You’re correct about Onrack and Kilava. Tavore’s arc was a slow burn for me, for sure. Like many other elements of the series, there are things that don’t seem to have much importance for a while, but they end up contributing to something big or to moments that can catch you off guard with the emotional impact. No surprise to me that Karsa is a favorite for you - he gets even cooler later. Once again, many of your guesses are excellent, but no comment from me on them other than that! Awesome to hear your thoughts, both the good and the bad!
Hi Philip, I just saw that Iskar Jarak has a video up for The God is not Willing. He asks in the comment section about people getting advanced copies. Seeing you pop up in the comment section here I realise that I just assumed that you have that sorted. If not and you want a copy I don't mind sending you one.
@@brush2canvas849 Hi! Even though I’d love to, I can’t watch Iskar’s video yet because I don’t have The God Is Not Willing. I’m planning to read it when it’s released here in the States and discuss it with A.P. Canavan. The two of us should be finishing our reread of The Malazan Book of the Fallen and our read of Novels of the Malazan Empire right around the time of the release in November. So, I was holding off, though it’s not easy to wait! That said, I won’t refuse such a generous gesture as you have proposed. I’ll get in touch with my address. Many thanks!
The problem with House of Chains is that Erikson goes hard on the "This series is meant to be reread" strategy. I agree with almost all of your gripes with this book (except for the military stuff, I love that) but after getting through the whole series and rereading this book, there is so much more to enjoy that just goes over our heads the first time. You probably are hearing that with every book so far but that is just the case with Malazan. The thing with Tavore and her being not an interesting character is that you are almost never in her head. Every time she is in a chapter it is almost exclusively someone else's POV. Which I understand, still doesn't make her an interesting character to read, but she ended up being one of my favorite characters by the end because of how mysterious her motivations and thoughts are kept. If it makes you feel any better about continuing the series, Midnight Tides is IMO in the top 3 if not #1 of the entire series. It is a complete change of pace from the military aspect and is extremely character driven. Also contains my favorite duo in fantasy. Anyways, love hearing your thoughts on the books no matter if they are good or bad!
I will say I never thought Tavore was boring. We aren’t in her head but we learn about how intelligent she is, and confident in her decisions she is. Her intellect and wisdom shown through this book tells you a lot. But that’s only if you’re paying attention to Erikson’s “show don’t tell” storytelling
Felisin Younger - her sections just broke my heart. You mentioned it, but the line where he says "We all knew, and yet, we did nothing." was extremely emotional for me - and such a sad reality for so many people in abusive situations. Karsa is by far my favorite character, which feels strange seeing how I feel about Bidithal, but the conversation around consent with Karsa and his people feels VERY different - and I love that Erikson is able to show both sides without forcing a judgement on the reader. It's just so well done! My least favorite by far is also Tavore's sections, but this was still my second favorite of the four (after Deadhouse Gates).
The Karsa situation feels like when you read an antihero like the punisher or lobo, whonyou know are not nice People, but they are fighting even worse People and you end up cheering for them.
I agree that felisins overall story was tragic, but it also felt pointless to me. She never had any agency til the end. I legitimately don’t understand why he made her Shaik reborn and then did nothing with it.
@@orangecardman7905 I can see why it can feel like nothing was done, but I feel like that story was a character story, rather than a world story. Felisin never had agency, and she tried to gain that agency by becoming Shaik and gaining that power - all to never really have power and still lose everything to her sister (whom she had so much rage and wanted revenge against for two entire novels). I don't necessarily think this had a "point" other than showing the damage that is caused from cruelty and overall lack of compassion.
Hey I wanted to give some spoilery thoughts 1. The Felisin part is a bit tragic for me when she did not realize her sister loved her. What is more tragic is that Erikson confirmed in a recent interview that Felisin was the shadow whose life was exchanged with Paran's in Gardens of the Moon. This makes it so much worse. I hope the exchange is worth it though. This really felt like some greek tragedy 2. The part about Tavore for me was that we never actually got to know her. We are only seeing her through the eyes of the soldiers. She has to be strong in front of them because of how bleak the situation is. We never once got her point of view and everything we know about her is surmised by how people think she felt. We never for one know how she actually feels about any of the bleak things happening 3. I also found this book a bit slow but I loved Karsa. He was just amazing and I am happy he killed so many people at the end. He also started showing compassion in the end 4. Lostara's take was about compassion. She knew that it was going to break Tavore if she mentioned that she killed Felisin. Tavore might find out later but as of now, Lostara thinks that they are the only ones who know that Felisin was Shaik and they believe they will never tell Tavore that
If you don't like the boys betting on scorpions and sitting around campfires, you might want to avoid Glen Cook's Black Company completely. Tavore and the 14th are the real heroes of Malazan for me.
Haha I made this exact comment in a previous video. If someone likes military fantasy, nothing beats Glen Cook, but if it's not their bag, no real reason to read them.
@@BooksRebound Guess there's no accounting for taste. I finished The Golden Fool today and there's some revelations in it about someone I thought I knew that just pulled the rug out from under me. I felt just how Fitz did in that situation. These books are real page-turners for me.
Mike, this is why I love watching your read through. As a Malazan fan, I can watch any video on Malaztube and get video gushing on how every part is just hidden genius from people who have already finished or reread 3 times and are looking back through rose tinted shades. This is more accurately how I felt on my first reading of House of Chains. Looking back, yes , now that I've read more I feel differently about Tavore and HoC the way this series goes, its kind of like a puzzle with no edge pieces. You only get those once youve put the rest of the pieces together incorrectly. 😆 Karsa is awesome and gets even better when you see him next, I think you'll start to like Trull Sengar more when you see him next as well. Good luck, hope the next book is pure unperturbed joy for you. Cheers.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to books. This is what I have read The wheel of time Stormlight archive Mistborn (era 1) Warbreaker Lightbringer I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor I had only read Discworld when I picked it up in like 2012. IDK that you have to have reading qualifications to be able to read Malazan. It really is up to personal taste, imo. The fact that you can obviously stick with a long series might be helpful. Erikson writes with a rhythm or cadence that I immediately fell into. If you arent able to get used to his style you may have issues. Then again maybe not. I really don't want to be the gatekeeper here. Lol Sorry. I think you should try it if you are interested in learning the story, but not just to have it under your belt. If you don't enjoy it don't hesitate to DNF cause depending on your reading speed it could take up a lot of your time. As a synopsis ; it is a glimpse into a very eventful period in the storied history of the Malazan Empire that seeks expansion. The wars, religion, politics, and culture of the (current) age. The overarching themes that are underscored while telling that story are usually cited as the main attraction, but it does not lack mystery, military and hand to hand action, political intrigue, grimness, hope, redemption, philosophy, camaraderie, and humor and if you love the world building, it certainly has that. I hope you do read it, and then make a channel so I can watch. Lol. Have a good one. Cheers.
The scorpion fight is, if not a foreshadowing of how the Fourteenth operates in battle, a very good demonstration of cold iron vs. hot iron an ongoing and loosely explained theme in these books.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read The wheel of time Stormlight archive Mistborn (era 1) Warbreaker Lightbringer I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
Yeah, the jade giants are very confusing. Regarding the scorpion fights, allied soldiers at Anzio really did have scorpion fights and mule races to break the boredom. Those more lighthearted moments are necessary imho to break from the otherwise really depressing elements of this book. But I really think you will enjoy Tides and a new dynamic duo.
I think with Tavore it’s about the mystery and all the emotion inside of her that we don’t see from outside eyes. That’s why we don’t really get her POV. She’s a mysterious character through and through
Thanks for not sugar-coating your review Mike. It helps to hear frustrations from you that echo my own. The series is not without merit however, and I'm still committed to the read-along (the respites between books is helpful). The fanboys are really talking up Midnight Tides, so August 1st, let's do this!
That's a shame you didn't enjoy the middle section of the House of Chains. It's no surprise you liked the first part the most ; the narrative style is written in a way that feels familiar to traditional fantasy readers, and of course, it contains Karsa ! The two sections in between the first & last part, like most Malazan books, require full concentration and focus ( and possibly a re-read ) to grasp fully. As for Tavore - you didn't pick up on it, but she's not truly cold & heartless. We never get inside her head to absolutely know what she's thinking, but some of her actions and words, particularly when she's in the company of trusted confidants, show us that mentally she is in turmoil about Felisin. If a reader, for whatever reason doesn't pick up on those cues, then the ending will feel less impactful/tragic.
@@ryanoneal8480 I’m on TTH and I gotta agree. MT is a slow burn but very good (well ig all Malazan books are slow burns but MT, RG and TTH especially). RG is my fav of the books and TTH is shaping to be even better. All the books have gotten better progressively for me apart from HoC being worse than MoI.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read The wheel of time Stormlight archive Mistborn (era 1) Warbreaker Lightbringer I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor I would say you might be overthinking it. Don't let anyone gatekeep Malazan for you. Yea it is a bit more dense then Brandon Sanderson, but I'm betting you're a smart guy and you can figure it out.
I always enjoy hearing your thoughts, Mike. I especially liked the Conan and Karsa comparison. Although we had completely different experiences of House of Chains, you did a great job explaining your personal preferences. I still think there’s a huge chance you might enjoy Midnight Tides!
I'm with you. My take: Midnight Tides does in it's entirety what House of Chains Book 1 did. I love House of Chains purely for the Karsa story and I still consider it my favorite part of the series up to this point, the rest was just "okay". I guess it comes down to I really like a story, and the parts of BotF that tell a story are great. Having been going back through WoT and The Faithful and the Fallen in audio form has reminded me of how appealing a story can be when you feel like you're making progress, like the things that happen moved the plot along without trying to make a big secret out of it. That doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying BotF, it's just a different beast, with a lot of good parts and a lot of things that are told in ways that I'm just not used to (and honestly can enjoy, but don't prefer).
You've gotta remember that a lot of the chaff or stuff you would have cut from the book is fleshing out reveals and connections to various other stories which eventually comes full circle and will give you explanations for later scene's eg- Korabas the crucified dragon plays a massive roll in the end story so pay attention to the details or ignore and discover on the re-read it's win win . And yeah Midnights Tides is very very different so enjoy.
Many good parts in this book, uncle Cotillion became awesome and Fiddler became my favorite Malazam character, btw I really liked the scorpion fight. I also liked Pearl and Lestare a lot more in this book compared to DG. Heboric became the Destriant for Trake, like the guy in the Grey Cloaks in MoI. I also liked the storyline of Karsa in HoC
Hey Mike love your spoiler reviews as always! I cant wait to get to Midnight Tides as well. Last time I tried to read malazan, book 4 is where I tapped out (real life got in the way) so now that I'm finally caught up again I'm really excited. I'll agree that this one is my least favorite so far as well, although I still liked it very much. It is definately on the slower side of things when it comes to pacing. Here's to book 5 taking us to a brand new beginning once again!
Just got through the book and I completely agree with your assessment here. I absolutely love Karsa and everything he did. The incredible character work we get with him is unparalleled and easily my favorite part of the series, but the rest was tough to get through. I feel like even the characters I like, I’m not terribly attached to, but I’m not getting anything out of the military presentation.
Yeah Heboric. Treach God of War has chosen him as his Destriant. And Heboric is carrying the alien power of the jade statues with him. So that makes him an unpredictable but possibly powerful character.
Thanks for making the videos! I just finished this book and was looking for some takes on it. A lot of the slow parts you mention I have to agree, even though I’m listening to audiobooks I was just in a “power through it “ mode. Which is actually quite easy to do with audiobooks so I can imagine your frustration with actual reading. I did have enough positives to continue on, something drastic would have to happen to make me quit- like I ALMOST quit when I found out the audiobook narrator changed between books 3 and 4- but story wise has captured me enough that I’m too invested to quit. Look forward to checking out your channel for me Malazan videos! Midnight Tides here I come!
House of Chains is the book that most has the "Midnight on the Firing Line" trope going. A lot of stuff for the rest of the series is laid down here. And in later books you'll go, "Oh. That's why he did it." Tavore is a slow burn arc. Erikson himself said he intentionally isolated her in the beginning, much like he did Anomander Rake. And it's not until the end of Bonehunters that we really see her as a person, not just her as Adjunct. Karsa as the dark side of Conan is also definitely a point Erikson made. There's an interesting essay on him. He's not my favorite character. But he's definitely one of the most compelling. And yeah, if the military fantasy isn't for you, The Black Company would be a brutal read. I love the military fantasy, because imho, the mammoth battles are the payoff for seeing them deal with the slog to fight. That said, I thought the Scorpion Fight hilarious. I think you'll love Midnight Tides. It's actually my least favorite. By far. But we seem to like a lot of different things in the series. And this has the least of the things you grouse about.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read The wheel of time Stormlight archive Mistborn (era 1) Warbreaker Lightbringer I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
Not going to lie if you don’t like the whole sitting around campfires with nothing happening vibe then you may indeed be in for a lengthy 6 book chore. It’s not for everyone for sure, my first read I quit about book 5/6 cuz it got so dense and came back month later to finish it and loved it overall enough to be on book 8 of a reread now
I hear you! House of Chains is my least favorite book in the series (along with Toll the Hounds). The next one, Midnight Tides, is probably my favorite of the bunch, so it's going to be really interesting to hear your thoughts on that one. Regarding the atrocities described, this is almost as tough as it gets (there is one section further on in the series that is even worse though).
Always liked the slow build and mystery of Tavore's character. Was def more frustrating earlier on. I'm finishing DoD now, interested to finally finish her arc soon.
HoC is probably my least favorite (other than GotM) so I don't think you're alone there. I think all of the books past this point are a lot more enjoyable, though TtH is quite divisive. very slow, brooding and heavy on the philosophy. interested to see where you land on that one, especially given your feelings for a certain character haha. hate to say it, but there's quite a bit more sitting-around-the-campfire military fantasy stuff in the 2nd half of the series. and it's when the books get even longer (HoC is actually shorter than MoI btw even though it has more pages in the mass market editions). hopefully by then you'll have grown to like the characters more and can come to appreciate scenes like the scorpion fighting ring. they're some of the most enjoyable parts of the series for me.
Yay, my bet is also Dassem :) especially because he has history with kellanved and dancer. On Tavore, I actually think she is depicted as very lonely and I kind of feel for her. I think the lack of perspective or shown emotion emphasizes this loneliness further. Of course I don't know since I just finished house of chains, but I think she might be actually quite sensitive and just not showing.
Just reading this series for the first time and felisin dying hit me not because of pearl and lostra not telling tavore but the fact that felisin was too afraid to take off her helm to show her sister it was her bc she believed the outcome would be no different even if she did
Dude, not only did karsa kill those hounds! He Suplexed one with no fucks given!!! Hahahahaha, I'm glad you are taken by his character as much as I am.
Enjoyed this, Mike. Found myself agreeing with you on the less interesting arcs. Having fallen behind on the readalong it was encouraging to hear you felt book 5 picked up, so might take a week off and then jump into that. Hopefully catch up before you're done!
I am still in this!!! I think House of Chains was a bit of a miss for me, for many of the reasons you outlined. It had its good moments... Karsa, I thought from the beginning that there was no way I would like that character after the first chapter or two. But Erikson put one hell of a character arc into motion with him. That bit when someone was talking about the Bridgeburners ascending... I got chills. But yeah. Not a bad book, but not the best Malazan book so far. I will be reading the third Bauchelain and Korbal Broach book in a few days. Then on to Midnight TIdes in August.
idk reading this books i started understanding a lot about this world, races and channel associations and everything i rly liked this one and was probably my favorite (im on the first read), i actually liked pretty much everything about this book except the first book though i liked karsa story later.
HoC was hard for me, I will do a break from Malazan to read something different. It's a reread for me, so I'm looking forward to see you meeting old favorite characters again and getting to learn new ones - and lots of badass fighting as well.
First time reader with the unpopular opinion here compared to both vets and other first timers. Feels strange, lol. Karsa is my favorite character, easily. But yeah, I pretty much loved everything about this book except for the intro of the 14th, which was rather quick for me to get used to; maybe I love military fantasy more than I thought, lol. Honestly Mike, I think this may be just be a cause of taste on your part, which is fine. I hate Midnight Tides, so maybe you'll love it. And I loved Pearl and Lostara! Also, according to some vets, apparently we know nothing about the Ototoral Dragon. Nothing, even by the end of the story. So maybe something for other books by Esslemont or Erikson. Fun fact here: Tavore is Erikson's favorite character. I like her, since I like stoic characters, and even then, she's definitely being seen in a biased light from everyone else since we never get a POV from her. It will always make me sad that Felisin is one of the few that just stay dead, but I at least know that Hood will give her a better afterlife than her mortal one. So yeah, loved this book, hate the next one. I do not get why people rank that as the greatest book in the series, or even as one of the best. That was a slog for me, I get the point, but I did not care about anyone in Midnight Tides.
I think if you are constantly looking for revenge and for the bad guys to get their comeuppance you may be disappointed by this series. Having said that house of chains is definitely my least favourite of the series. I did love the military humour though.
Aw, too bad you didn't like it as much. But I understand why. It wasn't my favourite either, even though I liked it. Looking forward to Midnight Tides, and hope it's as good as everyone says it is. 🤞🏼
I didn't like House of Chains but I got the feeling that things were going to get better after this book. Got to Midnight tides and I'm glad I was right. It was a fantastic book and my favourite of the series so far. Trull Sengar has to be one of the best characters ever written by Erikson.
I have some things, as some who has read all ten. Book 3 of house of chains is in my opinion the worst part of the series. It's not that book six is where is start but more like the start of the end. Midnight Tides is my favourite. I agree that the sitting around is not that interesting to read. I think you will enjoy Tavour's arch more from now on. From your spoiler talks I feel like you'll enjoy Dust of Dreams.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read The wheel of time Stormlight archive Mistborn (era 1) Warbreaker Lightbringer I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor if you have read WoT, and was able to keep track of the characters then you can handle Malazan. Check out Iskar Jarak's channel he has three or four spoiler free videos on what to expect, why you should read, synopsis' etc.
I think I like House of Chains more than most, but the book is pretty divisive. Your opinions on it aren't necessarily as controversial as you seem to think, so no worries if you weren't as positive as you could be. I think most of your audience is appreciative that you don't go overly positive to play things up to fans, and like your honest opinions good or bad.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read The wheel of time Stormlight archive Mistborn (era 1) Warbreaker Lightbringer I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor The only real way to know if you like it is to try it really, but I'll be the first to admit it's not for everyone. It's my favorite fantasy series, but it's dense. I generally read about 50% slower than I would on any other series because of the packed in details. I also think it demands a bit more of readers, it kind of expects you not to understand everything at first but to be looking to make sense of things and figuring out how parts of the story connect. Sometimes emotional beats even come from unspoken words or just reading someone's body language, it really wants you to read into things instead of engaging passively. It's okay to not understand everything immediately, but I think it'll land best on readers that see that as a mystery to solve than ones that get upset because they weren't told exactly what's happening. I also think that this series will just fall super flat to anyone using an audiobook. Audiobooks are great for passive listening while doing other things, but I think Malazan kind of requires active reading to get the most out of it.
Found this one tough to get through. Gotta say I’m not lovin Malazan months at the moment, and I’m hearing things about MT which isn’t really inspiring me for the rest of the series.
i think this book is meh????? sorry, the wrong side won.... i am hating this author??????????? I want the whirlwind goddess to win so that said it started off great then went south.
Yeah sounds like these books really aren't for you dude. If you think the very short sections of the soldiers in this book are boring then I don't know what you expected. The scorpion scene is one most malazan readers remember fondly. And your lack of attention when reading this is coming across as a bit arrogant. Sounds like the whole onrack and Trull arc just went over your head. When that arc is needed for the revelations on shaik and the whirlind. The whrilwind is the lover onrack cheated on. But yeah man you do you keep up whatever you wana do. But I've heard you ask a few times if this is for you and just from you're reviews it sounds like they're not man
And it sounds like my coverage of the series isn't for you. I'll always be honest with how I feel and if it doesn't align with you, that's a shame. But calling someone arrogant because they feel differently than you is some spectacular gaslighting. Take it easy!
@@mikesbookreviews all the best pal but maybe try rewatching your review before accusing me of gaslighting because I critiqued you. Gaslighting is a very serious form of mental abuse and its a disservice to equate it me commenting that some of that review had hints of arrogance in it. It was probably for humour but it came across as slightly offensive and superior to the subjects around the book. The 'compelling stuff' for example it could sound like you are looking down your nose at the people who genuinely did find that section compelling. Good luck with the rest of the series if you're still thinking about doing it.
You will absolutely be disappointed by Malazan by book 8 or 9. It does not deliver on any of its interesting storylines or character arcs. Ruins several of the few good characters. It would be better to stop after Midnight Tides.
You’re correct about Onrack and Kilava. Tavore’s arc was a slow burn for me, for sure. Like many other elements of the series, there are things that don’t seem to have much importance for a while, but they end up contributing to something big or to moments that can catch you off guard with the emotional impact. No surprise to me that Karsa is a favorite for you - he gets even cooler later. Once again, many of your guesses are excellent, but no comment from me on them other than that! Awesome to hear your thoughts, both the good and the bad!
Hi Philip, I just saw that Iskar Jarak has a video up for The God is not Willing. He asks in the comment section about people getting advanced copies. Seeing you pop up in the comment section here I realise that I just assumed that you have that sorted. If not and you want a copy I don't mind sending you one.
@@brush2canvas849 Hi! Even though I’d love to, I can’t watch Iskar’s video yet because I don’t have The God Is Not Willing. I’m planning to read it when it’s released here in the States and discuss it with A.P. Canavan. The two of us should be finishing our reread of The Malazan Book of the Fallen and our read of Novels of the Malazan Empire right around the time of the release in November. So, I was holding off, though it’s not easy to wait! That said, I won’t refuse such a generous gesture as you have proposed. I’ll get in touch with my address. Many thanks!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy no problem. Take it as compensation for all those marathon comment sessions I made you endure.
@@brush2canvas849 Ha ha! But I love your comments, so I’m doubly rewarded!
The problem with House of Chains is that Erikson goes hard on the "This series is meant to be reread" strategy. I agree with almost all of your gripes with this book (except for the military stuff, I love that) but after getting through the whole series and rereading this book, there is so much more to enjoy that just goes over our heads the first time. You probably are hearing that with every book so far but that is just the case with Malazan. The thing with Tavore and her being not an interesting character is that you are almost never in her head. Every time she is in a chapter it is almost exclusively someone else's POV. Which I understand, still doesn't make her an interesting character to read, but she ended up being one of my favorite characters by the end because of how mysterious her motivations and thoughts are kept. If it makes you feel any better about continuing the series, Midnight Tides is IMO in the top 3 if not #1 of the entire series. It is a complete change of pace from the military aspect and is extremely character driven. Also contains my favorite duo in fantasy. Anyways, love hearing your thoughts on the books no matter if they are good or bad!
I will say I never thought Tavore was boring. We aren’t in her head but we learn about how intelligent she is, and confident in her decisions she is. Her intellect and wisdom shown through this book tells you a lot. But that’s only if you’re paying attention to Erikson’s “show don’t tell” storytelling
Felisin Younger - her sections just broke my heart. You mentioned it, but the line where he says "We all knew, and yet, we did nothing." was extremely emotional for me - and such a sad reality for so many people in abusive situations.
Karsa is by far my favorite character, which feels strange seeing how I feel about Bidithal, but the conversation around consent with Karsa and his people feels VERY different - and I love that Erikson is able to show both sides without forcing a judgement on the reader. It's just so well done!
My least favorite by far is also Tavore's sections, but this was still my second favorite of the four (after Deadhouse Gates).
The Karsa situation feels like when you read an antihero like the punisher or lobo, whonyou know are not nice People, but they are fighting even worse People and you end up cheering for them.
I agree that felisins overall story was tragic, but it also felt pointless to me. She never had any agency til the end. I legitimately don’t understand why he made her Shaik reborn and then did nothing with it.
@@orangecardman7905 I can see why it can feel like nothing was done, but I feel like that story was a character story, rather than a world story. Felisin never had agency, and she tried to gain that agency by becoming Shaik and gaining that power - all to never really have power and still lose everything to her sister (whom she had so much rage and wanted revenge against for two entire novels). I don't necessarily think this had a "point" other than showing the damage that is caused from cruelty and overall lack of compassion.
@@ravenbellebooks5665 yeah you‘re right. I just felt like there was a better story in there.
@@orangecardman7905 the Talon are OP
Hey I wanted to give some spoilery thoughts
1. The Felisin part is a bit tragic for me when she did not realize her sister loved her. What is more tragic is that Erikson confirmed in a recent interview that Felisin was the shadow whose life was exchanged with Paran's in Gardens of the Moon. This makes it so much worse. I hope the exchange is worth it though. This really felt like some greek tragedy
2. The part about Tavore for me was that we never actually got to know her. We are only seeing her through the eyes of the soldiers. She has to be strong in front of them because of how bleak the situation is. We never once got her point of view and everything we know about her is surmised by how people think she felt. We never for one know how she actually feels about any of the bleak things happening
3. I also found this book a bit slow but I loved Karsa. He was just amazing and I am happy he killed so many people at the end. He also started showing compassion in the end
4. Lostara's take was about compassion. She knew that it was going to break Tavore if she mentioned that she killed Felisin. Tavore might find out later but as of now, Lostara thinks that they are the only ones who know that Felisin was Shaik and they believe they will never tell Tavore that
If you don't like the boys betting on scorpions and sitting around campfires, you might want to avoid Glen Cook's Black Company completely.
Tavore and the 14th are the real heroes of Malazan for me.
Haha I made this exact comment in a previous video. If someone likes military fantasy, nothing beats Glen Cook, but if it's not their bag, no real reason to read them.
@@BooksRebound I'm ambivalent towards the rest of those but I adore Robin Hobb's works.
@@BooksRebound Guess there's no accounting for taste. I finished The Golden Fool today and there's some revelations in it about someone I thought I knew that just pulled the rug out from under me. I felt just how Fitz did in that situation. These books are real page-turners for me.
That was probably a top 5 scene in the book for me! LOVED IT
Mike, this is why I love watching your read through. As a Malazan fan, I can watch any video on Malaztube and get video gushing on how every part is just hidden genius from people who have already finished or reread 3 times and are looking back through rose tinted shades. This is more accurately how I felt on my first reading of House of Chains. Looking back, yes , now that I've read more I feel differently about Tavore and HoC the way this series goes, its kind of like a puzzle with no edge pieces. You only get those once youve put the rest of the pieces together incorrectly. 😆 Karsa is awesome and gets even better when you see him next, I think you'll start to like Trull Sengar more when you see him next as well. Good luck, hope the next book is pure unperturbed joy for you. Cheers.
Amen
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to books. This is what I have read
The wheel of time
Stormlight archive
Mistborn (era 1)
Warbreaker
Lightbringer
I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor I had only read Discworld when I picked it up in like 2012. IDK that you have to have reading qualifications to be able to read Malazan. It really is up to personal taste, imo. The fact that you can obviously stick with a long series might be helpful. Erikson writes with a rhythm or cadence that I immediately fell into. If you arent able to get used to his style you may have issues. Then again maybe not. I really don't want to be the gatekeeper here. Lol Sorry. I think you should try it if you are interested in learning the story, but not just to have it under your belt. If you don't enjoy it don't hesitate to DNF cause depending on your reading speed it could take up a lot of your time. As a synopsis ; it is a glimpse into a very eventful period in the storied history of the Malazan Empire that seeks expansion. The wars, religion, politics, and culture of the (current) age. The overarching themes that are underscored while telling that story are usually cited as the main attraction, but it does not lack mystery, military and hand to hand action, political intrigue, grimness, hope, redemption, philosophy, camaraderie, and humor and if you love the world building, it certainly has that. I hope you do read it, and then make a channel so I can watch. Lol. Have a good one. Cheers.
Agreed! Give it a shot. Worst case, it’s not for you and you can grab something else, but you may connect with it and the payoff at the end is big!
The scorpion fight is, if not a foreshadowing of how the Fourteenth operates in battle, a very good demonstration of cold iron vs. hot iron an ongoing and loosely explained theme in these books.
Joyful Union!!!!
Really interesting video, Mike.
It is a pity that you didn't enjoy this one, but I hope that you enjoy the next one.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read
The wheel of time
Stormlight archive
Mistborn (era 1)
Warbreaker
Lightbringer
I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
So happy to see you commenting on mike's channel!
Yeah, the jade giants are very confusing.
Regarding the scorpion fights, allied soldiers at Anzio really did have scorpion fights and mule races to break the boredom.
Those more lighthearted moments are necessary imho to break from the otherwise really depressing elements of this book.
But I really think you will enjoy Tides and a new dynamic duo.
I think with Tavore it’s about the mystery and all the emotion inside of her that we don’t see from outside eyes. That’s why we don’t really get her POV. She’s a mysterious character through and through
This one isn’t my favorite either. And Tavore just doesn’t give much… And don’t worry about the Heboric stuff, it’s not clear yet. Great video!
Is Heboric stuff even clear at the end of the series, though? Haha, I finished it and still didn't understand it fully, just on some surface level :-)
Thanks for not sugar-coating your review Mike. It helps to hear frustrations from you that echo my own. The series is not without merit however, and I'm still committed to the read-along (the respites between books is helpful). The fanboys are really talking up Midnight Tides, so August 1st, let's do this!
Tavore is definitely a slow burn, but I think it pays off in the end.
The BoneHunters start kicking ass too.
That's a shame you didn't enjoy the middle section of the House of Chains. It's no surprise you liked the first part the most ; the narrative style is written in a way that feels familiar to traditional fantasy readers, and of course, it contains Karsa ! The two sections in between the first & last part, like most Malazan books, require full concentration and focus ( and possibly a re-read ) to grasp fully. As for Tavore - you didn't pick up on it, but she's not truly cold & heartless. We never get inside her head to absolutely know what she's thinking, but some of her actions and words, particularly when she's in the company of trusted confidants, show us that mentally she is in turmoil about Felisin. If a reader, for whatever reason doesn't pick up on those cues, then the ending will feel less impactful/tragic.
Sounds like paradise… reading by the beach in a hammock! Life goals
I think that you will likely enjoy midnight tides based on your military fantasy thoughts from this book. It is a change in style.
Midnight Tides and Reapers Gale are two of the best imo. Hell, I like the second have of mbotf a lot more then the first half.
@@ryanoneal8480 I’m on TTH and I gotta agree. MT is a slow burn but very good (well ig all Malazan books are slow burns but MT, RG and TTH especially). RG is my fav of the books and TTH is shaping to be even better. All the books have gotten better progressively for me apart from HoC being worse than MoI.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read
The wheel of time
Stormlight archive
Mistborn (era 1)
Warbreaker
Lightbringer
I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor I would say you might be overthinking it. Don't let anyone gatekeep Malazan for you. Yea it is a bit more dense then Brandon Sanderson, but I'm betting you're a smart guy and you can figure it out.
@@BooksRebound wow thanks man. Gardens of the moon will be in my bookshelf soon.
Midnight Tides has arguably the best pair of characters in the series, at least.
If you're named Felisin you have it hard in the Malazan books it seems. But Karsa killed Bidithal in a fashion that he truly deserved. Very satisfying
I always enjoy hearing your thoughts, Mike. I especially liked the Conan and Karsa comparison. Although we had completely different experiences of House of Chains, you did a great job explaining your personal preferences. I still think there’s a huge chance you might enjoy Midnight Tides!
I'm with you. My take: Midnight Tides does in it's entirety what House of Chains Book 1 did. I love House of Chains purely for the Karsa story and I still consider it my favorite part of the series up to this point, the rest was just "okay". I guess it comes down to I really like a story, and the parts of BotF that tell a story are great. Having been going back through WoT and The Faithful and the Fallen in audio form has reminded me of how appealing a story can be when you feel like you're making progress, like the things that happen moved the plot along without trying to make a big secret out of it. That doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying BotF, it's just a different beast, with a lot of good parts and a lot of things that are told in ways that I'm just not used to (and honestly can enjoy, but don't prefer).
You've gotta remember that a lot of the chaff or stuff you would have cut from the book is fleshing out reveals and connections to various other stories which eventually comes full circle and will give you explanations for later scene's eg- Korabas the crucified dragon plays a massive roll in the end story so pay attention to the details or ignore and discover on the re-read it's win win . And yeah Midnights Tides is very very different so enjoy.
Many good parts in this book, uncle Cotillion became awesome and Fiddler became my favorite Malazam character, btw I really liked the scorpion fight. I also liked Pearl and Lestare a lot more in this book compared to DG. Heboric became the Destriant for Trake, like the guy in the Grey Cloaks in MoI. I also liked the storyline of Karsa in HoC
Hey Mike love your spoiler reviews as always! I cant wait to get to Midnight Tides as well. Last time I tried to read malazan, book 4 is where I tapped out (real life got in the way) so now that I'm finally caught up again I'm really excited. I'll agree that this one is my least favorite so far as well, although I still liked it very much. It is definately on the slower side of things when it comes to pacing. Here's to book 5 taking us to a brand new beginning once again!
Just got through the book and I completely agree with your assessment here. I absolutely love Karsa and everything he did. The incredible character work we get with him is unparalleled and easily my favorite part of the series, but the rest was tough to get through. I feel like even the characters I like, I’m not terribly attached to, but I’m not getting anything out of the military presentation.
Yeah Heboric. Treach God of War has chosen him as his Destriant. And Heboric is carrying the alien power of the jade statues with him. So that makes him an unpredictable but possibly powerful character.
Thanks for making the videos! I just finished this book and was looking for some takes on it. A lot of the slow parts you mention I have to agree, even though I’m listening to audiobooks I was just in a “power through it “ mode. Which is actually quite easy to do with audiobooks so I can imagine your frustration with actual reading. I did have enough positives to continue on, something drastic would have to happen to make me quit- like I ALMOST quit when I found out the audiobook narrator changed between books 3 and 4- but story wise has captured me enough that I’m too invested to quit. Look forward to checking out your channel for me Malazan videos! Midnight Tides here I come!
House of Chains is the book that most has the "Midnight on the Firing Line" trope going. A lot of stuff for the rest of the series is laid down here. And in later books you'll go, "Oh. That's why he did it." Tavore is a slow burn arc. Erikson himself said he intentionally isolated her in the beginning, much like he did Anomander Rake. And it's not until the end of Bonehunters that we really see her as a person, not just her as Adjunct.
Karsa as the dark side of Conan is also definitely a point Erikson made. There's an interesting essay on him. He's not my favorite character. But he's definitely one of the most compelling.
And yeah, if the military fantasy isn't for you, The Black Company would be a brutal read. I love the military fantasy, because imho, the mammoth battles are the payoff for seeing them deal with the slog to fight. That said, I thought the Scorpion Fight hilarious.
I think you'll love Midnight Tides. It's actually my least favorite. By far. But we seem to like a lot of different things in the series. And this has the least of the things you grouse about.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read
The wheel of time
Stormlight archive
Mistborn (era 1)
Warbreaker
Lightbringer
I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor u can’t really explain what Malazan is about
I agree that pear and lostara Yil could have been cut out of the story, but I just think pearls funny so I didn’t mind those parts
The review was fair enough. I am really excited for your Midnight Tides read. MT is my #1!
Still plodding on through Gardens of the moon, only thing thats keeping me going is Mike's enthusiasm..
Not going to lie if you don’t like the whole sitting around campfires with nothing happening vibe then you may indeed be in for a lengthy 6 book chore. It’s not for everyone for sure, my first read I quit about book 5/6 cuz it got so dense and came back month later to finish it and loved it overall enough to be on book 8 of a reread now
I will put my last dollar on a bet that you WILL give a damn about Tavore.
I hear you! House of Chains is my least favorite book in the series (along with Toll the Hounds). The next one, Midnight Tides, is probably my favorite of the bunch, so it's going to be really interesting to hear your thoughts on that one. Regarding the atrocities described, this is almost as tough as it gets (there is one section further on in the series that is even worse though).
Always liked the slow build and mystery of Tavore's character. Was def more frustrating earlier on. I'm finishing DoD now, interested to finally finish her arc soon.
HoC is probably my least favorite (other than GotM) so I don't think you're alone there. I think all of the books past this point are a lot more enjoyable, though TtH is quite divisive. very slow, brooding and heavy on the philosophy. interested to see where you land on that one, especially given your feelings for a certain character haha.
hate to say it, but there's quite a bit more sitting-around-the-campfire military fantasy stuff in the 2nd half of the series. and it's when the books get even longer (HoC is actually shorter than MoI btw even though it has more pages in the mass market editions). hopefully by then you'll have grown to like the characters more and can come to appreciate scenes like the scorpion fighting ring. they're some of the most enjoyable parts of the series for me.
Yay, my bet is also Dassem :) especially because he has history with kellanved and dancer.
On Tavore, I actually think she is depicted as very lonely and I kind of feel for her. I think the lack of perspective or shown emotion emphasizes this loneliness further. Of course I don't know since I just finished house of chains, but I think she might be actually quite sensitive and just not showing.
Just reading this series for the first time and felisin dying hit me not because of pearl and lostra not telling tavore but the fact that felisin was too afraid to take off her helm to show her sister it was her bc she believed the outcome would be no different even if she did
Dude, not only did karsa kill those hounds! He Suplexed one with no fucks given!!! Hahahahaha, I'm glad you are taken by his character as much as I am.
Enjoyed this, Mike. Found myself agreeing with you on the less interesting arcs. Having fallen behind on the readalong it was encouraging to hear you felt book 5 picked up, so might take a week off and then jump into that. Hopefully catch up before you're done!
I have only ever read LotR (and recently) and decided to begin Malazan. This one was my favorite so far! I am struggling with Midnight Tides slightly
I am still in this!!! I think House of Chains was a bit of a miss for me, for many of the reasons you outlined. It had its good moments... Karsa, I thought from the beginning that there was no way I would like that character after the first chapter or two. But Erikson put one hell of a character arc into motion with him. That bit when someone was talking about the Bridgeburners ascending... I got chills. But yeah. Not a bad book, but not the best Malazan book so far. I will be reading the third Bauchelain and Korbal Broach book in a few days. Then on to Midnight TIdes in August.
I admire your dedication to this.
This one is good to have a bunch of day drinks for!
It’s okay to be wrong mike. I forgive you.
idk reading this books i started understanding a lot about this world, races and channel associations and everything i rly liked this one and was probably my favorite (im on the first read), i actually liked pretty much everything about this book except the first book though i liked karsa story later.
Yeah this book made the world feel so much more interconnected and fleshed out, I loved it. Reminded me a bit of Dance With Dragons/Feast For Crows
You finally did it, congrats ! :)
Yeah, I was pretty meh with Tavore at this point but books 6, 7 and part of 9 have made me love her.
HoC was hard for me, I will do a break from Malazan to read something different. It's a reread for me, so I'm looking forward to see you meeting old favorite characters again and getting to learn new ones - and lots of badass fighting as well.
First time reader with the unpopular opinion here compared to both vets and other first timers. Feels strange, lol. Karsa is my favorite character, easily. But yeah, I pretty much loved everything about this book except for the intro of the 14th, which was rather quick for me to get used to; maybe I love military fantasy more than I thought, lol. Honestly Mike, I think this may be just be a cause of taste on your part, which is fine. I hate Midnight Tides, so maybe you'll love it. And I loved Pearl and Lostara! Also, according to some vets, apparently we know nothing about the Ototoral Dragon. Nothing, even by the end of the story. So maybe something for other books by Esslemont or Erikson.
Fun fact here: Tavore is Erikson's favorite character. I like her, since I like stoic characters, and even then, she's definitely being seen in a biased light from everyone else since we never get a POV from her. It will always make me sad that Felisin is one of the few that just stay dead, but I at least know that Hood will give her a better afterlife than her mortal one.
So yeah, loved this book, hate the next one. I do not get why people rank that as the greatest book in the series, or even as one of the best. That was a slog for me, I get the point, but I did not care about anyone in Midnight Tides.
HoC was my least favourite this far, but afterwards I feel it just went way up. Hope it will be the same for you! 🥰
I think if you are constantly looking for revenge and for the bad guys to get their comeuppance you may be disappointed by this series.
Having said that house of chains is definitely my least favourite of the series. I did love the military humour though.
This book for me would've been worth an extra star rating if it had been just about Karsa. Until he went on his "My Kingdom for a Horse" side quest.
Scorpion fight was funny. Loved it. Joyful Union was great
Aw, too bad you didn't like it as much. But I understand why. It wasn't my favourite either, even though I liked it. Looking forward to Midnight Tides, and hope it's as good as everyone says it is. 🤞🏼
I didn't like House of Chains but I got the feeling that things were going to get better after this book. Got to Midnight tides and I'm glad I was right. It was a fantastic book and my favourite of the series so far. Trull Sengar has to be one of the best characters ever written by Erikson.
This book was a bit of a drag but the hope of seeing more Karsa kept me going
God dang you nailed the good and bad of this book
What's the picture on the top of the wall next to the clock? (Looks like a map)
I actually enjoyed it except the tavore parts but still a good book and yet tragic as well I'm still furious about felisin
Oh Felisin..
Heck ya.
Well if it helps at all, Midnight Tides is epic!
I think HoC is the strongest thematically out of the first 4
I think MoI and DG are both stronger thematically
I have some things, as some who has read all ten. Book 3 of house of chains is in my opinion the worst part of the series. It's not that book six is where is start but more like the start of the end. Midnight Tides is my favourite. I agree that the sitting around is not that interesting to read. I think you will enjoy Tavour's arch more from now on. From your spoiler talks I feel like you'll enjoy Dust of Dreams.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read
The wheel of time
Stormlight archive
Mistborn (era 1)
Warbreaker
Lightbringer
I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor if you have read WoT, and was able to keep track of the characters then you can handle Malazan. Check out Iskar Jarak's channel he has three or four spoiler free videos on what to expect, why you should read, synopsis' etc.
by the way, have you heard about the new dune exclusive trailer that's coming soon.
I think I like House of Chains more than most, but the book is pretty divisive. Your opinions on it aren't necessarily as controversial as you seem to think, so no worries if you weren't as positive as you could be. I think most of your audience is appreciative that you don't go overly positive to play things up to fans, and like your honest opinions good or bad.
Dude u r a malazan fan right. I am a newbie to fantasy. This is what I have read
The wheel of time
Stormlight archive
Mistborn (era 1)
Warbreaker
Lightbringer
I have heard lot about malazan. But idk if i am ready for it. Think of those above series as my resume and tell me if i am ready and if I will like it. Also if u can gimme a bare bones synopsis what malazan is about without spoiling anything. Thank you for helping a newbie.
@@Kal_Al_Thor The only real way to know if you like it is to try it really, but I'll be the first to admit it's not for everyone. It's my favorite fantasy series, but it's dense. I generally read about 50% slower than I would on any other series because of the packed in details.
I also think it demands a bit more of readers, it kind of expects you not to understand everything at first but to be looking to make sense of things and figuring out how parts of the story connect. Sometimes emotional beats even come from unspoken words or just reading someone's body language, it really wants you to read into things instead of engaging passively.
It's okay to not understand everything immediately, but I think it'll land best on readers that see that as a mystery to solve than ones that get upset because they weren't told exactly what's happening. I also think that this series will just fall super flat to anyone using an audiobook. Audiobooks are great for passive listening while doing other things, but I think Malazan kind of requires active reading to get the most out of it.
I just finished the series. This is probably my least favorite book with the exception of the Karsa sections
Don't tell him about the next book guys
agree on tavore being boring...i just speed read those parts. in fact i'm not a fan of the whole bridgeburner/army thing
Found this one tough to get through. Gotta say I’m not lovin Malazan months at the moment, and I’m hearing things about MT which isn’t really inspiring me for the rest of the series.
Tavore is boring for sure right now
HoC Book 1 great, the rest is a chore. Book 5 is a gem. Enjoy.
:D
i think this book is meh????? sorry, the wrong side won.... i am hating this author??????????? I want the whirlwind goddess to win so that said it started off great then went south.
You should feel accomplished, you’ve passed the worst book in the series. :) it goes way up from here on out!
Yeah sounds like these books really aren't for you dude. If you think the very short sections of the soldiers in this book are boring then I don't know what you expected. The scorpion scene is one most malazan readers remember fondly. And your lack of attention when reading this is coming across as a bit arrogant. Sounds like the whole onrack and Trull arc just went over your head. When that arc is needed for the revelations on shaik and the whirlind. The whrilwind is the lover onrack cheated on. But yeah man you do you keep up whatever you wana do. But I've heard you ask a few times if this is for you and just from you're reviews it sounds like they're not man
And it sounds like my coverage of the series isn't for you. I'll always be honest with how I feel and if it doesn't align with you, that's a shame. But calling someone arrogant because they feel differently than you is some spectacular gaslighting. Take it easy!
@@mikesbookreviews all the best pal but maybe try rewatching your review before accusing me of gaslighting because I critiqued you. Gaslighting is a very serious form of mental abuse and its a disservice to equate it me commenting that some of that review had hints of arrogance in it. It was probably for humour but it came across as slightly offensive and superior to the subjects around the book. The 'compelling stuff' for example it could sound like you are looking down your nose at the people who genuinely did find that section compelling. Good luck with the rest of the series if you're still thinking about doing it.
Your x 4 and you're x 1
@@brentasmith sorry dude I'm working in a kitchen right now just trying to reply as quick as possible
You will absolutely be disappointed by Malazan by book 8 or 9. It does not deliver on any of its interesting storylines or character arcs. Ruins several of the few good characters. It would be better to stop after Midnight Tides.
I cannot disagree with this more haha