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38 Spl +P with 125gr Hornady XTP
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- Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2017
- Thank you, FortuneCookie45LC! Today we are trying out some 125gr Hornady XTP's with Hodgdon Longshot and Ramshot Silhouette.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with RUclips content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
Great video, what makes a grown man cry is driving 25 miles to range and realize you left ammo at house lol.
This is part of the fun of shooting, testing loads and lots of experimentation. Keep those videos coming.
I tend to mark the bottom of cases with different series of lines to denote what goes where. I.e. first string of 5 is left clean, second gets a “/“ in sharpie, third gets a “x”, fourth gets an X with circle and so on.
ROFL 20 min in I was laughing so hard when he explained the spilled ammo!! Great videos as always! Your videos are what all others should be measured against for content, camera work and ease of watching. Seriously the way you engage your audience is spot on! Keep em' coming!
Bringing back memories of handloading, thank you! That Ramshot Silhouette had a nice group, 6.7 very nice! Sometimes speed isn't needed. Great video
Good to see you back again at the bench! Congrats again on the elk! This video reminded me that I really need to get my .44 Mag Bisley Blackhawk back out to the range and to put some reloads together. Keep up the good work!
The point is your having fun. Wheel guns are great.
BTW, welcome back to civilization. Congrats on the elk. Props for sticking it out when you felt like quitting.
I use these in my antiques most of the time!A model of 1884 Nagant revolver (very rare and cool) that has a 6.75" barrel which works with the shortened .38spl cases when I loaded it with 7.0 grains of fine pistol powder that I have and it fired this same 125 grain XTP from it-I got about 390 meters per second on average! Almost 1300 fps.
The hollow points get some of the polishing media stuck in them from the final polish prior to packaging, it's nothing to worry about besides cosmetics. They are stuck there due to the carnauba wax they put in with it to keep the jackets from oxidizing during shipping and storage.
I’ve done that too, then I started marking the cases with a sharpie. Great video.
Mark the primers of different loads with different color sharpie.
That's what I do. I also mark the groove above the rim to denote the number of reloads a case has been through
I just write the # if grains on the wall of the case.
Yeah, magic markers work well. Silver primers (15)/light; black primers(15)/ second higher increment; red primers (15)/ load/w the third and highest powder charge. Thats what I use. It leaves 5 cases left over for sight in rounds with the preferred load.
New sub, been following your site for a while, though. I shoot and reload .38 and .357, and am relatively new at it, so I appreciate your tutorials and tests.
Longshot really shines with 180 and 200 grain 10mm. Cool video!
Good to know, I’ll try some, I have a G29, G20sf, and a 610 revolver…yes, I like 10mm.
aaaaah good to see you too!!! congrats on the ELK!!!!
Congrats on the Elk! Glad you're back, the reloading room was feeling a bit lonesome. I am gearing up for rifle season in Missouri, then a weekend hog extermination trip in Arkansas sometime in December. Going for an elk or two next year!
Good luck this season! Elk hunting was a pretty amazing experience.
Thanks for your excellent videos ... As a fairly new Reloader I especially appreciated the reduced load information in another of your videos as that type of information is difficult to find... My solution to keeping track of various loads is to mark the installed primers with various colors of magic marker ... Then I can later track the effects of various loads knowing the charge and bullet weight effects... Would have simplified your tray spill
I love your videos, so much of information, keep up the good work
Johnny . Welcome back , send me some elk jersey. I have the same gun . The action gets better and better the more you use it . You will love it. I use bulls eye for 38 plus p and 2400 for the 357 mag. Work up a load of each and you will see . There great .
Been there done that with the ammo case on a real nice load development. Had them on the front seat of my car driving to the range and a critter ran out in front of me. I braked hard and dumped my entire shooting equipment box with all my load developments onto the footwell. My ammo boxes had enough of an airspace above the ammo that they all came out and mixed. Total cluster.
I know this is an old thread, but I just worked up a +P load for a new Colt KC Target model I recently bought. I used 356 diameter, 124 grain Berry's flat nose plated bullets, and CFE pistol powder. I originally bought them for loading 9mm cartridges for my Taurus G3x. It refused to feed them. Velocity is good and the accuracy is acceptable for plinking and certainly adequate for self defense.
I have done the same thing. so now i use color sharpies to color the primers and note the color for the charge. It just takes a min or two more but can save your test if it happens again.
awesome very helpful, i had excellent groups with 125gr Hornady XTP under 8.2gr VV N340, 40.0mm COAL in 357 Magnum, muzzle flash is there but not excessive
Had that happen to me several times so when I test my loads now I put them in a little ziplock bags that I get from the craft store
Thanks for the details, I’m looking to work up an accuracy load not speed for my 686 competitor. In this market it will be hard to get silhouette.
CFE Pistol is dirty with my S&W in standard velocity using 140gr XTP. Same thing you noticed with Longshot. Unburnt powder, dirty cases, etc.
Don't beat yourself up. I dumped a ladder test box of 223 on my tail gate one time. Only thing that saved me was I color coated the back of the brass with a sharpie to check the brass for pressure signs. I love the gp100. I have a 4 inch stainless model.
I color code with sharpies sometimes but didn't on this occasion. Writing the charge weight on the side of the case is a good method as well. I wish I had done something!
@@JohnnysReloadingBench You can also sort them after spilling by weighing the whole round if the brass & bullets are consistent enough in weight.
I did the same exact thing, tipping the whole ammo case onto the ground 😡. Since then I started running different colored sharpie pens over each different loads in the case.
Ouch, tipping the ammo box. It’s kinda like dropping your bacon on the ground - you mourn for a few seconds, and you’re not quite sure what to expect when you pick it up, but you go for It anyway.
5 Second Rule from the Father's Guide to raising boys..
I've been reloading for about 30 years and I've never seen a Hornady bullet with a plugged hollowpoint. I haven't bought any lately though, I still have a good supply from 2010-2012.
I did exactly the same once spilling my ammo case and not knowing what was what! It sucks! I have started color coding my rounds with a sharpie!
Switching gears a little. I believe you're a good shot. I watch you shoot on those wobbly rests and table and just wonder how much more accurate you would be with a good rest and a concrete bench. Also use as high a power scope as possible on a cloudy day and watch your groups shrink. Took me a long time to figure this out.
Yes, and about the powder I used-I actually don't know what it is: I bought a large keg on a gun show and was never told what it was but it is much finer,faster and more energetic than any kind of pistol powder I came across!The closest thing to it was the stuff that they put in the more powerful nail gun blanks: the actual performance of these two turned out to be identical as well so seems like I use that stuff..
On 357, I have had to trim my cases before. VERY HOT LOAD. I miss the on camera spills :( I put all of my test loads in separate ziplock bag/ load. I may take 25 ziplock bags into my range, but the know what I'm doing. Cant really spill those unless you open every bag at the beginning.
I just got my 38/357 magnum dies in the mail today and some 158 grain SP Speer bullets I didn't get the chance to reload any yet but look forward to it tomorrow.
Nice touch on the use of a soundtrack. I mark the charges on the back of the primer with a very thin marker (pen). Believe me, you could write 3 numbers on the back of the primers.
Some people hate the music so I try to use it sparingly.
I have been using colored markers to code my loads......red or green or blue and write it down so I know which is which. You can use more than one color on each if you are testing a lot of loads too. I've been reloading now since 1972 too.
I really enjoy your revolver and lever action videos! You should give Alliant 2400 a try, it does not require magnum primers.
Yep, 11.5gr.
I bare similar scars. Opened up my range bag and found my ammo box open and upside down with my laddered reloads strewn about. It hurts. It really hurts. **sniffle**
Beautiful gun !
I saw your tragedy and wanted to give you a tip I had the same problem and am I recommendation is used sharpies and make a color chart for yourself and swipe each piece of brass with that particular color for each charge weight sharpies work great and they come off great in the wet tumbler
Always interesting and something to learn and very much appreciated. What is the brand and model of the gun rest you are using. Thanks
I'm loading the 110 XTP on top of 8.7 grains of Unique, book says that 9.7 is max load. For the 125 XTP 7.5gn , I'm using a 4in 357. I figure that the 110 and the 125 would make a great Personal Protection load and the 158 hard cast LSWC will be my Deer load on top of 7.5. of Unique. The Magtech 158 half jacket soft point is pretty high up there in the recoil department. My loads aren't that stiff, yet.
Mark your test loads of each type with different colored sharpies, just in case you spill the box! For those using Lee dies and who also use the Lee "Disk" Powder Measuring System: This disk unit works on top of the powder thru die, without the aluminum top funnel. In loading pistol cartridges, the accuracy of the disk measurement is very good in my experience. The disk holes may not give you precisely the amount you want, but you can stack two different sizes to get very close. Put the smaller hole on top of the larger and the flow is good. I have tried the Lee " "cone type" measure that is adjustable by a key, but had trouble with powder leakage and settings staying consistent.
4.5gr titegroup with 125gr in 38spl. Very accurate
TG works well for so many applications.
I shoot lead, hard cast 125gr. RNFP in my 38 & 357, for my S&W 642 3gr. of Red Dot gets me a little over 800fps for practice but for my Ruger GP100 that same bullet with 5gr. of CFE Pistol in 38 cases gets me a touch over 1150fps, 1040 in the 642. In 357 with 7.5gr. of CFE Pistol those cast 125's are clocking almost 1500fps. Very clean and consistent and at lower charges, 6gr. gets me right at 1300fps. & tack drivers. The 6gr. load is one of my favorites. Update March 2023: In 38 Special Titegroup for general use, +P loads I've found VV3N37 seems to be the sweet spot giving me 1100fps with 125 XTP's with very good accuracy.
Finely , Pistol loading! YEa.......
Glad you survived the wilderness trek.
I would love to see full house 357 magnum reloads with XTP and silhouette. Maybe even in a snubbie.
I have done that at the “big range”. I have to drive 1:30 to the big range. I had 200 different loads to test for several videos. The wind blew them off the bench. The were separated with load data written on paper. Every cartridge came out of the cases and the papers blew away. It Totally Sucked!!!
Flipping the ammo box with different loads in it is like what Forest Gump's Mom always said "It's a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get".. I have done that before. I like the pistol thing,, and not because I'm mainly a pistol guy, pistol is more of a challenge and I feel that it is good practice to work out with one in a serious mindset. the shorter sight radius is less forgiving and builds alignment habits that make you better with the irons in rifle. you may want to take a look at this. Gehmann Iris - Disc For Regular Glasses
My first pistol reloading experience was with 125 XTP’s. Carefully weighed out my powder loads on my Lee Safety Scale, read the tips about lowering charges by 10%, and got nothing but squibs. I don’t think I was crimping enough with such a low charge.
@ Johnny's Reloading Bench check the inside of the cylinder for fouling on the inside there may be a lip in there about the length of a 357shell case length in , and try blue dot powder as listed in Speer manual 11 , 8.2gr start 8.5+p Max does not need mag primers. If you need anything in the way of outdated load manual's let me know I have # 11 # 13 #14 #15 now
I haven't found much in the way of available hollow point bullets that do expand at 38 special velocities.
Johnny, The 140XTP's are my go to for .38 & .357. I load the .38 in standard pressure using Blue Dot, 7.7grns. My snubby loves them. I load my target loads with bullseye and mag primers, super fast burn rate.
You checked the expansion on those? I wasn't too impressed with the expansion on mine with Blue Dot from a snubbie.
Yes, I have. The XTP's no matter what caliber have limited expansion and are better suited as a hunting bullet than for self defense.
Try bullseye or unique for a faster burn, mag primers will increase that even more. The 140's out of my snub are plenty snappy.
Oh I know they don't expand like others. But mine did not even expand enough to even exceed the caliber diameter at all. And few looked like they barely attempted to open. The 158's were even worse.
You most likely need more velocity then. In my .357, 6.5" Blackhawk I'm running 1310fps and they open up very well. Great load for deer.
I'm talking about from a snubbie. I've gotten better results just from my 4"
If you have some Herco laying around, you might give that a try. I think it will give you some good results in the range you`re after.
Try Hodgdon Titegroup. I have had good grouping through both my Ruger SP-101 and GP-100. I do not have a chrono so I have no info on the speeds. I have use the powder in both 357 mag and 38 spl +P
New thing called a sharpie. I mark my brass with different colors.
When I test new loads, l always mark the case with a permanent magic marker. I then have a piece of paper with the codes for the different powder charges. It is the best way for me because I’m a little bit clumsy.
Interesting. The video is 4 years old at this point. I have been buying Hornady XTP Bullets for the last 2.5 years now and I have never had a Hornady XTP or HAP bullet with junk inside the hollow point. They must have improved their quality control.
Here in northern AZ. I filled my Elk tag a week after season began. I very nice cow elk to fill my freezer too......yummmmm.
I'm wondering about the flaring on nickel brass. Is it hard on the plating and is it better to use unplated brass instead?
I think shooting +p in 44 magnum charges can go pretty high. Like the skeeter load in 44 special and 250gr bulltet, 7.5 gr unique
I'm a revolver guy. Not a Sooper Tacticool guy. Have no need for a high capacity Simi auto pistol. A good Ol' 38 Special revolver does everything I need a handgun to do. At the end of the day a handgun is a compromise, and I'm not spending tons of money on a big bulky high speed pistol that will seldom ever get carried when that money is much better spent on a defensive shotgun and rifle. As a backup to a real gun the revolver still holds its own. Anyway, what do I know? My next purchase will be a Ruger LCRX 3in 38 Special. It can take stout loads. It will make a nice alternative to my Charter Arms snubby for outside the waist band carry while taking the same HKS speed loaders that I already have a dozen of. Thanks for the info. Edit: Those little "boogers" clogging the hollow point, I think it's possibly tumbling media? I bought a couple hundred rounds of Winchester 110gr Silvertip just before all this pandemic bullshit started and about half of them had that same stuff clogging the hollow point. Took me half an hour to clean them out. Only had a toothpick handy, and the stuff didn't wanna come out.
I know its been a while since you put this video out. Two things: when doing trials, I always sharpie all of my cases with a number. Also, longshot is way too slow of a powder for this particular application. But I'm sure you figured that one out.
"spilling my ammo!!!!!" AAARRRRUUUGGGGG!!!!!!!!
Try the CFE pistol, I am working up +P 38 Special loads, currently at 5.5 grains. 2400 with the magnum primer is great for the 357 Magnum.
Just loaded up some 38spl+P with 125gr.xtp for my GP100, used 4.8grs of Tite group and win. SP primers seat bullets at1.447-1.450" . This my go to receipt seem to shoot better than the shooter. Don't have a crony, would like some feed back if possible.
Nice video!
As I shoot almost exclusively short barrel, 125 XTPs are not reliably going to open at the velocities I get. I shoot the 110s or soft lead hollow points for that reason. :)
6 grain unique ( I just use letter Q)I've bee using this for forty years and no problems. Any modern gun should run these for years with no problem.
The old sierra black book (1971) (oops ,my age is showing) went up to 7 grains of Unique used in a K38.(1150 fps) That was too energetic for me
...I find that the seating stem makes little difference when seating pistol bullets fir my use - mostly LSWC and plated truncated cone bullets
aah back when you could get reloading supplies. now all reloading supplies are sold out due to panic buying.
Titegroup works well..standard load for me with hornady 125g is 4.5 and +p would be 5.0g
Great video thanks
How does a minimum load 357 compared to a +p .38 perform with recoil in a revolver?
I did the same thing, but with power pistol, I found they did not expand well at 38 special velocities. So the rest got loaded in 357 magnum cases over 2400
In this video, you are so polite and charming.
Seriously.
Goes to the range with charts, targets, carefully sorted ammo.
Inadvertently spills ammo box.
Tears down the targets, scraps the project, and plinks at rocks and cans with remaining ammo.
have you tried the rimrock 158 gr hp w/gas check? it's what buffalo bore uses in it's round- i've been loading them and getting good groups..(with unique) in .357 magnum
my problem with nickel plated brass is the plating flakes off after a few firings and you have the carbide dies but when I was doing this carbide was way expensive .. so I didn't have the luxury of carbide and flakes of nickel tears the hell out of steel dies .. so I avoided nickel plated brass like the plague ... I have a hard time lookin at it still ...!
Thanks, great video. I'm new to reloading, I own a SW 64-8 .38 special +P. I'm interested in developing a magnum load (.38 magnum ), that could be used for hunting for example deer or black bear. Also the cartridge could be use in a single shot rifle.
Just go with 357 mag. 180 gr bullets flying at ~1.500 fps is no joke
I thought you were crying about the one flyer, It would have driven me crazy my gun was shooting low and left, I would have had to adjust my sights after the first round.
Do you think that 110 grain XTPs in a snub nose 38 special+p would expand well? I never see 110 grain xtp loads from factory ammo for some reason.
I have what may be a dumb question, but could you have taken the last 10 rounds to the bench and weighed them on that really cool scale or are the weights just too close?
Maybe it would be wise to take your scale out with you just in case. And what happened to the last 5 rounds of the Longshot?
Maybe long shot needs a longer barrel for complete burn?
I don’t see Hornady data for ether powder. Sierra, for their 125gr JHP goes all the way up to 10.2gr for silhouette.
Use different color magic marker on primer to tell what load is green low, yellow medium , red maximum
I use a different color Sharpie on the primer to mark them.
Always yell 'Mulligan' if you toss your ladder loads and keep shooting...
A note on the Hodgdon Chart.
- They are sorted by Powder Burn Rate which relates to listing them by velocity.
- They go from Slow to Fast as you go down the list.
- They use a long barrel for testing, 7.7" so the unburnt powder issue is not observed.
- Their velocities need to be adjusted for your shorter barrel length.
- If your are loading 38+P into a 2,3, or 4" gun you will not get the powder velocities to relate in the same order as their longer barrel did.
- Barrel length and burn rate have a relationship. Your 4.2" barrel length would probably like the bottom half of the powders listed (faster) more than the top half.
- Always add just a small pinch of espresso to the case to wake up your gun during the warm up rounds...
The Western Powders Chart I find has more information than the Hodgdon Chart because of the way it is presented:
Hodgdon:
www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/burn-rate-color.pdf
Western:
www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf
The LEE Manual reloading data is handy as they show you in the loading data how much a powder will fill a case compared to different one for the same bullet. So you can look at how a powder will fill the case compared to another. Sometimes a case that is 'fuller' burns better and the gun shoots better.
If your revolver needs somebody to get out and shoot it more... I am sure you can find a volunteer !
As always, your mileage will vary and objects in mirror are closer than they appear so always consult a professional...
Johnny, what’s the heaviest bullet for the .38 spl that you can find on the load manuals? Can you load it?
You ever use any small magnum primers on the +P rounds??
I always use a sharpie to color the base so I can tell which is which. Color code.
Adjust your rear elevation site to raise it up a little.
I color code my primers with felt markers.
Thanks for the very informative videos! One question I would like to pose is can 38 spl 125 gr XTP at
That would be considered a 357 short.
When I handle my ladder test loads, in the ammo box, I’m as careful, as De-Cocking my 1911, with a round in the chamber. It’s my greatest fear.
Tighter crimp= better burn? Works for me. YMMV LIL Gun for .357 manly stuff.
Johnny, Nothing wrong with those groups!. But at the end your questioning yourself on the powders...Why in the heck didn't you look in your Hornady book!!!..I use HS-6 and Universal. I Would love to try some Power Pistol in the future..
Just stuff the case full of vv n110. Ultra accurate, best .38 +p+ load ever. Use in .357 mag guns only.
I would like to see what you come up with using Unique
Unique and Bullseye are my favorite powders for the 38 special. I tried a few other powders like H110, Bluedot, IMR 2400 from the Speer Load book #11, an old book. Always came back to Unique and Bulleye.
I'm currently at the part were you had to clean the xtp's ends out and I haven't noticed anything in mine I've reloaded some 9mm xtps for my G19 from reading the comments an awful spill is about to occur but its happened to me bet re also I had a bunch of 308s I loaded for my grandpas t3x he won and as I sat them on the bench I sat them on an empty case and they tipped over and went everywhere but I've got the load for it now after redoing all them.
It happens to everybody eventually! lol It's not my first time. A few sharpie marks would have saved me a lot of frustration!
Johnny's Reloading Bench I originally started out writing the load with on the shell with sharpie then decided that was pointless but oh well I learned my lesson but I'm sure it'll happen again.
The 38 Special was originally a black powder round. With smokeless, there is too much powder capacity and it is difficult to get a good burn with some powders. 357 Mag suffers the same problem as they just added brass length to prevent firing in the weaker guns designed for 38 Special. Now, I don't have to try Longshot ! I have heard a lot of good things about Longshot, so it probably works fine in other shorter cartridges. Unique powder seems to work fine with excess volume. On the rifle side, 5744 works well with excess volume, whether from black powder design or for reduced loads, it is safe. Looks like Silhouette is another good option for rimmed revolver rounds. If the cartridge has a rim, it was likely designed for black powder.
For premium bullets you should have to pick buggers!
*Johnny, I do not prefer LEE dies. RCBS or Hornady Carbide are working well, for me. LEE tend to NOT hold adjustment, as well as the others. Somehow, I think the rubber O-rings in LEE dies are allowing movement of the LEE dies. So. Lee might be constantly self adjusting , even when I do not want them to. Seating DEEPER or to shorter length can drive up the pressures.... So, you might want to avoid that. 187 grain Cast Lead 38 special is a very interesting and LONG load that will probably only fit in full 357 Length chambers.*
I always make up a dummy round for each different bullet I use in a specific caliber...that way I don't waste power...I can sacrifice a case and a bullet to the gods of seating...