Great video Rob! It would be interesting to see smoke running through to see where it goes. How much passes through and how much exits back out the front. That might give some indication of efficiency.
great idea, Robert - onwards and upwards! Having a solid foundation and being able to make derivatives of the basic model is a marvelous (you might say, "awesome") adventure. Pleased I'm on board!
Power is the important metric (torque x speed). You can get any specific torque you require through gearing. Power is another thing entirely, and it's what will turn a generator at a usable speed.
@@UncleKennysPlace although what you say is true. If we know how much torque it takes to stop the turbine rotating we can work out how much power it is generating. Is that correct?
@@F.F144 torque will determine how much load can be pulled before stalling the alternator, yes. Gearing can improve torque but comes at the expense of speed and efficiency due to friction losses in the gearing.
I had been experimenting with a similar concept, though I used half spheres stacked with the bottoms removed and a rolled edge on the bottom where cut. It works, maybe worth further investigation. My thinking was that a rotating sphere with air blown across it creates lift and pulls the air around the sphere, so why should it not work on the inside curve. It does make the air vortex and exit faster, thus spinning is faster. Hyperbolic cones for this are a brilliant idea. Thanks for the video Rob!
Robert your channel is awesome, I wish I had the funds to membership to see how much more there is in this field. Truly appreciate all your efforts here man, truly thank you.
Hi Rob, maybe you are trying something a bit different... The way I remember the Tesla turbine working is air or fluid travels across the tops of the disks and then spirals into the center and exits out around the Shaft at 90 degrees angle from the original air direction. Around the shaft there are holes in each disk. I do like your idea. Keep up the good work.
If you put bends, baffles, golfball dimples, or better yet put grooves that spiral down, like the threads of a gun barrel. Yhis would not only create more surface area to push on. It also directs the direction of flow. Love your channel brother.
@@brandonboulton2776 So what is best...? And why no one talks more about Tesla's Wind Optimisation...? Toroidal and Double Elix have both Advantages and Drowbacks? I need Answers not Emoji... Go Brandon!
Love the idea Rob.....🤔The 'Tesla Twist'(??),...... and thanks for all the vids, I love coming along for the adventure(s). Plenty of food for thought 👍😁
I think you'll need to make a small modification to allow it to function with the wind straight on. In between two layers, glue a strip of paper or something in a spiral from the large opening to the small opening. You'll likely want to make a glue a few of these strips per layer. If you don't like this idea, then you'd need to mount the tail at an angle to the turbine. That angle should be the same angle as the cone angle.
You mean to use a traditional turbine in the center to catch head on wind whilst the tesla turbine portion around the circumference is powered by wind hitting at an angle?
@@mrwess1927 Not quite. The reason why the cones are able to spin when the wind hits it at an angle is because there is an unequal force applied to the surface of the cone, which makes it spin. The idea of the tesla turbine is to make use of friction across the surface area to make it spin, but if the wind is directly on the cones, you are applying an equal force to the area of the cone which negates any imbalance that would normally cause movement. By adding a couple spiral in between the cones, you're directing a small amount of the wind through that spiral to cause it to start to move, then once it starts moving, the movement of the cone itself should continue the spiral movement of the wind which would then be able to make use of the friction across the surface to promote movement. Movement is caused by imbalance. Newton's third law, right? Except you have to think about in three dimensions...
I love your rethinking approach! I never present a problem without at least a conceptual solution, so here is my offering. When you look at Tesla's actual concept question, it was about efficiency in maximizing power transfer. Thus by injecting a fluid into a cylinder, the near 90 degree angle of attack maximizes the available energy of motion to be captured. And like water draining in a sink, the vortex pattern was his inspiration... "What if I flattened the vortex funnel into a stack of layers and captured the mechanical energy with the disks?" That is the fundamental design question and solution. Based on his design theory/solution, a modification to your design would be a shroud on the face with vanes to induce as close to the optimum 90 degree angle of attack at the edge of the cones. I am thinking like a conch spiral shell (three or four channel?) to minimize back pressure losses. The whole idea is to recreate the initial confined rotation of the fluid's energy by the external casing of the turbine. And inclusion of a weak venturi collar at the exhaust would assist in preventing back pressure build-up from the mechanically spent working fluid. Once again, base concept is capture the most energy of a working fluid in rotation as it spirals in it's funnel vortex down a drain. So I see setting the initial optimal angle of attack as the problem to solve first, and the second being being the reduction of exhaust back-pressure as close to zero or negative if possible. I think you get the idea of the context of the design issues Tesla was trying to address. Angle and flow volume to translate linear differential pressure of a working fluid into rotational torque. Hence flattening the funnel and stacking the design with parallel coupling on a common shaft. Tradeoff is really efficient laminar flow coupling vs centripial force of the working fluid wanting to return to the outer edge. This means for a wind powered system, your design solution is intriging as long as you can get the air moving in the required rotational vector first.
I found a new application for your wonderful channel. Today you made the Dental visit much more pleasant than the usual elevator muzak one endured while waiting.😂🤣😁 Thanks Robert ♥️
Interesting! I've considered square shaped housings to direct air flow from all directions for the case (like reverse tornado sirens) while the turbine is on a vertical axis so it doesn't need to turn the structure. I think laminar flow (reducing the turbulence in the airflow,passing the air through a bunch of coffee stir sticks can take out tons in testing!) would also help increase efficiency since you could stack more airstreams alongside the turbine blades as it swirls inwards.
So Darwin intake for unidirectional wind capture, Venturi compression/acceleration effect duct (slightly offset) to a Tesla Turbine for capturing the fluid friction to generate the mechanical spin. Use the spin to generate electricity, use the electricity to heat a sand battery...
If you put a slightly inward-turned lip on the front of each of those rings, and a nose-cone through the centre to outwardly displace on-coming air, then even directly on-coming air should catch the ring-discs.
Incredible! I wonder if guide vanes could be made so that air can come straight on, then moved to optimal angle of attack. Does this work the other direction as well?
I think this (as-is) would be lower performance than flat discs, because in the flat disc the fluid spirals around the disc, towards the middle, and exits out the centre of the disc. With the cone design, the fluid can only complete half a turn before it's blown off course by the air coming straight in and exiting straight out again. So I think you could improve the design by closing it so that once fluid enters the cone, it is free to spiral around multiple times without being blown off course. This would allow you to extract the most energy from the movement of the fluid, like with the original Tesla design.
Please say your gonna try building a darwin towered, hyperbolic funneled tesla wind turbine generator 🤞😁 Gotta say, your contents and creations made lockdown much easier and enjoyable on yt Rob, thank you 💯👍✌️
This should be a contest for the most marketing hype words you can cram into a design XD Not saying it won't work, it's just funny the way you said it. I'd love to see the brochure though.
I read an article using this concept for a maser. Basically, you would copper plate that cone. Then blast a magnetron through it, direct the microwaves through a pink diamond. Shine a high wattage uv laser through the same pink diamond and viola! A maser! Though the one I read about can only be pulsed a few milliseconds.
I've traveled down this path as well, and I believe a parabolic cone will function better than a hyperbolic cone. because you want the fluid to create the most friction as it is forced into a center
One advantage is that the cone shape will make the discs stiffer and able to hold heir shape with thinner plates. Just like adding dimples or other shapes to a flat piece of sheet metal will make it stiffer.
Very nice Rob. With the right design you may be able to increase the usable surface area compared to a standard Tesla turbine using this cone method. Now you have given me another idea. Make all the cones the same size and use a hyperbolic cone, shroud and stater fins to direct the air in from the sides but keeping the intake still in the same direction and axis. Basically a fixed Waters turbine on the front with a shroud to direct the air into the Tesla turbine at the correct angle.
I'm glad to see you're starting to work on this. I've been wanting to try this myself after(for some reason,curiosity, i guess) I threw an umbrella, that the broken at the handle, into the chuck of a 7amp dewalt drill. i thought it was going to fly away lol. I'm curious to see how the funnel design will operate but I would personally suggest going the spherical route. Mainly because the flaw Tesla couldn't overcome was that the plates stretching. Vortex shaped plates may have this same issue, but my theory is spherical shaped plates wouldn't because of the strength of the arc. I believe attempting to counteract plate stretch is the reason Schauberger's repulsine plates are shaped the way they are. Thanks as always for the videos!
Tesla improved on it twice. The problem is people think the power comes from rpm it doesn't power comes by reducing slip which means harmonizing motive fluid pressure and disc rpm regime at peak efficiency. If RPM is your gauge of efficiency then all you're making is a slip machine that will reach speeds that tear it apart or warp it. Someone here on youtube managed to produce 6.22ft/lbs of torque at 4500 rpm with his 10 inch setup. Tons of pop scientists on youtube spreading misinformation that you must spin up to 90,000rpm to get anything useful its not true.
You could quite easily solve the angle problem by mounting the turbine itself at an angle, relative to the wind. Great work, as always and good luck with further testing!
One way to get the air directed onto the cones at the right angle might be adding more normal turbine fan to the top of them, that way both would contribute to the torque produced. It probably wouldn't reach optimum speed of either, if optimised separately, at high air speeds but might start spinning earlier at lower ones. Should be easy enough to do a quick, rough and ready, test to see if there's anything worthwhile in that idea.
Hi Rob, no 3D printer, just stack up a bunch of funnels. I have been thinking about building a Tesla steam turbine 4 a while! Wow thanks 4 the new "spin" on things!
Very cool ! Imagine if Tesla had a 3d printer and Sir Robert Murray-Smith as a next door nieghbour Tesla: "Hey, check out these super secret plans about high frequency electricty generation Robert" R.M.S.: "Let's build it !" 😂
Rob, my 2cents. I was not able to appreciate the thickness of the cones' walls but it seems to me that you would want them to be as thin as your 3D printer allows you to have them simply because in this way you would increase the number of cones and the surface area associated to them.
With the hyperbolic stacked funnels.! Shurley the exhaust diameters will increase as they get further stacked and if the final exhaust is 89degrees to wind flow a suction from the conical exhaust can be induced..!
You spoke of a Prony brake dynamometer. There is a cheaper simple to make dyno. This was used to test engines by a large English car maker in the WW1 era. They used the engine to drive a generator that lit up a panel of light bulbs. From the number of light bulbs it would light at full power at a certain RPM they could calculate the HP.
How about putting a smaller pointed cone in front. The pointy end faces front? This is to enable it to work even if the wind is in the front and not an angle. The cone shunts the incoming wind into the sides. You might have to adjust the size though.
Will anyone, everybody, who the f*** ever find this guy money to keep on producing these type of engineering/physics videos ! The U.S., U.K., EU, Corporations.... whoever/whatever, please fund this guy. His videos are truly inspiring, educational and practical. The world can never have enough engineers ! His videos are inspiring... 😊
An interesting arrangement. As you mentioned, airflow must enter at a tangent to the discs/cones to create any power. In light of that fact, perhaps two turbines could be arranged at a 45 degree angle to each other with an edge facing into the wind, both driving an idler gear driving an output shaft so that both turbines can face the win at a tangent and drive a single shaft for the generator.
Nice idea! But did you know the Tesla turbine is half of one of Tesla's inventions.The other half of this machine is the Tesla Pump. The turbine and Pump were designed to use what is called Cold Steam. You take a tank of warm water and another tank of similar size. The water tank is connected to the turbine, the turbine to the pump and the pump to the second tank. You purge the second tank of air and the lines,turbine and pump. When you open the valve to purge the air from the water tank. The water starts to boil and creates cold steam. Cold steam is many times the density of air and starts to spin the turbine and in turn the turbine spins the pump. With the pump having more discs then the turbine a low pressure zone is formed behind the turbine. The cause and effect of this is to turn heat directly into kinetic energy with great efficiency. The second tank starts to receive the cold steam but as the temperature has been extracted and turned into kinetic energy. The steam is now colder and therefore the second tank will receive all the cold steam until the majority of the water in the first tank has boiled away.. The turbine and pump is a super efficient heat to kinetic energy converter taking just warm water and most of its thermal energy into movement. You may already know this if you follow the work of Jeremiah ienergysupply. Thanks for your videos and bright ideas TNT..
If each concentric funnel had balanced diagonal lines of dimples with a concave side to catch the wind, you could use front facing airflow to still generate motion.
With hyperbolic funnel you will have the problem that the spike of the funnel will be closer to each other then cones are. But you could use that - to make them spin even more.
A ha! Been waiting for this one. Brilliant piece of T&T to make in in a cone. Now, I wonder what effect the surface texture of the cones would have on the lamina flow? 🤔. What surface would be gripper (is that a word?) On the sir molecules?
Since the cones need to be at an angle to the tail, maybe it makes sense to have two cone sets to one tail, both of them with their optimal angle in line with the tail and center lines pointing off to each side, but spinning opposite directions next to each other. It would balance itself out, so you wouldn't have the issue of offsetting the wind angle of just one, against the tail. And it would look space age:)
The image at the beginning is different from the ones I previously have seen. The ones I am used to seeing have a hollow axil with holes to allow the air/water/steam to go around and down to the axil and exit one end of it. There were videos on other channels that showed the difference of with and without the ' hollowed axil showing hollow got higher RPM. If you have enough PLA, you might want to print again with it being hollow with holes instead of gaps in the cones. Both versions should be tested for both torque as well as RPM. Some of your generators work better at high RPM and low Torque and others the opposite.
I thought for sure that you would put magnets on the edge of the cone, you do it for everythings else😆 Another great idea Rob! But I live in the north county were there is SNOW and ICE three months of the year.
Instead of having the back end be open to all of the cones' slots, what if it only exhausted the air through the slot on the inner or outermost cone blocking the rest, and have slightly offset holes on the rest of the cones' faces near the back forcing the air to spin laterally against the blades more? I thought Tesla Turbines relied on that vortex, maybe it could help here. I love the rethinking of the tesla turbine like this!
Matt a smaller cone in the opposite direction in the middle. And maybe not flat but each cone layer it is like a small flat bowl. And then put a Darwin on top of it. :)
Yes, very good. But... Your cone is back to front. Also, if you use a hypobaric (?) cone, gas must start at the small end and move into the large end. Good idea though!
Interesting work. Good idea. Tesla said that putting washers between the plates made for better acceleration and might make this stack more sensitive to lesser winds. Other Tesla turbine experimenters claim that for generator-only applications, the circular washers were best replaced with air-foil shaped spacers. Food for thought. Also, the optimum distance between the surfaces is greatly dependent on the viscosity of the fluid: hot steam I'd different from cold steam, is different from air, is different from water, etc. Edit-- Let me stress: OPTIMUM distance. IE the distance that is most efficient at coupling with the fluid to extract momentum. A Tesla turbine optimized for air will also work with water, just not optimally so. And, again, it's about viscosity, so scale changes things too.
Very cool design. I had that thought. Awhile back when looking at vortex funnels. Very happy you did it Robert. Also on the tesla valve I used the Fibonacci Sequence 1.618 to do a ratio deduction on each pedals to increase pressure. Happy Building. 😊
Hey Lads, always love your work and thank you kindly for posting so regularly. I think Nikola is turning in his grave right now!! Just not sure if it's because he didn't think of this first or if he's just shaking his head. All in good jest lads. Thankyou again
The optimal angle of the wind actually seems to correspond to the angle of the cone. Therefore, for real wind applications, it might be useful to tilt the axis of the turbine so that one of the outer surfaces of the cone is horizontal.
Tesla turbine's discs are of the same size and fluid's pressure and velocity are the same so they simply add up. In the case of concentric tubes system, fluid velocities and pressures vary greatly because of different radii, contact surfaces and angles. The ring layers of air move at different velocities and that results in wide range of force difference in which the smaller ones create a drag on higher due to turbulences.
Hi Rob, I remember years ago hearing a aronautics engineer explaining how a properly designed cowl around the prop of a stunt plane gave them an extra 30% efficiency. I wonder if a cowl with the matching angle around and partially in front might direct the wind at the proper angle to the business portion of the turbine....even if directly facing.
If you drop the hyperbolic version with the funnel pointing down and in a manner that it can't tip over, I wonder if it would start spinning on the way down and if that spin would slow it's decent, kind of like a maple seed...
Unfortunately the few tests I've seen seem to indicate that almost all the energy is transformed into rotational speed. One test using water as the medium spun a small turbine at 30,000 rpm but you could stop it with your baby finger. Perhaps a large turbine with enough mass could produce a useful torque
In theory, this would really work very well if it works along with the Coriolis force. Especially if you can cause a drop in pressure as it "falls away" from the edges and accelerates into the center.
I've a feeling that a rose-petal element might be useful on the outside 'funnel'. It'd help give the whole structure some omni-directional qualities, I should think. Doesn't have to be too-pronounced an angle....it just has to be enough to provide the work to overcome the inertia, and provide an 'exit' for the flow. This thing has enough work being directed at it to make it spin, it's just that the energy is essentially hitting a flat surface - but including some kind of subtle petal/wing into the design of the outer disk would act like a small starter motor. Also, I should imagine that, once spinning fast enough, the device would become effective in an unfeasibly wide cone. This is some powerful kung fu.
I hope you can develop One of your incredible ideas to a prototype hat does work. You work as I believe you work. Simple, cheap to build, cheap to maintain, has a realistic service life and as close to 100% recyclable as possible.
Another brilliant idea. You move so fast I'm still way back with Darwin but enjoy these videos so much. Thank you
I can hardly wait for the hyperbolic cone concept prototype! Facsinating!🤩
Great video Rob! It would be interesting to see smoke running through to see where it goes. How much passes through and how much exits back out the front. That might give some indication of efficiency.
great idea, Robert - onwards and upwards! Having a solid foundation and being able to make derivatives of the basic model is a marvelous (you might say, "awesome") adventure. Pleased I'm on board!
I really really hope you do test to see how much torque it can manage to create!!
Thanks for all the videos!!
Power is the important metric (torque x speed). You can get any specific torque you require through gearing. Power is another thing entirely, and it's what will turn a generator at a usable speed.
@@UncleKennysPlace although what you say is true. If we know how much torque it takes to stop the turbine rotating we can work out how much power it is generating. Is that correct?
@@F.F144 torque will determine how much load can be pulled before stalling the alternator, yes. Gearing can improve torque but comes at the expense of speed and efficiency due to friction losses in the gearing.
I had been experimenting with a similar concept, though I used half spheres stacked with the bottoms removed and a rolled edge on the bottom where cut. It works, maybe worth further investigation. My thinking was that a rotating sphere with air blown across it creates lift and pulls the air around the sphere, so why should it not work on the inside curve. It does make the air vortex and exit faster, thus spinning is faster. Hyperbolic cones for this are a brilliant idea. Thanks for the video Rob!
That's great Robert. You are a constant inspiration.
This is my favorite video since your burner and heater videos! I really hope to see this design come to fruition.
Robert your channel is awesome, I wish I had the funds to membership to see how much more there is in this field. Truly appreciate all your efforts here man, truly thank you.
Hi Rob, maybe you are trying something a bit different... The way I remember the Tesla turbine working is air or fluid travels across the tops of the disks and then spirals into the center and exits out around the Shaft at 90 degrees angle from the original air direction. Around the shaft there are holes in each disk. I do like your idea. Keep up the good work.
If you put bends, baffles, golfball dimples, or better yet put grooves that spiral down, like the threads of a gun barrel. Yhis would not only create more surface area to push on. It also directs the direction of flow.
Love your channel brother.
Shauberger and Russell have travelled this path.
When he ends up at the toroidal and helical shapes, he'll complete the circle ⭕👍😎
@@brandonboulton2776
So what is best...?
And why no one talks more about Tesla's Wind Optimisation...?
Toroidal and Double Elix have both Advantages and Drowbacks?
I need Answers not Emoji...
Go Brandon!
Victor Shauburger !!!! The man of water
Thank you for turning me on to Shauberger. This changes everything. Really, everything!
@@antoniopacelli I made a statement. Not sure what you expect of me.
Love the idea Rob.....🤔The 'Tesla Twist'(??),...... and thanks for all the vids, I love coming along for the adventure(s). Plenty of food for thought 👍😁
Barleycorns, feathers, RMS-Tesla-Cones ... I'm fascinated by all your inventions!!
Love it. The Gabriel's horns sound like a great idea as well.
I think you'll need to make a small modification to allow it to function with the wind straight on. In between two layers, glue a strip of paper or something in a spiral from the large opening to the small opening. You'll likely want to make a glue a few of these strips per layer. If you don't like this idea, then you'd need to mount the tail at an angle to the turbine. That angle should be the same angle as the cone angle.
You mean to use a traditional turbine in the center to catch head on wind whilst the tesla turbine portion around the circumference is powered by wind hitting at an angle?
@@mrwess1927 Not quite. The reason why the cones are able to spin when the wind hits it at an angle is because there is an unequal force applied to the surface of the cone, which makes it spin. The idea of the tesla turbine is to make use of friction across the surface area to make it spin, but if the wind is directly on the cones, you are applying an equal force to the area of the cone which negates any imbalance that would normally cause movement. By adding a couple spiral in between the cones, you're directing a small amount of the wind through that spiral to cause it to start to move, then once it starts moving, the movement of the cone itself should continue the spiral movement of the wind which would then be able to make use of the friction across the surface to promote movement. Movement is caused by imbalance. Newton's third law, right? Except you have to think about in three dimensions...
I love your rethinking approach!
I never present a problem without at least a conceptual solution, so here is my offering.
When you look at Tesla's actual concept question, it was about efficiency in maximizing power transfer. Thus by injecting a fluid into a cylinder, the near 90 degree angle of attack maximizes the available energy of motion to be captured. And like water draining in a sink, the vortex pattern was his inspiration...
"What if I flattened the vortex funnel into a stack of layers and captured the mechanical energy with the disks?"
That is the fundamental design question and solution.
Based on his design theory/solution, a modification to your design would be a shroud on the face with vanes to induce as close to the optimum 90 degree angle of attack at the edge of the cones. I am thinking like a conch spiral shell (three or four channel?) to minimize back pressure losses.
The whole idea is to recreate the initial confined rotation of the fluid's energy by the external casing of the turbine. And inclusion of a weak venturi collar at the exhaust would assist in preventing back pressure build-up from the mechanically spent working fluid.
Once again, base concept is capture the most energy of a working fluid in rotation as it spirals in it's funnel vortex down a drain.
So I see setting the initial optimal angle of attack as the problem to solve first, and the second being being the reduction of exhaust back-pressure as close to zero or negative if possible. I think you get the idea of the context of the design issues Tesla was trying to address. Angle and flow volume to translate linear differential pressure of a working fluid into rotational torque. Hence flattening the funnel and stacking the design with parallel coupling on a common shaft. Tradeoff is really efficient laminar flow coupling vs centripial force of the working fluid wanting to return to the outer edge. This means for a wind powered system, your design solution is intriging as long as you can get the air moving in the required rotational vector first.
I found a new application for your wonderful channel. Today you made the Dental visit much more pleasant than the usual elevator muzak one endured while waiting.😂🤣😁 Thanks Robert ♥️
Thank you very much.
Interesting! I've considered square shaped housings to direct air flow from all directions for the case (like reverse tornado sirens) while the turbine is on a vertical axis so it doesn't need to turn the structure. I think laminar flow (reducing the turbulence in the airflow,passing the air through a bunch of coffee stir sticks can take out tons in testing!) would also help increase efficiency since you could stack more airstreams alongside the turbine blades as it swirls inwards.
So Darwin intake for unidirectional wind capture, Venturi compression/acceleration effect duct (slightly offset) to a Tesla Turbine for capturing the fluid friction to generate the mechanical spin.
Use the spin to generate electricity, use the electricity to heat a sand battery...
If you put a slightly inward-turned lip on the front of each of those rings, and a nose-cone through the centre to outwardly displace on-coming air, then even directly on-coming air should catch the ring-discs.
Good afternoon!
So, offset the tail for the wind input angle
Hello there!
Incredible! I wonder if guide vanes could be made so that air can come straight on, then moved to optimal angle of attack. Does this work the other direction as well?
Oh ho 👀!!! Rob, that's genius 😮. Bravo 👏. Exelent work 😎👍. keep it up pal 😃!
I think this (as-is) would be lower performance than flat discs, because in the flat disc the fluid spirals around the disc, towards the middle, and exits out the centre of the disc. With the cone design, the fluid can only complete half a turn before it's blown off course by the air coming straight in and exiting straight out again. So I think you could improve the design by closing it so that once fluid enters the cone, it is free to spiral around multiple times without being blown off course. This would allow you to extract the most energy from the movement of the fluid, like with the original Tesla design.
Please say your gonna try building a darwin towered, hyperbolic funneled tesla wind turbine generator 🤞😁
Gotta say, your contents and creations made lockdown much easier and enjoyable on yt Rob, thank you 💯👍✌️
It's too much power! She cannae take it! 😆
@@paulmurgatroyd6372 have you factored in the dilithium crystal effect captain?🤨
This should be a contest for the most marketing hype words you can cram into a design XD
Not saying it won't work, it's just funny the way you said it. I'd love to see the brochure though.
I read an article using this concept for a maser.
Basically, you would copper plate that cone. Then blast a magnetron through it, direct the microwaves through a pink diamond. Shine a high wattage uv laser through the same pink diamond and viola! A maser!
Though the one I read about can only be pulsed a few milliseconds.
great rethinking, love it.
I've traveled down this path as well, and I believe a parabolic cone will function better than a hyperbolic cone. because you want the fluid to create the most friction as it is forced into a center
Fundamentally beautiful. 👍
One advantage is that the cone shape will make the discs stiffer and able to hold heir shape with thinner plates. Just like adding dimples or other shapes to a flat piece of sheet metal will make it stiffer.
Very nice Rob. With the right design you may be able to increase the usable surface area compared to a standard Tesla turbine using this cone method. Now you have given me another idea. Make all the cones the same size and use a hyperbolic cone, shroud and stater fins to direct the air in from the sides but keeping the intake still in the same direction and axis. Basically a fixed Waters turbine on the front with a shroud to direct the air into the Tesla turbine at the correct angle.
I'm glad to see you're starting to work on this. I've been wanting to try this myself after(for some reason,curiosity, i guess) I threw an umbrella, that the broken at the handle, into the chuck of a 7amp dewalt drill. i thought it was going to fly away lol. I'm curious to see how the funnel design will operate but I would personally suggest going the spherical route. Mainly because the flaw Tesla couldn't overcome was that the plates stretching. Vortex shaped plates may have this same issue, but my theory is spherical shaped plates wouldn't because of the strength of the arc. I believe attempting to counteract plate stretch is the reason Schauberger's repulsine plates are shaped the way they are. Thanks as always for the videos!
Tesla improved on it twice. The problem is people think the power comes from rpm it doesn't power comes by reducing slip which means harmonizing motive fluid pressure and disc rpm regime at peak efficiency. If RPM is your gauge of efficiency then all you're making is a slip machine that will reach speeds that tear it apart or warp it.
Someone here on youtube managed to produce 6.22ft/lbs of torque at 4500 rpm with his 10 inch setup. Tons of pop scientists on youtube spreading misinformation that you must spin up to 90,000rpm to get anything useful its not true.
Hot damn Rob. This is pretty intriguing.
I love this guy's child like laugh! It's infections and makes me excited for science.
Wondered if you pointed the cones downwards to accommodate the desired angle. Excellent idea 💛
You could quite easily solve the angle problem by mounting the turbine itself at an angle, relative to the wind. Great work, as always and good luck with further testing!
One way to get the air directed onto the cones at the right angle might be adding more normal turbine fan to the top of them, that way both would contribute to the torque produced. It probably wouldn't reach optimum speed of either, if optimised separately, at high air speeds but might start spinning earlier at lower ones.
Should be easy enough to do a quick, rough and ready, test to see if there's anything worthwhile in that idea.
great project, as always
Awesome idea! Maybe also try blowing it from the bearing side? That way it would pull itself into the wind and work on a vacuum.
Hi Rob, no 3D printer, just stack up a bunch of funnels. I have been thinking about building a Tesla steam turbine 4 a while! Wow thanks 4 the new "spin" on things!
Incredible Robert🎉
Very cool !
Imagine if Tesla had a 3d printer and Sir Robert Murray-Smith as a next door nieghbour
Tesla: "Hey, check out these super secret plans about high frequency electricty generation Robert"
R.M.S.: "Let's build it !" 😂
Then botth would be, f-ed..
Love the thinking, whether it works or not at least you have new thoughts and give it a try.
Rob, my 2cents. I was not able to appreciate the thickness of the cones' walls but it seems to me that you would want them to be as thin as your 3D printer allows you to have them simply because in this way you would increase the number of cones and the surface area associated to them.
With the hyperbolic stacked funnels.! Shurley the exhaust diameters will increase as they get further stacked and if the final exhaust is 89degrees to wind flow a suction from the conical exhaust can be induced..!
You spoke of a Prony brake dynamometer. There is a cheaper simple to make dyno. This was used to test engines by a large English car maker in the WW1 era. They used the engine to drive a generator that lit up a panel of light bulbs. From the number of light bulbs it would light at full power at a certain RPM they could calculate the HP.
How about putting a smaller pointed cone in front. The pointy end faces front?
This is to enable it to work even if the wind is in the front and not an angle.
The cone shunts the incoming wind into the sides. You might have to adjust the size though.
Will anyone, everybody, who the f*** ever find this guy money to keep on producing these type of engineering/physics videos !
The U.S., U.K., EU, Corporations.... whoever/whatever, please fund this guy. His videos are truly inspiring, educational and practical.
The world can never have enough engineers ! His videos are inspiring...
😊
You can also add like 10 glasses of plastic smaller size with fins directed in clockwise Anticlowise
An interesting arrangement. As you mentioned, airflow must enter at a tangent to the discs/cones to create any power. In light of that fact, perhaps two turbines could be arranged at a 45 degree angle to each other with an edge facing into the wind, both driving an idler gear driving an output shaft so that both turbines can face the win at a tangent and drive a single shaft for the generator.
Excellent!
look forward to seeing a later model...
I imagined the air channeled to a turbine and at the end at the angle you mentioned 😁🙏
Nice idea! But did you know the Tesla turbine is half of one of Tesla's inventions.The other half of this machine is the Tesla Pump. The turbine and Pump were designed to use what is called Cold Steam. You take a tank of warm water and another tank of similar size. The water tank is connected to the turbine, the turbine to the pump and the pump to the second tank. You purge the second tank of air and the lines,turbine and pump. When you open the valve to purge the air from the water tank. The water starts to boil and creates cold steam. Cold steam is many times the density of air and starts to spin the turbine and in turn the turbine spins the pump. With the pump having more discs then the turbine a low pressure zone is formed behind the turbine. The cause and effect of this is to turn heat directly into kinetic energy with great efficiency. The second tank starts to receive the cold steam but as the temperature has been extracted and turned into kinetic energy. The steam is now colder and therefore the second tank will receive all the cold steam until the majority of the water in the first tank has boiled away.. The turbine and pump is a super efficient heat to kinetic energy converter taking just warm water and most of its thermal energy into movement. You may already know this if you follow the work of Jeremiah ienergysupply. Thanks for your videos and bright ideas TNT..
If each concentric funnel had balanced diagonal lines of dimples with a concave side to catch the wind, you could use front facing airflow to still generate motion.
Most practical potentially.
With hyperbolic funnel you will have the problem that the spike of the funnel will be closer to each other then cones are. But you could use that - to make them spin even more.
Not convinced it will perform as good as your previous design couple of episodes ago
A ha! Been waiting for this one. Brilliant piece of T&T to make in in a cone.
Now, I wonder what effect the surface texture of the cones would have on the lamina flow? 🤔. What surface would be gripper (is that a word?) On the sir molecules?
You could try adding a tear drop nose cone to align the air flow direction enabling the device to simply point into the wind (fluid) by use of a vane.
Hi Rob,
I really like that one and it does have further possible potential by adding a venturi effect methinks.
Bril mate! Cheers.
Is Robert teasing us with that large device on the bench behind?
I saw that aswell.!!! What the heck is that!!!
@@natureiscrazy I think it's a big version of the small version. 😆
@@paulmurgatroyd6372 some big magnets been ordered!
Since the cones need to be at an angle to the tail, maybe it makes sense to have two cone sets to one tail, both of them with their optimal angle in line with the tail and center lines pointing off to each side, but spinning opposite directions next to each other. It would balance itself out, so you wouldn't have the issue of offsetting the wind angle of just one, against the tail. And it would look space age:)
Why not just tilt the original turbine horizontal instead of vertical? Wouldnt that make it omni-directional as well? Love what you do!
Oh lord! I haven't heard anyone mention prony brakes in ages.
That is really great. I think the water would be better because then you can control the angle of the water.
The image at the beginning is different from the ones I previously have seen. The ones I am used to seeing have a hollow axil with holes to allow the air/water/steam to go around and down to the axil and exit one end of it. There were videos on other channels that showed the difference of with and without the ' hollowed axil showing hollow got higher RPM. If you have enough PLA, you might want to print again with it being hollow with holes instead of gaps in the cones. Both versions should be tested for both torque as well as RPM. Some of your generators work better at high RPM and low Torque and others the opposite.
Hey Robert. How about working on reducing the static on your videos so that we can hear you better.
I thought for sure that you would put magnets on the edge of the cone, you do it for everythings else😆 Another great idea Rob! But I live in the north county were there is SNOW and ICE three months of the year.
Good stuff!
Instead of having the back end be open to all of the cones' slots, what if it only exhausted the air through the slot on the inner or outermost cone blocking the rest, and have slightly offset holes on the rest of the cones' faces near the back forcing the air to spin laterally against the blades more? I thought Tesla Turbines relied on that vortex, maybe it could help here. I love the rethinking of the tesla turbine like this!
WoW! Thanks.
Matt a smaller cone in the opposite direction in the middle. And maybe not flat but each cone layer it is like a small flat bowl. And then put a Darwin on top of it. :)
Neat Robert combined with the Darwin tower to gather wind you can then set the angel of attack to optimum on the Tesla cones
Yes, very good. But...
Your cone is back to front.
Also, if you use a hypobaric (?) cone, gas must start at the small end and move into the large end.
Good idea though!
Interesting work. Good idea.
Tesla said that putting washers between the plates made for better acceleration and might make this stack more sensitive to lesser winds.
Other Tesla turbine experimenters claim that for generator-only applications, the circular washers were best replaced with air-foil shaped spacers. Food for thought.
Also, the optimum distance between the surfaces is greatly dependent on the viscosity of the fluid: hot steam I'd different from cold steam, is different from air, is different from water, etc.
Edit-- Let me stress: OPTIMUM distance. IE the distance that is most efficient at coupling with the fluid to extract momentum. A Tesla turbine optimized for air will also work with water, just not optimally so. And, again, it's about viscosity, so scale changes things too.
In your channel description you don't mention anything about your background. Why is that?
"Chunky outside bit", I like your techonogical speaking.😂
The hyperbolic tunnel sounds really neat
Very cool design. I had that thought. Awhile back when looking at vortex funnels. Very happy you did it Robert. Also on the tesla valve I used the Fibonacci Sequence 1.618 to do a ratio deduction on each pedals to increase pressure. Happy Building. 😊
If you reverse the cones and put some holes in them or just make concentric slanted rings, then you can point right at it probably.
Hey Lads, always love your work and thank you kindly for posting so regularly.
I think Nikola is turning in his grave right now!!
Just not sure if it's because he didn't think of this first or if he's just shaking his head.
All in good jest lads.
Thankyou again
The optimal angle of the wind actually seems to correspond to the angle of the cone. Therefore, for real wind applications, it might be useful to tilt the axis of the turbine so that one of the outer surfaces of the cone is horizontal.
Tesla turbine's discs are of the same size and fluid's pressure and velocity are the same so they simply add up. In the case of concentric tubes system, fluid velocities and pressures vary greatly because of different radii, contact surfaces and angles. The ring layers of air move at different velocities and that results in wide range of force difference in which the smaller ones create a drag on higher due to turbulences.
Hi Rob, I remember years ago hearing a aronautics engineer explaining how a properly designed cowl around the prop of a stunt plane gave them an extra 30% efficiency. I wonder if a cowl with the matching angle around and partially in front might direct the wind at the proper angle to the business portion of the turbine....even if directly facing.
Here's a thought: angle the axle 45 degrees, so that bottom side is parallel to the ground. Then the wind will be blowing at the correct angle.
Going hyperbolic😮
I always knew you had it in you🎉😂
If you drop the hyperbolic version with the funnel pointing down and in a manner that it can't tip over, I wonder if it would start spinning on the way down and if that spin would slow it's decent, kind of like a maple seed...
That turbine can be run inline. Multiple generators. Inline ones with intakes using a Tesla one way valve as well
Unfortunately the few tests I've seen seem to indicate that almost all the energy is transformed into rotational speed. One test using water as the medium spun a small turbine at 30,000 rpm but you could stop it with your baby finger. Perhaps a large turbine with enough mass could produce a useful torque
In theory, this would really work very well if it works along with the Coriolis force.
Especially if you can cause a drop in pressure as it "falls away" from the edges and accelerates into the center.
Hope the ciggy quitting is going well. Stick with it! Interesting vid, thanks.
Might need a compound angle. Relative to both the funnel angle and the direction of twist/rotation.
I love seeing Tesla turbines explored seriously
Briliant idea! I'm curious, does it work the other way around?
I've a feeling that a rose-petal element might be useful on the outside 'funnel'. It'd help give the whole structure some omni-directional qualities, I should think.
Doesn't have to be too-pronounced an angle....it just has to be enough to provide the work to overcome the inertia, and provide an 'exit' for the flow.
This thing has enough work being directed at it to make it spin, it's just that the energy is essentially hitting a flat surface - but including some kind of subtle petal/wing into the design of the outer disk would act like a small starter motor.
Also, I should imagine that, once spinning fast enough, the device would become effective in an unfeasibly wide cone.
This is some powerful kung fu.
I hope you can develop One of your incredible ideas to a prototype hat does work. You work as I believe you work. Simple, cheap to build, cheap to maintain, has a realistic service life and as close to 100% recyclable as possible.
Seeing this thumbnail photo reminds me of versions of HHO hydrogen and Orgone energy, it would be Fantastic to see some of those made.