You're analysis is definitely spot on when it comes to EV charging. My retired electrical engineer friend came up with the best analogy of a 30 U.S. gallon petrol tank filling up at a pump that dispenses at a rate of 30 gallons per minute. When the tank is near empty, it can take on the full rate. As it gets 3/4 full, you'll need to back down dispensing rate or you'll have liquid fossilized dinosaurs gushing out of the filler neck in no time quick. Electrons spewing out of the charge port of your car is something I really don't want to experience let alone petrol. In my experience on long road trips, I find bladder anxiety more than finding a charger and 2 hours on average is the max that I can be on the road anyway. 20 minute charge sessions on a 250 kW max stations gives me plenty of time to hit the washroom, refuel my stomach, top off my coffee mug, and stretch out my legs. There might be a 1 hour session in between because I just want to get in a good relaxing lunch or dinner break. One minor improvement would be if the car can display some information like the charger is able to dispense 250 kW for example, but the car is only requesting 150 kW. At least you're in the know of what is happening during the charging session and not having to guess if the car is requesting that charge rate from the charger or the charger has a hard output limit. I digress...
Spot on good review. 2 hour stops are common as you get older. Not sure of other apps and displays but Tesla show this kW speed and time remaining on both the display and the app, there’s probably an app out there for other cars
A HUGE revelation for me was entering a destination in my Telsa Model3 standard range route planner and letting it tell me where and when to charge and by how much. On a trip from Southern England to Scotland, this saves me hours over trying to guess for myself. It also balances out busy chargers with less busy ones, so may re-route me, but with overall faster journey times. It's an absolutely incredible algorithm, and makes it so much easier on long journeys. The added bonus is, I will likely stop at places I wouldn't have otherwise, making for a fun experience
Hi Graham, massive advantage and it's only a relatively recent over the air upgrade that included Ionity, Gridserve and others. People criticise Tesla for being dear, but they are leagues ahead of all other EVs available today. Plus superchargers average about 40p per kWh, Dave
@@davetakesiton Hi Dave interesting video but perhaps a bit of a stretch to say Tesla's are leagues ahead of all other EV's available today? I would say my electric BMW is ahead of a Tesla in every way except for the charging network. Although where I live, even the Tesla chargers frequently have a queue at peak times.
I recently returned from a round trip of 339 miles of which that included just 11 mins charge. My final leg was from Oxford to East Midlands and all the planning said i'd need a 6 minute stop which I wasn't fussed about but when I came to leave, the route was different, possibly due to traffic and a more distant charger chosen. I was only doing about 65mph on motorways, chilling out and watched the range improve from the initial requirement to charge, then into single digit positive figures and then about 40 miles from home, I noticed my route no longer included the charge stop! Estimate was now 12% upon arrival at home. About a mile from home, it dropped to 11% but that was plenty of course. Very impressed with the car and the way that all worked out. This is MY LR and i'm getting just smidge over 4m/kWh at the moment.
@@djtaylorutube Trust the chargers and route planners, Tesla does an amazing job. I did once worry when, in the East Midlands, I entered my home address and it said no stops needed, arrive with 4 miles remaining. I watched it like an eagle, but finally got back, even with a small traffic detour, with 9 miles left, Dave
@@davetakesiton Yep, it's really confidence building and I monitored my options all along but when you see the improvement building and watch the trip projection, it's pretty easy to feel relaxed. Really looking forward to our trip to Switzerland next week and I can't say that i'd feel anywhere near as excited in one of our ICE cars.
It's also good for safety and driver attention to have regular stops - in practice about every 2 hours, which makes 20 minute charges even more sensible. Given the price of most public chargers, I do also try to only charge enough to get to my destination (with a bit of a contingency on top). Only downside is that you can't guarantee availability of chargers - especially when others are hogging the chargers to go to 100%. 🙂 At least the various charge map apps can give you some idea of whether a particular charger is available. I've now made several longish trips in my car and I'm beginning to get more confident in planning stops - Last month did a 600+ mile round trip from Cardiff to Norfolk and today I've just completed 350 miles for a week family holiday in Devon.
Hi, Chris great news on your trips, confidence grows with each journey. I think it's just my age, as I get older I stop more often, but then discovered it also makes quicker journey times. Now I don't need to tell my wife I'm stopping for the bathroom, I just say we need to charge, Dave
Great video! Very well explained. I always only charge to a level that gets me to my next charge plus a buffer for diversions. Of course, this is only easily possible with cars that have a good range such as your Model S or my eNiro but the principle still applies to all EVs on a road trip... try to always be charging at or below 50% and never above 70% unless it is absolutely necessary to get to your next charger or unless the car is waiting for you and no one is waiting for the charger.
I agree for new cars the latest model S does 350+ but my older model S only gets me 250 miles per charge and most new EVs do more these days. But agree on charging only do what you need, Dave
Hi there, I have been an EV owner since 2016. Recently, I have noticed a marked drop in charging etiquette. People used to charge to 80% never to 100%. However, recently i havr brrn blocked behind people charging to 100% several times. I think its because the early adopters were true enthusiasts who underrstood the laws of physics and were interested by charge curves and nerdy things like that. Unfortunately now the masses are involved they want to just treat their ev like their ICE car. I am not a tesla driver so this is s problem at somr busy charging locations.
Yes Brent, totally agree, I've seen this. But also with LFP batteries they do like to be charged to 100%, just not necessary every single time. No easy answer, as some cars come with free or cheap charging and people want to get their money's worth. Education is the answer, Dave
@@davetakesitonI hadn't heard before that LFP batteries "like" to be charged to 100% - only that they won't degrade so much as a result of it. Anyway they should charge to 100% overnight on a slow charger or when nobody is waiting for the charger. I think it is poor form to charge to 100% on a rapid charger when you have people waiting for that charger to become available.
@@brentmeistergeneral1054 Hi, yes, Tesla handbook states that LFP should be charged to 100% each time, but if you can't you should then do a 100% charge at least once a week. It is exceedingly poor form to do that 100% charge at a public charger, especially if it is busy, Dave
Thank you for another very clear and well demonstrated video for us late EV adopters Dave… ✅ 👍🏻 Very informative and easily grasped/understood - but even though I am yet to pick up my pre-loved EV (Saturday!… 👏🏻) I understand it is very rude to charge beyond 80% at a public charger, especially if others are waiting to charge… 😉 🙄
Here in Germany, I have often heard the following explanation of how the charging ions work: the battery is like a multi-storey car park. In the morning empty (eg SOC 5%) when shoppers turn up, the first cars (ions), quickly find a space on the floor they need, but as the car park fills up (SOC 50%), cars/ions have to drive around more looking for an empty space until it gets very full (SOC 90%) and they spend ages looking for a gap........well it made sense to me, at least!🤣
hey, I really like that, what a lovely picture it paints, thanks, and if you have any info on the charging scene in Germany I would love to hear from you, Dave
@@davetakesiton will do Dave. I'm hoping to take delivery of my BMW iX1 in July & my first trip will hopefully be taking my oldest friend (from UK) for a week around Bavaria. But in general I think the same issues but perhaps German infrastructure is a bit further advanced. However, that actually only leads to even greater expectations & thus a constant level of 'frustration'. That's the beauty of it for me - the ever changing goal posts & I hope as 68 year old, I can be part of improving that for the younger, making it a more economic and worthwhile experience l, never mind trying to put right some 8f my environmental sins, starting with a petrol guzzling, 6V, 1100cc, VW Beetle Beach Buggy in 1972!
Hi Dave, the only downside to this strategy, is when towing a caravan. Stops will take more time, due to having to un-hitch and re-hitch every time, as there are no pull-through chargers yet, apart from the Gridserve at Braintree, which is nowhere near my routes. (Stoke to Cornwall) Maybe it would still be quicker overall, even adding 15 mins per stop for un-hitch and re-hitch. The main problem I face, is there not being many chargers on the M5 and A30 in cornwall, that are over 50kw. My car can charge at 200kw. I thought that this would be fantastic when road-tripping, but the reality is, the woeful infrastructure.
Yes Nick, I know that journey well, having lived in Falmouth for 30 years, Lifton Downs and now Pool/Camborne for superchargers, way too rare, but times are changing, just heard that the petrol car was invented in around 1886, but the first petrol station in UK was 1919. Hope we don't have to wait that long for a decent network, Dave
I was always told , charging is like filling a bus with with people .. the first bunch .. rush in , find a seat a randomly .. the next bunch rush in ... but takes longer to find a seat ... etc etc the people ( elecrons ) will still fill the bus .. but takes longer as you add more in
Really interesting and thank you! I'll try this approach later this year going on a real road trip from York to Isle of Harris. Not sure about the waistline though with all those donut stops!
A great video Dave although a little over simplified. Having done several long road trips myself I always know my next stop and it's generally an Ionity because of the speed and reduced rates I currently pay there. I'm not going to pay over twice as much to shave 5 minutes off my time or go to a charger that only gives me 100 kW. My car will do 10 - 80% at Ionity in 30 minutes so I tend to stick to that. I have gone to 90% when the distance to the next Ionity charger means I may need an extra few percent. The other thing to bear in mind is every time you stop you add about 5 minutes finding and parking in one of the charging bays and getting back on your journey. You're also gambling slightly each time on whether you will have to wait to get on a charger or not. I know Tesla chargers let you know but not everyone owns a Tesla and the information on Zap map, ABRP or even the onboard Google maps is often not up to date. I've gone to chargers before and it said several were free, by the time I got there none were free and 2 weren't working. So what I'm trying to say is more shorter stops aren't always better. When the charging network works perfectly and we have pricing that barely changes from one ultra rapid to the next then I would agree with everything you say. Unfortunately for most EV drivers Utopia is still a fair way off.
Nice to live in a dream world Dave 😄 Thanks again for a very informative video it does make sense however there is no way I am ever going to let my state of charge get as low as 10% whilst driving in the U.K. We have, and I’m sure you will agree, probably the worst charging network in Europe. To few chargers and horrendous reliability. Until this changes I will stick with reading a book and charging to 80+% 😄
Hi Kenn, to each his own, you’re obviously a non Tesla driver because in my month on the road I never found one supercharger unit out of service yet I found more broken failed non Tesla chargers in that month than the last 4 years. It is appalling and it needs changing. My video is a suggestion, you are free to charge how you want. Even Formula 1 tacticians disagree on the number of pit stops, Dave
Dave you are spot on. I am not a Tesla owner. The rest of us are dependent on the U.K. Government getting their act together and actually managing the charger rollout (heaven help us).
I'm with Ken here too. Important point reliability and availability of the next stop. So I too in my i3 will stop for 40 mins and almost fully top it up. 20-90% again is just around 40 mins.
I tend to never charge above 80% on a rapid charge as the last 20% takes as long if not longer than the first charge. Having 200 miles range from the 80% still lets me enjoy my coffee and cake as well as getting me to my destination feeling more refreshed. I stop when I am ready and the EV charges. Easy.
And you believe their estimates? Modern higher range models can charge much quicker, up to 275kW or higher, so yes, if you have one of those and if you can find a powerful enough charger on your route, and if your BMS allows it, charge to 80% or 30 minutes whichever is shorter, and that will cut your journey time. But most EVs on the road are base models and have 100-150kW maximum and a lot of chargers are 50-60kW. We struggle, Dave
Any decent journey and you can put it into the ABRP app. You can select start % and destination % and it will suggest how to best charge for your car. Invariably the fastest way from A to B is by making multiple 15-25 min stops to charge 5% to around 50-65%. Now I fully appreciate this is fine in a Tesla and probably too much of a gamble for non-Tesla owners, and this is where the government are failing to enforce the standard, speeds and up-time of other networks. Ideally your destination hotel / entertainment / restaurant will have a slower charger to top up ready to leave. We have begun choosing hotels or holiday accommodation with charging facilities, and hopefully others will too and it will encourage other businesses to do the same.
This sort of scenario (I gave New York to Los Angeles as an extreme example) to prove to someone EV will only add 15% to a journey when you take into account human needs, charging while you eat and charging while you sleep. After you subtract stops needed for an ICE driver. So many people are still in the petrol, fill to 100% mindset, and it hurts EV adoption. Another reason I love the Tesla in car planner. “Time until departure” and destination % when driving and when charging
Makes total sense. I have 360 Ah's of LifePo4 batteries in my campervan and they respond exactly the same way. I believe there was talk of graphene being used at one point but it seems to have fallen through as I've not seen any for sale. They were meant to charge at a high rate right up to 100% which hopefully will happen before long in some form.
Just one thing... you added for the shorter stop the extra 8 minutes to get to. 60%. So really ... that is one stop less... so still 27 minutes less traveled time.... Even Better!!
Owners of Korean 800V EVs and also some German cars should be aware that this doesn't apply for their cars. For the Korean cars it doesn't matter if you plug in at 10% or 30%, because they charge the fastest between 30% and 50% if you plug into a 350kW charger, and they will charge at over 100kW even at 80% state of charge. If you plug into a 150kW charger, they will draw the full 150kW for basically the entire 10-80% cycle. So even if the charger can't deliver the peak 240kW you would usually get between 30% and 50% you only loose a few minutes by plugging into a slower charger, as long as it delivers at least 150kW. In theory you could still gain a few minutes by riding peak power only, but in reality it only takes 20 minutes to charge from 10 to 80% and you also double the chances to run into trouble by doubling the number of stops.
Yes, Adrian, different cars have different charging curves and you should know your own. At some point in the charging cycle, the rate slows down, that is the point it might be best to stop, unless you specifically need a much higher charge. At my age I tend to stop every 2-3 hours on a long journey, which equates to 150-200 miles, sometimes much less. Some stops are short, some much longer. Charge accordingly, Dave
@@davetakesiton Yes, the problem with cars such as the Ioniq 5 is that they charge too fast for that. I usually plug in, have a smoke, go wee, have another smoke, unplug and park on the parking lot. Only then I can go have my espresso and croissant uniterrupted by the car telling me it's done charging. You can't let the car sit idle at a 350kW charger. Other people might need it and there are usually only half a dozen 350kW stalls or so at each service station. They also tend to charge hefty fees for sitting idle at a charger. Setting the charging limit to 90% instead of 80% will only yield an extra 5 minutes or so. On the other hand, I don't need to recharge very often, if I start with 80%SoC in the morning, and if I do, then I need just a wee bit of extra juice. In that case I just pick up a cigarette length's worth of charge when I feel like it (chargers are abundant in my country). That amounts to about 50 motorway miles, which means I can do about 300-ish miles in one day with two cigarette breaks, and that's more than enough if you also need to work for a few hours that same day. In other words, with charging this fast it no longer makes sense to charge while taking your breaks, unless you actually need to deep charge, like on a long vacation trip.
Great info Dave. Have you any insite into why Tesla hasn't been put in charge of all EV charging, the world over? It seems like they have cracked the charging and reliability problems already, so they may as well open up the network, and keep pumping out the chargers. Then obviously, charge a bit more for non-tesla owners. I know they're opening up a few sites to us non-owners, but they seem to be able to roll them out faster than anyone else, and their system just works. Surely all Gov't subsidies should be re-directed to Tesla, and not these small companies who can't seem to pul their finger out.
hi Nick, logic and governments do not go together. too many people are trying to cash in on the EV boom and think they can just throw in a charger and sit back. they can’t. Tesla has a massive advantage; they have a dedicated highly efficient factory to make them, they pre assemble them into concrete bases and when they arrive they dig a hole, drop it then and connect the electrics. 70% saving on the charger and almost the same in installation costs. finally Tesla is registered as an energy producer and utility company and they trade electricity to reduce the price we pay, Dave
Thanks for this very helpful video. I'm planning my first long-distance journey in my new MG4 LR. How am i best obtaining the charging curve/mins per 10% ect.
Hi Ash, good luck on that one. I will try to find them for you, but the manufacturers really don't go out of their way to advertise them. If I can't, let me know the size of your battery and I will forward a generic graph which should be close. Also, I've heard great thing about the MG4, would love to hear from you about how it goes, Dave
@@davetakesiton Thanks for your reply. I thought as much. Worse case scenario, I could run the battery heater and then do a local rapid charge recording the results, lol. The battery size is 61.7kwh (usable) and the long range is rated at speeds of 135kw. Any help and information is always appreciated. I will keep you posted on my experience as I've had the car less than a week and love it so far (in particular with it being RWD vs my previous EVs) , kindest regards
I have a 2022 Kona 64kw. I charge at my local Tesla chargers. I connect at say, 20% and the charger ramps up to 35 mph. At approximately 40% the speed increases to a max 80mph till the battery charge reaches about 55%, when the speed drops to 53mph. At 65% the speed starts to drop to 37mph, then at about 78% slows to 23mph and totally stops at 90% charge. To put 55kw into the battery takes about 1 hr. Works for me! If I was travelling across country, I would charge to a slightly lesser amount.
hi, I offer advice based on my experience but everyone and every car and every journey is different. I’m glad you found what works for you, and thanks for your data, Dave
This is all ok if your, Retired with all the time in the world + paying almost double for your vehicle in the first place. Add on the cost of all those coffees and donuts. Where is the economy.
Hi Phil, I’m not yet retired, my car was bought used and not double and I would take coffee and doughnuts even if I didn’t film these videos, mmmm, thanks for your comments, Dave
hi Peter, there is nothing you can control, it’s the battery management system that does that. I go on holiday and leave my car plugged. Tesla recommend that procedure. the BMS controls the charging, plug it in and it will decide the best speed and power settings. if you ever plug a stone cold battery into a supercharger it doesn’t actually charge at all, merely uses the charger power to heat up the battery. only when warm enough will it start charging, Dave
@@davetakesiton thanks Dave. I suppose I was thinking that keeping the battery to 50% minimum charged level would cause it to recharge more slowly and that might be better for long term health? I don’t have an EV car but i do have an E-bike and an iPhone so I thought that might apply to them.
@@petergilbert72 interesting thought but I have no knowledge that charging slower affects the lifespan of the battery, in fact there are accounts of Teslas that have only ever charged at superchargers and they seem to do alright, trust your battery management system, Dave
Hi, dead right, but I need to for these videos, so I only typically put in 2 or 3 kWh just to find out how easy it is to use and get the charge rates. Much prefer home first, then Tesla Superchargers, Dave
I genuinely struggle to grab a quick bite to eat when charging from 10% 80% it’s just seems a non issues once you experience really how quick cars charge now
hi Lee, I totally agree. mine is an older model maximum 150 and many people have slower. I’m looking to upgrade next year to take advantage of the sheer speed with which some cars can top up. enjoy it, it probably also means you eat less doughnuts than I do, Dave
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You're analysis is definitely spot on when it comes to EV charging. My retired electrical engineer friend came up with the best analogy of a 30 U.S. gallon petrol tank filling up at a pump that dispenses at a rate of 30 gallons per minute. When the tank is near empty, it can take on the full rate. As it gets 3/4 full, you'll need to back down dispensing rate or you'll have liquid fossilized dinosaurs gushing out of the filler neck in no time quick. Electrons spewing out of the charge port of your car is something I really don't want to experience let alone petrol.
In my experience on long road trips, I find bladder anxiety more than finding a charger and 2 hours on average is the max that I can be on the road anyway. 20 minute charge sessions on a 250 kW max stations gives me plenty of time to hit the washroom, refuel my stomach, top off my coffee mug, and stretch out my legs. There might be a 1 hour session in between because I just want to get in a good relaxing lunch or dinner break.
One minor improvement would be if the car can display some information like the charger is able to dispense 250 kW for example, but the car is only requesting 150 kW. At least you're in the know of what is happening during the charging session and not having to guess if the car is requesting that charge rate from the charger or the charger has a hard output limit. I digress...
Spot on good review. 2 hour stops are common as you get older. Not sure of other apps and displays but Tesla show this kW speed and time remaining on both the display and the app, there’s probably an app out there for other cars
A HUGE revelation for me was entering a destination in my Telsa Model3 standard range route planner and letting it tell me where and when to charge and by how much. On a trip from Southern England to Scotland, this saves me hours over trying to guess for myself. It also balances out busy chargers with less busy ones, so may re-route me, but with overall faster journey times. It's an absolutely incredible algorithm, and makes it so much easier on long journeys. The added bonus is, I will likely stop at places I wouldn't have otherwise, making for a fun experience
Hi Graham, massive advantage and it's only a relatively recent over the air upgrade that included Ionity, Gridserve and others. People criticise Tesla for being dear, but they are leagues ahead of all other EVs available today. Plus superchargers average about 40p per kWh, Dave
@@davetakesiton Hi Dave interesting video but perhaps a bit of a stretch to say Tesla's are leagues ahead of all other EV's available today? I would say my electric BMW is ahead of a Tesla in every way except for the charging network. Although where I live, even the Tesla chargers frequently have a queue at peak times.
I recently returned from a round trip of 339 miles of which that included just 11 mins charge. My final leg was from Oxford to East Midlands and all the planning said i'd need a 6 minute stop which I wasn't fussed about but when I came to leave, the route was different, possibly due to traffic and a more distant charger chosen.
I was only doing about 65mph on motorways, chilling out and watched the range improve from the initial requirement to charge, then into single digit positive figures and then about 40 miles from home, I noticed my route no longer included the charge stop!
Estimate was now 12% upon arrival at home. About a mile from home, it dropped to 11% but that was plenty of course.
Very impressed with the car and the way that all worked out. This is MY LR and i'm getting just smidge over 4m/kWh at the moment.
@@djtaylorutube Trust the chargers and route planners, Tesla does an amazing job. I did once worry when, in the East Midlands, I entered my home address and it said no stops needed, arrive with 4 miles remaining. I watched it like an eagle, but finally got back, even with a small traffic detour, with 9 miles left, Dave
@@davetakesiton Yep, it's really confidence building and I monitored my options all along but when you see the improvement building and watch the trip projection, it's pretty easy to feel relaxed.
Really looking forward to our trip to Switzerland next week and I can't say that i'd feel anywhere near as excited in one of our ICE cars.
Thanks for doing this video. Especially the highways maintenance flatbed with it's traffic lights still switched on!
I saw that and fell about laughing, grabbed my iPone and followed him, Dave
It's also good for safety and driver attention to have regular stops - in practice about every 2 hours, which makes 20 minute charges even more sensible. Given the price of most public chargers, I do also try to only charge enough to get to my destination (with a bit of a contingency on top). Only downside is that you can't guarantee availability of chargers - especially when others are hogging the chargers to go to 100%. 🙂 At least the various charge map apps can give you some idea of whether a particular charger is available. I've now made several longish trips in my car and I'm beginning to get more confident in planning stops - Last month did a 600+ mile round trip from Cardiff to Norfolk and today I've just completed 350 miles for a week family holiday in Devon.
Hi, Chris great news on your trips, confidence grows with each journey. I think it's just my age, as I get older I stop more often, but then discovered it also makes quicker journey times. Now I don't need to tell my wife I'm stopping for the bathroom, I just say we need to charge, Dave
@@davetakesiton 😂
Great video! Very well explained. I always only charge to a level that gets me to my next charge plus a buffer for diversions.
Of course, this is only easily possible with cars that have a good range such as your Model S or my eNiro but the principle still applies to all EVs on a road trip... try to always be charging at or below 50% and never above 70% unless it is absolutely necessary to get to your next charger or unless the car is waiting for you and no one is waiting for the charger.
I agree for new cars the latest model S does 350+ but my older model S only gets me 250 miles per charge and most new EVs do more these days. But agree on charging only do what you need, Dave
Hi there, I have been an EV owner since 2016. Recently, I have noticed a marked drop in charging etiquette. People used to charge to 80% never to 100%. However, recently i havr brrn blocked behind people charging to 100% several times. I think its because the early adopters were true enthusiasts who underrstood the laws of physics and were interested by charge curves and nerdy things like that. Unfortunately now the masses are involved they want to just treat their ev like their ICE car. I am not a tesla driver so this is s problem at somr busy charging locations.
Yes Brent, totally agree, I've seen this. But also with LFP batteries they do like to be charged to 100%, just not necessary every single time. No easy answer, as some cars come with free or cheap charging and people want to get their money's worth. Education is the answer, Dave
@@davetakesitonI hadn't heard before that LFP batteries "like" to be charged to 100% - only that they won't degrade so much as a result of it. Anyway they should charge to 100% overnight on a slow charger or when nobody is waiting for the charger. I think it is poor form to charge to 100% on a rapid charger when you have people waiting for that charger to become available.
@@brentmeistergeneral1054 Hi, yes, Tesla handbook states that LFP should be charged to 100% each time, but if you can't you should then do a 100% charge at least once a week. It is exceedingly poor form to do that 100% charge at a public charger, especially if it is busy, Dave
Thank you for another very clear and well demonstrated video for us late EV adopters Dave… ✅ 👍🏻
Very informative and easily grasped/understood - but even though I am yet to pick up my pre-loved EV (Saturday!… 👏🏻) I understand it is very rude to charge beyond 80% at a public charger, especially if others are waiting to charge… 😉 🙄
Here in Germany, I have often heard the following explanation of how the charging ions work: the battery is like a multi-storey car park. In the morning empty (eg SOC 5%) when shoppers turn up, the first cars (ions), quickly find a space on the floor they need, but as the car park fills up (SOC 50%), cars/ions have to drive around more looking for an empty space until it gets very full (SOC 90%) and they spend ages looking for a gap........well it made sense to me, at least!🤣
hey, I really like that, what a lovely picture it paints, thanks, and if you have any info on the charging scene in Germany I would love to hear from you, Dave
@@davetakesiton will do Dave. I'm hoping to take delivery of my BMW iX1 in July & my first trip will hopefully be taking my oldest friend (from UK) for a week around Bavaria.
But in general I think the same issues but perhaps German infrastructure is a bit further advanced. However, that actually only leads to even greater expectations & thus a constant level of 'frustration'. That's the beauty of it for me - the ever changing goal posts & I hope as 68 year old, I can be part of improving that for the younger, making it a more economic and worthwhile experience l, never mind trying to put right some 8f my environmental sins, starting with a petrol guzzling, 6V, 1100cc, VW Beetle Beach Buggy in 1972!
I'm just waiting to see my first all electric beach buggy, ahhh, the 60s and 70s, Dave
Hi Dave, the only downside to this strategy, is when towing a caravan. Stops will take more time, due to having to un-hitch and re-hitch every time, as there are no pull-through chargers yet, apart from the Gridserve at Braintree, which is nowhere near my routes. (Stoke to Cornwall)
Maybe it would still be quicker overall, even adding 15 mins per stop for un-hitch and re-hitch.
The main problem I face, is there not being many chargers on the M5 and A30 in cornwall, that are over 50kw. My car can charge at 200kw. I thought that this would be fantastic when road-tripping, but the reality is, the woeful infrastructure.
Yes Nick, I know that journey well, having lived in Falmouth for 30 years, Lifton Downs and now Pool/Camborne for superchargers, way too rare, but times are changing, just heard that the petrol car was invented in around 1886, but the first petrol station in UK was 1919. Hope we don't have to wait that long for a decent network, Dave
2 pull through chargers at Osprey Salmons Leap Hub, Dartbridge Road, Buckfastleigh, TQ11 0JR
I was always told , charging is like filling a bus with with people .. the first bunch .. rush in , find a seat a randomly .. the next bunch rush in ... but takes longer to find a seat ... etc etc the people ( elecrons ) will still fill the bus .. but takes longer as you add more in
Really interesting and thank you! I'll try this approach later this year going on a real road trip from York to Isle of Harris. Not sure about the waistline though with all those donut stops!
Hi Les, you get to an age where the taste beats the waistline, I'm way past that, Dave
A great video Dave although a little over simplified.
Having done several long road trips myself I always know my next stop and it's generally an Ionity because of the speed and reduced rates I currently pay there.
I'm not going to pay over twice as much to shave 5 minutes off my time or go to a charger that only gives me 100 kW. My car will do 10 - 80% at Ionity in 30 minutes so I tend to stick to that.
I have gone to 90% when the distance to the next Ionity charger means I may need an extra few percent.
The other thing to bear in mind is every time you stop you add about 5 minutes finding and parking in one of the charging bays and getting back on your journey.
You're also gambling slightly each time on whether you will have to wait to get on a charger or not.
I know Tesla chargers let you know but not everyone owns a Tesla and the information on Zap map, ABRP or even the onboard Google maps is often not up to date.
I've gone to chargers before and it said several were free, by the time I got there none were free and 2 weren't working.
So what I'm trying to say is more shorter stops aren't always better.
When the charging network works perfectly and we have pricing that barely changes from one ultra rapid to the next then I would agree with everything you say.
Unfortunately for most EV drivers Utopia is still a fair way off.
kW is the rate of charging. kWh is the energy stored.
with you on that, Peter, not always used correctly, Dave
Nice to live in a dream world Dave 😄 Thanks again for a very informative video it does make sense however there is no way I am ever going to let my state of charge get as low as 10% whilst driving in the U.K. We have, and I’m sure you will agree, probably the worst charging network in Europe. To few chargers and horrendous reliability. Until this changes I will stick with reading a book and charging to 80+% 😄
Hi Kenn, to each his own, you’re obviously a non Tesla driver because in my month on the road I never found one supercharger unit out of service yet I found more broken failed non Tesla chargers in that month than the last 4 years. It is appalling and it needs changing. My video is a suggestion, you are free to charge how you want. Even Formula 1 tacticians disagree on the number of pit stops, Dave
Dave you are spot on. I am not a Tesla owner. The rest of us are dependent on the U.K. Government getting their act together and actually managing the charger rollout (heaven help us).
I'm with Ken here too. Important point reliability and availability of the next stop. So I too in my i3 will stop for 40 mins and almost fully top it up. 20-90% again is just around 40 mins.
I tend to never charge above 80% on a rapid charge as the last 20% takes as long if not longer than the first charge. Having 200 miles range from the 80% still lets me enjoy my coffee and cake as well as getting me to my destination feeling more refreshed. I stop when I am ready and the EV charges. Easy.
Hi Jawolf, yes, relax enjoy your driving, thanks for your comments, Dave
Great video and the maths really is fascinating.
Thats why manufacturers quote how long it will take to charge from 20-80% which is usually around 30 minutes (equivalent to your 27 minute stops).
And you believe their estimates? Modern higher range models can charge much quicker, up to 275kW or higher, so yes, if you have one of those and if you can find a powerful enough charger on your route, and if your BMS allows it, charge to 80% or 30 minutes whichever is shorter, and that will cut your journey time. But most EVs on the road are base models and have 100-150kW maximum and a lot of chargers are 50-60kW. We struggle, Dave
Any decent journey and you can put it into the ABRP app.
You can select start % and destination % and it will suggest how to best charge for your car.
Invariably the fastest way from A to B is by making multiple 15-25 min stops to charge 5% to around 50-65%.
Now I fully appreciate this is fine in a Tesla and probably too much of a gamble for non-Tesla owners, and this is where the government are failing to enforce the standard, speeds and up-time of other networks.
Ideally your destination hotel / entertainment / restaurant will have a slower charger to top up ready to leave. We have begun choosing hotels or holiday accommodation with charging facilities, and hopefully others will too and it will encourage other businesses to do the same.
This sort of scenario (I gave New York to Los Angeles as an extreme example) to prove to someone EV will only add 15% to a journey when you take into account human needs, charging while you eat and charging while you sleep.
After you subtract stops needed for an ICE driver.
So many people are still in the petrol, fill to 100% mindset, and it hurts EV adoption. Another reason I love the Tesla in car planner. “Time until departure” and destination % when driving and when charging
hi, good planning can find hotels and rental properties that offer totally free charging, nice, Dave
Makes total sense. I have 360 Ah's of LifePo4 batteries in my campervan and they respond exactly the same way. I believe there was talk of graphene being used at one point but it seems to have fallen through as I've not seen any for sale. They were meant to charge at a high rate right up to 100% which hopefully will happen before long in some form.
hi again, Van, yes batteries are always improving. LFP love charging up to 100%. interesting to see where they head next generation, Dave
Surprised you charge those batteries so quickly, you can charge LFP at 0.5C beyond 90%
Just one thing... you added for the shorter stop the extra 8 minutes to get to. 60%. So really ... that is one stop less... so still 27 minutes less traveled time.... Even Better!!
Owners of Korean 800V EVs and also some German cars should be aware that this doesn't apply for their cars. For the Korean cars it doesn't matter if you plug in at 10% or 30%, because they charge the fastest between 30% and 50% if you plug into a 350kW charger, and they will charge at over 100kW even at 80% state of charge. If you plug into a 150kW charger, they will draw the full 150kW for basically the entire 10-80% cycle. So even if the charger can't deliver the peak 240kW you would usually get between 30% and 50% you only loose a few minutes by plugging into a slower charger, as long as it delivers at least 150kW. In theory you could still gain a few minutes by riding peak power only, but in reality it only takes 20 minutes to charge from 10 to 80% and you also double the chances to run into trouble by doubling the number of stops.
Yes, Adrian, different cars have different charging curves and you should know your own. At some point in the charging cycle, the rate slows down, that is the point it might be best to stop, unless you specifically need a much higher charge. At my age I tend to stop every 2-3 hours on a long journey, which equates to 150-200 miles, sometimes much less. Some stops are short, some much longer. Charge accordingly, Dave
@@davetakesiton Yes, the problem with cars such as the Ioniq 5 is that they charge too fast for that. I usually plug in, have a smoke, go wee, have another smoke, unplug and park on the parking lot. Only then I can go have my espresso and croissant uniterrupted by the car telling me it's done charging. You can't let the car sit idle at a 350kW charger. Other people might need it and there are usually only half a dozen 350kW stalls or so at each service station. They also tend to charge hefty fees for sitting idle at a charger. Setting the charging limit to 90% instead of 80% will only yield an extra 5 minutes or so. On the other hand, I don't need to recharge very often, if I start with 80%SoC in the morning, and if I do, then I need just a wee bit of extra juice. In that case I just pick up a cigarette length's worth of charge when I feel like it (chargers are abundant in my country). That amounts to about 50 motorway miles, which means I can do about 300-ish miles in one day with two cigarette breaks, and that's more than enough if you also need to work for a few hours that same day. In other words, with charging this fast it no longer makes sense to charge while taking your breaks, unless you actually need to deep charge, like on a long vacation trip.
Great info Dave. Have you any insite into why Tesla hasn't been put in charge of all EV charging, the world over? It seems like they have cracked the charging and reliability problems already, so they may as well open up the network, and keep pumping out the chargers. Then obviously, charge a bit more for non-tesla owners.
I know they're opening up a few sites to us non-owners, but they seem to be able to roll them out faster than anyone else, and their system just works.
Surely all Gov't subsidies should be re-directed to Tesla, and not these small companies who can't seem to pul their finger out.
hi Nick, logic and governments do not go together. too many people are trying to cash in on the EV boom and think they can just throw in a charger and sit back. they can’t.
Tesla has a massive advantage; they have a dedicated highly efficient factory to make them, they pre assemble them into concrete bases and when they arrive they dig a hole, drop it then and connect the electrics. 70% saving on the charger and almost the same in installation costs. finally Tesla is registered as an energy producer and utility company and they trade electricity to reduce the price we pay, Dave
@@davetakesiton So it makes perfect sense for Tesla to install all chargers. They have refined the process.
Once again, it is a very interesting video. I've learnt a lot. Thanks for doing all the hard work. It was much appreciated.
Thanks Nigel, I appreciate your comments, Dave
Yet more stopping and EATING. A total pain to have to keep stopping just to charge.
ah, yes Richard, but stopping to eat, that’s different, Dave
nice breakdown of charging time!
thanks, took some time, nice to be appreciated, Dave
Thanks for this very helpful video. I'm planning my first long-distance journey in my new MG4 LR. How am i best obtaining the charging curve/mins per 10% ect.
Hi Ash, good luck on that one. I will try to find them for you, but the manufacturers really don't go out of their way to advertise them. If I can't, let me know the size of your battery and I will forward a generic graph which should be close. Also, I've heard great thing about the MG4, would love to hear from you about how it goes, Dave
@@davetakesiton Thanks for your reply. I thought as much. Worse case scenario, I could run the battery heater and then do a local rapid charge recording the results, lol. The battery size is 61.7kwh (usable) and the long range is rated at speeds of 135kw. Any help and information is always appreciated. I will keep you posted on my experience as I've had the car less than a week and love it so far (in particular with it being RWD vs my previous EVs) , kindest regards
I have a 2022 Kona 64kw. I charge at my local Tesla chargers. I connect at say, 20% and the charger ramps up to 35 mph. At approximately 40% the speed increases to a max 80mph till the battery charge reaches about 55%, when the speed drops to 53mph. At 65% the speed starts to drop to 37mph, then at about 78% slows to 23mph and totally stops at 90% charge. To put 55kw into the battery takes about 1 hr. Works for me! If I was travelling across country, I would charge to a slightly lesser amount.
hi, I offer advice based on my experience but everyone and every car and every journey is different. I’m glad you found what works for you, and thanks for your data, Dave
This is all ok if your, Retired with all the time in the world + paying almost double for your vehicle in the first place. Add on the cost of all those coffees and donuts. Where is the economy.
Hi Phil, I’m not yet retired, my car was bought used and not double and I would take coffee and doughnuts even if I didn’t film these videos, mmmm, thanks for your comments, Dave
I realise the video is about quickness. But doesn’t charging much more quickly damage the cells reducing battery life?
hi Peter, there is nothing you can control, it’s the battery management system that does that. I go on holiday and leave my car plugged. Tesla recommend that procedure. the BMS controls the charging, plug it in and it will decide the best speed and power settings. if you ever plug a stone cold battery into a supercharger it doesn’t actually charge at all, merely uses the charger power to heat up the battery. only when warm enough will it start charging, Dave
@@davetakesiton thanks Dave. I suppose I was thinking that keeping the battery to 50% minimum charged level would cause it to recharge more slowly and that might be better for long term health? I don’t have an EV car but i do have an E-bike and an iPhone so I thought that might apply to them.
@@petergilbert72 interesting thought but I have no knowledge that charging slower affects the lifespan of the battery, in fact there are accounts of Teslas that have only ever charged at superchargers and they seem to do alright, trust your battery management system, Dave
Top mistake is not using the Tesla Supercharger !!!
Hi, dead right, but I need to for these videos, so I only typically put in 2 or 3 kWh just to find out how easy it is to use and get the charge rates. Much prefer home first, then Tesla Superchargers, Dave
9 stops is allot and wasteful there's also the issue of cost 9 charging session's
hi nice guy, totally disagree. 9 stops is relaxing, and the energy to cover 1000 miles is almost exactly the same however many stops you make, Dave
Good review Dave, but you don’t need to walk around like that. Go and get a cuppa.
What’s a comfort break?
Hi Ed, polite way of saying using the toilet, Dave
You have gone from stopping being a good thing. To now talking about how to minimize your stop time.
Totally compatible, stop often to break the journey, good thing, but don’t spend hours at each stop, bad thing.
I genuinely struggle to grab a quick bite to eat when charging from 10% 80% it’s just seems a non issues once you experience really how quick cars charge now
hi Lee, I totally agree. mine is an older model maximum 150 and many people have slower. I’m looking to upgrade next year to take advantage of the sheer speed with which some cars can top up. enjoy it, it probably also means you eat less doughnuts than I do, Dave
so 2 conclusions then: 1. more frequent stops. 2. Drive a Tesla
nailed it, Cosmodoc, life is simple, Dave