Filmmaker Reacts: World of Warcraft - Shadowlands Cinematic
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- Опубликовано: 26 дек 2023
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It's still Nerzhul in there. His essence was always stationary in the armor and forms one half of the Lich King. Bolvar and Arthus always had to fight to stay in control Bolvar especially because he wasn't corrupted first like Arthus was. The armor holds the spirit of Nerzhul. The Lich Kings main power is the telepathic control of the undead. There are many more powerful than the Lich King what made him such a threat was the nature of his power. It's tough to defeat an opponent who can just raise your own dead allies to fight against you as well the ability to relay orders in battle telepathically leads to great coordination the Alliance and Horde got overwhelmed by when first confronted with the undead. The Orcs sailed to Kalimdor while the northern human kingdoms and the High Elves, later renamed Blood Elves, got butchered.
to answer that no this cinematic was the one that told me i will never play WoW again,the Sylvanas breaking the crown was enough symbolism of the path blizz took sadly and wasn't wrong lol considering the mess shadowlands were).(The animation team is still awesome though)
Not really she was my fav WOW character :(
I refer to him as Bolvar Faildragon. He has failed at everything, always.
That's not quite accurate to the current lore. Arthas destroyed the soul of Ner'zhul. What's actually going on might be a spoiler so I'll leave it at that...@@straighttalkwithkyle7947
That's so interesting - from his film maker perspective - he was able to call the fact that she was going to destroy the helm!!! This is my new favorite channel, I love watching his reactions and learning more from the professional side of things
Watching it at Blizzcon was insane, nobody was expecting her to break the helm of domination. We all expected her to put it on. The gasps from everyone in line at the dark moon faire was deafening.
I mean, the way she held it
Its called prewatched...
@@Bileass okay, sorry my bad. Geeze
@@dylnfstr The way she holds it should've been a dead giveaway
it sounds silly but I actually get a little burst of pride every time you use your new knowledge and guess something correctly or remember an obscure character, I love how much you've embraced the Warcraft series and its story, and it shows by how much you're already memorizing
The red turning to blue was actually him embracing the power. He had been fighting it for a long time and during legion he was involved and you create 4 horsemen of death knights as the death knight leader. He tells them that he is losing himself and was prepared to let them kill him. He was going to summon them soon to do it then she comes. He thought she wanted the helm and would rather let it overcome himself than she gain it.
Correct answer
Frostmourne is not what commands the Scourge; the Helm of Domination is what commanded them. Frostmourne was a medium to which Ner'zhul could talk to Arthas and whisper to him many dark secrets including powers of necromancy. So Frostmourne can steal souls and is the "telephone" to which Ner'zhul talked and taught him things so technically you could say it was all Frostmourne.
before this expansion, the shadowlands were touched on only briefly in a couple questlines - we had next to no information about the realm as a whole, it was a big example of entirely new lore (for good and for bad) - we certainly had no idea that the destruction of the Helm of Domination would open a massive rift into the Shadowlands in the sky
people have a myriad of opinions on the afterlife-focused lore introduced in Shadowlands, but you really can't deny the impact of that exploding sky
right, as a casual player, all i knew was that the shadowlands was some kind of parallel dimension, like an opposite to the emerald dream or something.
@@TyarrkOpposite of the emerald dream would probably be the Emerald Nightmare, which we see in Legion
@@blockedperfection9278 No, the Emerald Nightmare was just a corrupted portion of the Emerald Dream. The Emerald Dream itself is a portion of the Realm of Life that was ordered by the Keeper Freya. The Realm of Life is the opposite of the Shadowlands, which is the Realm of Death.
@@SuzakuX Ohhh I see, thanks for the info!
its not neccesarily the case that the destruction of hte helm opened a massive rift, icecrown is where the border between life and death is particularly week, if she had broken the helm in lets say elwynn forest, it probably wouldve done... something... but probably not broken up a rift
From a visual perspective the scene where she's sort of blinded is the best rendition of the "remorseless winter" spell.
Have that on my Forst Death Knight which is my favorite toon in the name.
We knew *of* the shadowlands as the realm of death, but knew NOTHING of it until this. so huge shock all around
Wow,,, this must’ve been insane when it dropped!
@@PhilipHartsyeah. But then it opened a can of worms. Because everyone could just travel back and forth. So everyone could check in for their dead relatives, making death meaningless. Even the death of the big characters. Just go to Shadowlands and wave at them after their death.
@@c.krueger9530Lorewise, the travel is never as simple as it is within the game. Portals take an incredible amount of power to keep open for more than a minute, and large portals that remain open long term start to do damage to the land around them with the Dark Portal being the most prominent example of this.
For gameplay purposes, we can obviously freely go as we please. Canonically, back in WoD we were technically trapped within Draenor for the length of the expansion. Khadgar was the only one with enough power to open portals to our capital cities, but it was only done briefly to get supplies moving, and it was done again to get Varian and Vol'jin to Draenor once the Horde and Aliiance strongholds were secure enough to get them into Draenor.
As far as Shadowlands goes, mortals cannot freely cross over without assistance. Don't forget that the intro quest for Shadowlands required a ritual to let us cross over without dying, and our initial invasion force was specifically the Knights of the Ebon Blade as opposed to our usual Horde/Alliance forces as their undead nature would have less of an effect on them. Others eventually came as well once it was apparent that we wouldn't be trapped there forever, but going to and from Oribos still was a big deal and not the day trip you're making it out to be. The dead still couldn't cross back over into the world of the living under normal circumstances, and lore established that the four main realms we went to were but a fraction of the Shadowlands with HUNDREDS of potential afterlives someone could be sent to (in short, the explanation for why X character didn't show up when people started to complain about certain characters not being seen in Shadowlands)
You are right however. While it was a cool concept, it opened up a ton of potential holes for quite a few pieces of previously established lore, and if you poked hard enough (or in some cases even casually questioned things), some parts of the new lore for Shadowlands made little to no sense.
There are two potential plot hooks that need to be treated extremely carefully within a story: time travel and the afterlife. If the core concept of a story doesn't revolve around them at the start, then the longer a story goes on before one or the other comes into play, the more potential you have to mess things up.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the two most disliked expansions in the franchise are WoD and SL.
@@c.krueger9530 This is a common misconconception of the lore, but being able to freely travel back and forth was only for Shadowlands because the veil was torn. Also there are infinite realms within the shadowlands and not all of them were easily accessible. Lastly, not everyone who went to the Shadowlands retained their memory and form, basically only the few lore characters we do meet there in the expansion.
@@Zoggwogg ¯\(°_o)/¯
I still have the impression of meaningless to the death of big NPC's. Should another character die, I'd just think: ok, I can hop over to Shadowlands and check him out. I'll just ask the golden butter boy and then I'll find that soul.
Anyways I'll stop talking about the storyline of WoW because it makes me feel icky. The trailers are good, but in my opinion Danuser and his team do a bad job.
Bolvar was infused with dragonfire at the Wrathgate to keep the plague at bay, that's the red. The blue is when he taps into the power of the Helm of Domination, as the Lich King, for the fight. The purple chain stuff Sylvanas is cracked out on here makes her very powerful, but also gives her an unfair advantage against the Lich King in particular the reason for which will become apparent later.
You mean he switched from Blood to Frost Spec.
The visual of her power was so cool!
Well done to give context without spoiling the rest.
"No King rules forever, my son" Was told to Arthas from his father. Gotta always love the callbacks Blizzard does in these cinematics haha.
To answer your question about what happened to Frostmourne:
Tiron Fordring shattered Frostmourne with the Ashbringer when we defeated the Lich King, releasing all of the souls that were trapped within the blade. During Legion, Frost Death Knights were tasked with returning to Icecrown Citadel and the Frozen Throne to retrieve the shattered pieces of Frostmourne to reforge into the Blades of the Fallen Prince.
It was overall the Light that did this via Fordragon. But yes, Frostmourne was shattered what weakend any Lich King, no matter who would wear the Crown, massively.
Tirion Fordring, Bolvar Fordragon
So fascinating, and it was interesting to a Lich King without it, that’s cool they repurposed it too!
@@jordonorser7177 Ope, thanks for that! Don't know how I messed that up lol.
@@PhilipHarts another question you had--without frostmourne, bolvar is definitely not as powerful as arthas, as the crown of domination and frostmourne sort of fed into eachother in power--the only reason tirion was able to shatter frostmourne was due to a literal deus ex machina where the light itself empowered him to break free of being encased in ice, and to deliver a blow with the full force of the light.
i love how well you put the pieces together.. like before she broke the helm you were like already on point.. she's gonna break it..
Sylvanas always had boss level strength since she was a strong mortal that was transformed into the strongest banshee, which explains why the skeleton army is afraid of her, but she received a powerup from the new big bad of the Shadowlands to defeat Bolvar here.
Bolvar is a neutral evil indeed. He doesn't occupy the throne for selfish reasons, only to keep undeath in check.
The undead are split into factions. Sylvanas and her people are the "lucky" few that escaped Frostmourne's control. They call themselves the Forsaken to emphasize how, as rogue undead, they have to fight both their former loved ones and their fellow undead.
This was probably the cinematic that shocked me the most. Never would have guessed she was going to rip a hole in the sky :D
As much as I have always enjoyed and appreciated every WoW cinematic... your reactions and explanations have caused me to appreciate them so much more. Little details that most of us just pass over... you pick out and force us to appreciate them. Well done.
Oh wow. I just started delving down the rabbit hole of your channel like, yesterday. Watching you progressively work through these trailers and cutscenes, watching you develop such heartfelt appreciation for them and the story they're telling without having any prior connection to the franchise, watching you so quickly pick up on the lore and story because you pay so much attention to all the wonderful little details. It's an absolute treat to watch this, man.
And now you just happen to drop this reaction just as I start discovering you. What awesome timing, haha!
I think I should warn you about something, though - Shadowlands is a notoriously bad expansion. Not just for the game itself being poorly executed, but even the story and lore seriously fell flat this time around. There are cool things in Shadowlands, and I do look forward to you watching the Afterlives series (this expansion's version of Lords of War, Warbringers, etc), but please do understand that some of the story here gets a little bit ridiculous to the point of not being able to be taken seriously anymore. Just wanted to let you know that in advance.
Anyway, you've earned a subscriber in me, brother! I'm especially excited to check out your FFXIV trailer reactions; I've actually fully switched from WoW to FF and am a full-on FF fanboy now, so that's gonna be fun to see!
Amazing!!! Thank you so much for the kinda words and welcome to the channel! Hope to see you on a stream too, I’ll be live for shadowlands tonight!
Just some context regarding Sylvannas being undead and fighting these other undead beings. The people that Sylvanas lead were specifically the Forsaken. These are primarily (but not entirely) humans from the Lordaeron area, killed and turned to the Scourge, broke free from their control with Sylvannas’ leadership, and then were outcast by the living, so they formed their own people.
The undead she is fighting in this trailer are the Scourge who were controlled first by demons, until Arthas/the Lich King killed them, and took the Frozen Throne/Icecrown Citadel in Northrend.
Bolvar's eyes turn blue when he's activating his Lich King mode, activating the full might of the necromatic powers that come from the helm. He's just red-eye chilling until it's time to fight. The crown allows him dominion over the entire scourge (all undead, except the sentient forsaken, which Sylvanas set free).
A lot of us thought she went to Icecrown specifically to take the Helm of Domination, because its power is unfathomable. Good on you for catching the cinematic clues that she wasn't, it was an incredible shock to the rest of us!
I actually made my Death Knight in WoW during Legion have a very bright orange/red/yellow transmog armor and dual wielded two swords with fiery enchantment transmog on them, while being in frost spec and using ice spells. It gave this very nice visual dissonance and made my party members think Im a warrior at first. I only realized now (I've seen this cinematic many times) how reminiscent of that character the scene with Bolvar putting out his inner fire is.
On Bolvar's power level, he's always resisted the power of the helm rather than be consumed by this darkness. As another comment pointed out, this embrace is his last resort to prevent her from gaining the helm, but he doesnt have a good and mutually willing relationship with the helm as an entity.
Sylvanas was my all time favorite character from Warcraft since Warcraft 3. They took a lot of risks with her in Battle For Azeroth and then into Shadowlands. I knew when she burned the tree that things were getting so real. This trailer was SO EXCITING. I popped off so hard. But then... Her story only goes downhill from here. I got so deflated with what they did with her in Shadowlands.
Her actions in the War of Thorns were already a major character assassination for Sylvanas. She would never have left a mortally wounded Malfurion the way she did, because killing him was what the entire rest of the invasion plan hinged upon. She's been ruined as a character since BfA's prepatch, long before we even knew Shadowlands was the next expansion.
Sylvanas was ruined back in cata, in my opinion she was never really a good character, she was even corrupt in legion.
@@sirzorba7633 Oh I know. Like I said, they took risks with her in BFA. I didn't necessarily agree with them but I held off on ultimate judgment at this point because I wanted to see how things played out. Besides, we know Blizzard is too afraid to kill off the mainstay characters. When she burned the tree, at that moment I accepted the fact that we were going to have to fight her some day and I wasn't looking forward to that idea. And boy did they ever fucking drop the ball there too with the aftermath. I won't say because of spoilers in case someone is reading this who hasn't seen it yet.
I love your views on those cinematics. Because for me as a long long Warcraft fan, i know the characters, i have read all the books, i have seen all cinematics, i play the game. But you dont know whats coming and yet you guessed many things right just from film language, that you can read. You are absolutly right, that she is controlled by someone else or has been given her godlike powers from another powerful being.
The bait and switch at the end where she looks like she's about to put on the helm was great, the idea that she would eventually storm Icecrown and steal the power of the helm for herself has been floating around since she became free of the Lich King's influence in Warcraft3, nearly 20 years before this cinematic was made
I've seen these cinematics so many times but love following your journey through all of these! 😁
I don't believe we have any indication on whether Bolvar or Arthas should be stronger as Lich Kings. I believe Arthas would have the advantage due to having a stronger weapon. It was one of the strongest weapons in existence. Both Bolvar and Arthas were just vessels to be dominated by the helmet. I don't believe there is a clear distinction in power but I'm sure everyone would lean towards Arthas.
IIRC Arthas was stronger in terms of raw strength/power, but Bolvar had a much stronger will/mind, as he was able to keep the helm "in check" and use it's power at will. Normally, Domination magic _steamrolls_ whoever is subject to it; other than Bolvar, Sylvanas (eventually), The Player (because plot) and of course [Redacted] and [Redacted]. When Bolvar changes from red to blue in the cinematic, it's him saying "I'd rather submit to the power and have full access to it but lose myself, than to have her take it" (which ofc doesn't work out so well). At least... this is my understanding
Thank you for putting in the time and learning the game and universe we've loved for 20 years or more. We played through this in real time, our memories and relationships were shaped as we explored these worlds. Your vision and appreciation of this timeline makes us proud and happy.
How has this only 200 upvotes after 1 hour? ... What an amazing analysis!
Thank you so much!!! I loved this one!
Your Castlevania SotN inverted castle comment made me lol for real. 😂
watching your reactions get me so into these videos that i've seen years ago!
Frostmourne was destroyed at the climax of the Lich King fight, by Tyrion Fordring. It was then taken by us, Death Knight players during Legion, reforged as the twin blades artifact weapon for the Frost spec, the Blades of the Fallen Prince. That artifact was then drained of its power to contain/drain the chaotic energy of the Blade of Sargeras so it wouldn't kill the world at the end of Legion. Frostmourne no longer exists in any way.
The blue is the Helm of Domination sort of taking over, with Bolvar using the powers of the Lich King, frost and Dominion over Icecrown itself. Icecrown Citadel was built out of Saronite, a metal infused by the Black Blood of Yogg Saron which the Lich King is able to control to some degree, though it corrupts by its mere presence with the madness of the dead God of Madness.
Sylvanas was there after Arthas's death. She tried to end herself by jumping from the Frothen Throne on spikes of the citadel. But later were resurrected via pact with her cursed valkyries.
The ice storm Bolvar conjures is the same as Arthas cast during a phase of the epic raid fight In Icecrown Citadel, final boss and raid of Wrath of the Lich King. Bolvar's command of the spells Arthas weilded is clunky and slow. He wears the mantle, but it's just a costume. So, Sylvanas' expression at Bolvar is arrogance, yes, but also condescension, pity, as much as she can feel it, for his inadequacy and naïveté. She has acquired Domination magic, to which he had had access through the helm yet never used. She could take the helm from him like candy from a baby, demonstrating that push come to shove, Bolvar could never have withstood the might of the being that gave the helm power as a conduit. These were details we still didn't understand upon release of this Shadowlands teaser cinematic. The power did not reside in the helm. The helm was a conduit of power, and whoever wore it became its thrall, a weapon. Sylvanas was once a thrall to the power via Frostmourne, then she and the Forsaken regained agency and identity during Arthas' weak moment. She thought she was free; but now she knows she is not 100% free. Now that she knows more than the rest of us, she thinks she is in cahoots with, and duping, the Power behind the helm and Frostmourne. Okay, so all that is cool and could have been pretty amazing. BUT, Blizzard was floundering in its organization and storycrafting, in no small part due to Afrasiabi and the misogynist, violative culture within the corporation. So, the writers quickfixed the story only to make it even worse. There is yet some hope that Blizzard will set us straight on who was manipulating whom: layer upon layer of duplicity onion; however, it would require some retconning of "fixes" as shipped in Shadowlands. Nobody really wants to revisit, yet I think all of us who persevered through Shadowlands would appreciate the denouement of the true who is who. I suspect that it'll be tacked on to further storylines regarding the Nathrezim, rather than torture us further with the Shadowlands proper.
So, something I noticed the very first time I saw this cinematic, the shape of the inverted tower, which I presume is Torghast-maybe not- looks like a dark Naaru. Did anybody else notice it, as well? Surely, it's not a coincidence. In fact, the crest ornamentation of ICC and structures in the Maw all look a lot like Naaru bodies, imo.
I really appreciate the depth of analysis you provide. Very insightful, and the perfect mix of speculation while watching, and explanation after watching
when youre yelling the name of a character whos in trouble, you kinda sound like reinhardt from overwatch
"No King rules forever" is also a callback to King Terenas' Menethil's words to Arthas: "No King rules forever, my son"
4:42 I think you're the first person who first react to this video that called out that she was going to destroy the crown
Yes you are correct in assuming Bolvar not quite reaching the height of Arthas power level.
The significance of the fade to blue from red is: Bolvar is spending all his willpower to hold back the influence of the helmet and the power that is behind it (we learn this is the Jailer, the same guy juicing up Slyvanas at this time), when he goes blue, he's giving into the power of the helmet to fight her, his plan was: he either wins and she dies and is weakened enough from the fight, or he loses and she's weakened enough for the Knights of the Ebon Blade (player Death Knights) to finish off whoever is left, because he would be 100% evil at that point, there wouldn't be anymore Bolvar, just the Lich King.
I'm sure other loremasters have already weighed in here, but to use a bit of Dungeons and Dragons parlance about Sylvanas, she is an Elven Ranger as her main class. It's very undead flavored. Bit of Hollow One type stuff sprinkled in. But in recent years, leading up to Shadowlands, she's taken more than a few levels in Warlock, so to speak, and no-one knew. At the time of this cinematic, this is the first time we're beginning to see bits of her borrowed powers from her warlock patron, who we don't know yet. That's why she's so surprisingly powerful and why the reveal is so impactful.
As for the lore around the Lich King's helmet (called the Helm of Domination), it's very Sauron coded (And I think the visual language is very purposeful in making that connection). The dominated and tortured spirit of the first Lich King, Ner-zhul (an Orc warlock), resides in the Helm, as well as Frostmourne. Much like how a portion of the spirit of Sauron resides within the One Ring. This gives the Helm a will of it's own, to a certain extent, and the power is very seductive. That's why Arthas began to fall so fast after taking up Frostmourne. He was quickly corrupted by the spirit within it (much like Isildur was corrupted by the one ring). When Arthas retrieved the Helm of Domination and put it on, he essentially succumbed to the spirit of the Lich King willingly, more or less fusing himself with that of the Lich King and became the second Lich King.
Bolvar, in contrast, wears the helm, but struggles against it's corrupting influence, exerting only the passive level of will required to keep the undead Scourge from actively destroying the world. But when he taps into the full power of the Lich King in the fight with Sylvanas, we see that influence grow over him, at least temporarily, which is shown in the visual language of his normal, simmering red coloration flaring into a full flaming blue, like Arthas had. And when Sylvanas take the helm off Bolvar's head, we see that she, too, is momentarily tempted by the spirit of the Lich King that resides within. But, like Bolvar, she resists it, but to a different end.
Great video for my birthday Phil!
Happy birthday!!!
Watching your reaction to this video is a big nostalgia trip, because your reactions give voice to everything we the player base felt back when this video was first released. At that time, rumors were swirling about what the next expansion would be, and there was a huge rumor that Sylvanas would go to Icecrown, defeat Bolivar, and become the Lich Queen. Adding our anticipation of that development to what was displayed here, when Sylvanas absolutely whipped Bolivar, everyone thought this was rumor confirmed (which would have set off a lot of debate given Sylvanas' history with the previous Lich King) - but for her to destroy the crown instead, and with it the barrier between the Shadowlands and reality in such a dramatic way, well, it was pretty stunning. The big question we had after that moment, and after the ease with which she utterly dominated Bolivar, was the same as your big question: where exactly did this power level come from? Of course, the subsequent events gave us an answer, but yeah, our minds were in exactly the same place as yours after these events. Cool to see. Great reactions!
I feel the shadowlands is a retcon. To my knowledge, the lich king was an agent of the legion. Ner'zhul, the first lich king was bound to the will of the legion. I don't recall while playing warcraft 3 any mention about the shadowlands.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it or heard it, but Sylvanas saying “No king rules forever” is a direct quote from the cutscene of Arthas’ final defeat at the hands of the players in the Icecrown Citadel raid.
Him: "she's gonna break it, she's gonna break it!"
Me: lol, that is but a fraction of the shit she's about to pull
As players we sort of knew, that "the veil" between life and death is thinnest near Icecrown Citadel. But visually, actually shattering the veil and what it would look like. Total suprise" Blew me away, when I saw it. We knew the Shadowlands existed as a sort of realm of death, but we knew almost nothing about it. Certainly not that there is a tower on the other side.
As I understand it when he changes from red to blue he's embracing the power of the lich king.
Also, it doesn't crack the sky. It destroys the barrier between the realm of the living and the realm of the dead.
'No king rules forever, my son' - That's what the ghost of Terenas said to the dying Arthas.
Funnily enough, as reviled as this cutscene is by many; sylvanas' line 'this world is a prison' may well be a hint at the long-term future of the narrative. The logo for WoW: The Last Titan shows a titan prison similar to the ones that were used to bind the primal incarnates, implying that if the titular 'last titan' is indeed Azeroth, the titan facilities around the world are all there to keep her imprisoned while she turns into a titan and prevent outside forces from making her evolve into something else (such as a dark titan, void lord, etc.)
I love your channel and I can’t wait to see you join us in the new direction of WoW !!
can't wait for the reaction to bastion
If you've started playing yet, die ingame in almost any zone on Azeroth, and look up into the sky. You will realize why the sky breaking in this cinematic was such a tell-tale of where we were going. Slight spoiler ahead but its all hinted at in oldschool lore books ingame: When you as a hero die, you go into a limbo state, where the shadowlands borders our world, with the idea being that if you can make it back in time to your body, your soul is not snatched up and brought to the shadowlands proper. And you are able to return from death. I really hope the zone remake features shadowlands interactions in the limbo state going forwards.
So the reason why her breaking the helm wasn't obvious is that the shot of her pulling the helmet up is a recreation of the Warcraft 3 cutscene where Arthas first put on the helm.
So we werent sure if she was going to use the helm to some how break the Undead freedom or maybe had a new way to use the power of the lich king, possibly continue to the war against the Alliance and Horde. etc.
So glad to be part of the journey
Man, you called things so well, and on-point with how these events are described/the veil that broke and everything. I won't say for how much as to your speculation is right and wrong, that'll be for the cutscene journey :) Hearing you break down how the cinematics make you feel that without you actually knowing everything beforehand is just great!
As to your questions (the ones i can answer without spoilers at least): The Lich King was Ner'zhul -> Arthas -> Bolvar, you got that right. Ner'zhul was the first Lich King, turned into it and imprissoned by Kil'jaeden to serve the Legion. Arthas was corrupted by Ner'zhul in order to set him free. They merged and the Lich King was no longer bound and enslaved to the Legion, but now was their own entity. When Arthas was killed, Frostmourne was shattered. Pieces of Frostmourne were later recovered and reforged into new artifact weapons for the Death Knight Player Characters. Bolvar's power level is uncertain at best. He has inherited the Helm of Domination, the phylactery of Ner'zhul and Arthas that give the Lich King their powers. Lich King Bolvar is presumably on par with Lich King Arthas, if not more powerful, but it's not stated explicitly anywhere.
The Helm of Domination is very powerful in necromantic powers and heavily tied to the Shadowlands. That and the veil between Azeroth and the Shadowlands is weakest at Icecrown, so that was why the veil was shattered there
Thank you so much! This one had me on the edge of my seat the entire time! Cannot wait for the in game scenes!
hes DEFINITELY not as powerful as arthas. frostmourne and the crown of domination have a feedback loop.
the more souls frostmourne can draw from--generally by slaying them--the more powerful it gets
the crown of domination, however, gives access to ALL of the souls of the scourge to frostmourne, in addition to both of their innate powers. it also gets more powerful with more souls under it.
the other thing is that even the "base" frostmourne is more powerful than bolvars hammer.
Definitely check out the Afterlives cinematics as well! They are in the Warbringers style and they explore the different parts of the shadowlands.
love your "battle scream voice" :D u should do some voice acting or something
Ner'zhul is the soul that's bound to The Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, so when Sylvanas rips the helm apart, the remnants of Ner'zhul, an Old Orc Shaman's soul, rips open a portal to the Shadowlands along with Sylvanas' original scourge powers which she's fallen too
What was left of Frostmorne was kinda just left on the floor. Till in World of Warcraft: Legion, where Frost Death Knight players can gather the shards of Frostmourne and reforge them into two powerful new runeblades - Icebringer and Frostreaper, the Blades of the Fallen Prince, but not until they vanquish the lingering remnants of Arthas Menethil and Ner'zhul within. For their artifact weapon for the exppack.
As for why he charge from red to blue. That him giving into the full powers and will of the Lich King to fight Sylvanas before he was holding the power a bay to not become a danger to the world. He thought she was there to claim the powers of Lich King for herself, not destroy it to open a way into The Shadowlands for reasons. He knew she was coming so he plan was calling in his Death Knights knowing they would not be there in time to help with fight, but getting there after. If he won he would be too weak to fight them off and if she won she wouldn't be use to the new powers yet and they could defeat her. But she broke it opening the way into The Shadowlands. She was gone by the time they got there, than the expack begins.
And no we had no clue what this exppack was about till afterward this was released. All we knew of The Shadowlands at this point is it's Warcraft afterlive, knew very little about it before hand.
That is so awesome that players could wield it!!
I love how scary the skull on the hammer looks when bolvar stirs up the snowstorm.
I love that you went to Symphony of the Night. The reverse castle was the first thing I thought too. haha
@philipharts There is a short story for the Knights of the Ebon Blade that goes along with this Cinematic that you should read to help explain some of the ramifications. When Bolvar turns to blue fire he is accepting the power of the Helm of Domination to help him fight Sylv as he feared what she would do with it. His fear was so great that the power he had been denying for so many years he gave into but was still not enough. As for Frostmourne it was shattered by Tyrian with the Ashbringer when the Lich King was defeated at the end of the Wrath expansion. The shards of Frostmourne were then collected by Frost Death Knight players in Legion to reforge into there Artifact weapons.
The short story is called SHADOWLANDS SHORT STORY: WE RIDE FORTH
Tirion Fordring destroyed Frostmourn during fight with Arthas.
Another bit about the 'harsh architecture' and set pieces and such as mentioned is that those can all be visited in-game and look almost 1-to-1 to the cinematic, just lower rez. Sylvanas and LK Arthas are / were raid bosses, but LK Bolvar is far weaker than LK Arthas, and just has a Death Knight's version of his old paladin's hammer - Frostmourne was shattered by Tirion in the original WotLK cinematic, and was reforged into a pair of smaller swords by the DK player in Legion era. Bolvar taps into the helm to control the ice pillars and to cast Remorseless Winter, the blinding blizzard, but his 'natural' color is fire-and-charcoal after being 'mercifully' cauterized by red dragons in the Wrathgate cinematic, the one where Saurfang the younger died to undead duplicity. Sylvanas has a lot of feels related to Arthas and the Helm putting her on this path, and as usual the art teams carry the company with the detailed emotion. 5-D chess incoming.
Sylvanas is the leader of the Forsaken, which are undead that have broken free of the control of the Lich King. The undead that she fights in this cinematic are still part of the Scourge under the Lich King's control.
Can not wait for Nathanos's cinematic. Elune adore
Calling the helm’s destruction ahead of it was so smart on your part. I remember getting that vibe as well but not being able to put words to it. Something was off. There was no way Blizzard would do anything as simple as making her the Lich Queen.
Many people have criticisms of the storytelling of the Shadowlands expansion. Personally, I love it. It touches ideas and plot points from all over the history of Warcraft and gives narrative closure to many of them.
Sylvanas’ power here is borrowed, and you’ll see who from soon enough. There’s a reason she’s able to overcome Bolvar so easily. But even with that power it takes everything she has to break the Helm of Domination.
Considering that Bolvar was not a peak human like Arthas, didn't have the spiritual powers or whatever of Ner'zhul, AND didn't embrace his powers, I would say that Arthas was atleast 2x more powerful than Bolvar. The thing is, that Sylvanas and Arthas technically have the same source of power. It is also theorized that Arthas didn't embrace his powers fully either, and was it not for his willpower, we would have no chance of stopping him back in Wrath Of The Lich King. Sylvanas is more than just a herald of The Jailers power, like the Lich King is supposed to be, so it's really hard to scale her.
I cannot wait for your reaction to sire denathrius even though shadowlands wasn't very well received sire was among the best characters wow has ever introduced.
12:32 I can understand your confusion, I'll try my best to explain:
*Undead* is a general term used to describe living things that died and were reanimated by Necromancy. I won't spoil the details of how Necromancy works in the Warcraft universe, in case you get to that part during the live streams, but for now you can assume what the name implies. Some characters can animate creatures like the Frankenstein monster by using different body parts with Necromancy as well, those are Undead too.
*The Scourge* is the name of the undead army of the Lich King, they don't have free will, and are basically tied to the Lich King's command. In Icecrown Citadel (in WoW), each boss, mini boss, and undead soldier represent the different kinds of undead present in his army. There's a ton of cool designs there, even though their models aren't updated to the current graphics.
*Then we have the Forsaken* as the group of undead that managed to break free from the Lich King's command (Ner'zhul, during the events of Warcraft III: Frozen Throne). I won't say more in case you continue to play Warcraft III reforged, but Sylvanas was one of those undead that broke free, she regain her body, and now a new set of powers. She's the founder of the Forsaken, along with those humans that died in Lordaeron back in the day. As you already know, She used to live in the Ruins of Lordaeron with her Forsaken people before Anduin, Jaina and the rest of the Alliance forced her to flee to Orgrimmar during the battle were Saurfang was captured.
I hope this helps, Phillidan!
She so powerful, not even the writers know her power.
Bolvar didn't give in to the Helm of Domination the same way Arthas did. He wore it mostly to control the undead armies and stop them ravaging across the lands of Azeroth.
people forget that there is a second consciousness in the Helm. It's also Nerzhul.
The Shadowlands historically was thought to be a shadowy version of our world as an afterlife , so when she shattered the veil and there was a “copy” of Icecrown it seemed like that is what we would see. However Blizz jacked it all up after that.
On the WC journey I think the next items you look at are the “Afterlives” shorts. They are basically this expansion’s equivalent to “Warbringers” or “Harbingers” and are actually really good. Shadowlands also has a nice cinematic launch trailer that renders a lot of the new stuff in actual animation.
@PhilipHarts The power of the Lich King corrupts whoever wields it, so Bolvar only uses it sparingly - just enough to keep the undead horde at bay. Sylvanus calls him a usurper because she's mocking how he actively tries to NOT be a Lich King. However, Bolvar has to pull all the stops to fight Sylvanas. That's why we see the power inundate his body when he "activates" it, quenching the dragonfire that always burns inside him.
As for where Sylvanas got all these cool new powers... Let's just say she has a patron, one who has benefitted greatly from the war Sylvanas started. That's his home we see on the other side of the veil, a direct mirror to Icecrown Citadel.
Köszi tesó! Jók a videók üdv Magyarországról
The talk of a World being a Prison... seems to be actually coming to light now. The whole veil breaking wasn't, her freeing us from the prison so to speak. We seem to be learning the world is a prison for the Soul of the world. This is strongly hinted at by The Last Titan logo. ... The Dragonflight expansion has us shattering what we learn to be a prison for a primal dragon. And it looks just like the logo. And the fire inside, looks just like the fire we see in the Cinematics for The War Within. It seems we are being told, the world is ACTUALLY a prison, made for the world soul, which is not actually a Titan like we have been told but is a more primal being the titans are trying to turn to "Order" Which is what Titans are, beings of Order. the Fel were trying to turn the world soul to Chaos. The Old Gods trying to turn it into Shadow. The Jailer trying to turn it into Death. The Naru... trying to turn it into Light. ... The entire Cosmos is vying for control over the development of whatever the world soul is going to become when it "is born". ... A lot of people think this means the world soul is an unborn "First One". And control of it is allowing control of the cosmos. Transforming the cosmic order into one of the cosmic forces, whoever wins takes over everything. But we ... seem to be fighting all of them. Titans are not as "good" as they seem to be, they just seem to be the initial winners of the fight for Azeroth. And beings of Azeroth have been corrupted by the curses of any of these forces... and lied to by all of them, trying to force us into helping them control it. The fight for the World Soul is the Fight for the entire cosmos. And every propaganda we have been shown by every force is lies. Sylvannas was lied to by the Jailer... but she learned a lot about the cosmic systems at play.
This is one of my favorite WoW Cinematics, and I've been looking forward to your reaction to this one since you started your journey. Your questions made me realize that the Helm of the Lich King is the Warcraft equivalent of the One Ring from Tolkien. It has a will of its own and strongly influences the wearer. Bolvar could only resist to a degree due to his body being consumed by Red Dragon's fire, which is the Flight of Life, the direct opposite to the Helm's power.
Game terms: He went from Red to Blue, changed specs into Frost Mode. 14:56 - Game terms: Casted "Remorseless Winter". Power scaling, Bolvar is MUCH LESS powerful than Arthas. But it wouldn't do any good to compare them to Sylvanas at this stage of her story because she has the power of The Jailor in her and he's nearly omnipotent compared to anyone on Azeroth.
24:11 - I think what you were describing with her tone is that she keeps alluding to secrets only she knows. She's seen The Shadowlands, she's seen death, the afterlife and has peeked behind the Veil and seen it is all pointless. But no one else knows, but her, and it is tearing her apart inside to believe she has no control over her life or her death. That she's merely a puppet for the entities that rule all creation.
28:18 - I loved the look on Bolvar's face when the helmet hit the ice. You can almost hear him thinking "I think I just peed a little..."
The color choices for the ice blue and the shadow purple are intentional, for they both originate from the Shadowlands and the element of death.
Her's is more from the direct source, while Bolvar's came from the tools he had.
"The Veil between Life and Death" ... she says it in the beginning. She shatters the veil. Breaks the wall between realities. The Helm is full... like absolutely full of souls. The Helm of Domination was a soul battery. When she shatters it you see the souls, the weight of the souls leaving the helm is WAY too much for the veil to handle. Like a flood hitting a dam, it just breaks. And the Maw is just on the other side. For a reason, that becomes clear later. Icecrown and the Maw, are parts of a greater machine, built to channel a soul.
Breaking the helm of domination (the crown) released all the magic over death and whatnot stored in it and it caused the Veil, a sort of metaphysical space between the living world, and the realm of the dead, like a limbo, to just shatter. This poked a massive hole in the sky between Azeroth and the Shadowlands, so one could travel between the two planes of reality without having to have died first.
As for Bolvar, I believe he turns blue and icy as opposed to his red fiery appearance as he consciously taps into the helm's dominion over death and frost magic, allowing him to command the undead soldiers to attack her and use his powers.
The player character (frost death knight) collected the shattered pieces of Frostmourne to make a new weapon for themselves in Legion.
Again a great reaction ! Thank you for sharing this with us
Most of the new expansion trailers are more of an epilogue as the game often continues in the current expansion after the trailer in terms of story. So war within trailer occurs very soon in game chronologically as thrall mentions he’s having visions at in game after beating the big bad guy.
The opening scene of the Icecrown Citadel is a perfect High_Def version of what it looks like InGame.
All the oldies that played back then instantly knew where she was even before she said "Icecrown".
Frostmourn was destroyed during the Raid encounter with Arthas. The final stage of the fight against Arthas he kills all the players and reveals taht his plan was to weed out the peasants and footmen and be approached only by the most powerful heroes. So after toying with us for a bit he wipes us out. An NPC that's been leading our crusade against Arthas manages to break free and leaps to shatter Frostmourn which releases all the Spirits it drained into itself.
As the players killed Arthas back in the WotLK expansion, Sylvanas felt a sense of... lack of purpose? Her main drive all this time had been to take revenge on Arthas for his attack on her homeland and for raising her as a Banshee instead of just killing her, and now Arthas is dead. She throws herself off the top of Icecrown and as she dies she sees the horrors of the Afterlife. She strikes a deal which will send her back and she wovs to never go there again.
This last part has since been ret-conned and changed to fit with the modern version of the story so things are more nuanced, expanded or outright changed.
The Helmet is that which held the original soul of Ner'zul whom you mentioned! Arthas had constant mental battles with that spirit to not give in totally to the Lich King but instead managed to kill/banish Ner'zul and gaining full power as the Lich King.
I don't really want to spoil your Warcraft 3 playthrough but you will see why Arthas as Lich Kign has those white, glowy eyes. It seems that the interpretation is that as Bolvar turned from Red to Blue/white he drew more upon the power of the Lich King as he was unsure if he would be able to beat Sylvanas. Basically, he had to power up a bit.
The attacks he use in the cinematic are part of the toolkit of those that play Death Knights. There is a spell called "Pillars of Frost" (when he shoots pillars at Sylvanas) and there is one called Remorseless Winter which creates a swirling cloud of ice around the player which deals damage to enemies inside it.
What is it with Sylvanas' Powers?
Yeh she is not ment to be able to be at the level of Power that she is (she should not have been able to nuke Saurfang the way she did either) and the type of powers are not something she's been able to do before. There is something else going on and as you pointed out, the dark smokey wisps might have something to do with it.
Breaking the skybox. Yeh most people expected her to put it on, many thought she would use the Lich king''s power to keep raising new Forsaken. Remember that her people cannot reproduce and their time is limited as eventually their bodies do start to decompose and fall apart. They try to sew new arms and legs to their bodies to keep functioning but it is a losing battle..
But we have known since WotLK expansion times that the Icecrown Citadel, the base for Arthas and the Lich King, was built at a place where the veil between Life and Death was extra thin, so she needed something very powerful, something linked to Death, and it most likely had to be done at this place for this to work.
Shadowlands had so much potential, the hype was real at this moment.
its kind of funny how the "Blizzard presents" banner happens when sylvanas is already engaging bolvar and his minions, honestly kind of interrupting the flow of the scene, when a much better place for it would've been when she entered ICC in the overhead shot. but then they would've had to animate the fight against the minions, even if she had just nuked the majority of them with the anti-saurfang spell, lol.
11:43 a fun thing about this scene and the one fighting in the blizzard at 15:12 is that blizzard apparently *really* loves undead kings with giant hammers that seemingly phase in and out of reality to attack. King Leoric in Diablo3 (and HotS) does the exact same.
13:50 kinda interesting decision that these huge pillars basically made no noise on impact. obviously they arent important, thats why, but if you watch the scene more than two or three times, you start to realize its weird. also bolvars powerlevel is (or was) honestly kinda low. he was the leader of stormwind while varian was gone (and anduin an infant) and i guess he tanked the black dragon onyxia when we uncovered her there, but i would say he was just an above-average paladin? his rank/title used to exist in the game, equivalent to saurfangs in the horde military.
19:22 she literally broke his throne.
24:06 iirc sylvanas was shown her own death and afterlife and the endless torture that will await here there. that started her crazy-spiral as she sought a way to avoid such fate and saw beyond the veil, realizing that all mortal struggle is meaningless, i believe. sadly, im not much informed beyond that, because i havent played on horde side since Warlords, so i didnt get to experience the horde storylines and hear/read what their characters, including sylvanas, had to say about all of the developments.
25:30 you can hear the whispers as she looks at the Helm of Domination. possibly that gave her pause.
and no, we hardly knew anything about the shadowlands, other than they exist and its where the souls go. maybe some other pieces here and there. from the top of my head, i only recall 2 quests ever been "in the shadowlands" before this expansion, i.e. quests you can only get/progress while dead in soul form.
"No king rules forever". That's echoing the words Arthas' father said to him as he (Arthas) died.
The purple power that Sylvanas used to kill Saurfang and used here to defeat Bolvar had never been seen before. Even NPCs after the Saurfang fight comment that they don't recognize the power that she used.
It is NOT shadow/void magic, which is the magic associated with the Old Gods.
The helm of domination is what controls the mindless undead "The Scourge" - Sylvanas controls the few undead that (in lack of a better term) woke up and freed themselves of the bonds of mental slavery that the helm established. So you have 2 factions of undead, those that have been freed (those you see in the horde, seeking a place in the world) and those that are still under the helms control. As for Bolvar, he was basically burned down by a dragon during the assault of Icecrown, causing him to be what that is you see, charred and glowing. He sacrificed himself to be the vessel of the helm so that the scourge could do no further harm. The red glow is his resting state (hes basically on fire forever) then he kind of "charges up" with the power of the helm. Regarding Sylvanas - all the purple you see around her is new power granted by the very source that created the helm and Arthas' sword - shes pretty much super saiyan at this juncture of the story. As you watch the bastion and afterlives scenes you can garner how it works. At this point though, its why she can just mow through legendary opponents like Bolvar and Saufang, she knows shes badder right now, and its the truth.
Oh, the move you see Bolvar do in this scene is called "Remorseless Winter" ....as a server first raider at that time...f that phase, assholes.
So, the undead under the command of Bolivar here are the still mindless members of The Scourge. Sylvannas led The Forsaken, who were undead that had regained sentience and autonomous free will. A big part of the reason that Bolivar took on the mantle of The Lich King is that without a Lich King to command them, The Scourge would run rampant and attack the living like a classic zombie movie. His assuming the mantle was his way of helping to prevent that from happening... and yet when the helm is destroyed, in-game, there were actually scourge raids that just popped off all over the world.
Sylvannas is, unequivocally, my most hated character in World of Warcraft, especially with what they tried to pull with her in Shadowlands. She may _once_ have been the leader of The Forsaken, but even by this point in the story, she had ceased to care about them and was serving a darker power. But you'll be learning more about that. Suffice it to say that for the entirety of BfA, her goal wasn't to lead The Horde to victory, it was to cause as much death and destruction as possible on both sides. They might try to properly redeem her as a character down the line, but I hope they don't. She's done too much.
Can you remember when Illian in Legion met the God of Light and destroyed it... this is the first time we've seen the God of death/shadow. It was a WTF moment big time.
Kamui Cosplay made an amazing prop of Bolivar's hammer, she posted a video on her channel of the build process. It smokes and lights up both red and blue.
This is just speculation that people have suspected but the Sylvanas line "The World is a prison" is very true. Even the World of Warcraft Logo has a stasis field around a globe. It is believed that Azeroth the World Soul is imprisoned in a Stasis Prison. There are beings in the Universe who want to obtain or make use of this specific World Soul Azeroth.
The Lich King per se is neither Nerzhul nor Arthas but both together under the helm of Domination, they worked in sync to do whatever they did, meanwhile Bolvar was there to disrupt that sync, and because of that he is not as strong as Arthas Lich King, as you can see in his presentation, he is shown with the Life-giving flames from the Red Dragonflight and only turns Blue when he is tapping into the Domination magic from the helm of Domination.
This is why during the fight we are rooting for Bolvar, even if he is the Lich King he isnt there to exert his power for himself, but to contain the power of the scourge and for that he is called "The Jailor of the Damned" and thats why Bolvar told her that the Helm will be her prison, because Bolvar was as imprisoned as the rest of the Scourge.
The undead from the Horde and the Scourge are 2 different kind, the undead horde are called the forsaken and are the undead who managed to break free from the Lich King control, meanwhile the scourge is still under Lich King control, thats why she isnt scourge undead champion.
As for how powerful Sylvanas is, there isnt an official answer but merely speculations, in MY opinion she should be around the same power level of Arthas, without spoilers her powers came from the Shadowlands and from the same source of Arthas Lich King, so more or less are in the same playground of power as for how her powers works, most of her powers revolve around the fact that she is a Banshee, that why all that screeming powers even if i think some of those powers like her mist-like form seems weird with a corporeal body.
Oh, and frostmourne got shattered by the Ashbringer (big cool holy sword with an amazing story told in absolutely no cutscenes) during the raid on Icecrown. It’s lying in pieces when we see Arthas dying and saying “I see only darkness before me”.
The Ashbringer is in the Fall of the Lich King cutscene. It's just on Tirion's hip the whole time cause as we all know, the fight was over by the cutscene.
Oh man I’d love to see the scenes if they existed!
Can not wait for the Afterlives cinematics. They were so good.
The breaking was hinted at during the beginning, Sylvanas says that Icecrown is 'The veil between life and death' - the Shadowlands are where all souls go upon death to be judged and spend their eternity, the Shadowlands are infinite but we get to play the game in only a handful of zones, Sylvanas is now working for the Jailer, a corrupt immortal being who has taken over one of those zones 'The Maw' and is using the power of ALL souls entering Shadowlands to build a force to dominate all of existence, Sylvanas shattered the veil to finally meet the Jailer who she has been quietly working with since she was made Warchief...
5 avengers incouding Dr Strange couldnt take off Thanos gauntlet but Sylvanas takes the Lich king's Helmet off with ease. That show how powerful she has.
Please watch the mini series of "The Burdens of Shao-hao"
Its from the expansion of Pandaria and how it was saved from the Legion invasion!
Bolvar is naturally red, the power of the Lich King is blue. When he changes from red to blue he's essentially powering up his Lich King powers, which come from the Helm of Domination. When Sylvanas removes the helm, he reverts back to red, losing the Lich King power.