A reminder that we are courteous to each other in the comments section, lest we incur the wrath of the RUclips naughty words blacklist. And if you want merch, you can go here! jill-bearup.myspreadshop.com/ Also: YE OLDE TIMESTAMPS, as it used to be that you can't click them in the description on mobile (don't know if that's still true, but here we are): 00:37 1. You don't need boob plate 02:23 Alternate options 03:14 2. Divots are a disadvantage 03:56 Muscle cuirasses 04:35 Boob shelf designs 05:11 Cleavage divots 05:39 Wasp waist armor 06:44 Sticky weapons 08:02 Codpieces 08:40 3. Consider mobility (including experiments) 09:35 Two handed weapons and giant swords 10:29 Underlayers and materials used in experiments 11:03 Low guards and power generation in boob plate 11:46 Not painting a 'look, a lady!' target on yourself with your armor 12:17 4. Breathing is important 13:44 Corsets are not like armor, and scifi armor with flex 15:39 Lightning round
By the way, the timestamps currently aren’t showing up in the normal way I believe? Off the top of my head (might be wrong) I think when the video’s over 10 minutes long the time format has to say like “09:35” instead of “9:35”
Are the boob cups like... literal cereal bowls duct taped on? I just picture you walking in to the kitchen and just saying "now is your time". While looking at them.
In mobile version, having timestamps in the actual video description now may give the video separate sections/chapters. There will appear a subtitle alongside the video time bar, with the name of the timestamp. Pressing on the subtitle may open up a timestamp list for mobile users to select from. However, I do not know how this newer function works. At the least, I know it did not work for this singular video on my device. I don't know anything else on the matter, though the timestamps themselves do work properly from the description. :p Here is a working example of the phenomenon for mobile device viewing, shown in this music video listing the 3 main tracks from Lord of the Rings to have the Isengard motif (at the least, it works on my end): ruclips.net/video/KXVtpOHQqvY/видео.html
I can just imagine some fantasy duke slamming his fist on his desk and saying "I paid three hundred gold for that armor, by god I'm going to make it HOT!"
@@christinajackson2662 every Duke has his kink I guess🤷♂️ The serfs get a good laugh out of it I bet. “Psst I heard the Duke wears lady clothes when he’s alone, te he.”
@@christinajackson2662 Not too far off from being true, can't remember which king, but there was one who specifically had armor with male genitalia on it for purely aesthetic reasons.
As somebody who is doing character design of a female soldier, thank you for this. You have no idea how much work it was to get reference material that actually portrayed a normal human body and not a stripper covered in a thin layer of metal
I ended up doing multiple designs for my futuristic uniforns. The enlisted working uniform is what she would wear every single day and it’s a unflatteringly square cut tunic and pants. Nobody no matter how gorgeous is going to look good in this. Enlisted combat fatigues are cut some more slimly for mobility and partially for intimidation. The armor top suite is high waisted for articulation and wears unisex. The bottom suite differs between the genders. The male lower armor suite has more plates that are larger because the male form is more straight up and down. The female lower suite has more plates that are smaller due to the extra curvature of the female form. They still look mostly similar and offer roughly the same protection. The big difference is in parade and formal uniforms. The male parade unicorn is model off of the civilian suits and features hi Brigid 90° shoulders and just enough neckline to reveal a bit of undershirt that showcase the muscles of a strong soldier. The trousers are plate cut and close to form fitting. All sleeves are full length. The female uniform has more downward singlets including a neckline that reveals the undershirt between the breasts and a skirt that comes out to the knees. The sleeves are three quarter length and white stockings cover the legs.
@@Mortablunt That’s fairly realistic too. The combat and formal worlds have strong lines between them and an outfit designed to be stylish could display sex within reason, but a utility or combat fatigue issued en masse should be unisex. It costs the military less to issue and fits the context of the uniform and function of the grunt. My inspiration for this is the USMC, where there is no true “female” uniform minus pregnancy blouses, and formal wear.
It all depends on what/where/when you're doing it. I'm make but I'm an ex British soldier but my sister was also a medic so I have experience of things to a relative degree. We have a saying which is "allyness saves lives". Basically ally is looking cool in your kit. We actually all got a massive bollocking because we kept going on patrol with no tops on and stuff and then getting sun stroke. What I'm saying is if a soldier can get away with looking ally then they will. It sounds ridiculous but it really is style over function sometimes. Para reg don't even go full Gary (gortex) so we'd literally rather get piss wet through than be caught wearing waterproof pants. You can see when they got rid if their tattoo policy that most of the UK forces ended up with full sleave and hand and finger tattoos nearly overnight. The women is arguably more interesting to you though. The women did wear lads kit but they get issues specifically women plate carriers and things now because their bodies are different. So women do actually have their own fitted armour now as it's actually more dangerous to be in men's. They also allowed varying hair styles. Back when me and my sister were in they were only allowed a bun in a certain way but now they can have different styles and I can't tell you how happy they were that they can have ponytails and things now. I'm not sure about the makeup situation but they definitely do want makeup freedom. It sounds daft but people want to look good, even in a scrap. It's why they had to allow tattoos and the hands and neck (not throat or face) and why everyone apart from the Army who are stuck in 1917 allow beards. (although that's not relevant to the women.. Well maybe the RAF girls) I also go hiking a lot and I can say most women wear leggings and this isn't exclusive to hiking. They do in the gym and I know a lot of women would prefer to wear leggings in the military. I actually do think if there wasn't a uniform standard (so SAS, SBS, SRR) women would actually choose to wear combat leggings. Basically on the future or a mercenary or modern SF would probably have a ponytail, a small plate carrier and some sort out out door leggings (think what hikers and mountain climbers wear) and light makeup. If not given the choice then they'll just get what's issued and that can vary not only from nation to nation but from force to force
A good source would be medical text books and perhaps stock photos. Things that are meant to illustrate the shape and position of the body, without aiming to entice the viewer.
"Knocking a knight off their horse is generally a win condition for peasants." - That is, incidentally, exactly how a paladin character I made in Pathfinder died at like level 2.
When knocked off your horse: A. You can fall so badly that you can die at the spot B. You can be killed by those peasants before you can "recover" from the fall C. When in a big battle, there are many other riders behind you, so if you fall, you will definitely be killed by other horses Remember, you don't want to fall, so don't give those peasants more chance to knock you off. Don't wear stupid breastplate
I always imagine girls trying to get their boobs in their armour, leaning forwards trying to get those ridicules sized boobs in those metal moulds and having it go wrong because the boobs want to lay flat on her chest rather than pushed up by the metal. I just crack up every time I see these kinds of armour.
The armour in fiction is often form fitting to look cool. In games they just wrap it around the character and make it the same shape as the naked character, because it's easier. Real historical armour is designed to have gaps under it so it can deform and not crush the wearer so you can make it all a similar shape on the outside. Not very flexible though.
Imagine a male character using overly exaggerated female armour (that covers the head and face) in order to attract attention and then fight those who would believe they’re fighting a woman. I’m thinking about writing something like this!
Having fought both men and women in armored combat, I can't think of why this would give the exaggerated female armor wearer any distinct advantage. They're a combatant, and if they have a weapon they're a threat regardless of their perceived skill or physical capability. An armed opponent is always a threat, doubly so for an armed and armored opponent. I don't mean to discourage fantasy writing, but instead I wanted offer a bit of perspective.
Congratulations on making this video and taking the subject matter 100% seriously. First time I've heard this from a female swordfighter perspective. Insightful.
Yes, who didn’t need a 100% serious analysis of fictional content which totally misses the point of how fiction works. Magic and monsters? No problem. Tiny women manhandling guys 3-4 times their size, why not! Armor being visually visually appealing and taking form over function? No way, we can’t suspend belief!
Hmm ... cat armor. Pretty easy to make cat armor, I think. Just take some sturdy rectangles of steel sheet and cover them with cardboard so it looks like a cardboard box. 3D print some kitty armor and put it in the box, so the box looks like a shipping box. Voila! Cat armor! Simply open the box and remove the 3D printed kitty armor and attempt to put it on your cat. Your cat will, of course, ignore the 3D printed kitty armor and instead sit in the box. Okay, this box does not allow for cat movement, but the cat doesn't want to move so that's okay.
I don't care what the topic is. I love seeing someone with real experience, not just opinions, breaking down common stereotypes in movies. Especially when they use coherent and cogent statements like you do.
I really appreciate you going the extra mile and demonstrating the effects of the armor and how it may hamper certain aspects. Thank you for your hard work, this is great for concept art information.
When I was in the military, (not the American military) I had a specific role that boils down to 'person with a grenade launcher'. We had different vests that were designed to have a lot more pockets on the sides (for said grenades) and it was really difficult to move in because it was so big and cumbersome, it restricted my range of motion when getting on the ground especially because it layered over my hips and crotch. Then I noticed that my other female friend's vests, who had regular guns, cut off right before the belt, which was a lot more comfortable and I realized- I was wearing a male vest designed only for men with a longer torso than me. They just didn't design a female version of the grenade launcher vest. It was really annoying and probably contributed to my back injury so yeah, armor design is super important.
They didn't even have a shorter male vest? Short men are a real thing and it seems like a bad idea to provide equipment that seriously reduces mobility regardless of gender.
Regarding the point about breathing, I assume that's why solid metal chest pieces often have a large stomach area, you kinda want to be breathing properly with your stomach/diaphragm if you're running around in heavy armor
I think it's more deflection purposes? Like you definitely want breathing space all over, plus in strenuous combat people will be breathing with their chest, so the stomach having more space than the chest is I think just more optimal for getting blows to bounce off
Breathing is super important. The first time I fought in armor, it was borrowed, and while armor itself gave me room to breath, the arming vest underneath turned out to be too tight, so I had to take it off as soon as my fights were over so I could breathe better.
Yes and no. Yes, breathing is good and many breath from the stomach, so some expansion there is a Good Thing, but also: full plate armors were normally only affordable by the nobility and the nobility also tended to be the only ones that ate really well. Thus, the propensity (but not certainty) that nobles would have larger stomachs, thus requiring more accommodation... TL;DR: the only people that could afford fancy armor also tended to be fat. So fancy armor was made for fat people (and I'm using fat as a relative term here, a lot of it was muscle UNDER fat, but that doesn't change the expansive girth. Also: certainly not obese or exceptionally fat by today's standards...more "Dad-Bod"-ish)
@@insanitysportal6692 meh plenty of people eat well without getting fat, especially if they exercise a lot as a warrior would. Also there was cheaper plate armor that was accessible to not noble men at arms, scholagladiatoria did a video talking about it at some point
I just clicked because it said “armor” in the title. Seriously, very intelligent, and you got us all watching a fine explanation that more people should heed.
I love how Boudica herself was so irritated by modern female warrior stereotypes that she decided to reincarnate and give us a proper education on the matter.
@@Cricket-zp6wi Last I heard, the military in the US was investing in making Kevlar options that better fit our female troops. The reason I know about it is b/c Fox news was saying that it was part of the ongoing push towards femininity in the US military (with the strong implication that is a VERY bad thing).
You deserve so many more subscribers for the level of interaction you have and the quality of content you produce. It’s valuable and is heavily under-compensated
Do the neighbours ever ask why you're in the garden dressed in cardboard and Tupperware, whilst thrusting a light-sabre about? Or do they just act like they haven't noticed anything unusual and ask to borrow some teabags? 😊 Also, "kitties"!!
"Martha! Martha come quick! The strange women from next door finally snapped! She's wearing Tupperware! Tupperware!! And she is talking to herself!" "Oh George, don't be sil- My god, George! Poor thing... It is that virus, I tell you! Everyone is going nuts!"
As an amateur worldbuilder and writer who is creating something where warrior women are really important, I just loved to see this coming from a woman. Thank you very much. You just got another fan and subscriber. PS: I'm also a design student, and you point out several things that are really relevant. Things that can completely ruin a project if one ignores them. Thank you for this, too.
You should also not forget why mostly men fought. A young woman who dies on the Battlefield is a greater loss than a man. She can't give birth to some future children and can't protects or feed her maby already born children. Women were mostly there to give birth and to protect the children. Because children are the future for every tribe or state. Men are stronger build and were there to protect the women and children and do all the dangerous tasks like building, hunting, fighting. Also, even if it sounds cruel or something, how many children can a man have in his live? Hundreds or thousands. How many can a women have? At max 30. If you look at births there are more males than females. At the age of 30 it is the opposit. In our nature woman would chose a man who is able to protect her and her future children. They chose powerfull men. Men who can offer protection or a good live. Men on the other hand try to get the attantion of women with exactly that. And how do you show that you are a man who can offer protection and a good live? You do dangerous stuff! Like hunting and war. And that's why at the age of 30 from the original larger group of men are less alive than women. To be a woman in the middle ages was hard and such, yes. But they lived longer than their husbands or even sons most of the time.
@@jarlnils435 Some of your pointers may raise some people's eyebrows, but they're valid in more than one way, even if it's a part of reality I don't really like, since I'm kind of an advocate for equity. I've been exploring this kind of subject from another angle, with a species that were like this in the past (overly agressive males, always fighting to build harems of passive females, who were tasked with reproductive and domestic duties, etc.), but was suddenly forced into a matriarchal social structure because there are too few males now and they are forbidden to do dangerous tasks, taking roles as breeders, craftsmen (which both genders can be) and insctructors for the young ones. But the problem is, I still didn't manage to "fine tune" it to a level I'm satisfied with. It seems I'll have to do more research and explore these facts you kindly reminded me of. Thank you.
@@ggsj maby you should watch some videos from Lindybeige for that. He has a large content about history, fighting, ancient warfare and warfare generally, but also about this. Don't get me wrong for my first comment. I am for equality, but only in terms of law. I'm german and our law says men and women are before the law equal. That is sadly not working. But instead this law more to push into use, our politicans make extra laws for women. That's not equal. That's throwing mony out of the window. But nobody can say men and women are absolutely equal in all things. Than we wouldn't be men and women.
@@jarlnils435 Thanks for the tip, I'll check those videos as soon as I'm able. And I didn't judge you at all. Even if I'm no historian or anything I'm pretty aware that culture back then was like this (and still is in more places and contexts that I'd wish they existed), and I've made a central point as an aspiring artist and thinker to not run from realities I don't really like. Those pointers are that kind of unpleasant truth that we'll do more harm by running from than facing them (did this phrase/wording even makes sense?). And if you think things are ugly in Germany, I'll tell you I'm from Brazil. Trust me, it's waaaaay worse here. To simplify it, grab what you don't like about it in Germany and crank it up to twelve and this will give a hint of how hypocritical things are here... Again, thanks for the tips.
@@jarlnils435 I'm also from Germany but I don't get what you mean by "the laws are not working". I hope you're not talking about the alleged "Gender Pay Gap". Because otherwise I totally agree with everything you said.
The costume designer for the mandalorian is a woman. She approved ironhead studios armor for bo katan. Besides beskar is thin armor, it needs to be tight.
I very much enjoyed this. I did a lot of theater as a young person, so I know you are spot on about fit, weight distribution and comfort for the wearer. I never had to wear armor or wield weapons, but most of what you describe applies to other costumes as well. I’m also not a woman, but I recall very clearly the issues my female cast mates had to work out. Thanks for a good presentation and for bringing back great memories!
As a large-busted woman who has had to wear modern combat armor, I am always pleased to watch you go absolutely ham on these game designers that have clearly never spoken to a woman in armor. There was literally no difference between my armor and the stuff the guys wore, aside from the size I needed.
I get what you're saying but as mentioned, a game designer rarely has any need to take real world limitations into consideration because unless they're specifically aiming for realism it just doesn't matter.
I wonder sometimes if they know that boobs are squishy ^^. Maybe they think that they are made of plastic like on barbie doll XD. But yeah, I'm large busted lady too and as historical reenactor I wore armor. And once gambeson is on - there's no boobs at sight. Everybody just becomes rectangle ;-)
I mean, they are designing for a fictional world. I don’t like the “sexy” armor personally but why would they have to have realistic armor in their space fantasy with magic? I mean not to mention other games in which the armor is “invisible” just so the main cast can have their chiseled faces and cool outfits always visible. If you’re going realistic design, then yes. Actually be realistic. If not, do whatever as long as it isn’t problematic.
They make boob armour because ita visually appealing to men the same way qomen enjoy tall muscular men. If Christian Grey was a dwarf or an obese guy, no woman would have ever watched the movie.
@@zachanikwano I mean, if a game had unrealistic hand mechanics where the thumb bends whichever way, you'd always consider it a mistake, right? No amount of "but it's just fantasy, it doesn't have to be realistic" argumentation would change your mind on that. It would stand out like an eye sore and break your immersion. It's kind of like that.
Women in the military have been complaining about body armor fit if they have a large bust for years. The US Air Force just started offering body armor tailored for women and large busts were one of the considerations. While it doesn't end up looking like boob armor wearing men's armor is known to be uncomfortable for some women. But in general you are right that women can wear the same body armor.
Yeah the "one shape fits everyone" military practice has a long sour history with busty servicemembers. The standard BDU is not tailored or belted or cinched at the waist in any way, so the everyday uniform turns everyone who wears it into a big shapeless rectangle. My favorite story about this is that one of my mom's army buddies was very busty and a big bust in BDU = an especially fat rectangle, and her sergeant kept telling her to "lose some weight" because of how big it made her look. She finally got fed up with it and went up to him one day off-duty wearing a teeny little tank top that showed off her hourglass figure and asked him "which one do you want me to cut off?" Embarrassed him so badly he never brought it up again, lmfao.
@@HIPEOPLE1887 cause that is a statistical truth, but obviously not always. It really should be considered as "one size fits most" as some clothing is labeled as such.
So in short, "Don't be dumb and just use regular armour" _unless_ you're designing for a noblewoman who wants to stand out, in which case accentuate it a bit, while remembering that Anime Logic does not apply to real life.
@@WookieWarriorz I mean, personally I think super boob-centric armor looks really silly, but that's just me. I do think the point is, though, if you want to avoid breaking suspension of disbelief (and have a stronger overall character design, if that matters to you) then make sure the armor you put your character in is practical for her situation. But if you're just drawing a picture for the sake of looking cool/sexy/whatevs, then you do you.
I think a woman with extra large breasts would need an adjustment in the chest area, as Shadiversity pointed in his last video. I don’t a regular chest plate is practical enough for women with DD+ bra sizes.
@@o00nemesis00o Won't get an argument from me here but I mean I have one of those figma anime drawing figures with decent proportions and the chest still gets in the way.
@@Verbose_Mode Except that the dome is in the middle of the body, whereas the boobs are on the side, getting in the way a lot more/earlier than the dome does. As she demonstrated very well.
Suddenly I'm having a hilarious idea for a DnD character who is a female knight who's self-conscious about the fact that she's small-chested (as is common for hardcore athletes) and thus wears armor to make her breasts appear far larger. Lol.
Depending on the severity of insecurity, it'd be a historically accurate use case, especially if they're a sort who doesn't end up in front line combat much.
That sounds like a gender flipped version of my WoD Ventrue who overcompensated with an grotesquely large codpiece on his armor. I would try to annoy other players by making him brag by reciting his entire aristocratic lineage and make others roll for willpower to tune out or interrupt him otherwise I would read the whole thing.
David Eddings does something similar in "The Belgariad." A princess wants some armour to make war-like speaches in but the armourer makes armour that actuallly fits her and she asks him to remodel it so the crowds know she is the princess and not some boy. He says "Ok, but not clear out to here!" and she replies "I rely on your good taste."
@@trikepilot101 Ce'Nedra. If I remember right, the book cover shows her with chest turrets when the armor actually delivered had a rounded shelf. Sweater Puppies for the algorithm!
The US Army spent a lot of time and money testing modern ballistic armour designed for women. The final result was that a standard 'male' plate worked better than any other design tested.
If you want to understand how practical female armor would work you just have to look at modern equivalents. All the important bits are generally in the same places, you've just got breasts to work around. Which, in armor, isn't as big of a deal as people think. You're generally going to have some form of sports bra or equivalent which tends to bring them in closer and flatter to the chest. And 99% of athletic women, who would be the ones wearing the armor, aren't rocking F cups.
One aspect you didn't mentioned (or I missed) is most people who have never worn armor often don't realize the weight isn't what's going to kill you; it's the heat. I've worn plate, I've worn chain. I spent a year in Afghanistan wearing modern armor. While weight is always an issue, add big boob armor is creating more surface area for the sun to heat up. And heat is a killer. Doing SCA stuff, you could always tell which way the wind was blowing because those not fighting would always be turned towards it to help cool themselves off. Also on your point about skirts, well as anyone whose been in Afghanistan or Iraq (or any of those types of places) the people wear MORE clothing rather than less. This is to keep the sun off them (also to trap the evaporating sweat to make it more useful) So most folks back in the day wore tabards and I'm sure you are very well aware of this. My point is the cut or fabric or design of something like that can help ID the person if needed. (I always hate when I hear people say, "well they can't wear helmets; who would know who anyone was? Duh! That's what shield devices and all that heraldry was for!) Anyway, so many fantasy female armor just up and creates more nooks and crannies for the sun to shine on and thus heat up the fighter. Not good. Like the need to give room for the warrior to breath, you need enough give to allow moisture out which is already tough given you're probably wearing some form of t-shirt under your gambeson/uniform under all the armor. So yeah, skin tight armor is a disaster in that way too. Not to mention the smell! Ugh! Being in a HUMVEE with three others for 8 hours in the heat is something better left imagined and never experienced. I am happy you pointed out about how many fantasy armor with no under protection would result in a LOT of burns. So true!
Part of the reason the people of the Middle East and Central Asia wear long clothes is because of the influence of religion in those regions. Compare their clothes to the traditional garb of the (arguably hotter) sub-saharan parts of Africa.
there was a group of actors that specialized in reproducing medieval fighting scenes that visited my school once, they had the horses and everything. he was going over a lot of explanations and I actually got to wear a chainmail for demonstration purposes, it was way too large for my small kid body, and I was far from being any level of strong. the weight was easily bearable, and it was very comfortable over a simple T-shirt.
Thank you for this! It’s good to have input from people who’ve actually had to wear armor, because it adds levels of detail and realism! Higher surface area = really warm hadn’t occurred to me, so that is very helpful knowledge!
@@KRistos20x6 people in sub saharan africa are also black. Very black. You go there champ & come and tell me whether light white clothing with full covering or traditional clothing from the place suits you better !
I'm just imaging someone drinking hot tea on a cold Scottish day, and looking outside their window, only to see Jill doing a series of stiff lightsaber swings while wearing a giant plastic bra. EDIT: You guys might be right that she's Northern Irish, I was just guessing. Let's settle on UK.
What I took away from this video: If you are a man, cross dress and wear female armor if you want people to hit you more and your actual female friends less.
Bonus points if it's very lightweight (so it's not going to make you significantly more top heavy), you're not primarily using swords or pikes (so the faux cleavage doesn't get in your way), and the faux cleavage is "generously proportioned" (to draw maximum attention). Heck, with a little imagination, the cavities could be used to store spare batteries or fuel cells for your energy weapon... Of course, you'd need to be relatively short and slim - if you're over 1.8m (6') tall and have lots of musculature, it's going to be rather more difficult to pull off the illusion.
Have ever heard the story of the amateur boxer that had a secret obsession with cross dressing. Some street thug tried to rob "her" and got sent to the bone yard! Your comment reminded of that.
Mandalorian armor got a lot of design help by women cosplaying in groups like the 501st and Mandalorian Mercs, people wearing gear, on growed floors & various other exercises. They have fictional narrative help because it's Star Wars, but you can see in the very functional design that Women and Man Mandos gear is movement plausible and makes them visually standing.
The good thing about mandos is that men and women are so equal that there aren't even different words for mother and father, or son and daughter. Just one word for each. That means that both men and women go out to fight wars, and both wear armor basically all the time. It's even part of the resol'nare, the six things that make you mandalorian. So the armor has evolved over many generations to be basically as practical as it can be while still following traditional design. With obvious design choices made by each individual Mando because the armor is a mando's way of expressing themselves. Imo probably the coolest fictional armor in media.
The Mandalorians as a rule were utterly focused and devoted to a core set of ideals. The fact that they didn't draw gendered distinctions or the like isn't something you should imprint asinine contemporary first world thinking onto, because in such a mercilessly martial society the key takeaway is that anyone able-bodied and committed can be forged into a warrior. It's not some glimpse into utopian egalitarianism, especially considering that even the Mandos came to realize that constant warfare and strife was unsustainable in the long term - hence the attempted reforms which led to them becoming far more insular and less combat-driven (in the mainstream anyway). It has some parallels to say the Klingons in Trek, who went from imperialistic expansion to a more liberalized but still tradition-heavy way of life to include peace accords with a longtime adversary on their border. I do of course refer to them in the classical sense, and not the garbage reinterpretation retcons carried out in recent years. Interestingly both groups also wear armor into battle - but I'd have to say Mando Beskar is far and away better than the (duranium?) that the Klingons use in theirs. Then again, I'd be curious to see how well Beskar would hold up against the dense antiproton burst/beam of a disruptor or the nadion pulses of a phaser. Rebels did make it out that a teenage Mando chick was able to render Beskar essentially moot with a WMD that would fry other Mandos inside their armor. Pretty disturbing stuff.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel What I like about the Mandalorian female warriors is that they actually behave like women. Alot of female warriors in fiction are basically men with a female body. Men and women are different, but both can fight.
@@Bearical And that is a bad trend in today holiwood. Instead of making an actual strong independent female character, they make a male character and genderswap. And not ANY male character. The very egocentric insulting male character that people don't actually care for. It's like they never saw Alien with Rippley. Or Ororo and Rogue from X-men, or Mulan from the original tales. All which actually are proud to be female and embrace their emotions and feminine side. Just once I wished to see a male protagonist with a more 'feminine personality' like an empathetic and kind person. If anyone has suggestions i'd love it.
exception not mentioned above: gladiator armor. it's the opposite of functional armor, designed to protect limbs and such that would be non-fatal match ending injuries, but leaving the vital bits completely unprotected for the rare and dramatic sudden deaths. we actually have historical, contemporary depictions of gladiatrix armor: they fought topless. (and were pretty rare and generally regarded as a travesty)
Things I like. This woman knows her stuff, she understands how sometimes it is about the look, can be critical where it counts, uses fantastic examples. Things I don't like. How I've only now just found this channel. Brilliant work
@@jeremyfeldmann7969 But I like that there's a female one speaking through. Since It's interesting to know it from a woman herself. Not saying Shad is wrong but it adds credibility too. I do watch that time with Shad a year ago 2times
I like the idea of feminizing armor through paint. Can be protective AND elegant. Sure, it'll wear off pretty fast when people try to kill you, but battles are actually pretty rare, even in war. Even if there's no historical precedent I'm aware of, I can't imagine it reducing protectiveness, yet still look like desired.
Yep on a battlefield you definitely want to accentuate your femininity. Fancy embellished armor was kind of useful if you wanted to be ransomed instead of summarily killed.
As someone who wears a FF cup (yes they do make them that big) if I am doing any physical activity, they are secured down. A corset or a pair of stays under armour would a) provide a little extra protection and b) mean that I can actually move.
Any woman who intends to do any sort of physical activity (no matter her bust size) is going to want to get them out of the way or at least not accentuate them. That's why sports bras were invented. If someone insists on designing armor that appeals to modern fashion sense, they should look at active wear, for inspiration, instead of swimwear and intimates.
One thing to remember with some video-game armour (skyrim and world of warcraft are notable for doing this) is that it might just be a texture, rather than a 3d object, and so part of the issue that causes (or caused, given most AAA games don't need to save resources by doing this anymore) boob plate is that it is the exact same shape as the cloth clothing. That's why SOME examples look skin tight, because, for budget reasons it literally is just a skin- this could be improved by altering womens civilian fashion to corsets/stays which (if you avoid the super-thin waisted tight-lacing of high fashion corsets and stick to a more sensible version) don't suck in as noticeably below the chest.
“Now, there is a tendency at a point like this to look over one’s shoulder at the cover artist and start going on at length about leather, tightboots and naked blades. Words like ‘full’, ‘round’ and even ‘pert’ creep into the narrative, until the writer has to go and have a cold shower and a lie down. Which is all rather silly, because any woman setting out to make a living by the sword isn’t about to go around looking like something off the cover of the more advanced kind of lingerie catalogue for the specialized buyer. Oh well, all right. The point that must be made is that although Herrena the Henna-Haired Harridan would look quite stunning after a good bath, a heavy-duty manicure, and the pick of the leather racks in Woo Hun Ling’s Oriental Exotica and Martial Aids on Heroes Street, she was currently quite sensibly dressed in light chain mail, soft boots, and a short sword. All right, maybe the boots were leather. But not black.”
Not advocating for armor bikini, I find them ridiculous, you don't need to show 90% skin to have a "sexy" Armor if you really want one, but sometime fantasy CAN get away with it in term of utility if the armor bikini is enchanted or has warding spell or thing like that.
I adore The Witcher 3, but if you got the GOTY edition their is an option to turn on a unique set of clothes/armor for three important characters, one being Ciri and her unique armor leaves her stomach COMPLETELY open. It's one thing for a sorceress, it's another for someone who actively fights monsters and beings from another world.
You mentioned how you wouldn't necessarily want to advertise your sex on the battlefield for various reasons. But then I thought about how if a dude wore boob plate, he could trick other guys into going after him and possibly underestimating his strength. That would have been a funny scene in GoT.
I play COD a lot, and from experience. Enemies do target females the most because they stick out. I’m a good gamer but I can’t kill 3-4 people at once. They finally introduced Charly 🙌 so at least I get a fair chance to fight back 😹 (Because I’m not being dog piled)
As a guy who's always been curious about women's opinions about this subject, thank you. Well said and good pointers. I like aesthetics as much as anyone else, but I'm a firm believer in a fine balance between aesthetic and practicality for armor!
About high heels: I remember Christopher Lee talking about how difficult it was to fight in boots with high heels in the The Musketeers. And if you look at their boots, the heels were really longer than you might think.
i love that you used facts, such as the differences in men and women bodies, and the fact that women are typically not a strong as men, and the fact that you don't want to make a target out of yourself. in battle people won't be courteous, they won't let other women attack women, they would attack the women because they would be an easier target. facts are important when it comes to realism in fiction. i also found this very helpful, i love writing and cosplay so this was actually very helpful.
One of murphy's laws of combat: don't be flashy and try to look like the less important member of your unit, the enemy might want to not be wasting a bullet on the smol grunt
@@SovietArmyGuy I remember a fantasy serie where the army usually wore green armor, but this one woman chose a purple armor to proudly show her difference compare to other people(the fact that she has purple skin). The commander of the army was super pissed precisely because she would draw attention to herself in a battle(and also because he's an asshole who hates her but that's another story).
Me, nodding sagely at this video: "Ahh yes, anatomy. Hmm, historical accuracy, so true." Also me, playing as Noelle in Genshin Impact: "Haha! Stiletto heel maid knight go brrr!"
historically accurate? no. stylish and fun? heck yeah. when you have magic powers and abilities, you kinda just . . . don't care about armor. that's kinda why cultures like native americans, vikings, and britons just didn't care about armor. if you survived, your rites were correct and your favor and magic was strong. if you died, hey, you get the mead hall!
@@WhisperingAila They didn't wear metal armour over their whole body. That doesn't mean their clothing was not designed to be protective. Native Americans for example consist of many different tribes with many fighting styles. Some wore more protection leather than others depending on the region. Vikings' clothes were designed for mobility. That doesn't mean they just put on a shirt and trousers and were ready for battle. They still wore protective clothing. Sturdy leather pieces, and depending on the time period and rank also metal pieces. So they did wear armour.
just found your channel by this video and I'm loving it! you are very kind and have a very sweet talking. it's a pleasure to hear you. gonna try to stick with more of your content
Having done a wayyy too in-depth report on Roman armor a long time ago... so far in-depth my professor made me cut 3/4 of the armor and all the weapons from it, I appreciate this. Both hilarious and informative.
One extra point that is mostly forgotten about is the question of how the person is acquiring the armor. If they are a wealthy landlord of some sort, or an adventurer, they can design their armor personally, based on their own aesthetics. If they are a member of an organization, their armor is designed to fit all comers, and this is what you wear. The lord or commander doesn't give a crap if soldier 482 looks good in their armor. If they want something that fits their form better, pay for it their own bloody self. I hate the "spot the main character," game when everyone in the story should have roughly been given the same armor.
Eh, the main character usually seem to at least be high ranking enough to get something special, or freelance adventurers. Rarely are they soldier 482, though for somebody writing that kind of story this would be a good way to emphasize it.
If you are wearing plate it is awfully likely that it was made to your shape, since plate is kind of a bitch if it's not tailormade. As for other armor, unless you got it from a liege/robbed it of a corpse/had it as family heirloom it is quite likely that it at least got some adjustments when you made the purchase. Most armor is relatively modular, so you could get away with a lot of body shapes. Although I severely question how feminine one will look when there's thick padding with mail over it.
Hey Jill, I loved this! I kept finding myself vigorously nodding to all the points you make. I'm an armourer, and to date I have made 4-5 breast plates for women. two are really silly, one inspired by ancient Greek bronze armour, the other by Ancient Celtic bronze. The two that were serious are based on early 17th century armour but modified to protect female employees at the museum I work in, but to NOT look feminine. On the latter two, I think you'd say I covered all the major issues. The first two... :) well they are pretty. (first time visitor to your channel, but I will view more! )
In one of the fantasies I'm trying to write, I have a concept of "court armor" which is a sexualized version of armor that important rich men and women wear for parades, balls, and public appearances. It's a rich, vain bastardization of regular armor that is never actually supposed to be used in combat. However, even I know I can't use bikini plate because that would still be too uncomfortable for the wearer.
i love the idea! and also: right?? even a bikini plate would be too much (or too little? teehee) for an armour that's _meant_ to be impractically sexy-looking.
So ceremonial armor. Armor that is only designed to look good. Usually though not necessarily completely impractical or useless if actually used in combat
I love how the examples in the thumbnail are among the few that actually don't redirect blows towards the sternum, on a video that presumably complains about this very aspect (among other things).
As an illustrator who works in the Fantasy genre for the most part, this was actually really helpful and inspiring for me. Already contemplating new ideas. Thanks!
yeah just know also women are interested in a lot of gaming/fantasy stuff but are sometimes COMPLETELY put off by our hypersexualization. When you cater to boyish unrealistic fantasies of women you may or may not lure in a bigger customer base of men but you’re rejecting and insulting 50% of potential customers in women. I don’t play games where women are grotesquely hyper-sexualized. It’s directly insulting.
Welp, guess it's time to add a secret order of female paladins to my D&D setting who nobody knows are women because their armour and helmets are designed sensibly. Thanks for the idea, Jill! Edit: Well this kinda blew up! From what writing I've done since yesterday is that they are sworn to silence and have some means of communicating telepathically with their sisters. They are few in number, exceptionally skilled and are effectively religious special forces rather than a regiment or something that could be fielded in a pitched battle. Hope that helps anyone else with a similar thought!
Why secretly women? I'm pretty sure that outside of the battlefield, they'd be caught out. But having an order that doesn't announce that they're female and no one understands why their god specifically called that order that way would be super interesting, and could lead to some very fascinating roleplay.
@@leadpaintchips9461 unless they go the mandolorian route and they never take their helmets/armor off in the presence of others. Which sounds cool to me!
Ironically, the "Dark Seducers" and their counterparts the Golden whatevers (can never remember that name) were supposedly just figments of the imagination of the god who created them, which explains their appearance. And having just played Skyrim a bit, I can say that some of the standard, basic-game, not-modded armor is actually fairly sensible. But most of it is ridiculously bare on both genders.
@@snorpenbass4196 Dark Seducers and Golden Saints. And yes, they are the creation of Sheogorath. They are also insanely skilled immortal warriors. One of the few cases were i wouldn't care too much about the armor. If you kill them, their "soul" returns to Oblivion, where they are eventually remade.
amazing video. And your point with computer characters is really good. Which a lot of studios just "fixes it" with having the actual metal/armor move with the breathing. Like so much animated armor is just fabric.
Kitties! My thoughts on boob armor: Just don't. Your purpose on the battlefield is killing the bad guys and not getting killed yourself. Design the armor around that. When you're NOT on the battlefield, that's when you should wear what you want to look sexy if that's your thing. My auto mechanic wears greasy overalls when he works on my car but he wears nice-looking clothes when he and his wife go out to dinner. Same concept.
It's shocking to me how infrequently people bring this concept up... like... Do you go to the Gym in a full suit or the office in gym shorts? Oh whats that, you're a sane person and actually wear clothing appropriate for the circumstance? Yeah, fictional characters should probably do the same thing. And that is not even mentioning the fact that armor is designed to protect you from attempts to make you not alive, not conscious, or not able bodied anymore; either from the elements or from those that are ACTIVELY attempting to make that happen. Why would you willingly give them an advantage by wearing impractical armor, or no armor at all? You are going into Battle, going into a massive competition with the highest possible stakes; choosing to wear flashy but impractical armor is like playing Texas Holdem, but only you can't use the river card. Except... for more than just money.
Go have a look at Henry VIII's armour! But then I guess he wasn't exactly on the battlefield to fight, so the huge... protrusion falls under the "wear what you want to look sexy" category i guess! Though it's very true that most medieval men enjoyed extraordinarily waspish waists as their look, and they certainly did translate that to their armour, albeit with an optical illusion - the waist was normal sized and the chest was huge and barrelled. I suppose you have to consider that before the concept of "total war", or at least, in between it's applications, battle was a gentleman's game, and most knights were captured by an enemy who treated them as a lord until a ransom was paid, so hardly the same stakes as your mechanic. More like your mechanic when he goes hunting - he doesn't need to catch anything to feed his family, so it doesn't matter that all his gear is "urban soldier" and not actually good camouflage in the woods, but he can go home empty handed without his family starving, he's only there to drink beers with his mates so practicality can give way to fashion.
Well boob plates don’t actually offer any disadvantage people who say it directs the attack towards the center of your chest don’t actually know anything about armor if someone attacks the initial striking point is going to absorb most of the blow and if it does get directed to the center of your chest it’s going to slightly push you back
As a person that does archery, I once put on a fencing chest plate for fun (the white thingie Jill is wearing), and the string of my bow got caught in the chest indent. Not all the time, but enough to not bet on it when you want to shoot your almighty and dangerous enemy^^ Bc, y'know, if the string gets caught your arrow doesn't go the way you want it to
@@neoyan2555 Amazones of legends, told by greek to portray them as barbaric. I mean amazonians were legends all the time because no one *knows* which people could be the amazonians Heracles and Alexander the Great met... But this cutting of their breast were a thing to show them of as barbaric as possible and to show why it is impossible for females to become warriors. It would be blasphemy against the gods (and especially aphrodite) and no one ever in history was able to bind their chests or make use of hardened leather for a breast plate for archers.
@@globalist1990 Very likely only a legend, told by the ancient Greek about the Amazons. Not even all sources that mention the Amazons do portray them that way. From the Amazons themselves, there are no written sources or original art preserved that would confirm it (There isn't even hard evidence that a matriarch female warrior culture like that even existed, although there have been some grave fields discovered in Asia Minor with female skeletons buried with armor and weapons, so there apparently must have been a culture in which women using weapons and armor was more than just a rare exception, but beyong that, we know nothing about them). Undoubtly it would not have been necessary, it is fully sufficent for a well endowed woman to tie that one boob flat. Removing the boob doesn't give an advantage that could remotely justify doing a risky and disfiguring operation under ancient medical technology conditions. If that were a thing, then maybe as a rite of passing into adulthood for a young female warrior, more to show off that they commit to the job and can bear pain, than for the actual practical advantage.
@Chris Rudolf I agree with everything you said but just a side note. There is actually a culture (I think an African tribe but I could be wrong) that does something called breast ironing to keep them flat/prevent growth or flattens them after they have grown. I don’t know much about it but from what I know it’s a very unpleasant and permanent process.
Things are not always quite what they seem. There may well be felonious faux felines afoot; nefarious bunny rabbits in furry little kitty kat kostumes. Fortunately, you can identify these pusillanimous pussy imposters by their _"Fake Mews."_
@@rogermwilcox You have confused Auntie Em with Aunt Teefa. Uncle Grampa will not be pleased, young Jedi, nor will the kitties. Your boobiferous remark shall not disenbooberate you from your boobiferous unbooberation, O ye of little stash. _Oh, the hugh manatee._
the sister of battle at 16.20 is in powered armour with muscle fibres under hard plates. the two huge boob domes are purely decorative (in world the church was banned from having 'men under arms' so armed the nuns and dressed them to show it)
I'm afraid you'll find that armour must i repeat MUST be perfectly contoured to the curves of the armourers ideal woman. Bonus protection is provided by the addition of extra nipples. IE. The Bat-Nipples Principle.
GRRM has a term in ASOIAF that something is as useful as nipples on a breastplate. Aka Totally fucking useless. But yes bat nipples are indeed a must lmao
Well it`s logical. If curved shapes provide better protection then it is only logical that two more curves on the same breastplate increases the armor value! Plate armor - AC18 "My character is female" -AC 20
@mr.wendigo Well, it's partly that I prefer the model for the male armors. Ebony and Steel Plate aside, I personally think that Dragonplate and Nordic armors are more badass when you fit the male mesh to a female silhouette. I found a mod that makes the Dragonbone Ebonsteel mod armor use the mesh of Practical Female Armor's Dragonplate and it's *chef's kiss*
I downloaded all the realistic armor mods by NordwarUA and it's simply fantastic, aesthetically speaking. That said, I'm still bothered armor works the way it does. Say you take a sword cut across your steel breastplate. You lose health of course. Bullshit. Your typical sword can't cut through steel. Instead of pumping up the base damage of cutting weapons they should've multiplied what was left AFTER the armor value. Exception for hammers and maces which are antimateriel weapons - higher base damage, no extra health loss after armor value. Why no one thinks about how combat actually works when they develop a game? 😡
Watching this video has made me realize how effective different types of armor would be in a narrative sense. The type of armor that characters wear could say a lot about their character. A character more committed to learning to fight would wear more gender unspecific armor while a character that holds more value in the way others view them might wear armor with slight disadvantages but looks prettier or more masculine. Good video!
Perhaps. I am no expert at all, but if you take a hit to the horns and not to the helm itself, would that not glance the blow off with somewhat less impact?
As a former game designer I am very happy to see such well thought out content. I found myself constantly asking my team members questions to get them to realize how their decision to take certain actions will effect game play forcing them to pre QA their work. This is video is exactly the type of thinking I was trying to get them to work through. I wasn’t even doing character development in my job, it was level layout but process you go through a universal to all cause and effect mental exercises. Thank you for the well thought out content.
Gosh, that was thorough and well thought out… The thing is, whether for Hollywood or gaming, the purpose for armor is not to protect those who battle in actual combat, but to make them look good in fake combat. Actors, make or female, cast for leads in these projects are not chosen for their androgyny. To hire Chris Hemsworth or Scarlet Johansson and then hide their physical assets makes no sense. These aren’t documentaries… If one finds it sexist to want a hero or heroine to be visually appealing, you’re entitled to that perspective, but why expect characters in a fantasy fiction to be provide icons for “real life” gender identity? But to the maker of the video: we’ll done! From the perspective that you took, you created an informative and engaging video. Thank you!
This was a really nice video that didn't just say "boob armour bad", but gave reasons why it's usually bad, and how to design for compromise if the aesthetics is really wanted.
To be fair, there were different types of plate armor. Plate armor designed for the field, plate armor designed for jousting and then there was parade armor. The field armor is what most people think of when they think of plate armor. Jousting armor was basically partial armor but what was armored was heavily armored. Parade armor was just for looking good and couldn't protect against a spitball and was quite often fanciful, think of it as medieval cosplay armor. If you were rich enough, you could own all three types. Most knights were not rich enough so had to make due with only field armor (and maybe a few extra pieces for the lists and social occasions).
@@zecle people can dislike things without having to make a 20 minute detailed video saying why 🙄 especially when most boob armour is used by male writers to sexualize female characters in a way that they aren't sexualising male characters. You don't need extensive knowledge of armour to understand that chain mail bikinis and large tits on armour are overly sexualised and impractical and you certainly don't need twenty whole minutes to express that. It's literal common sense and clear as day to the people who are having their bodies sexualised. This video just graciously provides exact information on why a lot of this armour is impractical. It adds depth to that, and gives a different perspective of why boob armour can often be a poor or less realistic choice. It often sexualizes women in the particular way it's done and is _also_ impractical. It can be a valid choice if done in a tasteful and realistic way, if it makes sense for the specific character to use or choose it (it's a stylistic choice *they're* making that reflects on their characterization or personality) and if it exists amongst an array of other choices instead of being the only or mostly available option for female characters. That's more nuanced, but you don't need to say all that to have a valid reason to dislike boob armour lol. People dislike lots of things without having to write whole entire articles about why.
I remember reading a few years ago that female cops and army personnel was complaining that protective equipment was too male-specific. But the problem was not a lack of special shaping on the outside, it was that bad shaping on the inside made it uncomfortable and less protective. It's almost as if too few women are asked in the making of any kind of armour.
As a woman in the army the biggest thing that pisses me off is all the sizing is based on male measurements. For example- I am 4'11" and roughly 115 pounds. My vest is supposed to be an "extra small", but only because that's the smallest size available to men. Unfortunately, many units aren't even stocked with extra smalls due to how few men wear them, so I was given a small. The bullet proof plates that then go inside this vest are larger than my torso, so now I have a ten pounds worth of plates that doesn't allow me to bend over because it hits my hips. If I'm laying prone and trying to look down my rifle, my kevlar (helmet) hits my back plate so I cannot look up all the way. TLDR: Women need sizes based on average woman bodies. Not based off of an average sized man.
I can tell you from my own experience that even as a man, that body armor is uncomfortable as hell. I'm not even sure that an actual human is used to derive the form factor that they arrived at.
@@squidhands6941 That might have something to do with the fact that a woman under five foot is not really suitable to be a combatant and realistically you shouldn't have to be catered to regardless.
THere's a very similar issue with seatbelts in that they were designed for a more masculine form--so women are more likely to be injured in their use than men.
One of my friends from the 1990s that was an active fighter in the 1980s Society for Creative Anachronisms (SCA), Mistress Aramantha "The Vicious" was a feared fighter and did have "The Iron Maidenform" made and it is in the museum of the society! Unnecessary engineering-wise, but legendary!
Solid overview. The amount of space need to move the arms across the chest is widely underappreciated. It is even worse for archers who have to cros the drawing arm quite far across the chest. There was a variety of brigandine with a solid domed breastplate that commonly had two arcs of rivets along either side of the chest which to my eye suggests breasts without making any structural compromises. Just putting that out there. As a side issue, I'd point out that using a sword or spear is mostly about finesse with strength being secondary while using a bow is mostly about strength with finesse being secondary.
As an amply boobed archer, I have experienced firsthand the hazards of drawing close to the chest. Let’s say I’m glad I’d already removed my nipple piercing by that point because it would’ve been hella gone. On the bright side, I discovered the many lovely shades of purple, blue, and black body can create 😂
Your side issue makes me think with some amusement about how traditionally in games like D&D, the hit modifier for swords is typically strength, while the hit modifier for bows is typically dexterity.
@@andymac4883 right? And it is like every game, and the movies, books, etc that were influenced by them. Cute skinny girl archers and big buff dudes swinging swords. But it should be the other way around. I mean, not necessarily skinny since studies of the skeletons of medieval peasant women show they were more muscular than modern female strength athletes (turns out working hard on the farm all day is a form of what body builders call "volume").
Yeah, it's genuinely strange how underestimated strength is in portrayals of archers. Unless you're using crossbows or other mechanical advantage tools, it's physically demanding to shoot arrows with consistently lethal force.
@@Cricket-zp6wi No, but people want sexy warrior women artwork, as opposed to a woman in practical armour. Armore stilettos are te more sexualized versions of the real high reel armoured boots. If we are going fo full realism, the helmet even prevents nice haircuts, even it is taken off. The stylistic choice depends on the target audience. For the general male-heavy audience, sex sells better, fo history buffs and feminist woman, realistic armour work better
15:07 worth mentioning that cold bladed weaponry isn't that big a factor in starwars so I think factors like that aren't *as* vital. The armor Mandolorians use is legendary for its protective properties, but they're also supposed to be extremely agile so I think some minor decorative cutouts are acceptable. Clone Trooper and Stormtrooper armor is generally less protective but more effective both financially and coverage-wise because they're part of an actual standing army.
It’s so nice that a conversation about boob armor is brought up by a person who actually has boobs. I have had this conversation with men, so MANY times.
Im a girl and I like boob armor in fiction. Its pretty to look at. I always hate wearing ugly masculine accurate armor in western medieval fantasy games.
Yay! someone actually addressing both the fact that armor needs to be protective, and that people did accept disadvantages for aesthetics in real life! Great video, and you actually doing real combat forms to show how it would restrict mobility to have basically useless over the top decoration is fantastic. Extra points for showing alternatives to plate (I personally feel that brigandine has a nice compromise of comfort and protection), and I found your opinions on diferent designs at the end awesome. Came here via recommendation by the algorithm, was instantly subscribed, after checking your back catalog.
Motorcycle armor isn't so much designed to protect against impact, with the exception of the helmet. Hard plates on the jacket and pants are designed to slide on the road rather than twisting around the body, snagging, jerking, twisting, etc. There really isn't a material we can put on your elbow that will keep your bones in one piece through slamming your elbow into a fence at 70 mph. We can prevent booboos at parking lot speed and provide abrasion resistance in lowsides though. Motorcycle armor should fit fairly snug, since it is cloth abrasion armor, you want it to not twist around your body during a crash. Given that motorcycles themselves are fashion accessories there's often some sex appeal built into armor, usually accomplished with colors and lines. Just about every woman's jacket has dark sides and lighter front/back panels to paint a narrower waist on her, and with decorative piping or creative seam placement you can draw curves wherever you want.
Yeah. Also, pro-tip for people who want to use motocross protectors for HEMA: they're not the best choice. I used to use a typically designed motocross chest protector (i.e. it has a zipper down the center in between the boobs/pects) and ended up ditching it for something else because a well-placed sword stab can easily still hurt the sternum at the zipper area since there isn't anything protective there and it's pretty common for that place to receive stabs. A fencing chest protector or a different style of motocross chest protector that uses impact foam plating and lacks the zipper down the center of the chest like the Troy Lee hot weather shirt on the other hand is better for light plastic sparring and can be worn under HEMA designed clothing to beef up impact protection.
Motorcycle armour plates are definitely designed for impact as well. It distributes the force over a larger area. So hitting said fence post instead of transmitting all of its force to the contact area will be reduced by quite a large factor from distribution as well as elastic deformation. Basically instead of shattering bones you may get away with just a clean break or a dislocation Instead of a break.
My two favorite instances of "boob armor" in fiction, ironically, involve women of small/flat chest. The first involved a Princess engaged to a King who was off on a Secret Quest, and she wanted to raise and army to draw the attention of the enemy to take as much heat as possible off her fiance and his party. She drew up a design for armor that was basically aesthetic only because she knew nothing about armor design, and when the blacksmith/armorer pointed out all the problems but she still insisted on the boob armor, he said something along the lines of, "Why? What are you going to put in them?" and she had to be restrained from attacking him. Another was a sci-fi anime where there was a planet of only women, and one of the main characters had a large boobed breastplate...which turned out to be a decoration of her rank and she was actually the smallest chested of all the other main women characters.
@@MPerMinute Considering how old the series is I would consider it a sign of being well read. Or in my case old. So we'll go with well read for you Michael.
I am a manufacturer of armor (and I practice medieval martial arts) and I confirm that your arguments are very relevant. Being a man, obviously, I like female forms, and I have already made armor with female forms for LARP players, but chest forms were light, never very pronounced, for all the reasons you mentioned.
A reminder that we are courteous to each other in the comments section, lest we incur the wrath of the RUclips naughty words blacklist. And if you want merch, you can go here! jill-bearup.myspreadshop.com/
Also: YE OLDE TIMESTAMPS, as it used to be that you can't click them in the description on mobile (don't know if that's still true, but here we are):
00:37 1. You don't need boob plate
02:23 Alternate options
03:14 2. Divots are a disadvantage
03:56 Muscle cuirasses
04:35 Boob shelf designs
05:11 Cleavage divots
05:39 Wasp waist armor
06:44 Sticky weapons
08:02 Codpieces
08:40 3. Consider mobility (including experiments)
09:35 Two handed weapons and giant swords
10:29 Underlayers and materials used in experiments
11:03 Low guards and power generation in boob plate
11:46 Not painting a 'look, a lady!' target on yourself with your armor
12:17 4. Breathing is important
13:44 Corsets are not like armor, and scifi armor with flex
15:39 Lightning round
Courteous in the comments? Oh bless your heart Jill, you sweet summer child.
This is the Internet.
By the way, the timestamps currently aren’t showing up in the normal way I believe? Off the top of my head (might be wrong) I think when the video’s over 10 minutes long the time format has to say like “09:35” instead of “9:35”
@@mayassf Ah, helpful, thank you 🙂
Are the boob cups like... literal cereal bowls duct taped on?
I just picture you walking in to the kitchen and just saying "now is your time". While looking at them.
In mobile version, having timestamps in the actual video description now may give the video separate sections/chapters. There will appear a subtitle alongside the video time bar, with the name of the timestamp. Pressing on the subtitle may open up a timestamp list for mobile users to select from.
However, I do not know how this newer function works. At the least, I know it did not work for this singular video on my device. I don't know anything else on the matter, though the timestamps themselves do work properly from the description. :p
Here is a working example of the phenomenon for mobile device viewing, shown in this music video listing the 3 main tracks from Lord of the Rings to have the Isengard motif (at the least, it works on my end): ruclips.net/video/KXVtpOHQqvY/видео.html
me not knowing anything about armour or wanting to make armour: yes i will watch this it is very important.
Saaame
Me too
Same
It'll be good for arguing on the internet.
indeed i came here as it looked intriguing
Jill: "cover her vitals!"
Anime studios: this sentence is wordy, and hard to read.
Not at all. In fact anime studios would agree wholeheartedly. They just have a unorthodox interpretation of what counts as vital parts.
@@trolldrool LOL first I wanted to thumbs your comment down, THEN I wanted to thumbs it UP! XD hehe
Haha tldr
Lets face it... most women choosing armor would forget ALL of these practical considerations, and choose whatever was most sexy and stylish.
@@Mr.Ekshin Okay, wait a minute. Who's "most women"? Isn't it the artist who decides what they wear?
I can just imagine some fantasy duke slamming his fist on his desk and saying "I paid three hundred gold for that armor, by god I'm going to make it HOT!"
Please tell me it’s for him and he’s referring to the scanty chain mail bikini version, lol
@@christinajackson2662 every Duke has his kink I guess🤷♂️ The serfs get a good laugh out of it I bet. “Psst I heard the Duke wears lady clothes when he’s alone, te he.”
Armor pour homme
@@MiciusPorcius It makes their lifelong exploitation slightly easier to bear.
@@christinajackson2662 Not too far off from being true, can't remember which king, but there was one who specifically had armor with male genitalia on it for purely aesthetic reasons.
As somebody who is doing character design of a female soldier, thank you for this. You have no idea how much work it was to get reference material that actually portrayed a normal human body and not a stripper covered in a thin layer of metal
I ended up doing multiple designs for my futuristic uniforns.
The enlisted working uniform is what she would wear every single day and it’s a unflatteringly square cut tunic and pants. Nobody no matter how gorgeous is going to look good in this.
Enlisted combat fatigues are cut some more slimly for mobility and partially for intimidation. The armor top suite is high waisted for articulation and wears unisex. The bottom suite differs between the genders. The male lower armor suite has more plates that are larger because the male form is more straight up and down. The female lower suite has more plates that are smaller due to the extra curvature of the female form. They still look mostly similar and offer roughly the same protection.
The big difference is in parade and formal uniforms. The male parade unicorn is model off of the civilian suits and features hi Brigid 90° shoulders and just enough neckline to reveal a bit of undershirt that showcase the muscles of a strong soldier. The trousers are plate cut and close to form fitting. All sleeves are full length. The female uniform has more downward singlets including a neckline that reveals the undershirt between the breasts and a skirt that comes out to the knees. The sleeves are three quarter length and white stockings cover the legs.
@@Mortablunt That’s fairly realistic too. The combat and formal worlds have strong lines between them and an outfit designed to be stylish could display sex within reason, but a utility or combat fatigue issued en masse should be unisex. It costs the military less to issue and fits the context of the uniform and function of the grunt. My inspiration for this is the USMC, where there is no true “female” uniform minus pregnancy blouses, and formal wear.
It all depends on what/where/when you're doing it. I'm make but I'm an ex British soldier but my sister was also a medic so I have experience of things to a relative degree.
We have a saying which is "allyness saves lives". Basically ally is looking cool in your kit. We actually all got a massive bollocking because we kept going on patrol with no tops on and stuff and then getting sun stroke. What I'm saying is if a soldier can get away with looking ally then they will. It sounds ridiculous but it really is style over function sometimes. Para reg don't even go full Gary (gortex) so we'd literally rather get piss wet through than be caught wearing waterproof pants. You can see when they got rid if their tattoo policy that most of the UK forces ended up with full sleave and hand and finger tattoos nearly overnight.
The women is arguably more interesting to you though. The women did wear lads kit but they get issues specifically women plate carriers and things now because their bodies are different. So women do actually have their own fitted armour now as it's actually more dangerous to be in men's. They also allowed varying hair styles. Back when me and my sister were in they were only allowed a bun in a certain way but now they can have different styles and I can't tell you how happy they were that they can have ponytails and things now. I'm not sure about the makeup situation but they definitely do want makeup freedom. It sounds daft but people want to look good, even in a scrap. It's why they had to allow tattoos and the hands and neck (not throat or face) and why everyone apart from the Army who are stuck in 1917 allow beards. (although that's not relevant to the women.. Well maybe the RAF girls)
I also go hiking a lot and I can say most women wear leggings and this isn't exclusive to hiking. They do in the gym and I know a lot of women would prefer to wear leggings in the military. I actually do think if there wasn't a uniform standard (so SAS, SBS, SRR) women would actually choose to wear combat leggings.
Basically on the future or a mercenary or modern SF would probably have a ponytail, a small plate carrier and some sort out out door leggings (think what hikers and mountain climbers wear) and light makeup. If not given the choice then they'll just get what's issued and that can vary not only from nation to nation but from force to force
Some of peeps are still looking regardless of the video.
A good source would be medical text books and perhaps stock photos. Things that are meant to illustrate the shape and position of the body, without aiming to entice the viewer.
"Knocking a knight off their horse is generally a win condition for peasants." - That is, incidentally, exactly how a paladin character I made in Pathfinder died at like level 2.
Yeeeeah, that'll do it... lol
Peasants: 'yay now is ransom time! ooo, how much is your armour worth to you, noble person?'
When knocked off your horse:
A. You can fall so badly that you can die at the spot
B. You can be killed by those peasants before you can "recover" from the fall
C. When in a big battle, there are many other riders behind you, so if you fall, you will definitely be killed by other horses
Remember, you don't want to fall, so don't give those peasants more chance to knock you off. Don't wear stupid breastplate
water, a tabletop silent assassin, try crossing it in heavy armor with a spiteful DM
F
I always imagine girls trying to get their boobs in their armour, leaning forwards trying to get those ridicules sized boobs in those metal moulds and having it go wrong because the boobs want to lay flat on her chest rather than pushed up by the metal.
I just crack up every time I see these kinds of armour.
Real armor isn't skin tight. Watch shadiversity on this subject.
@@Ieatpaste23 I know?
I'm honestly confused as to why you would think I was talking about realistic armour.
Just like how you're told to put on a bra to make sure it fits right! Except a lot less flexible than a bra.
@@Ieatpaste23 Shadiversitu thinks the issue we have with boob armor is metal thickness
The armour in fiction is often form fitting to look cool. In games they just wrap it around the character and make it the same shape as the naked character, because it's easier.
Real historical armour is designed to have gaps under it so it can deform and not crush the wearer so you can make it all a similar shape on the outside. Not very flexible though.
Imagine a male character using overly exaggerated female armour (that covers the head and face) in order to attract attention and then fight those who would believe they’re fighting a woman. I’m thinking about writing something like this!
Cool idea.
yes! subvert expectations!
Brilliant.
Having fought both men and women in armored combat, I can't think of why this would give the exaggerated female armor wearer any distinct advantage. They're a combatant, and if they have a weapon they're a threat regardless of their perceived skill or physical capability. An armed opponent is always a threat, doubly so for an armed and armored opponent. I don't mean to discourage fantasy writing, but instead I wanted offer a bit of perspective.
thats so smart!
Congratulations on making this video and taking the subject matter 100% seriously. First time I've heard this from a female swordfighter perspective. Insightful.
Yes, who didn’t need a 100% serious analysis of fictional content which totally misses the point of how fiction works. Magic and monsters? No problem. Tiny women manhandling guys 3-4 times their size, why not! Armor being visually visually appealing and taking form over function? No way, we can’t suspend belief!
@JohnSmith-op7ls you bringing up your displeasure with seeing women beat up men tells me all about you
Hmm ... cat armor. Pretty easy to make cat armor, I think. Just take some sturdy rectangles of steel sheet and cover them with cardboard so it looks like a cardboard box. 3D print some kitty armor and put it in the box, so the box looks like a shipping box.
Voila! Cat armor! Simply open the box and remove the 3D printed kitty armor and attempt to put it on your cat. Your cat will, of course, ignore the 3D printed kitty armor and instead sit in the box.
Okay, this box does not allow for cat movement, but the cat doesn't want to move so that's okay.
If you want a cat to use the armour, you have to make it for someone else.
@@ltlbuddha and make it out of something that you don't want them near.. Velvet?
@@autumncosandaffect9735 Velvet and velco
i have seen actual examples of cat and dog armor it's not dissimilar to horse armor
Kitties!
Lol I should have watched this video when I was designing DeviantArt OCs in high school lol
I feel like we watch all the same videos. I always see you in comment sections.
what is this, a crossover episode?
This video was made last week.
When designing Male armor you should add Schlong Armor to be historically accurate. Henry the VIII would approve.
LOL
I don't care what the topic is. I love seeing someone with real experience, not just opinions, breaking down common stereotypes in movies. Especially when they use coherent and cogent statements like you do.
Isn't it so refreshing???
Tremendous take. I agree.
Wait, who you are referring to? I know it's been 1 year, but still 😂
I really appreciate you going the extra mile and demonstrating the effects of the armor and how it may hamper certain aspects. Thank you for your hard work, this is great for concept art information.
"Yup, she's out there again."
"Doing the usual thing?"
"...yup."
DNKJDNKJDNK
Why r u peering over the fence?
What is she doing with those yoghurt pots.
@Leon Lopez Maybe if I just wasn't so jealous of how sexy your kink is I'd be able to follow that command.
When I was in the military, (not the American military) I had a specific role that boils down to 'person with a grenade launcher'. We had different vests that were designed to have a lot more pockets on the sides (for said grenades) and it was really difficult to move in because it was so big and cumbersome, it restricted my range of motion when getting on the ground especially because it layered over my hips and crotch. Then I noticed that my other female friend's vests, who had regular guns, cut off right before the belt, which was a lot more comfortable and I realized- I was wearing a male vest designed only for men with a longer torso than me. They just didn't design a female version of the grenade launcher vest. It was really annoying and probably contributed to my back injury so yeah, armor design is super important.
They didn't even have a shorter male vest? Short men are a real thing and it seems like a bad idea to provide equipment that seriously reduces mobility regardless of gender.
Surprised it didn't come in the standard size: too small
@@jfarrar19 oh no hanny it was huge, and I'm not a small person at all, I'm a big butch girl and it was still somehow too big and ill fitted
I never had the curiosity to look up grenadier kit before.
Wow that's a lot of pockets. Must have been popular for carrying nicknacks
@@robadc mostly chocolate bars
Regarding the point about breathing, I assume that's why solid metal chest pieces often have a large stomach area,
you kinda want to be breathing properly with your stomach/diaphragm if you're running around in heavy armor
I think it's more deflection purposes? Like you definitely want breathing space all over, plus in strenuous combat people will be breathing with their chest, so the stomach having more space than the chest is I think just more optimal for getting blows to bounce off
Breathing is super important. The first time I fought in armor, it was borrowed, and while armor itself gave me room to breath, the arming vest underneath turned out to be too tight, so I had to take it off as soon as my fights were over so I could breathe better.
Yes and no.
Yes, breathing is good and many breath from the stomach, so some expansion there is a Good Thing, but also: full plate armors were normally only affordable by the nobility and the nobility also tended to be the only ones that ate really well. Thus, the propensity (but not certainty) that nobles would have larger stomachs, thus requiring more accommodation...
TL;DR: the only people that could afford fancy armor also tended to be fat. So fancy armor was made for fat people
(and I'm using fat as a relative term here, a lot of it was muscle UNDER fat, but that doesn't change the expansive girth. Also: certainly not obese or exceptionally fat by today's standards...more "Dad-Bod"-ish)
@@insanitysportal6692 meh plenty of people eat well without getting fat, especially if they exercise a lot as a warrior would. Also there was cheaper plate armor that was accessible to not noble men at arms, scholagladiatoria did a video talking about it at some point
@@seekingabsolution1907 people had big hands in the past too. You can't assume.
I just clicked because it said “armor” in the title. Seriously, very intelligent, and you got us all watching a fine explanation that more people should heed.
You don’t need to be intelligent to like armor
I love how Boudica herself was so irritated by modern female warrior stereotypes that she decided to reincarnate and give us a proper education on the matter.
I wish more armorers would consider this. Modern/Kevlar armor as well as the old-fashioned stuff.
@@Cricket-zp6wi Last I heard, the military in the US was investing in making Kevlar options that better fit our female troops. The reason I know about it is b/c Fox news was saying that it was part of the ongoing push towards femininity in the US military (with the strong implication that is a VERY bad thing).
Boudicca? Her armor was NSFW!
Boudica was from a society where men ran into battle with their dicks out.
Lmao
"I feel better having got all that off my chest."
You are so pleased with yourself and I couldn't possibly approve of that more.
I loved the puns too. And those moments when she lets herself give out a tiny half-laugh at her own joke? Perfect.
Your inability to say “get that off my chest” with a straight face is delightful.
You deserve so many more subscribers for the level of interaction you have and the quality of content you produce. It’s valuable and is heavily under-compensated
Do the neighbours ever ask why you're in the garden dressed in cardboard and Tupperware, whilst thrusting a light-sabre about?
Or do they just act like they haven't noticed anything unusual and ask to borrow some teabags?
😊
Also, "kitties"!!
"Martha! Martha come quick! The strange women from next door finally snapped! She's wearing Tupperware! Tupperware!! And she is talking to herself!"
"Oh George, don't be sil-
My god, George! Poor thing... It is that virus, I tell you! Everyone is going nuts!"
I would never limit what I do in my backyard for fear of "what do the neighbors think"
@@dazzlemasseur that's what I told the police when I decide to pick up the paper nude but some people just want to limit my freedoms, I tell you
@@dazzlemasseur You are right! What they report is more dangerous than what they think.
Edit: and kitties!!! don't forget the kitties.
As an amateur worldbuilder and writer who is creating something where warrior women are really important, I just loved to see this coming from a woman. Thank you very much. You just got another fan and subscriber.
PS: I'm also a design student, and you point out several things that are really relevant. Things that can completely ruin a project if one ignores them. Thank you for this, too.
You should also not forget why mostly men fought. A young woman who dies on the Battlefield is a greater loss than a man. She can't give birth to some future children and can't protects or feed her maby already born children. Women were mostly there to give birth and to protect the children. Because children are the future for every tribe or state. Men are stronger build and were there to protect the women and children and do all the dangerous tasks like building, hunting, fighting. Also, even if it sounds cruel or something, how many children can a man have in his live? Hundreds or thousands. How many can a women have? At max 30. If you look at births there are more males than females. At the age of 30 it is the opposit. In our nature woman would chose a man who is able to protect her and her future children. They chose powerfull men. Men who can offer protection or a good live. Men on the other hand try to get the attantion of women with exactly that. And how do you show that you are a man who can offer protection and a good live? You do dangerous stuff! Like hunting and war. And that's why at the age of 30 from the original larger group of men are less alive than women. To be a woman in the middle ages was hard and such, yes. But they lived longer than their husbands or even sons most of the time.
@@jarlnils435 Some of your pointers may raise some people's eyebrows, but they're valid in more than one way, even if it's a part of reality I don't really like, since I'm kind of an advocate for equity. I've been exploring this kind of subject from another angle, with a species that were like this in the past (overly agressive males, always fighting to build harems of passive females, who were tasked with reproductive and domestic duties, etc.), but was suddenly forced into a matriarchal social structure because there are too few males now and they are forbidden to do dangerous tasks, taking roles as breeders, craftsmen (which both genders can be) and insctructors for the young ones. But the problem is, I still didn't manage to "fine tune" it to a level I'm satisfied with. It seems I'll have to do more research and explore these facts you kindly reminded me of. Thank you.
@@ggsj maby you should watch some videos from Lindybeige for that. He has a large content about history, fighting, ancient warfare and warfare generally, but also about this.
Don't get me wrong for my first comment. I am for equality, but only in terms of law. I'm german and our law says men and women are before the law equal. That is sadly not working. But instead this law more to push into use, our politicans make extra laws for women. That's not equal. That's throwing mony out of the window. But nobody can say men and women are absolutely equal in all things. Than we wouldn't be men and women.
@@jarlnils435 Thanks for the tip, I'll check those videos as soon as I'm able. And I didn't judge you at all. Even if I'm no historian or anything I'm pretty aware that culture back then was like this (and still is in more places and contexts that I'd wish they existed), and I've made a central point as an aspiring artist and thinker to not run from realities I don't really like. Those pointers are that kind of unpleasant truth that we'll do more harm by running from than facing them (did this phrase/wording even makes sense?).
And if you think things are ugly in Germany, I'll tell you I'm from Brazil. Trust me, it's waaaaay worse here. To simplify it, grab what you don't like about it in Germany and crank it up to twelve and this will give a hint of how hypocritical things are here...
Again, thanks for the tips.
@@jarlnils435 I'm also from Germany but I don't get what you mean by "the laws are not working". I hope you're not talking about the alleged "Gender Pay Gap". Because otherwise I totally agree with everything you said.
The costume designer for the mandalorian is a woman. She approved ironhead studios armor for bo katan. Besides beskar is thin armor, it needs to be tight.
Yes, at least Star Wars is not historically inspired, therefore not that realistic
Oh yeah i agree, but my comment was just to make it clear for thoose who complained about it in the mandalorian (:
@Delta 38 yeah exectly
@Delta 38 *exactly
dont let facts get in the way of a feminist rant...
I very much enjoyed this. I did a lot of theater as a young person, so I know you are spot on about fit, weight distribution and comfort for the wearer. I never had to wear armor or wield weapons, but most of what you describe applies to other costumes as well. I’m also not a woman, but I recall very clearly the issues my female cast mates had to work out. Thanks for a good presentation and for bringing back great memories!
As a large-busted woman who has had to wear modern combat armor, I am always pleased to watch you go absolutely ham on these game designers that have clearly never spoken to a woman in armor. There was literally no difference between my armor and the stuff the guys wore, aside from the size I needed.
I get what you're saying but as mentioned, a game designer rarely has any need to take real world limitations into consideration because unless they're specifically aiming for realism it just doesn't matter.
I wonder sometimes if they know that boobs are squishy ^^. Maybe they think that they are made of plastic like on barbie doll XD. But yeah, I'm large busted lady too and as historical reenactor I wore armor. And once gambeson is on - there's no boobs at sight. Everybody just becomes rectangle ;-)
I mean, they are designing for a fictional world. I don’t like the “sexy” armor personally but why would they have to have realistic armor in their space fantasy with magic?
I mean not to mention other games in which the armor is “invisible” just so the main cast can have their chiseled faces and cool outfits always visible.
If you’re going realistic design, then yes. Actually be realistic. If not, do whatever as long as it isn’t problematic.
They make boob armour because ita visually appealing to men the same way qomen enjoy tall muscular men.
If Christian Grey was a dwarf or an obese guy, no woman would have ever watched the movie.
@@zachanikwano I mean, if a game had unrealistic hand mechanics where the thumb bends whichever way, you'd always consider it a mistake, right? No amount of "but it's just fantasy, it doesn't have to be realistic" argumentation would change your mind on that. It would stand out like an eye sore and break your immersion.
It's kind of like that.
Women in the military have been complaining about body armor fit if they have a large bust for years. The US Air Force just started offering body armor tailored for women and large busts were one of the considerations. While it doesn't end up looking like boob armor wearing men's armor is known to be uncomfortable for some women. But in general you are right that women can wear the same body armor.
Good old 'one size doesn't really fit anybody'.
Yeah the "one shape fits everyone" military practice has a long sour history with busty servicemembers. The standard BDU is not tailored or belted or cinched at the waist in any way, so the everyday uniform turns everyone who wears it into a big shapeless rectangle.
My favorite story about this is that one of my mom's army buddies was very busty and a big bust in BDU = an especially fat rectangle, and her sergeant kept telling her to "lose some weight" because of how big it made her look. She finally got fed up with it and went up to him one day off-duty wearing a teeny little tank top that showed off her hourglass figure and asked him "which one do you want me to cut off?" Embarrassed him so badly he never brought it up again, lmfao.
@@TheGuindo if AngryCops is to be believed, one size fits all doesn’t even work for the men at times
@@HIPEOPLE1887 cause that is a statistical truth, but obviously not always. It really should be considered as "one size fits most" as some clothing is labeled as such.
I think she mentions something like that, at 1:50 ish. Idk anything about this^^ just interesting
So in short, "Don't be dumb and just use regular armour" _unless_ you're designing for a noblewoman who wants to stand out, in which case accentuate it a bit, while remembering that Anime Logic does not apply to real life.
But what if anime though?
If it's anime, why would they be watching this video?
or you do whatever the fuck you want when creating art there are no rules.
the boobs in the armour looks dope doesnt matter if its not realistic to me
@@WookieWarriorz I mean, personally I think super boob-centric armor looks really silly, but that's just me. I do think the point is, though, if you want to avoid breaking suspension of disbelief (and have a stronger overall character design, if that matters to you) then make sure the armor you put your character in is practical for her situation. But if you're just drawing a picture for the sake of looking cool/sexy/whatevs, then you do you.
I think a woman with extra large breasts would need an adjustment in the chest area, as Shadiversity pointed in his last video. I don’t a regular chest plate is practical enough for women with DD+ bra sizes.
Kitties are appreciated! Just found your channel and will be watching more! Love the level of research and attention to detail.
To illustrate the mobility issue: Take one of those artist mannequins and try to move the arms across the chest. Yeah.
Or take one of those artist mannequins and try to do pretty much anything with it, like bending a leg more than 70°. They suck.
Regular plate armor has a dome that is hard to put your arm across your body.
@@o00nemesis00o Won't get an argument from me here but I mean I have one of those figma anime drawing figures with decent proportions and the chest still gets in the way.
@@Verbose_Mode Except that the dome is in the middle of the body, whereas the boobs are on the side, getting in the way a lot more/earlier than the dome does. As she demonstrated very well.
Suddenly I'm having a hilarious idea for a DnD character who is a female knight who's self-conscious about the fact that she's small-chested (as is common for hardcore athletes) and thus wears armor to make her breasts appear far larger. Lol.
Depending on the severity of insecurity, it'd be a historically accurate use case, especially if they're a sort who doesn't end up in front line combat much.
That's Cordelia from Fire Emblem Awakening.
I'm not even joking
That sounds like a gender flipped version of my WoD Ventrue who overcompensated with an grotesquely large codpiece on his armor.
I would try to annoy other players by making him brag by reciting his entire aristocratic lineage and make others roll for willpower to tune out or interrupt him otherwise I would read the whole thing.
David Eddings does something similar in "The Belgariad." A princess wants some armour to make war-like speaches in but the armourer makes armour that actuallly fits her and she asks him to remodel it so the crowds know she is the princess and not some boy. He says "Ok, but not clear out to here!" and she replies "I rely on your good taste."
@@trikepilot101 Ce'Nedra. If I remember right, the book cover shows her with chest turrets when the armor actually delivered had a rounded shelf.
Sweater Puppies for the algorithm!
This girl: Breathing is important!
My swim coach: that’s a funny joke
I’m a boy but same just same
...no, your swim coach would agree. Breathing is important! We just happen to practice controlled breathing... often.
@Juju Schrader ...so was mine. ;)
Please, it's not like breathing is important to maintaining life or anything
@@WhiteWolf-lm7gj Yeah, breathing is overrated
The US Army spent a lot of time and money testing modern ballistic armour designed for women. The final result was that a standard 'male' plate worked better than any other design tested.
Wow. Respectable, fortunate, and unsurprising all in one. Way to go, U.S. Army!
I’m glad the did test it instead of assuming either way though
If you want to understand how practical female armor would work you just have to look at modern equivalents. All the important bits are generally in the same places, you've just got breasts to work around. Which, in armor, isn't as big of a deal as people think. You're generally going to have some form of sports bra or equivalent which tends to bring them in closer and flatter to the chest. And 99% of athletic women, who would be the ones wearing the armor, aren't rocking F cups.
Skeezy Hollywood armourer sleazes up to a woman at a bar. “Hey baby, you fancy some chaefing, thrush, or both?”
🤣🤣🤣
Feels like this is a result of "Truth in advertising" laws, so... here for it.
My suggestion is that we need less plate and more diversity in our armour choices. Like you pointed out, there are so many options!
I'm a little bit distracted by your absolutely gorgeous hair.
Jealous? Says who?! I'm not jealous. Why would you even bring that up?!
Same tho, I want that hair
I'm a dude and I swear, I'm not jealous either....
@@robertwilliams2520 im a dude and i have hair like that so...
Hey! Search up vanilla-healthier hair :D
@@zeash482
Curse you and your luscious locks!
A video I always come back to when someone says why am I designing armor a certain way in my games. Glad you put up proper points.
One aspect you didn't mentioned (or I missed) is most people who have never worn armor often don't realize the weight isn't what's going to kill you; it's the heat. I've worn plate, I've worn chain. I spent a year in Afghanistan wearing modern armor. While weight is always an issue, add big boob armor is creating more surface area for the sun to heat up. And heat is a killer. Doing SCA stuff, you could always tell which way the wind was blowing because those not fighting would always be turned towards it to help cool themselves off.
Also on your point about skirts, well as anyone whose been in Afghanistan or Iraq (or any of those types of places) the people wear MORE clothing rather than less. This is to keep the sun off them (also to trap the evaporating sweat to make it more useful) So most folks back in the day wore tabards and I'm sure you are very well aware of this. My point is the cut or fabric or design of something like that can help ID the person if needed.
(I always hate when I hear people say, "well they can't wear helmets; who would know who anyone was? Duh! That's what shield devices and all that heraldry was for!)
Anyway, so many fantasy female armor just up and creates more nooks and crannies for the sun to shine on and thus heat up the fighter. Not good. Like the need to give room for the warrior to breath, you need enough give to allow moisture out which is already tough given you're probably wearing some form of t-shirt under your gambeson/uniform under all the armor. So yeah, skin tight armor is a disaster in that way too. Not to mention the smell! Ugh! Being in a HUMVEE with three others for 8 hours in the heat is something better left imagined and never experienced.
I am happy you pointed out about how many fantasy armor with no under protection would result in a LOT of burns. So true!
Part of the reason the people of the Middle East and Central Asia wear long clothes is because of the influence of religion in those regions. Compare their clothes to the traditional garb of the (arguably hotter) sub-saharan parts of Africa.
there was a group of actors that specialized in reproducing medieval fighting scenes that visited my school once, they had the horses and everything.
he was going over a lot of explanations and I actually got to wear a chainmail for demonstration purposes, it was way too large for my small kid body, and I was far from being any level of strong.
the weight was easily bearable, and it was very comfortable over a simple T-shirt.
Humidity is big factor here. If it's hot and humid, covering up is less good. Hot and dry more cloth can be beneficial.
Thank you for this! It’s good to have input from people who’ve actually had to wear armor, because it adds levels of detail and realism! Higher surface area = really warm hadn’t occurred to me, so that is very helpful knowledge!
@@KRistos20x6 people in sub saharan africa are also black. Very black. You go there champ & come and tell me whether light white clothing with full covering or traditional clothing from the place suits you better !
I'm just imaging someone drinking hot tea on a cold Scottish day, and looking outside their window, only to see Jill doing a series of stiff lightsaber swings while wearing a giant plastic bra.
EDIT: You guys might be right that she's Northern Irish, I was just guessing. Let's settle on UK.
I'd watch... I'll let you'll figure if it's her sword technique, her physique, or the wierd clothing combination that got my attention! 🤣
@@tyree9055 All of the above?
I'm looking, but all I see is Edinburgh Castle 🤷🏼♂️
"Oi Agnes... Jill's at it again!"
I'm laughing at the thought.
What I took away from this video:
If you are a man, cross dress and wear female armor if you want people to hit you more and your actual female friends less.
Bonus points if it's very lightweight (so it's not going to make you significantly more top heavy), you're not primarily using swords or pikes (so the faux cleavage doesn't get in your way), and the faux cleavage is "generously proportioned" (to draw maximum attention).
Heck, with a little imagination, the cavities could be used to store spare batteries or fuel cells for your energy weapon...
Of course, you'd need to be relatively short and slim - if you're over 1.8m (6') tall and have lots of musculature, it's going to be rather more difficult to pull off the illusion.
Have ever heard the story of the amateur boxer that had a secret obsession with cross dressing. Some street thug tried to rob "her" and got sent to the bone yard! Your comment reminded of that.
Sooo, when you join the Kyoshi Warriors, you should wear their traditional clothing.
Could win you a fight, but all your fighting mates would look at you sideways. Tough call, I'd say.
Oh... I took it as an instructional video for women interested in wearing armor.
There is so much knowledge so fast, I have to watch this video in segments. For drawing, and making costumes, this is gold. Thank you.
Mandalorian armor got a lot of design help by women cosplaying in groups like the 501st and Mandalorian Mercs, people wearing gear, on growed floors & various other exercises. They have fictional narrative help because it's Star Wars, but you can see in the very functional design that Women and Man Mandos gear is movement plausible and makes them visually standing.
The good thing about mandos is that men and women are so equal that there aren't even different words for mother and father, or son and daughter. Just one word for each. That means that both men and women go out to fight wars, and both wear armor basically all the time. It's even part of the resol'nare, the six things that make you mandalorian. So the armor has evolved over many generations to be basically as practical as it can be while still following traditional design. With obvious design choices made by each individual Mando because the armor is a mando's way of expressing themselves. Imo probably the coolest fictional armor in media.
Yet there were still those who had a problem with the female Mandalorians having "booob armor" ignoring that the male armor has a pec indent.
The Mandalorians as a rule were utterly focused and devoted to a core set of ideals. The fact that they didn't draw gendered distinctions or the like isn't something you should imprint asinine contemporary first world thinking onto, because in such a mercilessly martial society the key takeaway is that anyone able-bodied and committed can be forged into a warrior. It's not some glimpse into utopian egalitarianism, especially considering that even the Mandos came to realize that constant warfare and strife was unsustainable in the long term - hence the attempted reforms which led to them becoming far more insular and less combat-driven (in the mainstream anyway). It has some parallels to say the Klingons in Trek, who went from imperialistic expansion to a more liberalized but still tradition-heavy way of life to include peace accords with a longtime adversary on their border. I do of course refer to them in the classical sense, and not the garbage reinterpretation retcons carried out in recent years. Interestingly both groups also wear armor into battle - but I'd have to say Mando Beskar is far and away better than the (duranium?) that the Klingons use in theirs. Then again, I'd be curious to see how well Beskar would hold up against the dense antiproton burst/beam of a disruptor or the nadion pulses of a phaser. Rebels did make it out that a teenage Mando chick was able to render Beskar essentially moot with a WMD that would fry other Mandos inside their armor. Pretty disturbing stuff.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel What I like about the Mandalorian female warriors is that they actually behave like women. Alot of female warriors in fiction are basically men with a female body. Men and women are different, but both can fight.
@@Bearical And that is a bad trend in today holiwood. Instead of making an actual strong independent female character, they make a male character and genderswap. And not ANY male character. The very egocentric insulting male character that people don't actually care for. It's like they never saw Alien with Rippley. Or Ororo and Rogue from X-men, or Mulan from the original tales. All which actually are proud to be female and embrace their emotions and feminine side.
Just once I wished to see a male protagonist with a more 'feminine personality' like an empathetic and kind person. If anyone has suggestions i'd love it.
If your armor doesn't prevent you from getting stabbed or bashed in the vital bits, that's a good sign that you need to go back to the drawing board.
very wise words😂
exception not mentioned above: gladiator armor.
it's the opposite of functional armor, designed to protect limbs and such that would be non-fatal match ending injuries, but leaving the vital bits completely unprotected for the rare and dramatic sudden deaths.
we actually have historical, contemporary depictions of gladiatrix armor: they fought topless. (and were pretty rare and generally regarded as a travesty)
@@arachnophilia427 don't forget that certain Celtic tribes engaged the Romans in battle naked, Nordic berserkers are also an example.
@@TheWelshDwarf pretty sure nordic berserker are actually more of a myth
Also arrows are a thing. And thrown spears. Any number of projectiles...
It´s a great thing, watching Merida become a youtuber in times of peace =)
She fights for her own hand...
Merida is Scottish though, not Irish.
You really put in a lot of work with actual demonstrations, I appreciate it!
Things I like. This woman knows her stuff, she understands how sometimes it is about the look, can be critical where it counts, uses fantastic examples.
Things I don't like. How I've only now just found this channel.
Brilliant work
try the video by shad it cover it a little better she did a good job but he did it just a little better
@@jeremyfeldmann7969 well shad had a trolgy of 30 min videos, this is just one 20 min video, of course he said more
@@moemuxhagi which why he does a little more of in depth. Look at it.
@@jeremyfeldmann7969 But I like that there's a female one speaking through. Since It's interesting to know it from a woman herself. Not saying Shad is wrong but it adds credibility too. I do watch that time with Shad a year ago 2times
I like the idea of feminizing armor through paint. Can be protective AND elegant. Sure, it'll wear off pretty fast when people try to kill you, but battles are actually pretty rare, even in war. Even if there's no historical precedent I'm aware of, I can't imagine it reducing protectiveness, yet still look like desired.
Exactly, like Sabine Wren from Star Wars Rebels!
Men painted their armor, so that’s realistic.
Yep on a battlefield you definitely want to accentuate your femininity.
Fancy embellished armor was kind of useful if you wanted to be ransomed instead of summarily killed.
@Gary Webster 90% of the time you're just marching around in formation while people watch, then in battle nobody cares
They painted shields all the time
As someone who wears a FF cup (yes they do make them that big) if I am doing any physical activity, they are secured down. A corset or a pair of stays under armour would a) provide a little extra protection and b) mean that I can actually move.
Any woman who intends to do any sort of physical activity (no matter her bust size) is going to want to get them out of the way or at least not accentuate them. That's why sports bras were invented. If someone insists on designing armor that appeals to modern fashion sense, they should look at active wear, for inspiration, instead of swimwear and intimates.
One thing to remember with some video-game armour (skyrim and world of warcraft are notable for doing this) is that it might just be a texture, rather than a 3d object, and so part of the issue that causes (or caused, given most AAA games don't need to save resources by doing this anymore) boob plate is that it is the exact same shape as the cloth clothing. That's why SOME examples look skin tight, because, for budget reasons it literally is just a skin- this could be improved by altering womens civilian fashion to corsets/stays which (if you avoid the super-thin waisted tight-lacing of high fashion corsets and stick to a more sensible version) don't suck in as noticeably below the chest.
Or you can just spend some more time and make 2 3D-models for body.
“Now, there is a tendency at a point like this to look over one’s shoulder at the cover artist and start going on at length about leather, tightboots and naked blades.
Words like ‘full’, ‘round’ and even ‘pert’ creep into the narrative, until the writer has to go and have a cold shower and a lie down.
Which is all rather silly, because any woman setting out to make a living by the sword isn’t about to go around looking like something off the cover of the more advanced kind of lingerie catalogue for the specialized buyer.
Oh well, all right. The point that must be made is that although Herrena the Henna-Haired Harridan would look quite stunning after a good bath, a heavy-duty manicure, and the pick of the leather racks in Woo Hun Ling’s Oriental Exotica and Martial Aids on Heroes Street, she was currently quite sensibly dressed in light chain mail, soft boots, and a short sword.
All right, maybe the boots were leather. But not black.”
Oh, I miss Sr Pratchett's writing. Thank you for the reminder.
GNU Terry Pratchett!
Meanwhile warrior women in any fantasy game: *ARMORED BIKINI*
Which is perfectly fine, because practicality is never the most important factor in a game. (Neither should it be.)
Not advocating for armor bikini, I find them ridiculous, you don't need to show 90% skin to have a "sexy" Armor if you really want one, but sometime fantasy CAN get away with it in term of utility if the armor bikini is enchanted or has warding spell or thing like that.
I adore The Witcher 3, but if you got the GOTY edition their is an option to turn on a unique set of clothes/armor for three important characters, one being Ciri and her unique armor leaves her stomach COMPLETELY open. It's one thing for a sorceress, it's another for someone who actively fights monsters and beings from another world.
@@Gerald-of-Riviera to be fair ciri does have her elder blood magic, but yeah, one thing for a sorceress, another for a Witcher
Man fan service.
You mentioned how you wouldn't necessarily want to advertise your sex on the battlefield for various reasons. But then I thought about how if a dude wore boob plate, he could trick other guys into going after him and possibly underestimating his strength. That would have been a funny scene in GoT.
Yes! The Mountain would be a perfect candidate! lol
Dressing in drag as a survival mechanic?
@@TheMrEwe
Guys have dressed in drag for so many reasons! Why not fighting?
Really, it'd just make more soldiers pile on... and he'd get exhausted faster...
I play COD a lot, and from experience.
Enemies do target females the most because they stick out. I’m a good gamer but I can’t kill 3-4 people at once.
They finally introduced Charly 🙌 so at least I get a fair chance to fight back 😹
(Because I’m not being dog piled)
As a guy who's always been curious about women's opinions about this subject, thank you. Well said and good pointers. I like aesthetics as much as anyone else, but I'm a firm believer in a fine balance between aesthetic and practicality for armor!
About high heels: I remember Christopher Lee talking about how difficult it was to fight in boots with high heels in the The Musketeers. And if you look at their boots, the heels were really longer than you might think.
Ya, the only practical reason for someone to wear heeled shoes/boots is for horse-riding
@@FunkBastid how are heels pratical for horse riding? genuinely wondering since i know nothing abt it
@@idontneedaname318 It's easier to lock into the stirrups with the heel. This keeps you on your mount with less effort.
i love that you used facts, such as the differences in men and women bodies, and the fact that women are typically not a strong as men, and the fact that you don't want to make a target out of yourself. in battle people won't be courteous, they won't let other women attack women, they would attack the women because they would be an easier target. facts are important when it comes to realism in fiction.
i also found this very helpful, i love writing and cosplay so this was actually very helpful.
Well I mean the whole "They want to rape you" issue is also fairly important. War usually gets people raped (though mostly women)
What argument for women wearing real armor and not bikini plate isn't using facts?
One of murphy's laws of combat: don't be flashy and try to look like the less important member of your unit, the enemy might want to not be wasting a bullet on the smol grunt
@@SpectralKnight The rape part sounds kind of complicated if you're in the middle of the battle and you're wearing armor.
@@SovietArmyGuy I remember a fantasy serie where the army usually wore green armor, but this one woman chose a purple armor to proudly show her difference compare to other people(the fact that she has purple skin). The commander of the army was super pissed precisely because she would draw attention to herself in a battle(and also because he's an asshole who hates her but that's another story).
Me, nodding sagely at this video: "Ahh yes, anatomy. Hmm, historical accuracy, so true."
Also me, playing as Noelle in Genshin Impact: "Haha! Stiletto heel maid knight go brrr!"
*happy Bless armor pack mod for skyrim se noises*
As long as you don't believe boob armor is historically accurate, it's fine, it's hard to say no to good looking girls
historically accurate? no. stylish and fun? heck yeah.
when you have magic powers and abilities, you kinda just . . . don't care about armor. that's kinda why cultures like native americans, vikings, and britons just didn't care about armor. if you survived, your rites were correct and your favor and magic was strong. if you died, hey, you get the mead hall!
@@WhisperingAila Any kind of armor on my lv. 90 Noelle tank build is entirely decorative anyways... Like Superman wearing a bullet proof vest.
@@WhisperingAila They didn't wear metal armour over their whole body. That doesn't mean their clothing was not designed to be protective. Native Americans for example consist of many different tribes with many fighting styles. Some wore more protection leather than others depending on the region. Vikings' clothes were designed for mobility. That doesn't mean they just put on a shirt and trousers and were ready for battle. They still wore protective clothing. Sturdy leather pieces, and depending on the time period and rank also metal pieces. So they did wear armour.
just found your channel by this video and I'm loving it! you are very kind and have a very sweet talking. it's a pleasure to hear you. gonna try to stick with more of your content
I like how sometimes your accent is really thick and sometimes you can’t hear it.
Ikr. I genuinely have no clue at this stage what country she's even from.
@@spuddart3540 I think she mentioned at one point being from Northern Ireland? Don't quote me on that.
@@maddie9602 sounds northern Irish to me
"4. Breathing is important!" don't know why...but the obviousness of the point and the total casual way you delivered that line made me giggle lol
“Metal on skin is distinctly un-fun”
Just ask Carrie Fisher, poor thing. (Also, KItties!
I miss Carrie Fisher. She was so funny
but there are no bras in space! it's just science!
Her's wasn't armor and who cares about their sex slave being comfortable? :p
@@JoybuzzerX I think it’s more about the actress being comfortable, like Jill mentioned. And the audience, if I might add.
I thought that metal on skin wasn’t an actual thing, they put fluff on the inside of the armor to make it more comfortable
Having done a wayyy too in-depth report on Roman armor a long time ago... so far in-depth my professor made me cut 3/4 of the armor and all the weapons from it, I appreciate this. Both hilarious and informative.
"Let's not add to a generously endowed woman's troubles" Hear hear
One extra point that is mostly forgotten about is the question of how the person is acquiring the armor.
If they are a wealthy landlord of some sort, or an adventurer, they can design their armor personally, based on their own aesthetics.
If they are a member of an organization, their armor is designed to fit all comers, and this is what you wear. The lord or commander doesn't give a crap if soldier 482 looks good in their armor. If they want something that fits their form better, pay for it their own bloody self.
I hate the "spot the main character," game when everyone in the story should have roughly been given the same armor.
Eh, the main character usually seem to at least be high ranking enough to get something special, or freelance adventurers. Rarely are they soldier 482, though for somebody writing that kind of story this would be a good way to emphasize it.
If you are wearing plate it is awfully likely that it was made to your shape, since plate is kind of a bitch if it's not tailormade. As for other armor, unless you got it from a liege/robbed it of a corpse/had it as family heirloom it is quite likely that it at least got some adjustments when you made the purchase. Most armor is relatively modular, so you could get away with a lot of body shapes. Although I severely question how feminine one will look when there's thick padding with mail over it.
Hey Jill, I loved this! I kept finding myself vigorously nodding to all the points you make. I'm an armourer, and to date I have made 4-5 breast plates for women. two are really silly, one inspired by ancient Greek bronze armour, the other by Ancient Celtic bronze. The two that were serious are based on early 17th century armour but modified to protect female employees at the museum I work in, but to NOT look feminine. On the latter two, I think you'd say I covered all the major issues. The first two... :) well they are pretty. (first time visitor to your channel, but I will view more! )
Am I the only one who is satisfied by the inclusion of kitty footage to bring the video to a perfect 20 minutes? Love it.
Also, KITTIES!
Jill: Lots of good points about armor design for both function and aesthetics.
Me: Is that how you're supposed to say "cuirass"!?
Same
In one of the fantasies I'm trying to write, I have a concept of "court armor" which is a sexualized version of armor that important rich men and women wear for parades, balls, and public appearances. It's a rich, vain bastardization of regular armor that is never actually supposed to be used in combat. However, even I know I can't use bikini plate because that would still be too uncomfortable for the wearer.
I want to read this book SO BADLY
i love the idea! and also: right?? even a bikini plate would be too much (or too little? teehee) for an armour that's _meant_ to be impractically sexy-looking.
A metal corset might be the right thing then. Or metal stays, depending on the desired silhouette.
Yes let's get the fellas in some skimpy codpieces
So ceremonial armor. Armor that is only designed to look good. Usually though not necessarily completely impractical or useless if actually used in combat
I love how the examples in the thumbnail are among the few that actually don't redirect blows towards the sternum, on a video that presumably complains about this very aspect (among other things).
As an illustrator who works in the Fantasy genre for the most part, this was actually really helpful and inspiring for me. Already contemplating new ideas. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! 😊
yeah just know also women are interested in a lot of gaming/fantasy stuff but are sometimes COMPLETELY put off by our hypersexualization. When you cater to boyish unrealistic fantasies of women you may or may not lure in a bigger customer base of men but you’re rejecting and insulting 50% of potential customers in women. I don’t play games where women are grotesquely hyper-sexualized. It’s directly insulting.
Welp, guess it's time to add a secret order of female paladins to my D&D setting who nobody knows are women because their armour and helmets are designed sensibly. Thanks for the idea, Jill!
Edit: Well this kinda blew up! From what writing I've done since yesterday is that they are sworn to silence and have some means of communicating telepathically with their sisters. They are few in number, exceptionally skilled and are effectively religious special forces rather than a regiment or something that could be fielded in a pitched battle. Hope that helps anyone else with a similar thought!
If you don't mind me stealing the idea I may have to do the same
YAAAS DO IT!!!! I must request an Eowyn moment at some point though.
Well, sensible armor will allow the freedom of movement necessary for your paladins to stomp a puppy to get that last XP for the next level.
Why secretly women? I'm pretty sure that outside of the battlefield, they'd be caught out.
But having an order that doesn't announce that they're female and no one understands why their god specifically called that order that way would be super interesting, and could lead to some very fascinating roleplay.
@@leadpaintchips9461 unless they go the mandolorian route and they never take their helmets/armor off in the presence of others. Which sounds cool to me!
So the male version of the Dark Seducer armor is actually skimpier than the female version, the upper chest is completely bare from the sternum up.
Dark Seducer sounds like some romantic novel.
Ironically, the "Dark Seducers" and their counterparts the Golden whatevers (can never remember that name) were supposedly just figments of the imagination of the god who created them, which explains their appearance. And having just played Skyrim a bit, I can say that some of the standard, basic-game, not-modded armor is actually fairly sensible. But most of it is ridiculously bare on both genders.
Those are servant dremora of Sanguine. Deadra of sex drugs and rock'n'roll
@@snorpenbass4196 Dark Seducers and Golden Saints. And yes, they are the creation of Sheogorath. They are also insanely skilled immortal warriors. One of the few cases were i wouldn't care too much about the armor. If you kill them, their "soul" returns to Oblivion, where they are eventually remade.
Forgot abut that! XD Guess if a Mazkin wants more protection they have to achieve higher status. Mazkin society is matriarchal.
amazing video. And your point with computer characters is really good. Which a lot of studios just "fixes it" with having the actual metal/armor move with the breathing. Like so much animated armor is just fabric.
Kitties!
My thoughts on boob armor: Just don't. Your purpose on the battlefield is killing the bad guys and not getting killed yourself. Design the armor around that. When you're NOT on the battlefield, that's when you should wear what you want to look sexy if that's your thing. My auto mechanic wears greasy overalls when he works on my car but he wears nice-looking clothes when he and his wife go out to dinner. Same concept.
It's shocking to me how infrequently people bring this concept up... like... Do you go to the Gym in a full suit or the office in gym shorts? Oh whats that, you're a sane person and actually wear clothing appropriate for the circumstance? Yeah, fictional characters should probably do the same thing.
And that is not even mentioning the fact that armor is designed to protect you from attempts to make you not alive, not conscious, or not able bodied anymore; either from the elements or from those that are ACTIVELY attempting to make that happen. Why would you willingly give them an advantage by wearing impractical armor, or no armor at all? You are going into Battle, going into a massive competition with the highest possible stakes; choosing to wear flashy but impractical armor is like playing Texas Holdem, but only you can't use the river card. Except... for more than just money.
It’s fantasy, the majority of the armor is unrealistic.
Go have a look at Henry VIII's armour! But then I guess he wasn't exactly on the battlefield to fight, so the huge... protrusion falls under the "wear what you want to look sexy" category i guess! Though it's very true that most medieval men enjoyed extraordinarily waspish waists as their look, and they certainly did translate that to their armour, albeit with an optical illusion - the waist was normal sized and the chest was huge and barrelled. I suppose you have to consider that before the concept of "total war", or at least, in between it's applications, battle was a gentleman's game, and most knights were captured by an enemy who treated them as a lord until a ransom was paid, so hardly the same stakes as your mechanic. More like your mechanic when he goes hunting - he doesn't need to catch anything to feed his family, so it doesn't matter that all his gear is "urban soldier" and not actually good camouflage in the woods, but he can go home empty handed without his family starving, he's only there to drink beers with his mates so practicality can give way to fashion.
Well boob plates don’t actually offer any disadvantage people who say it directs the attack towards the center of your chest don’t actually know anything about armor if someone attacks the initial striking point is going to absorb most of the blow and if it does get directed to the center of your chest it’s going to slightly push you back
My mechanic wears a thong and crop top when he works on my car. To each their own.
As a person that does archery, I once put on a fencing chest plate for fun (the white thingie Jill is wearing), and the string of my bow got caught in the chest indent. Not all the time, but enough to not bet on it when you want to shoot your almighty and dangerous enemy^^
Bc, y'know, if the string gets caught your arrow doesn't go the way you want it to
Didn’t female archers in the past actually mutilated one of their chests to improve their performance? Maybe just a legend?
@@globalist1990 Some of the Amazones did if I remember correctly, but it wasn't too common because of the risk of infection^^
@@neoyan2555 Amazones of legends, told by greek to portray them as barbaric. I mean amazonians were legends all the time because no one *knows* which people could be the amazonians Heracles and Alexander the Great met... But this cutting of their breast were a thing to show them of as barbaric as possible and to show why it is impossible for females to become warriors. It would be blasphemy against the gods (and especially aphrodite) and no one ever in history was able to bind their chests or make use of hardened leather for a breast plate for archers.
@@globalist1990 Very likely only a legend, told by the ancient Greek about the Amazons. Not even all sources that mention the Amazons do portray them that way. From the Amazons themselves, there are no written sources or original art preserved that would confirm it (There isn't even hard evidence that a matriarch female warrior culture like that even existed, although there have been some grave fields discovered in Asia Minor with female skeletons buried with armor and weapons, so there apparently must have been a culture in which women using weapons and armor was more than just a rare exception, but beyong that, we know nothing about them). Undoubtly it would not have been necessary, it is fully sufficent for a well endowed woman to tie that one boob flat. Removing the boob doesn't give an advantage that could remotely justify doing a risky and disfiguring operation under ancient medical technology conditions. If that were a thing, then maybe as a rite of passing into adulthood for a young female warrior, more to show off that they commit to the job and can bear pain, than for the actual practical advantage.
@Chris Rudolf I agree with everything you said but just a side note. There is actually a culture (I think an African tribe but I could be wrong) that does something called breast ironing to keep them flat/prevent growth or flattens them after they have grown. I don’t know much about it but from what I know it’s a very unpleasant and permanent process.
I'm just here for the word "enboobening".
Also, Kitties!
Yes. Kitties!
Lotsa kitties!
Things are not always quite what they seem. There may well be felonious faux felines afoot; nefarious bunny rabbits in furry little kitty kat kostumes. Fortunately, you can identify these pusillanimous pussy imposters by their _"Fake Mews."_
Shouldn't it be "emboobening", with an "em-"?
@@rogermwilcox You have confused Auntie Em with Aunt Teefa. Uncle Grampa will not be pleased, young Jedi, nor will the kitties. Your boobiferous remark shall not disenbooberate you from your boobiferous unbooberation, O ye of little stash. _Oh, the hugh manatee._
the sister of battle at 16.20 is in powered armour with muscle fibres under hard plates. the two huge boob domes are purely decorative (in world the church was banned from having 'men under arms' so armed the nuns and dressed them to show it)
I'm afraid you'll find that armour must i repeat MUST be perfectly contoured to the curves of the armourers ideal woman.
Bonus protection is provided by the addition of extra nipples. IE. The Bat-Nipples Principle.
Bat Butts are also a necessity. (nods sagely)
GRRM has a term in ASOIAF that something is as useful as nipples on a breastplate. Aka Totally fucking useless.
But yes bat nipples are indeed a must lmao
If we could only develop the technology to construct an armor completely of bat nipples, the wearer would be unkillable.
Well it`s logical. If curved shapes provide better protection then it is only logical that two more curves on the same breastplate increases the armor value!
Plate armor - AC18
"My character is female"
-AC 20
Extra nipples? Like how many extra? 10?
But without elaborate and earth-shattering boobage on the armour, how would the enemy know at a glance that they were being trounced by a lady?
You gotta wait for her to tear off her helmet and yell "I am no man!"
Usually it's there response you get when you shout at them, "I can be defeated by no man!" at them.
Pink armour?
@@riverAmazonNZ
You mean lightish red.
Eesh. I’m so used to the “practical female armor” mod for Skyrim that vanilla female armors are an eyesore.
I need to get me that mod asap
Base armour does suck, which is a shame because oblivion was better
@mr.wendigo Well, it's partly that I prefer the model for the male armors. Ebony and Steel Plate aside, I personally think that Dragonplate and Nordic armors are more badass when you fit the male mesh to a female silhouette. I found a mod that makes the Dragonbone Ebonsteel mod armor use the mesh of Practical Female Armor's Dragonplate and it's *chef's kiss*
I downloaded all the realistic armor mods by NordwarUA and it's simply fantastic, aesthetically speaking. That said, I'm still bothered armor works the way it does. Say you take a sword cut across your steel breastplate. You lose health of course. Bullshit. Your typical sword can't cut through steel. Instead of pumping up the base damage of cutting weapons they should've multiplied what was left AFTER the armor value. Exception for hammers and maces which are antimateriel weapons - higher base damage, no extra health loss after armor value. Why no one thinks about how combat actually works when they develop a game? 😡
@Jimbo Bimbo Like other companies do it right. Armors don't work correctly in DA, Witcher, GoW, and most other games, either. Drives me up the wall.
Watching this video has made me realize how effective different types of armor would be in a narrative sense. The type of armor that characters wear could say a lot about their character. A character more committed to learning to fight would wear more gender unspecific armor while a character that holds more value in the way others view them might wear armor with slight disadvantages but looks prettier or more masculine.
Good video!
"Enboobening"
Learned a new word, today.
You should run it by Susie Dent tho.
I was hoping someone would make this comment
The horned helmet is probably a stupid idea as well.
But how will you know it's Loki otherwise :)
@@JillBearup is it loki? I thought it was some fantasy medieval game character
I mean, it does help if you like to headbutt.
Perhaps. I am no expert at all, but if you take a hit to the horns and not to the helm itself, would that not glance the blow off with somewhat less impact?
The Germans had horned helmets during WW1. How did that go for them..? Case closed.
As a former game designer I am very happy to see such well thought out content. I found myself constantly asking my team members questions to get them to realize how their decision to take certain actions will effect game play forcing them to pre QA their work. This is video is exactly the type of thinking I was trying to get them to work through. I wasn’t even doing character development in my job, it was level layout but process you go through a universal to all cause and effect mental exercises. Thank you for the well thought out content.
Gosh, that was thorough and well thought out…
The thing is, whether for Hollywood or gaming, the purpose for armor is not to protect those who battle in actual combat, but to make them look good in fake combat.
Actors, make or female, cast for leads in these projects are not chosen for their androgyny. To hire Chris Hemsworth or Scarlet Johansson and then hide their physical assets makes no sense. These aren’t documentaries…
If one finds it sexist to want a hero or heroine to be visually appealing, you’re entitled to that perspective, but why expect characters in a fantasy fiction to be provide icons for “real life” gender identity?
But to the maker of the video: we’ll done! From the perspective that you took, you created an informative and engaging video. Thank you!
This was a really nice video that didn't just say "boob armour bad", but gave reasons why it's usually bad, and how to design for compromise if the aesthetics is really wanted.
To be fair, there were different types of plate armor. Plate armor designed for the field, plate armor designed for jousting and then there was parade armor. The field armor is what most people think of when they think of plate armor. Jousting armor was basically partial armor but what was armored was heavily armored. Parade armor was just for looking good and couldn't protect against a spitball and was quite often fanciful, think of it as medieval cosplay armor.
If you were rich enough, you could own all three types. Most knights were not rich enough so had to make due with only field armor (and maybe a few extra pieces for the lists and social occasions).
That's usually how intelligent people Make videos or write articles.
Please don't let twitter make you lose faih in humqnity.
@@zecle people can dislike things without having to make a 20 minute detailed video saying why 🙄 especially when most boob armour is used by male writers to sexualize female characters in a way that they aren't sexualising male characters. You don't need extensive knowledge of armour to understand that chain mail bikinis and large tits on armour are overly sexualised and impractical and you certainly don't need twenty whole minutes to express that. It's literal common sense and clear as day to the people who are having their bodies sexualised.
This video just graciously provides exact information on why a lot of this armour is impractical. It adds depth to that, and gives a different perspective of why boob armour can often be a poor or less realistic choice. It often sexualizes women in the particular way it's done and is _also_ impractical. It can be a valid choice if done in a tasteful and realistic way, if it makes sense for the specific character to use or choose it (it's a stylistic choice *they're* making that reflects on their characterization or personality) and if it exists amongst an array of other choices instead of being the only or mostly available option for female characters. That's more nuanced, but you don't need to say all that to have a valid reason to dislike boob armour lol. People dislike lots of things without having to write whole entire articles about why.
Just another "Kitties!" for the algorithm.
+1 for the Kitties
+😸
😅😹
I remember reading a few years ago that female cops and army personnel was complaining that protective equipment was too male-specific. But the problem was not a lack of special shaping on the outside, it was that bad shaping on the inside made it uncomfortable and less protective. It's almost as if too few women are asked in the making of any kind of armour.
As a woman in the army the biggest thing that pisses me off is all the sizing is based on male measurements. For example- I am 4'11" and roughly 115 pounds. My vest is supposed to be an "extra small", but only because that's the smallest size available to men. Unfortunately, many units aren't even stocked with extra smalls due to how few men wear them, so I was given a small. The bullet proof plates that then go inside this vest are larger than my torso, so now I have a ten pounds worth of plates that doesn't allow me to bend over because it hits my hips. If I'm laying prone and trying to look down my rifle, my kevlar (helmet) hits my back plate so I cannot look up all the way.
TLDR: Women need sizes based on average woman bodies. Not based off of an average sized man.
@@squidhands6941 I know that the Swedish Army is working on ”female” gear as we speak & I’m kinda proud of it! ❤️
I can tell you from my own experience that even as a man, that body armor is uncomfortable as hell. I'm not even sure that an actual human is used to derive the form factor that they arrived at.
@@squidhands6941 That might have something to do with the fact that a woman under five foot is not really suitable to be a combatant and realistically you shouldn't have to be catered to regardless.
THere's a very similar issue with seatbelts in that they were designed for a more masculine form--so women are more likely to be injured in their use than men.
One of my friends from the 1990s that was an active fighter in the 1980s Society for Creative Anachronisms (SCA), Mistress Aramantha "The Vicious" was a feared fighter and did have "The Iron Maidenform" made and it is in the museum of the society!
Unnecessary engineering-wise, but legendary!
There is not enough confusion.
"Puppies!"
Solid overview. The amount of space need to move the arms across the chest is widely underappreciated. It is even worse for archers who have to cros the drawing arm quite far across the chest.
There was a variety of brigandine with a solid domed breastplate that commonly had two arcs of rivets along either side of the chest which to my eye suggests breasts without making any structural compromises. Just putting that out there.
As a side issue, I'd point out that using a sword or spear is mostly about finesse with strength being secondary while using a bow is mostly about strength with finesse being secondary.
As an amply boobed archer, I have experienced firsthand the hazards of drawing close to the chest. Let’s say I’m glad I’d already removed my nipple piercing by that point because it would’ve been hella gone. On the bright side, I discovered the many lovely shades of purple, blue, and black body can create 😂
Your side issue makes me think with some amusement about how traditionally in games like D&D, the hit modifier for swords is typically strength, while the hit modifier for bows is typically dexterity.
@@andymac4883 right? And it is like every game, and the movies, books, etc that were influenced by them. Cute skinny girl archers and big buff dudes swinging swords. But it should be the other way around. I mean, not necessarily skinny since studies of the skeletons of medieval peasant women show they were more muscular than modern female strength athletes (turns out working hard on the farm all day is a form of what body builders call "volume").
Yeah, it's genuinely strange how underestimated strength is in portrayals of archers. Unless you're using crossbows or other mechanical advantage tools, it's physically demanding to shoot arrows with consistently lethal force.
@@christinajackson2662 Oh god... I flinched at the thought of the piercing...
I just want to say I laughed way too hard at “battle stilettos and combat wedges” oh the impracticality of it all lol
😅😅😅
They actually make some sense, as heeled boots were meant to make you a more stable table in stirrups.
@@tyaty Somehow, I don't think the armor designers had sky-high stiletto heels in mind for high-heeled shoes on their clients!
What other super practical footwear could we have? War wellies? Assault flip-flops?
@@Cricket-zp6wi
No, but people want sexy warrior women artwork, as opposed to a woman in practical armour.
Armore stilettos are te more sexualized versions of the real high reel armoured boots.
If we are going fo full realism, the helmet even prevents nice haircuts, even it is taken off.
The stylistic choice depends on the target audience. For the general male-heavy audience, sex sells better, fo history buffs and feminist woman, realistic armour work better
15:07
worth mentioning that cold bladed weaponry isn't that big a factor in starwars so I think factors like that aren't *as* vital.
The armor Mandolorians use is legendary for its protective properties, but they're also supposed to be extremely agile so I think some minor decorative cutouts are acceptable.
Clone Trooper and Stormtrooper armor is generally less protective but more effective both financially and coverage-wise because they're part of an actual standing army.
It’s so nice that a conversation about boob armor is brought up by a person who actually has boobs. I have had this conversation with men, so MANY times.
what was the outcome
@Crystal Kanashii I mean if the suspension of disbelief is there in the world, then let them be sexy haha
Im a girl and I like boob armor in fiction. Its pretty to look at. I always hate wearing ugly masculine accurate armor in western medieval fantasy games.
I know a guy with man boobs lol
Consider: Who pays more attention to boobs?
Yay! someone actually addressing both the fact that armor needs to be protective, and that people did accept disadvantages for aesthetics in real life! Great video, and you actually doing real combat forms to show how it would restrict mobility to have basically useless over the top decoration is fantastic.
Extra points for showing alternatives to plate (I personally feel that brigandine has a nice compromise of comfort and protection), and I found your opinions on diferent designs at the end awesome. Came here via recommendation by the algorithm, was instantly subscribed, after checking your back catalog.
This lady is an actual medieval woman time travelling to the future only to see how the future generations are depicting the women from her era
It’s Merida from brave.. so yeah
Thanks for the technical breakdown of armour fits and practicality behind it.
Kitties! The Mandalorian women's armor is also intended to stop primarily ranged energy weapons, not melee, so that is also something to remember.
Motorcycle armor isn't so much designed to protect against impact, with the exception of the helmet. Hard plates on the jacket and pants are designed to slide on the road rather than twisting around the body, snagging, jerking, twisting, etc.
There really isn't a material we can put on your elbow that will keep your bones in one piece through slamming your elbow into a fence at 70 mph. We can prevent booboos at parking lot speed and provide abrasion resistance in lowsides though.
Motorcycle armor should fit fairly snug, since it is cloth abrasion armor, you want it to not twist around your body during a crash.
Given that motorcycles themselves are fashion accessories there's often some sex appeal built into armor, usually accomplished with colors and lines. Just about every woman's jacket has dark sides and lighter front/back panels to paint a narrower waist on her, and with decorative piping or creative seam placement you can draw curves wherever you want.
Yeah. Also, pro-tip for people who want to use motocross protectors for HEMA: they're not the best choice. I used to use a typically designed motocross chest protector (i.e. it has a zipper down the center in between the boobs/pects) and ended up ditching it for something else because a well-placed sword stab can easily still hurt the sternum at the zipper area since there isn't anything protective there and it's pretty common for that place to receive stabs. A fencing chest protector or a different style of motocross chest protector that uses impact foam plating and lacks the zipper down the center of the chest like the Troy Lee hot weather shirt on the other hand is better for light plastic sparring and can be worn under HEMA designed clothing to beef up impact protection.
Motorcycle armour plates are definitely designed for impact as well. It distributes the force over a larger area.
So hitting said fence post instead of transmitting all of its force to the contact area will be reduced by quite a large factor from distribution as well as elastic deformation.
Basically instead of shattering bones you may get away with just a clean break or a dislocation Instead of a break.
@@CoryPchajek I think the idea was his tech improved to maintain the same protection even when smaller and sleeker.
My two favorite instances of "boob armor" in fiction, ironically, involve women of small/flat chest.
The first involved a Princess engaged to a King who was off on a Secret Quest, and she wanted to raise and army to draw the attention of the enemy to take as much heat as possible off her fiance and his party. She drew up a design for armor that was basically aesthetic only because she knew nothing about armor design, and when the blacksmith/armorer pointed out all the problems but she still insisted on the boob armor, he said something along the lines of, "Why? What are you going to put in them?" and she had to be restrained from attacking him.
Another was a sci-fi anime where there was a planet of only women, and one of the main characters had a large boobed breastplate...which turned out to be a decoration of her rank and she was actually the smallest chested of all the other main women characters.
So, name of stories?
@@RannonSiThe first is The Belgariad series by David Eddings. The boob armor happens in the last book, iirc.
Dear Ce'nedra, I'd forgotten the armor part.
Is it bad that I knew the first one was The Belgariad by David Eddings right away?
@@MPerMinute Considering how old the series is I would consider it a sign of being well read. Or in my case old. So we'll go with well read for you Michael.
I am a manufacturer of armor (and I practice medieval martial arts) and I confirm that your arguments are very relevant. Being a man, obviously, I like female forms, and I have already made armor with female forms for LARP players, but chest forms were light, never very pronounced, for all the reasons you mentioned.