Twitter Artists are boycotting Clip Studio Paint (and its not looking good)
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
- Mohammed Agbadi talking about clip paint studio's new update and how the entire twitter art community reacted to it.
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This a commentary video on the twitter art community, twitter artists, art drama, art commentary, art rants, and fixing art
*_what drawing program do you use? *_**
Krita at this moment, but still with the old ones (photoshop)
Clip Studio...
I use Paint Tool Sai and Krita
MS Paint
Piskel and Aseprite. Yes I'm a pixel artist.
'You were supposed to destroy Adobe! Not join them!'
you were my brotherrrrr!!!
"Bring balance to the easily accessible drawing softwares, not leave them in darkness!"
"I HATE YOUUUUUU!!!"
I honestly think this comment needs to be stickied at the top. ROFL
I really hope no other drawing programs decide to follow their footsteps. As someone who only has a chromebook, Krita is pretty much the only program that works for drawing for me - if Krita goes to the dark side I'll be back to drawing on my phone with my finger. lmao
CSP users I'm so sorry for your loss
tbh i think more drawing programs are probably going to take the same route and just the thought of it is annoying
Is not possible for krita to go this same way, as CSP, because the krita's license is GNU GPL, so even if someone would buy krita and "turn" into something like this, people would immediately create new version/fork of krita,
this same goes for Blender - it just not possible for it to become a "subscription based model"
If I remember correctly, Krita and Medibang were created for artists by artists, so I don't see the development teams going the same route as Adobe and CSP
@@tygra2886 I didn't know that, that's very reassuring to hear, thank you! Hopefully at least some drawing programs will always remain free and available for artists to use
Krita literally cant go to the darkside, it is an open source piece of software, if someone tries to go darkside, someone else will just take the source code and fork it to a free one.
The one thing I fear is CSP realizing most people won't update from v1.0 and they release an update that cripples the old version so you're forced to pay for updates
This is exactly whats going to happen. Or the software ages out of being able to run so you HAVE to update
Does CSP have an auto-update we can disable somehow?
At this point I recommend pirating their software. Pirates are very quick, they'll have every update posted within a few days of the updates releasing.
Have a dedicated rig for art only, where you do not need to update your app, OS, and graphic tablet ever. If you can afford it get an extra graphic tablet as a spare.
@@1snivy10 heard it's not automatic, but idk how it works honestly
Looks like we're in a decade where corporates makes awful decisions, including CSP.
sigh.. it just suckssss
fr
not awful for them, only for us average consumers
Guys, be realistic... You expect the software to be backed up and maintained while paying pennies. Coders have to eat as well, and SaaS model is going to give them fuel to continue to work on the CSP instead of running it as a semi-hobby project (aka dying slowly and bleeding people from the project). Do you really expect a niche professional tool keeping up with its competition having $50 as one time purchase pricetag (and people buying it at 50% discount)? Do you want to see it straight up bought by Adobe for a hefty sum, as Figma was recently (for example)?
And CSP needs more love and effort in stability, performance and features, if it is going to stay afloat.
Your arguement is invalid. Blender is still free and still makes money as well as krita.
"Did you expected to pay one time for something and own it?" Yeah, we also used to have addfree youtube. This people will be paying for whatsapp and calling it fair.
seriously!
these people probably live off hellofresh subscriptions jesus christ 💀💀
I really do not see the problem with csp. Yes the payment options are a bit confusing but the one time purchase is still available, it just won't get any new upgrades, you know, like most products that are a one time purchase.
It seems very weird to me to have unlimited "upgrades" on a product that you pay only once and does not give value to the seller on the long term or by usage. (like what phones do when they collect and sell anonymous data).
Do people really expect to pay 50$ for a software, and have that software update and upgrade with new features until their time of death?
Don't get me wrong, I mainly use open-source software that is build and maintained by passionate communities, but even those people have to live somehow and mostly do with donations.
@@vladoxthedemon tbh what csp should've done instead of all this is stop providing updates for 1.x and just sell the program as is. Csp 1.x is at a stage where it has literally every feature you would ever need _along_ with the stability needed to support it. Developers honestly do not have to bother spending extra on their employees to churn out constant updates when there is just no longer a reason to.
They dont have to invest any longer into the program (aside from maintaining their servers) while the same amount of income would be flowing in through their sales. That's profit. They wouldnt have lost their reputation either, which means sales would keep coming. They already have a subscription plan for mobile devices, but people using it dont complain for that same reputation. So they have a consistent income from the mobile market as well.
The only time the company would have to invest would be making the program compatible with newer OSs.
All in all, this was just a bad decision, not just for the subscription plan but also for csp. It'll be 3 times more costly having to separately maintain servers for 1.x, 2.x and 3.x. And while feature updates will be turned off for 1.x, stability updates will be there, so they're still having to invest in this, not just for 1 but 3 versions of the program. And now with their new rep, sales _will_ drop. It's just a fat loss.
@@mcbedo6568 Agree, it's more of a communication problem than anything else.
OS updates can become quite consuming unfortunately, especially if your product is available on all of them, which get updated regularly so there is a constant flow of problems to be solved, so there is that. Smaller software have really big problems with this alone, imagine how it works for a complex drawing engine, it stresses me out and I don't even work there.
All in all, I hope this doesn't affect them too much, they are still one of the best alternatives for Photoshop as it comes to the drawing side.
I mean I’m not too mad cause, version 1 has everything I need that professionals have been using for years sooo, as beginner, I’m just gonna stick to my version 1.
me too! my version 1 is great and literally has all the tools i need so what's the point.
@@MohammedAgbadi Also, the last 2 or so updates were just... disappointing - the last 2/few updates looked like, if they just said "ok, put some useless stuff on the android/iphone app... And for the desktop version? IDK, let's give them some small fixes, and nothing more"
Same here, i paid good money for their service and they dropped me. If there's ever any bigger updates tho, I will for sure pirate for what I need formy art.
Exactly what I'm also going to do, since I use 3d models to help with drawing the poses of my characters and other stuff like certain objects like tables and such, and no other art program has a good 3d model system like csp does
Me too!
CSP probably just made the worst decision of their career. I'm still hanging onto hope that the company will realize their mistake with some sort of sales drop or something and correct it.
Since those who already purchased it only pay for updates, I'll just be using the base I have until something changes. I personally don't like Krita very well, it doesn't work properly with my setup, and I can't spend money on another service right now. So I'll still be using it, but that doesn't mean I'm not completely torn and ticked
like bro what's the point of discontinuing the updates? i found no single reason as to why they chose to go that route
@@MohammedAgbadi I know right?? It's kind of dumb
Unfortunately, all corporate businesses are the same. Even at the dawn of time, people use these to exploit for money and power. It’s not a surprise Celsys does it here.
@@serenegenerally Yup. Like I said, I'm hoping it leads to a sales drop during a boycott and they reverse it. But that's a thin hope
@@Harudodo eh. I mean, if you bought CSP, you have the program. What’s the point in buying ANOTHER update? you still have the update. It’s like EX and Pro. You have the program with Pro, just less features. And I can definitely live with Pro, just fine.
Dang, with all these companies trying to force down a predatory sevice onto there customers and fans, the seven seas be looking pretty good right about now.
Ar ar matey 😔✊
Lets sail! ☠️
The One Piece is truly real after all. 😔😔😔
YAR HAR FIDDLE DEE DEE DO WHAT YOU WANT CUZ A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE!
*sails boat into the fiery flames of hell*
csp has always had a reputation for being an affordable alternative to adobe programs while also being on par with what adobe offers. i'm licensed to use both photoshop and illustrator through my school, and i use csp to draw, so i have a lot of experience with those programs. and i absolutely adore csp. in fact if i were to compare csp and photoshop/illustrator, csp trumps in my opinion, especially because of their price (or at least, what once was the price). csp is great for beginner and professional artists alike and the interface is adaptable for whatever level of art you're at. so... csp backpedaling on this just makes them seem severely out of touch with their user base and kicks them off the pedestal that the art community has placed them on for years. i'll continue to use version 1.0 because i like what it does currently, but it is soooo disappointing to see them take this route and shit on all their artists, essentially.
pirating art programs is always okay 👍
@@shcanute well said
@@shcanute is it possible to pirate while also still being able to get custom brushes 👀
It is, from normal abr brushes to their own store stuff it's completely ok to use
to me it seems more to cater to other AAA companies Sub only shit like Adobe,Autodesk,etc.
Cuz alot of Big corperations don't Mind it cuz to them its standard.
Which I disagree.
If a progam wants me to pay monthly is a big "noooooooooooooooope."
"But new updates take time and cost money!"
Cool story. Then update the current version so it runs smoothly and bugfree and then work on a new full release. If there is a new feature, that i want, i will buy it. If i am happy with my old version, i will stick with that. More often than not i even find myself finding new versions of programs borderline unuseable due to changes to the interface or functionality i came to appreciate.
This. I still use an old version of photoplus as I can't find my favourite buttons on the later version. Neither now exist to buy.
Umm..... that's legit whats happening?
They're updating (unless there's been major changed I haven't heard from the initial story) 1.0 with new tools and things until 2 is released. The bugs and all that will continue to be fixed until 3 comes out.
2 can be bought outright but it's just the new tools you'll need the subscription for until 3 comes out.
If you mean version numbers, EVERY software I've ever used for anything has different versions. Most of which (unless a free program) you have to pay for a new version license to get the new one (not mandatory, but if you want the new tools that's how it is/was]
While it's free, I still use Gimp 2.8 for many things because 2.10 broke things I use regularly and no longer centres the image when zooming out (Apparently this was a bug in 2.8 but I really liked it because then I didn't need to manually recenter the image all the time to look at he full thing.. Which I have to do in 2.10... And there's no option in 2.10 for me to have auto centring when zooming out...)
What would have been the smarter route, would be a 1 time purchase of each big version update (1.0, 2.0, 3.0 etc.) kind of like what adobe did before turning everything into subscriptions. That way, they can continue to support themselves, while simultaneously allowing users to choose when they want/need to update.
from what i understand, that IS what is going to happen (you need to buy a new license for every new major version) but on TOP of that, there will be a subscription based service to get updates and new features on version 2.1+ up until version 3 is released
@@silverdrag0n_ then doesnt seem to be too bad. When v3 comes out just get v3. Im not too mad at this cuz v1 works fine for me
@@lethaldj13 you're saying this as if the time gap between 2.0 and 3.0 would be short. its gonna be a couple years at least
@@brutus3631 i never tried to imply that. i just meant that as long as it does its job on V1 doing the core basic stuff that i bought this software for, its all good for me.
if the new features are groundbreaking enough then maybe i'll check the newer version.
for beginners that are still just learning their way around digital arts i think its all good for now until they drop support for V1.
@@silverdrag0n_ Just to be very clear, buying a version perpetual license doesn't require a subscription, and will still be eligible for all updates for that version. Subscription is just an option for people who can't afford to buy a version perpetual license right away, or just wanna keep supporting CSP. The update pass though...that one sounds pretty grifty. Won't touch that one.
At least, CSP's perpetual license (for now) is still a lot cheaper than Photoshop's back then before they axed it entirely. I'll just keep my 1.x because it basically has everything that I need for work, unless 2.x brings really really really good features.
I miss the times when once off purchases of software was a thing and multiple movies and series weren't behind multiple different streaming services pay walls.. it's getting so expensive to just exist..
Always has been sadly, we just didn’t know until we grew up.
I'm missing those days, too. Depressing.
✨ capitalism ✨
Unfortunately, as long as OS and hardwares continue to update, programs will need to update as well, which means programmers need to be paid. And when they cannot make actual new products, they will make updates that don't actually mean that much, but that means everything else must follow through, so it's a money sink.
Idk
Have you considered piracy?
This is the reason why pirating exists and big corporations get mad.
This is why i use Firealpaca. Free of charge, continuous updates, listens to community, incredibly user-friendly interface, comic and animation options, great editor...
Yes!
Glad to see more FireAlpaca love here. It's completely free, available in something like ten languages, and is super customizable. Anyone who hasn't tried it, do it. I've used only free software my entire life, and FA is one of my favorites for PC.
For hobbyists i can also recommend Medibang. The brushes are limited in they way they can be customized and the biggest disadvantage is the limited eraser/blurr options, but other than that it has solid tools especially for manga artists
And unlike Clip Studio's mobile version (no shade for this particular thing because it's a fully featured program), Medibang can be used pretty effectively on a phone. I've been a Medibang user for probably five years now.
Im telling you, this is the year the companys decided to shoot themselves in the foot. Thank you Moha for making a video about this, hopefully another big channels and big artists like you speak against this decision and CSP open their eyes. The people who deffend this kind of decision are using a pirate version of Photoshop/CSP. Me like many other artist bought the life time license of CSP when we decided to make a living from art, or just because they wanted to support CSP to encourage other software to follow this route and not the crazy greedy non consumer friendly path of Adobe.
As i said, let's hope more people speak against this.
You thought they meant your lifetime, they meant the lifetime of their EULA. IF users could find something in the fine print a class action suite would be a good idea.
I haven’t done much research about this but I heard Celsys has joined MetaVerse? Could this be the reason for their unfortunate corporate decision?
im actually offended cuz i use clip studio paint and i like it 😔
i still use clip to this day and im buzzed
Well it's not that csp is bad. It's that they're making a really bad decision
I think it's an update payment I think but idk what did clip studio paint did this time
If anyone read this, I'm pretty comfortable with Krita. I really love the default brushes, and it's far quicker and intuitive to draw there than to draw on Photoshop (this one is more for adding the final touch, textures, mockup, or editing photos for my job). So... even if Krita's not perfect, Krita is free, Krita is good, Krita is kind. And it's enough.
I second this, as I use Krita for digital work here and there (though I will be more soon ..) all the brushes really are good enough, especially great for how free all of it is !
also the 5.0 version has improved krita alot, its more stable and honestly i feel comfortable using it.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a good business decision or whatever the fuck; going from a model that you advertised, was proud of and what people loved you for to something people hate was a stupid move. Brand loyalty is vital.
Personally, I’ve used both csp and procreate and I can say that they both work pretty well, they have similar features, in terms of illustrations. For Animation/comics csp definitely has more features, but if your just an illustrator and already have an iPad procreate Is def a great alternative.
i feel like the engine csp used for paint is much more powerful, at least from switching recently
I think procreate is very good for costing only $10 and not being subscription based
As much as I would love to walk away from Clip, I use it to make comics and learning a new program right now would be a huge setback in an already very competitive webcomic environment 😩
FireAlpaca is free and very easy to learn. I use it for comics too.
Procreate is very similar in my opinion, minus the store but procreate artists what’re free brushes and presets as well
Yeah bro how to find your comic?
@@poppycartergraphics120 procreate folio has very cool free brushes
@@poppycartergraphics120 procreate is awesome but for complex illustrations or comics where you need to manage a lot of layers CSP is way better unfortunately. Editing several layers in Procreate at the same time is a nightmare.
This genuinely makes me so angry. For so long I've sung the praises of CSP and tried to convince so many to use it because it has a lot of helpful features and it was a one time investment. I will probably never update again because I don't play those games
What I hate the most is loosing the new features when you stop the subscription.
I wouldn't be as mad if they charge each feature updates piecemeal like an expansion pack/DLC for a game and let you keep it forever. They can then release a full feature 2.X version with all the feature update when they are ready to move on to 3.0 like the 'definitive edition' of games that includes all the DLC.
One of the biggest issues is that they have not announced what features will be on the upcoming 2.0 version.
I can't find a price either. Version 1.0 has a monthly plan option for PRO($2) and EX($6) so it might be reasonable if it stays in the same price range. But I feel like if that was the plan they would have said so as soon as the backlash started
Well seeing as they've also announced during all this they've "joined the Metaverse standard", my bet is on nft and ai creation resources. But that's just speculation, I'm sure whatever we do get won't be worth paying them every single month for.
@@velvi8359 I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re planning on adding a function relating to NFTs somehow.
I left Adobe CC after years of spending, I purchased CSP and I had never been happier. I even recommended it to fellow artists and convinced them to make the move. I was so sad when I heard I’d be locked out of 2.0 like this. I am trying to make the most out of my money and this is not the way to go for me. I will happily keep my version 1. They’re not getting my money again, not like this.
It would've been understandable if they moved to selling different versions, just like how windows used to work. Users can jump between versions and only buy the version that gave them the feature and update they wanted. But they don't even give that option. If you buy the pass for several years and stopped, your version went back to version 1, not the version with the updates you've paid for several years.
I don't care if it's actually worth paying for the subscription or not, paying for them is basically telling them they can get away with this. Vote with your wallet and not words alone and then they might listen. If they continue this route, maybe, just maybe, the other art programs will start following the sub model too
WE WERE ALL ROOTING FOR YOU CLIP STUDIO.
Deadass if ProCreate got a windows release or even just a Mac release I’d ditch CSP all together. But CSP is just so good 😅
If they just upgraded the tool shop every so often to become more mod-able, they could probably make good revenue off the mod sales alone. Or a commission platform. Or literally anything else.
I’ve used both and imo CPS is much more comfortable to draw with that procreate. You have more control over brush size and the UI just feels more intuitive. The only thing I prefer procreate for is drawing geometric shapes, as procreate can correct you circles/squares/lines into prefect shapes by holding the brush.
I'm so sad, cuz the layers and selection tools in CSP are so good, you can knock stuff out so quickly with them. Hopefully procreate improves their layer management
You can have perfect circles/squares/lines by holding Shift in csp.
Dang I was hoping to use Clip Studio Paint in the future, guess I'll stick to Medibang and any other drawing program.
Keep up the FIRE as always, Mohammed
thankyou so much!! i'll do my best!
You can still buy one time lisence, and as far as i'm concerned, CSP is feature ready. As in it has all the that an art program needs to have.
@@muranziel hmm i might consider it then
Open Canvas 7.
Thank me later
@@kimichibreathandstinkyswea1940 ight will do
I'm good with my current version 1. The pens work beautifully and I don't want to halt production of my comic to learn new software, and honestly after using CSP for years, Adobe would have to pay ME to go back to Photoshop. I hate updating software anyway because 99.9% of the time it just breaks something about the software I liked.
The update pass is what really kills it for me. I'd even understand the addition of subscriptions if they used the Corel Painter model of either paying a monthly fee or getting the FULL year version with all updates. Buy having to pay both base program AND updates, and not even keeping them if you stop paying? Screw off.
They got greedy and they payed for it.
ong
@@MohammedAgbadi ong
It's less features that I'm unhappy with. I am comfortable keeping my version 1, and use custom brush files whenever I need.
My issue is the lack of bug fixes now, which'll mean that I'm required to pay, for fixes in mistakes in programming that the Devs made.
It's just sad that they took what made them viable and appealing as a program has been discarded in lieu of a more passive, greedy route.
Update: CSP says they'll still be supporting version 1 with patch updates after version 3 releases. Version 1 will be around for a while.
it wouldve been a better move to them to open up patreon or a dono page in general to help fund updates bc like doesnt krita do that? when you have a lot of good will, people are willing to give back
Or they stop doing their $10k monthly giveaways...
@@ghoulchan7525 that’s what I was thinking lol! They were acting like they have money to burn with those contests! And they probably do, and this is just a money grab move sadly
They could've pushed their Gold system a lot more-make gold membership a subscription instead of relying on me buying a certain amount of gold (which I'd rather use on buying assets than have my Clippy held for ransom).
I used CSP a lot with my Wacom and xp-pen tablets (even invested in a big ass xp-pen tablet) and procreate for my iPad. I've usually stuck to my iPad simply for mobility but csp has such wonderful features that this honestly does feel like a punch in the face in a way. Like, sure, I have the perpetual license already (I think I bought pro back in the day) but like, what if they do release some features that would be worth the update? It still sucks that they went this route.
i even switched from ps to clip becuase drawing just felt so much better in clip paint studio and the perspective tools and comic tools were so handy.
@@MohammedAgbadi I am honestly really furious about that change, because the features and the way CSP works with my old Intuos Tablet feel soo good, and i also switched from PS because it just stopped recognizing the drivers for my tablet. Guess it's time to switch to Paint Tool Sai or Krita...
It’s moment like these that make me glad that Medibang and FireAlpaca exist. They’re pretty much sister programs and last time I checked, PC version is free. Used to be something some speedpainters used
For anyone considering Krita or has used it before, make sure your always using the lastest version. Krita updates pretty often so it worth giving it another look if you've used it before. I just wish the software would update itself.
As someone familiar with Krita (never used Clip, sadly), Krita is a great alt to Photoshop and the animation layout is similar to Harmony (altho layers are also stacked on the side like Photohop). I definitely recommend it!
I've been using Clip with not-so-legal means, but I've been wanting to actually buy it for a while.
Guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing 🏴☠🏴☠🏴☠
just crack the damn thing
If you buy it now, you'll get version 2 + six months of update passes for free. Not too bad of a deal, honestly.
From my experience, Paint Tool SAI, FireAlpaca, Procreate are all good options. Procreate feels nice to draw on, but it took me a while to get used to drawing on iPad. It’s not as complex as CSP in some aspects but it works well. I think CSP is better at emulating the exact blending of traditional art mediums. It feels more natural. One of the things I really missed when using Procreate are the brushes that blend like SAI and CSP. I tried to find duplicates but their brush engine works differently so I don’t think it’s possible for me to achieve the same effects. Also CSP assets are amazing and so plentiful. I sort of feel like the details in my work lack more when I draw on iPad as well.
That's really bad. If this works for them they wont only just stop giving updates free but they'll start including ads and making you pay to get rid, then they'll start locking features you previously had access to etc. Coporate greed is ruining the artist industry and is especially hard on those just starting out, it's really sad.
CELYS did try to backpedal by saying they listened to the feedback but they didn't.
is that the recent update they released?
@@MohammedAgbadi Yes, it was.
It was their way of trying to pacify the people who were pissed off at the subscription model but if I remember correctly, they changed the date when Version 1 will lose the updates.
So instead of Version 1.x losing the updates until Version 2.x, it'll lose the updates after the release of Version 3.x.
The one time license is still available for people to buy.
Other than that, they just say to stay tuned for the price for the subscription.
I went from Medibang to Clip Studio Paint, and now back to Medibang i guess, lmao. Full circle so soon.
lmaooo i never tried medibang. is it good?
@@MohammedAgbadi compared to csp, no not really.
I also use Medibang and thought I'd give CSP a try but not anymore lmao
Medibang might not be the best but you still can make fantastic pieces out of it and that's really all that matters. Won a contest with it so it's not the worst but not the best you could get.
@@MohammedAgbadi Compared to heavy hitters like Clip Studio and Photoshop, not quite. But it's easy to use, and you can do a lot with it. And it also helps that it's completely free.
@@MohammedAgbadi Medibang is like the Clip Studio Paint's little brother. For lineart I think is really good, but for painting I'd recommened Krita. For better experience use Medibang with Firealpaca, since both programs can open the same file and firealpaca has more brush customization.
The problem is that inevitably when you upgrade your devices version 1 will not work on future new hardware.
Well I’m glad version one has everything I could possibly need for when I feel like doing digital art. So I’m not overly concerned about this update but I understand how people who are professional artists would have a serious issue with it.
Basically they reverted back to how art programs were before subscriptions became a thing, and the subscription pass is early access until it comes out. I’m not really bothered. I use procreate and clip studio though! I prefer procreate for drawing.
Great. This program is very useful for comic creating. And now, subscription forces ruining everything.
Linework with vector layers is awesome; not even procreate can do that (I love procreate, but they don't have vector layers yet).
It’s especially upsetting once you consider they spent the past year on a heavy advertisement campaign. A ton of sponsorships that hyped up the one time purchase and then sales to rake in MORE new users. All just to announce this.
Since there’s a one time purchase, I’m just gonna stick to it. I don’t give a shit about the updates because all I use is three versions of design pencil and real pencil. Now if they restrict your access to features because you don’t have a subscription, Imma jump off a bridge.
Playing devil's advocate, and I could be wrong here, but I think "feature updates" refers to when they add new stuff to the program. So "not receiving more feature updates" still means it will get bug-fixes and security updates, but if they add some sort of new selection tool (or something along those lines), you would have to then upgrade your plan to get that tool (either by buying the next version, or upgrading to the subscription model).
I know you say otherwise in your video, but there are few software programs I can think of (other than freeware licensed software, but those rely on voluntary donations of labor and money) that ever just keep adding features forever after everyone's already purchased them. Video games are probably one of the few exceptions here, but usually when they add features years later to one-time purchase games, it has traditionally been to keep good faith with their audience so that they'll want to buy the next game that company makes. If a company can count on fans of their products (whether they're games or otherwise) purchasing more products from them later, they are much more likely to have the resources to provide free maintenance on their old products for many years.
Software updates have to happen though, regardless of if they add new features, or else the software may become inoperable in a few years' time (and may even be a glitchy mess and security risk sooner than that). I don't know if you've ever tried to boot up an old video game from the 90's on a modern computer before, but they usually require a lot of "hacks" that other people have donated their time to figuring out in order to get them working on newer versions of Windows/DirectX/etc. It's the same situation for software tools. I would likely have a really hard time installing and operating something like Photoshop 6 on Windows 10 for example, as I don't think Adobe supports that version anymore (don't quote me on that though lol).
The company that makes Clip Studio, Celsys, doesn't appear to have much else going for it to generate revenue, and the nature of software tools is that people don't buy new ones very often once they have what they need. They may not be able to rely on enough income coming in from their current product, Clip Studio V1.0, to continue things as they are. Version 2.0 is likely an attempt to incentivize further purchases with newer features/conveniences to not only grow the company, but to also continue being able to support what's already there. Of course I don't know this for a fact, nor if their pricing to upkeep-cost ratio is fair, but I think there is a real possibility that this pricing change was necessary. Yes, Adobe did something similar first, and yes, Adobe is a monopolizing software giant of questionable ethics and pricing models, but that doesn't mean all software subscription models are trying to emulate Adobe's profit margins and shakedown their customers. Even with the new change, it looks like Clip Studio's pricing may still be a much better value compared to something like Photoshop for many artists. Lastly, if I'm right about the "feature updates" wording, you guys that are happy with the current version of Clip Studio probably have nothing to worry about unless you want to upgrade for some new bells and whistles later.
I don't think you're playing devil's advocate because this subject is probably the easiest to be misinformed about.
If CSP properly presented their idea across, people would totally understand it and not care about it. You're basically on the nose with the information you presented, because I don't think people understand that a lot of companies who make these programs need to find a way to make money.
Like the reason why more underrated programs remain free is because they still make a net positive off of ads and revenue, but when they reach the popularity of Adobe and Celsys, they'll have to change their model regardless.
@@jojobizadTRASH The way they announced it was needlessly complicated and scared more people than it really should have. I got scared myself despite already paying the monthly usage plan to use it on mobile. I'm glad they're giving benefits to people who recently bought CSP, it must've sucked to find out they're making a new version when they just purchased the current one.
Procreate is great for Ipad users, I've been using it for years now. It's a one time purchase and it really isn't that expensive.
SAI/SAI2 is more pricey but the devs aren't trying to milk money out of you, also a one time purchase.
FireAlpaca, Gimp, Medibang and Krita are all free that I've heard good things about.
GIMP is also FOSS (free and open source) and available on Linux if you're an artist who also happens to be a nerd. It's an old favorite of mine.
As a digital artist, it is horrible to see how much money the industries want to take from us. But as a developer with experience in a former toxic environment, I can understand this change. Let me explain. If a service is offering free updates on a product without extra costs, the probability of employers being exploited for that update is high. And I mean, no pay for extra hours, no testing, no proper functioning code just good enough to publish the update. I think this could be a help for improving work conditions. But, sadly, it could also be abused for better profit. So it probably is a lose/lose situation.
I've been using Sai for a few years now. Recently went through the process to use sai 2. I love the updated line work layer type, feels so much better to use. Honestly, I do 90% of my art using it. For some image resizing needs I go to medibang, or for other very specific purposes.
The only other art program I use is GIMP (it's free!), which I use for pixel art because the tools it has are so much more friendly to pixel art compared to the other two. It's just a MASSIVE learning curve to use, and from personal experience it's not friendly to painting using a tablet.
Hi!! I’ve used a ton of art programs, here are some of my opinions:
Procreate is great for doodles and professional looking illustrations!! However, it’s not super great for comics; it’s still possible, just a bit uncomfortable. It’s also great if you travel a lot, or don’t stay at home a ton. Very portable!
CSP is probably the best program I’ve used for webcomics. If you’re an artist trying to make money off of your art, or starting a comic, I’d recommend CSP.
Krita, Medibang, Fire Alpaca, and Ibis Paint are all great free programs!! The only problem with Krita are some of the bugs in the program, but there are resources on RUclips that help with fixing those bugs :)
In all honesty ive been using the ex version of csp since it debuted as manga studio 5. I'm not too happy with the route they are going for version 2 and the perpetual license thing, but in all honesty I'm probably gonna skip v2 entirely if i can and wait for v3 to pop out. Hopefully they'll still offer the perpetual licensing, but we'll see. If they do, then boom all features from 2.0+. As of now though, i dont need anything else from the program. It does everything i need it to do for my art at the moment. But paint tool sai would be the program I'd be willing to return to again if i had to say bye to csp.
I'm just over here eating popcorn with my affinity designer.
The people that defend them by saying "how will they pay for servers" seem to forget that the asset store requires real money for you to buy a good portion of materials. Unless you do the stamp card once every 6 or so months and cling on to the free Clippies you have, using them as sparingly as possible, you have no other means of obtaining a lot of good materials. And there are tons of professional artist assets with big bundles and/or webtoon creation resources that can cost thousands of Clippy and/or Gold.
I honestly don't think it'a a bad thing as long they don't charge Adobe prices. Version 1 of CPS has been around a long time by this point and is a tool used by industry professionals.Given its age and reputation, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.
It also used to be the norm having to pay new versions of software and new license keys all the time so it isn't really new. I do understand the outrage for starting artists and those transitioning to digital, but I think other programs like Sai, Krita, Procreate etc are better alternatives for those just starting with CPS being a step between those and photoshop.
yeah honestly, 60 bux a year is still a steal for professionals. The 'buy once every 10 years' just isn't sustainable.
It makes me wonder if they'll still offer discounts and deals (aside from the ones they're giving to people who bought ver. 1 in 2022), that was a huge selling point for them and they're going to need it more than ever.
Photoshop will always be my favorite but I do love procreate! To me, it’s not about the software but about your skills. You can adapt to any program.
i just never find drawing in photoshop comfortable which is why i switched to clip. but painting is great on it
@@MohammedAgbadi I’ve never tried Clip but I can see why you don’t care for drawing in Photoshop. I do agree that the painting is so nice but if I could just transfer my line work into photoshop then I’m golden. I’m sorry clip is doing this, seems like another company succumbs to the pressures of inflation and greedy intentions. Thank you for your videos, I always look forward to them :). Oh yeah, for years I worked in PS CS3 on a burned format and then they came out with the cloud. That sucked for me haha 😂
I've never been able to wrap my head around Photoshop, even after two years of classes with it. I'm convinced that artists that prefer it are wizards.
@@Solaceon to be honest I probably don’t utilize all of photoshop and I’ve also taken classes on it. It can be a lot and I wish I knew all of it, I agree it’s a lot.
hot take: I don't like subscription models in general. But as an artist that makes a living using CSP, I don't mind if CSP goes down this route. CSP is great and powerful software, and has been integral to the development of my career.
Companies need stable money sources to continue to develop and future proof software. If this means CSP will be around for 20 more years, I'm fine. But I understand why hobby-ists don't like this arrangment.
Honestly id be more worried that celsys is facing solvency issues. Because a change in monetization like this could mean they are having trouble maintaining the company on the current model... their subscription model is nothing new to mobile users who already had to pay that way. And it's still a fraction of the cost of the creative cloud/photoshop. Also the fact that perpetual licenses still exist means you can still get a permanent version, just without unlimited feature updates.... to be honest this latter but used to be how programs greenbelt functioned before constant internet connections.
If they were struggling they would stop handing out cash each month.
I don’t need the updates, i’m satisfied with the features that it has. Good that it’s optional.
Me tooo!! The updates are great as they are
I'm worried about using the asset store with outdated versions. Often you need the latest update for 3d models and those are my favourite assets.
I used krita for a bit when manga studio stopped working on my old computer for some reason. I liked it, but i wont lie it was a bit confusing to use at first. Great alternative for anyone wanting to switch off of Clip
I am using Krita 4 years now and I am happy with the program. ^^
There are tons of guides and If you get started then it isn't complicated like it was at the Beginning after some hours.
My advice, don't update your v1 if you bought it, now they will start adding code in the background for it to start breaking depending on the date, and when people ask about a big fix, they'll just suggest v2.0. Also, don't be surprised if you all lose access to all online things, like store and brushes
terrible decision ever, little do they know that they'll lose artists using this program!!
i'm sure they'll probably revert the changes before this is over
Here is what really gets me about the new about the the structure. If you buy V2.0 you should get all the updates for V2.0 till it's end of life when V3.0 releases. But that is not what they are doing, if you buy V2.0 you dont get any of the V2.0 updates that will come out. If it wasnt for that part, I would have actually been very more understanding of this move. The only reason I can see they are going that is to force everyone to go rather with the subscription model. And that is what really gets me
I read that announcement and understood it. Considering that's how software works years before subscription services especially remembering autodesk sketchbook was doing this with Sketchbook Pro 6, 7, and 8 before it became free.
This usually happens when there a major version with new features. at least they didn't go to way of Adobe where you can't get a license anymore. Since i can wait till 3.0 is released to get all the features of CSP 2.0. Still no one knows what the upgrade plan price is yet.
Though there are free software alternatives since i use both free and paid programs as well. But i'm not surprised though everyone is upset about this.
I love how some are calling artists freeloaders for being upset about the subscription model when those artists paid for the software in the first place rather than pirating it lmao
am a medibang artist and i'd definitely recommend!! though i am using only the free aspects, i think that it's a good program for beginner digital artists to get a feel for the software. there are also a few free cloud brushes too, so it's not too bad of a program. i don't know anything abt the payed stuff though
Medibang is moving towards subscriptions too, but it’s okay if you just want to use their basic features (which is admittedly a lot for being free).
I had a good experience drawing in Krita, i really like the pastel colors that are a little tuned down and not that bright but it makes the color connect better, which is better for people that struggle with color match and overall more balanced compositions. Krita also has a variety of brushes, but the downside is similar to photoshop in the way that it can crush sometimes.
haven't seen it mentioned directly, but firealpaca is free and open source, so (while its features aren't 100% up to par with paid art programs like csp) it's undergoing constant development and will literally never cost money to those who don't want to pay. And if you want to directly support the dev team, it's available for one-time purchase on steam (which comes with dark mode i think? as the only feature not consistent between the two versions?). Idk, been using it for ages and i still get giddy to check the dev logs when i see there's a new update . . .
I really hope some art software that's literally the closest thing to perfection comes by cuz atp I'll just switch to traditional art instead. At least it's free and never betrays me🤷🏾♀️
I prefer drawing in Procreate over CSP. I also use Affinity Designer/Photo on both desktop and iPad. (one time payment)
for me that rarely draws, one-time payment CSP is a real go to... but for now, I'm on a wait on how this update pass route will go
Mate when i heard the newa I was devastated, but after some thought it doesn't concern me too much now. As the programme currently stands its got all I need, so not in any hurry to upgrade or leave. still hopefully with a lil time they'll reverse their desicion
*_press f in the chat to pay your respects_*
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Feature-wise csp was the best I used but unless you had previously used other art softwares it has a steep learning curve. Procreate, on the other hand, is pretty easy to learn if you're a beginner but may be jarring for those switching softwares. For the price, procreate has pretty good features and tons of free brushes as well. Procreate has very clean UI and it almost feels like drawing traditionally because most of the screen space is dedicated to your work. In which csp is super cluttered and you have to clean it up.
This was the best summary comparison of these two. I do feel like I slightly prefer CSP’s brush engine to Procreate however, after having used both. It feels just a touch nicer to work with.
I love CSP with it's diverse material assets store, I got many helpful materials on the assets store and able to grab images, pen, brushes, 3D models ( mostly for pose ) and even some auto action that can ease some my problem...
When they decided to go to Subscription based route, I was sad since CSP was an amazing piece of tools I could've used...
Krita doesn't work well with my tablet pen for some reason and the stabilization somehow feels uncanny than in CSP, not to mention that Krita doesn't have 3D model space like CSP had and me relying on some 3D model to quicken my work on drawing a scene.
Honestly I was disappointed, but I shouldn't, I pirated this software cause I had a huge hunch that it'll turn into subscription based services and I jinxed it 🗿
It's times like these where I recall the famous Morbius movie line...
"It's pirating time!"
Really makes you wonder who's bright idea was it to drop these announcements when they could've hyped us up for 2.0. I won't be going forward with 2.0 unless there is some last minute change.
Procreate was definitely easier to learn for me as someone with only a background in drawing with a finger on my phone. CSP itself was also relatively easy though, much easier than photoshop when I tried that out, and csp definitely has better options for comics and animation. Procreate, as it's on small ios devices, lags like crazy when there's any text or animation involved which is why I decided to buy csp. I definitely won't support them anymore after this update, and instead of buying the ex version if I ever need it I'm just gonna pirate the software
Yes old software used to be buy it once, but eventually your OS changed to the point where you couldn’t use it anymore. So you were lucky to get 5-10 years use. Current software has the same problem, except users are less aware of how often they have having to modify the software to keep up with OS changes and now juggling multiple platforms (Apple and Android) are the norm when when it was just PC’s the norm was to design for just Mac or PC, few did both especially at cheap prices. The other big difference is now people expect the software to provide online storage/Cloud services and that costs the software company every month to host that traffic for every user. So it’s not just pure greed to sometimes need to create a new payment hurdle or go subscription… however many are charging entirely too much for their monthly fees, especially apps that aren’t actually creating a lot of new value/content/features. I wish more companies would offer either subscription or a one time price that maybe offers fewer features or forces the user to rely on other cloud services so the software company isn’t having to spend their money for your storage. I detest subscription only models.
ipad users, i highly recommended artstudio pro!! the blending is similar, and the interface is closer to one of a desktop program while retaining enough simplicity (even on an 11 inch pro) to not be overwhelming. it's also a one time purchase as well :D
My only concern is that they will do something to make version 1 unusable then refuse to fix it, it's not like companies don't do that already (apple)
I'm not going to buy an updated version of csp
Ngl, I’m going to probably keep using my EX license until it no longer is supported by Windows, but I’m gonna take my money to Paint Tool Sai. 1.X was abandoned (but still works well), however your 1.X license gives you Paint Tool Sai 2 for free which is still being updated.
Doubt you will Need something new offered by versions 2.x or 3.x . People may be too young, but back when Photoshop was pretty much THE software to use in art and it was a buy to use, the license was like 600-700 USD and if you wanted to upgrade it was like 200USD. People just used older versions and did the same as people with newer versions.
I just hope that when version 1 stops getting big fixes and updates, it'll at least stay compatible with future OS. That's my biggest concern
Pirates be wildin with this software updates. Funny and Sad at the same time.
😭😭😭
Me a krita user be like: da hell happened here
loool
what even are the "updates" every time I sign in and hit the Show What's New button nothing happens...
SAME
nah its on their website.
What I don't understand, is if a company that isn't Adobe makes a subscription program within the same price range but doesn't have half the features that adobe has, what would be the point of buying it? Aren't they setting themselves up for more competition?
i tried csp, but the shortcuts and flow of it was very clunky compared to what i could accomplish with my usual drawing software (sai/sai2). maybe it would be worth it for the brushes, but i had the same issue with krita and the brushes there weren't really worth it either.
I would understand if they had a lot of costs that they can no longer pay and therefore look for other ways to finance.
But subscription models are just nonsense, especially if your program is the alternative to Photoshop.
It would be better if they would offer a new version with a few features for sale, which then lasts about 3 years, as other companies used to.
But now to have later versions on the note and say that the 2.0 version is no longer valid for the 2.10 makes me angry.
Thank you for the Incredibles music in the background at the start. Such an appropriate song for the betrayal by Clip Studio.
I remember when I bought Creative Suite Edu, then after graduation bought the upgrade version for about $500-600, and then every other year I just needed to buy the upgrade. And. I. Owned it. I hated when they went sub only, and then Clip Studio went this route?!
For crying out loud, can’t any company stop trying to milk their users and just sell the app?
Procreate is my favorite drawing program so far.
I just couldn’t get used to drawing with clipstudio (both iPad/computer versions), even after 1-2 years of using it.