There is a theme with the weapon class, one weapon of sorrow for each primary weapon type. Necrochasm is an auto rifle, Thorn is a hand cannon, bad juju is a pulse rifle, and touch of malice is a scout rifle.
that bad juju was taken to xur who infused the weapon without warning with an unspecified magic. the weapon became "heavier" with each kill. it clearly was feeding off of it's kills. and the hunger is it returning ammo on kills.
In Destiny 2 we obtain an enhanced version of Bad Juju which we have to venture into the ascendant realm to obtain. In the process we feed it the essence of defeated taken. D2 Bad Juju has everlasting green flames spewing from it's barrel and now makes strange breathing and hissing sounds. This version of the Bad Juju is indeed a weapon of sorrow. The Deathbringer can also be considered a weapon of sorrow as it is made from the corpse of a deathsinger. A weapon literally built from the parts of the hive themselves.
I agree with you. on necro, touch, thorn and bad juju. with black spindle and invective we have no way of knowing. but when it comes to the exotic swords, they are not weapons of sorrow. weapons of sorrow are weapons that are tainted by the darkness of the hive and fall from the light. the swords are forged in darkness meaning they are already dark weapons, and in the quest you have to cleanse it of its darkness in order to turn it exotic. meaning the swords are not weapons of sorrow. so because it's flipped for the exotic swords, I guess you could say they're weapons of joy????
brennan Kelso I didn't say that all weapons with green bullets are weapons of sorrow. only that all weapons of sorrow have green bullets. also, which ones? i know none of the special or heavy weapons do, but its been almost a year since i used a kings fall primary.
What would be real cool is that in destiny 2 if you could do something or make a choice during a scripted event to start worshipping the darkness and the more corrupted you become, the more decayed and dark you look, and as a consequence of this you couldn't go into the city and got access to a new social space and your subclasses got replaced with more evil ones that take power from the darkness
Nice video. I remember all the debate that went into the ffc chat for weapons of sorrow. We were constantly throwing ideas back and forth trying to come up with the best set of rules for a weapon of sorrow. You did a great job summing it up. In the end we settled with the fact that other hive rituals could also be able to augment the weapons further.
Don't forget Murmur, the legendary fusion rifle given by Eris. It technically classifies as a 'Weapon of Sorrow' since it meets 3 of the criteria for certain. As for it being hungry, I'm not quite certain, but it was a guardian weapon, it was altered by hive sorcery, and it is implied that it does influence the wielder in some way.
Let's look at the facts: -It was a normal fusion rifle, augmented by Eris Morn with Hive power (apparently) -Line reads "Take them back with Fire and Lightning". This may be some kind of hunger, to take the information back from the Hive I don't know tho, it's just a theory. Your thoughts?
What about Dreadfang? I know it's a Legendary, but it's literally a Taken blade. It was not only Taken but is also a fundemental symbol of the Sword Logic in a literal sense. Same, I guess for Stolen Will, too.
Invective. I’d love to see more Weapons of Sorrow! Not sure why I’m so fascinated with enemy armaments, nor why these ones specifically, but I feel drawn to them for some reason or another
In the grimoire it talks about how Dredgen Yor goes into the Hellmouth before he was corrupted, when an onslaught f thrall came for him he ran out of ammo from his rifle, and he swung it not the crowd f thrall, later maybe the hive took it and turned it into a weapon of sorrow known as the nechrocasm, just like the thorn was called the rose before Dredgen Yor was corrupt.
If I am not mistaken at the end of the Taken King campaign, the cutscene with Eris Morn shows her picking up a stone from Oryx's sword. Then that stone is used along with Shaxx in order to create the sword. And it could be argued that the requirement to get the elemental kills could be to feed the hunger of the stone for the sword and the materials are to give the sword its element.
nice thought, I did not think of Dreadfang. I would say the taken weapons and armour are not weapons of sorrows because Variks/Petra make them in the PoE. Have a look at my taken gaurdian video and see what you think
+Stanley I'm pretty sure the taken armor was created by Petra and variks in the Prison of Elders as a form of experiment, I think the "Can we trust Variks" lore video goes into greater depths about the process as well as the speculated true purpose of the Prison of Elders.
Invective. I enjoy the worded link between the wyrms and the weapons of sorrow. You use the possibility of an ascendant hive as that possible middle man via its death. I just thought that was interesting, the weapon's hunger is what brought such a thing to my attention. Guardians are already influenced by the wyrms.
It was said by Bungie that some of the ornaments have special effects on them, like the gold and black Hawkmoon. So maybe (lore wise) Ikora Rey went back and augmented the Invective, and it could possibly have a "Weapons of Sorrow"-like effect on it too (like the other ones). Or possibly it was built to counter the Hive and/or the WoS. Looking up the names of the ornaments yield interesting results too, as I have looked up the "Carrion" ornament for Hawkmoon, and this came up: carrion [kar-ee-uh n] noun 1. dead and putrefying flesh. 2. rottenness; anything vile. Number 1 sounds about right, as a forum post recently stated that that particular ornament looked like a Hawkmoon reverting back to it's original form as an Eyasluna. So in theory, that's Hawkmoon dying. Here's what I got for "Iconoclast": iconoclast /aɪˈkɒnəˌklæst/ noun 1. a person who attacks established or traditional concepts, principles, laws, etc 2. a destroyer of religious images or sacred objects an adherent of the heretical movement within the Greek Orthodox Church from 725 to 842 ad, which aimed at the destruction of icons and religious images Number 1 and 2 are both likely candidates. Take from that what you will, it could mean nothing at all, but Bungie has been known to selectively provide deeper meaning and symbolism behind how they name things. I'm a huge fan of that part of the lore, "The Weapons of Sorrow", and I'd love it if they delved deeper or revealed more of them. It's also interesting that you found that symbol on it, because I had totally missed that, so thank you.
The swords, I believe were potential weapons of sorrow that we guardians saved. The primary shard above the hilt comes from Oryx' sword, a weapon that slayed millions for the Darkness. It is a weapon imbued with Hive magic, it hungers for death (based on the hunger of the worms) and it influenced the wielder (Oryx) to continue killing (sword logic). When we begin the quest, it is evil. The hadium flakes we use to forge the blade exist only on the Dreadnaught. They take on the power of their surroundings... so the medal of our sword is dark. Our quest to Hone the Edge has us slay enemies and use our abilities to imbue the weapon with light. We seek to eradicate the darkness in it, and eventually we do so. Our legendary blade eventually becomes an exotic one (evolution). In order to do so, we slay many ascendant or high level hive (Blade of Oryx, the wardens in the sunless cell, Alak-Hul) which I believe makes the blade far stronger (soul of an ascendant hive?). It becomes a weapon of light, a guardians weapon. I believe that is pretty convincing evidence that they are at least related to weapons of sorrow.
Black spindle was made by the death singers. It's a sniper rifle of human / guardian style but created by hive wizards. I think that definitely qualifies for a weapon of sorrow. It's not specified, but I believe the weapon is designed to feast on the suffering of foes, thus the line that ends the grimoire card and the explanation on the weapon itself.
+Myelin Games hey do you think it's possible that lord Saladin thought the other lords died? But they were just taken over by Siva like the fallen have? It's possible right? XD
Evan Lichens the video says that the criterion for a weapon of sorrow 1- must start as a human weapon 2- must be enhanced by hive mechanisms by this logic, the swords do not belong to this criteria as they were hive to start off with
"Rasputin has such a big setup. He's got a sekrit bunk3r, space weapons. I live in your backpack." Only from Nolanbot would we hear this. Myelin we need a Destiny joke!
What about Red Death? I heard that it was one. The ornament White Witch points to a hive connection. Killing to gain health points to a "hunger" of sorts. And it would complete the primary weapon circle (i.e., hand cannon, auto, scout, pulse).
Hey I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning but... The definition of mythoclast is: a destroyer or debunked of myths, and basically the entire army of the box is based off of mythological beings, maybe in a way you could connect the weapons of sorrow with the mythoclast. I was just shooting an idea
also black spindle can be considered a weapon of sorrow, not really due to the lore behind it but its perk really indicates a version of the sword logic, you kill and you get more power, in that case its perk where all three shots are precision hits gives you more amo. not forcing you to reload the weapon, and there for granting you more power
I have a theory about TFC and TLW I personally believe that if they were brothers and Dredgen Yor was born first and Jaren was born second, that the hand cannons are named after them. Dredgen is often referred to as a curse also (if) he was the first born The First Curse is a fitting name for the hand cannon. Where as Jaren was born second he was the last, therefore The Last Word was his gun. As Dredgen fell deeper and deeper into the darkness he found A Handcannon named Rose. Thorn in its early stages of 'evolution' which needed death and anger to feed on as it controlled Dredgen. As he evolved it his fondness of the Hand Cannon became more of an obsession with it as he talks about his gun as though it is a person that he cares for unfathomably. As his fondness grows for Thorn he discards The First Curse in favour for Thorn.
+The Great JammyFizzle they are renounced as twin hand cannons...I personally believe that rather than having rose all the way it was something he found. Thorn in an early stage of 'evolution' as it is theorised that the weapons of sorry evolve from stage to stage. thats just my personal opinion and that considering Dredgen is referred to as a curse and first born, the hand cannons name fits too well for it to be a coincidence but i might be delusional. its just what i percieve to make more sense thats all.
Yeah, I have always wondered about First Curse for those same reasons. I even speculated on the exact same theory when first curse was released, that dredgen yor and jaren ward were twins. I think the theory very plausible, i just need more info!! lol
I personally believe that Rose and the First Curse are one and the same. Banshee did mention the First Curse was forgotten, so it would make sense that when we discovered it nobody knew it's true name.
Hey Myelin, i wanted to pass this idea by you. When u made the video on the book of sorrow, u mentioned that Quria Blade Transform was able to deduce the sword logic and use it to the benefit of the Vex. I started thinking to myself, why cant we guardians do the same thing with our weapons when we enter the Dreadnought? I may have answered my own question with this, but i believe that the ability to infuse that guardians gained with the Taken King (correct me if im wrong) is a product of the Hive Sword Logic. What are ur thoughts on this?
grasp of malok looks like a weapon of sorrow also black spindle is a weapon of sorrow as somewhere it says that when crota fashioned the weapon it merely wiped the victim from existence unlike the spindle which shackled them to infinite torment
Weapons of Sorrow basically must incorporate elements of the Human art of war plus the Hive's Sword Logic. Black Spindle and Black Hammer are both weapons of sorrow. In the grimmoir the sisters talk about the hammers crude nature and then mention their spindle. It's clearly a fusion of hive and mankind and they both have the Worms hunger. I'd argue that using the Weapons of Sorrow feed the Worm and the the ex-guardian who will become the next hive god.
I would argue that hive worms have been integrated into the weapons of sorrow. It would explain why hive sorcery is needed and it explains the hunger and influence on guardians.
I agree with the Bad Juju, Necrochasm, Thorn and Touch of Malice being Weapons of Sorrow. I would also like to say that there are plenty of evidence to support that swords built from the Willbreaker are WoS. This topic is pretty.. dark. For those of us who have personally experienced trauma (like losing loved ones whether from death or distance) in their life or suffer from mental disorders like depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc., the concept of the Weapons of Sorrow is not that hard to comprehend. They're weapons that are linked to the weilder's corruption, and what the weapons do is KEEP you corrupted by spreading it and using it to keep the corruption alive. Whether it's literal sorrow, revenge, etc., a negative emotion is always attached to a WoS which both fuels and maintains the gun and the wielder.
I would also like to point out there is 1 weapon of sorrow for each primary archetype: Auto: Necrocasm Hnadcannon: Thorn Pulse: Bad Juju Scout: Touch of Malice Coincidence?
I'll address Black Spindle, as well as the exotic swords. I want to look at Murmur too when I have the chance! So, criteria for why I believe Black Spindle could be a Weapon of Sorrow, based on your list. 1. Guardian weapon. This is the hardest to prove because it is simply speculation. I would argue that based on its design, this weapon was once a Guardian sniper that was transformed. My argument for this is comparing the KF raid weapons to the CE weapons. The CE weapons look like modified Guardian weapons. This makes sense, seeing as the moon was once a human civilization. The KF weapons look NOTHING like human weapons. Not one bit. This would also make sense, seeing as this is the first time the Dreadnaught and Oryx have ever entered Sol. I believe this sniper was forged from the weapons of the Guardians who fell under Crotas sword. 2. Changed/influenced by Hive/Darkness. The grimoire for this gun clearly speaks of the act of unraveling and weaving done by the Daughters of Oryx. The Spindle is a weapon used to bring pain to others. Obviously a Hive weapon. 3. Hunger. This is again more difficult to argue, given the lack of lore attached to the weapon. However, look at the mechanics of the weapon and compare to Bad Juju and ToM. Landing precision shots fills the magazine. Back before it was nerfed, the Black Hammer's White Nail perk REFUNDED those bullets. Regeneration of bullets for causing pain/death of an enemy, ie rewards for slaughter, to me represents hunger. 4. Influencing the user. Hmmmm. Tough to prove. I would argue that the Hunger of the weapon directly influences the user to wield the weapon in a specific way, and that it wants to feed. This is an opinion based on the mechanics, but I would say the specific perks of this weapon, combined with the grimoire, would suggest that this weapon wants it's user to inflict torment on the enemy. 5. Evolution. This gun was once the Black Hammer, referenced in the grimoire, but the Deathsingers create something more pure- the Spindle. 6. Ascendant Soul. I really have nothing for this, other than to say you must defeat a Taken ultra in order to obtain the weapon.
Black spindle should be a weapon of sorrow. At least the black hammer should be. 1) It appears to be based off of longbow synthesis. 2) It appears to be altered by the hive, but these first two are only supported by looking at the gun. 3) One could argue that it does alter the wielder with the white nail perk. Encouraging them to continually land headshot after headshot, reloading itself feeding a never ending hunger for killing. If you remember the auto reload feature originally did not pull from your reserve, the white nail perk pulled a new magazine out of thin air, hive magic?
I know that the exotic swords are not weapons of sorrow, they don't mention a hunger and they don't have the traditional black with a green glow colour scheme. However, black spindle seems to have this appearance and therefore may be a weapon of sorrow. But we will not know until we get some more information on it.
What about Murmur? The hive influenced fusion rifle from Eris in The Dark Below; the description says "The hive have learned our secrets. Take them back with fire and lightning." It seems to be a hive influenced fusion rifle, but it doesn't say anything about the weapon feeding off of the user or the kills it obtains. However, with a name like murmur it kind of seems like it may be. If anyone could possibly help shine some light or add their opinions that'd be awesome.
Hi Matt, I have a question about the weapons of sorrow. Is Kovik (the splicer priest from the new strike) weapon one of them? all the 4 of the categories you mentioned in this video applies to this weapon!
it is because the iron Lords use swords for guardian weapon oryx used it and applied sorcery to it to be able to drain and dark drinker especially because you need to satisfy it's thirst for blood
Hang on, my understanding is that Thorn was created Rose being corrupted along with Dredgen Yor, therefore the use of hive sorcery could be substituted with the weapon being corrupted along with its guardian.
Hey myelin I say the exotic swords count as weapons of sorrows. I say this because the swords and guardian weapons/frames which we use the shard of willbreaker (hive knowledge/power) to power the swords and the description for dark drinker talks about its hunger and needing be fed also the legendary versions are unsafe until we purify them with motes of light and refined hadium flakes.
I would say the swords do not classify as weapons of sorrows because it has not been forged by hive sorcery and it does not influence guardians. Also Shaxx made it clear that he wanted to bring swords back to humanity as honorable weapons of the light.
Maybe the weapons of sorrow are just weapons that do hive things in combat. The necrochasms cursed thrall explosion. The thorns wizard miasma-like effect.
what if toland made bad juju using some of the same things that were used to make thorn and necrocasym? that could be why bad juju has that green glow on the front of it and why it is a scout rifle altered into a pulse rifle
TTK Swords are not Weapons of Sorrow. It is a guardian weapon and it seems to be altered by Hive rituals, but it doesn't hunger nor Influence the guardian, as far as I know. Also, weapons from Crota's End might be some sort of Weapons of Sorrow, we just don't have much lore behind them.
Thorne did not always look like a thorn he grafted the bones from the knight that he killed to the gun so it did technically transform and it does possibly have the soul of an ascendant hive
There is a theme with the weapon class, one weapon of sorrow for each primary weapon type. Necrochasm is an auto rifle, Thorn is a hand cannon, bad juju is a pulse rifle, and touch of malice is a scout rifle.
Bad juju isn't a weapon of darkness. It was made by guardians from blueprints found in Toland's journal.
yes it is bad juju is made from hive power read the lore on toland
It's a weapon of sorrow -_-
that bad juju was taken to xur who infused the weapon without warning with an unspecified magic. the weapon became "heavier" with each kill.
it clearly was feeding off of it's kills. and the hunger is it returning ammo on kills.
In Destiny 2 we obtain an enhanced version of Bad Juju which we have to venture into the ascendant realm to obtain. In the process we feed it the essence of defeated taken.
D2 Bad Juju has everlasting green flames spewing from it's barrel and now makes strange breathing and hissing sounds. This version of the Bad Juju is indeed a weapon of sorrow.
The Deathbringer can also be considered a weapon of sorrow as it is made from the corpse of a deathsinger. A weapon literally built from the parts of the hive themselves.
We need a weapon of sorrows shotgun. It can be called the Salt Maker.
LMAO. LOL. XD XD XD!!!
you can get one by killing crota its pretty good for a year one shotgun
+brennen sux sword breaker?
+Matthew ya
+brennen sux the raid guns aren't weapons of sorrow
I agree with you. on necro, touch, thorn and bad juju. with black spindle and invective we have no way of knowing. but when it comes to the exotic swords, they are not weapons of sorrow. weapons of sorrow are weapons that are tainted by the darkness of the hive and fall from the light. the swords are forged in darkness meaning they are already dark weapons, and in the quest you have to cleanse it of its darkness in order to turn it exotic. meaning the swords are not weapons of sorrow. so because it's flipped for the exotic swords, I guess you could say they're weapons of joy????
Michael Arias spindle yes, invective no
I also nominate Shadow Price
"A precision auto rifle left behind by *Toland, the Shattered. It asks so little, and it offers so much.*"
+Stanley that is a good point
But wasn't Toland a non-guardian?
Nah, he was a Warlock.
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, Toland was part of Eris's fireteam that went into the Hellmouth.
Am i the only one who closes their eyes or starts sleeping or something while listening to this
hheehe no just you. Been told a number of times that i am like a sleeping pill. lol. Sleep is good for you I guess
*not just you
Emaaazing happens to me all the time😂
Myelin Games well it's not that what you are saying is boring. Far from it actually, you just speak in a very soothing voice XD
Myelin Games your voice is like sleeping drug but these videos are intresting
i think that it should be noted that all known weapons of sorrow shoot green bullets.
Nathan Lang That is true but that would also be saying the King's Fall weapons are weapons of sorrow too
brennan Kelso I didn't say that all weapons with green bullets are weapons of sorrow. only that all weapons of sorrow have green bullets.
also, which ones? i know none of the special or heavy weapons do, but its been almost a year since i used a kings fall primary.
What would be real cool is that in destiny 2 if you could do something or make a choice during a scripted event to start worshipping the darkness and the more corrupted you become, the more decayed and dark you look, and as a consequence of this you couldn't go into the city and got access to a new social space and your subclasses got replaced with more evil ones that take power from the darkness
This needs to be real
Nice video. I remember all the debate that went into the ffc chat for weapons of sorrow. We were constantly throwing ideas back and forth trying to come up with the best set of rules for a weapon of sorrow. You did a great job summing it up. In the end we settled with the fact that other hive rituals could also be able to augment the weapons further.
a wepon of sorry could be the gallahorn in year one because if you didn't have one you couldn't raid
Don't forget Murmur, the legendary fusion rifle given by Eris. It technically classifies as a 'Weapon of Sorrow' since it meets 3 of the criteria for certain. As for it being hungry, I'm not quite certain, but it was a guardian weapon, it was altered by hive sorcery, and it is implied that it does influence the wielder in some way.
Invective.
Thank you so much for putting the peace back in your videos Myelin, I MISSED IT SO MUCH
:)
What about Murmur?
its a fusion rife that you get for beating all the quest in dark below
Yes and no, i think the murmur is a weapon of sorrow cuz of the same dsng like the necrochasm
Let's look at the facts:
-It was a normal fusion rifle, augmented by Eris Morn with Hive power (apparently)
-Line reads "Take them back with Fire and Lightning". This may be some kind of hunger, to take the information back from the Hive
I don't know tho, it's just a theory. Your thoughts?
"Let's look at facts"
You then state that it is just a theory... Which is it? Theory or fact lmao
GloriousViking _ the "facts" are evidence it is
#1 Destiny lore master. You're fantastic man.
What about Dreadfang? I know it's a Legendary, but it's literally a Taken blade. It was not only Taken but is also a fundemental symbol of the Sword Logic in a literal sense.
Same, I guess for Stolen Will, too.
Invective.
I’d love to see more Weapons of Sorrow! Not sure why I’m so fascinated with enemy armaments, nor why these ones specifically, but I feel drawn to them for some reason or another
In the grimoire it talks about how Dredgen Yor goes into the Hellmouth before he was corrupted, when an onslaught f thrall came for him he ran out of ammo from his rifle, and he swung it not the crowd f thrall, later maybe the hive took it and turned it into a weapon of sorrow known as the nechrocasm, just like the thorn was called the rose before Dredgen Yor was corrupt.
Bad juju and touch of malice are some of my favs
If I am not mistaken at the end of the Taken King campaign, the cutscene with Eris Morn shows her picking up a stone from Oryx's sword. Then that stone is used along with Shaxx in order to create the sword. And it could be argued that the requirement to get the elemental kills could be to feed the hunger of the stone for the sword and the materials are to give the sword its element.
really need all these destiny lore vids on audio files, we are going on a roadtrip and want to listen to them all!! :)
invective^_^
If not the Exotic Swords, maybe Dreadfang?
nice thought, I did not think of Dreadfang. I would say the taken weapons and armour are not weapons of sorrows because Variks/Petra make them in the PoE. Have a look at my taken gaurdian video and see what you think
Myelin Games Fair enough. The armor is Fallen anyways.
+Stanley I'm pretty sure the taken armor was created by Petra and variks in the Prison of Elders as a form of experiment, I think the "Can we trust Variks" lore video goes into greater depths about the process as well as the speculated true purpose of the Prison of Elders.
+Kurt Ironmonger I mean the original armor, before it was Taken-ified. The Y1 PoE sets are Fallen, not Human.
Invective.
I enjoy the worded link between the wyrms and the weapons of sorrow. You use the possibility of an ascendant hive as that possible middle man via its death. I just thought that was interesting, the weapon's hunger is what brought such a thing to my attention. Guardians are already influenced by the wyrms.
I kinda wanna see some lore on jorder, skorri and felwinter. Hopefully bungie explores their character more in the ROI.
I was waiting for you to do this ever since your thorn and last word series
Aren't all of the Crota's End raid weapons Weapons of Sorrow. I remember hearing somewhere that Dredgen Yor built all of them.
It was said by Bungie that some of the ornaments have special effects on them, like the gold and black Hawkmoon. So maybe (lore wise) Ikora Rey went back and augmented the Invective, and it could possibly have a "Weapons of Sorrow"-like effect on it too (like the other ones). Or possibly it was built to counter the Hive and/or the WoS. Looking up the names of the ornaments yield interesting results too, as I have looked up the "Carrion" ornament for Hawkmoon, and this came up:
carrion
[kar-ee-uh n]
noun
1.
dead and putrefying flesh.
2.
rottenness; anything vile.
Number 1 sounds about right, as a forum post recently stated that that particular ornament looked like a Hawkmoon reverting back to it's original form as an Eyasluna. So in theory, that's Hawkmoon dying.
Here's what I got for "Iconoclast":
iconoclast
/aɪˈkɒnəˌklæst/
noun
1. a person who attacks established or traditional concepts, principles, laws, etc
2. a destroyer of religious images or sacred objects
an adherent of the heretical movement within the Greek Orthodox Church from 725 to 842 ad, which aimed at the destruction of icons and religious images
Number 1 and 2 are both likely candidates. Take from that what you will, it could mean nothing at all, but Bungie has been known to selectively provide deeper meaning and symbolism behind how they name things.
I'm a huge fan of that part of the lore, "The Weapons of Sorrow", and I'd love it if they delved deeper or revealed more of them. It's also interesting that you found that symbol on it, because I had totally missed that, so thank you.
Also, another thing they have in common, Touch of Malice included is how they shoot bullets with a greenish mist like tint around them
Love how you present your lore. You the MVP
Hey Myelin, the stream today was absolutely awesome. It was my first one, and Ill be sure its not my only one.
Also, I have all five of the infections if you would like to get them from me
sweeet man!! so much fun! just got home from work now :( think I am going to resist going online and finish some scripts
Myelin Games Alright man. Message me if you want them, my psn is Apar_Gaming
MYELIN! MYELIN! MYELIN! I think the Red Death somehow is a weapon of sorrow, because, when you ADS you can see the triangles
The swords, I believe were potential weapons of sorrow that we guardians saved. The primary shard above the hilt comes from Oryx' sword, a weapon that slayed millions for the Darkness. It is a weapon imbued with Hive magic, it hungers for death (based on the hunger of the worms) and it influenced the wielder (Oryx) to continue killing (sword logic). When we begin the quest, it is evil. The hadium flakes we use to forge the blade exist only on the Dreadnaught. They take on the power of their surroundings... so the medal of our sword is dark. Our quest to Hone the Edge has us slay enemies and use our abilities to imbue the weapon with light. We seek to eradicate the darkness in it, and eventually we do so. Our legendary blade eventually becomes an exotic one (evolution). In order to do so, we slay many ascendant or high level hive (Blade of Oryx, the wardens in the sunless cell, Alak-Hul) which I believe makes the blade far stronger (soul of an ascendant hive?). It becomes a weapon of light, a guardians weapon. I believe that is pretty convincing evidence that they are at least related to weapons of sorrow.
Black spindle was made by the death singers. It's a sniper rifle of human / guardian style but created by hive wizards. I think that definitely qualifies for a weapon of sorrow. It's not specified, but I believe the weapon is designed to feast on the suffering of foes, thus the line that ends the grimoire card and the explanation on the weapon itself.
These lore videos are great. Keep em' coming.
Invective.
I love the videos you make! Keep it up.
thanks mate!
+Myelin Games hey do you think it's possible that lord Saladin thought the other lords died? But they were just taken over by Siva like the fallen have? It's possible right? XD
Or the fallen subjected them to Siva to use against the guardians because it would be hard to kill them...
What about the taken sword we get, and the fusion rifle we got during the dark bellow?
check out my taken guardian video, I belive that the taken weapons are made by awoken in poe, so not likely influenced by hive
+Myelin Games he means the murmur
Dreadfang and Murmur. Myelin said taken weapons are made in poe (stolen will, dreadfang, etc.) but Murmur....may be a weapon of sorrow idk.
how about the exotics swords they have the heart of will breaker
Evan Lichens the video says that the criterion for a weapon of sorrow
1- must start as a human weapon
2- must be enhanced by hive mechanisms
by this logic, the swords do not belong to this criteria as they were hive to start off with
Love the vids hope you keep uploading weekly!
The Invective is honestly my favorite exotic weapon.
I was really pissed off but listening to your video/voice really calmed me down
I think The Darkness is really cool!
I enjoyed going through the Thorn quest because I felt like I was taking power from The Darkness.
👍
your lore videos are the best by far makes work go by faster
thanks mate!
Hey man nice stream I was apart of, well not the one in the morning considering how I had school, and I wanted to watch it
YES!! Thank you! I've been wanting to learn about this!
"Rasputin has such a big setup. He's got a sekrit bunk3r, space weapons. I live in your backpack." Only from Nolanbot would we hear this. Myelin we need a Destiny joke!
What about Red Death? I heard that it was one. The ornament White Witch points to a hive connection. Killing to gain health points to a "hunger" of sorts. And it would complete the primary weapon circle (i.e., hand cannon, auto, scout, pulse).
Christina Lett the pulse is bad juju
love the lore bud keep it up.
Invective.
I love your videos your voice and the lore I love closing my eyes and listening to it for some reason haha
That symbol on bad juju and Necrochasm scope is also underneath the sights on thorn
your voice is sooo calm and nice to hear :D
Nice video Myelin!
Hey I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning but... The definition of mythoclast is: a destroyer or debunked of myths, and basically the entire army of the box is based off of mythological beings, maybe in a way you could connect the weapons of sorrow with the mythoclast. I was just shooting an idea
also black spindle can be considered a weapon of sorrow, not really due to the lore behind it but its perk really indicates a version of the sword logic, you kill and you get more power, in that case its perk where all three shots are precision hits gives you more amo. not forcing you to reload the weapon, and there for granting you more power
That's too much of a stretch
Video Gamer could it be that three precision shots fed it to relieve it of its hunger? nope. that's a stretch, for sure.
Spotted you at the tower today. Great channel. Cheers
I have a theory about TFC and TLW I personally believe that if they were brothers and Dredgen Yor was born first and Jaren was born second, that the hand cannons are named after them. Dredgen is often referred to as a curse also (if) he was the first born The First Curse is a fitting name for the hand cannon. Where as Jaren was born second he was the last, therefore The Last Word was his gun. As Dredgen fell deeper and deeper into the darkness he found A Handcannon named Rose. Thorn in its early stages of 'evolution' which needed death and anger to feed on as it controlled Dredgen. As he evolved it his fondness of the Hand Cannon became more of an obsession with it as he talks about his gun as though it is a person that he cares for unfathomably. As his fondness grows for Thorn he discards The First Curse in favour for Thorn.
+The Great JammyFizzle they are renounced as twin hand cannons...I personally believe that rather than having rose all the way it was something he found. Thorn in an early stage of 'evolution' as it is theorised that the weapons of sorry evolve from stage to stage. thats just my personal opinion and that considering Dredgen is referred to as a curse and first born, the hand cannons name fits too well for it to be a coincidence but i might be delusional. its just what i percieve to make more sense thats all.
Yeah, I have always wondered about First Curse for those same reasons. I even speculated on the exact same theory when first curse was released, that dredgen yor and jaren ward were twins. I think the theory very plausible, i just need more info!! lol
I personally believe that Rose and the First Curse are one and the same. Banshee did mention the First Curse was forgotten, so it would make sense that when we discovered it nobody knew it's true name.
+Myelin Games way too many things relate for it to just be a coincidence.
k
Hey Myelin, i wanted to pass this idea by you. When u made the video on the book of sorrow, u mentioned that Quria Blade Transform was able to deduce the sword logic and use it to the benefit of the Vex. I started thinking to myself, why cant we guardians do the same thing with our weapons when we enter the Dreadnought? I may have answered my own question with this, but i believe that the ability to infuse that guardians gained with the Taken King (correct me if im wrong) is a product of the Hive Sword Logic. What are ur thoughts on this?
Invective! Keep up the awesome content!
grasp of malok looks like a weapon of sorrow also black spindle is a weapon of sorrow as somewhere it says that when crota fashioned the weapon it merely wiped the victim from existence unlike the spindle which shackled them to infinite torment
The symbols that appear on these weapons are called the dragon eye an alchemical symbol for protection
Weapons of Sorrow basically must incorporate elements of the Human art of war plus the Hive's Sword Logic.
Black Spindle and Black Hammer are both weapons of sorrow. In the grimmoir the sisters talk about the hammers crude nature and then mention their spindle. It's clearly a fusion of hive and mankind and they both have the Worms hunger. I'd argue that using the Weapons of Sorrow feed the Worm and the the ex-guardian who will become the next hive god.
loved this vid keep up the good work myelin
thanks mate!
I would argue that hive worms have been integrated into the weapons of sorrow. It would explain why hive sorcery is needed and it explains the hunger and influence on guardians.
I agree with the Bad Juju, Necrochasm, Thorn and Touch of Malice being Weapons of Sorrow. I would also like to say that there are plenty of evidence to support that swords built from the Willbreaker are WoS.
This topic is pretty.. dark. For those of us who have personally experienced trauma (like losing loved ones whether from death or distance) in their life or suffer from mental disorders like depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc., the concept of the Weapons of Sorrow is not that hard to comprehend. They're weapons that are linked to the weilder's corruption, and what the weapons do is KEEP you corrupted by spreading it and using it to keep the corruption alive. Whether it's literal sorrow, revenge, etc., a negative emotion is always attached to a WoS which both fuels and maintains the gun and the wielder.
I love your vids I hope your channel keeps growing
thanks Dave, me toooo! fingers crossed for Rise of Iron
yeah I'm super excited for it
id say toland, or maybe osiris, osiris knows all and knows more than any other gaurdian but tolad is also crazy
I would also like to point out there is 1 weapon of sorrow for each primary archetype:
Auto: Necrocasm
Hnadcannon: Thorn
Pulse: Bad Juju
Scout: Touch of Malice
Coincidence?
I'll address Black Spindle, as well as the exotic swords. I want to look at Murmur too when I have the chance!
So, criteria for why I believe Black Spindle could be a Weapon of Sorrow, based on your list. 1. Guardian weapon. This is the hardest to prove because it is simply speculation. I would argue that based on its design, this weapon was once a Guardian sniper that was transformed. My argument for this is comparing the KF raid weapons to the CE weapons. The CE weapons look like modified Guardian weapons. This makes sense, seeing as the moon was once a human civilization. The KF weapons look NOTHING like human weapons. Not one bit. This would also make sense, seeing as this is the first time the Dreadnaught and Oryx have ever entered Sol. I believe this sniper was forged from the weapons of the Guardians who fell under Crotas sword. 2. Changed/influenced by Hive/Darkness. The grimoire for this gun clearly speaks of the act of unraveling and weaving done by the Daughters of Oryx. The Spindle is a weapon used to bring pain to others. Obviously a Hive weapon. 3. Hunger. This is again more difficult to argue, given the lack of lore attached to the weapon. However, look at the mechanics of the weapon and compare to Bad Juju and ToM. Landing precision shots fills the magazine. Back before it was nerfed, the Black Hammer's White Nail perk REFUNDED those bullets. Regeneration of bullets for causing pain/death of an enemy, ie rewards for slaughter, to me represents hunger. 4. Influencing the user. Hmmmm. Tough to prove. I would argue that the Hunger of the weapon directly influences the user to wield the weapon in a specific way, and that it wants to feed. This is an opinion based on the mechanics, but I would say the specific perks of this weapon, combined with the grimoire, would suggest that this weapon wants it's user to inflict torment on the enemy. 5. Evolution. This gun was once the Black Hammer, referenced in the grimoire, but the Deathsingers create something more pure- the Spindle. 6. Ascendant Soul. I really have nothing for this, other than to say you must defeat a Taken ultra in order to obtain the weapon.
that fusion rifle the switches elemental damage...you get it from Erres not sure what the weapon description says..
Great video dude
When he said the ghost sounded delicious all i could think of was the sugary shell
Also when u mention hunger it makes me think of ahamkara
Black spindle should be a weapon of sorrow. At least the black hammer should be. 1) It appears to be based off of longbow synthesis. 2) It appears to be altered by the hive, but these first two are only supported by looking at the gun. 3) One could argue that it does alter the wielder with the white nail perk. Encouraging them to continually land headshot after headshot, reloading itself feeding a never ending hunger for killing. If you remember the auto reload feature originally did not pull from your reserve, the white nail perk pulled a new magazine out of thin air, hive magic?
We gave up Toland's Journal for a black market coupon!!!
i take it you watch destiny ghost story's to
+Troy no.... it was part of year 1 bad juju exotic bountie but he could have still watched that tho cant prove that part wrong
Yup! I greatly enjoy the Ghost Stories Podcast!!!
is so good
Well, at least we got 50% off the Shadow Price.
Invective- Keep up the great work hopefully more lore will come with Rise of Iron.:)
I know that the exotic swords are not weapons of sorrow, they don't mention a hunger and they don't have the traditional black with a green glow colour scheme. However, black spindle seems to have this appearance and therefore may be a weapon of sorrow. But we will not know until we get some more information on it.
What about Murmur? The hive influenced fusion rifle from Eris in The Dark Below; the description says "The hive have learned our secrets. Take them back with fire and lightning." It seems to be a hive influenced fusion rifle, but it doesn't say anything about the weapon feeding off of the user or the kills it obtains. However, with a name like murmur it kind of seems like it may be. If anyone could possibly help shine some light or add their opinions that'd be awesome.
I believe there are more and it's going to be a big quest to collect them before an evil guardian gets them
Invective
Invective isn't
Invective was Ikora's personal shotgun
Was there for the livestream the other day about this XD
yeah I spoke in the livestream about the weapons of sorrrow :)
Bad Juju is a Weapon of Sorrow. People keep forgetting that one...
Hi Matt, I have a question about the weapons of sorrow. Is Kovik (the splicer priest from the new strike) weapon one of them? all the 4 of the categories you mentioned in this video applies to this weapon!
it is because the iron Lords use swords for guardian weapon oryx used it and applied sorcery to it to be able to drain and dark drinker especially because you need to satisfy it's thirst for blood
Can you do a lore video on Eris, her fire team and time on the moon? I think it's a cool lore topic!
i have already got one. From a year ago! ruclips.net/video/a2EbFkevnVg/видео.html not sure how accurate it is anymore
Hang on, my understanding is that Thorn was created Rose being corrupted along with Dredgen Yor, therefore the use of hive sorcery could be substituted with the weapon being corrupted along with its guardian.
Hey myelin I say the exotic swords count as weapons of sorrows. I say this because the swords and guardian weapons/frames which we use the shard of willbreaker (hive knowledge/power) to power the swords and the description for dark drinker talks about its hunger and needing be fed also the legendary versions are unsafe until we purify them with motes of light and refined hadium flakes.
are guardian weapons/frames**
I don't think so it seems a bit of a stretch
All the weapons you mentioned have similar ammo output, green/greyish
I would say the swords do not classify as weapons of sorrows because it has not been forged by hive sorcery and it does not influence guardians. Also Shaxx made it clear that he wanted to bring swords back to humanity as honorable weapons of the light.
Quality video, invective
Will Invective get a new quest line? Maybe based on this story of Ikora making it. Anyway, great vids and keep up the lore. INVECTIVE!
hope so, I would like to cover some lore on Ikora Rey!
TheLoneWolf why if its already put in engrams
Invective was a cassoid foundry weapon, like Telesto, so nah.
Invective.
And great video as always :)
awesome videos also with the new ornament for invective that's all crack could be one
Maybe the weapons of sorrow are just weapons that do hive things in combat. The necrochasms cursed thrall explosion. The thorns wizard miasma-like effect.
what if toland made bad juju using some of the same things that were used to make thorn and necrocasym? that could be why bad juju has that green glow on the front of it and why it is a scout rifle altered into a pulse rifle
Hey Myelin I'm pretty sure that thing on the invective is the Tex mechanica logo
Will you do lore on the new crucible map grimoire cards? I'm really interested in learning about the maps. Especially anomaly and bannerfall.
Black spindle is influenced by hive magic and it has "hunger" ish perk so i would say its weapon of sorrow
Wow. Thorn truly does alter their wielders: they become a holes in the crucible😜
TTK Swords are not Weapons of Sorrow. It is a guardian weapon and it seems to be altered by Hive rituals, but it doesn't hunger nor Influence the guardian, as far as I know. Also, weapons from Crota's End might be some sort of Weapons of Sorrow, we just don't have much lore behind them.
The TTK swords are reverse engineered from the jewel that Eris retrieved after Oryx went back to his own personal Ascendant Realm.
and mylein i love you vids i liked almost all of your vids your the best
but the thing is, ToM wasn't originally a normal gun, so it can't be a WoS as that's one of the requirements.
Thorne did not always look like a thorn he grafted the bones from the knight that he killed to the gun so it did technically transform and it does possibly have the soul of an ascendant hive
You failed to mention the description of bad juju. The description fulfills both criteria 3 and 4.
Fainally I was waiting