ESTP button pushing is a great way to describe it. The “tough to swallow” is absolutely based on the lack of filter and the propensity to challenge social norms.
Enfp's are like this too. Although, estp's focus on physical present problems and enfp's focus on future incoming problems. Either way we're unpopular at dinner parties with strangers.
@@asianbabyboy Yes there are huge differences between. I think they are on opposite ends of the same spectrum. You can see if you look at the cognitive functions for both: enfp:estp Ne:Se Fi :Ti Te :Fe Si :Ni They're built basically the same, accept each cognitive function is opposite of the other other. They're also quite compatible if you subscribe to the idea that extraverted functions want to absorb intraverted functions.
Michael, Andrew Tate is an obvious ESTP who is showing our theocratic traits. I’m sure you’ve seen him by now, what do you think of him? He knows his entertainment value and I think that it can sometimes get in the way of his message, but I genuinely agree with about 80% of what he says. I actually think looking back from the future he will be a fundamental piece in the chess game that is determining our collective future under the communism world governments wish to impose.
@@theultimatedisciple7974 A lot of the rhetoric Andrew Tate uses obviously indicates Te and Ne. His arguments use Te and Si to validate his sense of morality which ESTPs don't appeal to. Joe Rogan and Conor Mcgregor are ESTP.
24:15 ISTP “the monk” Standing on a hilltop doing Se movements, they understand it and also so instinctive about it, can be cold and calculating, can do some things super well.
The FE I see in Hitler is him aiming to keep his community together that was being torn apart by international money. He also saw communism as lacking a non material value system that could not work as well at holding a community together as a shared dream (Ni)
Persona is more form than mask. This realization has allowed me to feel more authentic in public. The objective is not to decieve as with a mask, but to form something desirable from a kaleidescope of possible.
Very good dialogue and critique of subjects that resonate if we put our logic hats on. It is a good exercise that exposes our needs as individuals to not be folks of the fringe. The bit on chess was interesting, and I must insist that the game can be artistic and poetic. Most approach it as logic based and all you need is an abacus internally to succeed and understand. For instance a value is placed on every piece. Yet some of the most magical and beautiful games involve a queen sacrifice. The most valuable piece. Thanks for the video. It was palpable the focus on understanding.
“Initiating kings”. Just finished reading Moore’s “Archetype of Initiation” so as an INFJ I gotta say this perked up my ears. Definitely journeying toward advising and initiating business leaders
INFJ here. I have an ISTP guy I'm dating and he is as observant and committed to Catholicism as I am. xSTPs moral paradigms are not so visible due to being Se dominant and auxiliary and aren't so verbally expressive about it but they are actually drawn to religious systems like xNFJs are. Of course we aren't perfect, no one is but we really do strive towards observing these religious principles.
If you don't watch this and see that Jordan Peterson is an INFJ, I don't know what man you're watching. The cult of personality is this man's Bread and Butter. The divine visions, the gospel-like lectures, the "all truth must pass through or come from me", the obsession with god. It's all there.
@@GhostofJung Interesting analysis. I’m an ENTP myself, so from your side of the fence; Would you say Ti-Fe users are more interested in developing complex principles to evaluate the external world though, but neglect some of the real world events actually happening. I.e “yeah I know your principle is to treat everyone with respect, but that person is clearly being disrespectful because they don’t care about your concerns” Where Te-Fi users are more interested in seeing what’s happening in the world and using a more “moral compass” to judge whether it’s wrong or right, but may miss some of the nuances of a situation in the process? I.e “I know you think they’re being disrespectful, but they are actually just trying to get their point across because they believe it’s important” *I used that example because I see it a lot in discussions/criticisms of people like Peterson or [insert any public figure]
INTJ can't get along with ENFJ because of us lacking? I dare to disagree and I'm very sure of what I have to say. No, it's because ENFJs are allergic to Te expressions & are dominant and conflicting with anyone independent. Fe is not my nemesis function or whatever it was called, what INTJ would he allergic towards. But Te is like this for ENFJs, they are bothered by it very deeply. In their minds - 'You show me Te and want to get any of it back? Fek you, I'm Fe all the way' Somewhat developed INTJ would have no issues resonating with them on an emotional level, as we aren't inferior around our feelings. Normally. Our feeling function is capable of being quite good actually. But for ENFJ this is a dead spot, Ti is on the lowest place and Te is even lower. So while I can understand ENFJs somewhat, similar individuals have no ability to understand me at all. I saw this many times with my relatives, that they are lack the ability to get me in any way and sees me as 'wrong' constantly. Or having the need to push some kind of autistic label on me for focusing on thinking more deeply (because they see our personalities as sick / 'wrong' and feel entitled to 'correct' based in what they feel).
I don't understand how Ti is compatible with defending an extremely detailed and all-encompassing external philosophy that other people create and impose, like conservative Christianity (but could be any other such framework). An ISTP myself, I could never bring myself to defend any complete framework but my own.
@@GhostofJung hmmm... That's an interesting question. There are absolutes, but that doesn't mean I know what they are. People who define God for others, are grifting liars, or worse. Whatever matters, is a process. Some mashup of Objectivism, Existentialism, and 12 Step... and where there's a contradiction I say, "Yup. There sure is," and apply Empiricism as best I can. Atheism makes logical sense, but a Higher Power is part of the human owner's manual. Hence, process over purity. 🙂 Nobody has ever asked me this before, so that's what I could come up with. What I know is that I reject any recipe imposed by someone else, and more so when imposed by force or fear. Ex-Christian ISTP who relates best to Rush's Freewill. Thanks for asking. Like I said, nobody ever has. Have you described this for yourself somewhere?
I would highly doubt his or your type then. Maybe you are dealing with an IxTP as mistyped people are very frequent. I believe this could make a bit of sense as for ENFJs their subconscious is an ISTP (based on one theory). Other than this I could suspected ISTJ (frequently mistyped as well) and especially ENTJ. Just like with his newer video - Te dominants aren't by any means extraverted socially, not usually. They may see themselves as introverted. But with his mind being extraverted you would get along much better, because both would be focused in action etc. I saw a few ENFJ & ENTJ relationships. Te dominants are more fun oriented as well and still more open to social situations, and ENFJs would prefer their high Se focus. Te dominants are goal oriented, with their Te-Se. Just like ENFJs are with their Fe-Se. Their focus is NOT on Te by any means. Actually they don't take it as seriously and are distanced to it, using it more as a tool. So yeah.. Friendship between the two is quite possible. Even being impressed by each other's drive and such. Coming back to this topic. INTJ can't get along with ENFJ because of us lacking? I dare to disagree and I'm very sure of what I have to say. No, it's because ENFJs are allergic to Te expressions & are dominant and conflicting with anyone independent. Fe is not my nemesis function or whatever it was called, what INTJ would he allergic towards. But Te is like this for ENFJs, they are bothered by it very deeply. In their minds - 'You show me Te and want to get any of it back? Fek you, I'm Fe all the way' Somewhat developed INTJ would have no issues resonating with them on an emotional level, as we aren't inferior around our feelings. Normally. Our feeling function is capable of being quite good actually. But for ENFJ this is a dead spot, Ti is on the lowest place and Te is even lower. So while I can understand ENFJs somewhat, similar individuals have no ability to understand me at all. I saw this many times with my relatives, that they are lack the ability to get me in any way and sees me as 'wrong' constantly. Or having the need to push some kind of autistic label on me for focusing on thinking more deeply (because they see our personalities as sick / 'wrong' and feel entitled to 'correct' based in what they feel). With INTJs behavior style the focus is on Te. With Se-Te. Obviously we aren't as goal oriented. Typical thinkers. With all Fe dominants I knew this is literally the most boring approach I could have. When one is focused on thinking highly they are trying to avoid it by default. Especially Te. Not because they are stupid, but because for them it takes a lot of effort and time to use it. And they tend to do it briefly if anything.
I'm speaking from my experience. Me and my friend are studying cognitive functions and our cases together. I'm quite sure I have the INTJ cognitive function stack, and order/usage. Whereas in my close family there is one particular ENFJ individual, I'm also sure about this one. So when they said that INTJ not getting them is the issue I find it just silly. Looking at our functions order - Should a feeling tertiary have a bigger issue with getting some feeling dominant? Or maybe feeling dominant & thinking inferior is far more predisposed to be clueless around someone who is thinking auxiliary and focused in it? INFJs are very deep with their Fe expressions and I have no issues with them. My favorite types by far. And why can we resonate together? Not just because orur Ni is first, but also because for me feeling is well developed and for them Ti is not inferior either. This is the answer.
As an INFJ with an INTJ best friend, this was very fascinating
ESTP button pushing is a great way to describe it. The “tough to swallow” is absolutely based on the lack of filter and the propensity to challenge social norms.
Enfp's are like this too. Although, estp's focus on physical present problems and enfp's focus on future incoming problems. Either way we're unpopular at dinner parties with strangers.
@@asianbabyboy Yes there are huge differences between. I think they are on opposite ends of the same spectrum. You can see if you look at the cognitive functions for both:
enfp:estp
Ne:Se
Fi :Ti
Te :Fe
Si :Ni
They're built basically the same, accept each cognitive function is opposite of the other other. They're also quite compatible if you subscribe to the idea that extraverted functions want to absorb intraverted functions.
Always a pleasure, Joe!
YES super fun!
Michael, Andrew Tate is an obvious ESTP who is showing our theocratic traits. I’m sure you’ve seen him by now, what do you think of him? He knows his entertainment value and I think that it can sometimes get in the way of his message, but I genuinely agree with about 80% of what he says. I actually think looking back from the future he will be a fundamental piece in the chess game that is determining our collective future under the communism world governments wish to impose.
@@theultimatedisciple7974 He is an ESTJ.
@@ISTP8w9 You are wrong.
@@theultimatedisciple7974 A lot of the rhetoric Andrew Tate uses obviously indicates Te and Ne. His arguments use Te and Si to validate his sense of morality which ESTPs don't appeal to. Joe Rogan and Conor Mcgregor are ESTP.
ENFJ dystopia- Handmaid’s Tale? That was what first sprung to mind
24:15 ISTP “the monk”
Standing on a hilltop doing Se movements, they understand it and also so instinctive about it, can be cold and calculating, can do some things super well.
The FE I see in Hitler is him aiming to keep his community together that was being torn apart by international money. He also saw communism as lacking a non material value system that could not work as well at holding a community together as a shared dream (Ni)
Great insight! Thanks for this my friend
Persona is more form than mask. This realization has allowed me to feel more authentic in public. The objective is not to decieve as with a mask, but to form something desirable from a kaleidescope of possible.
Very good dialogue and critique of subjects that resonate if we put our logic hats on. It is a good exercise that exposes our needs as individuals to not be folks of the fringe. The bit on chess was interesting, and I must insist that the game can be artistic and poetic. Most approach it as logic based and all you need is an abacus internally to succeed and understand. For instance a value is placed on every piece. Yet some of the most magical and beautiful games involve a queen sacrifice. The most valuable piece.
Thanks for the video. It was palpable the focus on understanding.
“Initiating kings”. Just finished reading Moore’s “Archetype of Initiation” so as an INFJ I gotta say this perked up my ears. Definitely journeying toward advising and initiating business leaders
INFJ here. I have an ISTP guy I'm dating and he is as observant and committed to Catholicism as I am. xSTPs moral paradigms are not so visible due to being Se dominant and auxiliary and aren't so verbally expressive about it but they are actually drawn to religious systems like xNFJs are. Of course we aren't perfect, no one is but we really do strive towards observing these religious principles.
very interesting! very fun combo infj + istp
If you don't watch this and see that Jordan Peterson is an INFJ, I don't know what man you're watching.
The cult of personality is this man's Bread and Butter.
The divine visions, the gospel-like lectures, the "all truth must pass through or come from me", the obsession with god. It's all there.
yes indeed! I don't think he ever gives us any Te advice, he's much better at explaining the universe with Ti principles
@@GhostofJung Interesting analysis.
I’m an ENTP myself, so from your side of the fence; Would you say Ti-Fe users are more interested in developing complex principles to evaluate the external world though, but neglect some of the real world events actually happening.
I.e “yeah I know your principle is to treat everyone with respect, but that person is clearly being disrespectful because they don’t care about your concerns”
Where Te-Fi users are more interested in seeing what’s happening in the world and using a more “moral compass” to judge whether it’s wrong or right, but may miss some of the nuances of a situation in the process?
I.e “I know you think they’re being disrespectful, but they are actually just trying to get their point across because they believe it’s important”
*I used that example because I see it a lot in discussions/criticisms of people like Peterson or [insert any public figure]
Yes! Even before watching this video I knew JP was a big INFJ. The moment he talked about archetypes I knew that was it
I always thought he was an INTP. CS Joseph, speaks on this
INTJ can't get along with ENFJ because of us lacking?
I dare to disagree and I'm very sure of what I have to say.
No, it's because ENFJs are allergic to Te expressions & are dominant and conflicting with anyone independent.
Fe is not my nemesis function or whatever it was called, what INTJ would he allergic towards. But Te is like this for ENFJs, they are bothered by it very deeply. In their minds - 'You show me Te and want to get any of it back? Fek you, I'm Fe all the way'
Somewhat developed INTJ would have no issues resonating with them on an emotional level, as we aren't inferior around our feelings. Normally. Our feeling function is capable of being quite good actually.
But for ENFJ this is a dead spot, Ti is on the lowest place and Te is even lower. So while I can understand ENFJs somewhat, similar individuals have no ability to understand me at all. I saw this many times with my relatives, that they are lack the ability to get me in any way and sees me as 'wrong' constantly. Or having the need to push some kind of autistic label on me for focusing on thinking more deeply (because they see our personalities as sick / 'wrong' and feel entitled to 'correct' based in what they feel).
Hierophant for infj.. interesting
Yep hadn't heard of that one either
Interesting chat!
Thank you!!
I don't understand how Ti is compatible with defending an extremely detailed and all-encompassing external philosophy that other people create and impose, like conservative Christianity (but could be any other such framework).
An ISTP myself, I could never bring myself to defend any complete framework but my own.
Great point. Do you have a philosophy you live by?
@@GhostofJung hmmm...
That's an interesting question.
There are absolutes, but that doesn't mean I know what they are.
People who define God for others, are grifting liars, or worse.
Whatever matters, is a process.
Some mashup of Objectivism, Existentialism, and 12 Step... and where there's a contradiction I say, "Yup. There sure is," and apply Empiricism as best I can.
Atheism makes logical sense, but a Higher Power is part of the human owner's manual. Hence, process over purity. 🙂
Nobody has ever asked me this before, so that's what I could come up with.
What I know is that I reject any recipe imposed by someone else, and more so when imposed by force or fear.
Ex-Christian ISTP who relates best to Rush's Freewill.
Thanks for asking. Like I said, nobody ever has.
Have you described this for yourself somewhere?
I know another ISTP and he is also quite observant of Catholicism as I am (INFJ). It was refreshing to find someone as theocratic as me.
Piercian. 😂
we must make this a common phrase
Sorry to hear you don’t get ENFJ 🥹.
On my side, one of my bestie is INTJ, so …😁it’s possible 😅
Lmao mysterious ENFJ I can't figure you out
@@GhostofJung 😇🙃ye we are enigmas👀😂😂
I would highly doubt his or your type then. Maybe you are dealing with an IxTP as mistyped people are very frequent. I believe this could make a bit of sense as for ENFJs their subconscious is an ISTP (based on one theory). Other than this I could suspected ISTJ (frequently mistyped as well) and especially ENTJ. Just like with his newer video - Te dominants aren't by any means extraverted socially, not usually. They may see themselves as introverted. But with his mind being extraverted you would get along much better, because both would be focused in action etc. I saw a few ENFJ & ENTJ relationships. Te dominants are more fun oriented as well and still more open to social situations, and ENFJs would prefer their high Se focus.
Te dominants are goal oriented, with their Te-Se. Just like ENFJs are with their Fe-Se. Their focus is NOT on Te by any means. Actually they don't take it as seriously and are distanced to it, using it more as a tool. So yeah.. Friendship between the two is quite possible. Even being impressed by each other's drive and such.
Coming back to this topic. INTJ can't get along with ENFJ because of us lacking?
I dare to disagree and I'm very sure of what I have to say.
No, it's because ENFJs are allergic to Te expressions & are dominant and conflicting with anyone independent.
Fe is not my nemesis function or whatever it was called, what INTJ would he allergic towards. But Te is like this for ENFJs, they are bothered by it very deeply. In their minds - 'You show me Te and want to get any of it back? Fek you, I'm Fe all the way'
Somewhat developed INTJ would have no issues resonating with them on an emotional level, as we aren't inferior around our feelings. Normally. Our feeling function is capable of being quite good actually.
But for ENFJ this is a dead spot, Ti is on the lowest place and Te is even lower. So while I can understand ENFJs somewhat, similar individuals have no ability to understand me at all. I saw this many times with my relatives, that they are lack the ability to get me in any way and sees me as 'wrong' constantly. Or having the need to push some kind of autistic label on me for focusing on thinking more deeply (because they see our personalities as sick / 'wrong' and feel entitled to 'correct' based in what they feel).
With INTJs behavior style the focus is on Te. With Se-Te. Obviously we aren't as goal oriented. Typical thinkers. With all Fe dominants I knew this is literally the most boring approach I could have. When one is focused on thinking highly they are trying to avoid it by default. Especially Te. Not because they are stupid, but because for them it takes a lot of effort and time to use it. And they tend to do it briefly if anything.
I'm speaking from my experience.
Me and my friend are studying cognitive functions and our cases together. I'm quite sure I have the INTJ cognitive function stack, and order/usage. Whereas in my close family there is one particular ENFJ individual, I'm also sure about this one. So when they said that INTJ not getting them is the issue I find it just silly. Looking at our functions order - Should a feeling tertiary have a bigger issue with getting some feeling dominant? Or maybe feeling dominant & thinking inferior is far more predisposed to be clueless around someone who is thinking auxiliary and focused in it?
INFJs are very deep with their Fe expressions and I have no issues with them. My favorite types by far. And why can we resonate together? Not just because orur Ni is first, but also because for me feeling is well developed and for them Ti is not inferior either. This is the answer.