@@TheCreator919yeah, don't cheap out... Just throw Apple the equivalent of another Mac Mini for additional 16GB of RAM and additional 256GB of SSD storage, because that's absolutely reasonable thing to do... 🤦
A Computer Science student here, AI is hyped, do you remember back in time when functionalities in apps were called Algorithms? Nothing changed its code but with a fancy label.
It's a tradition in the tech space to have big marketing for a feature that the overwhelming majority of users don't use or care about. By the time AI hardware actually matters, what normal people have now isn't going to be powerful enough to be useful.
@@yasu_redyep! You hit the nail on the head. Reminds me of when they shoved the phrase "the cloud" into any and all tech marketing. Eventually, end users came to realize that "cloud" meant a subscription or a device that turns into a pumpkin when the server shuts down.
I'm glad someone finally said it. You should be able to buy a laptop-in-a-box (without a screen, keyboard, battery, camera, speakers, etc) for much less. Certainly much less than Apple!
@@Trappy-C Of course, that's what this video is about. It doesn't seem like you have a point? A mini PC should be significantly cheaper than an equivalent Mac, laptop or ITX/mATX/ATX PC. It's basically an all-in-one motherboard in a box with a brick PSU.
This... I would've bought a mini PC a long time ago, but I couldn't justify the prices, especially when you consider that they're just laptops with features missing. I instead opted to get an SFF office PC with a GPU upgrade, not as small or efficient, but it does the job for me, for a lot less money.
Honestly at this point I want a £100-300 SBC with everything socketed (except the apu) the size of a HDD, would be bonus if its an am4 socket and the sbc is the size of GPU Look up those Virtex FPGAs for reference
Thank ai. If it didn't exist apple would be happy selling you 8gb of ram for another 10 years while contually repeating the magic words of Mac is more optimized lmao.
@@lharsayYou can always use an external SSD. And the internal SSD is actually removable. There is a Kickstarter project that aims to make SSD replacements possible. So you might get cheap storage upgrades after all.
@@lharsaystorage isn't a issue for m4 mac mini as it has 3 thunderbolt 4 port, with a nvme adapter for like 20$ off AliExpress you can achieve better speeds than base m4 mac ssd speed with any gen 4 ssd
One thing i would love is if these mini pcs had more pcie lanes and were powered over usb c. 1 oculink port should be standard. That way you can have a powerful pc on the go that is way cheaper than an equivalent laptop, a portable screen and keyboard mouse combo is just so much cheaper.
@@mug786 because performance ? USB4 is 40Gbit/sec tops but that is not all usable for the eGPU while Occulink is 63Gbit/sec pure PCIe bandwidth. So you gain 50% performance at least.
@@mug786 Oculink is better in every way compared to USB4. Until we see Thunderbolt 5 in more products than a $4000 Razer Blade 18, Oculink is the way to go, just 4 raw PCIe 4.0 lanes without any protocol. And it was a standar in the server world, it just never made it's way to the consumer products because it wasn't made to be un/plugged hundred of times and on the go, you need to turn on de devices already connected.
@@Just_An_Ignacio the problem is being forced to shutdown / restart to get the egpu working via oculink in most cases. usb4 is still so common because its convenience of plug and play is a hard thing give up to be honest. but with todays products shutdown / startup is pretty short but its still a hassle in terms of having to do it everytime you want to mount your handheld / mini pc
ETA Prime should not be anyone's point of reference. He has an agenda of hyping up whatever device he's promotin- I mean, reviewing, so his FPS numbers are inaccurate at best and downright deceptive at worst
@@profbx5258 I'll try to break down my comment because you appeared not to understand it. "ETA Prime should not be anyone's point of reference": Iceberg Tech is using ETA as his reference to compare FPS numbers and I'm saying ETA should not be trusted to provide accurate performance numbers. "He has an agenda of hyping up whatever device he's promotin- I mean, reviewing": He has never done comparative benchmarks across different products. He'll just show Geekbench and 3D Mark results in a vacuum with no point of comparison against similarly-specced systems. Viewers have no idea if it's a good or bad result given the build components. REAL reviewers show graphs. He claimed a N100 mini pc idled at 4W. A N100 unit idles between 6 and 10W. REAL reviewers show graphs and/or multimeter readings. He glosses over issues like thermal throttling, high fan noise, high idle power consumption. REAL reviewers also mention a product's shortcomings - not doing so is to just be a shill. "His FPS numbers are inaccurate at best and downright deceptive at worst": He always verbally says his claimed FPS number, without benchmark results shown on screen. Yes, he sometimes shows Afterburner FPS numbers on screen during gameplay, but those are spot readings, not average FPS. To further add to that, I've never seen him even mention 1% or 0.1% lows because that will show the product in a less favorable light. He has claimed FPS numbers that end users have been unable to replicate. Case in point: this same video we're commenting on. ETA claimed 88 FPS in Spider Man, while Iceberg managed 67. Having said all that, I'll reiterate my point: ETA should not be trusted nor used as a point of reference. I think that was rather clear, don't you?
@@profbx5258 ETA buying the mini is irrelevant. He's a notorious shill that only shows products in the best light instead of doing professional critical reviews so shouldn't be trusted
I actually bought my ser8 with my own money! I'm going to get a mac mini m4 too for doing stuff like video and audio work, but being able to load up my ser8 with 96gb ram and 8tb of nvme for like.. $600 total... is amazing value so I'm running it as a server, jellyfin for my tvs, and local llm models :D
Don't take my word for it, but part of the extra costs from the tariffs might be passed on to consumers in other countries rather than just the United States. (If anyone is about to come in and say that consumers won't have to deal with higher prices as a result of tariffs, and that companies will just take the hit to their profits, you have another thing coming.)
@@yasu_red possible, but doubt it. Using the rest of the world to subsidise the US would be infuriating, though on brand for the US as "making shit decisions that make the whole world worse" is kinda their thing.
@yasu_red yeah if they increase the price of the product because of the tariffs, it makes sense it would at least party effect prices in the EU/other countries
I love the feel of Mac hardware and the ecosystem, but until the software I need for work runs on macOS, these mini systems are the closest I’ll get to having a Mac mini.
If there’s 1 thing the Mac mini does do well so far, it’s heft: not having a power supply you have to cable manage means it’s really space efficient, probably even more space efficient than some USB docks
Mini PCs haven't pushed on as much as you'd have hoped. They are a replacement for office desktops but we all want them to replace gaming machines, which they can't do because of the IGPU. Stric Point and Lunar Lake could help, but they are way too expensive for mini PC manufacturers - you can buy an HP laptop for the same price as a Minisforum AI PC. What we need is a silent mini PC that becomes a universal desktop PC replacement for offices to lower the cost. The Mac is a really good buy for the price, and you can put up with not running the odd game for that.
Ryzen Ai Max+ is said to be 16c/32t and 40CU and a load of AI rubbish of top. they say due to power it will be in high end laptops, but AMD is said to now being focused on small household and office workstation with small foot print like a mini PC market. Because with that gaming and Ai power it and a TDP or 120w it would be wasted in a hand held, table or laptop. Laptop people love fine and cool and with 40CU's it not going to be cool or hold a low temps. So it will end up hopefully being a one stop OEM mini PC's but with workstation power which is what most of use mini pc fans love low power need for a computer and small form factor that fits the room. Not a child RGB sofa sized, water-cooled, RTX 5090, 4000w PSU that melt and enough fans to lift a Boeing 747. just to play fortshite at 4K ultra, path+,RAY+ and all that rubbish. most people just won't small, power bill their don't have to sell a kidney for, and fits in with the décor.
Most people aren't gamers. This is the problem with the internet, people assume everyone wastes time on gaming. I have a custom build and I don't game on it too.
I wouldnt replace my main pc with a mac, but my m1 air is my main laptop now. apple silicon is seriously impressive, amd and intel need to catch up for portable devices for sure Ig Tea
Lunarlake doesn’t make sense for it. Efficiency is a lot less important for this form factor and lunarlake is more expensive to produce than its competitors
@@Marauder-q2v it’s hardly as if AMD aren’t charging through the nose for the HX370. Manufacturers seem to think Lunar lake does make sense too, as they are making them. The graphics performance is reasonable, it’s going to make perfect sense for some.
The main issue with the apple thing here is that the price is a lie, in a subtle way, 16gb of ram is not enough neither is the 256gb ssd, but you can expand this via usbC, the ram, ram is there forever and non expandable. Once you start running out, you are forever running out. If you want 32gb there goes 1000+ quid.
256gb is criminal, and the number of people who just parrot the typical external drive line is strange. I don’t buy a mini pc to hang external storage off it. The base M4 is decent, but it’s a compromised setup. Adding any upgrades at all makes it a hard sell.
Don't worry. Ballooning ai models will force apple to increase base model ram otherwise they'll get left behind against windows machines that run ai on the cloud. Apple has enough profit selling services to raise the amount of ram, apple execs just need a good reason to increase ram because they full well know professionals don't buy their low ram computers.
I think snazzy labs put it best: it is the best pc deal ever, until you run out of storage, which is very, very quick nowadays. And the price doubling for the next tier in storage is madness and completely ruins the value of the product.
@ 8gb is absolutely fine for most macs! Artificial inflation is causing them to bleed money and upgrade Ram just so they can keep up with other tech companies scamming people to upgrade pc's for a feature no one uses!!!!
The Mac Mini is not a $600 USD machine, it is a $1,200 USD machine. Unless you upgrade your RAM and SSD the base model is almost useless if you want to do some serious work. Hell, even for regular use it would become very hard after a while. And the Mac Mini cannot be upgraded, you are stuck with whatever configuration you selected.
the bad thing about these mac minis is that they charge extra for storage and RAM, but as far as the capabilities of the m4 chip are concerned it is quite a bit above the average chinese mini pc. if someone wants the mac ecosystem, needs to work to develop IOS and/or edit video or something like that it works quite well, and in gaming from what i see the m4 performs much more than the base integrated motherboards of many of these mini pc's. so for $600 the base model of the mac mini is the best currently as far as mini pc's are concerned, although the pro seems like a rip off to me, you can build something more competent even though it consumes more.
The big issue is ram. For a desktop unit, having additional storage plugged in is pretty much a non issue. You're not going to saturate a USB 4 connection with a few drives
Market disruption to upsell for profit to return shareholder value is Apple's style. It happened with the iPhone and now again with this model change to the Mac Mini. Being miserly with storage is a bit scammy but really getting a little box that just does computing has never been easier these days.
Bought the Mac mini base model and I am very impressed with the performance. I tested some CAD software (Fusion 360) and it's incredibly what this little box can do. Storage wise it's a typical apple insult
M4 lineup performs like poo in native BG3. =/ An R5 5500 + RX 6600 budget system beats Mac Mini *M4 Pro.* So those synthetic benchmark results do not translate well to gaming. You need the M4 Max to approach higher mid-range gaming PCs. But the efficiency is great. But so is the price.
Higher Midrange would mean something like a 7900GRE/XT, 4070 ti/ ti Super and a Intel i5 14600k or Ryzen 7 7700x. The M4 Max is never reaching that performance outside of synthetic benchmarks and workloads made specifically with the M4 Chip in mind.
@@pietruszek1998 Yes, in BG3 M4 Max reaches fps of those systems. Maybe it is a bad benchmark for gaming performance per se because BG3 is mostly CPU bound.
@@MEMETIZER And it's much easier to optimize something that has like 3 iterations every year. On the PC side of things there are like near endless possible combinations that not always work well together.
11:30 hard to take ETA Prime's numbers seriously sometimes when he uses FSR Ultra Performance and Frame Gen in single player titles like Horizon Forbidden West and God of War Ragnarok on APUs in mini PCs and handhelds like the Steam Deck. Sure you're reading near 60 at 720p low preset but what about the blur from FSR and input delay with frame gen? Also tests in quiet areas which aren't representative of rest of the game.
My BIG issue with the AMD chips is i can't work out the features and how effective the chip is from thier name. Who the hell thought needing a decoder wheel was a good idea i will hopefully never know...
Just a heads up, CyberPunk is not a good game to choose for performance comparisons. CrossOver translation is missing something that seemingly cuts off performance increases when you step up the CPU and GPU hardware. The M2 Ultra and the M4 Max perform about the same as the M4 base and M1 Pro despite the Ultra and Max having several times the CPU and GPU cores and having much more video RAM available. So we really can't tell what the actual performance of the base M4 is in that game, as it is software/compatibility locked before reaching peak. Also anyone considering buying third party SSD upgrades to their mini PC, can also do it on Mac to save money, as the Mac Mini has Thunderbolt ports. That should make the price to performance comparisons a little more fair.
Fun fact: 7840HS DOES have an NPU ... As for the M4, less flexible software selection and the price beyond the base model is not for everyone. I mean if we are talking about 1k+ prices you can as well test against the HX370 ...
As well as having significantly more powerful GPUs, compatibility wise anything that runs on the Steam Deck runs through Crossover as they use the same tech. So connecting to an eGPU isn’t a concern
The "AI" we actually want -- like running ChatGPT -- is not achievable with the AI feature of current consumer CPU's. All they can do is generating some stupid small images or removing backgrounds of a photo, etc, which we can do online for free. It's just a gimmick, like the 3D screen phone.
Thanks for revealing this Mini PC existed for me! I just ordered one to temporarily replace my desktop with its failing 13th gen i9. This is going to make one epic Linux Mini PC
If Apple,a company who introduced NPU since 2017 have to double their base RAM for every of their AI-ready device. It should tell you that RAM is far more important than these NPU.
I've been thing this too. I know the work AMD has done with Microsoft and Sony are probably reserved for their consoles, but we know it's possible to cram that much performance into one chip, so nothing would've prevented them from making a KILLER apu chip for mini pc's (Of course within the power constraints).
Seen people laugh at mini PC "because mac m4 mini is cheap" disregarding that we're going to be gaming in linux, upgrading the ram, throwing a 4 TB NVME in and keeping the option of using Oculink. If I was an office rat in productivity sure, give me a beefy mini and a pre-paid Adobe package!
what i want to see on these minipcs that are replacing pcs is a upgradeable gpu, not via usb 4 or oculink nvidia had that connector for laptop gpus, mxm iirc, this is where it should be used
A mini pc with an eGPU doesn’t make much sense to me. Why get a tiny pc only to immediately make it much bulkier (and uglier imo) adding a massive GPU, power supply, converter board and cabling to it, with the added bonus of several limitations. In that sense mini pcs like the HX99 seem like a better pick.
There's hardly anything I detest more than all the AI marketing that has happened for the past year or so. These companies think they can stick those two letters into anything and ask premium for the service. Disgusting attempt at scamming people.
I got a SER7 with a 7840HS when only the SER8 with NPU was available. AI is the new thing to goose stock prices and PR. The 8745 is not much more performance than the 7840HS. The SER7 is good for games that are a few years old and can play current AAA games at 1080p just fine. I was able to install another NvME drive. Four screws on the bottom of the SER7. Take off the lid and one screw to install the drive.
For students and office work should be fine. I don't want to defend Apple but if they have done anything well is optimize the OS to work nicely enough with only 8GB of memory, unlike windows 11 that *needs* 16GB to work smoothly. About the storage, i think you can use an external SSD over USB C 3.2 or thunderbolt, depending the model of mac. But yeah, they clearly milk their customers with memory and storage, but we are talking about Mac users, the probably still think that 8GB of Ram is enough like in their iPhones.
I got a SER7 with a 7840HS when only the SER8 with NPU was available. AI is the new thing to goose stock prices and PR. The 8745 is not much more performance than the 7840HS. The SER7 is good for games that are a few years old and can play current AAA games at 1080p just fine.
Removing the AI crap is a big win. Its getting tiresome having to disable all varieties of AI nonsense and trackers/ads on every device I own. AI provides no benefit to the user greater than its ability to better exploit the user for large companies.
Eh, neural networks can be useful at getting "good enough" results with less power, there have been npus in iphones for a long while now, it just wasnt a feature they advertised. the npu isnt the issue, its the software that people decide to write for it.
Hmm tough choice.... NOT. Of course people would get the less expensive option that doesn't have the useless AI "feature". Unfortunately 890M graphics are only available with Ryzen AI CPUs so far :(
The blinks biggest problem is it runs windows. If it had at the purchase form your ability to pick any other operating system. It might actually be useful. Most people don’t want to self install os’s.
Given that other OSs on X86 would be Linux, I'm pretty sure most Linux users would be quite happy to install their own OS, as they'll have done it on literally every other system they've used and know it's a doddle.
Mini PCs have been a terrible and pointless niche for a long time. Most people have the room for a legit Tiny PC, if not a slim MicroATX one. For around $600 I was able to put a 4060 Low profile and a 12500t system in around 2 Liters. Most people want to put these near a TV, and most TVs have more than enough room near them to hide a system. My TV has had a string of Lenovo 8th/9th gen Tiny systems, which by and large offer many benefits: higher performance, reduced cost, more parts availability, and even GPU support (P600,P620,RX6400, which yes, an RX6400 is faster than any iGPU to this day. The Dell RX6500 is even around $120). Also on offer is socketed CPUs with optional 65w copper heatsinks.
All Mini PCs need for zero bottleneck eGPU support is Thunderbolt 5. An i9-14900HX could hold up an RTX 4090 just fine if it wasn't for 2016 Thunderbolt 3 speeds, since TB4 didn't actually make TB faster. Come on, we are so close!!!
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Oculink already offers this speed since many years and is way cheaper. There are some benefits for using Thunderbolt, but in terms of eGPU I dont think it is worth waiting for.
I don't think a mac mini PC is appealing to anyone who would want a windows mini PC for the simple fact of game support. Besides, you need to spend 1000 euros just to get adequate ram for splitting between the CPU/GPU, and only half a terabyte of storage. Not at all compelling.
I waiting on the Ryzen AI max+ apu's, as it has massive 32 cores and 40CU of gpu. But it will have a 120w TDP which mean it might lead to price mini's and loud coolers. That is the main issue on these boxes noise. I have a N100 most of the time it silent but if I push it the fan is so loud in it little box. LDDR4 soldered can ran faster aiding the Igpu. Mac have the right Idea that not many people up grade so they remove the option and can things down and get faster results at lower power, while beating PC, PC's are lots of part put together issue is to go from CPU toi Ram you have the signal travelling from one PCB to another. It the Ai Max+ GPU hold up and you can board with both the LDDR5/6 and GDDR would make a great PC mini but the cost would be criminal.
if you want a cheap laptop then the M1 is still very good at very low price used (if you don't need to be on windows). I am still waiting for some new CPUs/APUs so I can remove my tower PC (currently mostly using the steam deck as my replacement)
I would still choose x86 over ARM even if it uses twice the power and still end up being 20% slower in single thread. Unfortunately x86 isn't even able to do this. Hell they are even lagging behind in GPU department. It's different story with AI and content creation, which could really benefit from APU's unified memory, is leaded by CUDA and optix, nvenc. Making such APU would only hurt nvidia professional GPUs which comes with large vram capacity. So for that purpose Mac are still good PCs.
these mini pcs are still way too expensive for the amount of performance they have. People shouldn't be excited about games running at 640p/720p upscaled to 1080p at medium (ish) settings on modern titles. Junk GPUs from years ago were able to do this. The m4 has shown the world just how overpriced x86 cpus has gotten considering I'm sure the m4 Mac mini is cheap to produce and will go on sale at some point. Apple likes fat profit margins on all their devices. I've seen some of these mini pcs cost as much or more than building a real pc with a decent gpu, which is ludicrous. I'm sure the Chinese mini pc manufacturers are gouging on them as well. No amount of power savings can justify these machines. By now we should have apus with at least 3060 level gpu performance. not 1650 level....a dumpster fire gpu from 5 years ago.
DaVinci doesn’t use the dedicated hardware encoders, it uses OpenCL or CUDA and requires 4 GB of dedicated VRAM. By default most APU based machines only reserve 1 or 2 GB without changing a BIOS setting to reserve more VRAM. On a 32 GB system used for gaming or light video editing and graphics work I recommend setting it to 8 GB to facilitate higher texture settings in games and smoother operating in graphics programs.
@@TrusteftTech They support OpenCL, just the default VRAM reservation is too low for DaVinci to use it. You need to raise the VRAM reservation to 4GB at a minimum to use OpenCL. Hardware encoders aren’t used very often because they can only encode video and can’t do any of the post-processing effects that are used frequently when editing video. Hardware encoders are moreso for capturing or transcoding video rather than editing.
The issue with apple machines is that they can not run all applicatgions that an x86 windows/linux machine can. Apple is can not take place on a desk for that reason. Good luck on using an arm machine for mechanical design work as it just cant run the "industry standard" software used by the industry.
Well hang on, you need to pay way more to equip the mac with an acceptable amount of ram and storage for going into 2025. With 24GB of ram and 1TB of storage it's $1200. Otherwise you're just planned obsolescenced. At $1200 you can build something with more performance than AMDs shitty APUs
AI is useless. I don't like the taste of adhesive on my pizza, neither do i want to generate nonsense images of wobbly deformed things and people. Chat bots are a nuisance. I'm upset that the Bank i have my account is using AI as customer support. It's as useful in answering specific questions as a wet match in the dark. And has the comprehension and memory of an Alzheimer's patient. //typo
Had a lot of thoughts while watching the video. No I don't care about AI and having NPUs to run them on my computers. I am very much Yes to expandability even if its just storage, ram (and maybe wifi since its also in M.2 form) because changing those can have a significant difference in user experience. Yeah the ARM based Macs have impressive performance, but their expensive ass upgrades like the storage is stupid. The power efficiency of ARM is amazing, but the lack of software that can take advantage of all that power reminds me of DankPods video of him complaining about the M4 iPad Pro having amazing performance hampered by the software or lack thereof. Makes me wonder if the x86_64 architecture itself being CISC (Complex Instruction Set Architecture) based is causing a significant hurdle in lowering power efficiency since internally they convert down to RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Architecture) instructions. And no Intel doing 1 or 1.1GHz base clocks on their mobile chips (to make their TDP look lower by their definition of basing it on base frequency) still doesn't even make them close to ARM efficiency. The hardware acceleration aspect with your video editing example is interesting, because for me AV1 has no use right now and I would rather have H.264 & H.265 acceleration for the media files I deal with. Been watching some retro PC stuff and its interesting to think that there were dedicated MPEG decode cards and the like while iGPUs and dedicated GPUs just shrug those off now since they have the hardware for those. Edit: Formatting
"Lack of Software" on ARM isn't exactly the correct way to say it but the available software on ARM (may it be Windows, Linux, or Mac) is still more limited than their x86_64 counterparts. A binary translation layer like Rosetta 2 on Mac or Box86/Box64 on Linux bridges that but there's some performance penalty (can vary from little to being unusable, assuming it works because I've read some posts on people complaining there's apps that don't work) compared to running stuff that was compiled for ARM.
ARM can't multitask to save its literal goddamn life. Soldered memory. non-upgradeable storage, to the normal end user. Even _if_ you are capable of micro-soldering to improve storage, you need _another mac entirely_ to get the stupid thing bootable again. Apple's recirculatory cooling system is geforce fx 5800 levels of bad. Much as I will give Tim Cook shit for his disgustingly malicious behavior, it does signpost that many of these mini pc's are overpriced and by a huge margin.
I think PCs have to change. Imagine if the Ryzen 9000-series all had the AI Silicon (NPU) on them as well, the reviews would've been "It performs like the 7000-series, BUT it has AI silicon(NPU) on there, which is useless now, it may be to CPUs what Raytracing was to GPUs when nVidia introduced the RTX-2000-Series".
I'd disagree, I got a minisforum ms-a1 with a r7 7700, 1 TB ssd, 16 gb of 5200Mhz CL38 ram for $570 and it is a beast. Could have gotten a 8700G for just 15 dollars more, but I ordered the DEG1 and I'm planning to reuse my old 3060 on it. Genuinely considered the mac mini for like a week before making the plunge on black friday, got too many great deals to ignore and it has been awesome.
So You Want to Buy Mac Mini 600$?? 16GB Ram 250GB Storage??? 600$$$ And This is Good To You??? RUclipsrs Are Stupid Today Even 999$ Mini Mac Is Unusable You Need 1 - 2 TB Storage For Workstation That 400$ Mini PC 24GB Ram 1TB Storage Is Enough For Workstation And You Say Mini PC Need To Change What??? So You RUclipsrs are Ok For Small Storage Small Ram Apple 600% Even 999$$ Still Small Storage Not Average Consumer Workstation RUclipsrs Sure Are Rich To Buy This OverCharge Apple
There are people like me who would happily pay extra to NOT have an Apple product - try upgrading that "Bargain" $599 Mac, then look at what the next higher spec model costs - it is a complete mystery to me why people are blind to this. An yes I have used MacOS on my work Macbook and it is a huge "meh" for me - gave me a new-found appreciation for Windows
The good news is that AMD will release Strix Halo in the next few months. 16 cores and ~4070 mobile gpu performance. Unfortunately, it won't be cheap...
Its hysterical that Apple's board thinks any device with 256GB is worth $600 in late 2024. A $200 upcharge for 500GB? Anyone can buy a 2TB ssd for like $100 now if its going into a normal laptop, mini-pc oir desktop. Doing their best nvidia impression with VRAM i suppose. Weak. And macOS sucks on top of that and is getting super locked down to the point you can barely run anything on it that didnt come from apple's own store. Overpriced, overhyped, lame sandbox. Wall street is falling over themselves about AI but every normal person I know doesnt give a rat's ass. If I owned the stock I'd cash out about now.
at this point, AI should be called Artificial Inflation lmao.
Agreed, apple could get away selling 8gb ram base model macs until 2030 if AI didn't inflate ram requirements....
LOL love that one XD
@@chokeeweebeei mean even 16 gb feels like 8gb in recent days. I have 64gb... (Ddr4... Got it for really cheap)
wait, wasnt that the meaning of ai?
the more you know
AI means: artificial idiocy.
Shipping with 256 gb ssd in 2024 is criminal.
fr 500gb should be the bare minimum
Use an external ssd or don’t cheap out and get the larger storage version
@@TheCreator919yeah, don't cheap out... Just throw Apple the equivalent of another Mac Mini for additional 16GB of RAM and additional 256GB of SSD storage, because that's absolutely reasonable thing to do... 🤦
Mini PCs Need To Stop Sponsoring Videos
ETA Prime would starve if that were the case.
A Computer Science student here, AI is hyped, do you remember back in time when functionalities in apps were called Algorithms?
Nothing changed its code but with a fancy label.
AI AI AI AI; it's all hype for selling stuff with a higher price.
Nobody asked for it but their tactics works...how is this possible?(●__●)
It's a tradition in the tech space to have big marketing for a feature that the overwhelming majority of users don't use or care about. By the time AI hardware actually matters, what normal people have now isn't going to be powerful enough to be useful.
agreed 64kb of memory is more than enough for everyone!! Stop artificial inflation! Return to dos!!!
@@yasu_redyep! You hit the nail on the head. Reminds me of when they shoved the phrase "the cloud" into any and all tech marketing. Eventually, end users came to realize that "cloud" meant a subscription or a device that turns into a pumpkin when the server shuts down.
The only people interested in AI are shareholders that want to sell the same things for more money
I'm glad someone finally said it. You should be able to buy a laptop-in-a-box (without a screen, keyboard, battery, camera, speakers, etc) for much less. Certainly much less than Apple!
It’s called a pc have you ever heard of one
@@Trappy-C Of course, that's what this video is about. It doesn't seem like you have a point? A mini PC should be significantly cheaper than an equivalent Mac, laptop or ITX/mATX/ATX PC. It's basically an all-in-one motherboard in a box with a brick PSU.
This... I would've bought a mini PC a long time ago, but I couldn't justify the prices, especially when you consider that they're just laptops with features missing. I instead opted to get an SFF office PC with a GPU upgrade, not as small or efficient, but it does the job for me, for a lot less money.
@@memenation5105 Yes, the SFF enterprise PCs are often a better way to go than these mini PCs, especially if you can get them used / off-lease.
Honestly at this point I want a £100-300 SBC with everything socketed (except the apu) the size of a HDD, would be bonus if its an am4 socket and the sbc is the size of GPU
Look up those Virtex FPGAs for reference
I think that Intel and AMD mini PC's are safe as long as Apple keeps overcharging for memory and storage upgrades.
Not really
One of the best value Mini PC is from Apple... What a time to be alive
Thank ai. If it didn't exist apple would be happy selling you 8gb of ram for another 10 years while contually repeating the magic words of Mac is more optimized lmao.
Only if you don't need more than 16GB RAM and 256GB storage.
@@lharsayYou can always use an external SSD.
And the internal SSD is actually removable. There is a Kickstarter project that aims to make SSD replacements possible. So you might get cheap storage upgrades after all.
@@lharsaystorage isn't a issue for m4 mac mini as it has 3 thunderbolt 4 port, with a nvme adapter for like 20$ off AliExpress you can achieve better speeds than base m4 mac ssd speed with any gen 4 ssd
@@lharsay Which is... impossible. There is nobody in that category. 256 of SSD storage is simply ridiculous.
One thing i would love is if these mini pcs had more pcie lanes and were powered over usb c. 1 oculink port should be standard. That way you can have a powerful pc on the go that is way cheaper than an equivalent laptop, a portable screen and keyboard mouse combo is just so much cheaper.
Absolutely. This should be more of a thing. Mini PCs should be the cheapest option.
why introduce non-standard oculink when you have usb4.
@@mug786 because performance ? USB4 is 40Gbit/sec tops but that is not all usable for the eGPU while Occulink is 63Gbit/sec pure PCIe bandwidth. So you gain 50% performance at least.
@@mug786 Oculink is better in every way compared to USB4. Until we see Thunderbolt 5 in more products than a $4000 Razer Blade 18, Oculink is the way to go, just 4 raw PCIe 4.0 lanes without any protocol.
And it was a standar in the server world, it just never made it's way to the consumer products because it wasn't made to be un/plugged hundred of times and on the go, you need to turn on de devices already connected.
@@Just_An_Ignacio the problem is being forced to shutdown / restart to get the egpu working via oculink in most cases.
usb4 is still so common because its convenience of plug and play is a hard thing give up to be honest. but with todays products shutdown / startup is pretty short but its still a hassle in terms of having to do it everytime you want to mount your handheld / mini pc
ETA Prime should not be anyone's point of reference. He has an agenda of hyping up whatever device he's promotin- I mean, reviewing, so his FPS numbers are inaccurate at best and downright deceptive at worst
Considering that ETA actually bought the Mac Mini and that was the referenced machine what is your point!?!
His point is dont trust anything that dishonest shill says, duh @@profbx5258
@@profbx5258 I'll try to break down my comment because you appeared not to understand it.
"ETA Prime should not be anyone's point of reference": Iceberg Tech is using ETA as his reference to compare FPS numbers and I'm saying ETA should not be trusted to provide accurate performance numbers.
"He has an agenda of hyping up whatever device he's promotin- I mean, reviewing":
He has never done comparative benchmarks across different products. He'll just show Geekbench and 3D Mark results in a vacuum with no point of comparison against similarly-specced systems. Viewers have no idea if it's a good or bad result given the build components. REAL reviewers show graphs.
He claimed a N100 mini pc idled at 4W. A N100 unit idles between 6 and 10W. REAL reviewers show graphs and/or multimeter readings.
He glosses over issues like thermal throttling, high fan noise, high idle power consumption. REAL reviewers also mention a product's shortcomings - not doing so is to just be a shill.
"His FPS numbers are inaccurate at best and downright deceptive at worst":
He always verbally says his claimed FPS number, without benchmark results shown on screen. Yes, he sometimes shows Afterburner FPS numbers on screen during gameplay, but those are spot readings, not average FPS. To further add to that, I've never seen him even mention 1% or 0.1% lows because that will show the product in a less favorable light.
He has claimed FPS numbers that end users have been unable to replicate. Case in point: this same video we're commenting on. ETA claimed 88 FPS in Spider Man, while Iceberg managed 67.
Having said all that, I'll reiterate my point: ETA should not be trusted nor used as a point of reference. I think that was rather clear, don't you?
@@profbx5258 ETA buying the mini is irrelevant. He's a notorious shill that only shows products in the best light instead of doing professional critical reviews so shouldn't be trusted
@@alejandrolomeli6871 so wait, matching settings to a unit that isn’t a paid review is what….? Seriously, it was the available example. Get a grip.
I actually bought my ser8 with my own money! I'm going to get a mac mini m4 too for doing stuff like video and audio work, but being able to load up my ser8 with 96gb ram and 8tb of nvme for like.. $600 total... is amazing value so I'm running it as a server, jellyfin for my tvs, and local llm models :D
If the US puts big tariffs on stuff from China, how does this impact the price of these goods in the EU? Will prices go down?
Don't take my word for it, but part of the extra costs from the tariffs might be passed on to consumers in other countries rather than just the United States.
(If anyone is about to come in and say that consumers won't have to deal with higher prices as a result of tariffs, and that companies will just take the hit to their profits, you have another thing coming.)
@@yasu_red That would be silly. As the producers don't have extra cost exporting to the EU, other producers can easily undercut them.
@@yasu_red possible, but doubt it. Using the rest of the world to subsidise the US would be infuriating, though on brand for the US as "making shit decisions that make the whole world worse" is kinda their thing.
@yasu_red yeah if they increase the price of the product because of the tariffs, it makes sense it would at least party effect prices in the EU/other countries
Corporations keep using AI as a buzzword for the general public but it only excites executives and businesses
I love the feel of Mac hardware and the ecosystem, but until the software I need for work runs on macOS, these mini systems are the closest I’ll get to having a Mac mini.
If there’s 1 thing the Mac mini does do well so far, it’s heft: not having a power supply you have to cable manage means it’s really space efficient, probably even more space efficient than some USB docks
You are not taking into consideration all the dongles and external storage you will be forced to use with it.
Mini PCs haven't pushed on as much as you'd have hoped. They are a replacement for office desktops but we all want them to replace gaming machines, which they can't do because of the IGPU. Stric Point and Lunar Lake could help, but they are way too expensive for mini PC manufacturers - you can buy an HP laptop for the same price as a Minisforum AI PC.
What we need is a silent mini PC that becomes a universal desktop PC replacement for offices to lower the cost. The Mac is a really good buy for the price, and you can put up with not running the odd game for that.
Ryzen Ai Max+ is said to be 16c/32t and 40CU and a load of AI rubbish of top. they say due to power it will be in high end laptops, but AMD is said to now being focused on small household and office workstation with small foot print like a mini PC market. Because with that gaming and Ai power it and a TDP or 120w it would be wasted in a hand held, table or laptop. Laptop people love fine and cool and with 40CU's it not going to be cool or hold a low temps. So it will end up hopefully being a one stop OEM mini PC's but with workstation power which is what most of use mini pc fans love low power need for a computer and small form factor that fits the room. Not a child RGB sofa sized, water-cooled, RTX 5090, 4000w PSU that melt and enough fans to lift a Boeing 747. just to play fortshite at 4K ultra, path+,RAY+ and all that rubbish. most people just won't small, power bill their don't have to sell a kidney for, and fits in with the décor.
@@DJgregBrown40CU will be useless without actually video ram/on die memory.
It's just gonna be bottlenecked
Most people aren't gamers. This is the problem with the internet, people assume everyone wastes time on gaming. I have a custom build and I don't game on it too.
"Sensibly located power switch" ---Facts by Iceberg
Not at all
I wouldnt replace my main pc with a mac, but my m1 air is my main laptop now. apple silicon is seriously impressive, amd and intel need to catch up for portable devices for sure
Ig Tea
Lunar lake mini is what I want. Soon!
Nah, sodimms or bust.
@@Fuscao_Preto Unified memory is faster due to bein on the chip
Lunarlake doesn’t make sense for it. Efficiency is a lot less important for this form factor and lunarlake is more expensive to produce than its competitors
😂
wait, you are being serious?
🤣🤣🤣
@@Marauder-q2v it’s hardly as if AMD aren’t charging through the nose for the HX370. Manufacturers seem to think Lunar lake does make sense too, as they are making them. The graphics performance is reasonable, it’s going to make perfect sense for some.
The main issue with the apple thing here is that the price is a lie, in a subtle way, 16gb of ram is not enough neither is the 256gb ssd, but you can expand this via usbC, the ram, ram is there forever and non expandable. Once you start running out, you are forever running out. If you want 32gb there goes 1000+ quid.
256gb is criminal, and the number of people who just parrot the typical external drive line is strange. I don’t buy a mini pc to hang external storage off it. The base M4 is decent, but it’s a compromised setup. Adding any upgrades at all makes it a hard sell.
Don't worry. Ballooning ai models will force apple to increase base model ram otherwise they'll get left behind against windows machines that run ai on the cloud. Apple has enough profit selling services to raise the amount of ram, apple execs just need a good reason to increase ram because they full well know professionals don't buy their low ram computers.
I think snazzy labs put it best: it is the best pc deal ever, until you run out of storage, which is very, very quick nowadays. And the price doubling for the next tier in storage is madness and completely ruins the value of the product.
16 Gigs of ram are totally fine on most Macs. The OS optimizes well.
@ 8gb is absolutely fine for most macs! Artificial inflation is causing them to bleed money and upgrade Ram just so they can keep up with other tech companies scamming people to upgrade pc's for a feature no one uses!!!!
The Mac Mini is not a $600 USD machine, it is a $1,200 USD machine. Unless you upgrade your RAM and SSD the base model is almost useless if you want to do some serious work. Hell, even for regular use it would become very hard after a while. And the Mac Mini cannot be upgraded, you are stuck with whatever configuration you selected.
RAM isn't such a big deal but storage in base model is joke.
@gorjy9610 Not really, depends on what you are using it for since the ram is shared between the CPU and GPU
Yeah it's too bad external USB-C/Thunderbolt drives don't exist
just upgrade the RAM as needed and use external drives lol
Ram is okay for such machine. For storage you have thunderbolt and can use fast external storage.
the bad thing about these mac minis is that they charge extra for storage and RAM, but as far as the capabilities of the m4 chip are concerned it is quite a bit above the average chinese mini pc. if someone wants the mac ecosystem, needs to work to develop IOS and/or edit video or something like that it works quite well, and in gaming from what i see the m4 performs much more than the base integrated motherboards of many of these mini pc's. so for $600 the base model of the mac mini is the best currently as far as mini pc's are concerned, although the pro seems like a rip off to me, you can build something more competent even though it consumes more.
If you want 32 gb of ram and 1tb of storage you need to pay apple 1200$ for the mac mini
You can just buy external storage
@raikaru0 yeah, but is that as fast?
@@bosstwind7010even if it was, that's absolutely beside the point... Also, I'm quite sure, that you can't buy external RAM...
@@bosstwind7010 Yes? You will not notice the difference at all.
The big issue is ram. For a desktop unit, having additional storage plugged in is pretty much a non issue. You're not going to saturate a USB 4 connection with a few drives
Yes they need to get an ARM SoC instead of old and power hungry X86
Market disruption to upsell for profit to return shareholder value is Apple's style. It happened with the iPhone and now again with this model change to the Mac Mini. Being miserly with storage is a bit scammy but really getting a little box that just does computing has never been easier these days.
AI isn’t for the consumer, it’s for the global giants. You are simply training it for them.
Now turn this into a Hackintosh.
You can't, it would have no graphics acceleration
Bought the Mac mini base model and I am very impressed with the performance. I tested some CAD software (Fusion 360) and it's incredibly what this little box can do.
Storage wise it's a typical apple insult
M4 lineup performs like poo in native BG3. =/ An R5 5500 + RX 6600 budget system beats Mac Mini *M4 Pro.* So those synthetic benchmark results do not translate well to gaming. You need the M4 Max to approach higher mid-range gaming PCs. But the efficiency is great. But so is the price.
Higher Midrange would mean something like a 7900GRE/XT, 4070 ti/ ti Super and a Intel i5 14600k or Ryzen 7 7700x. The M4 Max is never reaching that performance outside of synthetic benchmarks and workloads made specifically with the M4 Chip in mind.
@@pietruszek1998 Yes, in BG3 M4 Max reaches fps of those systems. Maybe it is a bad benchmark for gaming performance per se because BG3 is mostly CPU bound.
@@MEMETIZER And it's much easier to optimize something that has like 3 iterations every year. On the PC side of things there are like near endless possible combinations that not always work well together.
11:30 hard to take ETA Prime's numbers seriously sometimes when he uses FSR Ultra Performance and Frame Gen in single player titles like Horizon Forbidden West and God of War Ragnarok on APUs in mini PCs and handhelds like the Steam Deck. Sure you're reading near 60 at 720p low preset but what about the blur from FSR and input delay with frame gen? Also tests in quiet areas which aren't representative of rest of the game.
I love the loud music I dance to it
My BIG issue with the AMD chips is i can't work out the features and how effective the chip is from thier name. Who the hell thought needing a decoder wheel was a good idea i will hopefully never know...
Just a heads up, CyberPunk is not a good game to choose for performance comparisons. CrossOver translation is missing something that seemingly cuts off performance increases when you step up the CPU and GPU hardware. The M2 Ultra and the M4 Max perform about the same as the M4 base and M1 Pro despite the Ultra and Max having several times the CPU and GPU cores and having much more video RAM available. So we really can't tell what the actual performance of the base M4 is in that game, as it is software/compatibility locked before reaching peak.
Also anyone considering buying third party SSD upgrades to their mini PC, can also do it on Mac to save money, as the Mac Mini has Thunderbolt ports. That should make the price to performance comparisons a little more fair.
Fun fact: 7840HS DOES have an NPU ... As for the M4, less flexible software selection and the price beyond the base model is not for everyone. I mean if we are talking about 1k+ prices you can as well test against the HX370 ...
As well as having significantly more powerful GPUs, compatibility wise anything that runs on the Steam Deck runs through Crossover as they use the same tech. So connecting to an eGPU isn’t a concern
It needs to add a lot more ram to 200g for example to run llm.
The "AI" we actually want -- like running ChatGPT -- is not achievable with the AI feature of current consumer CPU's. All they can do is generating some stupid small images or removing backgrounds of a photo, etc, which we can do online for free. It's just a gimmick, like the 3D screen phone.
Thanks for revealing this Mini PC existed for me! I just ordered one to temporarily replace my desktop with its failing 13th gen i9. This is going to make one epic Linux Mini PC
If Apple,a company who introduced NPU since 2017 have to double their base RAM for every of their AI-ready device. It should tell you that RAM is far more important than these NPU.
I've been thing this too. I know the work AMD has done with Microsoft and Sony are probably reserved for their consoles, but we know it's possible to cram that much performance into one chip, so nothing would've prevented them from making a KILLER apu chip for mini pc's (Of course within the power constraints).
Seen people laugh at mini PC "because mac m4 mini is cheap" disregarding that we're going to be gaming in linux, upgrading the ram, throwing a 4 TB NVME in and keeping the option of using Oculink. If I was an office rat in productivity sure, give me a beefy mini and a pre-paid Adobe package!
a video about a specific memory stick would be more interesting
what i want to see on these minipcs that are replacing pcs is a upgradeable gpu, not via usb 4 or oculink
nvidia had that connector for laptop gpus, mxm iirc, this is where it should be used
A mini pc with an eGPU doesn’t make much sense to me. Why get a tiny pc only to immediately make it much bulkier (and uglier imo) adding a massive GPU, power supply, converter board and cabling to it, with the added bonus of several limitations. In that sense mini pcs like the HX99 seem like a better pick.
One more well-thought-out, well-executed release 👏. I am talking about the video not the mini.
There's hardly anything I detest more than all the AI marketing that has happened for the past year or so. These companies think they can stick those two letters into anything and ask premium for the service. Disgusting attempt at scamming people.
I would love to see you cover crossover and native game performance on Mac! I think you’d be surprised by the results
I got a SER7 with a 7840HS when only the SER8 with NPU was available. AI is the new thing to goose stock prices and PR.
The 8745 is not much more performance than the 7840HS. The SER7 is good for games that are a few years old and can play current AAA games at 1080p just fine.
I was able to install another NvME drive. Four screws on the bottom of the SER7. Take off the lid and one screw to install the drive.
The HX 370 pricing is disgusting =.= Last Gen 8840U / 8840HS laptops are decently priced at least.
Apple did a good job with pricing but if you want to upgrade the ram or ssd, the price almost doubles.
For students and office work should be fine. I don't want to defend Apple but if they have done anything well is optimize the OS to work nicely enough with only 8GB of memory, unlike windows 11 that *needs* 16GB to work smoothly.
About the storage, i think you can use an external SSD over USB C 3.2 or thunderbolt, depending the model of mac.
But yeah, they clearly milk their customers with memory and storage, but we are talking about Mac users, the probably still think that 8GB of Ram is enough like in their iPhones.
I got a SER7 with a 7840HS when only the SER8 with NPU was available. AI is the new thing to goose stock prices and PR.
The 8745 is not much more performance than the 7840HS. The SER7 is good for games that are a few years old and can play current AAA games at 1080p just fine.
apple products is not a option, that is what we need to teach people, tech literacy is important.
I wish Razer Linda was available for sale, and Winlator was a mature, stable platform for GOG classics.
Oculink ports shouod be included in all mini PCs. N100 with a 6500, 3060, or A580 would be fine for all esports and 1080 AAA gaming.
Removing the AI crap is a big win. Its getting tiresome having to disable all varieties of AI nonsense and trackers/ads on every device I own.
AI provides no benefit to the user greater than its ability to better exploit the user for large companies.
Eh, neural networks can be useful at getting "good enough" results with less power, there have been npus in iphones for a long while now, it just wasnt a feature they advertised.
the npu isnt the issue, its the software that people decide to write for it.
Hmm tough choice.... NOT. Of course people would get the less expensive option that doesn't have the useless AI "feature".
Unfortunately 890M graphics are only available with Ryzen AI CPUs so far :(
The blinks biggest problem is it runs windows. If it had at the purchase form your ability to pick any other operating system. It might actually be useful.
Most people don’t want to self install os’s.
Given that other OSs on X86 would be Linux, I'm pretty sure most Linux users would be quite happy to install their own OS, as they'll have done it on literally every other system they've used and know it's a doddle.
AD disguised as content.
welcome to youtube where opportunities are not wasted
Did you watch the video?
Get a motherboard with coaxial power of ali express and throw in a decent cpu with integrated graphics.
Mini PCs have been a terrible and pointless niche for a long time. Most people have the room for a legit Tiny PC, if not a slim MicroATX one. For around $600 I was able to put a 4060 Low profile and a 12500t system in around 2 Liters. Most people want to put these near a TV, and most TVs have more than enough room near them to hide a system.
My TV has had a string of Lenovo 8th/9th gen Tiny systems, which by and large offer many benefits: higher performance, reduced cost, more parts availability, and even GPU support (P600,P620,RX6400, which yes, an RX6400 is faster than any iGPU to this day. The Dell RX6500 is even around $120).
Also on offer is socketed CPUs with optional 65w copper heatsinks.
Whats the point of this video if you are not directly comparing 2 devices in performance?
All Mini PCs need for zero bottleneck eGPU support is Thunderbolt 5. An i9-14900HX could hold up an RTX 4090 just fine if it wasn't for 2016 Thunderbolt 3 speeds, since TB4 didn't actually make TB faster. Come on, we are so close!!!
Oculink already offers this speed since many years and is way cheaper. There are some benefits for using Thunderbolt, but in terms of eGPU I dont think it is worth waiting for.
I don't think a mac mini PC is appealing to anyone who would want a windows mini PC for the simple fact of game support. Besides, you need to spend 1000 euros just to get adequate ram for splitting between the CPU/GPU, and only half a terabyte of storage. Not at all compelling.
I waiting on the Ryzen AI max+ apu's, as it has massive 32 cores and 40CU of gpu. But it will have a 120w TDP which mean it might lead to price mini's and loud coolers. That is the main issue on these boxes noise. I have a N100 most of the time it silent but if I push it the fan is so loud in it little box. LDDR4 soldered can ran faster aiding the Igpu. Mac have the right Idea that not many people up grade so they remove the option and can things down and get faster results at lower power, while beating PC, PC's are lots of part put together issue is to go from CPU toi Ram you have the signal travelling from one PCB to another. It the Ai Max+ GPU hold up and you can board with both the LDDR5/6 and GDDR would make a great PC mini but the cost would be criminal.
if you want a cheap laptop then the M1 is still very good at very low price used (if you don't need to be on windows). I am still waiting for some new CPUs/APUs so I can remove my tower PC (currently mostly using the steam deck as my replacement)
Tell that to ETA Prime
I like mini pcs to run servers
The tensor cores, think about the tensor cores
lmao, forget them, no one needs theor rays traced to have fun
I would still choose x86 over ARM even if it uses twice the power and still end up being 20% slower in single thread. Unfortunately x86 isn't even able to do this. Hell they are even lagging behind in GPU department. It's different story with AI and content creation, which could really benefit from APU's unified memory, is leaded by CUDA and optix, nvenc. Making such APU would only hurt nvidia professional GPUs which comes with large vram capacity. So for that purpose Mac are still good PCs.
these mini pcs are still way too expensive for the amount of performance they have. People shouldn't be excited about games running at 640p/720p upscaled to 1080p at medium (ish) settings on modern titles. Junk GPUs from years ago were able to do this. The m4 has shown the world just how overpriced x86 cpus has gotten considering I'm sure the m4 Mac mini is cheap to produce and will go on sale at some point. Apple likes fat profit margins on all their devices.
I've seen some of these mini pcs cost as much or more than building a real pc with a decent gpu, which is ludicrous. I'm sure the Chinese mini pc manufacturers are gouging on them as well. No amount of power savings can justify these machines. By now we should have apus with at least 3060 level gpu performance. not 1650 level....a dumpster fire gpu from 5 years ago.
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT! Don't AMD APUs have hardware encoders for h.265&264????
DaVinci doesn’t use the dedicated hardware encoders, it uses OpenCL or CUDA and requires 4 GB of dedicated VRAM. By default most APU based machines only reserve 1 or 2 GB without changing a BIOS setting to reserve more VRAM. On a 32 GB system used for gaming or light video editing and graphics work I recommend setting it to 8 GB to facilitate higher texture settings in games and smoother operating in graphics programs.
@@DigitalMoonlight I didn't know AMD APUs don't support OpenCL. Shame DeVanci doesn't use hardware encoders...I mean...why not? Thanks for your reply.
@@TrusteftTech They support OpenCL, just the default VRAM reservation is too low for DaVinci to use it. You need to raise the VRAM reservation to 4GB at a minimum to use OpenCL. Hardware encoders aren’t used very often because they can only encode video and can’t do any of the post-processing effects that are used frequently when editing video. Hardware encoders are moreso for capturing or transcoding video rather than editing.
@@DigitalMoonlight then what is he talking about?
The issue with apple machines is that they can not run all applicatgions that an x86 windows/linux machine can. Apple is can not take place on a desk for that reason. Good luck on using an arm machine for mechanical design work as it just cant run the "industry standard" software used by the industry.
mac just obsoleted all other mini pcs ..
Mac mini might be hoovering a bunch of people into the mac world for the first time. They got me too, go on. Leave me here.
Well hang on, you need to pay way more to equip the mac with an acceptable amount of ram and storage for going into 2025. With 24GB of ram and 1TB of storage it's $1200.
Otherwise you're just planned obsolescenced.
At $1200 you can build something with more performance than AMDs shitty APUs
AI is useless. I don't like the taste of adhesive on my pizza, neither do i want to generate nonsense images of wobbly deformed things and people. Chat bots are a nuisance. I'm upset that the Bank i have my account is using AI as customer support. It's as useful in answering specific questions as a wet match in the dark. And has the comprehension and memory of an Alzheimer's patient.
//typo
Old McDonald had a hustle AI, AI, oy vey
Fake standards for higher price points
This probably means consoles are finally dead XD Yay.
I really hope super efficiency takes off, especially sub 10W in X86
no u
Crazy 😧
Omg... Another mini PC video.
😢
I don't care about AI, it's just a new way for them to spy on me, train their models, and offer me a mediocre version of Siri or Alexa.
Professionals use 1/4" audio connectors; some have a whammy bar. Mini PCs need to overdrive stacks of Marshall amps and run the light show.
Had a lot of thoughts while watching the video.
No I don't care about AI and having NPUs to run them on my computers.
I am very much Yes to expandability even if its just storage, ram (and maybe wifi since its also in M.2 form) because changing those can have a significant difference in user experience.
Yeah the ARM based Macs have impressive performance, but their expensive ass upgrades like the storage is stupid.
The power efficiency of ARM is amazing, but the lack of software that can take advantage of all that power reminds me of DankPods video of him complaining about the M4 iPad Pro having amazing performance hampered by the software or lack thereof.
Makes me wonder if the x86_64 architecture itself being CISC (Complex Instruction Set Architecture) based is causing a significant hurdle in lowering power efficiency since internally they convert down to RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Architecture) instructions. And no Intel doing 1 or 1.1GHz base clocks on their mobile chips (to make their TDP look lower by their definition of basing it on base frequency) still doesn't even make them close to ARM efficiency.
The hardware acceleration aspect with your video editing example is interesting, because for me AV1 has no use right now and I would rather have H.264 & H.265 acceleration for the media files I deal with.
Been watching some retro PC stuff and its interesting to think that there were dedicated MPEG decode cards and the like while iGPUs and dedicated GPUs just shrug those off now since they have the hardware for those.
Edit: Formatting
"Lack of Software" on ARM isn't exactly the correct way to say it but the available software on ARM (may it be Windows, Linux, or Mac) is still more limited than their x86_64 counterparts.
A binary translation layer like Rosetta 2 on Mac or Box86/Box64 on Linux bridges that but there's some performance penalty (can vary from little to being unusable, assuming it works because I've read some posts on people complaining there's apps that don't work) compared to running stuff that was compiled for ARM.
But there are mini pcs which outperform the m4, atleast the base model. Its called using a ryzen 9 instead of 7
ARM can't multitask to save its literal goddamn life.
Soldered memory.
non-upgradeable storage, to the normal end user. Even _if_ you are capable of micro-soldering to improve storage, you need _another mac entirely_ to get the stupid thing bootable again.
Apple's recirculatory cooling system is geforce fx 5800 levels of bad.
Much as I will give Tim Cook shit for his disgustingly malicious behavior, it does signpost that many of these mini pc's are overpriced and by a huge margin.
.
I think PCs have to change.
Imagine if the Ryzen 9000-series all had the AI Silicon (NPU) on them as well, the reviews would've been "It performs like the 7000-series, BUT it has AI silicon(NPU) on there, which is useless now, it may be to CPUs what Raytracing was to GPUs when nVidia introduced the RTX-2000-Series".
I'd disagree, I got a minisforum ms-a1 with a r7 7700, 1 TB ssd, 16 gb of 5200Mhz CL38 ram for $570 and it is a beast. Could have gotten a 8700G for just 15 dollars more, but I ordered the DEG1 and I'm planning to reuse my old 3060 on it. Genuinely considered the mac mini for like a week before making the plunge on black friday, got too many great deals to ignore and it has been awesome.
I love mini PC's but tbh I see nothing to make upgrade my ROG ally yet its a killer mini pc
So You Want to Buy
Mac Mini 600$??
16GB Ram
250GB Storage???
600$$$
And This is Good To You???
RUclipsrs Are Stupid Today
Even 999$ Mini Mac Is Unusable
You Need 1 - 2 TB Storage For Workstation
That 400$ Mini PC
24GB Ram
1TB Storage
Is Enough For Workstation
And You Say Mini PC Need To Change What???
So You RUclipsrs are Ok For Small Storage Small Ram Apple 600% Even 999$$ Still Small Storage
Not Average Consumer Workstation
RUclipsrs Sure Are Rich To Buy This OverCharge Apple
I wish more minipcs had oculink connectors. This is a very huge advantage over Macs
This also needs to be mentioned... Death Stranding costs $40 in the Apple App Store. It's $20 on Steam, and was recently FREE in the Epic Games store.
i got it for free, and played it, got to a point where i couldnt get out of the ropm and abandoned it, is nice, but not for me
E
There are people like me who would happily pay extra to NOT have an Apple product - try upgrading that "Bargain" $599 Mac, then look at what the next higher spec model costs - it is a complete mystery to me why people are blind to this. An yes I have used MacOS on my work Macbook and it is a huge "meh" for me - gave me a new-found appreciation for Windows
The good news is that AMD will release Strix Halo in the next few months. 16 cores and ~4070 mobile gpu performance. Unfortunately, it won't be cheap...
Yeah we need more mini pcs with ARM processors!
And have horrible campatibility? pass.
@@Fuscao_Preto I mean snapdragon is doing their work with compatibility and they've been doing good, in few years it'll be like apple silicon
Its hysterical that Apple's board thinks any device with 256GB is worth $600 in late 2024. A $200 upcharge for 500GB? Anyone can buy a 2TB ssd for like $100 now if its going into a normal laptop, mini-pc oir desktop. Doing their best nvidia impression with VRAM i suppose. Weak. And macOS sucks on top of that and is getting super locked down to the point you can barely run anything on it that didnt come from apple's own store. Overpriced, overhyped, lame sandbox. Wall street is falling over themselves about AI but every normal person I know doesnt give a rat's ass. If I owned the stock I'd cash out about now.
Arm on pcs is lookin promising
just look at raspberry pi running win 11, very promising, for the proce, because qualcom asks like 400 dollars for those laptop socs