My Initial Thoughts - Old Towns new ePDL
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Here are my initial thoughts on the new ePDL.
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I double checked the website after recording the video. The website now says it weighs 143 lbs.
Which is still 1 lb less than 14 foot pro angler without a motor and battery
Yep and that is with a battery.... The 120 Auto without battery is 152, I'll be sticking with my 120 Auto. I like spot lock for inshore, big tide movements fishing. I actually use spotlock and an anchor for positioning.
But with what. Hull only?
@robertbohner4851 143 is fully rigged. Battery, drive and seat
@@stevehogan8829 there's no spot lock on the ePDL? Wow, that's a serious oversight.
I have my AP 120 for 3 years now and I have tested the new epdl at ICAST and I was super impressed by the speed of it. I can now go further and faster than ever before and cover new grounds! That's a definition of game changer itself for me. Because it literally changes my fishing game plan for the day! Lots of people making comments all over the internet without getting on the kayak first and not knowing the facts. 6k is too much in my opinion as well.. But... Innovation does cost money! It's an incredible luxury to have 3 methods of kayaking! Manual, motor assist and fully motorized! That's a piece of mind and to me that's priceless!
But no spot lock and not integrated to finder and no tracking like AP
@@BobBohner4851 I was using the cruise control feature to hold my spot. Not exactly spot like the one on my AP 120 but it holds your spot while fishing and you can lock the rudder control for locked directions. I highly recommend you to demo the kayak at your local retailer first and see what it can do.
Testing it for five minutes in a pond doesn’t exactly provide a ton of real world experience. Old Town put you in that kayak and gave you a speech about it knowing you would post a video and comment telling everyone how amazing those five minutes were.
I agree. The concept is fantastic but until it’s on the water and truly tested in a fishery it’s just a concept in a pond.
@@NavarreKayakFishing I asked them to test it on the water actually my brother. They didn't ask me. I was on the water good 20 minutes with some winds as well to test all the features. Coming from am AP 120 fishing kayak, İ was very impressed. I just fish very long hours when I go out and this kayak allows me to do that without worry about the battery life etc.
@@FishingFloridaWithKO I doesn’t matter who asked to use the kayak. It’s a media day. The idea is to get people in the kayak who will make vidoes in a pond and tell everyone it’s amazing. It’s marketing.
I paused this video after you said "I'm Nick, sittin out back". I have not yet watched this video but I can NOT wait to! There is never more honest reviews about products than when you do them. I have not looked at any specs or things about this boat/platform yet... You are my first stop. Don't let me down! lol
Then this comment should show up before you get finished. Have you seen the Titan X yet? I didn't want to talk about it in the video but it looks interesting!
@@NavarreKayakFishing I have yes, I love their thought process but... they still haven't done enough to make me even consider buying one
@@NavarreKayakFishing I'm at the point where you're talking about people falling out of their kayaks 😂😂😂
Appreciate your opinion. I too think $6k is insane, even if the ePDL is a "game changer", there I said it. And at 143 lbs that's way too heavy for 60 yr old to lift on & off a trailer 4 or 5 days a week. My 120 PDL has done right by me for years. I'll wait until well after its out (and scrutinized) before I pull the trigger. And yes, the thought of opening up all new water is exciting.
Thanks for watching Paul. The price point is insane but I understand how it made it that high. 143 lbs prior to adding a single fishing pole is a lot and the weight of kayak is often overlooked. I'm a young man and I don't like the kayak weighing in over 120 lbs.
If you’re using a trailer, you shouldn’t be lifting the kayak. That’s the whole point of using a trailer.
Awesome video as always. I really like the approach and the honesty in what you say. I think that kayak is super cool and does open kayaking to people with limitations. I’m just old fashioned, I like self propulsion. I like the simplicity of moving the kayak under your own power while I still can. But think this kayak is still cool
Hull weight is listed at 95 pounds, I do think that's the plastic itself. not including seat and any other attachments. I don't know for sure but that's my guess. Lifting on to a trailer or vehicle the 32 pound drive is easily removable as is the 8.5 pound battery. I think realistically you're looking at around 100 pounds give or take with removal of seat, battery, and drive.
I'm 71 and have no problem putting this into the bed of my dully. Drive and battery out of course.
$6000 is pricey but realistic considering it comes with the battery. I have the autopilot 120 and would love to have a pedal option for my 120. I would pay for the 120…. Love the video. Thanks for your honest reviews. Love honesty. Your the real deal and people can trust what you say! Keep up the good work!!
Wanna trade lol I'll give you my 120 pdl and you give me the 120 autopilot
Donald, I appreciate the kind words and you taking the time to watch/comment. I think the 120 will go over well in the future as well.
Enjoy your video on the oldtown. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching, William.
"If you're fishing the Great Lakes and trolling for whatever you troll for out there, whatever you do with your life." LMAO. Such a Florida thing to say. Love the channel and all the useful info, even for a man from the Midwest. Thanks.
Hahah. I grew up 45 minutes off of Lake Erie. I have nothing against the place.
Thanks for your opinion and thoughts. Appreciate your no-nonsense way of talking about things. We need more real world speakers out there. Looking forward to ordering some of your products for my Salty and my BigWater.
I appreciate the kind words. Thanks for taking the time to watch. Let me know if you have any questions.
Nick, we can always rely on you for a no-nonsense take. Thank you for your input and a great video👍
and yes, I watched the whole video lol - just posted before the end.
Thanks for taking the time to watch, Adam.
Was waiting for this - have no interest in one but your reviews are honest and think your points on one kayak can be spread across many. Cheers man, hope all is awesome
Jake, I hope you're doing well! I know its not for everyone but some will benefit a ton from it.
The bigwater hull is amazing if you fish in rough water and probably the driest kayak too, if you fish big open water with current and waves like me, this is awesome. Is the price high yes and no, i mean its 6k and thats a lot of money fore a peice of plastic, however if you look at some other brands its really on point with the market, like the hobie pa 360 is damn near 6k. I think this could be a game changer for those of us that actually fish open waters
I don't think I'd change my Bigwater for that. I don't fish in current nor the ocean. Weight is also a buzz kill. ON ANOTHER NOTE! THANK YOU FOR MAKING SHIPPING YOUR PRODUCTS TO QUEBEC ALOT FASTER. Love your products and the special attention with that note your wife puts in...makes me smile every time :)
We appreciate all of the support! It is heavy and that is a big pain in the butt.
As always thank you for your quick reply. Your straight talk is refreshing. I consider your in put valuable
Thanks for taking the time to watch!
Thank you for posting this video. Appreciate it. I was a little concerned as a month ago I bought the 120 PDL, then this announcement came out. For me, the price is prohibitive and what I currently have will get the job done.
Yes, I watched the whole video.
The 120 PDL is a great kayak and fits the needs of a ton of people perfectly. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment.
I am about to buy a auto pilot to prep for next spring.
Thanks a lot for casting controversy in my decision! 😂
Thank you.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Appreciate your honest feedback and reviews. I think you are completely correct about the 120 in the future... Thanks for what you do!
No problem 👍. Thanks for taking the time to watch.
I have the Sportsman pdl 106. Love it very stable and at 66 years old I don't want to tip, and weight is doable.
That price is crazy. But the reason why I am commenting here, I was going to email you but here is better! I bought a new rudder from you and through many hours of trying to install it ( I messed up the easiest installation method by removing a certain screw for the pulley etc then replaced paracord which made it easier to finally compete the job🤯😤😰) I have been out in the waves and this dang rudder is solid in the current and the kayak Stays in the direction I aim it !!!!!!😊It is worth every penny! Thank you! I also have the control knob adapter as well , also the your flag hanging from my kayak when transporting!
Excellent news!!! I'm sorry the install turned into a headache. We appreciate all of the support.
I’ve been waiting for your opinion on this boat. I’m going to wait another year and see what else they do with that drive. I saw a video where Aliex asked some good questions, and it was implied that Spot Lock may be coming to this drive in the future. I think the price is decent when you consider the cost of the Autopilot and a battery is close to $6k. I don’t like the short warranty on the drive, but time will tell how durable it is. All in all it looks like a good step forward for Old Town and I look forward to trying one out.
Interesting. How would they spot lock something that doesn’t control how the kayak turns. I look forward to seeing if anything changes in the next year as well.
@@NavarreKayakFishing I’m guessing they will find a way to incorporate ePDL with an Autopilot motor. Since Johnson outdoors owns a trolling motor company and a kayak company, I’m sure they won’t have too much trouble figuring out new ways to get us to upgrade our kayaks.
I totaly agree with you. Ive been in to Ebikes for several years. They were 6k when they first came out. Now you can get a decent one for 15 to 1800. In the Ebike world, Voltage is King. 48v is good 52v is better. BTW I got the Hobie 180 drive mount for my Lynx installed and got to use it last night.I love it, it makes managing the drive so much easier and secure.
I'm glad its working out well, David. 52V is insane. I'm sure one of those would be fun to ride.
I have to go with the versatility of the Titan X. Granted there will be added expenses but it will be at my pace and preference. The X simply puts more of the game in my hands.
I completely agree. There will be a ton of added expense to the advertised $3500 but most people who will upgrade already have the battery and the trolling motor.
I have the Sportsman PDL 106 which I love for it size but it is heavy cant imagine the the big water. I hope they come out with options other then just the big water would love to see this in a 106 or 120
Wow I am game for the 120. Thanks. for the heads up! wish the crummy weather in Homosassa fl would calm down so can catch mo fish!
That's just an assumption. I don't have any insider information.
That hull is the fastest big water hull out there! I bet the efficiency of that hull made it the Goto to try first!
I agree. I look forward to seeing how it performs.
Always appreciate your honest opinions Nick!
Dino I appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment. I hope you're doing well.
I have the Sportsman PDL 106 and that is already too heavy to take everywhere. I love fishing (MI) but I find the weight to be a bit prohibitive when I'm trying to get onto water that doesn't have a boat launch. The price is just...might as well buy a good used 16ft aluminum boat with a good used motor to fish with imo.
Makes sense to me. The kayaks are getting very heavy.
Great info! I like the way you think. I tend to agree with most of your points. Can you elaborate on stability. My thoughts on it... I have owned an Old Town Predator and PDL 106 and Autopilot and Hobie Revolution and Outback and Lynx. I mainly inshore fish Laguna Madre (TX) flat for reds, trout, flounder... While I see PDL 106 and Autopilot are VERY stable due to hull design, it seems the Predator is less stable until you shift body weight to find its secondary stability. While the Revolution stability is virtually nonexistent, the Lynx is basically a light weight barge, and the Outback has a really good secondary stability. While I have never "flipped" a kayak since kayaking since 2007, I have fallen out of the Revo once. I blame boat wake. LOL! Keep the good info content coming Nick!
Most of todays "kayakers" wouldn't manage to sit in a 13' Revo in a swimming pool let alone take it fishing. You have a ton of time in a variety of kayaks so you look at things much different then most and time in a variety of kayaks gives you experience most wont ever have. I think your thoughts a dead on the money.
Thanks Nick. Curious to see how it works out for people. I am loving my salty pdl but i could see the epdl being pretty nice for a long day on the water.
It would be so cool if they could allow you to get some charge via the peddles as well. Regenerative paddling or something
Regenerative charging is something that would be extremely cool but I I'm sure there's heat issues to consider when its comes to keeping it waterproof. Interesting to see what the future holds though.
Bigwater ("had" one) weighs a lot, add battery and electronics, its going to suck even more launching from the beach even with a good cart. I do agree on the 2 yr warranty, if they didn't address the bottom end of the drive, that might cause issues. that was my biggest complaint with my 132.
There are definitely things to be concerned about when it comes to the warranty and longevity.
I just bought the 106 PDL Grey Ghost and can't imaging the $6k price tag. Only a small group of people will jump on it. But they are out there.
The Grey Ghost is a good looking color scheme. I wonder what Old Town considers a small group? I often wonder exactly how many kayaks these companies sell per year.
Thanks nick I value your opinion. I am happy with my 10 6 pdl for my Nebraska lakes.
Thanks for taking the time to watch, Tom.
Way good show thanks. I'll have to wait for a bit see how they work out. Mite have to sell my pa14 an go get me one
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment.
I finally have my 2021 Predator exactly how I want it. Now looks like I’ll be starting over in February. Just wish they had First light as a color option.
Rick, maybe they will have more colors once they are finally available.
YES Nick and thank you
Thanks for watching, buddy.
I agree completely that they will expand this to the 120 line, probably very soon. My problem with old town is the weight. All of the models are far too heavy.
Price is a big concern as well. $6000 is a lot of money, especially with stuff like Texas Power Paddle motors becoming available and you can be all in with boat and motor for $3500-$5000 and have a much lighter set up.
I dunno, either way, innovation is good. This will push the industry to improve and old town will make improvements as well.
Its true, innovation is good. It's hard for any company to make everyone happy. The price is tough to swallow but there are so many people slapping trolling motors on the front of random kayaks that eventually someone is going to get hurt. The TPP is interesting but the price point on those and the Bixpys are getting insane too.
Did they choose the 132 as the debut for the system because of the hull design? I'm not an expert on boat design but I believe that hull cuts through the water with less resistance, theoretically equaling longer battery life, which is a primary marketing point for the system.
Keith, I have considered that as well but I don't think we will ever know the actual reason they did. We can only assume. I do tend to agree though - its a much faster hull design and will provide great efficiency when speed and battery life are considered.
Price seems reasonable when you look at the other options of proven platforms and adding motors…I see more Hobie pro angler’s on the water than anything else and their 4500 to 6000. Old town is for the people that are too cheap to buy a Hobie lol I love my bigwater this would definitely help going further
offshore. We have some good stuff just outside 5 to 6 miles in Navarre. Wahoo from the kayak would be killer
I agree.
Gotta love this integration on the pdl, particularly on the BW hull. I agree, the pred/BW is the best hull they’ve made, especially for all types of saltwater and large lakes. Undisputed King imo.
As a happy current owner of the 132, no I will not be ordering this any time soon. Cant get over that tag but I get why. With that said I am sure glad the option is available for us.
It is funny seeing haters of this hull, all of a sudden become fans because of the motor 😂
Couldn't agree more! It was one of the first things I said to a good buddy of mine. All of the folks that complained about the stability will be the first in line to say its the best kayak ever made now and they won't say one negative thing about the stability.
Nice job as usual Nick!
I appreciate that. Thanks for watching.
I think its an awesome idea. I probably wont buy one though. Making a epdl drive that I could just drop in my 2018 predator pdl would have made my day.
I would have preferred they just take care of the main thing keeping people from adding power to any oldtown and get rid of the rudder sticking out of the back and go with one that sits under the kayak like most other brands.
Side note: if you come up with a way from me to mount a motor straight inline with the rear of my kayak without removing the rudder ill buy it.
I think there’s a few things we are missing as far as simply installing it in an existing kayak. The kill switches are a major function and if the drive is still spinning when lifted then people will shatter propellers and ruin the gearboxes. Major liability and warranty issues.
@NavarreKayakFishing yep I get that. That's all part of an "install kit" it would definitely be a project to wire in and would likely require drilling. Another hurdle I discussed with a buddy of mine is what they could sell the drive for, if they couldn't sell it at prices that compete with a nk180 and a battery then it probably would be worth the effort.
I'm looking forward to your opinion and review of the boat once you get your hands on one. You always tell it like it is. I've seen a lot of complaints, mostly from bass fisherman, about the price and no spot lock. When looking at the price my response has been look at the price of a Hobie Pro Angler. Then add in the price of putting a motor on that thing, wiring it up, buying a battery...this ePDL comes with the battery, is wired up, and you plug in and go. Others have said they would rather spend the money on the new Native Titan X, because it "only" costs in the mid $3000 area. It also comes fully wired, which is great, but you still have to buy your own motor and battery. Before you know it you're looking at close to 6 grand for that boat as well.
You make a ton of great points. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the kayak so I can see exactly what it will do in heavy river current and offshore current. If it can beat the current its a huge win in my mind. I'm going to make a video on the Native Titan X - I didn't want to combine the videos just yet. We can produce a comparison video at another time.
Hey Nick, have been waiting to hear your opinion on this one as the dude I associate most with this line. As I only find my way to the salt (inshore) a couple of times a year, this one is definitely not designed with me in mind. However, I really do think people are discounting the utility that this new drive is going to provide. If they release a PDL 120 with this it may be enough to get me to walk away from my Nucanoe Unlimited, which has just been hard for anybody to do yet. $6K is definitely steep, but I foresee this guy creating some additional competition on the market (wake up Nucanoe), and we'll likely see offerings from other companies in the coming years. Keep up the good content, and let us know when you get some time in the seat with this one!
Unfortunately, I won't be able to get my hands on one any sooner then the general public but I do look forward to it and will keep everyone updated. I agree, I think it will drive other companies to provide sleeker solutions to propulsion.
Thanks for this video Nick. I'm really interested in your thoughts after you're able to get it on the water and run it through its paces in real world situations. Hard to cut through the BS from the OT fluffers who spent a whopping 5 minutes on it, but we're supposed to just run out and drop $6k cause it's a "Total Gamechanger!!!". And boy there seem to be a lot of them, so it'll be refreshing to get your honest opinion on it. A 2-year warranty is total BS on an eDrive that's costing north of $4k. This is something that could be awesome, but I'll have to let others work out any kinks before I'm dropping that kind of dough on it.
It is hard to cut through the BS 99% of the time and I'm sure this release will be no different. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get my hands on one any sooner then the general public but I do look forward to it. The two year warranty is a giant concern of mine.
i listened too the whole video while putting line on my new reel lol
Thanks for watching, Mike. Well, listening haha
Looks really cool with all the features, but Damn! 6k with only a two year warranty is awful. I still love my bigtuna’s.
6k and a two year warranty is a common concern it seems.
Hey, I called OldTown and that 122 lbs is not accurate. It ended up being less than the 120Autopilot but not 30 lbs lighter. It was about 20 lbs lighter motor battery seat to motor battery seat. The diffference is in the design of the yaks... 120 is wider and also heavier even though the 132 is longer.
It looks like 143 lbs is updated on the website now.
Nick Do you think they will eventually make the drive system to be interchangeable with the the other Kayaks in the Old Town line up? I know the drive system in the new Kayak is not. The idea of being able to by the drive system and drop it in my PDL 120 Sportsman would be really cool.
I dont think they'll release a version that is retrofittable. To much risk. People would install the kill switch incorrectly and the kayak would be driving around by itself hahah
12v LifePo4 batteries are pretty reasonable now, and they have 100ah Mini batteries now that use new lighter cells.
Very true. But a 36V and a 12V are very different systems.
Yep 36 is more efficient and you don't need a huge amp hour, other than that they are very similar other than voltage.
Explain to me why a dude would chose this new electric pdl vs installing a trolling motor on their pdl? The trolling motor has the ability to lock you in position with GPS (granted one buys one with spot lock) and get you from point a to point b rather quickly too. I appreciate the videos you make
I would choose it over the installing a trolling motor with spotlock on the front of the kayak for a number of reasons. If I hook the fish I want to catch with a spotlock trolling motor on the front of the kayak its simply in the way. I think i'll go into details in a video.
I think ill stick to my 2020 Predator PDL just add on a Bixby eventually for Local Socal Offshore uses La Jolla etc! 😅 Getting the job done as is!
If it aint broke, don't fix it. I like it. Keeping a kayak simple is a big deal.
Battery included at that price isn’t bad. I purchased the Sportsman 106 MK for $3,500 battery NOT included and NO pdl. I wanted a high capacity lithium battery so I purchased a 125 Ah for $950 plus a charger $140 that put the price at just over $4,500. With that said I don’t think $6,000 is that far off when you include the battery and it’s a larger platform and you have the pdl. Just a side note my 106 MK is a 12V system and gets 4 to 4.2 mph fully loaded with power pole etc. According to the Ionic battery operation app I can go full speed for approximately 3.5 hours at full charge pulling 35 to 37 Amps. I hope this helps give some amount of comparison. I know the APs have the exact same motor as the 106 MK and depending on how they’re rigged only get 3.5 to 4 mph wide open.
I agree, John. With everything included I don't look at the number as absolutely terrible. I had the 106MK and a 135AH battery. Expensive and heavy. Lots of moving parts in my mind and no ability to pedal. So this could be sweet.
@@NavarreKayakFishing I’ll wait till they put it on the AP120 lol
I might actually pull the trigger on this. Ive mentioned a electric assist for the pdl way back when i got my predator and first started watching your channel. I actually would rather it be sold without the battery and the price lower. Id get a larger one for extented range.
I'm thinking thats a very expensive battery. A quick look at the Amped website shows the cost of a 36V 50AH at over $1000. So we can assume the 20AH is close to $500. Ideally they are getting a price break for buying so many. I wonder how much it would love the price.
Went to demo day here in the NE yesterday. Peddle assist 5 was clocking 6.5mph in about 100 yards of water..it's a rocket. 5.5 depending on current should be sustainable for certain runs. OT rep said the replacement battery would sell for $999. They couldn't yet quote a price on the ePDL drive replacement as I too did not like 2yr on the drive.@@NavarreKayakFishing
Its a great kayak and im glad they are experimenting. However, I'd rather buy a 120 Sportsman PDL and keep the extra cash for mods and this and that.
Completely understandable!
Still argue that the autopilot 136 is hands down the best fishing platforms. Love mine after all mods it is way better than my 120 pdl with xi3. I’m an old town guy but this new release was a fail. The inability to move the unit into any of the other sportsman lineup is just silly. Could have pushed way more product. Also find a way to recharge by pedaling like an e-bike. Then u got something.
You argue the AP is the best platform for a certain type of fishing which is completely regional. There are places I could take you where that AP does nothing but spook fish and cause issues all day. Its a big world though and all of the kayaks have a place.
Do you think they will ever sell the ePDL drive by itself? Seems like they’d miss out on a lot of money if they didn’t. I bought a sportsman 120 pdl a couple years ago and it’s great. But the ePDL would make going offshore sooo much easier. I’m not going to spend like $5000 or whatever they ask for the 120 when it comes out after just spending around $3000. Plus I’d then have to sell my pdl. That being said, I would spend $1000-2000 for the drive alone to drop in my pdl. Sorry this was so long. Thanks for all that you do.
Hey Nick love all the products you make for the Old Town Kayaks.
Have you ever found/made a solution for the front handle of the Predator/Bigwater 132 kayaks?
I don't have giant hands and I've found it very uncomfortable wheeling around my boat plus gear to the water with landing gear. Any solutions or products I should look at?
You mention a 132 and a 136. 136 is the new platform? Is the 132 the same as my Predator? Thanks Nick.
This is the same size as your Predator 132. The 136 is the AutoPilot - it has a spotlock trolling motor built into the kayak.
As to the price, they are pricing themselves out of 1/2 the market.
What I mean by that is I would guess 1/2 the kayak fishermen are in kayal because they love the kayak platform. The other 1/2 is in kayaks because it gets them off the bank at a reasonable price; less than a boat. Now at the prices of $4k-$7k high end kayaks, its the price of a used, modest boat.
As always I appreciate your analysis. As you know I flipped my predator first time out but it was my fault. I spent the whole day out and got careless 30 ft from the beach. Do you think the new drive could be used in my unit?
Unfortunately, it isn't compatible.
I have an ebike and the pedal assist is pretty awesome. Now...I don't pedal much and use it mostly as a straight motor but.... LOL!! This is a pretty darn good innovation for a kayak and I wonder if you have to register it because it's pedal assist (in FL anyways, I know some tyrannical states make you register every vessel, which is ridiculous). Until they make it official I wouldn't register it. And I don't know any FWC officers who would mess with you about it. :-) --Brent
I have a plan but I'm not putting in the comments lol. I hope you're doing well, Brent.
@@NavarreKayakFishing Ha! I know that. All is well. I need to pick your brain sometime about 3d printing. I have almost no knowledge about it but I want to make some hunting things and there are similar things out there but these people are charging stupid prices for something simple. I get the economy but man, it's crazy. I will hit you up soon. Take care Nick! Keep the good stuff coming!
Always interested in your opinions on anything kayak Nick. If I didn't have a million dollars of NKF accessories on my OT Sportsman 120 PDL, I'd be looking at this new boat! LOL Seriously, interesting comments for sure. Before everyone faints over the $6000 price tag, they should first faint over Hobie's 360. That's a peddle only kayak weighing 124.5 pounds with a price point of $5800. Ok to choke on OT's new boat price but IMHO, the Hobie is much more over priced than the new OT. Stay safe my friend - looking forward to trying my new fishfinder mount BTW! It's been over 100 degrees here everyday for weeks so I'm not sure when that's going to happen!
The price points across the board are very high but its the times we live in. The new Titan X is priced lower but you have to buy the battery and add the motor. Interesting times!
I was thinking +$500 MSRP over the PDL version tops (+1k with battery). I was way off. I love my Predator PDL and it seems like I'm going to keep loving it for a while. The idea that the insane price is due to inflation is probably not reality.
Inflation will play a large roll in it the Predator (Bigwater 132 PDL) was once $2600 but I agree it isn't the only thing driving the price. R&D isn't cheap and neither is paying a company to use their technology in a product you produce. They may have had help designing and building the drive. We will never know.
Hey Nick, I already have the 120 pdl and I’m in my 50s and don’t want to upgrade bigger because it’s a lot of work. Do u think they will have just the pedal drive to sell for the 120 pdl. Thx
So far everything they have said leads to it not being compatible.
I've done the 120 PDL with an Xi3. I doubt they will get any of my money for several years. That being said, I wish they had done this a year sooner.
I've heard a few different opinions about the performance of the 120 PDL with a trolling motor on the front of it. Whats your experience? Still plenty stable?
I'm in my 60s, bad knees, and bit "round." It's still stand up stable. The only negatives- you need to stop it before engaging the anchor mode to avoid the sudden correction, and I've taken a couple of waves over the bow, but that was in conditions that would have been a wet ride in my center console boat. I moved my seat backward in hopes of getting the bow up a little higher
Would be nice to be able to drop in the e drive in my bigwater 132, thought about adding a motor so I won’t be so tired at the end of the day, on average I do 17-20 miles on the water
Thats a long ways!!!!
It's game changing, but no more game changing than slapping a trolling motor on my PDL 120. Newport 62# thrust, mount, trim mod, lock it in and steer with my rudder. Same result, except a lot more money in my bank acct. I'd rather supply my own batteries for my needs, but I'm sure there are just as many people that would want an out of the box solution.
I think there will be a ton of people who like the sleek and simple design compared to slapping a trolling motor on the back or front of a kayak that wasn't designed for it.
@@NavarreKayakFishing fair point, but this hull has been out for a while, so it wasn't really designed for it either. Almost the same result for a couple thousand less will win me over every time. BTW love your products and my PDL is covered in them.
I meant the kayaks weren’t designed to have the weight hanging off the front of them. I’m surprised someone hasn’t absolutely destroyed the front of a PDL yet with an iPilot. We appreciate all of the support and I enjoy this conversations. Lots of different perspectives.
@@NavarreKayakFishing agreed, and I didn't want to look at that big ugly thing all day. I also beach 4-5 times throughout the day, which would be a pain with a bow mount. I put the Newport mount in my power pole spot and I'm going to test that out this weekend.
I think it will be a solid setup. I’ve heard good things.
Just more stuff to break,I have a predator Mx and l fish Pamlico sound. I got to admit I think about getting a predator pdl
Facts. There's always more stuff to break!
A little wiring and you could put it in any pdl system
They said if won't fit and the drive hole does appear to be a different size.
In one of the videos I watched they said you could put a regular pdl drive in its place .
Also in that video I thought I heard the only real difference was the emergency kill switch.
Price point is kinda crazy when the water snake trolling motor costs 200 dollars and a 100ah lithium battery is 150. The whole trolling motor fits in the front hatch of a PA. And you can swap the drive out in like 45 seconds
I agree but a PA is still $4700-$6000 to purchase before taxes shipping and those modifications.
@@NavarreKayakFishing fair. Kayak prices have gone insane. I bought a pa12 for 1200 on Craigslist in 2017. I could sell now for double that. I guess they'll keep raising prices if people keep paying it. Can't imagine paying that much for a kayak.
this is awesome for sure since it is water ready nothing else to buy, it's all there. $6000, yeah, it's expensive but remember, kayaks are not a necessity. You pay to play, now if that's buying a $1500 used kayak and building it up or buying brand new $3000+ and building it up. We as kayak fishermen will spend a lot of money for comfort, rig ability, and fun. It's pretty easy to say it's too expensive, but if that's what you want and can afford go for it.
Also, remember Oldtown AP 132 is $4900, and you need a battery, and if while out there and something happens either motor, battery, or wiring your PADDELING back.
Eric, you are spitting out to many facts for the internet to handle all at one time. I 100% agree with everything you just said.
Have they made the epdl for the other oldtown kayaks to drop in
They have not.
It would be great if they just sell the drive and get the adapter to insert it in an existing bigwater pdl 132. Would be great.
That's not going to happen. The drive box looks a bit wider then the original drive box. Also, I could see people installing it incorrectly and not proper running the kill switch wires.
First thought that came to my mind was is there a kill switch? I can just picture that thing driving itself away after my dumbass falls out lol. And backwards compatibility with my predator I'm not buying a new kayak. lol.
No backwards compatibility. I'm sure there were concerns about people installing the system incorrectly and causing major issues.
@@NavarreKayakFishing I figured... I was just being hopeful cuz it looked about the same dimensions
What is your favourite old Town PDL
Bigwater 132 PDL.
Yo I stay in Ocala Florida I’m not new to fishing but I wanna start fishing to keep fish instead of release but I don’t know the legal size for certain fish. What is the best place/app to be able to identify the fish I catch as well as tell me the legal size?
6k is way to steep. I have a 120 pdl and love it. But my next big fishing purchase will be a boat over that.
Good choice!
Its still only stable if you stay seated. The majority of the market wants to be able to walk front to back, pole while standing on the seat, and big hook sets. The bigwater will dump you.
The kayak is plenty stable when standing. I've sight fished a stupid amount of bull Redfish from the kayak while standing. Never an issue. Now, folks with big hook sets on 10" LMB deserve a bath anyways. Im just kidding. The majority of the market wants to walk from front to back in a kayak but can barely get in and out of the kayak at the launch. It is comical.
so how it is going to go trough the sugar sand with that weight better than ap 136? keep a look out on those pythons 🙀
It’s not going to be better at all if it weighs the same. But I think it will be significantly lighter then the 136. Atleast 20 lbs.
It will perform ten times better then the 136 in the surf and if you flip it it’s not nearly as fragile.
@@NavarreKayakFishing yeah the 20 lbs is in the 36v battery system weight savings - it would be nice to have one for 136 but the cost of 36v Minnkota system would be off the roof, good they finally got something for you " surf junkies" but the gravitation from idiot bass boat to bass kayak is better for everyone less of them on the water
Right now you can get a new paddle Big Water for sub $1500 ($1,100 near me), a new xi3 w/ GPS (spot lock!) for $1300 and a 60Ah (all day power vs the 3hrs the ePDL+) $500. This all for about half cost and you get spot lock. They didn’t make the ePDL+ able to retro fit into current customer’s hulls…not impressed but I’m an existing customer so I’m not the target.
I also get my better budget build is not plug and play so there’s that too.
There are pro's and con's to everything. I'm not a fan of having a trolling motor off the front of the kayak. It's great for certain things but under no circumstances do I want that thing in my way when I'm fighting a large fish.
@@NavarreKayakFishing I can understand that. I hated having a pedal drive taking up what felt like 80% of my deck space. I tend to fight largemouths and the spot lock has been incredibly helpful so the pros for me have outweighed the cons. OT will have no problem selling a $4500 pedal drive on a $1500 boat I’m just disappointed, like many, they didn’t make it backwards compatible for their existing customers. I understand it’s business though.
You are correct, everything costs more. That said, the autopilots are going for $4700-4900 without a $300 battery. What makes an e-drive so expensive? It isn't new technology, e-bikes have been around for years. It is cheaper for someone to buy a 120 sportsman pdl, install a trolling motor and battery and have the best of both worlds. This is just too expensive.
I see your point but I've seen some very shady trolling motor installs on the kayaks. Front mounted trolling motors on platforms that aren't designed for it cause balance issues as well and it isn't the smartest route in my opinion and that brings us the the Titan X - its designed for it and looks like a cool option. The ePDL keeps things simple and streamlined and there's a lot of situations where that makes a difference. I know its not that big of a deal when you're bass fishing for 15" fish. (not saying you are)
@NavarreKayakFishing I see your point on stability, I just don't agree that a pedal assist should cost $2k more than a spotlock trolling motor. I could give them maybe an additional $500-$1k. At $6k, I could buy a nice, used fishing boat. This price almost moves this to specific targeted users. I love the drive and the ability to use it in 3 different modes. Have th see how well it sells and what happens when the get competition. I know the 2 anniversary edition 120 auto pilots that michigan received were still sitting in the stores in June. At $4200, they were not selling.
Price point is high but as a “more mature person” the fully automatic is attractive but then the weight is a turn off for me to lift on and off the truck plus pushing across the beach. It has positive and negatives just have to determine which features win out
A "more mature person" - well played. I can see age playing a huge part in decision making. Pedaling is easier then pushing another 20-30 lbs across the beach in my opinion. But fighting the current is a pain some days. Tons of pro's and con's to consider.
@@NavarreKayakFishing any idea if the drive electronics are waterproof? If you tip (due to user error) will the drive survive being submerged in salt water?
Can you buy just the epedal system for the older versions
They say it’s not retrofittable at this time.
I think there’s a market and interest from many of us existing PDL owners to consider an ePDL replacement that would drop in our current boats.
There have been a ton of comments like this on the video and in my messages, emails, and voicemails already. It's not compatible and I'm sure part of it is to make money but the other part has to be liability. The number of people who would mess up the install is mind blowing. If the wires weren't ran properly to the kill switch there would be a ton of issues.
“You don’t buy stability, you learn it” Jeff Little
Facts!!! But the majority don't think that way.
@6k & $32.00 for Deodorant, it ain't going to happen-lol! Prices are up even at our store at the base here overseas. :( If I did have 6K, I wish they would have given the option for a spare battery up front with a battery switch. From my experience with batteries and motors, OT's claims seem a bit exaggerated. It will be interesting to see some Real on the water tests.
I agree completely. I look forward to the actual on the water numbers.
I'd rather NOT be in offshore an autopilot and have a dead battery. Gimme 100% pdl + the aid of an ebike motor. In that situation, I'm not subject to electrical failure looking at paddling a brick; which is what I've heard the AP's paddle like.
Exactly. The ability to pedal is way better than being forced to paddle the AP. It's a barge.
Alright SO! My opinion (this is gonna be long winded) You'll likely call me afterwards lol
At least they chose the right platform to motorize this time. I hate the Topwater and AutoPilot platforms, they're slow by design. Stable, sure I guess, but slow and inefficient is what they are. Unfortunately, Old Town continues to motorize their boats from the midship position. They failed with that the first time they motorized a PDL and this one will ultimately fail too. They also alienated owners of this boat because I can't imagine it will be legal to use in one of the most popular tournament trails (or any trail that doesn't allow motors for that matter).
A stern mounted motor is always going to be the best propulsion method. I don't know why anyone would buy this boat with the higher price tag when they could get the Autopilot with spot lock for less.
Their marketing strategy won't change though. They will give these boats to popular RUclipsrs who don't have a clue about what's good or what's not but they are great at content generation and people will buy these, only to sell them a year later. (Sorta like another boat they have in their line up)
At least they redesigned the rear tank well. Not sure why they didn't add a power pole mount on both sides... why force me into putting it on one side or another, using one in the position it's in will make me all cock eyed in current. Give me two, one in the middle or none at all...
Glad they learned their lesson from the mesh seat debacle.
This sounds stupid but it's terrible from a marketing perspective... they put the ePDL logo right where boat registration numbers go lol
The branded tackle box is the best selling feature for me... the advertisement video was fantastic too (due the Christie Holmes being in it)
Alright, it's been 24 hours but I have officially read the comment. Do you think the number of people who fish those tournaments out weigh the number of recreational users?
The marketing strategy - facts. I expect to see a ton of content on this kayak prior to them getting shipped to every day average joes like my self.
I'll message you about this stuff. Looks like the 1436 turned out very nice!
@@NavarreKayakFishing I don't think tournament anglers outweigh recreational ones but most kayaks are being designed right now for tournaments, just like bass boats.
$6k for a kayak..but have you priced a Hobie Pro Angler 360 lately?
My question is this, where did they test these kayaks in order to come up with those numbers? You and me both fish ocean waters and we both know that majority of the time those numbers mean nothing when put against really life ocean conditions tides, winds, currents, ect ect. I can go 5mph all day in my auto pilot when I’m with the current and wind blowing perfectly but the minute I go against the current or there is chop or winds in my face those numbers count for nothing. So where they taken in perfect conditions on a lake with no winds no currents flat as glass or real life situation. I really wish they would test in both and put both numbers when advertising
I assume the tested them in the northeast. They have major tides and currents so it could have been tested properly and accurately.
@@NavarreKayakFishing lol oh I know that’s where I’m at lol jersey tides and currents are no joke lol we joked about it on the phone when I spoke to you a month or two back about my over inflated cart tires as to why my cart kick stand wasn’t touching the ground lol by the way that Indeed was the solution for the problem.
I look forward to it being tested by random folks on the water. I’m surprised they didn’t have a few for people already to have on the water.
No matter what you say and I know you know better. This kayak is unstable when compared to their other fishing kayaks. That doesn't mean it is unstable but it is not nearly as stable as say PDL 120.
Short and blunt answer. The Predator/Bigwater hull is a kayak hull - all of the ultra stable “kayaks” are plastic Jon boats/wide gheenoes. If people don’t think the Predator is stable is because they lack experience and coordination in an actual kayak.
Fineeeee! …Mayyyyyybe I’ll buy one eventually. They’ll be $7500 by then 😂
Shucks. You’re not wrong. Price will be insane in three years. 10K. Lol
6k !! I’m out.. I just got the big water 132 pdl , I rather go aftermarket and get a bixpy
That price tag is steep. The more I think about it the more unreasonable it sounds to me.
Early adopters always pay more and the manufacturers know it. The only way the prices on anything will come down, is when no one buys them. The coming depression will correct the market. The ePDL is an interesting marriage of marine and ebike tech. My fifty plus year old Grumman Sport Boat looks better all the time.
I probably wont ever buy another pedal drive kayak with assisted pedaling or cruise. I rather buy the 136 autopilot or boat. That battery wouldnt last long in the currents and winds in my area.
Then you're going to want a boat because a 12V in the AP gets smoked in heavy currents and wind. It's a big, wide, heavy platform that uses a lot of power in heavy current. No way around it. A 36V system should be far more efficient.
@@NavarreKayakFishing boat it is
The good thing about getting into kayaking can turn into a bad thing about getting into kayaking. By my own fault I have purchased (and sold at a loss) a bunch of low dollar to high dollar kayaks and dozens of accessories. I was looking for the cheap way to get into the hobby. If I were to do it all over again I would rather spend my money on a quality product(s) than on a bunch of cheap bad decisions.
I think we are all guilty of that in different situations. I know I am!!!!
C'mon Nick. Yeah, inflation sucks but in that case, all of their kayak should double in price. Not a good excuse for the price.
I’m not saying inflation is the reason. I’m saying it’s an easy excuse for crazy pricing.
I was excited about the e-pdl until i realized it i wouldn't be able to upgrade my sportsman pdl with this new e-pdl
ePDL is a gimmick, you can add a stern mount motor to any PDL kayak, native, old town watever and boom same thing.
You can also get a 12v Haswing 65lb thrust brushless for 299 and a 100ah mini Lifepo4 for 350 and you have the same performance as a NK 180 which is 1000 with no battery.
You can add trolling motors to anything but that doesnt make it a sleek or high functional design.
No spot lock either. And won't be tournament legal in no motor trails.
@NavarreKayakFishing does that even matter? If you get same functionality for thousands less that's a good thing .
But no spot lock and tracking like AP. AND NOT INTEGRATED TO FISH FINDER.
I don’t personally need a kayak to drive me around while I’m fishing. The fish aren’t always on that line that gets created.
@@NavarreKayakFishing agreed. But you’re not 80 years old either. :-). Love your innovation and products and knowledge
You’re doing pretty dang good at 80!
@@NavarreKayakFishing thanks. Appreciate what i can do and don’t mourn the loss of other things.
When did things ever get less expensive, especially for a new product? If you can afford 2k on a hobby you’re doing just fine.