Mad Max: That bomb ass movie where a character does a sick electric guitar riff on a flamethrower guitar riding a car made of amps is also the movie to have a deep message of how no human being is without worth. Huh.
Perhaps the first half of your sentence is why the second part didn't get changed by Hollywood execs. They were too busy being blown off their chairs with explosions to notice the really good shit going on at the same time.
@@gerbenvanessen Sir Terry Pratchett was an amazing author with great insight into the parts of human nature we like to ignore. I learned so much about human nature from reading Discworld and that knowledge turned out to be invaluable when I took my education since it uses the concept of narratives a lot. His works even inspired me to find a connection that it seems that no one has noticed before. Rereading them with the knowledge I have now I have an even greater appreciation for them now as I find and notice things I missed the first time I read them.
Another uplifting review. Your reviews seem to bring out the empathy in your viewers. I've read a number of thoughtful commentaries and conversations in this Comments section. Many of your videos are similar - bringing out judicious interpretations of your reviews. Thank you for bring out the best in us.
when my friend finally dragged me into the theater to see Fury Road cause "no, I'm telling you, you gottah see this". i was convinced I was gonna have to sit through 2 hours of that weird black widow fight from iron man and the female lead being reduced to "i know i have to save the world but my vulnerable feeling of self-doubt requires me to rely on my romantic interest to bolster my only cursory sense of agency in this plot". then I saw Furiousa have a legitimate, knock down drag out fight with Mad Max. no sexual acrobatic landing with my crotch in your face, no close up shots of a woman struggling under a man like she's getting raped, no "i'm pulling my punches cause you're a girl", just two characters trying any and all ways to kill each other. it's not pretty, or artful, or two masters in mixed martial arts, just two survivors equally matched in only their drive to not die. and even the second before that, we genuinely see a "harem" scene with a character completely blindsided, not necessarily with sexual desire, but the incongruity of those women to the world around them and he immediately demands their water. he doesn't want sex, he doesn't want to "protect" them like they're a bunch of children, nothing ridiculous and contrived, he just wants the water. i was doing everything in my power, sitting in that theater to not cry. the vindication was so strong and so unexpected, I had no defense. Fury Road was the first time I saw women treated like actual people in any media, not like "woman", not like some convenient manifestation of an abstract idea for the men to interact with, not like a human sized doll, not like a plot point or stepping stone, actual people. and the "hero" of the franchise, Mad Max, not only took a back seat to the plot, but was the first time I saw a man in any media, immediately assume the personhood and agency of the female characters he encountered, no questioning, no hesitation, no lesson to learn, he just just did it like it should just be assumed this is how men approach women in everyday life Fury Road is just something else
I'd highly suggest watching alien, and aliens as that was the first film i saw treat the lead woman as just the lead character and Sigourney Weaver is an absolute badass in those films never treated as a sexual object, or an object for the man to win, just a good old fashioned action hero badass. I'd also suggest watching atomic blonde which is another great film where Charlize Theron flexes her muscles as a badass leading lady with awesome fight scenes and a killer soundtrack that is criminally overlooked. In a way I'd say i enjoy them more than Fury Road even, as they don't draw attention to it and don't have another character sharing the spotlight to make their point they just have badass women being badasses and people around them treating them as people and Fury Road should have just been about Furiosa. now yes that idea wouldn't have really been a "Mad Max movie" but it never needed to be in the first place as Furiosa was obviously the main character and it just feels like the director is playing it safe in a way. on another note i reallyyyyyy hope the Black Widow movie fixes her character as she was horribly underutilized and felt like a folly to her counterparts first as a side character off to the side with Hawkeye, then as a stand in for Betty Ross just there to calm down the Hulk, then just there to comfort Captain America when he was feeling down with himself and she never felt like a main character there to actually further the plot which I'd blame on them having too many damn characters to deal with and having no damn clue what to do with her or Hawkeye. which ultimately made me give up on the series and only watch the solo hero films. sorry i went on a bit of a ramble but you brought up some subjects i have strong feelings about and i needed to suggest some films i feel do it better and say my thoughts on Black Widow since you brought her up too lol
@@theninjamaster67 man the fight scenes of atomic blond. It is one of my top 10 movies. Theron is something else as an actor and pretty good about choosing scripts. At this point I will watch anything with her name on it.
That’s the language of the camera. The script can tell you one thing, but the camera can be saying something completely different. Lindsey Ellis (spelling?) actually talked about this in her The Whole Plate editorials, in regards to Mikaela. The camera tells a lot more of the story, and the more memorable parts of the story, than the script does.
Which is why it's so nice that the camera consistently frames the women like people, instead of lingering around the hip or the chest like any other action movie. The only shot I remember lingering on the hips was a shot of one of them removing a chastity belt with _teeth_ . Nobody is going to feel anything but sympathy in that scene.
I'll be honest, the water sequence I didnt read as objectification so much as we are seeing what Max is staring at. The water. That's all he cares about. The women just happen to be using it at present.
its a bit like walking through the forest and finding yourself in the middle of a fashion show, more of a "The hell is going on?" vibe i get from the opening moments of the scene, and then the closeups are almost all exclusively on the water.
@@jeanwesleynew agreed. Then I thought, "whats going on? With the way they are dressed they must be concubines of some sort?" Then the belts were shown and I thought "Ah, the ugly sort of 'concubine' "
also answered the questioned of how they stay so clean in this apoc-world of mad max. They were spoiled and always had access to water or something else for cleaning. After being in the belly of that tanker for who knows how long, they were going to get sweaty as the scene we can't breathe is also referring to how little space they have and how hot it is getting in there (along with dusty conditions etc etc). just yes everythign about it was thought through and checked twice(or more). just a lovely movie all around
i see what youre getting at with we are not things. i feel like lily allen almost had it, so close, but the way the video is framed is that she is above the dancers bc of her modesty and not that she has the decision to be modest and the dancers have the decision to be scantily clad. and with most of those dancers being black/non white, it just makes the whole thing another layer of messy imho
It would be interesting but I wonder if it would take a more mature and fair approach or choose to go down a more political trendy activist past and try and post modern day political topics into the show which would be a shame since well, i'd love to see how Furiosa would take on the other towns and all that.
@@voin5371 The entire Mad Max series has from my understanding been directed by George Miller. As long as he, the creator is the one in control o the franchise, i think he'd do a decent job. If someone else gets to direct it, then yeah I'd be worried too
@@voin5371 If you think Mad Max, the story about mankind destroying the world as a result of resource shortages and warfare, isn’t about modern political topics, you haven’t been paying attention
Thanks for remembering that the warboys are people. It never ceases to frustrate me when people badmouth stuff for 'objectifying' women while doing the same to men in the same material, not to mention straight up murdering them in droves.
Just found this old video of yours Jill, regarding stories about the aftermath of Furiosa taking over the Citadel, if you’re interested in fanfiction there’s a series of stories about that very thing on the website ao3 called ‘The Mountains Are The Same’, which also gives personhood to the warboys and is about how everyone has ptsd. It’s brilliantly written and I highly recommend it to anyone even slightly interested in the Mad Max/Fury Road fandom.
I love this movie and I *LOVE* your analysis of basically everything ever, and I especially love finding new videos that I haven't seen of yours before. It's like the comfy log you rest on in the woods every time suddenly shifting to reveal a truffle the size of a grapefruit.
The delicate line of parody is that of ensuring you are subverting, aren't perpetuating, and CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATING! I have seen too many people yelling out the windows pretending to be people who yell out windows and totally appearing to be people who yell out windows...
I've not seen Fury Road, but the way you describe it makes it sound like a great commentary on the idea of treating people as objects. Tyrants treat people as things. Women are commonly treated as things in a sexual way, while men are often treated, by tyrants, as weapons or cattle. This seems to be the way the bad guy treats both sexes. In the meantime, it appears that Mad Max does not AT ALL treat the women as sex objects (and, as you point out, neither does the camera). Furthermore, judging by a few clips you showed of the dialogue, it looks like Mad Max isn't being treated as just a weapon either. That's pretty cool.
I watched this movie for a school project in which I wanted to see how realistic different movies / books /etc. are, and honestly, my only criticism basically was that it is stupid to waste fuel on that burning guitar. This movie didn't have to be so realistic, the audience wouldn't really have noticed, because most people wanted action and awesome cars out of it, but they did it anyway, which I find really amazing.
Why do I feel like a real life version of this will be crazy those with eletric cars will be screwed those who have gas will be able to get it from someone who takes icer the gas and oil factory but then we have the other problem water that's the life force without it me you everyone will be screwed accept for the peaple who run the water plants meaning its war to get water and oil unless we all beg for fuel and water food is gonna be harder probably have to eat lizards and spiders and insects to even the odds or garden worms lol seriously peaple may decided to end there life but the truth is survival of the fittist and the way this world is going if the world ends up like this me amd some friends will probably take over the water supply that will be tge number 1 thing to grab then the oil and gas fuel maybe coal aswel open up tge mines slave labor will be forced to bring steam power back or take over nuclear power plants for power when the government loses control over us
6:50 For me, the racial dynamics and respectability politics in this video also undercut the message. There is a distinct white, European, upper class vibe to the way Lily Allen talks about objectification. The women around her are not just afforded less respect than Allen for no prticular reason, they are specifically implied by the camera and lyrics to be unintelligent, a kind of sex workers out of a lack of self-respect and options, and also coded as non-white.
Omg right! I so want a show all about the realities of daily life in an apocalypse with actually smart decent characters. Silly me I almost thought walking dead would do that back in the day. Like at some point zombies will become routine and your major concern will be no one being good at growing staple crops and shit how to we ration for winter, etc :D
as well as the horrible and dangerous misinformation on BDSM it presents which could honestly get someone hurt who just thinks that's how you do it that's an important part of that too
When I first heard of the book I thought it was about bdsm and the emotional manipulations cult leaders (and simmilar figures) use. Instead it was just bdsm If you want to write a book, write a book. If you want to write porn, write porn. Dont write porn and call it a book
If you haven't seen it, I would strongly recommend looking up the YT channel "Folding Ideas" and his 3-part series about the movies. Which goes into an investigation of the books, too, among many other things.
@@daanstrik4293 The problem with 50 shades isn't that it's porn, it's that it is horribly written. I read porn that was better written than 50 shades, including the sex scenes.
...I do want to point out in madmax that the women who we're supposed to care for and empathize with are conventionally gorgeous. While the women who were little more than breeding stock (kept pregnant and obese and uneducated) and thus- imo were even MORE abused were only briefly shown with a heavy focus on their bodies. The audience wasn't really encouraged to feel much for them. Idk. It made me feel gross, worthless, and wretched.
@Gabriel Yanga mammal only produce milk if there's a child to care for, so those women will constantly be pregnent. In post-apocalyptic world, being pregnent constantly sounds... Let's just say even in modern world so many mom's died during labour
Tbh they do explore the elderly women's participation on the story, too. That's a rare thing, to see older women being portrayed as heroes. Plus, makes sense why Immortan Joe only wants the skinny girls on his harem. But you do end up feeling bad for both ones, one group being sexual slaves for being 'pretty', and the other end up being treated as cattle, which is hard to tell who have it worse. As Jill said, you feel nothing but horror about these other women. I wouldn't go as far as to say the the skinny girls were less abused, just because they were pretty girls in a harem.
not heard or seen that song by Lily before but i felt the same way when i saw the video for Jessie Js "do it like a dude". she spends the whole thing singing about how they can "do it like a dude" all while half naked sweaty women rub themselves :/ the contradiction is painful but that's a theme with her stuff. "price Tag" being another example. Lily on the other hand i love lol also great video by the way.
I will never stop loving that this is a deeply feminist movie masquerading as a dudebro action movie, tricking the people that need this message the most into watching it
Did it, though? The MRA side of the internet made a huge fuss about boycotting it precisely because apparently just having a female lead who can shoot better than Max makes it so deeply feminist it couldn't masquerade as any such thing.
@@fnordfnordsson4385 Honestly you may be right, I'm just calling on personal experience with people I know who liked the movie. Their loss though, still a 10/10 film
Joe's little empire is successful, but cruel and exploitative, fuelled by machismo and motor fumes, while the Vulvalini's 'green place' has become ruined sand, they've had to turn to use feminine wiles to rob travellers, and even with Furiosa's help, the best plan they have on their own is to keep running. In Joe's world there is no freedom and no hope, but in the Vulvalini's, there is no stability or strength. For our main characters, success only comes when men and women stand shoulder to shoulder, consider the problems in front of them from their shared viewpoint, and work as a team to get them all to a better place than when they began. Furiosa brings the dream of something better, but Max brings the practicality of working with what they have right now.
I'd be interested in your views and opinions on 'Sucker Punch'. I searched through your videos and didn't see any. Sorry if you've done it and I haven't seen it. I struggle with the movie because I think they genuinely tried to make a female empowerment statement, but I think they missed it... a bit like the Lily Allen video.
Yeah, they still have warboys, still need bullets and gas. That'd be kewl to see furiosa handle that, especially since she's dealing with the brothers' 2nds
Mad max fury road is a great movie I can't wait for another one or a side to furiosa because she is a badass character 😎 funny compared to a female pirate of the caribbean that shit will flop but furiosa seems like she has history being a captive a running with war boys would be nice to see a younger side to her how she lost her arm would be a great feature did she shave her head when she was younger would awesome to talk about it since most girls will never just shave there head bold that's why furiosa was badass it left a statement saying why do woman wear all this make up and shit yet you have a very fit actor who shaved her head yet Still looks fit yea looks like she been through he'll charlize theron would be my girl if I could have a woman who looks great being bold he'll I can imagine her having face paint on while doing it even more badass see why can't they make movies like this mad max helping her get redemption for what they did to her is what makes this movie high octane well besides the obvious would be nice to see more movies high actane and use real prop cars that can do some damage in reality if used like that very little cgi was used mostly green screen and a few clever effects but the cars actually ran and they go fast aswel probably the best movie apparently it drank up alot of fuel to make this movie
I feel personally the baby carriers are objectified and sexualised for their thin attractiveness and the milk mothers are portrayed as grotesque which is disappointing
I’d love to hear your opinion on Halsey’s ‘Nightmare’ video! It is very much a protest song, but I think her use of satire (in regards to objectification/satirization) is really effective
"Girl in a country song" pokes at the stereotype of women in music videos better if you want an actual video of it. There is a literal gender flip where they have men dance and act like what most music videos have women do in them.
Small request from us with auditory processing issues: please please please don't write the captions differently to the video audio: you end up not being able to follow either :( A few words difference here and there are manageable, but when the captions have 2-3 flowery sentences to express what was said in 1 plain sentence it's super disorienting. I'll have to watch this one on silent.
thank you! It starts from about 1:06 with changed word orders & a bit of extra unspoken commentary but at 2min there's a rapid slew of caption text that isn't spoken at all
This is the first Mad Max movie that is not about "stuff" Most of the others are about max getting his stuff back...Which ALWAYS ends badly. Max is a character who wants to be a lone wolf...and he never succeeds at it. He only works when he's part of a group with a cause. Yet in the end he always walks away. He's heartbreakingly broken
No lie, that Lily Allen video is so tacky and it manages to be hypocritical while swearing it is not...it feels stupid. I also am obsessed with Fury Road. A masterpiece indeed. Even Legally Blonde also delivers the point.
The first all woman government in thousands of years. And you'd question the potential for greatness? Lady, what do you want from us...? Cuz there's alot of guys whod watch this and be just as confused as I at the tone...and how to feel about it...
Human sexuality is inherently objectifying. Ask you male partner how aroused he becomes thinking about your great personality. Men can be aroused by 2 dimensional, badly printed, images of disconnected female body parts. There needs to be some sort of accommodation to this because it is not going away.
Mad Max: in a world, where even the most powerful man is a deformed mess, where winners are the one who cancers and can have a blood transfusion every week and being a child soldier count as winning the lottery, 4 Victoria secret model, who has never felt pain or ever got a cut on their skin, struggles with objectification and self-actualization. I so can relate.
What is the direct object of the following sentence? Women are not objects. It's ok to recognize others as sexual objects. It's not ok to dehumanize someone you find attractive in order to put your own agency over theirs. Also, there are people out there that are not seen as sexual objects and typically they are sad, lonely and desperate for someone to see them as a sexual object.
I've not seen this movie, it just isn't available on any of the sites I use. But I'm wondering, bad guy chained up women, okay, but the kids are still his, and it's evil for him to want his kids back? That's not the only reason, I'm sure. But people like to think children belong to the mother and the father's wants for his children is irrelivant in such situations most of the time. Yes, that's my take away because everything else in this video is just... Well, duh. 🤷♀️ Of course people are people and should be treated as such. Preaching to the choir here I guess.
He primarily wanted his "wives" back and because they were, in his mind, beautiful things that he owned. That only HE was allowed to own. And the kids they were forced to give birth to were also things to him. They weren't kids in the sense that he cared about his children in any parental way. They were just the new (hopefully pretty) things that his current pretty things could make. They were his kids in the sense that he had ownership over them. They were just more things that he could control. His "wives" and children were literally status objects, trophies he collected due to the power he had.
I didn't like the dumb 360 plot but I still like this movie and hope to order the double feature C.D. with the color version of this movie plus the Black and Chrome addition.
I like many of your historical videos. But one about "objectification" I disagree with. Everyone is an object in one way or another, to someone or another. I find that often when someone declares some art of "objectification" they are really saying "I don't like that." And it's fine to not like things. But to create a category that is effectively censorship, then it's a problem.
When satire seems like trying to have its cake and eat it too (5:20) for me is exemplified by Starship Troopers. Maybe the book was clever satire but the movie was jingoistic America F%*# Yeah style mindless violence as entertainment with some small laughs about having no brain being an advantage for a soldier. Being over the top and self aware is not enough to be effective satire if your product is almost indistinguishable from what you are trying to parody. It just isn't clever enough to have any teeth. But I'm in the minority probably on this one. Ah well to each their own.
It stuck out to me that Furiosa suddenly betrayed the only family she has known since childhood, including her own loyal soldiers. It bothered me that the human element of that event is missing from the story - we are supposed to just ignore it and accept that she had harboured her own morals in secret, but at the same time not think less of her for tricking everyone in her tribe regarding what she thought of them for - two or three decades?
Furiosa was kidnapped from matriarchal tribe however, they called it the Green Place in the movie. I'd say she did what she had to for all those years just to survive. Its not like she could single handedly take out the entire army. She did the next best thing she stole all hope for Joes blood line to continue.
@@jessl1177 Yeah I understood the story, but most permanently kidnapped people integrate into their new tribe and form friendships, which Furiosa obviously did because she was well regarded enough to be rewarded with a leadership position. She still betrayed them, and the emotional impact of that aspect was not explored. I'm not saying she is a bad character, I'm saying the storytelling is missing.
Hm, i guess the whole concept of people being objectifyed is not really "fleshed out" at all but just a way to attack media people dont like. An object is something which, as pointed out in the video, doesnt have agency, but is also acted upon, so thats true for a large part of fictional characters, and unfortunately for a ton of real people too (especially religiozs zealots, or those under their rule). But what exactly is bad at having such characters in a movie?
Great video but you left out one very important thing... You talked a lot about objectification but not that much about freedom. People are free to choose to objectify themselves from time to time and on their own terms. If they want to. This is one of the main reasons why I love Instagram so much, lol...😂
In my opinion, objectification is not very common. I never objectified anybody, nor can I imagine anyone wanting to treat anyone else as an object. Maybe rapists and human traffickers do and they cause great harm, but that group can never be the majority. You might be fighting a non-existing enemy
nice all this, but let us keep in mind that we are talking about a post apocalyptic era... this kind of logic doesnt work, the world is reset, and men and women are once again divided to peasants and nobles...
I'm sorry to say but everyone and everything is an object to whomever is perceiving it, what else can they be? This is called "human perception". The fact that I know you are a person in much the same way I am, is called "human recognition". The possibility that I might care about you (which I won't in 99.9% of cases) is called "human relationship" - people I have no relationship with to any appreciable degree, are of no interest nor consequence to me. 99.9% of all people in the entire world do not care about me nor you nor should they. I think most of you have a faulty idea about what reality is and what you are. The concept of the golden rule was thought up as a system/contract of social interaction, as someone once wrote: "Man was civilized, very much against his own wishes", remember what we are once its all said and done. In addition I would suggest that its a good idea to grow out of this absurd notion about "treated like people, not women", because women are both and its not something to be chosen between. Now if your personal disposition is that you want to be more like a man, or less like a woman (whichever way you choose to look at it) then go for it, but that is Your choice, Your path in life. Find someone who appreciates you, for you rather than Demanding that everyone likes you. None of us like everyone we meet, for a multitude of reasons, even visual ones. Personally I fail to understand what is so terrible about being treated like a woman or wanting to be one. How can you have low self esteem about being a woman? Women are wonderful in so many ways and you feel insecure about it? Why? If you feel like a woman, be a woman. So, to sum it up we are a social ape species ½ a chromosome away from chimpanzees, our adrenal glands are too big, our prefrontal cortex is too small, we are afraid of the dark and we are afraid to die and we believe in wishful things about stuff that is so stupid, that even children can and will see through it. We have so much unspent love and kinship, currently being overshadowed by this weird hateful and spiteful competition between the sexes that is entirely unnecessary.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Mad Max: That bomb ass movie where a character does a sick electric guitar riff on a flamethrower guitar riding a car made of amps is also the movie to have a deep message of how no human being is without worth.
Huh.
That flamethrower guitar is btw a real thing and the dude does play a riff on the thing.
And he is, of course, named "the doof warrior".
Perhaps the first half of your sentence is why the second part didn't get changed by Hollywood execs. They were too busy being blown off their chairs with explosions to notice the really good shit going on at the same time.
@@sevenproxies4255 Yes, because movies are only allowed to be dumb and swallow no attempt should be ever made to do anything deeper.
Oh hell yeah
"People as things, that's how sin starts" - More or less what Granny Weatherwax says in Discworld.
Also Kant's second categorical imperative.
@@kore5080 Is that "people cannot be treated as a means to an end, they are an end in and of themselves"?
Yes, that one.
discworld is pretty great.
@@gerbenvanessen Sir Terry Pratchett was an amazing author with great insight into the parts of human nature we like to ignore. I learned so much about human nature from reading Discworld and that knowledge turned out to be invaluable when I took my education since it uses the concept of narratives a lot. His works even inspired me to find a connection that it seems that no one has noticed before.
Rereading them with the knowledge I have now I have an even greater appreciation for them now as I find and notice things I missed the first time I read them.
No idea why this video is only showing up in my feed now, but...
WITNESS.
Another uplifting review. Your reviews seem to bring out the empathy in your viewers. I've read a number of thoughtful commentaries and conversations in this Comments section. Many of your videos are similar - bringing out judicious interpretations of your reviews. Thank you for bring out the best in us.
when my friend finally dragged me into the theater to see Fury Road cause "no, I'm telling you, you gottah see this". i was convinced I was gonna have to sit through 2 hours of that weird black widow fight from iron man and the female lead being reduced to "i know i have to save the world but my vulnerable feeling of self-doubt requires me to rely on my romantic interest to bolster my only cursory sense of agency in this plot".
then I saw Furiousa have a legitimate, knock down drag out fight with Mad Max. no sexual acrobatic landing with my crotch in your face, no close up shots of a woman struggling under a man like she's getting raped, no "i'm pulling my punches cause you're a girl", just two characters trying any and all ways to kill each other. it's not pretty, or artful, or two masters in mixed martial arts, just two survivors equally matched in only their drive to not die. and even the second before that, we genuinely see a "harem" scene with a character completely blindsided, not necessarily with sexual desire, but the incongruity of those women to the world around them and he immediately demands their water. he doesn't want sex, he doesn't want to "protect" them like they're a bunch of children, nothing ridiculous and contrived, he just wants the water.
i was doing everything in my power, sitting in that theater to not cry. the vindication was so strong and so unexpected, I had no defense. Fury Road was the first time I saw women treated like actual people in any media, not like "woman", not like some convenient manifestation of an abstract idea for the men to interact with, not like a human sized doll, not like a plot point or stepping stone, actual people. and the "hero" of the franchise, Mad Max, not only took a back seat to the plot, but was the first time I saw a man in any media, immediately assume the personhood and agency of the female characters he encountered, no questioning, no hesitation, no lesson to learn, he just just did it like it should just be assumed this is how men approach women in everyday life
Fury Road is just something else
I'd highly suggest watching alien, and aliens as that was the first film i saw treat the lead woman as just the lead character and Sigourney Weaver is an absolute badass in those films never treated as a sexual object, or an object for the man to win, just a good old fashioned action hero badass.
I'd also suggest watching atomic blonde which is another great film where Charlize Theron flexes her muscles as a badass leading lady with awesome fight scenes and a killer soundtrack that is criminally overlooked.
In a way I'd say i enjoy them more than Fury Road even, as they don't draw attention to it and don't have another character sharing the spotlight to make their point they just have badass women being badasses and people around them treating them as people and Fury Road should have just been about Furiosa.
now yes that idea wouldn't have really been a "Mad Max movie" but it never needed to be in the first place as Furiosa was obviously the main character and it just feels like the director is playing it safe in a way.
on another note i reallyyyyyy hope the Black Widow movie fixes her character as she was horribly underutilized and felt like a folly to her counterparts first as a side character off to the side with Hawkeye, then as a stand in for Betty Ross just there to calm down the Hulk, then just there to comfort Captain America when he was feeling down with himself and she never felt like a main character there to actually further the plot which I'd blame on them having too many damn characters to deal with and having no damn clue what to do with her or Hawkeye.
which ultimately made me give up on the series and only watch the solo hero films.
sorry i went on a bit of a ramble but you brought up some subjects i have strong feelings about and i needed to suggest some films i feel do it better and say my thoughts on Black Widow since you brought her up too lol
C T, it was really the first case of media that didn't objectify women that you've seen?
@@benwykes4736 CT might be a teenager. Give him/her time to find the others.
@@abhijiththampi fair point. I'm also a teenager by the way
@@theninjamaster67 man the fight scenes of atomic blond. It is one of my top 10 movies. Theron is something else as an actor and pretty good about choosing scripts. At this point I will watch anything with her name on it.
That’s the language of the camera. The script can tell you one thing, but the camera can be saying something completely different. Lindsey Ellis (spelling?) actually talked about this in her The Whole Plate editorials, in regards to Mikaela. The camera tells a lot more of the story, and the more memorable parts of the story, than the script does.
Which is why it's so nice that the camera consistently frames the women like people, instead of lingering around the hip or the chest like any other action movie. The only shot I remember lingering on the hips was a shot of one of them removing a chastity belt with _teeth_ . Nobody is going to feel anything but sympathy in that scene.
Came to this video from one about Pratchett. Can't help thinking of Granny Weatherwax's line that evil comes from "treating people like things".
Pratchett's early career in journalism coming through a bit there too
@@williamchamberlain2263 Everywhere. Granny is a mighty prophet, but she isn't his only one.
I'll be honest, the water sequence I didnt read as objectification so much as we are seeing what Max is staring at. The water. That's all he cares about. The women just happen to be using it at present.
its a bit like walking through the forest and finding yourself in the middle of a fashion show, more of a "The hell is going on?" vibe i get from the opening moments of the scene, and then the closeups are almost all exclusively on the water.
Using it, or wasting it. A lot of water was on the ground and I imagine that was something Max hadn't seen in a long time.
I was genuinely thirsty with Max during that scene. And I was more focused on all the water soaking into the sand than I was the women.
@@jeanwesleynew agreed. Then I thought, "whats going on? With the way they are dressed they must be concubines of some sort?"
Then the belts were shown and I thought "Ah, the ugly sort of 'concubine' "
also answered the questioned of how they stay so clean in this apoc-world of mad max. They were spoiled and always had access to water or something else for cleaning. After being in the belly of that tanker for who knows how long, they were going to get sweaty as the scene we can't breathe is also referring to how little space they have and how hot it is getting in there (along with dusty conditions etc etc). just yes everythign about it was thought through and checked twice(or more). just a lovely movie all around
i see what youre getting at with we are not things. i feel like lily allen almost had it, so close, but the way the video is framed is that she is above the dancers bc of her modesty and not that she has the decision to be modest and the dancers have the decision to be scantily clad. and with most of those dancers being black/non white, it just makes the whole thing another layer of messy imho
MF DOODLE Agreed. The optics in that video are awful.
I remember people claiming we'd all just MISSED THE POINT when it came out.
No, no. We predicted the point. Now it's upon us lol.
I'm so completely with you on watching the movie about the women running the postapocolyptic mad max world.
It would be interesting but I wonder if it would take a more mature and fair approach or choose to go down a more political trendy activist past and try and post modern day political topics into the show which would be a shame since well, i'd love to see how Furiosa would take on the other towns and all that.
@@voin5371 The entire Mad Max series has from my understanding been directed by George Miller. As long as he, the creator is the one in control o the franchise, i think he'd do a decent job. If someone else gets to direct it, then yeah I'd be worried too
@@voin5371 If you think Mad Max, the story about mankind destroying the world as a result of resource shortages and warfare, isn’t about modern political topics, you haven’t been paying attention
Besides, just go watch any horrible Italian move in the 1970’s. They were most just Mad Max rip-off’s.
"Ironic" set-ups are more often than not just to mask objectification, gore, and whatever other voyeurism.
Thanks for remembering that the warboys are people.
It never ceases to frustrate me when people badmouth stuff for 'objectifying' women while doing the same to men in the same material, not to mention straight up murdering them in droves.
Just found this old video of yours Jill, regarding stories about the aftermath of Furiosa taking over the Citadel, if you’re interested in fanfiction there’s a series of stories about that very thing on the website ao3 called ‘The Mountains Are The Same’, which also gives personhood to the warboys and is about how everyone has ptsd. It’s brilliantly written and I highly recommend it to anyone even slightly interested in the Mad Max/Fury Road fandom.
Would have been interesting if Lilly Allen's music video was animated. The director could have expressed their message a little more effectively.
This is a far better rundown of objectification than ragebait articles.
I love this movie and I *LOVE* your analysis of basically everything ever, and I especially love finding new videos that I haven't seen of yours before. It's like the comfy log you rest on in the woods every time suddenly shifting to reveal a truffle the size of a grapefruit.
The delicate line of parody is that of ensuring you are subverting, aren't perpetuating, and CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATING!
I have seen too many people yelling out the windows pretending to be people who yell out windows and totally appearing to be people who yell out windows...
Watched this last night just because of your glowing review. Definitely not my usual type of movie. But... I don't regret it, either.
Good to have you back
I've not seen Fury Road, but the way you describe it makes it sound like a great commentary on the idea of treating people as objects. Tyrants treat people as things. Women are commonly treated as things in a sexual way, while men are often treated, by tyrants, as weapons or cattle. This seems to be the way the bad guy treats both sexes. In the meantime, it appears that Mad Max does not AT ALL treat the women as sex objects (and, as you point out, neither does the camera). Furthermore, judging by a few clips you showed of the dialogue, it looks like Mad Max isn't being treated as just a weapon either. That's pretty cool.
I hope you've had a chance to see the film since you posted this comment. It really is a fantastic cinematic experience.
"Ironic objectification" is really a bit of an oxymoron when you think about it.
I watched this movie for a school project in which I wanted to see how realistic different movies / books /etc. are, and honestly, my only criticism basically was that it is stupid to waste fuel on that burning guitar. This movie didn't have to be so realistic, the audience wouldn't really have noticed, because most people wanted action and awesome cars out of it, but they did it anyway, which I find really amazing.
Why do I feel like a real life version of this will be crazy those with eletric cars will be screwed those who have gas will be able to get it from someone who takes icer the gas and oil factory but then we have the other problem water that's the life force without it me you everyone will be screwed accept for the peaple who run the water plants meaning its war to get water and oil unless we all beg for fuel and water food is gonna be harder probably have to eat lizards and spiders and insects to even the odds or garden worms lol seriously peaple may decided to end there life but the truth is survival of the fittist and the way this world is going if the world ends up like this me amd some friends will probably take over the water supply that will be tge number 1 thing to grab then the oil and gas fuel maybe coal aswel open up tge mines slave labor will be forced to bring steam power back or take over nuclear power plants for power when the government loses control over us
Man, that Lily Allen song/video hasn't held up at ALL.
6:50 For me, the racial dynamics and respectability politics in this video also undercut the message. There is a distinct white, European, upper class vibe to the way Lily Allen talks about objectification. The women around her are not just afforded less respect than Allen for no prticular reason, they are specifically implied by the camera and lyrics to be unintelligent, a kind of sex workers out of a lack of self-respect and options, and also coded as non-white.
Wow I'm glad I found you, very entertaining!
Omg right! I so want a show all about the realities of daily life in an apocalypse with actually smart decent characters. Silly me I almost thought walking dead would do that back in the day.
Like at some point zombies will become routine and your major concern will be no one being good at growing staple crops and shit how to we ration for winter, etc :D
They weren't afraid to cast overweight women as the "milking maids".
Can we talk about 59 Shades and it's horrible content, not the BDSM thing, but the horrible abuse and objectification of Anastasia the protagonist?
as well as the horrible and dangerous misinformation on BDSM it presents which could honestly get someone hurt who just thinks that's how you do it that's an important part of that too
When I first heard of the book I thought it was about bdsm and the emotional manipulations cult leaders (and simmilar figures) use.
Instead it was just bdsm
If you want to write a book, write a book. If you want to write porn, write porn.
Dont write porn and call it a book
If you haven't seen it, I would strongly recommend looking up the YT channel "Folding Ideas" and his 3-part series about the movies. Which goes into an investigation of the books, too, among many other things.
@@daanstrik4293 The problem with 50 shades isn't that it's porn, it's that it is horribly written. I read porn that was better written than 50 shades, including the sex scenes.
It was very disappointing. Not a single bit of scat-play.
Nux's end really got me
...I do want to point out in madmax that the women who we're supposed to care for and empathize with are conventionally gorgeous. While the women who were little more than breeding stock (kept pregnant and obese and uneducated) and thus- imo were even MORE abused were only briefly shown with a heavy focus on their bodies. The audience wasn't really encouraged to feel much for them.
Idk. It made me feel gross, worthless, and wretched.
@Gabriel Yanga mammal only produce milk if there's a child to care for, so those women will constantly be pregnent. In post-apocalyptic world, being pregnent constantly sounds... Let's just say even in modern world so many mom's died during labour
Tbh they do explore the elderly women's participation on the story, too. That's a rare thing, to see older women being portrayed as heroes.
Plus, makes sense why Immortan Joe only wants the skinny girls on his harem. But you do end up feeling bad for both ones, one group being sexual slaves for being 'pretty', and the other end up being treated as cattle, which is hard to tell who have it worse. As Jill said, you feel nothing but horror about these other women.
I wouldn't go as far as to say the the skinny girls were less abused, just because they were pretty girls in a harem.
Fury road is so perfect I don't even know where to start.
The gift that keep on giving describes it well.
not heard or seen that song by Lily before but i felt the same way when i saw the video for Jessie Js "do it like a dude". she spends the whole thing singing about how they can "do it like a dude" all while half naked sweaty women rub themselves :/ the contradiction is painful but that's a theme with her stuff. "price Tag" being another example. Lily on the other hand i love lol
also great video by the way.
I will never stop loving that this is a deeply feminist movie masquerading as a dudebro action movie, tricking the people that need this message the most into watching it
Did it, though? The MRA side of the internet made a huge fuss about boycotting it precisely because apparently just having a female lead who can shoot better than Max makes it so deeply feminist it couldn't masquerade as any such thing.
@@fnordfnordsson4385 Honestly you may be right, I'm just calling on personal experience with people I know who liked the movie. Their loss though, still a 10/10 film
That was the best analysis of this movie I even seen.
I can't wait to listen to your garden in the spring.
Why does this video only have 450 thumbs up? You're good at this.
Joe's little empire is successful, but cruel and exploitative, fuelled by machismo and motor fumes, while the Vulvalini's 'green place' has become ruined sand, they've had to turn to use feminine wiles to rob travellers, and even with Furiosa's help, the best plan they have on their own is to keep running. In Joe's world there is no freedom and no hope, but in the Vulvalini's, there is no stability or strength. For our main characters, success only comes when men and women stand shoulder to shoulder, consider the problems in front of them from their shared viewpoint, and work as a team to get them all to a better place than when they began. Furiosa brings the dream of something better, but Max brings the practicality of working with what they have right now.
Apparently Jeorge Miller is working on a sequel for Fury Road. I believe it's going to be focused on Furiosa.
I hope it's just as epic and beautiful
Correction, there's a prequel about Furiosa in the works. Sequel about Max in the works!
@@sporeham1674 True, it is a prequel. I'm not going to edit my comment so you are correct.
I'd be interested in your views and opinions on 'Sucker Punch'. I searched through your videos and didn't see any. Sorry if you've done it and I haven't seen it.
I struggle with the movie because I think they genuinely tried to make a female empowerment statement, but I think they missed it... a bit like the Lily Allen video.
Yeah, they still have warboys, still need bullets and gas. That'd be kewl to see furiosa handle that, especially since she's dealing with the brothers' 2nds
Mad max fury road is a great movie I can't wait for another one or a side to furiosa because she is a badass character 😎 funny compared to a female pirate of the caribbean that shit will flop but furiosa seems like she has history being a captive a running with war boys would be nice to see a younger side to her how she lost her arm would be a great feature did she shave her head when she was younger would awesome to talk about it since most girls will never just shave there head bold that's why furiosa was badass it left a statement saying why do woman wear all this make up and shit yet you have a very fit actor who shaved her head yet Still looks fit yea looks like she been through he'll charlize theron would be my girl if I could have a woman who looks great being bold he'll I can imagine her having face paint on while doing it even more badass see why can't they make movies like this mad max helping her get redemption for what they did to her is what makes this movie high octane well besides the obvious would be nice to see more movies high actane and use real prop cars that can do some damage in reality if used like that very little cgi was used mostly green screen and a few clever effects but the cars actually ran and they go fast aswel probably the best movie apparently it drank up alot of fuel to make this movie
Thanks for the video, Jill! It's such a great movie, and these are pretty much the best reasons for it! ^_^
Simply incredible you have a new sub
Oh god, I love this movie
Soon we'll have a prequel with Anya Taylor Joy as Furiosa!
SOON!
I feel personally the baby carriers are objectified and sexualised for their thin attractiveness and the milk mothers are portrayed as grotesque which is disappointing
This is the second time watching one of your vids made me go 'okay gotta watch one of my favourites again brb'
I’d love to hear your opinion on Halsey’s ‘Nightmare’ video! It is very much a protest song, but I think her use of satire (in regards to objectification/satirization) is really effective
Have we not subverted these tropes to the point that not subverting them would be the unexpected twist?
I like your video
Shines and chrome!
Very cool. Great stuff
If you like Legally Blond (just saw a bunch of your videos btw. Really enjoying them) you will like Ramen Girl.
I really enjoyed this film, which I did not expect!
If you had time, you could try watching the Everything Great About Fury Road videos on RUclips.
I LOVE those, CinemaWins is the best :)
@@JillBearup
He's just so endlessly positive and I love him for that!
I thought zombie strippers was just going for lowest common denominator like jerry Springer or belle delphine
What’s Ursa?
"Girl in a country song" pokes at the stereotype of women in music videos better if you want an actual video of it. There is a literal gender flip where they have men dance and act like what most music videos have women do in them.
Shiney and Chrome!
Small request from us with auditory processing issues: please please please don't write the captions differently to the video audio: you end up not being able to follow either :(
A few words difference here and there are manageable, but when the captions have 2-3 flowery sentences to express what was said in 1 plain sentence it's super disorienting.
I'll have to watch this one on silent.
That’s strange, normally they’re based on the auto captions. I’ll see what I can do to fix it.
thank you! It starts from about 1:06 with changed word orders & a bit of extra unspoken commentary but at 2min there's a rapid slew of caption text that isn't spoken at all
I really enjoyed the ideas & insight in this video BTW :)
Oh, there is a show, that successfully parodied objectification without sacraficing credibility. It's called *Kill La Kill.*
This is the first Mad Max movie that is not about "stuff" Most of the others are about max getting his stuff back...Which ALWAYS ends badly. Max is a character who wants to be a lone wolf...and he never succeeds at it. He only works when he's part of a group with a cause. Yet in the end he always walks away. He's heartbreakingly broken
@@ivorjawa not my point, and he is "mad" max.
No lie, that Lily Allen video is so tacky and it manages to be hypocritical while swearing it is not...it feels stupid. I also am obsessed with Fury Road. A masterpiece indeed. Even Legally Blonde also delivers the point.
subbed!
(00:00) _“We are not things.“_
_Not-things._ Is that a thing?
What about the sexy getting ready song from crazy ex girlfriend?
Legally blonde is an amazing movie.
What a day....
Lily was just as problematic as you said.
I beg you to listen to No Shame, her new one. That's all. x
Fury road was pretty good but the first one was epic
The lily Allen thing would have worked better if it was all guys pulling those rediculous poses.
wow i am late, thank you for video
WITNESS!!!
War boys are the true heroes of this movie.
Not a fan of chrome. It rusts.
I love you. I love this video.
The first all woman government in thousands of years. And you'd question the potential for greatness? Lady, what do you want from us...? Cuz there's alot of guys whod watch this and be just as confused as I at the tone...and how to feel about it...
Human sexuality is inherently objectifying. Ask you male partner how aroused he becomes thinking about your great personality. Men can be aroused by 2 dimensional, badly printed, images of disconnected female body parts. There needs to be some sort of accommodation to this because it is not going away.
worter its all aboot the worter
Is objectification in any context, even if the subject wants it?
I think the point in "Hard out here" is to look grotesque and uncomfortable
Yeah maybe it's just too outside Ursa's sexual preferences for her to notice, but the video somehow manages to make it sexual, yet unappealing.
Mad Max: in a world, where even the most powerful man is a deformed mess, where winners are the one who cancers and can have a blood transfusion every week and being a child soldier count as winning the lottery, 4 Victoria secret model, who has never felt pain or ever got a cut on their skin, struggles with objectification and self-actualization. I so can relate.
What is the direct object of the following sentence?
Women are not objects.
It's ok to recognize others as sexual objects. It's not ok to dehumanize someone you find attractive in order to put your own agency over theirs. Also, there are people out there that are not seen as sexual objects and typically they are sad, lonely and desperate for someone to see them as a sexual object.
About the importance of O- blood. 😎✌
I've not seen this movie, it just isn't available on any of the sites I use.
But I'm wondering, bad guy chained up women, okay, but the kids are still his, and it's evil for him to want his kids back?
That's not the only reason, I'm sure. But people like to think children belong to the mother and the father's wants for his children is irrelivant in such situations most of the time.
Yes, that's my take away because everything else in this video is just... Well, duh. 🤷♀️
Of course people are people and should be treated as such. Preaching to the choir here I guess.
He primarily wanted his "wives" back and because they were, in his mind, beautiful things that he owned. That only HE was allowed to own. And the kids they were forced to give birth to were also things to him. They weren't kids in the sense that he cared about his children in any parental way. They were just the new (hopefully pretty) things that his current pretty things could make. They were his kids in the sense that he had ownership over them. They were just more things that he could control. His "wives" and children were literally status objects, trophies he collected due to the power he had.
@Jill Bearup Do you believe there are exceptions to this?
I didn't like the dumb 360 plot but I still like this movie and hope to order the double feature C.D. with the color version of this movie plus the Black and Chrome addition.
I mean technically we are things glued together by smaller things but yes
I like many of your historical videos. But one about "objectification" I disagree with. Everyone is an object in one way or another, to someone or another. I find that often when someone declares some art of "objectification" they are really saying "I don't like that." And it's fine to not like things. But to create a category that is effectively censorship, then it's a problem.
When satire seems like trying to have its cake and eat it too (5:20) for me is exemplified by Starship Troopers. Maybe the book was clever satire but the movie was jingoistic America F%*# Yeah style mindless violence as entertainment with some small laughs about having no brain being an advantage for a soldier. Being over the top and self aware is not enough to be effective satire if your product is almost indistinguishable from what you are trying to parody. It just isn't clever enough to have any teeth. But I'm in the minority probably on this one. Ah well to each their own.
Objectification lmao have you seen barbarella its hilarious
It stuck out to me that Furiosa suddenly betrayed the only family she has known since childhood, including her own loyal soldiers. It bothered me that the human element of that event is missing from the story - we are supposed to just ignore it and accept that she had harboured her own morals in secret, but at the same time not think less of her for tricking everyone in her tribe regarding what she thought of them for - two or three decades?
Furiosa was kidnapped from matriarchal tribe however, they called it the Green Place in the movie. I'd say she did what she had to for all those years just to survive. Its not like she could single handedly take out the entire army. She did the next best thing she stole all hope for Joes blood line to continue.
@@jessl1177 Yeah I understood the story, but most permanently kidnapped people integrate into their new tribe and form friendships, which Furiosa obviously did because she was well regarded enough to be rewarded with a leadership position. She still betrayed them, and the emotional impact of that aspect was not explored. I'm not saying she is a bad character, I'm saying the storytelling is missing.
"single handedly"
Kill la kill
Question for feminists: why does "objectification" weights more than free will?
Hm, i guess the whole concept of people being objectifyed is not really "fleshed out" at all but just a way to attack media people dont like. An object is something which, as pointed out in the video, doesnt have agency, but is also acted upon, so thats true for a large part of fictional characters, and unfortunately for a ton of real people too (especially religiozs zealots, or those under their rule). But what exactly is bad at having such characters in a movie?
Great video but you left out one very important thing... You talked a lot about objectification but not that much about freedom. People are free to choose to objectify themselves from time to time and on their own terms. If they want to.
This is one of the main reasons why I love Instagram so much, lol...😂
In my opinion, objectification is not very common. I never objectified anybody, nor can I imagine anyone wanting to treat anyone else as an object. Maybe rapists and human traffickers do and they cause great harm, but that group can never be the majority. You might be fighting a non-existing enemy
Distinct personalities?
Tell me their names or it still fails the bechdel test.
The plot still treats women and men as tokens.
It's just an action movie, it is 100% not as important as you think.
If you are not a thing, then you are no-thing, which is to say, you are nothing.
nice all this, but let us keep in mind that we are talking about a post apocalyptic era... this kind of logic doesnt work, the world is reset, and men and women are once again divided to peasants and nobles...
I'm sorry to say but everyone and everything is an object to whomever is perceiving it, what else can they be? This is called "human perception". The fact that I know you are a person in much the same way I am, is called "human recognition". The possibility that I might care about you (which I won't in 99.9% of cases) is called "human relationship" - people I have no relationship with to any appreciable degree, are of no interest nor consequence to me. 99.9% of all people in the entire world do not care about me nor you nor should they. I think most of you have a faulty idea about what reality is and what you are. The concept of the golden rule was thought up as a system/contract of social interaction, as someone once wrote: "Man was civilized, very much against his own wishes", remember what we are once its all said and done.
In addition I would suggest that its a good idea to grow out of this absurd notion about "treated like people, not women", because women are both and its not something to be chosen between. Now if your personal disposition is that you want to be more like a man, or less like a woman (whichever way you choose to look at it) then go for it, but that is Your choice, Your path in life. Find someone who appreciates you, for you rather than Demanding that everyone likes you. None of us like everyone we meet, for a multitude of reasons, even visual ones. Personally I fail to understand what is so terrible about being treated like a woman or wanting to be one. How can you have low self esteem about being a woman? Women are wonderful in so many ways and you feel insecure about it? Why? If you feel like a woman, be a woman.
So, to sum it up we are a social ape species ½ a chromosome away from chimpanzees, our adrenal glands are too big, our prefrontal cortex is too small, we are afraid of the dark and we are afraid to die and we believe in wishful things about stuff that is so stupid, that even children can and will see through it. We have so much unspent love and kinship, currently being overshadowed by this weird hateful and spiteful competition between the sexes that is entirely unnecessary.
Ugh