm also not talking to make you seem invalid, I wouldn't claim to know the truth, but how am I supposed to pick this apart? Most people would probably stop responding right here.
@@corneliahanimann2173 i did do home work compare CNN documentary to Democracy Now. And just turn brain back her agent and friend she told booked the Cosby Show. And She said she talked about it before and . The minute she goes the police there would be rape shield laws. Sense the 60s there were rape shield laws
Bless you sir!!! MJ WAS INNOCENT!!!
Doubtful..... wishful thinking or denial on Jackson supporters' part, I think. The eyes and body language of these two guys were quite convincing. Sad for them, damning for Jackson.
Did you not watch the video and I am not an mj fan
He was guilty as f!
I thought this film sounded interesting, so I decided to watch. After doing so, I decided to read more on the subject of Michael Jackson. I find it interesting that prior to Michael Jackson's death, when Michael Jackson was heavily in debt, these guys had no problem with Michael Jackson's behavior. But as soon as it became clear, in about 2012/2013, three years AFTER Michael Jackson's death, when Jackson's estate became worth billions, these guys SUDDENLY realized that the reason their lives were so horribly messed up (so messed up it made they look sad and cry as soon as a camera was placed before them) was all due to (surprise) Michael Jackson's long-ago friendship.
Lots of people end up with psychological problems in their lives (which these two seem to have as I watch their sad-eyed, crying and whiny behavior). But, unlike these guys, the rest of us don't have the luxury of blaming our problems on a super-rich dead guy who can be sued and is no longer around to defend himself. Moreover, I can't help but think that this film was made because these two guys are ticked off that their cases were thrown out of court. The film also leaves me with the feeling that these men and their families still hold a monumental grudge at Michael Jackson because he chose to not to remain life-long friends with them. This film seems to be their way of getting back at Micahel Jackson personally (for "leaving" them) and to get back at the Michael Jackson estate for not giving them an easy out-of-court settlement.
I think your observations are spot on. This more about an attempted money grab and revenge than alleged abuse, you can tell by their demeanor. Great post.
Lori.. I couldn't agree more with everything you said in your comment.
And yet they had the nerve to say this isn’t about Michael Jackson.
He never was broke . That's just what they wanted us to believe . No possible way Michael Jackson was broke. Do you realize how much mailbox money he received in royalties? Let alone he owned the Beatles catalog which was valued at 2 billion dollars. And also owned half of Sony's publishing which is probably why he's dead in the first place ...
@@Crazyrmelo Lol! And big money at that!
"Basically a load of garbage" lol
I like this guy
Michael was always innocent.
i wonder why they left out that brandi jackson dated wade time when alledged abuse took place....
jarno niskanen because that would mean Jackson never abused him?🤔 even if Jackson did bring them together, Wade was 12 and getting a bit too old for Jacko imo
@Candy Cat- the alleged abuse went on until he was 14. He was adamant about this. Michael allegedly groomed him to believe that liking girls was bad. So I mean...are we to believe then that he wanted to mess this kid up even more by bringing his own niece into the mix? We obviously aren’t supposed to question this because we’re told that trauma manifests in different ways. But it makes u wonder why they didn’t at least have some therapists on to help cover their bases. I doubt the director even knew about Brandi. Wade mentioning a relationship in the midst of moleststion would destroy the narrative.
@@siva1149 she wasn't even saying anything against MJ, but instead defending him! You're rude and wrong which is a terrible combination.
Because Wade is a liar. He thought he could get away with that. Telling about his relationship with Brandi would've ruined their fan fiction story. 😏
jarno niskanen how is it relevant at all?
This is an excellent observation about details few others pay any attention to. You will find more blatant influence by Dan Reed throughout the film where he instills what he wishes them to say for maximum sensational impact. For example when Wade says he came back as Michael Jackson's "best friend" Reed interjects to say "and his lover" so that Wade repeats that back to him "yeah, and his lover." There are numerous barely audible moments of Dan Reed questioning them a certain way to add to the luridness, especially during some of the most graphic stories. Just imagine what is still on the chopping block if all of this made it to the final film.
P.S., Dan Reed said in one interview the ring shot was done 6 months apart, but in another interview said it was done 17 months after the main interviews. He said he spent 3 days with the Robsons and 2 days with the Safechucks. He also claims he never interviewed any of the estate lawyers that have fought the cases in court or any other associates that would dispute the claims because "none of them were in the room when the abuse happened" yet as you indicate he still went ahead and dedicated a large chunk of the film to the rest of the family of equal naivety to whether anything actually happened.
TSCM sick!
Well said. MJ is innocent!
You see, the small furniture moving from shot to shot is actually proof the houses are haunted by MJ
now he's molesting the furniture!
Collative Learning 😂😂💀
Nooo that sounds like that batshit crazy ROOM 237 logic! Moving ghost chair!
Hee!! Hee!!
@@collativelearning 😂
I could never fake tears ,but these guys didn't cry. I grew up a huge fan of Michael Jackson my whole neighborhood loved him well pretty much the world. It's very hard for me to believe Michael Jackson could or would ever hurt anyone Especially a Child. Bring on polygraphs. MJ showed LOVE to the World the Biggest Talent of all Time he is 1 of the Best Human beings on the planet IMO. Not trying to hurt anyone I just can not comprehend him hurting a child I really love children and I Believe Michael Jackson really loved children with a pure ❤️👍👍🏻👍🏼👍🏽👍🏾👍🏿🌈
All publicity is GOOD.
I've never seen so many MJ videos come onto You Tube since this documentary came out. I've never seen so many TV comments on day and night shows since he died. Every celeb is on it. How ironic that the very film that maligns MJ is actually the best publicity MJ's had in years. As a fan I'm able to view videos I've never seen before and loving them all.
The natural Law of Compensation & Retribution
works in unexpected ways.
tigressnsnow ...so true
tigressnsnow I thought the exact same , loving all the new content on Micheal here
Yes i agree with this! Ive had like a full month binge of mj an everything about him! Its been so nice to have access to so much about him just watching him with oar 💚💚 hope these lying bastards get thers!! 😠😠 #mjinnocent
Beautiful!
It is?
I have never heard his name being mentioned since the original accusations without some people saying he is a paedophile.
That is an awful legacy to have. People forgive murderers more readily!
Well said and very true this Mockumentary has no credibility, neither do the 2 liars
Yes and Oprah should be muted and people should unsubscribe from HBO. Dan GREED should be blackballed...
They are reading, scripted lines and being directed as they talk. There are many shots & footage........
so many people try to take advantage of Michael Jackson fame... and his personality ..... so sad . tragic
Your a very observant guy! Thank you
Just to be fair, from a filmmaking perspective, especially in documentary, you never want to have "talking heads" on screen for too long. They're boring to look at, and dialogue alone cannot carry a film's narrative, as film is a medium of visual communication, using visual cues to illustrate what the subject is saying, or to provide, or amplify subtext. Furthermore, when communicating to an audience in a restricted time frame, it is important to streamline the provided information into a coherent, cohesive, consistent narrative. Very often, people, particularly non-actors, do not speak in fluid, concise, linear narratives; they stop to think, stutter, stammer, forget and then remember things, lose their place, go on tangents, etc. Getting the full story out of a person can often require multiple interviews over a long period of time to build enough trust, and ask enough questions to get enough information from the subject to find, and edit together the "story," especially when the interviews are taking place as new evidence is being discovered in research. I'm a documentary director, and editor myself, and the most common phrase I say to my subjects is, "Answer my questions as best you can, and I'll make you sound coherent in post." I say this to ease their nerves about trying to be composed in front of the camera, which is a very uncomfortable and unnatural act, so I can get them to speak as naturally as possible without having to be self-conscious about how well they're speaking. I'm not saying this documentary is accurate or honest, just that the discontinuity of the interviews does not in and of itself suggest intentional manipulation or doctoring of the story. It's not necessarily an indication of fabrication, just a stamp of proper filmmaking.
No comments on your post here. Shame. Very valid counter points you make
Good point..... sir.... however, there are two many proven lies and holes in this make believe scripted, staged movie.....dramatised, drones shot,
Wade had an experience in acting as child. Just saying... Do your research
Clearly no one read the part where i said, "...not saying this film is honest or accurate..." The only thing I'm saying is the argument itself is flawed. I'm not making any assumptions about the subjects one way or the other. My only point is that "showing the full unedited interview," as the youtuber suggests, is generally not how you make a documentary.
@god is woman agreed. Again, I'm not making any case in favor of the documentary as proof of Michael Jackson's guilt.
Good analysis man. You've done a good job enlightening me more about the unclear invisible details. Thank you.
michael, rest in peace sweet prince, you were a genuine soul it is so sad even in death you cannot be free from lies
I'm so relieved to have my fears about Michael destroyed by good people like you. Thanks for restoring my faith in the greatest Pop Star of all time, and one of the most wonderful people I've had the privilege to share my timeline with.
police recovered an erotic book with under age naked boys in the raid on neverland. that is a cold hard fact. right or wrong, innocent or guilty, loving of children w/e - NO man wants kids in his bed or to hang out night after night behind closed doors in bed with kids! those kids should never have been allowed to be alone with a man who wanted to be alone with children! (especially who wants to be alone) MJ: no women, no men, no cars, no planes, no drugs, no drink, no bikes, no weed, no scandals, no orgies, no free love, no tattoos, no huge parties with celebrities, no playboy mansion, no nothing BUT TONS AND TONS OF KIDS AND SEX ABUSE ALLEGATIONS!!! thats a massive red flag!!
He certainly didn't act appropriate sometimes, but I don't believe these two. Something doesn't add up to me that these two say he abused them regularly and said he had "porn on TV in every room" (Remembering this was before decent internet or DVDs), which seems to suggest he was some sort of porn addict, and others like Macaulay Culkin said he never noticed any of that or any strange behavior from him. I call bullshit.
@@BrainDamageComedy it's been a year since this comment was posted but I'm gonna tell you anyways. First of all there is a document with the things that were found in Michael's home. I have read it and there isn't anything like this found. Don't believe everything that the media sais. Second of all he never invited children to his room, they wanted to stay with him. He slept on the floor and not in the bed with the children. Other people have never been where he has been mentally so they can't really understand why he had sleepovers with kids. Here is a video of some reasons why:
ruclips.net/video/CW7XAQc6i_E/видео.html
And lastly I just wanna tell you that there aren't "tons and tons of sex abuse allegations". The accusers are only 5 and 2 of them later said that they were pressured by their parents. There is not a piece of evidence showing that he did it.
@@sawyer2652 what you consider inappropriate?
I agree with you on the other part of the comment.
Here are two videos that debunk this one and show evidence of his innocence.. fact, documents etc. Completely debunked this one.
Square One"
ruclips.net/video/ZxNDb2PVcoM/видео.html
"Loving Neverland"
ruclips.net/video/ZxNDb2PVcoM/видео.html
"Leaving Neverland, THE aftermath"
ruclips.net/video/2hkNPmpudpc/видео.html
we cant see your body language one, it looks like channel 4 have banned it 😑 could you please re upload.
I absolutely belive M.J is innocent
Thank you for posting the truth! MJs family do rely a lot on the research of fans/ public to help expose the lies. MJ innocent and may his soul rest in peace 🌹
For the love of god... the truth? You were there were you? Man U should call a press conference or something. You want it to be true you mean. The only truth is no one going to really know who wasn’t with him alone behind closed doors. We’ll find out when we die, if we’re lucky and it isn’t lights out and that’s that..... I have a horrible feeling tho it’s going to be a rude afterlife awakening for some. Me, I couldn’t give a shit. I was abused. And guess who I’m leaning towards. Red flags all over. Like his music tho, got fuckall to do with the man. None of you know him. None of you going on about the truth. U don’t know the first thing about him. U only know his brand and his act. All celebs have acts. None of them take their masks off. Lol!! The truth! What do u know about it???’ Truly?? Zip. Just like me, cause guess what, I WASNT THERE!!!
Amirah Kukan nice unbiased opinion
If you don't think that a 30 year old man hanging out with 6 to 12 year old kids for days on end isn't suspect, idk what to tell you, His sister Latoya was saying that he was giving hush money to the parents of these children
She admitted that she lied.
Rob Ager and Razorfist are tearing this documentary a new one, LEGENDS!!
Gotta love razörfist
I loved it when Kyle Kulinski tore razörfist a new one!
Pedophile defenders unite!!!!
@@gorequillnachovidal 10+ years of FBI monitoring, court cases,2 unexpected raids by the LAPD with no search warrant where they found nothing, also MJ was found innocent on 14 counts, and was accquited. And there is proof these guys are lying, since the timelines if you check them, are not accuarate and add up to nothing. So you are givung more veracity to just claims, than legal, documented evidence.
@@Mrhostil95 OJ is innocent too I guess. Again, Occam's razor. If a grown men is sleeping with boys what is the most likely answer.
He says he can't even look at the rings yet still has them....? I watched the oprah interview and immediately i felt they acting, their sad drawn out faces looked so fake to me.
He said "I don't like looking at them." Please stick to the truth.
the misleading editing makes it very scripted. i rarely see documentaries filmed that way when people are being interviewed.
wow the furniture changing that is a HUGE catch
Dude. No. This was filmed over several days, several hours. It's very common in documentary filmmaking. If the focus was on making the movie 'believable' to trick us all into thinking MJ was a pedo, then there WOULDN'T have been any changes in shots, backgrounds, lighting. This video doesn't debunk anything.
@@siggy_crsp1452 why are they wearing the same outfits on all the "several days". They were focusing on some elements of continuity.
@@siggy_crsp1452The segengent about the Ring was filmed AFTERWARDS when the production had finished. Safechuck only then produced it and wanted to film a segment about it but he no longer had the same furniture in his room !
It's an added embellishment which is obviously a fabrication.
"OPEN LETTER TO WADE ROBSON: NO, I DO NOT HATE YOU Reidun Saxerud
If you think that someone like me hate you, you have little understanding of what "hate" is.
Hatred is the opposite of love. Hatred requires the same willingness to release as much emotion as love care. And I suppose it's true enough for a number of fans and the feedback you've received. This event, entirely orchestrated, is really traumatic for them, including me. If you know so much about the trauma, surely, you would know that you cannot identify with our true pain, because every experience is unique. And you would know, despite the wrong behavior of some, that it has nothing to do with you.
So why do you want to make it your own?
I am a true survivor of sexual abuse, both in my early childhood and adolescence. Both of my biological parents abused me. It sucks. It's painful. It has influenced every aspect of my life and adulthood. As in your story, I did not fully understand the extent of their damage, until several years after the abuse, in the midst of other upheavals in my life.
I was 25 when I realized, in full, that so many questions and problems were related to my parents, and in particular to my mother. I'm writing a whole book about it! I would be happy to send you a free copy, especially if, as you say, this is not "for money".
I'm not saying that what I really endured as a child and as a teenager didn't mean anything if someone else didn't have an experience that exactly reflected mine.
Surely, you and I have been brought up quite differently.
A large part of the abuse that I experienced was of the rarest kind (mother-daughter) and includes a completely different set of problems that can never be understood as a straight and cisgender man. Likewise, if what you sustain, had happened between you and Michael Jackson, I certainly could never understand the experience of a child who suffers the pressure of a beloved global celebrity.
But one thing remains true: my subconscious has always known that my abusers were bad people. I always knew I never trusted them.
My own parents!
Now I am thirty, only now am I untangling the tapestry and repairing the damage, years after my father succumbed to lung cancer and almost after five years without contact with my mother.
I always kept my distance from them. I avoided their anticipations. I kept them at arm's length. I never trusted them. I always looked away and often ignored their phone calls.
Something in me has always known the truth, and so many people around us.
No, Wade, I don't hate you or James. I wish I could.
I only pity you.
Those like you who do not have their own identity and have to steal it from others.
Someone like you who is so enmeshed in an identity that is not theirs and that must divert it from others.
Who has so little self-knowledge as a person and is afraid of who is the one inside himself, and instead feeds on the status of others to progress because he cannot do it alone. Who marches on the attention provoked.
There are words for people like that. Words like narcissist and sociopath. There are many others, one of which probably fits you perfectly.
You want our anger because it justifies your self-fulfilling prophecy, like a victim. Surely you are a victim: of yourself, of your own project.
Not from Michael Jackson!
By devouring our anger and bringing it upon you, it diverts the subtly veiled hatred you have for yourself.
Part of the real healing from abuse, is to face and forgive yourself for the hatred that abuse has taught you to try.
It is taking responsibility for the wrongs you have committed in your life because of the dysfunction that has been imposed on you, because your problems become survival strategies and mechanisms to deal with them.
Wounded people hurt others.
There is no doubt in my mind that someone took advantage of you at some point in your life, regardless of what they did, but it definitely wasn't Michael Jackson.
And as long as you continue this charade, it will become increasingly obvious. It is the thing you fear most, yet you are rushing headlong towards this certain ending, because you know nothing but self-destruction.
I'm also telling my story. But I don't do it for the screen, for royalties and license agreements, to stand on someone else's shoulders as it sinks into mud.
I do it alone, for myself and for others who need to know that they are not alone.
Unlike you, my story is making me lose money, many.
I'll be lucky if I can stop.
People like you muffle voices like mine.
Taking advantage of our genuine pain, using it and acting as if it were just a matter of looking into the camera lens.
In the end everything will be reduced to a harsh truth and you know it, and you will have learned nothing when it is all over, except that you can get a lot of attention with relatively little effort.
And that is why I feel sorry for you: this episode will not heal you, because this is not the real damage that was done to you.
And with all this narcissistic stock that meets your needs and engages your time, you know you're too distracted to face the emptiness inside you.
You will never change, Wade. You don't want to change. When this train derails, you will get on another without thinking twice.
Who's next on your list?
Britney?
@t
Interesting video indeed. It’s time people start doing the research on these two opportunists.
On another note: Wade's whole family seems to have been toxic. Toxic family dynamic resulting in the suicide of the father. If anything spoiled Wade, it was his own family's destructivity.
@@Analysis_Paralysis Jordy Chandlers dad Evan also committed Suicide 6 mos after MJ died. A little coincidental that two of the boys that claimed MJ molested them.. their dad's committed suicide? Wow
Also at 9:07 look at the lack of greenery growing over the fence outside compared to earlier shots.
He slept in beds with little boys. One way or another it’s gross.
But people love to defend celebrities.
Hallo Rob. I'd like to say that your analysis videos are always entertaining to watch. I didn't watch this documentary, and I chose to not watch it. My personal beliefs in Jackson are simply that he lived a very unusual lifestyle, and I'm not completely convinced of his innocence to the contrary. However, I chose to not watch this documentary as I believe it was made and produced by biased film-makers who wanted to make people believe in the guilt of Jackson by producing, editing, and releasing this documentary. I do not feel the need to watch a filmed product whose overall purpose is to instill within me a chosen idea or belief as determined by the biased film-makers. I shun a lot of stuff on TV for the very same reason. I like to be in charge of my own opinions, and not have them created for me by biased television programmes. Thank you for this, the insight was much needed. Have a good day, and keep up the excellent work!
"Unusual lifestyle"? He was a grown man with a proclivity for sleeping with little boys. "Unusual" or not, how is that acceptable from an adult?
@@francinebacone1455 Do your research, find the trial transcripts. He nor they said that he slept with the young boys. They were sleep overs that also included girls. This was something that the prosecutor spread and twisted during the trial. The facts were that he shared (allowed them to sleep on the bed while he either slept on the floor or sofa.
@@ninawinston3471 I've done my research. Jackson said himself that he slept with children in an interview.
Not only is it undisputed that did Michael Jackson slept in the same bed with Jordan Chandler for 30 nights straight, but it's also undisputed that Jordan Chandler was able to identify two distinctive markings on Jackson's privates (due to vitiligo).
It is also not disputed that Jackson also kept a stash of hardcore and softcore pornography in a briefcase next to his bed, which contained "artistic" images of nude children and an autographed (clothed) photo of Macaulay Culkin. We should also note that some of the photos were nude images of adults with kids' faces superimposed on them. Kind of strange that he would mix pornography and images of children together.... hmmmm I wonder why.
It's also an interesting undisputed fact that investigators found children's fingerprints alongside Jackson's fingerprints on several pornographic magazines in his collection.
But, sure, let's just pretend that none of this sketchiness was documented by police, and let's also pretend that there's nothing disturbing about it because the courts decided that it wasn't direct evidence that he had sex with a child.
Real high bar we're setting there.
@@francinebacone1455 What the headlines never say is that the description was detailed but didn't actually match enough to be used in trial. There were details he got totally wrong. like being circumcised.
@@francinebacone1455 His description was so inaccurate, it was inadmissable part of why there was no evidence to charge MJ after a thorough investigation and two grand jurys found insufficient evidence!
Thank you for this video. I’ve been watching your stuff for years and I’m glad you’ve tackled this farce of a “documentary”.
It’s all a sham.
Lol I thought the same thing about the rings! I felt like it was bs, I'm glad you're pointing the editing out!
I still remember the "documentary" film Bowling for Columbine where the "documentary crew" seamlessly cuts to a place where there should've been a camera visible. It was done to make it as if Charlton Heston isn't reacting to a picture of a dead child being shown, when in fact his "reaction shot" and the picture weren't filmed at the same time. Hollywood is about as accurate in their documentaries as they are in their feature films.
Music style: drama music appears in the beginning, like an artificial layer. Very obvious, or very badly choice.
Nah, standard doc choice.
@@NYCBlonde I see some of standard (maybe US stds?), but here in Europe, docs have a more neutral tone. Dramatic music tends towards fiction, because it creates an artificial emotion out of nothing, due to the power of music. We can manipulate by music. It looks like it's the case here.
@@NYCBlonde Let me guess you're a RUclips film director who knows it all!? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 #Fraud
Good observation
wow, music! holy shit. Must be fake, not like this is just another standard documentary filmmaking tactic. Must be evidence that it's a BS movie.
PLEASE BE 100% SURE MJ IS NOT THAT TYPE OF GUY...PLEASE DON'T DOUBT EVEN 1% GOD SWEAR I WILL GIVE YOU GUARANTY HE IS AND WAS 100% INNOCENT.
Sorry for the double post but I just read the video description and I'm laughing my ass off: "a breakdown of the footage reveals that their claims are spliced together from multiple takes of their interview dialogue. This in turn suggests that their interviews are essentially acting performances". No Robbie boy, it suggests that the film was edited by an editor. You cannot release a 25 hour uncut documentary. You do know movies are not live, right?
Nice try. You really think 25 hrs of interview ... and if so why are they constantly searching for the right words, delivering their lines like turtles? ;)
@@collativelearning I direct and edit documentaries. The actual interview is not the first contact with the subjects. You usually speak to them several times, they tell you the whole story off camera at least twice. This is used to see if they change their story (which usually is an indication of people lying). By the moment they are actually in front of the camera, they have told their stories several times, which sometimes causes this "robotic" speech (which you see, personally I don't). And ultimately, a film is made to sell, to attract the viewer. In order for this to happen, sometimes you need to embellish some things, to cut corners (as long as the message delivered is the same the interviewee was conveying, otherwise you have a lawsuit in your hands). Dismissing the whole thing only based on the "editing" is narrow minded. I said 25 hours as an example, I have no idea how much hours do they have, but I'm guessing more than that considering the number of interviewees.
I’m a damn landscaper, so what I first noticed when you pointed this all out is the plant outside hanging off the wall has been trimmed
Lies lies lies yet wade was dancing to MJ music mmmm thought u couldnt stand the thought of anything to do with MJ lies lies lies ...michael we stand by you 💖💖
Excellent! Concise and well presented without histrionics! I've hit that subscribe button.
Michael never stood a chance, I never believed allegations against him.
Happy to you and Razorfist airing your opinions, if we're responsable enough, not one of us should be afraid to stand up our ground.
You have a background in psychology (A career im following) you know very well how it affect people to not being able to enjoy their childhoods. Innocent until proven guilty, brothers...
Cheers from Argentina Rob, your content amazes me everyday.
Hi Rob,
As others have noted, the interviews were filmed over 2 or 3 days for each of them--as stated by the director. I'm not sure what to believe, but the fact that Jackson admitted to sleep in the same bed as young boys is inappropriate to say the least. It makes the allegations much more believable to me.
My biggest issues with these interviews, as you might have already noticed, is that the two men, their wives, and their families all smile when talking about horrific things. It's unsettling how much smiling they do throughout the documentary.
I agree that's unusual an it's the one thing that gives merit to the accusations but it is not proof. Jackson was preoccupied with recapturing lost childhood and was mega rich. Innocent until proven guilty :)
Hello. The Documentary is FICTION. The Allegations came from a BOOK. A Pro Pedophilia book.
Per Taj and Brandi, Michael's bedroom is not a normal size bedroom. They said it's literally like the size of an apartment or huge in relation to the size Neverland....
I know the Michael sharing a bed with children fact is a hurdle most people can't get over but all i can say is watch interviews of Michael Jackson in the 70s when he was a teenager. He always had a very innocent childlike way of looking at the world.
He was an icon before puberty and as an adult became the most famous man on the planet at his peak. Living that lifestyle undoubtedly shelters you from what normal socially acceptable behavior is, he was living a fairytale.
He related to kids and connected with them because parts of his development were stunted into never growing out of childish things. Of course if your 40 year old neighbor invited the kids from the neighborhood over for a sleepover it'd be completely unacceptable..but people , intentionally or not are being completely facetious when they make that comparison to when Michael did it.
His life was not like anyone else's life.
I know i rambled but just go back to his teenage interviews all the way through Thriller in his early 20s.. the man truly had an innocent personality and having sleepovers and being friends with kids just wasn't something that he understood or felt to be awkward or strange to him because he was so sheltered from what a normal life is like.
Anyone who has experienced sexual abuse can recognize the pattern described by these two. If you think they're lying, it's because the idea of your idol doing this is too horrible to confront. Unfortunately more children will continue to suffer in silence because people who are lucky enough to not have been exploited like this feel comfortable speaking on it and shutting claims down.
agree
As an abuse victim, this mockumentary isn't plausible. It is a disease to real victims
Look outside too. In the main segments there's greenery halfway down the fence. In the ring segment the greenery on the fence is trimmed and there are lawn chairs out.
Dan Reed has acknowledged doing the ring scene later when Upchuck found the ring. I guess he knew he was busted or would be.
"Upchuck" 😂 love how you casually slipped that in
okay, i get it. now let me see--the manner in which a documentary is edited proves guilt or innocence. okay. got it.
@@tatyanamelnikoff9578 You're right, film editing isn't really important (especially with all the facts that discredit these liars). The real issue about the way this "documentary" was made is this:
doc·u·men·ta·ry (dŏk′yə-mĕn′tə-rē)
adj.
1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.
n. pl. doc·u·men·ta·ries
A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.
(American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)
documentary (ˌdɒkjʊˈmɛntərɪ; -trɪ)
adj
1. Also: documental consisting of, derived from, or relating to documents
2. presenting factual material with little or no fictional additions: the book gives a documentary account of the war.
n, pl -ries
(Broadcasting) a factual film or television programme about an event, person, etc, presenting the facts with little or no fiction
ˌdocuˈmentarily adv
(Collins English Dictionary - Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014)
doc•u•men•ta•ry (ˌdɒk yəˈmɛn tə ri, -tri)
adj., n., pl. -ries. adj.
1. Also, doc•u•men•tal (ˌdɒk yəˈmɛn tl) pertaining to, consisting of, or derived from documents.
2. depicting an actual event, era, life story, etc., accurately and without fictional elements.
n.
3. a documentary film, television program, etc.
[1795-1805]
doc`u•men•tar′i•ly, adv.
(Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.)
Your views on these two and mj are exactly how I feel, I've done my fair share of research on this and I believe with enough evidence and interviews with the Jackson family and the production team behind this mockumentary you could get these two to confess or sue them
This doc is no proof of anything. Thanks for making this video.
and this video is not a rebuttal to shit either
Well MJ family doesn't deny he slept in the same bed with children, that's proof enough.
@@gorequillnachovidal No need to make a rebuttal to a sham doc that provides zero evidence. I'm not even a MJ fan.
Luke Wilson, he is analyzing the video not the info, to judge if it’s true. It’s proof that people were brain washed by michaels framing of himself as an innocent person. The people who are judging based on the acting and editing are dumb. It is the info that you need to counter. Wouldn’t it be alarming if Justin Bieber were with a bunch of 6 year old boys or girls? It shouldn’t be right?! Maybe it’s because one is whit and the other is black.
@@TheSnoopyclone Justin Bieber isn't black
I am sorry but this is ridiculous. It sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory. He changed his furniture at his home, he was told to wear the same clothes, keep the same haircut and even the stubble,...
I don't know why the furniture changed but Dan Reed said in an interview for Billboard.com it was shot in Airbnb houses because he liked their decor and because the guys and their families were not comfortable filming at their homes. Also, he said that they had a lot of technical issues with extraneous noise and also with the camera breaking at some point so they had to reshoot a few scenes. And as you were already told by others, it has been mentioned many times by Reed and even the men themselves that Robson's interview took 3 days and Safechuck's 2 days to be made, so the whole purpose of this video - to PROVE that there are multiple takes of their dialogue in the film - is pointless. Because no-one is denying it.
Is there really anyone who expects an interview for a 4-hour long documentary to be shot in one take? Really? Well, that's not how it works. Especially if the topic is so heavy and difficult to talk about. You would most likely get sobbing, emotional wrecks unable to talk instead of two coherently speaking men. And then you would probably be complaining about it being overly dramatic and emotionally manipulative...
The interviews of the family members were not at all irrelevant. They were not there to confirm what the two men were saying about the alleged abuse but to explain the impact that MJ had on their families, to explain how it got to the point where the boys were allowed to spend their time with MJ, including their nights, and basically to provide context and a wider perspective of what was going on from their point of view.
Of course they wore the same clothes for the different takes they aren't THAT stupid.
If say a drama film has different takes over several weeks of course they wear the same clothes.
Its very strange they need so many takes but hey that's acting in films for you
Barbora Dolejsovà I totally agree with you, people think that documentaries, movies and tv shows are all done in one take? Since when? I have often noticed changes from one take to another, we all know it takes time and the makeup has to be refreshed, they need a break and never are they done in one take. That is totally irrelevant with the topic anyway so it doesn't prove anything. Nobody can know what really went on behind his closed bedroom door, with alarms in the hallway that preceded that room, not even his brainwashed fans that defend him. Only the boys know what went on. Either way he brought this on to himself, after the first allegation he should of stopped hanging around with little boys, especially sleeping with them, but he didn't did he? That makes me think that he just could not control his obsession with kids, and that alone for me is a big red flag.
@@arrivagabry of course it needed many takes as they had to get their lines right and take direction.
On a different note I find it interesting that wade and his mother were emailing each other to get their stories straight and the mother said that she had different versions written down of events that may help him with suing the estate...
@@chriswainwright185 nobody knows what was going on behind that bedroom door, besides the kids and MJ. If he abused them or not he brought this on to himself, after the first allegation he should have stopped sleeping with kids, but he didn't did he? He gets married after 4 or 5 months with Lisa straight away out of the blue, because he had to, but that didn't work did it? he went back sleeping with kids.
@@arrivagabry well obviously wade doesn't know what went on if he needs to ask his mother to help him construct a story.
And James safechuck and the director can't decide when anything happened.
The truth does not keep changing.
I can't say whether Michael did just watch disney TV, play games all the time or other things really happened.
I can't say if Elizabeth Taylor was lying about when she also slept in the bedroom with mj and kids and that it was innocent childish fun.
But I CAN tell you that I do know they are perjurers and shown to be liars many times before.
Wikipedia says both interviews were conducted over the course of two days and then later down the line the film crew returned to film their families. Maybe they picked up some more shots of that one dude with the different furniture then? Wikipedia doesn't comment on that but it seems to be open information that the interview process took some time and that this documentary is not minimally edited and based mainly off of two two hour long interviews.
In any case Michael Jackson has admitted to sleeping in the same bed as other people's kids. I don't understand why people can brush that off because he didn't have a childhood. He wasn't the first person to not have a childhood nor was he the only childhood star. You didn't hear about Shirley Temple actively going out of her way to sleep in the same bed as other people's children. Nobody likes stranger's children that much. If all he did was sleep in the same bed as them it's massively inappropriate and disgusting and nobody would be okay with a non-famous person doing that. Given that he crossed that line it's a safe bet to say he sexually abused somebody.
Lewbawee same bedroom, his bedroom is the size of a duplex and had whole families in there too, he possibly did that because he had a mentality of a child
Martin Fernandes oh then that just makes it not that terrible of a childhood? Then there are thousands of molestation cases worse than the Michael Jackson cases, does that make it less terrible? There are starving children in America but they don’t earn your sympathy because kids in Africa starve harder than them?
Good points, Rob. Presumption of innocence quickly becomes a forgotten concept in our world as far as I can see. Really bloody convenient for all types of scammers.
Magerama yep
Thank YOU for this thorough explanation of editing & shots..truly educational. Thank you!
what is your point? even if the interviewees have multiple takes and repeat whatever they are saying many times, it doesn't mean that what they are saying is inaccurate- setting aside the argument if MJ molested them or not, why would an interviewee repeating their story for multiple takes indicate it is untruthful? I find your argument that the multiple takes being spliced together proves that these men are lying to not follow from whats being presented-
And I agree, yes there was editing of the statements, and I see where you are coming from in stating that the film-making displayed here can be manipulative, but to me this is a separate issue from the truthfulness of the mens' statements. But i think its a bad faith argument to jump from the fact that editing was used to make a film, even if that editing was used to emotionally manipulate the audience, to call these men liars when they are talking about abuse they suffered as children. What does it matter if they repeated the stories for a bunch of takes? Or were really emotional in some takes, and completely flat in others? Why would their testimony mean more if it was just one shot?
well it also does not help if a lot of things they are saying is false and they leave alout of important details out of it
I think you're pointing out really standard interview and editing techniques that are about presentation not deception
Most documentaries are not merely reportage but intend to tell a story. If the director knows what story he wants to tell then the editing will help create him or her realize their vision.
@@megazoned3973 If they are trying to tell the story they want to tell, don't you think they will (intentionally or not) cut corners and take artistic licenses with their presentation of the information on hand to fit that narrative? It seems pretty natural that people would often do that, and with modern film making techniques, it is as easy to disguise as ever in a documentary.
Agreed! This is a very shallow analysis. Take it from a human lie detector:
m.ruclips.net/video/7jR-yEHI0GI/видео.html
@@predalienmack yes.. thats exactly what I am saying.
PASHUN Music 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
kinda obvious to me. They filmed with the green/yellow chair....he got his money and went out and bought new furniture so the old is no longer available. I agree with you, the couch shots are added a time after the initial interview having him wear the same clothes because they needed to add more "spice" and the ring concocted story came up
You say at the beginning that you think they’re lying, but then proceed to just talk about multiple shots. That’s not enough for me.
I said i have other reasons for thinking they're lying and will be posting more vids, one of them on body language.
Many of their claims are objectively false and Robson’s original 2013 lawsuit was thrown out because he perjured himself and destroyed evidence. He then filed a second suit alleging completely different facts. That alone should disqualify his claims on this subject.
Superb analysis !
You're are ON it man 👍🏽
My nephews mothers brother was accused of molesting his daughter and he was given a lie detector test and he was proven innocent. I was only a kid when this happened and didn't find out about until I was in my early teen years and I couldn't believe his daughter did that until I saw him at a birthday party for my nephew and overheard my nephews uncle talk about passing a his lie detector test to my nephews mom so I asked my brother who is the father of this nephew and he told me what happened. And the reason why his daughter said he was doing that to her was she just got really mad for him saying no about something she wanted.
Mismatched shots do not discredit their stories. They have done live interviews as well when James was an emotional wreck.
Could be great acting.
@@joetowers4804 or Michael Jackson could have been caught buying him a ring at Zales: ruclips.net/video/5KFXYgRJeqk/видео.html
Of course there were multiple takes. That doesn't suggest that they're acting, it suggests that they did multiple takes of telling their stories so the editor could pick the best footage to make the case. This isn't an unbiased objective documentary, and it was never meant to be. The one with the bias here is you.
JayCeePooze
Succinct and well-said.
Wade Robson's about as genuine as jussie smollett
I'm very interested in the rest of your analysis, Rob, but the problem here is that I don't think it's a reasonable assumption that the documentary aims to create the impression that the two alleged victims were just giving an uninterrupted stream-of-consciousness interview, and your commentary here seems to hinge on that assumption.
The documentary clearly involved multiple takes and didn't try to hide that. The presence of multiple takes does not support a conspiracy on its own. It could very easily be documentarians telling their subjects to describe their experiences in particular ways during reshoots. There's nothing inherently dishonest about that. It's just a tool for theatricality that has no impact on the truthfulness of the interviews.
I agree that to an extent, it's impossible to know if the alleged victims are being truthful due to the lack of supporting evidence, and there's something unhealthy about the mainstream media's assumption that they were being truthful, especially in light of the lawsuit one of them filed against the Jackson estate after testifying to his innocence under oath in court.
But their testimony alone, especially of the Australian guy, made me think Michael was guilty more-likely-than-not, regardless of the presence multiple takes. Happy to see your arguments to the contrary in subsequent videos however.
I think Rob is commenting on the oddity of answering the same question in multiple takes from different angles. As in it's no different than filming multiple takes of a scripted film. A true interview typically asks a question once and films the genuine answer in one take. But seeing as how there are so many blatant factual errors in the documentary itself, it's not hard to imagine the director getting the shots he wanted and splicing multiple versions of the same answer into the version he wishes to present. I believe that was the gist of Rob's take, I could be wrong.
@@benrushani4006 Unfortunately, or should we say fortunately for Mr Safechuck, the statute of limitations for perjury is only five years.
The use of same clothes on Safechuck despite a portion of interview obviously filmed weeks or months later is deceptive.
@@collativelearning Dunno if you read my other comment I posted (it's down there someplace but not in this specific section) but I hope you take the time to read it and as I said it would be interesting to hear you talk more on this topic, especially the interrogation sequence with MJ from 1996 (even if it's not directly related).
Collative Learning Exactly 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Wade Robson is a highly successful person. The idea that he would jeopardize his career and reputation for a lawsuit based on outrageous lies makes no sense.
You don't appear to be aware that Wade Robeson's career tanked before he accused Jackson and he was in financial difficulty.
My Mentor
by Wade Robson (Michael Jackson Opus, published in Dec 2009)
I used to talk to Michael for three hours a day. I never really worked out how he came to find so much time because he seemed so busy, but he would ring me and we would talk and talk and talk. When he got a cell phone he would call and text all the time. It was part of an amazing friendship that lasted for 20 years.
I had first met Michael when he was kicking off his bad tour in 1987. I was five, but Michael’s company was holding a dance competition in every country and I entered the one in Brisbane. I remember being a kid and dancing to his video- the first ever I say was “Thriller” when I was two. It was my mum’s tape and I just went nuts over it. I used to run into the kitchen scared every time the werewolf came on. By the time I was three I had pretty much learned its entire choreography.
I ended up winning the dance competition. We went to see Michael in Brisbane and at a meet and greet i was introduced to him. I remember wearing a custom made outfit from “Bad”- my mum’s belt was wrapped around me, like five times. Michael was impressed and asked me if I had danced. I told him that I did and he said ” Do you want to perform with me in the show tomorrow night?”
I couldn’t believe it. He was due to play Brisbane the next night. His idea was for me to come out for the last song of the show which was “Bad”. He was bringing on some orphaned children so he figured it would be cool to bring me out in the full “Bad” outfit. At the end of the song we were all onstage- Stevie Wonder was there too and Michael came on and said “Come on”. I took it as him meaning “Get into it!”.I moved downstage and threw my hat into the crowd and started going crazy. When i turned around Michael was saying goodbye to the crowd, the other kids were gone and Stevie Wonder was being escorted off. What he meant was “Come on lets go, It’s over”.
When I realized, I ran off. After my mum and I spent two hours with Michael into his hotel and we became friends. He showed us clips from the new Moonwalker he was working on and we talked and talked. We didn’t really stay in contact but i joined a dance company- literally the next day and two years later I was in America to play at Disneyland. I got in touch with Michael through his people, he remembered me. Me and my family went to Record One Studio where he was mixing the Dangerous Album. I showed him some of my dance videos and he said to me. “Do you and your family want to come to Neverland tonight”? We all agreed and ended up staying for two weeks.
Our friendship blossomed. For two weeks he’d take me into his dance studio, put some music on and we’d dance and jam for hours. We’d sit there and watch films like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Other times we’d just leave Neverland and drive out in a car, blasting music really loud.
He even taught me how to do the moonwalk. We were in his dance studio. He taught me foot by foot. I couldn’t sleep that whole night. The thrill of pushing off the bar and sliding backwards in a moonwalk with the guy that made it famous was so exciting.
Later, me and my mum wanted to move to America to pursue my dreams of becoming a dancer and he helped us out. He gave me a big start by putting me in some of his videos like “Black or White”. The role he took on was one of a mentor.
He told me when I was seven that I’d be a film director and that’s what I became; he created a thirst for knowledge in me. Once, a mini recording studio turned up on my doorstep, but what was cool was that he stopped me from becoming a spoiled brat. He would say “This is for you, but I want to see you do something with it. Don’t take it for granted or I’ll take it back”.
The last time I saw him was in July 2008. I was in Vegas working on a show and he was living there. Me, my wife and him and his three kids had a barbecue. It was the most normal thing in the world. Me and my wife had been to Whole foods and bought stuff to cook. But when we got there he’d provided loads of catering. I said, “Dude, Why did you bring loads of catering? We’ve got regular food here”. I remember cooking outside while Michael sat there under an umbrella.
We had great times because he was such a caring person. Most of all I’ll miss those phone conversations. I still have my mobile phone with his number on it. I just cant bear the thoughts of deleting his messages.
Michael Jackson changed the world and, more personally, my life forever. He is the reason I dance, the reason I make music, and one of the main reasons I believe in the pure goodness of human kind. He was a close friend of mine for 20 years. His music, his movement, his personal words of inspiration and encouragement and his unconditional love will live inside of me forever. I will miss him immeasurably, but I know that he is now at peace and enchanting the heavens with a melody and a moonwalk.
I love you Michael.
- Wade Robson
When it comes to the furniture changing: Maybe they were actually trying to remake The Shining.
Haha, yes.
@@barrybathwater4877 have any links to those videos?
He'll send you a link to some tabloid
@@divneetkaur7552 😂
SO BASICALLY I DON'T GIVE A DAMM WHAT NO ONE SAIDS OR THINKS!!MICHAEL JACKSON WAS A FKIN SACRIFICE AS WELL AS PRINCE WHITNEY. LUTHER ETC ETC ETC!!Y'ALL GET IT!!!
You did a good job....These three clowns and whoever else is involved is a disgrace
You should ask several therapists who specialize in childhood sexual abuse what they think about the testimony of the two men.
i don't need to. I worked with abusers and their victims for years. And how much would a therapist know about how documentaries are produced?
@@collativelearning i am asking less because for their expertise on documentary film making and more on their 'read" of body language, facial expressions, emotional honesty, and the typical ways childhood sexual abuse dynamics/stories/psychology play out.having known several survivors and their stories, i find these two men highly believable. of course i could be wrong. but the math on why and how they would fabricate all of this to completely ruin the name of an icon who in that case would only ever have been good to them, at considerable expense of reputation and emotional well being, incurring the wrath of millions seems highly unlikely to say the least. a long drawn out highly public plot that they would involve their parents, wives, and indeed, children in, all for money and out of blatant dishonesty? pedophiles exist, MJ was a super traumatized and extremely weird person who's sexuality was obviously twisted and stunted.... sleepovers with very young boys, a new one every two years, two previous court cases, one settled out of court for a payoff, the other largely dismissed based on the now recanted testimony of one of these men... connecting the dots here on them telling the truth is much easier and more congruent with human behavior than the cynical alternative.
Kinda irrelevant to the purpose of this video about the editing, mind.
@@JimBCameron not really, the whole purpose of analyzing the editing is to support his hunch that the men are lying. he says it from the start.
@Julian Walker Finally, someone in the comments who makes sense.
Very very good points!!! 👏 👏 I think you're spot on
They are not a continuous recorded interview , they were filmed in a few days , the director has said that in many interviews . I don’t get why you assume there are various takes because of differences in the background .
@nicelnine594ever - It was a WHOLE DIFFERENT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can see snow in one scene, and the bushes are different. It was filmed over 17 months!!!!
The film was edited? Oh wow. That must mean they are lying. Who "edits" films?
@Sal Martinez I mean is that supposed to hurt me or punk me? Are you 12? It doesn't. My mom edits films? Ok. Michael Jackson was not who he said he was.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why the hell is everyone suddenly rehashing old allegations? I mean, did someone find a bank vault containing his fortune, and now they want every cent he had?
The 'victims' totally changed their stories, now looking for $$$ from MJs estate.
Well it’s either the truth, and they said in the interview that having children and nearing the age they were abused caused their trauma wounds to split open. If it’s lie or true, the world is actually willing to listen to victims of famous rapists. So it gives people the courage to come forward. Theoretically it also gives people the chance to con the system. I’m willing to believe them. An interview can’t really prove or disprove anything, but I’m still curious what rob thinks
MJ's debts at the time of his death were around $500 million. The MJ Estate turned it around. At the end of 2012 the huge debt were paid off and the Estate had been successful and managed to make a fortune. We're talking $Billions. 2013 Wade Robson popped up wanting a huge piece of the MJ Estate Pie.
You're not missing anything, you're quite on the money (excuse the pun). The lawsuit they are trying to succeed in towards mjs estate they want $1.5 billion in reward/damages, no thats not a mistake i said billion. Very very sketchy. So much contradictory information that debunks theses guys claims. I believe mj is innocent, its very convenient thay both these guys are both in the lowest of lows in their careers and financially not doing well. Hmmmm 🤔
Because no matter how long it takes, the truth always comes out. Of course, watch the doc and then conclude they are liars.
I just finished a course on shooting video interviews. I learned that you should really get at least three takes of every answer to allow options in editing and because some interviewees need time to warm up. No deception going on here. It's called filmmaking.
The reason why they mention the MJ companies as being complicits in the alleged crime is because only then they can make money out of it. Michael Jackson is dead. So they need to hold companies responsible. In the movie, they have another audience. Normal people. In their lawsuits, the judge is their audience. They change and twist their story according to their audience.
These discrepancies you talk about... make no sense. You say the accusers talk about their experiences and about Jackson himself, but not about lawsuits. That is not a "discrepancy". A discrepancy is defined as a lack of compatibility or similarity between two or more facts. The film is meant to only be about the 2 abused men's experiences, their families and their relationship with Jackson. It's not about lawsuits or other people, or anything else. That's not a discrepancy. That's just the intended content of the film.
No idea how accurate this is, but Wiki says:
"In February 2018, Reed and assistant producer Marguerite Gaudin flew to Hawaii to interview Robson.[18] Robson agreed to tell his story chronologically and omit no details.[18] A camera failed shortly after shooting began, but a solution was found; shooting continued until nighttime and continued throughout the second day. Reed traveled to Los Angeles later that week to shoot Safechuck's story in two days"
That might explain some movement between cameras in James's account, but to have a new sofa delivered midway through taping this interview seems unlikely.
I'm also fairly certain I read somewhere that Wade's interview was at a holiday cabin somewhere in Hawaii, rather than his home. However, if the camera did indeed fail shortly after they began, then there should be one noticeable shift in angle (and possibly picture quality/colour profile, unless they were the same camera), and then everything after should be consistent.
In an interview with Billboard, Reed states that Safechuck's interview took place an at AirBNB in "The Valley".
Wade's interview was shot over three 8 hour sessions, with much of the first days footage lost.
Reed's a very odd fellow. Claims he knew barely anything about MJ as he grew up in a household where TV and pop music were banned. Sounds like he's got a few repressed issues himself.
And there is still money to be made even after his death.
It would be amazing if all the narration parts from the two men were filmed without a single cough or semantic stumble or stage manager dropping a fork on the floor in the background or something. A rehearsed truth is still the truth (lawyers will coach their clients when they have to testify in court even though they will be telling the truth), and evidence of repetition is not evidence of lies. A truthful delivery can still come off poorly and suspect, and there's nothing suspicious in and of itself about multiple takes.
Astute reply but the MJ nutters will ignore it. They're as bad as the Trump nutters.
OJ was innocent
I would agree to a certain point. Definitely, each take can and should be thoroughly discussed beforehand. But, a true documentarian would surely one take a single instance of discussion or recollection. Many cuts in one instance of a recollection denote more of a vain for storytelling and not one of actual concern for factual disclosure.
i think they were being honest... you act like the interviews were all done in one day- when there was no suggestion that they were!
Lol... They filmed over multiple days. Reed mentions 3 straight days with Wade, and 2 with James - then did the ring portion at a later time. But if you are MJ you are untouchable. I'm finding the victim haterade quite amusing, and disgusting. But... "the way you make me feel"... ☺️
Just do 1 hrs worth of research besides this bullshit " documentary"and you'll see that they are both lying.
@@chantallamariej Alleged victims.....who have told different stories under oath.
A "film" having "editing"? What a discovery. Disappointing to see you go out of your way to defend a dead man instead of practicing EMPATHY.
👏🏻
Pumpkin Mumkin no need to defend him. This is a story told by two men. If and when it goes to trial and proven then perhaps we can start defending him. True or not. How and why this was done is a disgrace.
Tell a story and all of a sudden it’s facts. This is what is very disturbing. Go about your research yeah hanging out with children and or apparently sleeping with them - go and do research it takes time but I found out more about mj case than what I did back in 2005. More I find more these guys are liars!
Just saying
I have empathy for the victims of lies and greed. The Jackson family.
You have obviously never made a documentary film. I have. Your observations and screen shots don't prove "multiple takes". It's clear that they didn't just say "action" and cameras rolled from start to finish. "You doing ok? You wanna take a break?" They obviousy took breaks. The director knew to a certain extent what the guys would be revealing, but in the spontaneity of the interviews, things obviously came up. The director made the choice to light them in a particular way and make it "look like a movie", which I personally don't agree with. But that's a stylistic choice and that does not mean things were scripted. Do you understand the concept of cutaways? That's when you have to reshoot additional shots to illustrate something that comes up but for which you have no coverage. They've got coverage for 2 static angles. They would have needed a third mobile camera to catch the rings box, for example. But I'm sure the ring box was indeed an afterthought. Mention of it is made, but there's no coverage, so they shoot a close up after the interview. It's not trickery. Your false interpretations are dishonest. Regarding the couch in the background, it's a modular set. They could have/might have/would have moved them when they were taking breaks. The concept of "continuity" shouldn't even be an issue with a documentary. Precisely because there is no script. As for the chair changing, the curtains changing, or the glass appearing or disappearing, they are all total non-issues...precisely because they are not making a scripted movie where continuity errors are to be avoided at all costs. Sorry, but you're way off base.
It's clear they wanted to make it feel like they caught everything in one take, like a confession video. What you're implying is that that wasn't their intention. If it was like you said, then why bother even wearing the same clothes or even the same looks, haircut, etc.? Even the patio lighting varies greatly during the "documentary".
"A lot of people, adults and kids, sleep in the same bed or bedroom under various circumstances and it's not a foregone conclusion that sexual interaction has occurred."
Yeah, those people are called "mom" and "dad". Listen to yourself, for Chrissake.
God help anyone who ever accuses me of acting when talking about my abuse.
Ask yourself why you're trying to debunk these men. Is it an allegiance to Michael? Are you predisposed to not believe victims? Are you more entranced by entertaining the idea of a grand conspiracy than accepting the extremely common occurrence of sexual abuse against kids?
Ask yourself what continuity errors mean. Do you think talking at length about something traumatizing is easy to do? Do you think that breaking the interviews up into increments is not something that would be necessary, given the weightiness of the topic and the likelihood that the subject would want a break? Do you think that every interview in a documentary or television show is done at a person's home?
Ask yourself about your expertise of this subject. Are you a licensed psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, therapist, or counselor? Are your a victim or perpetrator of abuse? Are you a trained body language expert or detective? What authority do you have, as a film critic, to make any kind of proclamation about their statements?
Let the courts do their thing, let the public opinion fall where it may, y all means form your own opinion, but don't add to the propaganda with evidence as inconsequential and flimsy as "continuity errors."
Did you watch Rob's video?
Are we not on Rob's channel?
Rob provides context to his arguments and makes his case on more than what you wrote was "inconsequential and flimsy". Besides, Rob has talked before, and repeated here in the comments, about his experiences in social work. Do you feel the video he's made and the focus he's chosen does a disservice to victims such as yourself?
Great stuff here !! Respect. Thanks a lot for this. Some important things many of us missed. Clearly shows that this is too good to be true. NO real victim would do something like this for the whole world to see, so much blow by blow details of what happened. Clearly Dan Reed worked on their idea and wrote the script for this.
Also Wade & James are in the entertainment industry. So it's easier to learn the tricks of the trade to be convincing to get what you want. Which I can clearly see they were acting.