You Don't Need Plans for Woodworking.
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- Doing it yourself? All part of the plan.
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I occasionally buy plans that inspire the project. Mostly because that is the way I choose to give back to the creators that entertain me and educate me.
Your drawing/list is a plan. Your point that you do not need plans from someone else is very true, I generally draw my own plans for all of the projects I do. Keep up the good work.
I still think you don't need plans for some things, if you're making a dovetail box out of a plank for example the measurements are already there.
From the perspective of a draftsman, plans are often misunderstood as being fixed in stone and something that must be adhered to (outside of contractual agreements and record keeping).
To put it simply - a plan is a *Map of Intent*
Plans are a method to communicate to other people involved (including yourself) what the final form of the project will be *at that point in time*. If an issue is found, we literally "go back to the drawing board" in order to "make a change of plans" to match the new, more realistic outcome.
In the context of woodworking, plans are a great way to . . . plan ahead . . .for what materials you need to prepare, to help predict the total cost, to minimise wastage (time, money, materials), and as a reference to follow during the construction phase. As Rex points out, you will probably want to tweak plans for your own design. So it is then wise to update the plans to record it for future reference - especially if you intend to make a higher quality version, share it, manufacture it, etc.
So the idea of "going in without a plan" is still actually a plan! You just haven't yet brought that fuzzy idea in your head into clear focus by mapping it out as a diagram, list, steps etc. The word 'design' is the process of clarifying that fuzzy idea, and so the old saying 'Measure Twice, Cut Once" is really a reminder to check your 'map of intent' before you make a wasteful mistake. The only way to do that is to have a plan!
Watching a Rob Cosman live video, he was showing his sharpening station. He mentioned people asked if he had the plans for it. He says, it's two pieces of wood. Some people just don't know how to make something without plans. I've come to the conclusion that if I watch a video of something I want to build, I can copy it just watching the video, no plans needed.
That's usually what I do too. But if it's Rex, or Keith at rag n bone brown I'll still buy the plans to support them because of all they do. But it's not something I have to do necessarily
I have never used plans. But I also am not a fine woodworker. I enjoy making things by eye like tool handles, greenwood mallets, low benches and firewood round tables. Rough wood working is just a lot of fun for me and much more natural.
I built myself a headphone stand out of pipe and a wooden based based a number of RUclips videos I had seen. A friend of mine saw it and asked me to build one for her but "Not so industrial looking". I couldn't find anything that was inline with my vision so I just came up with my own. Two boards. One with a dado. The other fits into it. I cut an interesting shape in the vertical piece. Nothing fancy but it worked. Then she told me it had to be portable to take into the office so I used magnets instead of gluing the pieces together. Look at me improvising! 😊
Yes, this was a very simple project but it gave me more joy to build that than anything else I've made.
I run a woodwork group for adults with autism and learning difficulties, and I used to do what I do at home and not use plans and go with the flow. But I've tried working from some plans recently and found it's really help some of the guys who struggled before start to understand projects more, having the visual aid of the bigger picture and seeing how what we are doing fits together. I think they also like it because it gives them more agency to tell me what we are doing next rather than me just telling them what to do.
I have learned that I absolutely need a 3D drawing of whatever I am going to make, to get my wife's approval before starting the project 😁
I keep a notebook for my design sketches. I keep refining and changing my drawings of cabinets, my shaving horse, whatever I want to build until I’m happy with it. I draw the item from all sides. Then, when I start building, sometimes I stumble into a better idea or an amendment, so I pencil out my modification in my notebook
My notebook has become quite a personal treasure.
Thanks Rex. This is great advice. Last weekend I built my first bit o furniture, a shoe rack, and basically did a simple sketch and winged it. Mistakes were made, and corrected, and most importantly lessons were learned (the top needs to be wider than the shelves!). Had I followed plans, no wisdom would have been gained. Errors are required for learning.
When I first started in woodworking I used plans mainly for my own sense of security in building. As I got more comfortable with my tools and skills, I still started with plans, but frequently made adjustments to the plans to fit my needs and found it quite satisfying. I still start with plans, but I find myself building my own projects based on my simple drawing, though my drawings might be based on studying plans from similar projects from three or four different sources. I am currently working on a project trying only using my supply of scrap wood. I enjoy your videos very much.
Such a true video, i almost never use anything more than a vague idea of height and length and such. Part of the way i enjoy woodworking is the winging it itself!
Great stuff as usual, mr Krueger. Sometimes you need to provide children with assistance and guidance (plans), sometimes just a smile and a nod are enough (no plans).
Thank you!
The design process used here is pretty much exactly how I do stuff.
1) get a rough idea
2) make a crappy drawing
3) figure out dimensions
4) just wing the rest of it
I also thought it was cool seeing you use that socket for a small curve. I've used the trick I learned from RUclips (maybe even from Rex originally) about just grabbing something round to trace but I had never thought of a socket and that could definitely come in handy sometime and makes me think of more stuff I might use.
I made a little 3 drawer box for my 3 grits of 5” diameter sandpaper. Made it out of entirely offcuts and cheap plywood scraps and refrained from using CAD which was hard because I’m an engineer by day.
Super happy with how the drawer runners I designed came out and it’s one of the most simple but beloved projects I’ve done in my first 6 months of woodworking.
The only time I'll really plan a project is if needs to fit with something else specifically or I need a shopping list of expensive material. Outside that all my projects evolve as they get built
I just learned this lesson the hard way. I made detailed plans, but soon after starting I had to make adjustments, and the meticulous plans became a rough guide. The silver lining is that by trusting yourself you gain confidence, and get lots of practice thinking on your feet and solving problems quickly. I’m finding out that the semi-improvised finished product is better than the one i spent hours drawing.
Perfect !! 😀 I almost fell out of my chair laughing 😀 when you say "don't pretend you don't do it" 'cause of course I do... 😀 Of course, as always, a great video. Thank you. 👌👍🤌
last weekend I picked up 10 sheets of bargain 9mm plywood- (30" x15" for £1 each) I decided to make some small storage boxes (4 sides and a base) roughly 10" x 4" x 2 3/4". I had an example already.
I call these table saw boxes as everything is done on the table saw, set the width of the strips using the existing box. cut the strips, set the saw to about 3mm and cut a slot down all of the strips (for the base), set the saw to the 4" width using the existing box, and cut 2 ends from each strip. set a line for the box length by comparing against the existing, then cut 2 sides from each strip . I got 5 strips from a sheet of ply, and each makes a box with about 2" waste. then its cutting the rebates for the sides onto the ends ( this is a blade width with the saw set to the thickness of the board, this gives 2 shallow rebates on each end. for the bases I have some 2mm fibreboard sheet length is the inside box measure plus 1/8" width is the inside box measure plus 1/8" (allows a slightly loose bottom) now its just a glue and 24g pin nailer to put it together (saves using clamps) and in about 30 minutes or so I have made 5 stackable boxes for storing 'stuff' put them on a shelf, write whats in them on the front and theres a storage solution. I have 9 boxes done already, 6 more awaiting glueing and 4 sheets of ply left to make another 20 boxes. (I also made some DVD storage boxes from the first couple of sheets.
OK I hear you say you did all that with a table saw- yes for speed and convenience, but it could all be done by hand, it would just take longer.
That's the way to do it Rex.
I never work from plans and don't spend money on wood.
My house is furnished with Me made furniture which is all made from reclyed wood or pallet wood. I am a little bit dyslexic and plans just confuse me. I do copy styles.
I live in a 125 year old house in Tasmania so reproduce furniture that suits the house.
My procedure is normally
Make basic measurements to suit it's intended location and function.
Search my supply of old timber and get stuck into it.
The wood usually helps, it sort of tells you what it wants to be.
To me making furniture is like painting. Artists don't plan every stroke. They start with a basic sketch and build from there.
You can change your mind as many times as you like untill it suits you.
Geoff and old man in Tasmania
Awesome build!
The spray can/sandpaper technique is genius
"By Hand and Eye" is a fantastic book. go buy it.
My project is a hexaganal aquarium stand, where I drew up the plans in SketchUp. The processes to put it together though, I just come up with on the fly. It's taken me many months to get to where I am right now. Speaking of which, I recorded a lot of footage for it, and I eventually plan on editing all of it into a video.
"I can't draw but don't let that stop you." Cracked me up..... Me too!
The point to _By Hand & Eye_ is appreciated … just ordered the pdf and it looks like an excellent read.
If you draw up your plans after you make the project, the measurements are spot on!
I agree your quick drawing and cut list is plan. Even paul sellers only does a quick free hand drawing and cut list. I use a book to mine in so if I need to do another one I know what to do. We'll done I like that you pine.
I usually buy plans to get ballpark dimensions, but I agree with everything Rex says here.
I've bought a few plans from Rex just so show some (small) support.
Another great video!
I've said this before, I love the content of your channel. Talk about winging it, I need to build a mudroom locker for a member of my family and did not like the plans that I saw, but I needed a starting point. What I ended up doing is taking the basic shapes of what I wanted and put in the dimensions that suited me. It's coming along and I'm making changes as I go along. Enjoying the build so far.
Most of my inspiration comes from scrolling Pinterest, etc. I never buy plans (sorry). I'm retired and get requests for custom-made stuff regularly. I no longer take "orders", but I invite folks to the shop where I provide the tools, space and experience. They provide the willingness to learn and do the work. The biggest issue I found is that most people want to measure everything!! The last project, my neighbor showed up with a tape measure clipped to his belt. I preached "cut-to-fit and he would try to "measure-to-fit". He tried to get down to 1/256". Finally, his wife told him to put the tape measure in the truck and behave. Haha.
Great video...I've always found that plans just get in my way.
I tend to work pretty much like you did here: No detailed plans, cut lists etc, but a general idea, and a solid dose of improvising :) A mediocre product that I thought up myself is better than a nice piece thought up by someone else... -That being said, I steal ideas from everywhere and anywhere, including your very inspiring videos :D
Loved the video, lesson and the note box! Beautiful and tasteful accents to give it some class ❤
I’m currently waiting on a formwork job to get moving, so I am building some finishing trim for a built in couch my father built a couple years ago. I asked for some drawings and was told I could figure it out. A week later and I have the design planned out in my head, the main joinery cut, and am getting set to sort out the router edges this week. I’ve even designed and mostly assembled a scrap bench to practice ideas on.
I'm building a small box to hold some tools. I couldn't quite come up with how to attach the lid with the hinges that I have which are small. Your video gave me an idea of putting a small strip of wood with the hinges that I have across the back edge to attach the lid. Anyway very nice video. I often work as you do off the top of my head as I build but sometimes need a little help. Watching your videos does help me alot. Thank you for the videos. I do enjoy them and look forward to watching more.
@0:19 As time goes on, this is becoming more and more my philosophy.. I built a lathe cart without any sort of plan, just an idea in my head. I just wrote down a few measurements and went step by step and it came out great!
Those hinges 🫣 !!!
Just as well it’s for your blacksmith club, when you make one for carpentry club maybe set them inside 😎
Hey, I just made a donation box the other week! No plans, ended up overthinking and over building, but it works!
For my part, I have difficulty visualizing and also making sketches by hand.
For my sketchup it has been the solution to carry out my small projects, no matter how simple they are.
Thanks again for another great video and a near perfect example of the k.i.s.s. principle. Keep up the good work.
Agreed, I have used plans most of the time, but... in almost every case I've made modifications. I'm am sure I have built exactly to plan for something, but sketching out your idea and thinking it all through on a notepad is a great way to understand how it is going to fit together.
I have made many furniture builds where making detailed plans in SketchUp and then using these to plan the cuts from the material I had allowed me to maximize the wood I had and not waste any. In my case a good plan is often the best way to go. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.
Outstanding as always, thanks Rex
Confession time: I've bought a few of your plans, but I've never used one as a plan. I buy the plans so I have a written copy of a deep dive into the project you did, but I never have followed a plan directly. As you say, I just wing it. If I've got something tricky, I'll do a few test pieces, such as the joinery on my corner cabinet with overlapping tenons at 45 degree angles: that needed some practice to workout. But mostly, I just watch, store the *process* in the old gray matter and then refer to that as I'm making my project. Keep up the good work Rex.
Don't like using plans most of the time.
But sometimes it is useful to put on paper what we have in mind to figure new things or problems we could not think about. It gives new perspective.
Now I should abide by this more!
Excellent encouragement! Thx.
I'm at the beginning of my jurney, but this is the greatest advice what one can get. Thank You Rex!
Great work, Rex! A "Give me money" box is a fun way to get the job done.
As a beginner in woodworking, I'm still trying to figure out things. But one thing I did figure out is I do not like to make plans, or even look at plans, when I'm in the shop.. This does result in spells of inactivity, and tryign to figure out either what I had in my head, or how to do things. And it's not the best way to get consisency if your idea's change too many times during a build spread out over weeks due to time constraints.. But it's what I like so far.
I have not built many things yet, but enjoying making dusk (cleaning up, not so much).
Thanks for your video's!
Working without plans comes with experience. But once you've got the experience, yeah, you don't need plans. I have a large sketch pad that I draw crude sketches with rough dimensions in. I like the pad because it's a nice way to have a record if I want to build another copy of something.
My first project was the Shut the Box game x5. I used a video from Steve Ramsey as instruction. My next project was a nightstand that also had to cover and hide a 2 foot tall safe. That one was done without plans or drawings. I just measured the safe and started cutting and nailing. The wife loved it and now keeps the first of whatever new thing I build.
I never bought a plan for any of my projects. I made my own plans to understand how pieces go together, the order of operation and such. But that is for me. I design things as a job and I can figure these things out. I've dealt with people that will follow a plan to 0.1mm, which is totally fine if that's their workflow.
I've bought plans and they are a great time saver. Buying plans is like buying time. Which is a bargain and a deal.
I very often use plans for my woodworking. And I have been working with for a lot longer than you have been alive. So, when I want plans, I design them. I don't use other people's plans, because normally they design something they think I will want. Well, I don't want what they think I do, so I draw what I want. Same that is happening wih the van that will wind up as a camper . I will only be using what I design, and that I make, including heat and cooking. Bed, chairs, toilet, whole nine yards, and no one's plans except mine. More fun that way.
I agree with you with one caveat. I rarely use a plan (experienced many years) but I think for beginners plans make a lot of sense.
I´m a Toolmaker when i was young. Every Step , every Cut you think more then twice. So a Plan is importend. I still cary this mindset in my head. But i learnd to make Plans. If you do a sketch on the Workbench it´s a Plan! at last a Plan is ..... think first, then work. Details and Deko comes by if your mind is open.
U hit every point about drawing and talking to yourself and is true everyone do it they don’t show it
You speak like a true man. I respect that!
Thanks!
To me designing something is the best part of the build. Making it in cad/cam software allows you to catch problems early.I don't need plans, just the general idea is enough. I can customize as I go.
I plan on looking 👀 into, and the contemplation of this method. 😮
Rex we need you!!!!!!
Ive literally never made plans, and ive made countless benches, desks, tables, shelves, workbenches, arbors, hell even buildings.
Usually i just design while building, its like seeing into the future timeline that comes true
I don't just any plans... I do it all in my head. I might need measurements for where it is going. But I just make it up as I go. Partly doing this for 56 years and partly because I'm dyslexic.
I'm currently designing a cigar humidor and rather than making a really detailed plan, I just picked up my longest cigar and said "I want the interior to be.. that long" and built around it 😁
Plans are useful for some things. They will get you started with ballpark dimensions. They will show you how some pieces fit together. A person should be able to then come up with their own plans to fit their needs and go from there. Sometimes a photograph is sufficient for a "plan", a starting point.
I agree & have done this here & there BUT…there are times when I don’t trust myself to ‘figure it out’. Example: my/your minimum timber workbench. If I tried doing that myself my head would explode. Man, that was fun to build. Thanks, Rex.
I like your approach for simple projects. It works really well. Purchased plans aren't terribly interesting to me as they solve a problem I don't have. Having been surrounded by Architects the last 25 years of my career, I find myself taking a cue from their playbook and design everything myself. My process is to Design > Build a prototype > Critique it > Fine Tune the Design > Build it again. Woodworking is, at least for me, mostly about turning my ideas into reality through iterative process and executing my ideas well, not the ideas of others. Maybe that makes me pretentious to some, so be it.
I have purchased plans. I have rarely built from the plans. I almost always make changes to the purchased plans. The plans give me an overview and starting point. They also provide a basic materials list.🙂🙂
My plans are usually only in my head.
I think about them quit a lot before I start.
Most of the time there are some key measurements the place the piece will live in dictates.
Then I start... sometimes my approach bits me but it's the way I like my woodworking.
My brother recently got married and I built him and his wife a hanging wine shelf from some curly maple. I got the idea from Pinterest from just a picture there but I made mine with the shelves being inserted into some thru dado joints for strength. The Pinterest picture the whole shelf was made with just butt joints. So I normally get inspiration from pictures and other things then I build it from my own mental layout
This one started upsetting after misreading as 'hanging wife shelf'
Miss read your title as planes instead of plans....I had to here what you had to say here. As for the actual topic, I am all with you. Too many times, I have held off on a project when I didnt need to, because of not knowing exactly what I wanted to do.
The unnerving part when making something new is the doubts over aesthetics, so being a plan gives some comfort. Say you're making a table for the firsst time. The Relative dimensions of all parts are important, and if you're like me you worry you'll spend a lot of time making something that looks a bit wonky, while using up a whole lot of beautiful wood.
With tables, we all have'm so can measure those to see what the boundaries might be. Some for bookcases. But with some other builds it is the fear of effing it up that might drive me to plans.
For fun, I draw the object in perspective to figure out the joints and the measures. Generally, I see and fix some design problems before touching a tool. I need between 3 and 6 drawings to get it ready but, as I only made simple objects, the drawings do not require a long time.
I have never used bought plans in my life.
Simple things I plan in my head and fit as necessary.
At the other extreme I will draw out things full size on thin MDF, and take my key dimensions from that.
In some form or another every thing is planned.
Hey Rex, you should do a video on fume staining. It uses an airtight box, a vessel with some ammonia, and your piece. How it works is the fumes react with the tannins within the wood and it deeply colors the wood
Be careful with the ammonia, it is a pretty bad idea to inhale that stuff!
Well done! I was so sure you would design the donation box to accommodate a cool wrought iron hasp or metal hanger of some sort, that would showcase the metalworking talent in the club😃 Maybe too much planning involved. . .
I was just looking at By Hand & Eye on Lee Valley seconds before Rex mentioned it... this must mean something! 😲
looks like it would easily convert into a nice bird box too
If you move the slot from the top to the front side, and make it rounder - you got a bird box. Might want to use cedar though, so it lasts longer.
I'm a graph paper guy (middle aged, played D&D as a kid). The nice thing about it is if you choose to keep things in scale (say that each square equals 2" etc) you can just measure and translate sizes and angles without having to do any of the more complicated math.
My basic design scribbles look like Rex’s at 1:20. But blessed with a good mind’s eye, I have a CAD screen in my head. I sit quiet and visualise the 3D construction and sub components, rotating them, seeing how they fit and making changes until I have the design correct and maybe with some measurements. Obviously sometimes changes still have to be made on the go, but I’ll get 90% sorted before picking up a tool. Edit: I will admit I take some time and never throw parts together with my fingers crossed.
Improvisation is a great skill. Woodworking jazz.
True enough I don't use plans for my projects, I just kind of wing it as often a set of given dimensions won't work for one reason or another. Something may be the same basic shape as something I saw somewhere, but the process to get there will no doubt be different. I built a box similar to that once, but it got a hole in the front of it and is hanging out in a tree in my backyard. Birds nest in it every year.
A forged nail or two hold the Donation sign makes it perfect...and you can make them too! True 'Old World Colonial' Craftsmanship.
Plans are great if you need to follow instructions, have someone else figure out a cut list etc. Personally, i do pretty much as here. And of course check out makers videos for inspiration and ideas. Great explanation of the process!
No plan survives first contact with the saw 🤕
I build birdhouses without plans or even numerical measurements all the time. Working with pallet wood scraps means that each piece is different.
The closest I usually come to 'plans' is a quick mockup made from cardboard & hot glue.
I met a guy making a donation box "weald and down museum" of "repair shop" fame. He was making a traditional tool booth box from 16th century england. I say this because it was old school carpentry. but also blacksmithing. medival money boxes had 2 iron straps over the box to secure it. look very medival.
I find copying or using plans because I struggle when something goes wrong, 1mm off a piece and it's hard to correct off plan
Great video, you made excellent points. The finished(?) product looks good, too.
Speaking of “finished,” what finish are you going to do/use/apply?
The second stanza from Kira Shine "do you love me.
I never design anything- despite being a designer. I go to bed with the requirement in mind, when I wake up I know how I am going to make it. My subconscious does all the work. Billable work while I sleep- could not get any better...
Plans I draw after I have made it- they are then 100% accurate!
You could do like I did for my current project. First do the all the detailed 3D modelling, then don't make any drawings from it and build everything as you go anyway... That might not be the best use of my time ever, but at least I got to test out my idea and got the basic measurements in the ballpark.
For April Fools day: You should do a video explaining why everyone should use Festool. You know, as door stops, paper weights, boat anchors, etc. just wanted to share before I forget.
Nice
I tend to freestyle plans for the decorative things I do.
I don't think ive ever worked from plans, I just get an idea what i want
What its used for and let it rip
Its not that im good but when i did plans in highschool id come up short. And i made the plans.
To be honest i was going to use hardwoods the teacher talked me into using plywood and it was a very large project.
Sits in my garage now holding oil.
I made that over 40+ years ago.
Better watch that hard r when talking about the knicker 😂 i dont wanna see my boy cancelled 😂😂😘🤙
Somtimes my editor puts the word "nicker" on screen, just to avoid confusion!
I'm not vastly experienced but so far (touch wood) I've never used a plan...more interesting that way...more organic it seems to me.
Lol I agree, I've bought plans and then changed everything. I've never followed a plan through
Plans are helpful to get an idea of what I need to do
I don't normally have plans. At most scribbles on a napkin just so I don't forget the measurements.