Too funny. Studied electrical engineering technology and was friends with the engineering manager. Even recognize his initials "MSR" on the PCB silkscreened date-code when you popped the lid; "04/97 MSR". Won't mention his name, but would also occasionally bump into his older brother who was a electronics sales rep in the Vancouver region.
The 6/8 bit DAC was used to dick around with the analog REF H and REF L voltages to turn the HC11 8 bit ADC into essentially a 16 bit ADC with an offset generator to measure small voltages on top of a 20V battery etc. also very dicky !!! It required quite a large lookup table Also the DACs are used to do a programmable charge PWM shaped charge/discharge/variable charge length charge cycle. The company originally thought of patenting this algorithm but it was so complex they didn't even care.
Actually, in some cooling applications (such as water cooling), you don't want things to flow straight. Increased turbulence (such as with the power resistor layout) improves the thermal transfer to the cooling fluid (in this case, air) due to increased air contact. Straight through means less air contacts the hot devices which means less heat transfer and thus less cooling. Since the resistors are right by the fan, there isn't as many places for the air to flow besides between the resistors, so the layout works for the resistors at least. Air flow is important, but if it's not pulling the heat, it's of no use. Example: I've designed custom copper resistance welding parts for work... one trick of the trade is to not make perpendicular coolant channels (small deep drilled holes) line up directly but at half the hole diameter off; this has a similar crossection to a straight junction, but this creates turbulence due to the misalignment, which improves how much heat can be extracted by the water. In a few cases this has made the difference between parts that stay cool enough and parts that overheat and cause a lot of problems!
Used to work for them ...many years ago. What makes the C7000 switch mode power supply unique....when it discharge a battery it actually switch the DC/DC waste energy back onto the power rail so it can be used to charge other batteries.....now that is pretty dicky!!!!! The big load resistors only dissipate the excess voltage generated by the discharge reverse DC/DC pump (4x) back into the power rail once it goes above 24V DC
Given they're using a mains frequency transformer, if they went to that effort to make the discharging capable of regenerating why not make the whole unit able to regenerate to the grid by using a H bridge as a synchronous rectifier?
@@NiHaoMike64 Then you get into a whole new level of certifications and testing. That and I can't imagine when you would want to only discharge batteries, i'm sure there is a case but I can't think of it. As far as internal reuse of waste power, I imagine you could have a discharge/charge setup. Discharge two batteries while charging two more. When that cycle is done, you put the charged batteries in a finish pile and move the newly discharged batteries over to the charge slots.
@@2009dudeman That circuit would be on the low voltage side of the transformer, so it wouldn't have the sort of UL listing requirement a high voltage grid tie inverter circuit would have. (I had a similar idea for a "beginner friendly DIY grid tie inverter" that connects via an AC wall wart, so that the circuit would only work with low voltages making it safe to tinker with and be exempt from UL listing requirements.) One use case could be discharging batteries in order to test the charging circuit in the application device with actual batteries.
Thanks for the great content Dave! What blast from the past to see this. When I worked as a research eng at Cadex I had over 20 of these all running simultaneously.
Cool! When I was working at a carrier servicing mobile phones, I used one of these all the time. We had adapters for all the models we carried. I don't remember ever using the keypad to configure anything on it, which was fine by me.
I got excited when I saw this. I used one of these for 4 years at a previous job. There’s all sorts of custom settings for each individual chemistry, like c ratings. We had a few custom pogo pin set ups also.
@@johnsonlam Unfortunately, I no longer have access to the equipment. We didn’t use the data logging features though, we’d just scribble the results down, contact the customer, and go from there. We did a lot of battery pack rebuilds and would always cycle them to ensure capacity before releasing them back to the customer. I can try and talk with the owner of the business, he may let me borrow the software to make a copy.
Bless you, Sir! When times are hard here, watching any of your vids brightens my day. I love your attitude! Very good, dynamic, and fun. Always interesting. Thank you for what you do! All good wishes.
Dave the flow of the air near the resistors is backward so the air is going from the box to the outside on the fan.. so the air find his way between the resistors naturally by low pressure. 15:55
We have the C7400 and use it all the time. We use it with two-way radio batteries and we have the cups for about 80% of products we see, the rest have to use the flex arm attachment. Its easy to use stand alone. Connect a battery, and it shows the previous settings used, then you can edit run it. It will only let you set voltage based on a multiple of the nominal volts per cell. So when 3.6V is highlighted if you up arrow it will go to 7.2V then 10.8V etc. It just treats 3.6V as nominal LiIon voltage. NiMH, same thing. 1.2V, 2.4V, 3.6V Etc. Once you finish editing the settings, hitting enter twice should start it running. I believe that eprom on the cup also saves the settings, "C-Code" as they call it, used in that cup. If I put a brand new cup in made for the batteries on a specific radio, Cadex has already loaded it with common batteries used with that cup. So when you connect a battery to it, you only need to navigate up or down to select the C Code that matches it. If you have a different battery, like an aftermarket one with more capacity, you can program it into a blank empty C Code slot on that cup, and then it will follow that cup whenever it is connected.
Grab yourself a Motorola GP340 or your regions equivalent. Charge the battery in a factory charger, and once complete, use a known good multi-meter to measure the terminal voltage. Now flatten the battery, and allow the C7000 and in-built C-code for that battery to charge the battery. Repeat the measurement. You'll find that the C7000 charges the battery within acceptable limits for the chemistry, but beyond what the factory Motorola charger will do. This "puts in" a lot of energy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now, using a battery charged on a factory charger, flatten the battery using a radio, such that the radio complains that the battery is flat - Measure the terminal voltage. Re-charge the battery on a factory charger, and then use the C7000 to perform a discharge - You'll notice that even if you attempt to edit the settings in the C-Code, you will be limited to voltages BELOW where the radio complained that the battery was flat. This "takes out" a lot of energy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lots of energy in and lots of energy out = High final capacity readings = Happy management who enthusiastically allocate more money for "these great Cadex units". The trouble is, the whole thing is a lie, and Cadex couldn't be less interested. Go ahead - Perform the same tests, you'll see what I mean.
@@digitalradiohacker yeah that's too long for me to read. We just test batteries on radios returned for repair so we know if the battery is good or not.
@@clynesnowtail1257 It's a real shame you reacted that way because I just checked out your uploads, and you appear to be in to similar stuff to me. I also work at a major UK Moto dealer. Cadex units don't tell you if the battery is "good" or not - That was the point of my long post.
The CEO of Cadex, Isidor Buchmann has written an excellent book about various battery chemistries: "Batteries in a Portable World." I have read it several times.
That fan is sucking the air out of the enclosure, not blowing on the resistors and heatsinks. Edit: and it looks like there are ventilation holes in the top of the unit. Not sure if they were lined up with the fins of the heatsink.
I work in the Land Mobile Radio field in Canada. We have a Cadex among other type of battery analyzer. For the most common radio we have radio chassis that interface with the Cadex. When client bring a portable radio that we don't service often, we will use the spring probe to analyze the battery capacity. You program the battery rating and discharge rate and it will charge, discharge and charge again the battery to yield a mah result. Intrinsically Safe battery for example need to be discharged at a maximum rate or the safety circuit would cut it off and broke the analyze cycle. Love your video :)
@@The_Original_forresttrump To be fair, it's priced on earning potential. Six monthly testing and reporting on $200 000 FLA batteries in the field is probably quite high margin.
The resistors are located good. The fan is not blowing. When it works is suction, you need them close as it will lose efficiency much faster with the distance.
Your cooling solution analysis would have been right if the fan was blowing, but it isn't and it's sucking the heat out with turbulent localised flow and does make sense.....cheers. (edit) That's not fair ! the black and white photo's you showed were not changes to the device you have, they are completely different engineering solutions with what look like bought in parts with there own cooling requirements !.....cheers.
Correct. the fan is set to "suck" not "blow". As far as the staggered design, that is actually correct, look at HVAC and other devices. They stagger them so the air hits all 4 sides and not just the 2 sides in the air flow. Air is just like electric, it will take the path of least resistance. Last off, those are the most hot components in the unit, they are set at the end of the heat extraction, right where it needs to be. Plus once the cover is replaced the air will be forced through those resistors.
Hi, Dave, good content like every time, I found it pleasantly funny when you explained the resistance configuration and the air flow, even though you can clearly see the direction on the fan. All the best and you're the best. Greetings from Serbia
So this is CADEX's older model, the C7000. Their most Current model is C7400 and C7400ER (Extended Range, ie Higher voltage battery voltage capability.) Our Fire Department uses 5 C7400's and 2 C7400ER's to maintain and test almost 800 batteries. Cadex was developing a newer, more Advanced "D" Series analyzer, but that stalled, back in 2016? Regardless they are great machines, they likely save our Fire Department somewhere in the order of $35,000 per year in battery replacement costs, and our fleet of batteries is worth close to $180,000. So they are solid units, dependable and easy to use! Thanks for the teardown from the Electronic component point of view, very interesting and informative!
Hi! If you're using a computer, BATSHOP shows in the screen. You need to change the serial port configuration to printer, terminal or disabled. I've used one for 7 years and recently bought one for me. It's a really nice peace of equipment and quite accurate.
It's cool to hear a familiar name. We used ATC Frost magnetics at my last job in Toronto back in the late 90's. It was good stuff and didn't give us any trouble like some big multi-national did later in my career.
I used to use one of these in anger to do runtime testing and battery recovery for tablet computers when they'd self discharged below the safety cutoff. Very capable bit of kit
I assume the switching converters for the individual channels are of some kind of synchronous rectification type, so they can either buck into the Battery or boost out of the battery in to a shared DC bus. The Transformer delivers a voltage of some 40V DC, if you want to charge a battery, just drive the according converter to deliver current to the battery from the bus, if you want to discharge, you can deliver current from the battery boosted up to the 40V bus. Eventually the bulk capacitors on the bus will rise their voltage above a comfortable level, than you can switch on those resistors to get rid of the energy (or even charge another battery on a different channel with it) The big advantage is, that you always have to deal with that same somewhat 40V, regardless of the battery voltage. Imagine discharging a 24V Pack Vs. discharging a single 1,2V NiMh Cell both with 1A. One would require a 24 ohm resistor, the other a 1,2 ohm. If you can’t make it perfect, make it adjustable. The placement of the power resistors is clever in some way that these are the components that care the least if they get warm, so they can be in the path of the already warm air just before it is blown out by the fan.
I finally did it for just that reason. I got a small air compressor with an air dryer on it in my basement. Ran me a quick connect hose up through my cold air return. Now when I got something on the bench that has actually never been previously tampered with and full of dust, I take it out on my front porch and blow it out good. I like how you just do it in the stairwell. Let the night cleanup deal with it.😆
I used this device when I worked at the Samsung ASC, checked the batteries of mobile phones, mainly checked the internal resistance, capacity, based on the readings of the device, they made a decision to replace the battery.
Before I even get to the full on teardown I'm looking at those DC barrel jacks and immediately want to say there's 4-wire sensing going on there, let's see... Yep I got it in one.
Fan is setup in exhaust not intake. Take a look back at the footage, denotation of fan spin direction and airflow direction are right there. Negative pressure system will suck air through the case where ever it can and then find it's way out the exhaust fan. Angle of airflow has nothing to do with negative air pressure transfer through the case. Bernoulli pressure principle thermodynamics are being used, not aerodynamics for thermal transfer. Everything prior to the entrypoint of air on the outside of the case is of a higher static pressure than that of inside the case. The air/colder air is drawn into the case from any entry point, the majority of heat is expelled from the high pressure gradient of the fan. It's not efficient with one singular fan, but the principle is sound.
Does the confused Dave head thumbnail actually make a difference for something like a teardown video? At least there isn't annoying overlay background music yet. (Hey wait! The thumbnail is missing an arrow...) Love you Dave :)
It may need the software to actually coordinate charge/discharge/tests, if it was never meant to function without detailed reporting of battery health.
@@EEVblog Both (in case of Li and SLA) ...but using duty cycle control of the pulse algorithm. You should check the charge voltage on a scope.......its trippy
@@dieboodskapper From your comment, I am guessing that they are using rather high voltage pulses to charge the battery and counting upon the battery to absorb the pulse and pull the voltage back down?
@@ethanpoole3443 Yes duty cycle controlled pulses of programmable variants depending on the "C" rate selected. This algorithm was developed mainly for NiCad, Nimh and SLA batteries that could tolerate the high charge/discharge duty cycle controlled pulses. However with modern day Lithium based secondary chemistries this type of analytic pulsed algorithms does not work so well anymore because of the nature of the battery protection circuity hiding the true electrochemical characteristics of the battery and because of this the C7000s ability to analyze Lithium based batteries becomes mute.
I’ve often wondered if a company from a certain country gets it’s PCBs made and populated from another country would they state made in there country on the PCB or were the PCB was made and populated? 🤔
I have at least oneof those (maybe two) that came with motorola handheld talikes adapters, the adaptaters works only for the intrisicaly safe 900/2000 series handhelds, I have two others that are more dumb (6 LCDs panels and swapable adaptors, but they are more bulky)
Sorry! How to rejuvenate batteries? It's the same like some toyota hybrid ''specialists' are doing? Is that any way to ''wake'' up a ruined NiMh battery?
I'm new to electronic and electric engineering, but what's the purpose of the large transformer in the battery analyzer? Like where does it transfer electrical energy to?
I recently adquired a C7200, want to know how to update the firmware, but seems that you need to buy batshop software, do you know any other way ti fo it without buying that software? It doesn’t make sense to me
please make a complete break down of lithium ion battery (none of the anode cathode nonsense) explain every thing from material science to flow mechanism and all the other good stuff
Only superficially. Anyone can measure voltage and current and calculate that into energy and internal resistance, but I bet there's a bunch of black art battery chemistry wizardry going on in the firmware, pushing and pulling pulses of current to/from the cells and analyzing voltage curves for very specific scientific stuff that determines what's going on inside the batteries.
Too funny. Studied electrical engineering technology and was friends with the engineering manager. Even recognize his initials "MSR" on the PCB silkscreened date-code when you popped the lid; "04/97 MSR". Won't mention his name, but would also occasionally bump into his older brother who was a electronics sales rep in the Vancouver region.
dude, you just helped to propagate the stereotype that we Canadians know each.
@@TheAnalogKid2 we do don't we? Haha
@@TheAnalogKid2 well you guys do...don't you?
@@LutzSchafer It's kinda necessary in Canada.
Hoser's eh?
"Disassembled in australia"
Love it
Dam bet me to it
The 6/8 bit DAC was used to dick around with the analog REF H and REF L voltages to turn the HC11 8 bit ADC into essentially a 16 bit ADC with an offset generator to measure small voltages on top of a 20V battery etc. also very dicky !!! It required quite a large lookup table Also the DACs are used to do a programmable charge PWM shaped charge/discharge/variable charge length charge cycle. The company originally thought of patenting this algorithm but it was so complex they didn't even care.
Actually, in some cooling applications (such as water cooling), you don't want things to flow straight. Increased turbulence (such as with the power resistor layout) improves the thermal transfer to the cooling fluid (in this case, air) due to increased air contact. Straight through means less air contacts the hot devices which means less heat transfer and thus less cooling. Since the resistors are right by the fan, there isn't as many places for the air to flow besides between the resistors, so the layout works for the resistors at least. Air flow is important, but if it's not pulling the heat, it's of no use.
Example: I've designed custom copper resistance welding parts for work... one trick of the trade is to not make perpendicular coolant channels (small deep drilled holes) line up directly but at half the hole diameter off; this has a similar crossection to a straight junction, but this creates turbulence due to the misalignment, which improves how much heat can be extracted by the water. In a few cases this has made the difference between parts that stay cool enough and parts that overheat and cause a lot of problems!
Used to work for them ...many years ago. What makes the C7000 switch mode power supply unique....when it discharge a battery it actually switch the DC/DC waste energy back onto the power rail so it can be used to charge other batteries.....now that is pretty dicky!!!!! The big load resistors only dissipate the excess voltage generated by the discharge reverse DC/DC pump (4x) back into the power rail once it goes above 24V DC
So you know MSR, then?
Given they're using a mains frequency transformer, if they went to that effort to make the discharging capable of regenerating why not make the whole unit able to regenerate to the grid by using a H bridge as a synchronous rectifier?
@@NiHaoMike64 Then you get into a whole new level of certifications and testing. That and I can't imagine when you would want to only discharge batteries, i'm sure there is a case but I can't think of it. As far as internal reuse of waste power, I imagine you could have a discharge/charge setup. Discharge two batteries while charging two more. When that cycle is done, you put the charged batteries in a finish pile and move the newly discharged batteries over to the charge slots.
@@2009dudeman That circuit would be on the low voltage side of the transformer, so it wouldn't have the sort of UL listing requirement a high voltage grid tie inverter circuit would have. (I had a similar idea for a "beginner friendly DIY grid tie inverter" that connects via an AC wall wart, so that the circuit would only work with low voltages making it safe to tinker with and be exempt from UL listing requirements.) One use case could be discharging batteries in order to test the charging circuit in the application device with actual batteries.
Thanks for the great content Dave!
What blast from the past to see this. When I worked as a research eng at Cadex I had over 20 of these all running simultaneously.
Cool! When I was working at a carrier servicing mobile phones, I used one of these all the time. We had adapters for all the models we carried. I don't remember ever using the keypad to configure anything on it, which was fine by me.
I got excited when I saw this. I used one of these for 4 years at a previous job. There’s all sorts of custom settings for each individual chemistry, like c ratings. We had a few custom pogo pin set ups also.
Send software to Dave so he can test.
@@johnsonlam Unfortunately, I no longer have access to the equipment. We didn’t use the data logging features though, we’d just scribble the results down, contact the customer, and go from there. We did a lot of battery pack rebuilds and would always cycle them to ensure capacity before releasing them back to the customer. I can try and talk with the owner of the business, he may let me borrow the software to make a copy.
@@VoidAeon Copy that floppy.
Bless you, Sir! When times are hard here, watching any of your vids brightens my day. I love your attitude! Very good, dynamic, and fun. Always interesting. Thank you for what you do! All good wishes.
Dave the flow of the air near the resistors is backward so the air is going from the box to the outside on the fan.. so the air find his way between the resistors naturally by low pressure. 15:55
We have the C7400 and use it all the time. We use it with two-way radio batteries and we have the cups for about 80% of products we see, the rest have to use the flex arm attachment. Its easy to use stand alone. Connect a battery, and it shows the previous settings used, then you can edit run it. It will only let you set voltage based on a multiple of the nominal volts per cell. So when 3.6V is highlighted if you up arrow it will go to 7.2V then 10.8V etc. It just treats 3.6V as nominal LiIon voltage. NiMH, same thing. 1.2V, 2.4V, 3.6V Etc.
Once you finish editing the settings, hitting enter twice should start it running.
I believe that eprom on the cup also saves the settings, "C-Code" as they call it, used in that cup. If I put a brand new cup in made for the batteries on a specific radio, Cadex has already loaded it with common batteries used with that cup. So when you connect a battery to it, you only need to navigate up or down to select the C Code that matches it. If you have a different battery, like an aftermarket one with more capacity, you can program it into a blank empty C Code slot on that cup, and then it will follow that cup whenever it is connected.
Grab yourself a Motorola GP340 or your regions equivalent.
Charge the battery in a factory charger, and once complete, use a known good multi-meter to measure the terminal voltage.
Now flatten the battery, and allow the C7000 and in-built C-code for that battery to charge the battery. Repeat the measurement.
You'll find that the C7000 charges the battery within acceptable limits for the chemistry, but beyond what the factory Motorola charger will do.
This "puts in" a lot of energy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, using a battery charged on a factory charger, flatten the battery using a radio, such that the radio complains that the battery is flat - Measure the terminal voltage.
Re-charge the battery on a factory charger, and then use the C7000 to perform a discharge - You'll notice that even if you attempt to edit the settings in the C-Code, you will be limited to voltages BELOW where the radio complained that the battery was flat.
This "takes out" a lot of energy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of energy in and lots of energy out = High final capacity readings = Happy management who enthusiastically allocate more money for "these great Cadex units".
The trouble is, the whole thing is a lie, and Cadex couldn't be less interested.
Go ahead - Perform the same tests, you'll see what I mean.
@@digitalradiohacker yeah that's too long for me to read. We just test batteries on radios returned for repair so we know if the battery is good or not.
@@clynesnowtail1257
It's a real shame you reacted that way because I just checked out your uploads, and you appear to be in to similar stuff to me. I also work at a major UK Moto dealer.
Cadex units don't tell you if the battery is "good" or not - That was the point of my long post.
The CEO of Cadex, Isidor Buchmann has written an excellent book about various battery chemistries: "Batteries in a Portable World." I have read it several times.
That fan is sucking the air out of the enclosure, not blowing on the resistors and heatsinks.
Edit: and it looks like there are ventilation holes in the top of the unit. Not sure if they were lined up with the fins of the heatsink.
If it’s Canadian designed and manufactured everything lines up and it’s solid.
Cool. I'd like to see it work. Thanks for the teardown. Appreciated.
I work in the Land Mobile Radio field in Canada. We have a Cadex among other type of battery analyzer. For the most common radio we have radio chassis that interface with the Cadex. When client bring a portable radio that we don't service often, we will use the spring probe to analyze the battery capacity. You program the battery rating and discharge rate and it will charge, discharge and charge again the battery to yield a mah result. Intrinsically Safe battery for example need to be discharged at a maximum rate or the safety circuit would cut it off and broke the analyze cycle.
Love your video :)
Cadex: $4000 for 4 channels
Fluke: $5000 for 1 channel.
Different target markets, I guess.
Fluke makes good stuff but priced on name and not reality.
@@The_Original_forresttrump To be fair, it's priced on earning potential. Six monthly testing and reporting on $200 000 FLA batteries in the field is probably quite high margin.
Should've taken it apart twice. Just to show it's not a Fluke. (nod to LPL :) )
The resistors are located good. The fan is not blowing. When it works is suction, you need them close as it will lose efficiency much faster with the distance.
Yup, there’s a big ass arrow on the fan. But I’m guessing Dave missed it, as per usual I was screaming at the monitor. Take it Ev ;-)
Amazing all the tech we never hear about.
Always fascinating, to see what is available to companies who manufacture.
Note how the air gets sucked out around the resistors... A thermal camera view of that part would be nice...
Your cooling solution analysis would have been right if the fan was blowing, but it isn't and it's sucking the heat out with turbulent localised flow and does make sense.....cheers. (edit) That's not fair ! the black and white photo's you showed were not changes to the device you have, they are completely different engineering solutions with what look like bought in parts with there own cooling requirements !.....cheers.
Air flow not a fail. Look at the fan direction and the condition of the resistors. Fan is set as an inducer.
Nope, it's bad, you don't force 90deg bends in air flow by staggering them.
Correct. the fan is set to "suck" not "blow". As far as the staggered design, that is actually correct, look at HVAC and other devices. They stagger them so the air hits all 4 sides and not just the 2 sides in the air flow. Air is just like electric, it will take the path of least resistance. Last off, those are the most hot components in the unit, they are set at the end of the heat extraction, right where it needs to be. Plus once the cover is replaced the air will be forced through those resistors.
Already learned a couple years ago, Dave will never admit when he is wrong. I still love and watch him though
Hi, Dave, good content like every time, I found it pleasantly funny when you explained the resistance configuration and the air flow, even though you can clearly see the direction on the fan. All the best and you're the best. Greetings from Serbia
Haha nice catch!
So this is CADEX's older model, the C7000. Their most Current model is C7400 and C7400ER (Extended Range, ie Higher voltage battery voltage capability.) Our Fire Department uses 5 C7400's and 2 C7400ER's to maintain and test almost 800 batteries. Cadex was developing a newer, more Advanced "D" Series analyzer, but that stalled, back in 2016? Regardless they are great machines, they likely save our Fire Department somewhere in the order of $35,000 per year in battery replacement costs, and our fleet of batteries is worth close to $180,000. So they are solid units, dependable and easy to use! Thanks for the teardown from the Electronic component point of view, very interesting and informative!
Nice touch on the disassembly seal, Dave.
Hi! If you're using a computer, BATSHOP shows in the screen. You need to change the serial port configuration to printer, terminal or disabled. I've used one for 7 years and recently bought one for me. It's a really nice peace of equipment and quite accurate.
This is Dave, geeking out. In case you were wondering.
Dave ATC Frost Magnetics is close to where I live in waterloo. They are the standard for transformer production here.
It's cool to hear a familiar name. We used ATC Frost magnetics at my last job in Toronto back in the late 90's. It was good stuff and didn't give us any trouble like some big multi-national did later in my career.
Loving the "Disassembled in Australia" sticker on the back!
@10:20 those dirty stairwells hahahahahaha. Thank you for your wonderfull video's Dave. Love it!
He talks as a man of experience, from his teen years, of course. Nowadays we get more pleasure from an air duster, cleaning retro tech.
I would love to see you play with the charger.
The fan is not blowing air on the resistors, its pulling air out, you can see by the arrow on top indicating rotation direction and airflow direction
"Disassembled in Australia" LOL
Those punch down Molex connectors are so much nicer to use than the crimped ones, especially for hobbyest electronics.
The fan blows, it doesn't suck. So they prob did that to remove excess heat from that area, not necessarily to have air flow over heatsinks.
I used to use one of these in anger to do runtime testing and battery recovery for tablet computers when they'd self discharged below the safety cutoff. Very capable bit of kit
The thin twisted pair thermal sensor you saw is likely a bead thermistor rather than a thermocouple
If memory serves, the HC11 contains a multi-input ADC
That would make sense.
I use 10 of these C7400ER-C connected to a serial hub and run Cadex software on PC. The C series does up to 24 volts. Great review
Daves' Stream Of Conciousness, reporting. Btw Great tear down.
I assume the switching converters for the individual channels are of some kind of synchronous rectification type, so they can either buck into the Battery or boost out of the battery in to a shared DC bus. The Transformer delivers a voltage of some 40V DC, if you want to charge a battery, just drive the according converter to deliver current to the battery from the bus, if you want to discharge, you can deliver current from the battery boosted up to the 40V bus. Eventually the bulk capacitors on the bus will rise their voltage above a comfortable level, than you can switch on those resistors to get rid of the energy (or even charge another battery on a different channel with it)
The big advantage is, that you always have to deal with that same somewhat 40V, regardless of the battery voltage. Imagine discharging a 24V Pack Vs. discharging a single 1,2V NiMh Cell both with 1A. One would require a 24 ohm resistor, the other a 1,2 ohm. If you can’t make it perfect, make it adjustable.
The placement of the power resistors is clever in some way that these are the components that care the least if they get warm, so they can be in the path of the already warm air just before it is blown out by the fan.
Love that huge board.
BOS was Motorola speak for "Battery Optimazation System". The Cadex C7000 was also available in a Motorola badged version.
Hey Dave - how's life going in Orwell's 1984? I hope you come out of it okay buddy.
FAN is blowing the air out of the unit..
FAN is Exhausting the hot air out of the unit not IN
Yes, but the air still has to snake the path through the staggered resistors, it's bad design.
I repair and calibrate these!
Nice to know they repair them! Do you still do these old original C7000 model?
@@EEVblog I do third party repair. They do not approve, but I do it any way! That one is quite old, I have only worked on 2 of those
@@garbleduser Time to send Dave the service info them, along with the software for this old version.
I finally did it for just that reason. I got a small air compressor with an air dryer on it in my basement. Ran me a quick connect hose up through my cold air return. Now when I got something on the bench that has actually never been previously tampered with and full of dust, I take it out on my front porch and blow it out good. I like how you just do it in the stairwell. Let the night cleanup deal with it.😆
nice and informative, Dave. Keep doing it :)
I used this device when I worked at the Samsung ASC, checked the batteries of mobile phones, mainly checked the internal resistance, capacity, based on the readings of the device, they made a decision to replace the battery.
The pins themselves are probably coaxial to get the Kelvin connection with the tiny tip-top pin for volts and the outer pin for current.
Yes the outer shield would be for the current.
Wow, didn't realize they were local. I drive by on the east-west every day
Before I even get to the full on teardown I'm looking at those DC barrel jacks and immediately want to say there's 4-wire sensing going on there, let's see...
Yep I got it in one.
We Still use these at work.
Fan is setup in exhaust not intake. Take a look back at the footage, denotation of fan spin direction and airflow direction are right there. Negative pressure system will suck air through the case where ever it can and then find it's way out the exhaust fan. Angle of airflow has nothing to do with negative air pressure transfer through the case. Bernoulli pressure principle thermodynamics are being used, not aerodynamics for thermal transfer. Everything prior to the entrypoint of air on the outside of the case is of a higher static pressure than that of inside the case. The air/colder air is drawn into the case from any entry point, the majority of heat is expelled from the high pressure gradient of the fan. It's not efficient with one singular fan, but the principle is sound.
What a nice little Easter egg.
Does the confused Dave head thumbnail actually make a difference for something like a teardown video? At least there isn't annoying overlay background music yet. (Hey wait! The thumbnail is missing an arrow...) Love you Dave :)
It's what I had. It was either that or a facepalm or surprised face.
I have one of their machines for testing 18650 Lithium batteries bundled with the Cadex Battery Shop program.
I think the fan only needs to cool the resistors. Did you measure how hot the heatsinks become ?
The arrow on the fan shows it's pulling air through not pushing air in.
We have one at work.
wait.. its not another scilliscope teardown...Dave must be sick! :P
youre right Dave...it is an interesting bit of gear
The layout for the C7000 was done using some obscure Australian software called Protel 😉
There's a 4052 mux smack bang in the middle of the board (U17). Classic precursor to an ADC?
12:25 i wonder why there's a 36 pin IDE connector on that board... spinning program storage? adtnl. RS interface? terminal hookup? who knows.
Proof that Dave likes a nice swinging Chassis at about 12:00 ;)
It may need the software to actually coordinate charge/discharge/tests, if it was never meant to function without detailed reporting of battery health.
Canadian viewer shout-out reply: G'day eh!
Atc frost from Oakville Ontario and open at 8am est tomorrow
That thing looks terrifying
I would like to see you play with your new thingy on the other channel !
Try putting a oscilloscope probe on the positive terminal while charging - its a crazy switch mode waveform algorithm porn
So not constant current?
@@EEVblog Both (in case of Li and SLA) ...but using duty cycle control of the pulse algorithm. You should check the charge voltage on a scope.......its trippy
@@dieboodskapper From your comment, I am guessing that they are using rather high voltage pulses to charge the battery and counting upon the battery to absorb the pulse and pull the voltage back down?
@@ethanpoole3443 Yes duty cycle controlled pulses of programmable variants depending on the "C" rate selected. This algorithm was developed mainly for NiCad, Nimh and SLA batteries that could tolerate the high charge/discharge duty cycle controlled pulses. However with modern day Lithium based secondary chemistries this type of analytic pulsed algorithms does not work so well anymore because of the nature of the battery protection circuity hiding the true electrochemical characteristics of the battery and because of this the C7000s ability to analyze Lithium based batteries becomes mute.
10:20 - I'm sure there's a Zappa song in there somewhere.
I'm from Thailand, EEVBlog make clip Test VHF Analog TV transmitter please
Dang those probe thingy can be used to make some strong ozone generators!!
Hi from Canada
If only Batteriser knew about this kind of test equipment, they could have found out that their product is crap
The fan blows out, not in - notice the arrows on it. Doesn't do much to improve the airflow, in fact I'd expect it to be even worse ;)
I can't see which part of this thing tests how high the batteries bounce...
I’ve often wondered if a company from a certain country gets it’s PCBs made and populated from another country would they state made in there country on the PCB or were the PCB was made and populated? 🤔
@4:00 Made in Canada, Disassembled in Australia.. 😂👍
Hello from Canada, eh!
I have at least oneof those (maybe two) that came with motorola handheld talikes adapters, the adaptaters works only for the intrisicaly safe 900/2000 series handhelds, I have two others that are more dumb (6 LCDs panels and swapable adaptors, but they are more bulky)
I want one. Custom lipo cell builder. It would be nice to analyze them properly before I use them
Sorry! How to rejuvenate batteries? It's the same like some toyota hybrid ''specialists' are doing? Is that any way to ''wake'' up a ruined NiMh battery?
fn 9 to get out of bat shop mode
Didn't work :-(
18:41 that fuse is a bit dusty, were you afraid it would blow in the stairwell? 🤣
I thought bat shops were common in australia, why doesn't Dave have any spare bats around
I'm new to electronic and electric engineering, but what's the purpose of the large transformer in the battery analyzer? Like where does it transfer electrical energy to?
it's for charging the battery
old style stepdown and 60hz rectification
@@MuhammadHanif-bx4pb Ah makes sense, thanks!
Fan is a blower, not a sucker
It's all good as long as the blowing and sucking happens in the stairwell, apparently.
Dave, is there any chance that the ADC's and some other circuitry is on the bottom of the board??
I had a peek and there was nothing on the bottom.
You always know when a product was made in Canada. They just have that..feel.
What do you do with all the stuff you get?
Do you sell any of ur "items"?
I recently adquired a C7200, want to know how to update the firmware, but seems that you need to buy batshop software, do you know any other way ti fo it without buying that software? It doesn’t make sense to me
please make a complete break down of lithium ion battery (none of the anode cathode nonsense) explain every thing from material science to flow mechanism and all the other good stuff
The fan is is Sucking air out not blowing it in could be wrong but the arrows on the fan says it all all
doesn't the H11 or pic have an ADC ?
Now you can get most of the functionality of this, in a $30.00 RC charger.
Only superficially. Anyone can measure voltage and current and calculate that into energy and internal resistance, but I bet there's a bunch of black art battery chemistry wizardry going on in the firmware, pushing and pulling pulses of current to/from the cells and analyzing voltage curves for very specific scientific stuff that determines what's going on inside the batteries.
Only in Canada you say!
Hi guys! Got problem with batteryshop! Please help! Charchteristics graph does not reflect the real charge process, does anyone have such problem too?
we have one of these rebranded as motorola. I'm from canada!
did you try long press on the s3 button to start it