A wood working trick that would make your install super clean and would keep any excess epoxy off the surrounding rock is to take a wide piece of painter's tape and place it directly over your desired location, drill the hole through the painter's tape, clean the hole, epoxy, nail in the glue in hanger and then simply remove the tape. All excess glue would then come off with the tape. You may have to cut the painters tape to remove around the hanger, but it tears easy and shouldn't be a problem. I use this trick for face nailing trim when it's going to be puttied and stained. Tape, nail, putty, remove tape and the putty only goes into the hole and you don't have any putty in the surrounding would grain to sand off.
This is normally not a problem. If you squirt the correct amount of glue into the hole (not too much) there is little that squidges out. We usually then smooth that around the bolt at the mouth of the hole to create a fillet which helps a bit with strength. In this video he uses a putty for the fillet but the glue works great and is stronger (but does give you VERY sticky fingers - it takes weeks for the stuff to come off your skin but gloves just get too messy). One refinement is to chisel and round-file a small radius at the bottom of the mouth of the hole to accommodate the weld fillet or bend of the bolt - this allows the back of the bolt to lie flush against the rock preventing bending and work hardening (weakening) over time and helps to prevent the bolt twisting in the hole. This takes time and often just gets skipped as an additional step as it is a hassle to do. Obviously if the placement is in a bulge or on overhanging rock this won't work so is pointless doing
Great video and I really think that whatever the comments, Kenny had the merit to actually do it, and whatever small issues on display it is still orders of magnitude safer than the shitty piton. Just a few things I would have done differently. 1.Drill a bit deeper (you should not really need to hammer on the glue in to fit). 2.Drill a groove (notch) so the lower part of the eye rest buried against the rock. This will limit the shear and prevent cracking the glue if a torque is applied. 3.Screw the bolt in the natural direction of the thread to maximize the contact of the glue with all the metallic surfaces. 4.You might have used a slightly worn out or undersized drill bit for the job as I could hear some scraping while you were spinning the bolt in. Most glue manufacturers recommend a couple millimeters of clearance (0.08"). 5.Bring disposable rubber gloves so you can use your finger to get a nice finish and a good seal between the rock and the metal (and some wipes to clean your finger). You do not need to pack the orifice with anything but glue, the glue if properly spread will guarantee sealing and waterproofing. 6.Do not hammer on the eye unless you have a stainless steel hammer (better not to anyway) as you might have some carbon residues from your hammer embedded on the eye that will create a corrosion catalyst and get the stainless steel to rust locally. Once again, great job and keep up the good work. I will take a fall on this anchor feeling 100 times more confident than on the piton.
@thisisjosh89 Yes that is the case that you should pay attention to the lateral forces on the eye of the bolt and so if necessary create a notch for it. I usually look at how it sits against the rock and judge by that.. If it sits against the rock and has some feature which kind of holds it in place I will go with that. I try to avoid any additional drilling/chipping associated with the lip of the bolt hole but it is necessary sometimes. Thanks for the interest and support.
Congratulations for your great job, Mr Parker! That's the kind of job that really makes the difference. I am talk about "lives". Thank you very much for your job!
@nmonteith Thanks for the support. It's good to talk to people with experience using this stuff. I am pretty sold on the value of glue ins. They are more involved to place in some ways and make the process of re-bolting steep routes a little troublesome, but overall the benefits outweigh all this. Thanks again for the input.
Good idea sealing that hole up on the exterior. Rock will spall out over time as water creeps into the interior. This is greatly exacerbated by freeze/thaw cycles in colder climates.
I enjoyed clipping your bolts Kenny! Regarding recessing - you don't need to recess these twisted eye bolts - the amount of glue bond in a shaft that featured would make it bomber. In 'normal' ringbolts with a single shaft you would need to recess them. We have had lots of un-recessed glue-ins loosen up in Australia from sideways falls. It's a common problem and only reveals itself in the long term. We have had glue-ins like this for about 20 years in Australia and are beginning to see problems.
That is definitely a potential down side of the glue in bolts. I can only see it realistically being a problem at a particular crux bolt where people may retreat a lot by threading the rope directly through the eye of the glue in. Probably not a big deal though. Maintenance on the standard bolt/hanger setup is easier but the strength and overall longevity of the glue ins I feel outweighs that.
It is ok to retreat by threading the rope through a glue in PROVIDED the climber then abseils down (not lower off) so as to not run the rope through bolt eye wearing it out over time. Retreat like this is impossible off a hanger leading to leaver-biners and rusty shackles being left behind, which are dangerous and a pain to remove when they are rusted closed.
the diameter of the bolts is 12mm to 1/2". I use a 1/2" bit as the extra space accommodates more glue. the bolts are jim titt bolts out of germany but can be purchased in the US through Appalachian Mt Guides
Is bolting routes a job ? Or is it just random climbers over years? For example... there’s nobody that works for Yosemite who’s job it is to maintain and bolt climbing routes is there??
@ab0z No new bolts isn't really the ban, you can apply for and receive a special use permit to place a bolt on a new route. You just have to apply. The ban is more in place to stop people from going outside the management plan to place bolts.
@ab0z No worries! Check out the video on "Gun Control 5.13c at Beauty Mountain" It touches on the permitting process and how that keeps the balance of bolts and natural protection at the New. Much love to Kenny Parker, all the people at Waterstone, and Jim Taylor for all their work in the Gorge. There's a decent chance those glue-ins are local made by Jim. I can't say for sure but I do know he makes twist style glue-ins like that.
Technically you're not supposed to use a hammer to hammer the bolt in without the special tool that the manufacturer provides, because there is risk of metal bits from the hammer getting impregnated in the metal of the bolt, increasing potential for galvanic corrosion of the bolt . But really that is mainly a consideration in highly-corrosive environments (such as near the ocean, etc).
+cashmab I know what you're saying but at the same time with glue ins you're putting a lot less force on them than with a mechanical RAWL style bolt. The RAWL bolts rely on being an interference fit in the first place (before they're cranked down) so they have to be pounded in pretty hard, which isn't the case with glue ins so the odds of chipping any anodising etc probably much lower. Although you could buy the special tool I'm sure an old fashioned wooden mallet is probably cheaper, and being softer than the bolt, won't chip it at all. Or you could use a rubber mallet or if you're not overly paranoid then maybe a brass hammer would work, dunno.
A stainless hammer would be fine. I got mine from china for $35 + shipping. Then I hammered a ton of stainless gear in in non critical areas - 6 months later no corrosion on the strike marks, so Im pretty sure it's actually stainless :) And no, all environs with rain have to worry about this problem actually. Europe has semi-standardized on Stainless 316 it seems, where as north america seems to be ok with Stainless 304. Titanium in sea cliffs is de jure though for sure. But SCC (stress corrosion cracking) can happen anywhere there's runoff, minerals like Ca and Mg and especially elevated temperatures. Here in Southern Ontario we do have seepage lines (look for the black on the rock...) that seeps right over bolts baking in the sun. Wet + hot = corrosion.
Yes, I was not implying that only seaside environments can be highly corrosive (hence the "such as" and the "etc"). Corrosion (and even SCC) can occur anywhere the conditions are right, particularly high temps, low or fluctuating humidity, high solute loads (e.g., magnesium rich rock combined with acidified groundwater), etc. In fact, stainless has the potential to corrode just about anywhere -- the main consideration though is the rate at which it corrodes to the tipping point of becoming a safety issue. Some environments will cause very gradual corrosion (hundreds of years), others will cause very rapid corrosion (a couple years or less).
We should be using 304 here, but 316 seems to be inordinately expensive. Coupled with a lack of official bolting programs or any sort of impetus to organize like such (short of some of the leaders in RRG and the like), probably due to fear of litigation (even in Canada), there's not enough cash around in ad-hoc rebolting efforts (mostly from bolters' own pockets like mine) to get to 316. I'd do everything as a Ti waveguide or equiv gluein and leave it for 500 years, but at this point I think the best i might be able to do is leave a plastic laminated tag with a bitcoin address on it lol.
No really they just get gunged up and, as you can't feel the gunge on your fingers, this ends up all over everything. Bare fingers are best although getting the glue off them after is another story.
sturdier latex/nitrile gloves and wipes or disposable latex/nitrile gloves! no 'gunged up' and no problems getting glue off your fingers. never had a problem getting 'gunge' all over everything...
Hilti was a massive waste. There are many other manufacturers of tools for drilling into any type of rock that are a fifth of the price with similar warranties and reliability. I for one would not support wastful spending. Just my opinion though.
Hearing pro not really required. BUT some Hilti adhesives WILL permanently blind you if you get it in your eyes (it's happened), I'm not usually one for pedantic safety but seriously, wear glasses with this stuff! When you tap the bolt in any air pockets can throw the adhesive back at you.
Thanks. In warmer weather the glue will set up pretty quick and be climbable within a few hours, but ideally the next day would be better. Water, freeze, thaw, etc. have no effect on the glue. Once it sets up it is often stronger than the rock. But temperature is the biggest factor in set up time so in cooler weather best to wait until the next day to climb on them.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
A wood working trick that would make your install super clean and would keep any excess epoxy off the surrounding rock is to take a wide piece of painter's tape and place it directly over your desired location, drill the hole through the painter's tape, clean the hole, epoxy, nail in the glue in hanger and then simply remove the tape. All excess glue would then come off with the tape. You may have to cut the painters tape to remove around the hanger, but it tears easy and shouldn't be a problem.
I use this trick for face nailing trim when it's going to be puttied and stained. Tape, nail, putty, remove tape and the putty only goes into the hole and you don't have any putty in the surrounding would grain to sand off.
This is normally not a problem. If you squirt the correct amount of glue into the hole (not too much) there is little that squidges out. We usually then smooth that around the bolt at the mouth of the hole to create a fillet which helps a bit with strength. In this video he uses a putty for the fillet but the glue works great and is stronger (but does give you VERY sticky fingers - it takes weeks for the stuff to come off your skin but gloves just get too messy). One refinement is to chisel and round-file a small radius at the bottom of the mouth of the hole to accommodate the weld fillet or bend of the bolt - this allows the back of the bolt to lie flush against the rock preventing bending and work hardening (weakening) over time and helps to prevent the bolt twisting in the hole. This takes time and often just gets skipped as an additional step as it is a hassle to do. Obviously if the placement is in a bulge or on overhanging rock this won't work so is pointless doing
Great video and I really think that whatever the comments, Kenny had the merit to actually do it, and whatever small issues on display it is still orders of magnitude safer than the shitty piton.
Just a few things I would have done differently.
1.Drill a bit deeper (you should not really need to hammer on the glue in to fit).
2.Drill a groove (notch) so the lower part of the eye rest buried against the rock.
This will limit the shear and prevent cracking the glue if a torque is applied.
3.Screw the bolt in the natural direction of the thread to maximize the contact of the glue with all the metallic surfaces.
4.You might have used a slightly worn out or undersized drill bit for the job as I could hear some scraping while you were spinning the bolt in.
Most glue manufacturers recommend a couple millimeters of clearance (0.08").
5.Bring disposable rubber gloves so you can use your finger to get a nice finish and a good seal between the rock and the metal (and some wipes to clean your finger).
You do not need to pack the orifice with anything but glue, the glue if properly spread will guarantee sealing and waterproofing.
6.Do not hammer on the eye unless you have a stainless steel hammer (better not to anyway) as you might have some carbon residues from your hammer embedded on the eye that will create a corrosion catalyst and get the stainless steel to rust locally.
Once again, great job and keep up the good work.
I will take a fall on this anchor feeling 100 times more confident than on the piton.
@thisisjosh89 Yes that is the case that you should pay attention to the lateral forces on the eye of the bolt and so if necessary create a notch for it. I usually look at how it sits against the rock and judge by that.. If it sits against the rock and has some feature which kind of holds it in place I will go with that. I try to avoid any additional drilling/chipping associated with the lip of the bolt hole but it is necessary sometimes.
Thanks for the interest and support.
Congratulations for your great job, Mr Parker! That's the kind of job that really makes the difference. I am talk about "lives". Thank you very much for your job!
I've always loved the New River Gorge. Beautiful country out there
I don't even climb but found this very satisfying.
@nmonteith Thanks for the support. It's good to talk to people with experience using this stuff. I am pretty sold on the value of glue ins. They are more involved to place in some ways and make the process of re-bolting steep routes a little troublesome, but overall the benefits outweigh all this. Thanks again for the input.
somebody farted a 46 seconds
Good idea sealing that hole up on the exterior. Rock will spall out over time as water creeps into the interior. This is greatly exacerbated by freeze/thaw cycles in colder climates.
I enjoyed clipping your bolts Kenny! Regarding recessing - you don't need to recess these twisted eye bolts - the amount of glue bond in a shaft that featured would make it bomber. In 'normal' ringbolts with a single shaft you would need to recess them. We have had lots of un-recessed glue-ins loosen up in Australia from sideways falls. It's a common problem and only reveals itself in the long term. We have had glue-ins like this for about 20 years in Australia and are beginning to see problems.
you didn't bore a notch for the bolt's eye
Good video! How long does that glue have to cure to reach max strength? How long before the route can be climbed? How is it affected by freeze/thaw?
That is definitely a potential down side of the glue in bolts. I can only see it realistically being a problem at a particular crux bolt where people may retreat a lot by threading the rope directly through the eye of the glue in. Probably not a big deal though. Maintenance on the standard bolt/hanger setup is easier but the strength and overall longevity of the glue ins I feel outweighs that.
It is ok to retreat by threading the rope through a glue in PROVIDED the climber then abseils down (not lower off) so as to not run the rope through bolt eye wearing it out over time. Retreat like this is impossible off a hanger leading to leaver-biners and rusty shackles being left behind, which are dangerous and a pain to remove when they are rusted closed.
shouldn't he have angled his drill slightly downward? ..
What kind of glue is that?
Never seen a bolt put in before, a nice clear video.
Still going to stick to trad as sports not big in the uk
I wonder what the rating for that pin ? Compared to a bolt .
Are glue-in bolts superior? Are there any trade offs?
you rotated it against the direction of its threads, aint it wrong?
the diameter of the bolts is 12mm to 1/2". I use a 1/2" bit as the extra space accommodates more glue. the bolts are jim titt bolts out of germany but can be purchased in the US through Appalachian Mt Guides
Thank you!
How long will the new bolt take to cure? 24 hours until you could climb, clip it, and potentially fall on it? Seems pretty sweet!
It depends on the glue and ambient temperature, it can be anywhere between 5 a 72H.
Cool this kind of work is appreciated.
Great job,keep it up.
Is bolting routes a job ? Or is it just random climbers over years?
For example... there’s nobody that works for Yosemite who’s job it is to maintain and bolt climbing routes is there??
@ab0z No new bolts isn't really the ban, you can apply for and receive a special use permit to place a bolt on a new route. You just have to apply. The ban is more in place to stop people from going outside the management plan to place bolts.
@ab0z No worries! Check out the video on "Gun Control 5.13c at Beauty Mountain" It touches on the permitting process and how that keeps the balance of bolts and natural protection at the New. Much love to Kenny Parker, all the people at Waterstone, and Jim Taylor for all their work in the Gorge. There's a decent chance those glue-ins are local made by Jim. I can't say for sure but I do know he makes twist style glue-ins like that.
Technically you're not supposed to use a hammer to hammer the bolt in without the special tool that the manufacturer provides, because there is risk of metal bits from the hammer getting impregnated in the metal of the bolt, increasing potential for galvanic corrosion of the bolt . But really that is mainly a consideration in highly-corrosive environments (such as near the ocean, etc).
+cashmab I know what you're saying but at the same time with glue ins you're putting a lot less force on them than with a mechanical RAWL style bolt. The RAWL bolts rely on being an interference fit in the first place (before they're cranked down) so they have to be pounded in pretty hard, which isn't the case with glue ins so the odds of chipping any anodising etc probably much lower. Although you could buy the special tool I'm sure an old fashioned wooden mallet is probably cheaper, and being softer than the bolt, won't chip it at all. Or you could use a rubber mallet or if you're not overly paranoid then maybe a brass hammer would work, dunno.
A stainless hammer would be fine. I got mine from china for $35 + shipping. Then I hammered a ton of stainless gear in in non critical areas - 6 months later no corrosion on the strike marks, so Im pretty sure it's actually stainless :)
And no, all environs with rain have to worry about this problem actually. Europe has semi-standardized on Stainless 316 it seems, where as north america seems to be ok with Stainless 304. Titanium in sea cliffs is de jure though for sure. But SCC (stress corrosion cracking) can happen anywhere there's runoff, minerals like Ca and Mg and especially elevated temperatures. Here in Southern Ontario we do have seepage lines (look for the black on the rock...) that seeps right over bolts baking in the sun. Wet + hot = corrosion.
Yes, I was not implying that only seaside environments can be highly corrosive (hence the "such as" and the "etc"). Corrosion (and even SCC) can occur anywhere the conditions are right, particularly high temps, low or fluctuating humidity, high solute loads (e.g., magnesium rich rock combined with acidified groundwater), etc. In fact, stainless has the potential to corrode just about anywhere -- the main consideration though is the rate at which it corrodes to the tipping point of becoming a safety issue. Some environments will cause very gradual corrosion (hundreds of years), others will cause very rapid corrosion (a couple years or less).
We should be using 304 here, but 316 seems to be inordinately expensive. Coupled with a lack of official bolting programs or any sort of impetus to organize like such (short of some of the leaders in RRG and the like), probably due to fear of litigation (even in Canada), there's not enough cash around in ad-hoc rebolting efforts (mostly from bolters' own pockets like mine) to get to 316.
I'd do everything as a Ti waveguide or equiv gluein and leave it for 500 years, but at this point I think the best i might be able to do is leave a plastic laminated tag with a bitcoin address on it lol.
Ha, ha, funny guy. "It'll be there for centuries". ha ha, I like his sense of humor...
❤❤❤
I was scared of "glued anchors"... I am not anymore.
bet that rags seen more white stains than my bed sheets great
vid by the way
well looked.
Doing god's work
I thought the manufacturer wants the bolt with the weld up.
Thats debatable
0:46 and 1:08 he farts...
psht, i've taken whips on rustier pitons than that!
Nice & thanks
Be there for centuries....
seems like some nylon/latex/etc. gloves would help
No really they just get gunged up and, as you can't feel the gunge on your fingers, this ends up all over everything. Bare fingers are best although getting the glue off them after is another story.
sturdier latex/nitrile gloves and wipes or disposable latex/nitrile gloves! no 'gunged up' and no problems getting glue off your fingers. never had a problem getting 'gunge' all over everything...
Thanks this video :)
Someone had a burrito
Hilti was a massive waste. There are many other manufacturers of tools for drilling into any type of rock that are a fifth of the price with similar warranties and reliability. I for one would not support wastful spending. Just my opinion though.
gentaglia
glue in p bolts should be countersunk
So u trust a 200lb man on some super glue ....
No eye protection and no hearing protection? Come on, guy, set a good example for the young people.
hearing protection? lol jesus.
You a bitch
Hearing pro not really required. BUT some Hilti adhesives WILL permanently blind you if you get it in your eyes (it's happened), I'm not usually one for pedantic safety but seriously, wear glasses with this stuff! When you tap the bolt in any air pockets can throw the adhesive back at you.
Bad made
Thanks. In warmer weather the glue will set up pretty quick and be climbable within a few hours, but ideally the next day would be better. Water, freeze, thaw, etc. have no effect on the glue. Once it sets up it is often stronger than the rock. But temperature is the biggest factor in set up time so in cooler weather best to wait until the next day to climb on them.